Does the 80/20 rule actually exist?

[RolandCuthbert]

So this weekend, I took a little time to look up some research on this phenomenon.

Apparently, women think 80% of available men are ugly and that only 20% are acceptable. While I think these numbers are probably off, I do feel this is a huge problem if true. Because it would explain why so many men, especially younger guys are in a constant state of rage.

They ain't getting any puddingtang.

Getting and having sex is simply apart of being masculine, across culture, the fakeness of race, etc. in this society. In order for most men to feel confident in their masculinity, they have to be able to have sex on a regular basis. They have to have success with dating women.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/married-and-still-doing-it/201708/6-truths-about-men-and-sex

• Sex is a craving for men; yet, a negative occurrence like having a fight with their partner can spoil the feeling.
• The moment their partner gets turned on is often the moment men describe as most sexually satisfying.
• For men, sexual connection is often necessary to feel safe enough for emotional vulnerability.

So the question for women here at GaG, do you find that most men are not attractive or desirable? Which leads to other questions like;

1. Does it bother you if a man has had a lot of different women in his past or has is currently dating a lot of other women when he approaches you?

2. What about men with no previous sexual experience? Are they worth at least going out on a few dates to see if you have anything compatible?

3. What about dating a male friend? Even if you go out just go have a good time, instead of focusing on romance?

I am kind of curious about the perspective of women here.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I'm asexual, so I'm probably not the target audience for this question as I don't feel sexual attraction to men or women, but I have done a little bit of psychological study and did find something interesting. Men and women have different understandings of intimacy, which is related to sex but not entirely.

To women, there's a difference between physical and sexual intimacy, physical intimacy being things like cuddling, spooning, hugging, holding and being held by someone else. And sexual intimacy is included in those actions, but it's also doing it with the clear intent that it leads to sex, it's about how one touches their body and how they touch theirs and finding that intention.

Men do not understand that difference and see them as the same thing.

This disconnect can cause all kinds of issues in relationships, and it's a big reason why so many couples get divorced after years and years of being together. Women hate women men won't even touch them because they're not attracted to them, or because they're on their period or any time when they know they won't be able to enjoy sex with them. This disconnect isn't because of a biological issue, it's entirely social. Men are told to hate everything feminine in society and be anything but feminine in order to be masculine, which is more or less the definition of masculinity that's remained clear over the years. Femininity includes things like emotional vulnerability, wanting to cuddle after sex, or even just experiencing platonic physical intimacy.

So women are more than happy to hug or cuddle with their friends and tell them of their issues in a way that doesn't make them seem invalidated as a person, meanwhile men rarely hug each other for longer than half of a second and don't talk about their feelings because that's girly.

With Covid pushing all of us indoors for over 2 years, we've all become more attached to our screens and sought out new ways to entertain ourselves when we're not allowed to go out and enjoy the world like we're used to. This has led men, especially young white men (I say this group specifically because they make up a majority of the incel community) to find people like Andrew Tate and other similar podcasters who are all about "masculinity" and defining what that means for them, which has turned into a message of abusing women just to make them feel better. And while this mainly affects the incel community, men still struggle a lot with stepping out of the confines of what they're told masculinity is without realizing that the definition of masculinity is incredibly fluid and can and should change for every generation and even every individual man.

Trevor Noah gave a good talk on it before he left The Daily Show. You might find some insight there.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eYmFyjy2EmQ

[RolandCuthbert]

Okay. . . that may be the greatest screenname ever. "Cupcakethedestroyer. Wow!!!

I don't think men misunderstand. I think men don't care. And I don't see how we can. We have our own needs. And women pretend this is some faucet that can be turned off. I hate it when women pretend that men are evil because they like women's bodies, breasts, legs, butt, etc. And I don't even like dealing with those women, even when they offer themselves to me.

I like women who like men.

As for what happens after marriage, I think that is completely off. And I don't think men. . . and I mean men. . not incels or males, etc. I mean masculine men.

