Obviously I don't lol but feel free to share if you do. Also sorry about the the memes but they made me laugh.
No I dont
Yes. Because... reasons
Triggered! How dare you question the validity of my gender/women's studies degree
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I'm suprised the majority of women don't think they are valid degrees.
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77% say no
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A very popular question much thanks to all who responded
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Lots of responses thanks to all.
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Update 3
Do you consider Gender and Women's studies are valid degrees to be studied at College?
It's a valid degree. There's just not much of a job market for it. It's the same as why I decided to switch from physics to a doible major in physics and computer science. Physics is a valid degree but the job market is a lot smaller than computer science. I don't see the point of going into a degree that has small job market and then complain that you can't really use your degree anywhere.
I see a gender studies degree more useful if it goes along with another degree. Kind of like how I see math as a good second degree or something to pair with in a double major. Don't get me wrong, I think knowing mathematics is one of the most important and useful things that you could know but it's more or less is better used to support a lot of other skills. Though the differenc ebetween math and gender studies is that I'm pretty sure a math degree alone can open more doors than a gender studies degree alone.
Gender Studies I kind of see like the arts. Yeah it's good and useful to study, thouh I wouldn't go to university for it (animation may be an acception for the arts if you know you have an in somewhere). Also I feel like the arts, and gender studies is somehting that could be learned at home and also you don't need a degree to open doors (just a lot of luck).
Honestly, I think its valid for gender studies to be a valid major. HOWEVER, some of the facts used in gender studies are actually heavily flawed. The gender studies field is a relatively new field and a branch of sociology, psychology, etc. The studies need to be heavily challenged and critiqued. Any changes in the academic community for research never reach to the public or education until 3-5 years later. This means... The current text book of knowledge for women studies can be thrown out the door in the academic field while the public is fed with this bs. However, the public has been proven to be heavily ignorant on the subject matter.
I mean I can go on all day of how contradicting some things are said by SOME proclaimed feminists. However, the general idea of feminism has been tainted by the negative stereotype that generally only represents a small percentage of the community.
Also, I hear this argument a lot. "this doesn't happen to me." I mean, I laugh at this comment a lot. What people don't understand is how the population communicates on different multiple levels. In the school of communication, they recognize these levels: international communication, national communication, group to group interaction, group self interaction, individual to individual interaction, self interaction, etc (I know I'm missing a few more).
From my last point, what I'm trying to say is.. The overall set is international interaction > national, group to group, individual to individual, self interaction, etc etc. Yes it may not happen to you but it could happen to some one else. If it happens a lot then there's a problem. Hence why gender studies need to exist to sort these issues.
1) if you plan to teach it at the university/college level; 2) if you plan to combine it with hr training.
at my university, you're only allowed to take a limited # of wgst courses as electives toward your degree.
at some point, the people who take these courses will get to the real world and realize that
1) people don't care about your feelings, and 2) you wasted your time because your degree has no practical application, beyond the scenarios i mentioned above.
i took sociology last term to fill a degree requirement, staying far away from political science and wgst. but he had this feminist sjw in our class who started an all-out war... she was in my discussion group as well; i called her out on many dunderheaded statements she made, and the rage was so delicious it shouldn've been fattening.
If we don't study the accomplishments of women, we get the idea that they have never accomplished anything, and then we begin to believe that women are worthless apart from being baby factories. Marie Curie, who discovered radiation (and died for her contributions to science) was never properly acknowledged until women's studies became a thing. Ada Lovelace is the mother of modern computing, we still use her algorithms, and yet she has not been acknowledged as such.
It's valuable, in the way that all study of history is valuable. It's just that women are getting a hand in writing it now.
Yes but as a woman in STEM what would be your chances of finding employment with only a gender or women's studies degree, I don't disagree that these things should be studied I just personally don't think they are worth the price of a college education and the years spent studying them. Sure if your a privledged aristocrat like Ada Lovelace and also happen to be a genius you don't have to worry about paying for your education or putting bread on the table.
@Bryanwoodfire I mean i know so many people working in fast food joints five years after college, like what was the point. I mean what kind of job can a gender/womens get you, maybe there are too many doing it.
I never said it was my question merely asked "Do you consider Gender and Women's studies are valid degrees to be studied at College?". You didn't have to answer and I have a right to ask after all this isn't a fascist state.
astoriana do you really think those are the only accomplished women I know then you are mistaken I was only providing the first example that popped into my mind because she's a really good example
I have the most normal school, no crazy sjw bullshit, in central Europe. We were taught about Marie Curie in chemistry and physics and about Ada Lovelace ("the first programmer") in English and I think History as well.
It's not because of sexism that we aren't taught about women as much. It's because for quite some times it was very unusual for women to largely participate in science.
@BornIntoThis I'm an engineering student in my masters year and there are genuinely no female students. Engineers make the world turn, not my fault no females
@yucel_eden if the culture of engineering is hostile to women, very few will go into it in favour of something more welcoming. I am lucky to have a supportive union and a supportive family. Most others are not.
