I guess it depends on where you live. (Age may be a factor as well). Around here there are thousands of single guys with the 5 factors you mentioned above, in a small to medium sized city. That creates to serious competition. You have to find some way to set yourself apart from the crowd or you get nothing.
@WalterBlack yea, I could see that. Like in NYC having your own vehicle doesn't actually make sense. Even DC to some extent. I don't think age is really a factor tho, outside of how it pertains to the other factors. Like if you're 21-25 with roommates or with Mom and Dad, that's more understandable than being 40 living with mom and dad or with roommates unless the area is very expensive like NYC. I imagine the average person in NYC has at least 1 roommate because of the cost of living.
@WalterBlack wow. men think the above traits are "competition." priceless. y'all think that having a secure job flipping burgers and being "moderately" good looking is going to make you a part of the top 20% of men? wow. top 20% of men are those that are 10/10 in all qualities. model-type men with tons of cash, a Porsche, and a mansion. but i don't think 80 percent of women care about those type of men. unless they are golddiggers of course.
@DianaWest: 20% of men don't fit your description, probably less than 0.5%.
Probably best not to engage her to be honest. She either missed the point or is ignoring the point, because she has her own agenda.
Still, if you are not in the top 50% of guys, it is basically a waste of time to look for a woman unless your standards are low.
That i would say is much closer to being accurate, but not completely accurate.
I am in the bottom 20 %
So if you're not in the top 50%, what's wrong with hanging with a 4 or 5 level girl? There are a lot of nice girls at that level. Many make great companions. Some may think they deserve a level 10 guy, but deep inside they know they're not level 10 material. That's why I'm not totally convinced of hypergamy.
I would try to hang out with a 4 girl but I feel they wouldn’t want anything to do with me
@Wally48 because "4 and 5 level" girls (very odd phrase) are included in the 80% of women who go after only the top men.
@SpearsAndStones Yes but I’m like a 6 and had a 7 girl talking to me happily this morning, and she was talking to a 5 guy before me.. Of course, I want surgery to become an 8
I am only a 6/10 on face, not enough to get a date
Looks aren’t everything my friend
Yes they are
@AJC997 no they aren't
I swear to you they are important
No one said they’re not important.
Spot on, lady! Hear, hear! Too many men resent women for their natural instinct to procreate with the finest stock of us. If they directed their resentment inward, instead, the smarter ones would find that they could ALWAYS do something to improve their condition.
@Mr1987Joe That’s why I want a nose job and to hire a personal trainer once I have a lot of money
@AJC997 First off, I get the feeling that you're not nearly as ugly as you think you are, so don't get a fucking nose job, dude. That's retarded.Second, getting a personal trainer is given, but this is 2019. We have self-driving cars, robot dogs, vegetarian cheeseburgers, and YouTube. There's are all kinds of cardio workouts on there that you can follow along with for free, and plenty of personal trainers plying their trade for the same. Look up a guy called Athlene-X. He's very knowledgeable.
@Mr1987Joe I’m not ugly, no, but what else could I spend that 6 or 7’000 dollars on that would improve my chances of getting into a relationship?And yeah I guess you’re right, a personal trainer is overrated since there’s exercises on YouTube. I really want to build my clavicles so I can look a little more built and bigger, have more physical presence
@AJC997 How about taking it and opening up a savings account to show a lady that you're not impulsive and fiscally responsible?Well, the clavicle is a bone, not a muscle. So, that's not going to work out, too well. Also, do not focus on any specific muscle. Perform a varied regimen that hits your entire body. Don't fall into the trap of obsessing about your appearance. Work on your athleticism, and your bodily aesthetics will be an endearing side-effect of your devotion.
@Mr1987Joe Yes I might open up an account next weekend
@AJC997 You can work out on your own using a far less expensive gym, walking and biking. Unless your nose is damaged through boxing or an accident, live with and love yourself. Maybe after doing general improvements and boosting your confidence, you'll find you don't have to spend thousands of dollars on flaws that are deeply unimportant. Look healthy, dress nicely, use your brains and personality. Those are the keys to attraction.