Men have no issues with women being feminine. They have issues with aspects of feminism. It would seem that we could come to a compromise. But politics and other weirdness get in the way. There are plenty of women who don't want to be in the rat race. And there are plenty of men who are willing be breadwinners. The problem is most families can't have this dynamic since in our society everyone has to work.

This has many men feeling emasculated. And many women feeling too much pressure. And that exerts stress on families.

I have reached the point where I can support a family on salary alone. And I feel had I reached this point earlier, I would still be married.

Because it has nothing to do with sex or needing affection, etc. We struggled for power and control because of money.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I wasn't saying there was anything wrong in attraction, there IS something wrong in objectification and seeing women as a means of sex before seeing them as anything else. This disconnect in intimacy and understanding it means also understanding that this is part of where objectification comes from. Men see sex as the main form of intimacy and feels that need to be held and receive that physical comfort, but women seek out that physical comfort without the demands of sex, the problem is that a lot of men see intimacy and sex as the same thing which is what turns into frustration when each party has needs they want met but they can't get their partner to compromise without making it seem like an inconvenience and if your partner doesn't want what you want, why bother asking?
What I was referring to doesn't relate to a family dynamic, it just relates to the connection between a heterosexual couple and how men have been warded away so much from showing signs of femininity in themselves that they don't realize the damage they're causing to their own psyche in doing so and how limited they are in terms of support as a result. Did you watch the video about men and "the right to sex" that I linked there?

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, I am not a feminist. So I have engaged in objectification. And I have been objectified by the way. I don't have any issues with it. I am not here to critique feminism. But I am not going to let someone make me feel bad, because I am attracted to women's bodies. Nor will I pretend that women's interest in relationships is always based upon honest, virtuous ambitions. Women are just as shallow as men, as I have just illustrated with this example of attractiveness.

Men and women meet and have sex all the time. The issue is that we have a huge number of men complaining they can't get sex. And a huge number of women complaining that men are jerks and unfaithful.

I admit to being a jerk. And I admit to being unfaithful on numerous occasions. What do most women confess to. . . other than they were victims of cheating?

Why watch a video from a man whom like me. . . has no issues getting sex from women? Trevor Noah if he was not famous, might encounter issues. But him being Trevor Noah, he will never have that issue again. Even my old tail. . . won't have this issue again. Because I have confidence and self-esteem

We have. . . even in this forum GaG, dozens of angry males who have not had sex and have no possibilities on the horizon from their estimation. And that is damaging to their self-esteem because they see themselves as less masculine and society treats them as they are less masculine.

This something we have to change. And while I agree that women can't be forced to have sex with men they deem undesirable. We have to give these men the tools to ensure they have more success.

Because like it or not, having sex is a masculine trait.

What Are Masculine Traits? ↗

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

You won’t listen to another man on the premise that sex isn’t what you’ve been told it is based on the fact that he has more sex than you? Is that what you just said?

[RolandCuthbert]

What in the world are you talking about?

If I was a man struggling to find a date and to have intimacy with women, I would not go youtube. I would not go to women.

I would find men who were really good at getting dates and being social with women. And learn what I needed to learn.

How you made this equivalent to having sex is beyond me. Women have no idea about who is good or bad in bed. . . before they have had sex. So the question is irrelevant.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Ah, you believe in the ask a fisherman metaphor, not realizing the irony of it being a predator-prey situation

[RolandCuthbert]

If you feel like "prey" that's on you. Men have to be able to go out, approach women and get dates. That's just our job.

Women could make different choices. But they don't feel they have to. So why are you pretending this is only about men's failings? Men are objectifying women. Men are treating women bad, etc.

Women could do the same thing men have to do. They could learn to be social, go find men who are good-looking, successful and decent human beings and date them.

But they choose not to.

Why?

We both know why.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

If every relationship you’ve ever had has been a failure, you need to find the common denominator, not say all the women you dated had something wrong with them that you didn’t see from the get-go

[Msputiton]

I don't know how accurate that is.

See the problem with studies is they never give you good data.

They will study or survey like a hundred people or a thousand and go this represents everyone.

But i will use elections as an example as what i mean.