@BornIntoThis which one of us actually knows what they're talking about? The undergrad with no worldly experience? Or the engineer with two degrees actually working in the field? Hmm... I wonder.
Literally quoting my union rep on why less than 30% of female engineering grads are licensed engineers by the age of 30: there is not enough support for women in STEM.
Ad Hominem all the way! I don't have a degree, therefore what I say is wrong! Well done Ms. Engineer, lol. Yes, we should encourage girls just as much as boys to go into STEM fields. But just because there's less of them, that doesn't mean it's "sexist" and "focken patriarchy".
I worked as an engineer for Nissan before. About 10 in 100 engineers engineers were women. The reason why that number is so high (relatively to uni percentage) is that every female with an engineering degree gets accepted automatically to boost female numbers. Then females in a team will always be promoted regardless of how stupid or inept they are. Simply because they came across a female engineer for once.
Women do get support. There's a government incentive that woman who study engineering in the uk top 10 unis get something like a 27k grant which men don't. Which is a lot by the way on top of what everyone gets. Woman also get support unlike men in my degree.
In my undergrad we started with something like 10 females (238 guys) and almost all managed to graduate as compared to the 80 guys.
The problem is that woman and men's brains do the same job differently through chemicals but the male method suits STEM subjects more than women.
This is exactly what feminists do. Men on average earn more than women. Boom, SEXIST! Who cares you the reasons? There are more men in STEM fields than women. SEXIST! Who cares about why it is that way? Guess what, 90% of work deaths are male and I don't run around screaming "sexism". Women get the child custody in 80% of the cases and I don't call that sexism (even though that might be actually sexist). But feminists, anything that's not in favor of women is sexism to them.
Woman are better at non STEM subjects naturally while men are better st STEM.
What we need to do is inspire more young woman to take an interest in engineering at an early age. All the depictions of engineers in the media are men. Which is not a bad thing as all engineers in real life are also men. Almost all engineering breakthroughs are from men.
@yucel_eden Thank you for actually bringing up something interesting, since all she brought up was "You're an undergrad" and "literally quoting this guy"..
For example women earning doctoral degrees in psychology outnumber men three to one. I don't call that sexism. They're just naturally more likely to be better. It's not sexism, just like men being naturally more likely to succeed in STEM is natural.
@BornIntoThis the so-called learning differences have been debunked. The differences between men and women in terms of thought patterns are not so vast. That is why psychology is applicable to more than just one group, even for general studies.
I tire of you stupid children twittering about things I have not mentioned.
The topic of discussion for my union this past month was support of women in STEM. You don't have to agree that there is no support for women in engineering - I am the one living it. I will thank you to shut the fuck up about things you have not studied and do not understand.
Just throwing this out there. If you go into computer science ada lovelace has been mentioned multiple times as the mother of modern computing. Well at least at my university she's been acknowledged multiple times in some classes. Her name doesn't get mentioned in the formal proof theoretical courses because that was George Boole.
there's a difference between acknowledging the achievements of an individual and inflating the accomplishments of a group. studying history through an ideological lens where only women's contributions matter is exactly as wrong as doing so for men. we used to regard history as part of "the humanities". that was as it should be, and we are now moving away from that equality, based on a continuous fiction that some grievous historical imbalance still exists, when in fact it is being created.
@androcentrist wrong. I can tell from your username that you are biased to believe that women are not valuable. Goodbye, as I do not debate with brick walls.
No. I think "gender" just needs to die. 9/10 "feminists" are whiney hypocrites spewing double standards all over the place, and these MGTOW are just butt hurt that no one wants to accept them for who they are, like all the feminists keep expecting us to do for them.
Ladies, you wanted equality, so pay for the damn date!
Men, you're tired of being used, so quit bitching about your manhood if she wants you pay!
The obvious answer is yes because if they weren't valid degrees then you would't be able to major in it. But a lot of Universities actually have Women's Studies as a certificate program, not a major itself.
And you actually can do a lot with Women's Studies. All Women's Studies programs and degrees mean that you specialized in a certain focus in history. That degree qualifies you for several further degree programs like law school, counseling, politics, and education. But what most people fail to do who have such a concise focus is actually network with people in this area to help them get a job.
any jobs you can qualify for with that degree don't actually need doing, and only exist to enable twits with no useful skills to suck money out of the economy.
@androcentrist I didn't say it was the only degree that qualified you for those jobs, just that they aren't useless because it does qualify you for something. Lol
So basically if another degree qualifies you for something then that degree is useless? That's illogical because then by default a lot of other degrees would useless too.
@BasilBrushSays sandwich making can be a pretty lucrative career and buisness career for a person more so than gender or women's studies. My sister did not go to college and has done well making sandwiches.
The fact that a university offers a degree doesn't mean it's a legitimate area of study, it means they can get a bunch of people to pay them $150-200,300. Why is it that no one looks critically at the universities and what they are doing to our country? Because they run public opinion. Not mine.
