What determines that a man is one of the top 20% (that the women usually are after) and how to get there?

[Anonymous]

[ManOnFire]

When we keep reinforcing these ideas that women are looking for a 20% (or 10%, I've heard different numbers), we keep encouraging women to believe they're valuable enough to have these "successful" men and to keep pursuing superficial types of men.

I want to take a moment to explain here what real "high value men are": they are usually not the very wealthy, successful, high status men these women put on a pedestal. True men of value are usually the ones who are not the sexiest or who have the most glamorous career. True men of value have good hearts and they respect and regard everybody.

I know what you're going to say: "And that's the problem, women don't want those good men." And you might be right, but you wouldn't want those kinds of women in return either. They are shallow with no real idea of what a good partner is, and this probably is a lot of women, but there are still good ones out there who will appreciate these true men of value. Where are they? I don't know. But I do know they exist, and you'll most likely meet one when you least expect it.

[Asker]

Aces! Sometimes it's not us. It's them. Right on.

[ManOnFire]

I think very often that it IS them and not us.

[mobiusforniner]

The responses on here are so typical of the average GAGer. Its not my fault! Its not fair! Its too much work! I dont have genetics/money/whatever. Listen to that whiner baby shit and you wonder why women dont find you attractive...

A man isn't a failure until he blames someone else.

[Asker]

Most helpful opinion right here.

[grega239]

Weeell, when a woman you're interested in chooses an spoiled aggressive drunk over you, its kinda defeating.

[mobiusforniner]

@grega239 sounds like your got a bad taste in females...

[Creampiekarl420]

Thats bullshit and you know it

[grega239]

Maybe, who cares. im kinda done. im getting a bike

[True_Sage]

You're straw manning the other positions to feel sekf-righteous which is weak behavior for a man.

Everyone has personal responsibility, and that doesn't mean you have to refuse to examine outside factors. Men and women fid evolve differently under different sexual selection pressures.

Women do highly value looks and wealth. That's what you see when you look at data rather than posture over strawman.

Men have much less biased attractiveness ratings that follow a normal distribution. Women show a clear negative skew where average is actually divided at the top 20% rather than the middle. Messaging habits also show this where 80% of women message the top 20% sexual market value Men. It's just fact.

Personal responsibility comes from making that bank and taking care of your body. Anything else is delusional woke ass kissing that will send you to failure or divorce.

[True_Sage]

So in short, you are very wrong.

"It's not my fault"? Oh it would be. Adapt or fail.

"It's not fair" true. It's true. But adapt or fail. Crying won't change biology.

Most you are aggressing on don't say "i don't have this the end". The answer is "I don't have this so I better get it"

We're realists and you're the dataless whiner.

[Anonymous]

The majority of women grew up without a Father. So what they’re basically looking for in a man is a FATHER.
I came from a religious full family with mom and dad in the picture. It was Dysfunctional, but a family nonetheless.

I personally can’t be with someone too tall because I feel crowded and annoyed.
Id find me a guy who’s a bit taller than me or taller than me overall. The money doesn’t matter when I’m supposed to be responsible for my own life. I need to get my 💩 together before I even think of a relationship.

When looking for a man a woman should be seeking a companion not a Father!

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Stop focusing on dating site statistics and just focus on holding a conversation without feeling like you aren't good enough or that you are owed something. That's a good start.

[maverick2022]

I tried that. After she finished telling me about her ex screwing her over and all her problems, she decided she didn't feel like talking anymore. Wtf chick? I'm not a dumpster for your unpleasant thoughts. I deserve more respect than that.

[RandomGuy1030]

@maverick2022 sigma rule#1: never listen to their stream of emotion

[mobiusforniner]

@maverick2022 if thats the attitude you have when a woman is telling you about her problems, then boy you ain't ready for a relationship... much less marriage.

[maverick2022]

Yeah no kidding. Never again. Of course then I'm insensitive. The key with women is that you can never win with them. They evolved to annoy the crap out of men until he does what she wants. This type of instinct is incompatible with the modern world, which is why first world people are slowly becoming extinct.

[maverick2022]

@mobiusforniner Yeah if that's what a relationship and marriage is about, no thanks.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Yeah thats exactly what part of it is about. Having someone that you love so much that you want to be able to come home and have that person to vent to anytime you need it and be there when they need to vent. It's a mental and emotional sanctuary.

If you are insensitive then get used to being alone.

[maverick2022]

I'm used to it. Girls made me that way.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Your lack of responsibility for your own actions made you that way. We are not responsible for ensuring your happiness unless you give us a reason to and with that attitude we will never want to.

[maverick2022]

Yes of course. Women never doing anything wrong ever. I'm fully aware.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Clearly not what I said, but you can't blame women for your poor attitude. You control your own actions

[maverick2022]

Which action are you referring to exactly? Oh that's right, I'm automatically assumed to be in the wrong because I'm a male. Here's a good one, why don't women take responsibility for their actions when they choose a shitty partner? Instead they wanna shit on every other guy.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Why do you keep trying to move the goalposts?

This was about your inability to be a good listener for your partner. You would be the shitty partner a woman selected in that scenario. You would be the reason women complain about all men.

That doesn't mean those women would be right to do it, but using your scenario thats the outcome.

Fix your own problems and you'll avoid the problem women you seek to avoid.

[maverick2022]

Of course you say that. I'm tired of being a good listener for women that want to use me as an emotion dumpster. I can't imagine many things more dehumanizing.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Then don't. Just stop blaming women for your own decisions to listen or not listen. That's on you to decide and women will find someone who will listen.

[maverick2022]

That's besides the point. They expect me to listen regardless. It has to do with their basic narcissistic behavior. If I don't listen, I'm a bad person. If I do listen, I still might be a bad person. It's never the case that the woman could be a bad person for stealing my life force because she doesn't know what she wants or because she thinks she knows what she wants but changes her mind completely within a moment.

