Discussion: Encouraging women to work in jobs they don't want to do of their own accord.


I think this is a very controversial topic but some of the arguments that are brought forth just don't make sense to me.

I watched this video and this guy makes good content sometimes but this video I couldn't agree with what he was saying. I totally believe that there are guys who get mad when a girl beats them at a game and I know that online gaming can be toxic. But is that really the reason why there are no pro gamers that are women? Let's look at jobs like actress, model and Kpop idol is anyone going to tell me that those industries are easy to work in?

This is just 2 examples from Kpop because I followed this a lot. There have been numerous occasions where an idol has accidentally or maybe they just didn't care worn something with the Japanese rising sun flag and this results in huge backlash because Korea was one of the nations that Japan wanted to have as part of their empire.

People will put you down for your looks, if you're dating someone, if you're not contributing enough to the groups success etc. Also another example there was an idol that was 16 and they were on a show introducing themselves because they just started out and one of them was from Taiwan and the TV staff gave her a flag from Taiwan and this caused an international scandal and she was forced to read an apology on camera because the company was interested in making money in China and didn't want to piss them off.

Additionally there have been scandals where both male and female idols have been sexually abused and exploited. Oh by the way there was also reports of sexual harassment at Blizzard but somehow there's a ton of female game developers too.

But women flock to these jobs and there's so many applicants to train as an idol that the competition is extremely fierce. To me it seems like women as a whole are not as interested in being a pro gamer as they are in being an idol or a model or an actress. And that's alright. Is it really mean comments online and salty men who can't lose that are keeping women from becoming pro gamers or are there just not enough women who want to do this and want to do it badly enough to put up with the hassle?

I just feel like people spread this narrative that any business where women are not doing well it's because they're not being encouraged enough. Even in the video the examples he brought up 2 of the women are streamers and it doesn't matter how hard they work as streamers it's not the same as being a pro gamer. It's not even close to the same thing.

Nobody encouraged men to play video games and compete in them it was always seen as something losers do but they did it anyway. And a pro gaming scene naturally formed around it as time went on because there was a steady flow of men who wanted to do this even when the pay was bad the lifestyle was terrible and there was no fame or glory in it men wanted to do it. And that's how it grew. There are a lot of women who play online games and most that I meet seem pretty used to dealing with the occasional douchebag.

I'm not trying to justify or defend being an asshole online I'm just saying seeing toxicity as the cause of every difference in representation in a field just seems like you're making it very easy on yourself and it fits nicely into a narrative that you already want to promote. But does it actually have anything to do with reality? Can you say it's men's fault that there are not enough women in pro gaming? I doubt that but you can write your opinion in the comments below.

Thank you for reading

Discussion: Encouraging women to work in jobs they don't want to do of their own accord.
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  • spuitkaas
    So I will try to keep this somehow short, because I could talk about it for hours. Mind you I don't know much about esports.

    - Women are less stimulated from childhood to do gaming, since it's more of a guy's thing. So guys might have a front start, since it's a skill you can develop. Also rather do interests that are more expected of them.
    - harassment in games starts already at the beginning of gaming where many women will just stop or play offline instead going through. Causes less women to be gamers in general, especially professional gamers.
    - bias from people in the gaming industry giving more opportunity to people who they recognize themselves in and most people on the top in the gaming industry are men. So men choose men.
    - women having to work a lot harder than men to be taken seriously and adapting how they present themselves to be taken seriously, since women are harshly judged on their appearance.
    - staying on top is hard, because of potential harassment and maybe you want a family and work parttime. Many women are still expected to do most of childcare. Missing out on opportunities because they don't work fulltime.
    - game devices not made for the female body so women getting more injured (mouse cramps for example).
    - maybe there is a biological/psychological difference in men and women somewhere that makes men better at certain games (I must say, I believe this component is often very small. I think there's more difference between individuals than sexes and I actually study medical sciences).

    Not short but okay. Apply this to every profession where women are underrepresented. This also often accounts for men in many female dominated areas, however then you also often have the glass elevator effect.
    Like 1 Person
    • PAcc92

      - "Women are less stimulated from childhood to do gaming, since it's more of a guy's thing"

      Gaming emerged as a "Reject" behavior, people who did it were mocked, and most still are. Women are not used to being mocked and rejected by society because society coddles and protects them. Women are the most privileged human beings in the western world.