How many elections have we seen where one candidate in the first 1,500 votes get counted has an 85% vote count and once the million votes get counted they end up with like a 33% count and lose the election.

It's just to much of a variable as to what the real story is when there are millions and even billions of people that were never asked about this topic

[RolandCuthbert]

The data source is actually "Tinder" and OKCupid. Dating sites that have rating systems for men.

How about your own personal opinion? Do you find most men attractive or not? I wonder about the statistic too. I remember Halle Berry making an appearance on BET. And it was after she divorced Eric Benet. She said she found men from every ethnicity, color, and shape attractive. And it was hard to pick or date because of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzshwjuNbJU

[Msputiton]

Oh interesting so that would probably have a hire group range pulled from it.
But also the men on their might be a lower quality of men.

I don't know. I mean i don't think 80/20 from what i see is unattractive.
It was more a 60/40 kinda range.

[Msputiton]

*higher*

[RolandCuthbert]

Hmmm. . . that seems more reasonable.

Thanks!

[Msputiton]

No problem

[inhua]

yes it does exist and has always existed since the dawn of time not just in history but also in the animal kingdom. there's a reason why we have far more female ancestors than male ancestors. throughout history the majority of men were not kings, emperors or warlords who had access the most women. most men in history were soldiers, peasants, merchants who barely got any women and slaves were at the very bottom who got no women at all.

even today only a small handful of men ever truly grab any woman's attention. when she's thinking about the hot guy who approached her at a bar, she ain't thinking about the Indian cashier who works at the petrol station or the Chinese Chef who works at the local Chinese restaurant or the tech guy who fixed her computer.

if you cut out all the men who fail to meet her looks requirements, height requirements, finances requirements, outside of age limit etc. you won't find many men on that list. a lot of women don't even meet the same standards they put on men. majority of women aren't 6 feet tall, nor have 6 pack abs or earn 6 figures.

globally the top 20% of men live in 1st world countries and the other 80% of men live in 2nd or 3rd world countries.

the 80/20 rule exists because men and women value things differently in each other. at any point in time the majority of women were once young, beautiful and a virgin. at any point in time the majority of men are considered "losers" by women's standards and not all can make it out due to the intense competition. not everyone can become a lawyer, not everyone can become a doctor, not everyone can become a part of Hollywood or be in the NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL etc. majority of men simply do not get noticed.

[RolandCuthbert]

So explain why men who are not financially successful or wealthy can get beautiful women? Too many guys in this thread are saying there is nothing men can do. Women just decide who is masculine and that’s the end of the game.

And I don’t get it.

I am doing well for myself now. But I have been plenty broke before in the past. I know I am not good looking. But one thing has not changed in 20 years. I am confident when approaching women. I know how to be social. I know how to be aggressive.

Too many guys keep pointing to supposedly objective measures that are not objective. A woman’s whim cannot be predicted by money or looks.

[inhua]

except those men who don't bring any sort of value whether looks or money are not with beautiful women. you might think those women they are with are beautiful but that's your opinion. more often than not they are each other's looks match and if you're heterosexual, you are going to find the woman more attractive than the man. it's that simple.

anything numerical is an objective measure. money is an objective measure. height is an objective measure. body fat percentage is an objective measure. angle of jawline is an objective measure. what women find physically attractive in men is a lot more tangible and narrow whereas men are a lot more broad and can find nearly anything attractive if they put their mind to it.

actions speak louder than words and we see repeated patterns being observed time and time again thus a woman's whim can be predicted. we may not know exactly who she chooses but when she chooses someone we can explain why she chose them as a partner.

[RolandCuthbert]

It just seems you want it both ways. You want to say that women mad really bad choices in men. They choose men below their station. They choose men who cheat. They choose men who are not successful. . . all of the same complaints.

Then on the flip side. . . well the women who making these bad choices are not good looking women anyway.

I mean, man to man. . . isn't this the definition of irrational and illogical?

You make the claim 80/20 really exists. . . when you know most men find most women attractive. Yet. . . somehow the men who are in the 20% are not even dating good looking women.