[cloud9vortex1234]

Get a therapists.

[maverick2022]

25% of women nowdays need therapists. Any guy should do...

[cloud9vortex1234]

@maverick2022 They charge $ for their time.

[Cathy7734]

As far as women or men, talking the other person's right ear off and telling that person all the drama that is happening in their life, well, it seems to me those people are looking for a "sounding board." They just want to hear themselves (men and women) bitch and complain. I don't think it's a good idea to use another person as a therapist.

[cloud9vortex1234]

@Cathy7734 Exactly! Many women naturally do this. I got a life. I don't have time for this. Find a therapist or an Online Support Group.

[shanom]

So... he should ignore the reality? What's the point of that, might as well accept how things are. It's not that he "feels" he's not good enough, that's how women treat men that don't fall in the top 20. I agree with you on the conversation point to a degree, he shouldn't expect anything from women, women only care/give to the top 20

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Yikes, the incel crowd is out in force today. Count me out, I am done here. It won't matter what I say, you have all made up your minds.

[shanom]

What did you expect answering this question. Nothing you say is going to magically change female nature lol

[mobiusforniner]

Its not worth it. You know what they say, arguing with anime gamer virgins is like arguing on an internet forum. Even if you win, you're still a loser... oh wait...😄

[shanom]

Lol, here comes the white knight to save a defenseless woman lol

[Ez-Bri-Z]

It's not women that are the problem here. It's men who expect they are owed something or use dating site statistics as if they were the holy gospel to explain why they can't get laid.

[shanom]

It is women that are the problem, you all definitely give it up to the top 20 without making them feel guilty for wanting it

[mobiusforniner]

@shanom hey shanom, sure im a white knight... and i do get laid, lol

[shanom]

Dating site statistics are holy gospel, they show the true nature of the dating game

[shanom]

Lol, good for you. You're white close to the top 20, so if course you'll defend women, you have always had good interactions with them. Or you're a sucker with no self respect that gets some pity sex now and then lol

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I think mobius has it right here about the reasoning with these guys. Shame.. I actually really like games and some anime too. Kinda ruins it for me lol

[shanom]

Of course you agree, you want to ignore how women really are. No one wants to admit how hypergamous and shallow women are. Women must always be the victim in every situation

[Ez-Bri-Z]

@shanom Ok there *patpat* debate is over. You win. You get to be the most miserable gender if it makes you feel better. It's all our fault you can't get sex and uh every dating site stat is the holy gospel and your mom bakes the best cookies on the block.

That about cover everything so we can end this?

[mobiusforniner]

@shanom dude, I dont even have to try... with guys like you around, I am in the top 0.00001%. So keep losing away buddy!

[shanom]

Avoiding women isn't a loss lol, some of these guys need to realize their place and accept it. Whatever works for you, good on you. No one has to be miserable, you accept how the world is, and find where you fit in. But that doesn't mean you pretend things are what they are. It's not about feeling better, it's about being realistic. But yeah, my mom used to be a good baker lol

[shanom]

Any advice he gets is pretty useless unless he has the looks. He can work on everything else, like money, social status, etc. It's that simple

[Ez-Bri-Z]

You know, ironically I like no bake cookies best, but the true sign I am just evil? I unironically love oatmeal raisin cookies.

[cloud9vortex1234]

Nobody is entitled to anybody.

[shanom]

No one is entitled to anyone, but at the same time, why is it wrong that men under the top 20 wanting a romantic relationship is a problem?

[cloud9vortex1234]

You do look like that woman on a Youtube Video who has been clinically diagnosed as a psychopath.

[shanom]

Oatmeal raisin cookies are great when made the right way

[cloud9vortex1234]

@shanom I didn't say it was wrong and I don't believe everything I hear.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Who me? Aww, that would make me sort of internet famous! Sweet

[RandomGuy1030]

Whats funny... women, through years of evolution, instinctively know, men who listen to them are INEFFECTIVE losers. Yes they are sensitive and nice... but they aren't alpha

[RandomGuy1030]

"Alpha/beta doesn't exist" ok so effective/ineffective men dont exist then

[mobiusforniner]

@RandomGuy1030 whats funny is thats not entirely true. If your wife or girlfriend has a guy "friend" she always turned to for emotional support because she isn't getting it from you, 9 outta 10 chances she's jumping on him...

[mobiusforniner]

Having a woman love you and want you is more than just being the confident alpha. Its being everything... he is also a good listener, sensitive and caring while taking lead and knowing what he wants in his life. How can he be a father to her children if he doesn't have the requisite patience, tact or candor?

[maverick2022]

@mobiusforniner "9 outta 10 chances she's jumping on him" lolol I can personally attest this to be true. 👀

[RandomGuy1030]

@mobiusforniner 9/10 times she's jumping on him anyway you're just naive enough to accept responsibility for their lust

[RandomGuy1030]

See how it works. You cheat and it's because you have no brain, she cheats and it's because you have no brain.

[RandomGuy1030]

That play works by teasing your need to control. Let go, you can't control anyone, EVERYONE is responsible for what THEY do

[Cathy7734]

I've read that men should stop blaming women for not getting laid. I always thought it was easy for men to get laid. All you have to do is go to an Escort service and pick out a woman. You can have a conversation with her and get laid.

[shanom]

Men having to pay for sex, and women not having to, proves the point

[Cathy7734]

@shanom
If a woman just want sex there is a price for her to pay, although it isn't monetary. She goes to a night club and guys approach her for sex. She doesn't know what she is getting herself into. What if he is a murderer? A rapist? What if he stalks her? It seems to me it's safer for a man to go to a reputable Escort service.

[shanom]

That's a risk, not a price. There is a risk with using escort services, such as std, robbery, and jail.