You can major in Medieval basket weaving as well, but that doesn't make it a valid degree for success in the 21st century. And certainly doesn't justify going $80,000 in debt to accomplish. Anything you care to know about "Women's Studies" can be found for free on the internet. If you borrow a small fortune to pay for that information, you are too stupid to be in college anyway.
You are right Elarra... but most people a.) don't really grasp the real purpose of degrees, and b.) they don't know about the hordes of people walking around with FAKE degrees that they bought from degree mills. Why not ask about those instead of something people actually have to work for.
@Bezbozhnikustanka the provide infastructure for medicine, community, education and charity. Your doctor was likely educated by a Catholic school in the third world.
I'd stay away from any of those degrees that aren't realistic and/or practical simply because I just don't have lots of $$$ and time to invest in them. I can see majors like those meant for those people that have lots of money and won't really even need financial aid or scholarships to begin with. As for validity? I really don't care. In the real world for finding professional work and finding real jobs, it's gonna be very difficult since it's not one of those more practical or realistic skills or trades or majors, unless you're gonna become a college professor or something and teach those same relevant things you've learned from those type of majors or similar, and IIRC this and any kind of "studies" type of majors are liberal arts which is not practical or efficient for the real business or professional world. So I think that it makes more sense to go for a S. T. E. M. or business relevant major, or some other practical real-life real-world skills or trade kind of training instead especially if your time and your money is precious and you don't have too much of it. As in more importantly, you're gonna need income and a job to pay back any debts you owe, so just think about what that means.
A legit degree? sure. some people study religions in depth and that *while useful in a Historical sense* is complete bullshit.
then again what exactly is a degree? "an academic rank conferred by a college or university after examination or after completion of a course of study or conferred as an honor on a distinguished person."
anything that has been written and can be taught or understood regardless of truth or use is able to be granted as a degree. a degree just means you passed their system of books and such and have enough knowledge to hold some value in that field. even if the field is totally useless. just look at art. the majority of it is shit not many will make anything off it and yet you can get a degree in decoding the meaning behind random blotches of paint.
the better question is should we allow retards to spend upwards of 40k dollars for a useless piece of paper and knowledge? even if it was 100% free and gave out free mugs and girl scout cookies for completing I would not waste a minute of my time reading anything on it as I value my brain's storage space more than such knowledge.
I find it sad as a society we allow places to fuck over retards who don't know any better so much and place them in so much debt for paying for such useless knowledge. don't get me wrong we should not carry their debt but they should not even be able to get into debt for such a branch, to begin with. college should only offer courses that hold actual use and hold demand unless that person holds top-tier grades and can afford all of it out of pocket
Well as a guy I can chime in on this subject, I have dated girls in high school/university, the majority of my family members are girls/women, I have 3 older sisters and no brothers and I took women's studies in university last year and got a B+.
I think women's studies or to get a degree in that field is valid but it's kind of like having a degree from your undergrad psychology program. Just to have an undergrad pysch degree is not enough, I believe you should expand your career goals/education with a degree that involves a specific program. Think about being a teacher one day, a professor, a psychologist, women's studies should NOT be viewed as negative feminist behavior in society today.
The only time I disagree with girls/women who use feminism is when they use it as something to belittle men, get their own way or act like bi-polar sociopaths. Because if girls/women do that, you are no different pointing finger at every guy/man in society who has scorned you or other women.
I don't act that way, I am a liberal minded guy, who believes in equality and fairness. I want to be a lawyer 1 day, if I have my own firm, I am not going to assume that men are more aggressive and know how to talk in better legal terms then women, because I know plenty of girls who have gone to law school and busted their ass to get their law degree and kudos to them.
But to girls/women, just understand I accept women's studies and pushing for feminism (in terms of growth, equality, respect) but don't do it in a sense where you belittle a man below you and you laugh by saying "Haha, I totally emasculated him, busted him right in his manhood" because I'm the boss! That's stupid, that's not empowerment, that's being a bitch, just keeping it real.
@JenSCDC It was fine, it was nothing too complexed. My professor was also female, obviously, a woman would teach a women's studies course, if a man did that would be kind of odd. It basically highlighted different speech patterns/phrases women used, communication and etc.
I think as long as people communicate and be honest there shouldn't be a barrier of misunderstanding between a guy or girl, man or woman. I understand girls/women want to be pampered and treated like a princess, for a guy to protect them. That if her needs are validated, she will say things like "I'm fine". As a guy, if I am not fine, I will be blunt and say, yo honestly no I'm not, my work is pissing me off, this happened, I got this shit with family... whatever the case is, be direct that's my opinion.
Honestly, no offense to anyone but I don't really consider that as a degree. Well, I also don't consider most social science programs to be a major. They're rather hobbies for people. I think real majors are engineering, medicine/dentistry/nursing, science (physics, chemistry, biology, math, psychology), law, and economics. Rest is kind of garbage, and unnecessary.
Not even remotely, can you make a viable career out of it? Can you have a stable future with it? Is it practical? Does it make money? Does it wrack up debt and or waste daddies money?