@Screenwriter @AJC997 Words of wisdom. Listen to the lady, bud.
@Mr1987Joe I am flattered, Mr. Joe. I'd offer you a cup of Joe, if I could... Regards.
@Screenwriter OoOo... That sounds good. I'm making coffee, now.
@AJC997: on another thread, I mentioned dance lessons. Women love guys that can dance and the lessons will make you more confident.
@Logorithim Damn straight.
Dancing is a neglected skill. Because my very young son took ballet lessons, he learned how to be a good skate boader. I claim leading him to that. He was chosen to go to a dance academy. But he'd had enough. Went for more traditional music. You might learn an instrument or language too. Travel abroad.
@Screenwriter: Agreed on all points. I would recommend French in particular as a language to target.
You are just trying to woo me, aren't you Logo! French is a hard one though. It's like learning a new version of English. Lots of irregular verbs, silent pronounciations. It's a devil. Very pretty though. Visiting France makes learning the language worthwhile. A lovely city Paris, beautiful Loire Valley where so many wines are cultivated...
@Screenwriter: my mother taught French at the high school level. The language was my first love because I had not had a girlfriend when I first had it in school.
Sorry for interrapting you guys. But do you see what are they doing to you. They are creating a smoke screen and they are pretty good with it. They bombard you with a lot of nice ideas which makes sense on what girls like and how beautiful is someone , but what they actually doing they are distracting you from the fact that its 12p. m and that a lpt of drunk 10/10 girls are walking on the street ready to suck your dick. On the other side your writing here and thinking about how your face look instead of banging this girls right now. What am i doing here wtf
Ok so you're argument is that, unattractive men, who women are attracted to are just making up that women aren't attracted to them because they're, in your own words, unattractive. Yeah tell US about cognitive fallacies.The idea that every man has a chance is mostly just something women love to hang onto to make themselves feel better.
@SpearsAndStones I have no idea what you just said.
@SpearsAndStones Would you date a 300-pound woman sweetheart? please. as if men don't have standards.
@DianaWest A) You're positing a straw-man argument. I didn't say that women weren't allowed to have standards, I said that the original commenter's argument was fallacious. Really don't know where you got that. You're probably not that bright and don't have great informational literacy or reading skills... whoops :/B) I actually would date women who are overweight and obese, and have tried to date obese women before. Not that many, but you don't fucking know me, so don't talk like you do. Unlike people who think you have a solid argument here, I wouldn't hear one trait about someone (i. e. "300 pounds") and then disqualify them.
@SpearsAndStones By the way... Your comment (the reply to my opinion) was completely nonsensical. Please try again.
@latinabutterfly96I would date a chubby girl too
@SpearsAndStones wow. look at all those intellectual words you are using to display your high level of intelligence. i am truly flabbergasted that you spent so much time consulting the dictionary to mould the perfect response for someone who doesn't actually care as much as you'd hope. i am actually quite bright. i have a 4.0 GPA in a top 20 university. people who attack others' character and suggest erroneous things like "you are not bright" without having any proof are hypocritical. tell me again about the straw man?
@DianaWest There is a lot to unpack here, but I'll start with, if you claim to be intelligent, you DEFINITELY aren't. You still didn't really understand I read. And you don't know what a straw-man argument is, so if you're going to make fun of someone else for having a large vocabulary, you might want to make sure when you try to do the same thing, you use words correctly, otherwise it comes across as SUPER funny when you try to use a word you don't know and then fuck it up right after you told us all about how intelligent you are.
@SpearsAndStones i'd love to continue this back and forth squabble with you, but i'll just let you feed your own ego.
I'm assuming dateability
And 80% of women that they want or that want them?
That want them
I dont think that they'd want 80% of the women that want them. That number seems high.
That is one of the points I made above
Ok, I was just stating my opinion after gathering more information.
I was thinking the same
@brittslitt Can I ask you a question?