      - harassment in games starts already at the beginning of gaming

      Women are raised to view all other human life as inferior to them, they are told they are perfect, unable to be criticized or flawed in any way. They view men and boys as subhuman "Oppressors", due to their upbringing they are mentally unable to face reality and take real criticism. This is female privilege manifesting itself. A female only draft in which young women were enslaved for war like young men and had to see the hopes and dreams of their "sisters" blown all over their faces would help rectify this, as women would begin to understand male suffering and male disposability in society.

      - bias from people in the gaming

      Men and boys are 90% of work place deaths, the entirety of those enslaved for war (women shamed men who survived war, in their "White feather" campaigns), 80% of suicides, 3/4ths of the homeless. And there's actually women whining about hurt fee fees in gaming, you are evidence women are incapable of empathy towards boys and men.

      - "women having to work a lot harder than men to be taken seriously and adapting how they present themselves to be taken seriously, since women are harshly judged on their appearance."

      Please go choke to death on mustard gas or in a coal mine, be crushed by an I-Beam like all the men who "Oppress" you, you whiny worthless cunt who contributes nothing to society.

      God women are so whiny and fucking pathetic, what utter trash.

    • spuitkaas

      I don't think gaming is reject behaviour. Especially not while being a teenager. Most guys played shooters together as teenagers. Maybe more fantasy games like WOW, but other than that, the cool guys played call of duty. Women and men get socialized differently.
      Harassment =/= criticism. Maybe some women are not used to the harsh language used in gaming communities, especially when they haven't grown up with it, however, studies have shown women receive more harassment in gaming than men. So it's not just subjectively.

      - bias from people in the gaming
      No idea how this was relevant to this point. You go on about war, but we haven't been forced to war in a long time? I don't support drafting only men for war in general so I don't know why you bring up war. It's terrible that men commit more suicide, but that's not because of women. Same thing with the homelessness. As a feminist I also care about ways men are disadvantaged in nowadays system as well so I think that is pretty empathetic.
      Unlike you who literally called me the most horrible things. What would your mom think about that? About all of these things you said? Women are moms, your sisters, cousins, etc. Why don't you want them to be treated equally?

  • purplepoppy
    A gamer isn't a proper job. True a tiny percentage might make a living but try telling your career adviser that. I wonder how many teens clocking up 8 hours of games practice a night use that excuse for skipping homework "sorry sir. I was too busy killing aliens to do maths but one day it'll get me a job"
    • Lynx122

      Yes for most people that is true but that was just the video that made me think about this topic. What I meant to say was if as many women wanted to be pro gamers as want to be idols and trained as hard then there would be at least 30% women in pro gaming. And that's probably also true for other areas where women are underrepresented. I'm not saying there are not other factors at play but I feel like how many people want something and how badly they want it is a really big factor that just gets ignored in these discussions.

  • ChrisMaster69
    The entire E Sports sector is very toxic.

    some of it is covered by the following link.

    A huge amount is psychological and is built into games,

    a large number of actual games sexualise the female characters or rather representation of female characters.

    How many guys would play a game if their character was a skinny ugly runt?

    would the game sell well versus the same game with a hunky muscled character?

    Disagree 2 People
  • boobliker
    i do like to see a nice women on screen don't you?
  • Anonymous
    People try to solve problems that don’t really exist, and they have the wrong priorities.

    Let’s say that the idea behind pushing for equal treatment of women was to enable women to do what they want to do without being refused the opportunity just because they’re women, things which they already want to do and which would make them feel happy or fulfilled. That makes sense.

    To feminists, when they see that women don’t freely choose to do something, they see that as a problem and try to fix it. Rather than barriers for women being lifted and giving women equal opportunity, forcing a 50/50 outcome becomes the new goal. Even if that means trying to convince people to do things they wouldn’t normally or naturally want to do.

    Another big lie many people have been taught to believe today is that almost everything we do is a result of social conditioning and not biology, and to some of those people that I just said “naturally” might even offend them. Every single explanation you’ll see will have something to do with the “problem” of social conditioning, they speak as though there are no biological differences between men and women at all. I mean they like to sound smart but they have zero common sense.
    Helpful 1 Person