No No No No Yes
Final verdict it's a worthless degree and shouldn't even be considered a degree honestly.
Pretty much all the gender studies "degree" graduates are either working at starbucks, a fast food joint or are back living at home, jobless. I could almost guarantee you that none of them have a stable and viable career and future using their gender studies "degrees"
I don't know much about women's studies to make a full unbiased opinion. But, I say it anyway haha, the validity of a degree is in the eye of the beholder. Like, to me that degree wouldn't be valid because I would probably take a class in women's studies, but I wouldn't major in it because that's not what i want to focus on in my life, but for some women, that IS what they wanna do their whole lives so to them is valid. To each their own.
But if we're talking about the worth of the degree, like how much are they investing in the degree and how much they get back in return (money wise, employment wise, etc) that's a whole other story because worth can actually be measured and it's factual. Is it worth it? I'm not sure because I never considered women's studies a degree to ever research it to find that out.
I haven't seen jobs that center around gender and women studies in particular. So it'd seem like a waste of money. I could possibly see it offered as a course, and women and gender studies be and elective or something if you're majoring in psychology or law or something. Not to sound misogynistic but I can imagine someone saying, "Majored in women's study's in college. I know about women." But, it'll be as far as they'd get in a conversation because there's not really a stand alone job for "gender and women's studies" unless there are jobs, and I have been living under a rock.
Do I view degrees in thinks like women's or gender studies to be degrees that make any sense to put so much time and money intro getting, after wondering about whether or not a job even exists which has such certification or requirements? Nope.
By all means, have that farce - the only issue I see is that if a student who's not going in those fields, is paying to keep the school afloat, some of that money goes to supporting "studies" in those fields. That's the only issue in my opinion.
If they can "teach" these things in faculties that do not live off of the same budget the others do for each university, then, by all means, waste some people's time. If you're not stupid, you don't have to worry about involving yourself there.
Anyone who goes to college without a clear idea of how their college education is going to help them to further their career life is just wasting their time and should drop out immediately in my opinion.
College education is only useful when you know how to apply it. Way too many people go to college because it is "the next step in life" or simply because they want to delay real life responsibilities for a couple more years.
Is it a valid degree? Sure, just like degrees in religion, philosophy, English, etc are. That doesn't mean it's actually useful though. I've never heard of anyone getting a BA in women's studies actually putting that degree to use in their careers. To be honest, it's probably the most useless degree program out there.
I don't see them as valid degree. Why? Because it has no real world application expect to whine and groan and talk about inequality and how gender is all fluid which it isn't. They want equality? Go after a real degree, and get a real job. It's a total waste of time and resources and I am surprised it's even a thing.
My dad said he has lots of fellow nerd friends who majored in medieval history, making them currently without a proper job. I think that taking classes in these studies is relevant and good, but it cannot be the focus of a career because frankly it doesn't cover enough ground to allow you to be successful in any way.
if you got a degree in Sasquatch hunting, all you'd ever see, day in and day out, would be evidence that Bigfoot is out there. likewise, going to college for women's studies is a great way to start viewing the entire flipping world as proof of misogyny.
to astoriana, if she ever has the courage to unblock me, you can say i am wrong all you like, but if you refuse to explain your position, you lose the argument by default. either you engage with those who do not accept your claims, or you guarantee that they will never consider your point of view.
Valid? Yes. Useful? Meh. It can be used for history majors who specialized in women's studies. Will it make you money? Doubt it. If they are respectable, they could be asked to speak at conferences, doubt that will happen.
It's valid if from an accredited university, is it a good investment is another argument. Psych and comm degree people get the same shit from STEM degree people, at least some of my STEM professors were condescending to them-but in the end, they are getting their degree from the same university I am, and if they get paid or not is not my business.
There are classes on the philosophy of Charlie Brown, Evangelion, and even the Spaghetti Monster. This can pile on to the many classes out there. If they want to spend time, effort, and money then by all means.
The memes are funny. For me things like women's studies, and similar courses are good for people who have no ides what they want in life or just Want to spend their college years chilling and going out.
I think Gender Studies makes a great minor since it can compliment many majors. I think it can only work as a major if you are using it as a stepping stone to something else (teaching, law school, etc).
Valid in what way? Earning money? Hell no. If your only degree is in something like gender/women studies, then I won't have much of any respect for your academic credentials. If you did that on the side, then that's completely fine. I just feel as if all of that stuff is common sense. It's also bound to be skewed to fit a certain type of agenda/thinking. An agenda that's not very rational.
Well, let's just say that Men's rights activists won't be taking a class any time soon. This conversation is similar to ones on race.
Another question, why do you claim those men who would? They obviously don't agree with your agenda. You actually call them "Manginas". So those guys who support feminism aren't your concern. In fact, you consider them enemies of the cause, right?
So now you try to get "logical". Logically does it make sense to care if a college student has made a poor choice in their education? How many jobs are there for a Women's studies major? Or an African studies major? Latin studies? Even if they find jobs, they won't pay well and they can only blame themselves.