@brittslitt men's standards aren't like women's. The statsitic by the way isn't that 20% of men have 80% of women, but that 20% of men account for 80% of women's sexual encounters. So it's just a bunch of women having sex with the same guys. Not guys who have 80% of women
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Mr. Oracle should have the MHO here. This analysis is spot on. And i know some are going to disagree and say some women aren't this way at all. And they're right. This is a generalization and what Mr. Oracle is saying is generally right. There's always going to be exceptions to every rule. And these women who are the exceptions lack of pickiness typically allows them to find happiness much earlier.
Ugh. Hypergamy is disgusting. No wonder many if not most men are single.
Due to @Bluemax saying it was interesting that I disagreed.
What’s your body count
@Thotkiana A gentleman doesn't discuss his sex life with those he's not involved with.
"Once the anime eyes light dies. so does the relationship."This was a hilarious line.I think that these women are not learning that lesson early enough. Women are incredibly beautiful in their early years and it's a lose for everyone (except the players) if they waste it pursuing men that won't produce a serious relationship.
@Monster_Recluse thanks,I can agree with you on that note too.I will always prefer a deep minded person since Im capable of taking care of myself. So It very much so possible they were also dating the guys for their shallow reasons as well. Some did get condos/houses/cars out of it lol
So she basically agrees that most girls go after the established men, but when the relalize it’s pointless they settle for less
@chris_987 Yeah pretty much but hopefully the decent honest guys who was always overlooked in their 20's worked on themselves and got ahead in life by the time they hit 30, then go for 20 year olds fuck going with a women similar age in your 30's as they will most likely be single mums with a baby daddy issues and won't look as good so why be with them when you hit your prime while they overlooked you in their prime?
Don’t ask me in just a guy
@chris_987 I think it's about how you were raised, if you were educated and trained in ethics you'll not sell yourself short. Women who sell themselves as commodities don't think they have anything to offer but their beauty/body. They are likely not well enough educated to acquire good jobs or informed enough to seek alternate careers, training. It's easy, they think, to be taken care of. Yet, they may not know what they've missed out on in the bargain.
Guys don’t need to be protected or provided for so we’ll marry a woman that does work, but the riches women probably won’t marry a man that doesn’t work
@chris_987 There's all kinds of work. Maybe his "work" is unpaid or unmarketable. Maybe it enhances their mutual home while she drags in significant bucks. Maybe it's homemaking and child rearing on top of his "work."
Link 1 was busted, corrected below:medium.com/.../tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a
No, I meant to ssk exactly that becsuse it's an oft-repeated maxim.
Well, people say a lot of things, don't they?
Your comments are spot on. The hard, cold reality of the last US census is there are roughly 2 to 3 percent more females. On the other hand there are 4% more males than females in Costa Rica for example. In major urban US population centers there are even a higher percentage of females. So even if you look like Shrek, you can find a girl as long as you're not too picky. Like you said age is a factor too. I live in a sunbelt community with lots of retirees. Here, if you're average looking guy, can still get it up, and have even a small amount of money, you're buried in females. I get hit on at least once every couple of weeks. And I am definitely not one of those 20% alphas. I'm a fit, strong, and friendly beta, and I get all the girls I want.
... I guess my point was, with the current US demographics, you have to work at being INCEL
@Wally48: its well known that at your age the balanced is tipped in favor of males, but youve hivrn misleading stats. Women are outnumbered by men in the US until the late 30s, so during the vast majority of their childbearing years there is a surplus of men. Telling a guy in his 20s or 30s that there is a surplus of retired women isn't going to do anything for him, or even a guy my age.
Do you find at your age there is a shortage of women? The US census I reviewed didn't have an age breakout. I'll go look some more because it's an interesting subject. Actually the only two States that had more men cumulatively was Wyoming and Alaska. And yes us old guys have an advantage. But college guys do too. More women than men in college now.
@Wally48: more girls in college, but they are more also more likely to be adult students with kids, plus college girls can date guys who aren't in college and are working full-time; that said, tyou're right that it's the best place for a young guy to meet girls. Also, for almost all guys, a single mother is less desirable than a woman with no kids.The Census Bureau breaks it out by age cohort.