[shanom]

Women don't have to go to a nightclub, they can easily choose any guy they know in their friend group

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Technically guys can try that too if they just need sex and if there are really 80 % of guys being passed over, maybe they should start pairing off and just helping a brother out.

[RandomGuy1030]

And be gay? There is absolutely nothing more disgusting!!!

[maverick2022]

Of course the lesbian says that. Also why don't lesbians just stick to other lesbians? Why they always want a bisexual girl? by the way nobody needs sex, they just want it because it fulfills a physical and psychological need. A psychological need that society fulfills for women outside of sex, while men are basically forgotten.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Ok the first half makes no sense.

For the second half: If nobody needs it then perhaps you all could stop whining about not getting it. Seriously this post is like 60 posts deep. Just let it go.

[maverick2022]

That was the point in the first place. I am letting it go and so are other guys, that's why birth rates are sinking like a tank in first world countries. Women actually have more of a psychological need for children than men do. The point that others were making is that women go for a minority of guys then complain about them as a majority. It's annoying. I know no woman will ever accept her own hypocrisy so I might as well talk to a brick wall.

[Kaamraj]

1. Aesthetics which includes genetics which you have no control over eg. height, male pattern baldness, any physical deformity, etc. so don't worry over it. However, it also includes things that you can control, including fitness. Exercise and eat right, maintain discipline, get your 8hrs of sleep, and have plenty of water.

2. Finances - Dont be reckless in your spending. Dont purchase anything unless you can easily afford two of them. Have savings and investments. Imagine yourself getting into an accident or illness, do you have your finances to last for six months?

3. Reputation/ Network - Are you useful to other men, is there a niche activity or job in your city or town that you are the best at? People must seek you out for that, when you speak, other men must listen, you must be respected, that is more important than being loved. If a lady you were interested in lost her passport, do you know the right people that can get a duplicate made in half the time it usually takes?- Just an example.

4. Masculinity - Is your mind under your control? Are you mentally disciplined, are you able to stand upto women, tell them no. Or whenever an attractive woman comes in your life, do you bend over backwards for her? - Nothing in life is absolute, everything is perceived. A high value man acts like he's high value, that is how other know him to be on face value. So remember put yourself first, family second, friends third, and women last.

[Moose304]

This is a somewhat difficult question to answer. One thing I have discovered is the age of the female is important. A while back I got bored sitting at home so I grabbed my iPad and headed out to a local sports bar and had an early dinner and a few drinks as I went over a bid I was close to submitting. I was so involved in that project I lost touch with what was going on beside me. The bartender walked over to my table and said a lady at the bar wanted to know if she could join me. Of course, I said OK and put my iPad down for a few minutes. This absolutely stunning female in her 40s walked over and sit down. I have a personal policy I don't buy women drinks! That day was no exception. We had a nice conversation though and about 45 minutes I left and went home. I later learned this lady was just divorced and was back on the dating market. I then was told she was critical of my demeanor around her. However, I was told she was attracted to me! To this day she has not been in that bar when I was there. The female's age does matter greatly! If this offends I am sorry, but it is a fact!

[Rangers]

The reality is that most women like the guys who act strong but are really incredibly weak and fragile on the inside. They often call themselves alphas and other people betas, which ironically would cause them to fall into that category since one of the habits of a weak man is someone who belittles others while having a narcissistic view of one's self.

Most girls aren't worth being with as they just want to stir the pot and take your stuff before moving on to the next guy and doing the same, knowing that these so called "alphas" have plenty of stuff to spare and are very easy to start drama with.

To paint a proper picture, you'll have to build yourself up and mature to where the thoughts of a fragile person who's trying to belittle you has no impact on you and you don't insult them back because their opinion is unimportant to you as you know who you are.

After that, you'll have to dive into a world made of garbage and dig until you find a diamond, once you do, be yourself and hope you're compatible, if you are, she's your spouse now. If not, keep digging. It took me several years to find my girlfriend but it's well worth it

[DaySpring]

Many people will probably dislike your comment but, the more I think back on the past the more it gives evidence to your accuracy. I do not have a well developed enough opinion to agree or disagree with your 2nd paragraph though. Most people are average so, the first 6 words (of the 2nd P) I find to be 200% true for both men and women.

[Squaresquirrel]

You do realize that these concepts are coming from men who made a fortune telling men what they want to hear instead of really helping.
They have all these videos on YouTube, for the likes
The biggest problem is that insecure men will believe it that their only problem is that women are picky and that's why they can't get laid
Why don't you listen Jordan Peterson? He says how it is, if women don't like you, you might need to accept that you are not attractive enough.
But I'm sure you will disagree, it's easier.
Like a fat woman will say men are fatphobic, she will not accept that maybe she's not attractive. It's easier

[Cathy7734]

It seems to me that those men who have Youtube vides, like Better Bachelor, are talking about the top 20% of women. The top 20% of women look in the mirror and they know how attractive and pretty they are. So they say, "I'm an attractive woman and I deserve an attractive man." The trouble is that the attractive men on Tinder, POF, etc., are playing the field. They are banging as many women as they can. So the women blame men for their failure. I watch those women on TikTok.

[maverick2022]

Yes those dating coaches have messed up so much about the world. Many people lack enough self-awareness to know what they're doing wrong and women will often expect men to read their minds. Also it is true that women are pickier. There was a study on Tinder that found a majority of the women were sleeping with a minority of the men. Interpret that how you want, I don't use Tinder, but I looked at it earlier and it's very obviously a hookup app. Once a girl becomes tainted by bad experiences, she is likely to be less trusting of men and harder to love, which is the tragedy of the situation. There most likely was a guy that would have treated her right that she didn't give the time of day to. Such is life.