Money is not an objective measure. I have male friends who use women for money. I could have in the past, but there just something that felt extremely emasculating about using women for money. I could use them for sex. But money just felt strange. I had women offer me money. A place to stay. Women would buy me clothes.

All of that felt wrong. I could not be a "kept" man. But I know guys who do it.

I know short guy who nail incredibly beautiful women. I know tall guys. I know skinny guys and fat ones.

All of them exude the one thing eluding men who suck at this.

Confidence.

I mean, if you are right, what is there to complain about? Just go out and tackle one of these supposed objective measures. . . and somehow women will just roll in.

Or you can do what I did. . . and what most men who are successful at dating did. Improve your social skills and raise your level of self-esteem and confidence.

[inhua]

firstly you're putting words in my mouth. I never made any of the claims you're assuming I made plus you're making the mistaken of equalizing men and women. men and women are not the same. you're not disproving the data by using male and female experiences as the same.

women can get pregnant so they tend to be more picky and judgmental whereas men can not get pregnant and are thus less picky and judgmental. it's not that hard to see why the 80/20 rule exists.

and funny how everyone and their momma knows an ugly dude who lands Victoria Secret models all the time. the same tactic a lot of charlatan pickup artists use to scam their customers out of thousands of dollars by selling them false hope.

and confidence means jack shit when you've got nothing to show for it. at no point in history has any man with absolutely no value ever gotten a woman let alone a beautiful woman. if a dude is short, broke and ugly but he take down multiple armed thugs with both hands tied behind his back, he still has value.

a man with no value but confidence is just arrogant. if you don't believe me, look no further than Andrew Tate. if he had no value at all but kept running his mouth as he usually does, he'd still be a virgin today. nobody likes a trash talker who can't back up his claims. at least in today, as much as people hate him, Tate has every right to be proud and confident of his achievements whether it be a chess champion, a 4x kickboxing champion, millionaire, owner of cars, mansions and casinos, his genetics which results in him having a 500+ body count.

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, I am the one saying men and women are not the same.

What are you saying?

My whole point is that women have a different process for evaluating men than men have for evaluating women. You keep thinking that women have some logical objective process for choosing men.

Dude, women ain’t logical. They are not rational. Have you ever lived with one? I have lived with a whole lot of them.

WTF? Most women are not picky. Where in the world do you get this stuff from? If women constantly choose men who are unavailable, cheaters, bad guys, etc. how in the world are they being picky? They are bypassing men who could be faithful, men who would make excellent friends, good fathers, who make good salaries, to choose other men who are bad choices.

The reason why the 80/20 rule exists is because men have to do the hunting. We have to approach women, impress them, and get the date. Most do not go out trying to find men. They go out to be hit on.

We have so many men who feel frustrated when they have no success. And they feel there just isn’t anything they can do to improve their chances with good looking women. And I am here to say that is the biggest lie out in the dating world.

Haha! I know dozens of men with no value, who have nailed plenty of good looking women. Guys who can’t hold down a job. Dudes who cheat constantly. I have one friend who is a kept man. And his goal is to have sex with a woman in every state of the union.

The point is that women profess to hate Tate. Yet he gets more puddingtang in a day that most guys get in a years. And everything you say contradicts everything he has accomplished. Because in your estimation women are picky.

I just think you are hurt and confused.

[inhua]

"WTF? Most women are not picky. Where in the world do you get this stuff from? If women constantly choose men who are unavailable, cheaters, bad guys, etc. how in the world are they being picky? They are bypassing men who could be faithful, men who would make excellent friends, good fathers, who make good salaries, to choose other men who are bad choices."

because they're not selecting based on internal qualities like good morals and values only external qualities like height and good looks

"We have so many men who feel frustrated when they have no success. And they feel there just isn’t anything they can do to improve their chances with good looking women. And I am here to say that is the biggest lie out in the dating world."

there are ways for men to improve their chances with good looking women. we just disagree on the methods

"Haha! I know dozens of men with no value, who have nailed plenty of good looking women. Guys who can’t hold down a job. Dudes who cheat constantly. I have one friend who is a kept man. And his goal is to have sex with a woman in every state of the union."

