I saw some myTakes by @Secret6620 (The Cure For Drama and 11 Ways To Spot A Frenemy: Do You Have A Frenemy? ) and it got me thinking: is the line for toxicity ever too clear? I think it may actually be more common to have more of a hot-n-cold friendship. (If you cut everyone out at the first sign of a fight, you're going to be a very lonely person!)
In other words, what if a person is a good friend most of the time but has spouts of toxic behavior. However, it's easy to say no one is perfect, so where do you draw the line? Where do you define the gray zone-- where do you cut the person out for their toxic behavior as oppose to forgiving them as just a day in the life of human relationships? ^Like if someone yells at you constantly, that's obviously toxic, but what if they get angry only on occasion?
When do you truly decide someone is toxic vs. simply human and imperfect?
An interesting question. While nobody is perfect and you'll likely have rough patches with people at times, I find you can decide if they're toxic by both how exactly they act during a fight, and how you regularly feel around them.
What I mean by that is, you should usually feel good around the people you hang out with. I mean, your friends should be supportive people who you feel energized/content around regularly. If you're constantly feeling like you need to walk on egg shells when you're with them as you know they'll get angered by the smallest thing, and you're commonly left feeling mentally drained and exhausted during/after hanging out with them, those aren't good signs. Basically, I think you should have more good times than bad with them, and if you're having more bad, that might be a sign of a toxic friendship.
And how they act during a fight. To me, this is the main way to tell if someone's toxic or not. Raising your voice, slipping up and saying something hurtful in the heat of things, etc, can certainly happen, that's kinda part of being human, but if they're trying to gaslight/manipulate you into getting their way, that's where the line is crossed. Especially if they continue to play the victim card afterward and never admit to any fault.
Even in random sprouts, that's not acceptable behavior in my opinion. I've dealt with a fair bit of manipulation throughout my life, so I'll admit, my tolerance might be a bit low because of that. I'll forgive them 1-3 times depending on the severity, but if they don't make any effort to change and continue to display that kind of behavior, that is where I draw the line and cut them off.
So unless the person does the "dealbreaker" actions like gaslighting, it's sort of like a general net feel that determines whether one is toxic vs. normal levels of imperfect?
Yeah, that's pretty much how I view it. Not all toxic behaviors are created equally though, so even if the general consensus is like a 70/30 good/bad split, that 30% could be enough to cross the line depending on the situation.
Sometimes you’re having the wrong type of relationship with someone. It’s not necessarily the person is toxic or you who is toxic. It is the dynamic. There are people I’ve had toxic relationships with whom now we enjoy healthy relationships. Communication and boundaries are sometimes what fixes it unless the other the other person is a narcissist or something. Then you should run screaming👌
Interesting perspective. I never really thought about it that way, where it’s less about the person’s characteristics and more about the type of interaction with the person.
Thanks for the answer. Gave me a new view to it đź‘Ť
I can't post on those takes, which is a shame; they're interesting. However, I think, yes, it has to be an ongoing problem. People do get angry from time to time, even for stupid reasons, but in my opinion, toxicity is a long term pattern of behaviour, like never admitting fault, or getting upset if others don't do everything they want (while only doing what they want for other people). You can't be sure if they're always like that until you've observed them for a while.
That said, getting angry or demanding services early on in a relationship is also a red flag; you should be feeling each other out, not feeling entitled.
Am I correct to say it's sort of a mix then? More specifically, you have red flag behaviors which are, in essence, auto-dealbreakers. Then, you have long term behavior issues that are ok if occasional (i.e. refusing to admit fault) but dealbreakers if patterns (i.e. never admitting fault)
Pretty much. If the bad behaviour comes in very early, it's a deal-breaker, because it's likely to be their go-to position (you don't want to hang around to find out). If they've been reasonable for years then take something out on you, you can try to be understanding, but patterns can take a while to spot. The trouble is that toxic behaviour is more insidious, making you doubt yourself, until you decide that you don't have to put up with it.
I was raised to treat people the way I would like to be treated. Far too late in life, I realised that there's a corolory: if people treat you worse than you treat them, that must be the way they want to be treated, and it would be rude not to treat them that way!
(btw. there was a girl on here asking what she should do because her boyfriend had punched her. If even that isn't an obvious red flag, it's not surprising that reactions like "what, you think I should do?" from people who ask you to do things for them all the time don't trigger our early warning system.)