[shanom]

Jordan Peterson is a good person to go with. But then you contradict yourself. You say men on YouTube are wrong by saying women are picky, but Peterson is right because a guy isn't attractive enough, that's basically the same thing

[Vegasrunner]

@squaresquirrel The point of these concepts is to help men understand that by adding value to themselves forces women to come to them. One of the biggest advantages of being a man is that you dont have to be attractive to get a hot women. If you understand how to create value in yourself you won't need to do anything to attract women.

[shanom]

Lol, you do have to be attractive as a man, unless you only want women that use you for resources and sleep with attractive men on the side

[Vegasrunner]

@shanom No that's false. Technically "attractiveness" is subjective so what you and I think is attractive someone else sees as hideous. A women's value is in her beauty a mans value is in his resources. I've worked w/ tons of actors, entertainers, athletes here in Vegas that you probably wouldn't consider "attractive" but because of their status they have women all over them. How old are you?

[shanom]

You are confusing sexual attraction and value, yeah a woman might take an ugly guy with status for a long term "settle down" type relationship, but she will always stray. Even if you have women all over you that's not my point, women are attracted to status, but they are also attracted to a tall guy with a six pack and a big dick

[shanom]

Women's sense of physical attraction isn't as varied as men. Men love tall, short. Women love tall. Men love thick, thin, small boobs, big boobs. Women like toned and a big dick

[Vegasrunner]

@shanom Not as much as status. I noticed you never answered the question of how old are you.

[shanom]

No need to answer that, and the whole status thing is a great equalizer, but a woman will still want a guy that's physically attractive every now and then

[Squaresquirrel]

I wish people wouldn't base their findings on Tinder and other apps. Those men who are in the 80% on Tinder , get a woman offline. Not to mention that majority of the women are not on Tinder to actually date. It's a great ego boost, you can pick whoever you want, but most of those matches does not translate to actual dates.
I personally don't do online dating, definitely no tinder as I know those guys will not want me, they want to hook up in the laziest way possible.
And this is my personal opinion but those guys who go on Tinder and whine about not getting matches and blah blah are indeed losers and they also only want the hottest women. How many times could I see when guys (5-6) talked about wanting a girl who is at least an 8 then boohoo "no women want them"
Double standards!

[Cathy7734]

@squaresquirrel
When I go to the mall, the park, the movies, etc., I notice that there are a lot of couples and it's rare that I see a "hot" man or woman. Everyone I see is just average looking. It seems to me if a person truly wants a relationship that person will get into one. Although looks, age and weight are important, it's just not as important as being in a relationship.

[Vegasrunner]

@shanom There's definitely a reason to answer that depending on your age you may be unable to truly understand this concept. there's a reason why 50+ year old men can bang 20 something women and it ain't because of their looks.

[shanom]

I understand why they can bang those girls, it's not rocket science. I already explained that I know women are attracted to status and money. That doesn't change my point

[HawkPerception]

My best friend just so happens to be the opposite of me in most categories and he is really good with girls. He doesn't even look for girls. They reach out to him most of the time. I've walked with him and he'd start a conversation with random people and end up with a girl's number because they offered it to him. Then he'd show me the messages he'd receive from them. So to name his traits...

He's super confident the smoothest talker
He's financially successful
He's an "alpha male" for people that believe in the term. Literally if you read the definition of alpha, he fits the description spot on
He's really all about the traditional ways where the man provides and the woman puts stuff on the table in different ways

I can say he's definitely in the top 20%, and even if I had his financial success, I wouldn't be as successful as him with girls lol.

[Asker]

"alpha males" do not exist. And if they do, then they're assholes. Seen no exception.
I think you underestimate the power of financial success, which is the thing that attracts these girls. At least from the sounds of it. If a broke guy is super confident and a smooth talker, then it would be a different story. Now add being unattractive to this mixture and you get sexual harassment threats. Pretty privilege is a thing.

[HawkPerception]

Every time I hear that nonsense of "alpha male doesn't exist" I cringe a little. Just reminds me of this whole generation going to trash with body positivity, radical feminism and lgbt promotion. The girls that he got in front of me, he made no mention of money. It was all in the way he talked and the confidence that he exudes.

Contrary to your belief, people can be categorized by traits. It's not something new.

[rocksongwriter]

Question Asker, you say that alpha males do not exist yet you claim that women go after the top 20% of men. Aren't these top 20% of men alpha males? If not, what is the difference between alpha males and these top 20%?

[Asker]

Top 20% =/= "alpha males" whatever the F that means. They simply do not exist. It's a silly social construct based on some weird guys fantasies and does not reflect the real world in any way.
Top 20% means that usually roughly 20% of men are wanted by most women. Something these top 20% of men have or do, that the remaining 80% (that the women don't want) don't.

[HawkPerception]

Hey then I guess labelling and categorizing people should just cease to exist. I guess goths, hippies, sociopaths, MBTI personality types, ADHD, OCD just don't exist. They're all just social constructs.

You're asking what determines a man is in the top 20%, but you're only looking for people to agree with you that financial success is what matters.

[rocksongwriter]

I guess what I was getting at is how do you define "alpha male"?

[Asker]

Totally not what I said.
What I said is that this example of a guy could attract girls easily with money if he flaunted with it. It's not hard to do. Every idiot with plenty of money can do that. Take away the money and it's a different story.

[CaptainOverthink]

Here is an article containing several studies and links out of which the last link goes to the 80/20 statistical study.

https://usustatesman. com/economics-of-dating-2-the-brutal-reality-of-dating-apps/

It should be said that this is a documented behavior of Tinder, a dating-app. Not irl.
It's not the same. But if you only use dating apps..

In reality you can prove yor worth by mere character and confidence.
I've witnessed a fat asshole friend of mine go home with slender gorgeous girls..

Apps and online activities skew the view of the world and if you never go outside to meet people but stay on apps then you'll most likely need to be top 20%. Or have a hell of a good texting charisma, pace and meta-game.