As someone who looks over resumes all the time, a lot of degrees are quite useless but this one has to be near the very top.
Depending on the position I'm hiring for, what matters more is the quality of the resume on whether we throw the resume away or whether we'll ask them for an interview.
If you can find someone who is willing to give you a job for that credential, then good on you! If I were a modern-day feminist, I would probably still first opt for a degree that statistically has a proven track record of paying well, and second, a high likelihood of being able to land a job after college. And on the side, I would become a history buff for all things woman-related accomplishments/milestones, and religiously read/watch Buzzfeed, Vox, and Huffington Post.
It's like your garden variety degree. Mostly useless. Medieval studies? Ancient language? Psychology? Economics? In fact, a lot of undergrad degrees are useless unless you focus on a career or use it for a post graduate degree.
How do you plan to go to the restroom in armor? Probably make a good case study on on why nobody wear 60lbs of armor daily and why you need a squire to help you in and out of the armor.
I am not too sure. I mean the armor would include tight leather pants and a steel cup to protect your dong. Or may a complete set of high performance steel panties, capable of withstanding an incredible amount of punishment. They don't normally come with a convenient way to open.
But it's a dream nonetheless. I am just an economist. I studied the dismal science. I think the busty wench would have rotten teeth and various STD and I spend more to feed the horse than I eat.
Only mentally challenged wanna be victims think these things are valid. Essentially it would be like having a KKK class in University where people go to learn how to hate and be angry at another section of humans but has no valid purpose outside of pushing false bullshit and hate propaganda.
I know a few that take gender and Women's studies, I swear it's like colleges decided to offer remedial degrees for people who shouldn't be attending college simply for money after all that's what colleges really are now but a giant business.
Yeah, I work for a major university and I see these sheep everywhere creating groups, campaigns, and clubs to push their bullshit. It's like seeing "special" children at the special Olympics being told they are "athletes". The difference is that special children are happy and decent human beings.
It's like a religion or a cult that you must conform with or face harrassment and social exclusion, any freethinking ideas not discussed in the safe space is dissent and will not be tolerated
Is there man studies available. I reckon women could have the chance to major in that or they could just read that book 'The Manipulated Man' by Esther Vilar.
Not as bad as Australia banning that documentary made by a woman called the red pill because it's pro men's rights and shows feminazis in a negative light. Talk about facisists.
I'm talking about a college degree not feminism and most women have no problem being for women's rights and equality they just don't identity as feminists
I have never seen a feminist defend racial minorities rights or fight for them. There is a group of feminists that are against members of the LGBT community for stupid reasons. I have never seen a feminist fight for men's disadvantages in society or speak out against women's advantages in society.
I loathe people who say that feminism is for the equality of people, because there are more examples of the opposite. It seems "true and real" feminism is an exception to the movement. If you want all people to be equal, you're a humanitarian, egalitarian - a fucking human being. Not a feminist, which (if you took Latin) has nothing to do with human equality - the definition of feminism was changed because feminism lost support.
A man committed suicide while attempting to open the first male shelter for domestic/sexual violence due to feminist backlash. Julie Bindel remarked how men should be kept in camps and allowed to leave only by female permission like "library books." Fuck feminism.
@SaintRichie23 feminism really seems to be about privledged white women getting as much of the special treatment pie and fuck everyone else including black women.
The original intention wasn't to bash men. 1st wave was about earning the right to vote. 2nd wave was getting the right to equal pay. 3rd wave feminism has nothing to fight for except nitpicky crap like "Why can men show their nipples?" or "Men shouldn't sit with their legs open!" They even made up terms like "Mansplaining," and use "privilege" and "oppression" as a means to invalidate opposing arguments. Good luck having a discussion with a feminist when apparently we are genetically bred rapists with no idea on how society runs cause we sit on top of it.
I don't understand what you mean by "and then it isn't me using the word loathe..." If you're saying its wrong with me to disagree with something, then it just reinforces what I said before. I can hate something, because I'm not so PC where I believe I need to tolerate and accept every way of thinking. I have enough of a spine to disagree and state why I disagree using sound reasoning and examples. Most feminists I've met lack that.
You can read up on all that in your free time but treating it as a valid degree is useless. So many women complain they make less than men but it's simple economics. Get a degree there is demand for and you won't be complaining about money. I work in education and make the same as my male coworkers. You won't hear complaints from me.
It's as valid as fields like Hispanic studies, African American studies, or even anthropology and comparative literature. When do you see a job description that calls for any of these majors? Don't pick on women's studies just because you hate feminism.
I don't think it's as important at all as any of those you listed. especially not anthropology, it's basically sociology of cultures. women's study is about as garbage as men's studies.
@coszie There's no such thing as men's studies, because men have been defining academia as we know it since the beginning. And women's studies is the study of the evolving role of women in society over time. It's worth thinking about.