"if people treat you worse than you treat them, that must be the way they want to be treated, and it would be rude not to treat them that way" Never thought about it this way before-- Interesting perspective. So in that perspective, it's best not to take a "turn the other cheek" perspective, or else you're doomed to be a punching bag. Would I be right to assume that this is not a literal thing, as in it being (at some point) best to walk away versus actively treating the person back as a manner of revenge?
(And yeah... I'm just letting that thread sort of die down and go away. We both wrote our sides on the matter and not much else can be said.)
Yes, of course, walk away, but you can try letting them have a taste of their own medicine (at least partly), not in a mean way, but as a way to let them know what it's like.
For example, if they assume they can always make plans and you'll drop everything to make it possible, stop going along with them; if you've made your own plans, and they want you to change them, just say no.
When a person is always whining about how she had a difficult life when she is clearly exaggerating her situation. Or when she instead of appreciating the wealth of others down plays them and say that they are born rich ( like rich people don't work which is not true they do work as well). I feel it to be the most toxic. I hate it when people hate others and just think life is only unfair to them
Basically you are just as ignorant as the guy who posted. Hate is not a good look on either one of you. Try actually supporting instead of spreading hatred and negativity. I love seeing all of these toxic behaviors because it just confirms Everything I write. Thank you guys 🎉🎉🎉
@Secret6620 He asked what is toxic vs just imperfect human behavior. I think I am misunderstood here. You have to experience it first hand to know about it. You are born into poverty people aren't saying anything bad to you and all of the sudden you just keep whining about it all the time even if the person had to go through hell? I wasn't being judgmental about it but some people do think like this. They do think the world revolves around them and what they say goes. That is not how life is. Downvote me all you want I don't care
@ AmeerX When would you draw the line of someone doing a normal gripe about daily life vs someone you need to cut out? For instance, I'd say many people complain a lot about their life, but is there a certain point or general rule of thumb where you decide enough is enough?
The general rule is to look for clues. And there is a breaking point for different people it is different. Like some enjoy whinny people while others don't. For me the clue is that the repetition in words. Like a certain girl says she is poor and everything is so tough on her like every other day means she is basically going to stay like this all the time. Or someone who always says something like, "Oh life is so difficult for me, my parents don't give me much. i have to use the commuter" etc etc. and then in the end say something like you are so rich and have a car or something, you don't know anything about how us poor people live etc. Basically assuming everyone else is living great and is able to milk 4 cows with single hand.
If I understand what you're saying correctly, it's overall a matter of assessing one's individual breaking point and taking a stance when "enough is enough." Then, after that, it's a matter of looking at the other person's behavior and deciding if they pass the threshold. Would that be correct?
Don't assess your breaking point it naturally comes. it is not enough is enough kind of situation. You just have to be vigilant whether a person is having narcissistic personality or not. Because most of these people are cruel in their heart and don't care for others. Playing victim etc.
I wrote a toxic friend out of my life because of the constant toxic behavior over the same things with me and others. It was getting extremely stale years into our friendship. The line appears for me when I can tell that person something they're doing is hurting me or the way they behave is having major negative effects on others and that person repeatedly does nothing or repeats the same behaviors with no attempts to change. After a while your interactions with them become a form of insanity. You go in hoping for a different outcome, but it's always the same exact thing, no change. If you are literally asking yourself why you put up with this person over and over or you begin to dread hanging out with them or you don't feel like they respect or value you, that's an inner voice one needs to pay attention to because that person most likely isn't a good person to have in your life.
In terms of determining if a person is human and imperfect vs. toxic, that doesn't really matter. You decide what you as a person are willing to deal with and put up with in your own friendships and relationships. For some, they can go forever dealing with toxic people, and for others it takes a few times, and they are out.
This is a bit of a different, but related question after reading the first part: Do you believe you should confront the person about their behavior to try to instigate a chance before you cut them?
This is coming from experience, but when you are kept in a game of emotional cat and mouse. It becomes unhealthy and toxic when you can never be yourself out of fear of hurting them or upsetting them. Hell, that's when it becomes abusive. If you are kept on a string, where your emotions affect theirs, and when they lay all their personal baggage on you, without you being able to lay some of your personal baggage on them as well, that's when its toxic. I wish I saw all the red flags dancing when my "friend" of 5 years started telling me that she got sad when I wasn't happy all the time, and that my playing video games 'hurt her', and when she would hate on other people, then get offended when people offered criticism to her. She got upset that I was raised in a different faith, and would hate on those who didn't believe in the bullshit she did. When she expected herself to be the center of my universe, dictating all my actions and what I thought, that is when it became abusive and toxic. Any person who expects someone to change their life for them without offering some change as well is abusive and toxic. No execptions.