[crossdressingrihno]

Sometimes your dealt a bad hand
I'm broke, short, pretty awkward sometimes and Im definitely not good looking

Yet I can still get an attractive partner when I want to (I got bored of relationships though and am happily socializing with friends) I also almost never get rejected

Fact is it's about confidence and how you carry yourself
Real confidence is earned and for some it takes a lot of work
If you really want a woman to want you then you first give them something to want

[RealMarek]

The statistics of women pursuing the top 20% come from dating apps. The principle of female selectivity applies, but the reality is not so stark as hook-up sites would suggest. There is still a large minority that expects monogamy in relationships which, especially in communities where monogamy is expected, means women will pursue more than 20% of men. Also, in in-person interaction, personality and interpersonal chemistry factor into the picture as well as appearances, so the disparity isn’t so great there either.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

If you want to be in the top 20th percentile of any group of people, you've got to do the things that the sub-80th percentile can't or won't do. In other words, to be considered exceptional, you have to BE exceptional. You can't fake it. That said, I think you should be less concerned about comparing yourself to others, and more concerned with pursuing the purpose you were put on this Earth to fulfil, whatever that may be. A man on a mission will always be attractive to at least a certain subset of women, whereas a man with no overarching goal tends to spin his wheels, compare himself tp others, and as a result gives off "beta vibes" that turn women off unanimously.

[Anonymous]

You need to work on your appearance, go to great lengths, get a nice hair cut and work out.
Modern girls are as a lot very judgmental and like modern men misinformed about demographics and their chances. This fact is illustrated by the way they rate men on dating sides as 80% below advantage.

In other word most single women think 50% of the male population is better than 80% of the actual men. Men likely hold similar miss-conceptions, both due to the same media source, but as men will generally bang anyone it takes little effort for a woman to get her foot in his door long enough to develop a relationship.

So you need to look at least for a while like that top 20%, or as close as you can get.

[True_Sage]

That or have money. But yes. 80% women want top 20% men. If you can't get muscles or money, then date fat single moms.

[Chthou95]

Don't listen to any blue pillers telling that bullshit of just be a nice person and caring and eventually a girl will love you for who you are. Throw that garbage out the window. You have to build success to get there. Go to gym, work your ass off & get in shape. Work on your social skills because as a man, you'll be leading the conversation and need to have social skills to keep thins moving. Focus on your career & find a good paying job. Save up money and with time, you'll eventually be financially stable to attract women. This is how things actually work

[True_Sage]

Muscles or money. That's it. Simple

[DaySpring]

100% the world runs on value and don't we ever blanking forget it. However, virtuous traits are valued but not to the degree that they will make up for being out of shape and aimless in life.

[Chthou95]

Personality and confidence alone don't mean jack shit. As men we do have to have something physically attractive about us that will affect women

[True_Sage]

Confidence can be enough if you get them a bit drunk to dull their thoughts.

[Chthou95]

Shouldn't have to get a woman drunk to like you

[True_Sage]

Who said have to? It just makes things easier. Everyone always tries to black/white this stuff. It's real boring.

[DaySpring]

Build up your value. The world runs on value. Find out the things most people value and keep acquiring or automatizing those things. It is that simple. by the way a keen awareness is quite the asset in doing this. Value is literally anything people value. Politeness and courtesy is value. Money is value. A beautiful body is value. You get my point.

[JamesDiaz11]

The easiest metric is money. Make over $100k, or be in the top 5% of guys she sees. They want someone worth bragging about. Sure, bring tall or good looking is nice, but if she can’t brag about what you do to her friends you’ll only be a guy she settles for.

[True_Sage]

They are happy to brag about looks. If you're in top 20% of looks that is enough. They aren't too deep thinkers. They're women.

[JamesDiaz11]

Don’t underestimate their intelligence; they’re fickle creatures, but they know looks isn’t top priority. They need to be supported financially, first and foremost

[True_Sage]

I'm not sure if thought or intelligence as what drives then towards money and status. Half of it seems a biological instinct they can't control.

If they were so intelligent my uni wouldn't be overloaded with woke ideology abd blatantly racist sexist anti-racist hiring policies where our admin are mostly women

[cth96190]

Young women get the tingles for ‘exciting’ bad boys, who are usually sociopaths.
Some women are sufficiently intelligent to become what are called gold diggers.
Seldom does one see a wealthy man with an unattractive woman.
My advice to young men is that the juice is not worth the squeeze and the legal liability of dealing with females is unacceptably high.

[Voster]

I think the top 20% for women who aren't part if the elite is a tall attractive 6 figure earner. However some top tier women (modern day trophies) its handsome millionaires. Basically attractive rich men are #1. THEN it's unattractive millionaires (short, ugly etc.)

[Voster]

As for getting there, expand your network and work very hard in your chosen field. Power for men is pyramid shaped, the more men under you the more power you have, the more attractive you are. Power is attractive above everything else.

[Vegasrunner]

It's a combination of things and you dont have to have all of them but you need to have a combination of some of them.
1) Money- Obvious
2) Power/Authority - there's a reason women tend to date up in status men tend to date down
3) Looks - Obvious
4) Confidence - Act as if
5) Intllegence - Obvious
6) Abundance Mentality- Women are attracted to men that have other women.
7) Humility - The ability to check your ego is crucial when dealing w/ women.

[True_Sage]

They don't care about intelligence if it doesn't come with either money or looks. Intelligence on its own is threatening as you're harder to manipulate emotionally. Women want emotional control and someone they can guilt trip when needed

[Vegasrunner]

@True_Sage I disagree. Many women find intelligence sexy. They have an entire category for it. Also when you're an Alpha male women w/ an abundance mentality there not going to spend as much time trying to manipulate. How many women have you been w in your lifetime?