I know there's no men's studies lol. that's why I alluded they would be equal worth. I happen to actually be a history major, which on its own Is 100% worthless, and yet I think it qualifies me to know what I'm talking about and certainly backs my opinion. men 'define academia ' because women major in useless things like women's studies, and then complain about men having lucrative careers and making more money. It's not rocket science ladies.
Actually no. Men define academia because women were not allowed or encouraged to go to school and pursue higher education. A lot of colleges didn't become coed until the 60s or 70s, including Harvard. Until then women were restricted to women-only colleges, which were generally less prestigious than the men's colleges. This is the kind of perspective that women's studies will bring to you.
Yeah exactly: before the 60s college was as closed off for >90% of men as it was for women. If women's studies doesn't bring you that perspective then that's more proof the degree is a worthless toy for privileged rich white girls.
I think it's a degree it's just not very practical maybe it could be useful for HR in some capacity buy somehow understanding the female work force and how to some how up there productivity via team mixes or some sort of phycology I dont know but it feels incredibly niche if there is a use for it. More so than subjects like history where at least it could be use for finding shipwrecks , fossil records and other old valuable things.
Also, that STEM comic isn't fair at all. Just because you're not interested in STEM doesn't mean you can't point out that it is still a very male dominated field. I have to take insanely sexist shit from a surprising number of professors and only 1/4 of my year are girls. I don't think women in general are encouraged enough to pursue a degree in STEM.
what "insanely sexist shit" would this be exactly? is it worse than the totally unchallenged society-wide assumption that every single woman on a sinking ship deserves a seat in the lifeboat, and every single man is supposed to let himself die to make room for one more woman to live?
@androcentrist I have professors who claim they refuse to pass women on their lectures. I had classes with a professor who would openly comment on students' bodies in front of the whole class. I have professors who admittedly grades exams by gender (meaning if a woman and a man write the very same thing on an exam, he will admittedly give the man a higher grade). One of my classes involves producing cement in a laboratory and my professor forces girls to pair up with boys and take notes while they learn and practice the process, even though ALL of us asked to do it too. This is only the professors, I didn't even start with the tutors and male students.
As far as the boat goes, I agree, that's not fair. Doesn't mean that suddenly all the crap I have to hear in a STEM course is suddenly gone.
I don't see what else could be done to encourage women into STEM fields besides forcing them at gunpoint much like how certain other fields and professions are completely dominabared by women.
I'm not exactly sure of what's in the program, but everything that can be inquired from a scientific perspective, with a scientific method, can and should be studied at Universities.
As opposed to shit like homeopathy, theology and psychoanalysis, that are not real sciences. And still, lots of Universities waste time and money whith those.
Besides sciences (natural, social etc), Art and Philosophy should also be studied.
The purpose of college ought to be to train and prepare students to work in fields they could not work in without a certain higher level of education. Often times it is not this, but none the less it ought to be. I don't believe that gender studies or women's studies successfully prepares anyone in terms of living life in the real world.
No. This is a very limited part of Sociology. If you want to do that stuff. Study the whole thing, not just the part you are interested in. It woud be the equivalent of a History buff only studying Europe OR Asia OR U. S. OR Africa OR Oceania. Pointless, and does not give the complete spectrum of things related to the subject. I'm very glad we do not have this weird Major in here.
Honey, some of college majors are the biggest scams in these corporations. You'll graduate with that degree then look for a job as a waitress or take a bar-tending course, that's in not a stripping course coz strippers make shit tons of money.
That depends on what's your definition of "hot strippers", believe it or not, being a stripper is not about hotness, the hotness of a stripper is that connection the stripper makes with her moves, energy, eye contact, style and personality! I have read a lot about and saw documentaries, a lot of pretty sippers couldn't be successful ones.
Again, when you go peruse some college degree, ask yourself, what kinda jobs you'd have for getting that degree? Look at other people with similar degrees and see what they have achieved. This "Women Studies" degree sounds like something you'd use in academia, that means you probably won't be able to get a teaching job with that degree unless you have a PhD in the same kinda studies. P. S I'm a professor and I'm going to quit my job and start my own independent business coz that's how this world works, that's the way if you wanted to do better financially and own your life (and enjoy it) plus save money for your kids and grand kids. I won't be able to do all of that if I stayed in academia, unfortunately.
Everyone on gag is a professor or a lawyer or a scientist when they need to legitimise and add credibility to their argument. It's the internet equivalent of "my uncle is a lawyer so I know what I'm talking about"
After taking a Gender Studies course in college, I have to say that it is not legitimate. This may have just been a bad experience, but being one of 3 guys in the 30+ student class, it was obvious the teacher simply disliked guys, and often pitted the girls against us.
It also seems like the only job you can get with a gender studies degree is a teacher who teaches gender studies, which seems like a useless cycle to me.
Many people who pursue women's studies go on to become counselors and psychologists for sexual assault and rape victims... so yes absolutely. You need to look at the bigger picture after the degree is earned.
right, because that's obviously not how you get an echo chamber full of confirmation bias. nobody better to talk to some woman who THINKS she was abused, than someone who spent four years in college learning about how women are always right and should never be questioned or doubted.
wouldn't psychology be a more appropriate degree here? I don't think gender studies qualifies you to to give psychiatric advice and asses mental conditions. An untrained psychologist is a dangerous thing.