I haven't tried meeting women in their 40s here in the US because I moved here to be with my thirtysomething girlfriend, who is a real gem. I had no luck meeting women my age in Germany because I have three kids, and that is a dealbreaker there.
@Wally48 Betas are probably more relaxed and plenty of alphas are dead by your age. Betas win in the long haul. I've met some alphas. Worked with some. Betas are always better men. Here's my celebrity Beta theory. George Clooney and Brad Pitt are betas. Both have chosen strong, attractive women who did not need them and they let their women run the show. This doesn't mean they don't have THEIR own show. But their show doesn't interfere with their woman's. Clooney, as Alpha handsome and strong looking as he is, is soft spoken and has played in endearing, self-deprecating comedies. Alphas never make fun of themselves. They are perenially serious. Pitt has played many strong leading men, but also crazies, 12 Monkeys, idiots, Inglorious Basterds, War Machine... He's played parodies of alphas in many comedic and and comedy drama roles... Clooney's done the same. Alphas never make mistakes. Betas learn to roll with the punches. Betas laugh, alphas grimace. Top dogs die young. No. 2 takes their place after they die when the stress is so low, they just ride the remaining wave. Betas are always easygoing men with warm smiles and hearts. Alphas are always trying to squash Betas. But they step aside for the Alpha tirades and stomach ulcers and heart attacks and strokes. Betas are better. My prejudiced theory and personal insight.
"Great" data. No information about what the axis are.
@Unit1 Learn how to Google, you sad sack. Quit expecting people to hold your hand.static1.squarespace.com/.../...omen+comparison.png
Tossing insults at me isn't doing any good ya school kid but that would be entirely your problem.
I think even that is not accurate.
How so? You do have the females who are in relationships and the other females (bottom 20%) who are unattractive to the top 20%.There's still a huge imbalance in the sexual market place. They're just rough estimates
It's more of a generalization actually, but the theory exists as some indication of the world we are or are becoming.It's also more generational, you say your age is 42 and a lot of these young men who grew up are now 18-20-somethings or even 30-somethings.
@UncleJessieRabbit Do you mean that the concept of an incel is a generational thing?
There have always been men who were chronically non-celibate or unhappily without a person, but it seems that it exacerbated into a bigger epidemic since at least my generation or so. But who knows, I guess.
@UncleJessieRabbit I think so. Young men don't approach women these days. I think it is all the video games and also the fear of some sexual harassment claim.
i know. i see people thinking "wow, they're so hot." and then i'm like, really? cause i just saw some pregnant woman in the parking lot sporting a makeup-less face and she still looks better than this "top" woman.
They eventually settle. But 80% of women desire and chase the 20%
@StickStickity13 lmao or so you tell yourself so you can sleep at night..
Nothing to do with me, but the data speaks for itself...
@StickStickity13 “the data” ahahahah and next you’re gonna post a little tinder statistic?
85% of black are single mothers so your theory is out the window
The top 20% of men get the sex from 80% of the women. It's not a bad thing, but it makes a lot of sense.
It’s about 65% of African-American women. Too high, yes. But not 85%.
My god, please go outside y’all
Lol what’s that supposed to mean?
I would but the outdoors are dangerous. :(
I actually went skiing yesterday and saw a bear so I agree outside is dangerous
What about the cheating crossover?
www.google.com/.../nearly-1-in-3-american-men-aged-18-29-didnt-have-sex-in-2018%3f_amp=trueNot yet but it will happen soon enough at this rate.
@Stevied93 So men are now experiencing dry spells at the same rate as women? Wow, that really proves.. what does that prove again I’m lost as to why you’d post that here?
Women have dry spells? Men are literally pay for pussy, so how can it be harder for a women to gets sex
@chris_987 seems like I just burst your bubble? Welcome to reality, buddy
Not really, I just told you that men are willing to pay for sex much less do it for free, if the tables where turned and women payed for sex every guys would be getting laid. Are you understanding what I’m saying?