I doubt any of those men have no value. whether he can hold down a job or not still shows that employers want him. being able to cheat shows that another woman sees value in him. I don't think you truly understand what it means to have no value.

"The point is that women profess to hate Tate. Yet he gets more puddingtang in a day that most guys get in a years. And everything you say contradicts everything he has accomplished. Because in your estimation women are picky."

nothing I said was contradicted. you're still under the assumption that internal qualities play a bigger role than external qualities.

[RolandCuthbert]

But they don't pick just guys who are tall or have good looks. They pick confident guys who approach them. Are you so naive you think women track down Andrew Tate? No, he approaches them. And he is confident, even arrogant and that attracts them.

As for your methods, again, there are many short, broke dudes, who get women. Good looking, successful women. And not only do they obtain these women, they cheat on the good looking women they get.

I know in my own situation. . . again, I was broke when my business failed. I couldn't even buy a bag of potato chips and women wanted to support me. The only external feature I have is I am tall. And I am only 6'1" maybe a little taller. But I never had a doubt I could date good looking women. And as I told you, posting my photo here got me a strong 4 out of 10.

I am just stating actual fact. I am not fantasizing about what I think attracts women to me.

[inhua]

actually women do sometimes track down men. movie stars, athletes and rappers are well known for having women come to them.

so you've admitted you are 6'1. there's your value there. and I'm sure those women are good looking according to you. someone else could have different opinion.

outliers don't disprove the norm. that is another fact. heck I can point out a 30+ year age gap relationship to prove a point but do the majority of relationships have 30+ year age gap? of course not. difference is, you're banking on possibility. I'm banking on probability

[RolandCuthbert]

But that isn't the majority. And the men they track down aren't men who are shy, with low self-esteem or lacking confidence.

They are men who are fully confident heterosexuals.

Yeah, I am over 6 feet. But I have friends who are much shorter and have had more success. It took me to get into my 20s before I got the hang of things. My childhood friend started when he was 16.

This is what I don't get. Why are you trying to convince yourself that there is nothing you can do?

What is the point in that? Is that masculine?

Nah, the probability is simply this. With no confidence in yourself, you will probably be alone.

[inhua]

"But that isn't the majority. And the men they track down aren't men who are shy, with low self-esteem or lacking confidence."

those men being tracked down have confidence because they have value.

"This is what I don't get. Why are you trying to convince yourself that there is nothing you can do? What is the point in that? Is that masculine?"

there are things that can be done plus everybody's situation is different. I simply disagree with your methods.

"Nah, the probability is simply this. With no confidence in yourself, you will probably be alone."

like I've said before. confidence comes from prior success. not something you can just conjure up out of nowhere unless you believe in the whole "fake it till you make it" which while it can work, can get these fakers into a lot of trouble. being realistic =/= no confidence

[Leopard23]

There is something to 80/20 rule with women, even overweight women and single mothers. Basically average women looking above average men and thinking they are above average themselves because they had one night stands with above average men and of course the legions of simping idiots worshipping them because they have a vagina.

The answer to this problem is not to simp, become an angry incel or bitter MGTOW guy but to be that 20%er guy or at least shoot for it. This is what worked for me.

[RolandCuthbert]

But you, like me found a way through the forest. We are talking to these younger dudes. . . and they are stuck in it. They actually believe women hold all the power.

It is so weird!

[Leopard23]

Exactly. You gotta take yourself from bitch to bull.
When people told Trump he'd never amount to anything did he listen? No he got a small loan from his father and built a company from scratch.
When people said you just can't go around grabbing women by the pussy did he listen? No he grabbed multiple women sometimes two at a time by the pussy.
When ivanka trump said not tonight did he listen? If he did we wouldn't have the heir apparent Eric Trump.
When people said you can't speak to Putin during an election did he listen?
When people said you can't pretend covid 19 doesn't exist did he listen? No he did not.
When people said you have to accept election results and not start an instruction did he listen? No.
When people said you can't make America great again he didn't listen either. Now it's greater than ever.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't know about the trump references. Trump built a reality show. All his businesses were failures.