No; I've also never had my eyeballs gouged out with a melon baller, and I don't need to have personal experience with that activity in order to judge how useful or pleasant it would be.
female and male specific psychology exist as specialisations already (just like child psychology). If women's studies had any use here why is it not a suggested minor? psychology places a lot of weight on helping people deal with their own problems which is somewhat opposed to feminist philosophy.
It's a Mickey Mouse degree that will end up in a pile of debt for the unfortunates who study it, and will not improve their prospects of a job in the slightest.
A complete joke. On the people who take the course.
Posh people study Ovid and Homer, what bloody use is Latin and Greek, ancient, not modern,? The only time you're ever going to need Latin is if somebody were to invent a time machine, and yet, it's perfectly respectable to do "Classics", so why not allow " Gender Studies"?
Who is trying to prevent gender studies. The classics are great if your going on to be an archaeologist or historian. I think too many people take gender studies and end up working in subway. Only wealthy people can really afford education for its own sake.
Do we really need history and archeology? We could use a cure for cancer or AIDS, a passenger jet that can fly from London to Melbourn in under an you're would be useful, a way of stirring grain cheaply without it spoiling could prevent famine, diving up a load of Roman coins and a broken oil lamp is about as much use as another book about Marry Wolstoncroft, there are people who give a shit, but not many.
A lot of degrees aren't valid. A few years back a political rep for education apologized to students in a public statement regarding an arts degree that had been pushed a lot that had no value or merit to it.
Would you say there's a direct correlation to gender/women's studies and the pay gap because women who take gender/women's studies disagree as to it being a major cause of them getting 70cents for every dollar a man gets lol.
@HungLikeAHorsefly @DonkeyRick69 Let me clarify. I was not saying this particular major is specifically responsible for the gender wage gap, but rather that the frivolous majors many women choose in general are a very significant contributing factor. And that is just a fact...
@HungLikeAHorsefly @DonkeyRick69 Frivolous majors are a bad idea for anyone who wants to have even a moderately lucrative career, and gender and women's studies is about as useless as they come. Women choose useless majors significantly more that men do. That's a well known and documented statistical fact that contributes substantially to the gender wage gap. Horsefly, you are doing women no favors by denying it.
There are a ton of issues with what this AEI article is saying. Nonetheless, the wage gap studies that have been done note a gap in pay for people in the *same* field. Although, it isn't nearly as bad as the 77 cents on the dollar claim a lot of people make. It's closer to 93 cents to the dollar.
@HungLikeAHorsefly What specifically are those "tons of issues" you refer to? Are you suggesting that the gender / college major statistics are not accurate? Those statistics are the crux of the problem here.
@HungLikeAHorsefly And no, the statistic most often quoted by feminists is the 77% figure, and it is based on the earnings of all men and women regardless of field. You're right that the true figure is much closer to 93% but the difference can be easily explained away by differences like experience, time in the workforce, hours worked, different priorities driving employer and job choices, etc.
No, the 7% difference exists when you take all of those things into account. Do you really think studies on the issue wouldn't address those obvious issues?
The biggest and most glaring issue with the AEI study is just that - the studies done that conclude there is a wage gap are analyzing men and women in the same industries. That is, the claim isn't that women make less *in general*, it's that they make less in comparable jobs. For example, they're claiming a female mechanical engineer is likely to make less than a male mechanical engineer. That fact completely invalidates the conclusion the AEI makes.
Another issue is that no information is given about the popularity of each major. As it happens, the more remunerative majors pay a lot simply because very, very few people actually graduate with those degrees. Take Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering for example. Yes, it's 97% male, but it also accounts for less than 0.01% of all college degrees per year. [...]
[...] Even if the numbers were reversed and it was 97% women, this isn't nearly enough to solve the problem of the wage gap. It's just wishful thinking at that point.
The last obvious problem with the AEI study is the claim at the bottom that economists will tell you it's women's choices that explain the problem - very few economists say that.
"No, the 7% difference exists when you take all of those things into account. Do you really think studies on the issue wouldn't address those obvious issues?"
Yes, I really do. Please show me the studies you are referring to that control for all those factors and still show a 7% difference. I will list them again for your convenience: differences in experience, time in the workforce, hours worked per week, different priorities driving employer and job choices.
Damn dude, expecting an immediate answer on a Friday night is a bit naive. Anyhoo...
Altonji and Blank, "Race and Gender in the Labor Market" www.econ.yale.edu/.../altonji%20and%20blank.pdf They control for occupation, education, experience, region, parental status, time in industry, hours worked per week, government vs. non-governmental employers, job choices and other personal issues. They find that there is a wage gap of about 6.6% among those in the same industries and that none of the above factors explain the gap.