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

I AM TIRED IF THIS SHIT!
Dude! You don't have to be on the top whatever the fuck to get girls. Forget that stupid myth that you hear online and throw it in the garbage where it belongs.
As long as you are a genuinely good person, with decent social skills and you don't live on your couch you can find someone.

[True_Sage]

Lie. If he wants to actually have good chances and not have to try 99999 times he needs muscles or money. End of story.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@True_Sage money you have with any job. Most women don't give a fuck as long as you can bring some money home. Literally half of my closest friends are in relationships where their girlfriends make significantly more.
Muscles help. Of course they do. But look around. All people you see in relationships go to the gym? Do all of them are millionaires for that matter? Of course not. So how did they get into a relationship in the first place?

[True_Sage]

Thats called getting old, ugly, and settling. You clearly don't chase the best girls.

[True_Sage]

Or even the top 50% of girls...

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@True_Sage
None of them is even 30 yet. You really have your views upside down.

You mean I dish out the bitch ones. You can't see a pair of tits and go right ater them. Talk to them too. If they have half a brain than carry on.
Don't make the excuse that the good ones are ugly like there is any truth in that.

[mobiusforniner]

The reason the so called nice guys all feel jaded is because women ain't dumb. They can sniff out the guys doing nice things to get sex...

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@mobiusforniner absolutely.

[CubsterShura]

Well he's above 6 feet tall and that's like only about 10-15% of the male population, sounds like a fair factor to take into consideration for me!

I also believe he has above average IQ, or at least he is just smarter than average in life.

[shaysh87]

🤣 if women only dated for the top 20% of men, then who is the remaining 80% of women going to date? Our world would stop procreating, nobody would be getting married if this were the case.

[shanom]

Women end up sharing, they just don't know it until it's too late

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Most women are just sharing the top 20% I told you this already. This is how it works. 90% of women chase the top 20% of men. The other 80% of men compete for the remaining 10% of women (That's why you have 5 and 6's acting like dimes) The 20% of men then get to pick and choose from the women that are chasing them.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner @shanom

If all the women are sharing the top 20% of men then that means there’s absolutely nobody getting married. All the women are just single moms having kids with the top 20% of men?

[shaysh87]

You both sound like really bitter guys

[shanom]

A lot of women are single mothers lol. Marriage is not the same as dating someone desirable. Women will settle for below average men after they are done riding the carousel

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 That doesn't make any sense not sure what marriage has to do w/ this at all, but even if it did that would leave the other 10% of women left to try to get married.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Um I'm in the top 10% so there's nothing to be bitter about. I hope it stays like this forever.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

listen dude, if the top 20% of all men were being shared by 90% of all women. then nobody would be getting married. Vast majority of women would be unmarried. 90% of women will be single. and nobody would be having families. It'll just be the top 20% of men impregnating the 90% of women through casual hookups, creating a ton of single moms.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

I'm pretty sure you're in the bottom 10%

[shanom]

Marriage says nothing lol

[shanom]

Marriage is women settling, not dating someone they truly desire

[shaysh87]

@shanom

i think vast majority of people want to eventually get married. There are more people who want marriage than not.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Lol, why do you think that?

[shanom]

Not interested in marriage if I'm not the man she desires

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

just use some logic and see what the world would be like if women only wanted the top 20% of all women.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

just use some logic and see what the world would be like if women only wanted the top 20% of all men**.

if you were the top 10% of all men, you wouldn't be saying this shit.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 You kinda have to think that or else you would be forced to respect peoples opinions that differed from yours.

[shaysh87]

@shanom

i think you'd be lucky enough if you can get 1 date, don't even talk about marriage.

[shanom]

I don't date, I realized how women see me and no thanks

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

sometimes your "opinion" could just be a straight out projection of bitterness and frustration.

[shaysh87]

@shanom

yes, thats why you're on a misogynist website talking shit about women and marriage.

[shanom]

Marriage is a joke, women settling had nothing to do with the argument

[shanom]

Lol, who is talking shit. Telling the truth isn't talking shit

[shanom]

Good luck to the man you settle for, and good luck to all the side men you will have through that marriage

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Umm, Reality is women all chase the top 20%. So we already know what the world looks like.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Lol, now that's an interesting one, you're position is I'm not a 10% man because I"m representing 10% men? Please explain.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Yes it could. What are you bitter and frustrated about?

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

you're just saying that because you're mad that you're in the bottom 10% of men.

[shaysh87]

@shanom

I can tell you're a really unhappy bitter person.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 If that were remotely true we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

so what? you only go for women in their 20s, sounds like you also only go for top 10% of all women.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 False. My age range if chicks is 25-49. Literally have told you this multiple times. Part of your issue is you pick and choose what you want to hear and then attempt to make it fit a belief that only you hold. Literally everyone on this site has told you you're wrong..

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

There aren’t many 25 yr old women interested in a man in his 40s. I know cus I am in my 20s and I’m not attracted to 40 yr old men. Neither are any of my friends or social circle dating anyone within that age range. Actually I don’t know of 1 woman in her 20s that is dating a man in his 40s. Large age gap couples are something that I see once or twice every 2 -3 years. It’s definitely not common

I think you just want to spew out lies to make yourself feel better about being an unattractive aging old man

[shaysh87]

[Actually I don’t know of 1 woman in her 20s that is dating a man in his 40s.]

And by this I meant a woman that I know from real life either as a neighbor , coworker or social circle or friend.

[rocksongwriter]

"Marriage is women settling, not dating someone they truly desire."

Um... if a woman dated someone she truly desired, wouldn't she want to marry him?