Women like him because his is confident/arrogant and aggressive. It isn't because he is successful. I know plenty of dudes who are failures at business, at being fathers, at being just reliable decent human beings. . .

but they still get women.

That's the point.

These young dudes, think it is tied to some objective measure they can simply calculate.

They can be successful lonely dudes. Because that ain't the draw.

[Guy13]

I deal with people everyday from foreign currencies, Welfare/S-8, university students, to CEOs. I see as many people as there are checking accounts in our system Everyone, globally, has to have a place to rent.

The common factor amongst all the whiners and 80-/20 Rule are:

poor credit, sometimes criminal, poor life and income status in THEIR mind, and their Parents told them they are good as they are and everyone should except them and cater to them as they are. That is the bottom line.

Outliers being super successful with so many quirks that everyone's radar goes off..."something ain't right about this person"

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't get this. Did you read the question? You mean 80% of men have poor credit, are criminals, and their parents told them they are as good as they are or some nonsense?

What in the sideways fuck just happened?

[LazerBean]

Actually I think he's saying that the whiny boys who bitch about the supposed 80/20 rule tend to believe the way they do because they would rather blame their problems on everyone else than accept that the reason nobody wants them is because they are from the ass of society.

[RolandCuthbert]

@LazerBean @guy13 Hey, if he meant that, then I will apologize. But it sure didn't seem like it. I thought the statement might have been about something generational or something else. Not about men in general.

Because the question again, is about who or what women think is desirable when it comes to men or being masculine.

But I will let him explain. Because this was confusing.

[RolandCuthbert]

@LazerBean I just deleted that nonsense. I guess this is some kind of troll-stalker.

Those guys are really, really embarrassing.

[LazerBean]

Aww I missed it, who was it?

[RolandCuthbert]

@LazerBean I just did not want to see that mess. A bunch of usual insults about your looks, then no one wants to date you, even though you are obviously engaged, etc.

Just a bunch of trollish nonsense.

[RolandCuthbert]

@LazerBean Oh shoot, I forgot. you asked who it was. i can't even remember! Haha!!!

[LazerBean]

Dang I wish I could have seen it, my husband and I get a kick out of reading what the seething rejects have to say. Thank you for being thoughtful, though, I appreciate it.

[Guy13]

Yeah, sorry for rambling but LazerBran got me.

[RolandCuthbert]

@guy13 Why are you mad with her? ?

[Guy13]

No. Lazer Bean got me as in UNDERSTOOD the original post as I meant it. Sorry for all the confusion.

[jennifer_bloom]

A woman dates a man because of his commitment to her and her children, if she dated a guy for his sex appeal, honest and hardworking guys would get cheated on for lazy guys who contribute nothing to the woman’s life just because he looked better than the hard working guy. The system we have is better than other possibilities.

[RolandCuthbert]

Maybe this is how you feel. But I don't think this is the way most women think. Or at least it isn't the way most women behave, based upon the results they complain about. As for your comment that hard-working guys would cheated on, I am not sure where the comment comes from. The point is that many women feel, most men are not in their league based on attractiveness.

Can you answer that? Like you have seen my photo and the photo of other men here. Based upon attractiveness, are most men in your league?

[jennifer_bloom]

I prefer guys who look like they are close to my age but almost everybody has some ability to get a quality that could bring me to Starbucks for a conversation.

[RolandCuthbert]

That is not an answer.

Are most men, in your league from an attractiveness standpoint?

Why are so many women so evasive when it comes to this question?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iABS9kChUfs&t=956s

[jennifer_bloom]

It’s like a double tequila question after a serving of scotch - saying yes means your unattractive, saying no means your a snob.

[RolandCuthbert]

What is so hard about that?

I have said and always will say the vast majority of women are attractive. And if most men are supposedly shallow. . . why is it so hard for you to admit, that maybe you are too? No one is perfect. . . and no one has to be either.