@chris_987 Men pay for sex from prostitutes. Women who are not prostitutes are not engaging in sex to simply have sex. That's the difference between men and women. Women who are not sex workers do not engage in sex willy nilly. Some men will pay to do so rather than go without. Women in general would rather not jeopardize their reputations. The double standard is alive and well.
Well the reason why Certain men pay for prostitutes is because they can’t get sex from women. So they have to pay for it. Women can get sex from both men and women without any money being exchanged. The only reason why women don’t go around trying to get sex from men is because they don’t want that they want a relationship. And In order for a women to get a relationship she has to have a man show love for her first. So if having a relationship is something you can’t force then women won’t get that, but they can get sex easier than a man which is my point.
@Screenwriter “Women who are not sex workers do not engage in sex willy nilly.” Whhhhyyyy not? That’s so frustrating.
@Robertcw Even with the best protection, there is the threat of pregnancy. The double standard still exists. A woman who sleeps around is not a stud, she's a whore. And an UNPAID one. More denigration. Engaging in random sex exposes one to STDs that could impact fertility. Sex is more of a pair bonding endeavor for women because they are child bearers. Women's bodies urge them to remain pregnant to keep the race going. Men are wham bang because they are "seeders." Does anyone want to sleep with someone who has hundreds of notches in their belts? It sounds like they don't and can't connect, and that sex is their only goal. Sounds pretty shallow and emotionally bankrupt.
Thing is, I believe that if a person simply had the opportunity to try things out for themselves first hand they’d be able to discover whether or not they feel emotionally bankrupt or not. Issue is many men are never given the opportunity to see for themselves.
Presumably the top 80%
In some aspects, but not entirely. People are unlike animals as we have many other qualitied to go about rather than who is the strongest, fastest, who has the best plumage or most majestic horns; we are far more diverse and selecting a mate based solely on physical appearances is almost never done. So, the top 20% would need to bring a lot more to the table for them to be able to pull 80% of women.
80 percent of men are not single?
@Stevied93 Yeah it’s because most men are just not enough
I think women underestimate men’s difficulties in the dating game due to privilege of an abundance of men.
Sure, but by then the damage has been done. Let’s say we’re talking 18-22 age range. Then, let’s say 80% (or realistically, 60%) are crushing on 20% (or realistically 40%) of peer male college students. Let’s compare freshman year experiences: Desirable guy might have 25 sexual partners freshman year. Average guy probably has 0-2 Average girl probably has 14 or something in between. Because of this, I believe many women grow up not realizing that not everyone is having 10+ sexual partners in college. It’s an issue of privilege due to the inherent way nature stacked the deck at birth. So then we go online and share our experience and women react in disbelief as if what average guys are saying is appalling — because it doesn’t match their own personal experiences. But that’s precisely the point.
Either that, or, women are rejecting so many guys so as to say that they themselves are not having sex either. In which case, this person is choosing nothing over being with regular people. Which also sort of supports the general idea expressed.
Probably something slightly more scientific than "what they've seen". No one gives a shit what you've seen. Like every other person on the planet, you see what you expect to see. To imply otherwise is arrogant. That's why we have people who know how to be objective called "academics" who do research on this type of thing. And if you'd like I could give you some sources form some people who actually know what the fuck they're talking about that show that, at the very least, women have higher standards than men.
@SpearsAndStones aww, i stirred you up pretty bad didn't I? Sweetie, if you have a problem with free speech, go and live in a cave where you can surround yourself with all of the "academic" studies that help to feed your fragile ego. and what i see is true. sometimes a series of observations that provide consistent patterns and results is considered objective. that's how the "academics" conduct most of their results. how many fat, bald men haven't you seen with hot, thin women?
That would be so humiliating. I’d want to be as good looking as my partner
@AJC997 you are actually quite good looking. better than a lot of guys i've seen on here posting pictures about how "hot" they are.
@DianaWestAw thank you. I’m working on gaining confidence in myself
@AJC997 you're welcome :)
Update: But again 80% of women aren't singlePlus each woman has different standards. Most women are looking for a meaningful LTR relationship, not looks or power or moneyValues>money&looksTherefore, I'm changing my initial answer to no