Lets get one thing straight; Ghost in the Shell is NOT Cyberpunk

[Waffles731]

that is an interpretation of the classic cyberpunk Character from Gibson's Sprawl Trilogy, Molly Millions. Now Molly Millions is everything a Cyberpunk anti-heroine should be, She's got a punk attitude, she's a cyborg and a mercenary who has steel razor claws that can retract into her fingers.

Now I can see why after that people would call Ghost in the shell Cyberpunk. Now they have it half right. Ghost in the Shell is Cyber, however to be a cyberpunk work, you need to have both parts of that fulfilled and Ghost in the Shell doesn't have the chops to fulfill the punk part (oh yeah, I also don't like Anime or Manga and think 95 percent of it is overrated)

But now the major may be a cyborg badass but there is another part of her character that essentially means the whole series cannot be described as Cyberpunk.

The Major is well, a government employee, she's the symbol of oppression, she's well working for the man doing what the man wants.

The very fact of the kinds of things she does for the government as a protagonist means this is not a work of Cyberpunk, sure a character like her can be in a work of cyberpunk, but not as the protagonist and certainly not as any kind of hero anti or otherwise. She'd have to be the Antagonist and the Villain. She's the kind of person the hacker, or the private investigator would be hunted by and have to kill in order to accomplish their mission.

So that is just one reason and one very large one, why Ghost in the Shell is not in the Cyberpunk Genre despite being saying it is when they have no clue what cyberpunk actually means.

[DiogoRibeiro]

Very interesting take on Ghost in the Shell. I personally agree that most animes are overrated.

This is one exception. I really like Ghost in the Shell and it has influenced film and games ever since it was released.

Hope to read more from you soon, man. 👍

[Panda_Bree]

I used to work as a meat puppet part time too, so I sympathize w/ Molly.

[ObscuredBeyond]

I'd have to agree that "punk" has lost its meaning in the genre classification system.

Some might describe my "Ciem" stories as "bio-punk," using bio enhancements of a Spider-Man-like nature as a substitute for cyber enhancements.

But it's not punk, at all.

Candi's brushes with the law are more gross misunderstandings and bad luck, than any desire to rebel. She holds no real personal malice toward the government, even when they are being fascist douchebags. She even takes her brief prison sentence like a champ.

Her only real vendetta is against the head-chopping pedo thug cultists that murdered her parents - who want to steal an ancient artifact to conquer the multiverse, and have ties to corrupt government officials.

But truth be told, she just wants to get married and live in peace with her future husband and kids. She has to fight for the right to be normal, in a world that sees her as a slave that they can turn into a weapon.

She doesn't sympathize with LGBT causes, nor with Marxists, nor with any other rebel groups. She pretty much just wants to be left alone with her family, to live and worship and earn a living in peace as a quasi-traditional housewife. And the world will let her lead any lifestyle except that one.

There's bio, all right. But the "punk" part isn't really there.

Genre labels can get messy, and labelers can get lazy. Fact of life.

[Peskyn3gr0]

Dude, you are such a fucking lunatic, how the hell do you make everything about the left? Get a fucking life.

[ObscuredBeyond]

@Peskyn3gr0: I see in your rush to get triggered, you missed the important parts:

- Waffles is saying that Ghost in the Shell shouldn't be considered true "cyberpunk," because the punk part is all but completely absent.
- I demonstrate how a work of mine doesn't qualify as true "biopunk," because the main character fails to meet the criteria for being a "punk" on almost every level.

Now breathe easy, Pekinski. The rest is just details.

[Chief16]

Have you seen Ghost In The Shell? It is cyberpunk. It doesn't exclusively revovlve around Major Kusanagi, it covers various parts that are essential to being cyberpunk like the forensics, philosophy etc. Its one of the seminal works. I've seen the entire series and if this isn't Cyberpunk. Sure its inspired by Molly Millions, but that's almost extensively on the basis of the Major. By itself, the anime is quite authentic. The conflicts, Deus Machina, 'soul' in a machine vs AI, corrupt megacorps, cyborgs, all these are covered substantially.

[Laura_Marx]

Yeah bladerunner definitely wasn't cyberpunk because the main character was a cop thats how it works

[Waffles731]

I gathered that he was a private consultant who was a former cop.
Also Yay your back.
Did you hear they are making a sequel to Blade runner

[Laura_Marx]

yeah lol its gonna be awful

anyway yr missing the point though! Cyberpunk doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the protagonist, a lot of cyberpunk takes place 'corporate-side'. It's more about it being a kind of near-future speculative political sci-fi re: tech capital. The main character in Tetsuo, for example, couldn't really be called 'punk', but its definitely cyberpunk (OUR LOVE WILL DESTROY THE WORLD!) - besides, I think yr ignoring one of the central conflicts of GitS, that the Major (& others) are not only agents of the surveillance state but also *victims of it*, its more complicated than yr giving it credit.

[Laura_Marx]

@Waffles731 continuing from your response to me on anon's reply (I'm sure he doesn't want to hear us talk about films :P)

hehe I don't wanna be a filmmaker nah but I'm really into film. I'm (slowly) learning to make games, though, just like it has said on my profile for like 2 years or w/e lmfao, and there is a great deal of overlap between films and games. I read a lot of Bela Belasz writing on film

[Waffles731]

cool. this winter I knocked several movies off my list actually

[Laura_Marx]

yeah? what'd you watch. Have you seen TETSUO: THE IRON MAN or any other iconic low budget japanese cyberpunk films

[Waffles731]

I have not actually,

[ThisDudeHere]

Isn't Cyberpunk just about a futuristic theme, not about the alignments of the protagonist?

[Waffles731]

no, not at all

[ThisDudeHere]

Who says so, if I may ask?

The same way, who's to say that all high-fantasy has to follow the Lord of the Ring's type of setup?

[JudgmentDay]

I'll keep this one in mind and remind someone about it if they ever thought or considered Ghost In The Shell to be Cyberpunk or part of the Cyberpunk genre.

[Iraqveteran666]

The movie once again was another complete whitewash from Hollywood. I can't believe how racist Scarlet Johansen was for staring in it. Makes you think that the reason Hollywood kept babbling anti American and anti Trump crap at the Oscars this year was to hide how racist they are after being called out on it at last year's Oscars and because they realise how little they actually influence people's lives.

[Peskyn3gr0]

Lol, shut up you fucking idiot.

[Iraqveteran666]

@Peskyn3gr0 Hollywood has a white woman saviour complex.

[Anonymous]

I watched all the anime movies and cyberpunk never crossed my mind, Anime does not try to fit into western concepts, that's true originality.

[Laura_Marx]

Cyberpunk was totally a thing in japan, it was very influential on anime. 'Western' and 'Eastern' concepts aren't so clear cut nowadays! Kurosawa was working off of what he saw Hollywood directors do, while the Hollywood directors were imitating Japanese theater & whatever.

[Waffles731]

@Laura_Marx
'Kurosawa'
Was a freaking genius

[Laura_Marx]

yes he is my hero

[Waffles731]

@Laura_Marx he is amazing, do you want to be a filmmaker?

[SlightlyCrazy]

I've never thought of the term so literally but I agree wth you

[SnowHearth]

I agree.

[COCOCHANEL]

interesting

[Mr-Kabuki]

so whats steam punk