Wood, Corcoran, Courant, "Pay Differences Among the Highly Paid" www.jstor.org/.../2535080 Controls for occupation, age, education, experience, parental status, hours worked per week, time in the workforce, grades in college, and other things. Found a wage gap of about 18% that isn't explained by the above factors.
Government Accountability Office, "Work Patterns Partially Explain Differences Between Men's and Women's Earnings" http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-04-35 Controls for education, experience, time in industry, occupation, hours worked per week, marital status, race and parental status. Found a wage gap of 20% that isn't explained by the factors above.
Boraas and Rogers, "How Does Gender Play a Role in the Earnings Gap?" https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2003/03/art2full.pdf Found a wage gap that isn't explained by education, industry, experience, race, parental status, marital status, hours worked per week, region, city size, union membership or governmental vs. non-governmental employment.
Rey and Hill, "Behind the Pay Gap" http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED496176.pdf Finds that there is a 20% wage gap that isn't explained by occupation, industry, hours worked per week, workplace flexibility, telecommuting, working multiple jobs, time at the current employer, time in industry, experience, parental status and marital status
@HungLikeAHorsefly Perhaps I should have specified current studies; all the ones you cited are out of date and clearly do NOT adequately control for all the important variables. Allow me to help with that. Here's one that is not only more recent but also compares younger men and women in the age group whose earnings would actually be reflective of today's conditions using government data. It found that the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% HIGHER than those of men in their peer group, and as much as 17% higher in some areas. Interesting how different the results are when there is no bias, huh?
@DonkyRick69 Yes, my momma would have been able to provide proof for things she said.
Also, it is interesting that there are scores of studies that say there is a wage gap, and you supposedly found one study that says otherwise. Where did you get the idea that multiple peer reviewed scholarly studies are somehow biased yet some random stuff you can't even substantiate isn't?
@DonkeyRick69 Do you understand what peer review is, or how science works in the United States? I ask because it doesn't sound like you do.
If a study is peer reviewed, it means it's been thoroughly analyzed anonymously by someone who is just as much an expert as those who wrote it but who doesn't work at that college and who has no interest in helping the authors of the study (they are often interested in proving the authors wrong, in fact). After that review, studies go through a second review with the greater community at large, which includes everyone in the field.
So... you're saying that somehow hundreds of colleges and universities have the same ideology and even though they benefit greatly if they prove one another wrong, they don't for some reason? Don't say they're doing it for the research funding because in the social sciences that's almost non-existent.
@HungLikeAHorsefly how very elitist of you. Next will you pretend you care about the starving poor children by feeding them the scraps from your dinner table like all the other bobos?
@DonkeyRick69 It's elitist of me to point out that I have direct experience with something you have an incorrect opinion on? What do you do for a living? How about I tell you about what I think of what you do for a living, and then call you an elitist for correcting me if I'm wrong?
@HungLikeAHorsefly it's elitist for you to pull out your diploma and dismiss the opions of others because you regurgitated another's work for a college essay.
@DonkeyRick69 I haven't mentioned my education, what it's in or what I did to get it. I said that I worked in academia and therefore I'm in a better position than you are to know what goes on there.
You, on the other hand, made a whole bunch of assumptions. You're disparaging a profession of which you obviously don't know anything about. It's not elitist to point that out - it's simply a fact.
@HungLikeAHorsefly "i worked in academia " a lot of people work in academia and have options that differ from yours, as they say science is not done by consensus
If calling bullshit on people who say false things (aka lying) and who form strong opinions on things they know nothing about is elitist, then yep, that's me.
Society thinks they are valid degrees. My personal opinion is that a Women's Studies degree is not valid unless the school also offers a Men's studies degrees, since Feminism, is about, well equality... or is it not? Gender Studies is not a valid degree in my opinion because I believe that there are only two genders, male and female.
I would say it's a valid degree to get, but it's not useful and not as notable as other degrees. Like what can you really do with that? It's not really a practical degree.
well, it's an actual degree. but, much like majoring in philosophy, you don't really stand to make a living off of it unless you get at least a master's and teach it.
They are not valid degrees, Janice Fiamengo, Jordan Peterson, and Ben Shapiro have some great arguments as to why, but it's essentially because they are lies and bullshit that have more in common with religion than they do with reality.
If you are wealthy, go ahead and waste your money. If you are like the rest of us how about a nice marketable degree in nursing, occupational and physical therapy, pharmacy, nuclear medicine or engineering.
... uh... If anything you're single handedly making such a degree more valid with this regergitation of trollbait memes. Coming from someone who doesn't have or want such a degree, finds the lessons of most women's studies courses somewhere between laughable to cringy, and is pretty disgusted by popular modern "feminism".
Only if you aren't going to college to make more money afterwards. I think those are perfectly fine degrees to pursue just for intellectual curiosity purposes.
To the anonymous downvoter, would you mind explaining why you think I'm wrong? I'm serious. The subjects seem to fall under the aegis of Anthropology, and I don't see what makes them merit being subjects of their own. (Now that I think about, ISTR that my sister's senior thesis in Anthro dealt with the role of women in... something.)
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