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 That's probably the most foolish reason to hold a belief. You're just one person so you can't make it out as of your limited experience is reality. The fact that you dont know anyone isn't relevant. In fact part of the reason probably has to do w/ where you live and the type of people you have surrounded yourself w/. Sounds like if you raise the bar you could probably increase your experiences. By your logic all 25 year olds want to bang 40 years old, since I bang 25 year olds and most of my circle does? Also you're obsession w/ age is a bit creepy. This discussion has nothing to do w/ age but here you are again unsolictidly telling me about your dating life. While I appreciate the conversation, could you please refrain from sharing that info as it is uncomfortable to have a supposed adult fixated on age gaps.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

Why don’t you take a look at the research and statistics presented? The statistics shows vast majority of couples dating guys less than 10 years older.

Yea sure a woman in her 20s may bang a old guy in his 40s but it doesn’t mean she wants a relationship with you. I have banged a 18 yr old kid before. It doesn’t mean I want to date him. Plenty of older women bang younger men too.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

You got your hopes up , didn’t you? Just cus a 20 yr old slut had a one night stand with you, it doesn’t mean she wants to date you or marry you. You’ll see her married to a young guy in his 20-30s in 5 years.

Same for men. Men will have sex with a fat lady but won’t date or marry her. Sexual value doesn’t mean dating value

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 We already had this discussion. If you can produce research that shows the number of 40 year old men that bang 20 year old women vs the number of 40 year old women banging 20 year old men then I would be interested in reading it do you have anything that relates specifically to that?

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 That's kind of offensive to refer to a woman like that so you hate women? Which one? I've banged a bunch of 20 year olds. And as far as marriage Lol, there's a saying among 10% guys that I'll let you in on. There's a lot of guys married to my ex playthings. I wish them all the best because I wouldn't want to be stuck married to them. Marriage is a waste of time for men.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

It’s easier for a 40 something yr old woman to bang a younger man than it is for a 40 yr old man to bang a 20 something yr old women.
Why?
Men pay 20-30 dollars a month to look a porn and ass.

Women aren’t as desperate for sex, especially when younger women have lower sex drives than older women. A woman’s sex drive is the highest in her 30s-40s

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

I would bang a 40 yr old guy but I wouldn’t date or marry him. You can’t grow old with someone who is already old,

I’m 26, and I’m not interested in men over the age of 35. Best age for me to date is 28-34.

[shaysh87]

I’m not attracted to 90% of guys over 40 out there. It’s hilarious how old guys on here think they look just as good as guys in their 30s. A man in his 30s his out of your league. You have no chance against a 30 yr old man on getting a hot 25 yr old

[rocksongwriter]

You make 40-years-olds sound like 80-year-olds.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 You're smoking liquid crack if you think it's easier for 40 year old women to date 20 year olds vs viceversa. By 40 a womens sense of reality has kicked in and she's dosent fantasize about marrying some celebrity or Disneyland fairytale not to mention most single 40 year olds have kids and that knocks 2 points off their value plus by the time a woman reaches 40 there are less available single guys so men become the demand. This is also why guys should stay single longer because when you get to 40 the women start chasing you vs the other way around. I literally drop dozens of 40 year olds a week. Based on what you're saying and your relectance to say where you live, (I'm hearing some small town guber talk. You) You probably just dont know enough people. You also claim you have so much evidence however you can't present any that shows 40 yr old women vs 40 yr old men?

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 So you agree w/ my point why did it take you so long to admit?

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 How would you know. How many women have you banged?

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 No one cares who you're attracted to. Women do this in an attempt to get sympathy. Buy a cat and die alone for all I care. You're the one whose single and desperate, meanwhile I've already told you I have a new woman every night. Seems like you need to raise the bar because in a few years you're going to be to old for anyone.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

Just because a young girl would fuck you , it doesn’t mean she wants to marry you

I think you’re the one who is age obsessed and totally butt hurt over the statistics that vast majority of young girls simply do not marry old men

Why are you still even arguing? Statistics and data already have proven you wrong longtime ago.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 I dont think this qualifies as an argument an argument is two people debating opposing views about a common topic. You dont have a topic you just keep spewing random phrases, and then pretend that somehow someone would be hurt by what you said.. When honestly you're just entertainment to me. Your attempting to tell me what my life experiences are and then get upset when I tell you you're wrong. You keep bringing up age and marriage and literally no one else is talking about this. My gut feeling is that you are much younger than 31 perhaps even in your early teens because you're struggling to make any kind of coherent argument.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

Statistics have proven you to be wrong a long time ago.

The only reason why you’re still arguing is cus you’re angry over the fact that vast majority of young women date young men instead of old aging men suffer from a middle life crisis who are crying cus they just realized they’re no longer 30

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

why are you so mad , dude? what bothers you so much about this?

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

why can't you just accept the facts and move on? the numbers and data are clear as day.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Nothing. I think the entire thing is entertainment. If anything it makes me look better.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 I'm currently banging 20+ year olds are you saying you want me to accept that fact?

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

Sorry I hurt your feelings when I told you that you are 44, not 30.

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

[I'm currently banging 20+ year olds are you saying you want me to accept that fact?]

just because there's 1 20 yr old who wants to bang you, it doesn't mean she wants to date or marry you ok? Just like men would bang a fat lady but never marry her.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 That does not seem like something anyone's feelings should be hurt over. I would encourage you to share more as it's a terrific teaching tool for guys that seek out my advice

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

you know whats more terrific for you? check out the statistics and data of who the vast majority of young women in their 20s are marrying.

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 Just like how some guy would probably bang you if he was desperate and had no other options he just wouldn't marry you?

[Vegasrunner]

@shaysh87 The irony of your statements is you're the one that cares about marriage yet have failed. I care about sex and have succeeded yet your attempting to lecture me based on your failures? LOL, you can't make this up. And I'm still waiting for you to share this so called data or did you quit trying to find it?

[shaysh87]

@Vegasrunner

Do you think a woman in her 20s is desperate? I don’t think so. Women in their 20s typically have plenty of options with time on their hands. They don’t have to settle for an old aging ugly old man.