[jennifer_bloom]

Caring about basic biological markers of health and fitness does not mean you are spiritually or romantically shallow, it means you calculate unfairly distributed provisions and characteristics when calculating who you believe is the best partner for marriage.

[RolandCuthbert]

I never said it did. There are guys who only date supermodel types. There are guys who only date blondes.

No one can help who they are attracted to. But you won't make a simple statement about whether or not you find the majority of men attractive.

And that is really, really strange.

[jennifer_bloom]

I can only find one person attractive enough for marriage at a time because I do not have the emotional variability to desire more than one man but almost any man can do something that would cause me to consider them for a brief coffee conversation.

[4ngelic]

nah its not true. the 80/20 comes from a dating site survey thing. on dating sites it's been found that most men there are unattractive (like for real not just in women's eyes) or very very average looking. better looking average guys and good looking guys are found to use stuff like tinder less often than less hot guys. for girls though the hotness levels are a bit evened out but with a bit more cute girls than not cute girls. ugly girls weren't likely to use dating apps though too. also there is almost like the double of hot girls vs hot guys in general too. so like imagine most guys on dating apps look bad and most girls are better than them, those guys are going to have a hard time. irl though it's not like that though, most regular guys get pussy & girlfriends. not like 8s but girls of more the same level though. but yea its not all the pussy for chad. besides do you not look around you like the vast vast majority of average looking guys have fucked multiple girls and dated a couple times (minus the very socially ackward guys) and even the slighlty unattractive guys dont tend to virgins past college. i've known chubby guys and stuff who dating around and stuff so it's not like that at all though but no need to even think about it cause it's just common sense that it's not like that

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, you know the story of GaG. We have a lot of involuntary celibate males here. They are alone and have not had sex.

The truth is probably that large numbers of males do not have sex very often or have not had sex at all.

But maybe more than 20%. In any event, this anger they feel is real. And I think it is getting to the point where it will become a destructive force in our society.

Because, it makes them feel less masculine.

[Alessa13]

If this is true, makes me wonder why it changed? Is it because women used to go for the 80% if they could provide and be stable for them in a relationship and living to raise children? If so, does that mean 80% of men are not stable and worthy of that because so many say women simply want them for their money.

Isn't that exactly what women wanted in the 1950's, men for their money so they could survive and be home makers and raise the kids?

I think I will try that as an experiment though, next time I go out. I often think of numbers in my head so I'll look at men and think if I find 8 out of each 10 unattractive and try to keep a mental scorecard to see how I personally view it.

As for your questions.

1. Does it bother you if a man has had a lot of different women in his past or has is currently dating a lot of other women when he approaches you?

Yes it does bother me.

2. What about men with no previous sexual experience? Are they worth at least going out on a few dates to see if you have anything compatible?

I have done this before, everyone has to start somewhere and if everyone ignores those without experience, how do they get started? Often I only make it to two dates. I hope that gives them a little bit of a starting place.

3. What about dating a male friend? Even if you go out just go have a good time, instead of focusing on romance?

I have done this before too, sometimes hanging out with a male friend you can fall in love with them romantically and start to see them as more than a friend. Even if all you do is hang out together in a non romantical way.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't know if this is actually accurate. This was pulled from the more popular dating sites. I mean, I am wondering how accurate this is. Since I know I am not in the 20% of good looking guys. I posted my photo here. And didn't get back much positive feedback. And the little I did, came from a guy.

:D

1. Hmmmm. . . interesting. But you do think a man need experience with sex in order to date you, right?

2. Understood. At least you entertain the thought.

3. Wow. I don't think I have ever met a woman talking about friendship in this way.

But thanks for responding. It is great to have rational conversations without shouting and insults.

[Alessa13]

Ideally would be a man with similar experience level. I don't think he needs experience at all, as I have no issues teaching him if he has less than me.

I don't want someone who has 3x or more sexual partners than me though.

[RolandCuthbert]

That sound reasonable.

Thanks again!

[DiegoO]

There are tons of factors to consider.

1) Demography: socio-cultural and socio-economic characteristics.