[Honesttguy]

Position of power and then how well you look (tall, cloth style, grooming, in shape)
Also character, whining, crying, bitching about things is weak behaviour and thus not attractive.

[Anonymous]

Women don't want true love. Women are attracted to men with money, property, assets, gold, cryptos, supercars, etc. They don't want to work and earn on their own. All women want to be dependent on their boyfriend or Husband. Unfortunately, they wait too long for the rich boyfriend or husband and they grow old. They regret it when they cross 40+ age when no man wants to date or marry her.

[Sarahr123]

It depends on individual taste. There is no such thing as universally perfect. Not everyone will like you.

[Anonymous]

I also think the women that couldn’t land a guy in the top 20% wouldn’t exactly be a woman that the rest of the 80% of the men want. I’m just saying the argument can go both ways.

[RandomGuy1030]

Hypergamy is one way

[Cathy7734]

Why wouldn't 80% of men want the woman that couldn't land a guy in the top 20%?

[Vegasrunner]

Na that's false. The 80% of guys can't get anyone so they will settle for anything. Reality is a guy w/ bang anything so if they'll put major effort in trying to fight for any woman instead of fighting to be in that 20%

[Opinion Owner]

@Vegasrunner When it comes to sex, yeah, but will they actually want a long term relationship with these women?

[Vegasrunner]

Yes, I dont think women understand how lonely loser guys are. Those 80% guys are usually fighting over 10% of women so they treat those 10% like their dimes because they can't get any better. They would definitely enter a long term relationships and fight hard ti keep that girl. That's part of the reason why even ugly girls have confidence these days.

[EssenceOfLight]

180cm +
fit-slender V body shape
interesting eyes
chiselled jaw
deep masculine voice

You can't have it if you don't get it from your parents.

[annabananna]

Treat each women you meet like an individual and get to know them for them. Don’t play silly games because that always shows insecurity.

[CloudMassacre]

What determines?
A bunch of subjective bullshit
How to get there?
Working on YOU

[Asker]

Well that's a start

[FunkyMonkee]

Mostly, he just has to beat the shit out of her and she's his for life!!

[bamesjond0069]

In terms of what you can do something about:

1. Go to the gym
2. Make more money
3. Learn game/how to be smooth/conversationalist

[JesseJayNeak]

Open and own several businesses. Gain a lot of money. Buy expensive cars and a yacht. Dress elegantly. And last but not least, learn a few languages

[Asker]

I didn't ask how to get gold diggers.

[JesseJayNeak]

That’s part of being in the 20%

[RandomGuy1030]

All females are Like toys, they have a price tag

[myabe123]

WHAT ABOUT REAL LOVE AND REAL CONNECTION? What does that not matter? Ugh

[rocksongwriter]

It does matter. The question asker was just saying that women seem to seek real love and real connection from only the top 20% of men and was asking how a man can get in that top 20%.

[shanom]

Women don't love lol, they use

[captain_voidwalker]

The mark of the beast, 6inch or longer manhood, 6ft or taller in height, and 6 figures or more for income

[Paul09]

I have no clue. I've been single for ages now. Hard to find dates, and when I do, they don't seem to work out.

[Anonymous]

Look up the common traits of the Sigma male. That is a good start.

[Valso]

You need AT LEAST $10,000 weekly salary and you'll be one of the top all women will be after.

[True_Sage]

Money or muscles pick one.
That's all thatcreally matters past the lies.

[ODC2112]

Ability to give emotion to females. All other justifications are for losers.

[True_Sage]

Women don't want women. Sorry.

[DaySpring]

Haha you're definitely a player. Only a player or someone who has been already them what say this.

[DaySpring]

@odc2112 I cannot disagree with you although, from a far you cannot give a girl emotions without looking good. I mean like a strange at the store or something. Because it is all physical from afar but once you can communicate then that is something different

[True_Sage]

@DaySpring lol yup.

[RARETRAMP]

I utterly agree with Ez-Bri-Z comment just be yourself my dear friend.

[grega239]

Who cares. Im not in that 20 so i just decided to go with plan b

[Anonymous]

Find you purpose
Increase masculine energy workout
Build a future
Develop strong masculine frame
Set standards be a leader a good leader thats non reactive.

[Anonymous]

It’s more like the top 10% and in order to get there either have to be super super rich or look like a Greek God

[Anonymous]

Those women that want the top 20% are not worth it anyways, they are too shallow with high expectations.

[True_Sage]

Dude... 80% of women want the top 20%. It's well researched. So either go for the bottom 20% of women like fat single moms or get muscles or money.

[Jltakk]

Outside of jutting your chin out, make money first. Only then will you be undeniable.

[RandomGuy1030]

What makes u the MOST attractive are the things hardest to change

[mobiusforniner]

Yes, which means it requires work... something foreign to most boys these days

[DaySpring]

100% And you said it in 1 sentence.

[Anonymous]

Attractive, in good shape, funny and rich (double comma club should be sufficient)

[Anonymous]

Top 20 gets free sex during college or before. Bottom 80 are leftovers that women just settled to marry or had to pay for sex at dates or brothels

[Agape93]

Still on with this 80/20 bullshit?

[RandomGuy1030]

Its data

[Agape93]

No, it isn't. You claim a lot on every stupid post about this. But nothing you provide is factual, despite your claims.

[Agape93]

@PrettyPriya

[Anonymous]

I think money is everything. They can afford nice clothing and car etc make them look good.

[Asker]

https://youtu.be/xe2F_cShZ3M

[Anonymous]

tall good looking and wealthy. thats all women care about

[Waldoe]

#1... "not" caring about keeping Score

[Anonymous]

Workout, learn some game, dress well, read a book.

[michael1469]

A thick wallet and junk down to his knees...

[Anonymous]

LooksStatusMoneyYou already knew the answer.

[Opinion Owner]

* Looks
Status
Money