2) Individual: family dynamics, mental health state, physical state.

3) Geography: place of residence and accessibility.

4) Human biology

That proportion can be true or not, depending of the region you live.

[RolandCuthbert]

Hmmmm. . . I guess. Just waiting for more women to chime in. Because only they can tell us, if the average guy is attractive.

On the flip side, I just think most women are cute, gorgeous, beautiful or sexy.

[DiegoO]

That's true. Only they can give the answer. But, from what I remember in our species, women's are usually the ones who incite the attraction, and us, men's, are the ones who do the courtship.

[RolandCuthbert]

Absolutely. And maybe that's the issue. It isn't like women are going out and asking men for dates.

[DiegoO]

Exactly

[TonyV]

Yeah it's real, tho it mat be mote like 90/10 now with how many think they need a man who makes at least 6 figures, or it could just be a vocal minority of crazy women.

[RolandCuthbert]

I guess I had a hard time with this idea because I am definitely not in the 20%. And though I make a some money, that has only been within the last ten years or so.

I think when it comes to dating, women are not really a reliable source for figuring out who or what they are attracted to. A more reliable source is men who are good at getting women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3zDhtBeZmk

[NathanDavis]

people feeling entitled to sex... are their own problem

[RolandCuthbert]

I would tend to agree. And it is hard to talk to males who really feel that they can't change their fate.

It actually makes me feel helpless. Why can't they just figure out how to overcome their social awkwardness? It just takes practice.

[NathanDavis]

I can relate to that... out of the people I've talked about this both in person and also online... probably one out of six or seven are actually open and willing to put some effort, and pretty much, that's what it took for them, the willing to practice and to try... the very few who tried just needed a bit of reassurance but the majority of them, they just won't even try and keep finding excuses to not even try in the first place

[slatyb]

And yet, somehow, more than 20% of women have partners.

[RolandCuthbert]

That's true. I know, the numbers do see off. It is weird that us older guys don't see the dating game the same way as the younger ones.

[JamesRandiDebates]

More like 90/10.

[RolandCuthbert]

I keep hearing this. But I don't feel like I am in the 10%. I feel like a regular guy who just figured out how to have more success with women.

But let's just say this is true. What would be the issues that follow from this? From my perspective, if this is true, our society is doomed. Because we would have so many angry young males wondering around society, due to lack of sex.

[JamesRandiDebates]

Females ride the carousel as long as they can, but if they aren't top tier themselves they end up settling for guys they feel are beneath them. They hate the guys they settle for, and they hate themselves for not being able to land top tier guys. Which is why the majority of women over 30 are on anti-psychotic meds and are so quick to cheat and divorce.

[RolandCuthbert]

This what I don't get. If a female is not top tier. . . how the heck is she dating guys beneath her? What you saying does not make any sense. Women cheat more nowadays, but still nowhere near as much as men.

Besides that has nothing to do with 80/20. I think you just want to come to the question and whine about stuff.

[JamesRandiDebates]

ALL women believe they are top tier.

[Anonymous]

No. It's probably closer to 90/10.

[RolandCuthbert]

I got this answer already.

Do you truly believe you can't change your luck with women?

[Opinion Owner]

That a vague question in relation to what we're talking about.
Absolutely I believe I can improve my odds with women. But to those women that have "types" and I don't fit that type. No, with those women I have NO shot. It really doesn't matter what I do. This is a hard lesson for guys to learn. Not every woman is created equal. And women typically do not say what they're attracted to. So guys have to learn how to deduce this. And don't waste ANY time on those women they have NO shot with. Because those women still like attention. They still soak it up like a sponge. And when they're full of the adulation. Then they'll tell the guy they're not interested.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't know how you young guys made this so confusing. First you say that women have types and you have no shot if you don't the type.

But then you say that women keep that fact a secret. But in their mind they have a set fixed picture of what they want.

And I am telling you that is nonsense.

Most women have no idea about what they want. That's why so many get into relationships with horrible men.

I don't understand why guys here, think women have some upperhand. It is just the weirdest thing I have ever seen.