Is there a certain line you feel you can clearly draw as when someone is officially playing the cat-and-mouse game? Or is it just something you figure out once you're in the position already?
It's something that I didn't figure out until I was a mile away from that friendship and surrounded by people who genuinely cared for me. It's easy to defend those close to us when they do bad things, because "they're our friend, why would they want to hurt us?" But, you know what they say, hindsight is 20/20 vision
Someone is toxic when they keep repeating the same mistakes that hurt you over and over without attempting to change for the better. To err is human. Yes we are humans and we make mistakes making us imperfect. However a mistake that is repeated is a decision and that right there is toxic... if they keep hurting you and using and abusing you, there is no more respect left for you as a friend or family. So it’s best to cut them off your life or limit your interaction with them as they will only continue to hurt you...
If someone attempts to change, but fails again and again, what should happen then? I can think of a person I knew/know who seemingly had an anger issue of sorts and would have uncalled for outbursts. Then, the person would apologize after the fact every time in hopes of fixing the issue, but it never ultimately changed.
Whoever downvoted me obviously think it's ok to hurt someone they're supposed to love over and over and making the same toxic mistake is normal to them... Well the person who have anger issues should at least back off a little bit and don't blow off their anger to that same person... It gets exhausting you know. What will you do if you were the receiving end of that?
(Yeah, someone is downvoting a lot of the opinions. I thought it was a good opinion though, for what it's worth.)
Well, the person who I was referring was a friend of the past. Eventually things just kind of faded away as they do. I think a reason for the distance was because it did honestly get exhausting like you mentioned, not necessarily the outbursts themselves, but having to constantly watch what I say to make sure it doesn't trigger an outburst. It changed the structure of the friendship into something likely unhealthy. When they weren't outbursting though, they were a perfectly fine and good friend, which is why it was sort of a questionable thing.
I think that it would depend on each individual person/relationship. For me someone is toxic when there's been multiple fights with no resolution. When they continually undermine and demean you, cross boundaries, don't treat you right, etc. If someone someone hurts you over and over again and you've given them chance after chance but nothing changes, then they are toxic in my opinion.
When it's a long extended behavior probably months of it because everyone goes through bad times and may be toxic short term. Plus it's easy to be a friend to someone when everything is great. Real friends go through the bad times too. I'd ask the person what the issue was and talk like grown ups
That makes sense. So confront the person first and foremost. If they can't give an explanation to their behavior, is that the point where you consider distancing yourself from them?
Yes sir always ask don't assume. After that they have been made aware that they are behaving in a matter your not comfortable with. So it's a decision from there not a misunderstanding or random event
Then you have to set healthy boundaries. Please check out my other mytakes on how to identify toxic people and how to rid yourself of them. Thanks for checking them out. 💗💗💗
In the future, do not post content to negate my works especially when you are not familiar with them. You are not stating anything valid in this post and it actually doesn't even make sense. It literally sounds like you are upset because you are a one upper and instead of fixing yourself you make a post to try and justify your toxic behaviors. You could benefit most from my articles. Actually read them before you post about them. Thank you đź’—đź’—đź’—đź’—
I vote for the post to be removed for being irrelevant and no real question was asked. This was just you bashing and contradicting my work that is factual and supported which is very different than your writing because you are emotional triggered and trying to build an argument off of that. Which is not substantiated or supported. 🌸💗
I am sorry you feel that way, but I wasn't trying to negate your works or even question them. I was listing a thought process. My actual opinion was that I thought they were good. (People should check them out!) I was listing them as inspiration, and crediting them. That is it. I thought my question was more like a different subject/aspect about toxicity than what you were discussing in your myTakes. I really did read the myTakes and thought up the question afterwards. :)
I think there may be some miscommunication somewhere along the line here, maybe with how we're both reading the question.
Nevertheless, I don't like confrontation / drama, and I will avoid having my username show up in your notifications as best as I can from now on. I shall not link your posts or mention you.
@calicinderella93 I'm honestly still confused, because I wasn't trying to disagree with them, because like I said before (and still will say now)-- I do agree with them. This question was an effort to expand on the subject, not to detract or downplay your point of view. If I wrote it in a way that made it seem like I was disagreeing, that's a mistake on my part. However, I think you are a good writer, and as per your wishes, I was going to avoid your questions/myTakes and not mention you from now on.
They would be a friend I call at arms length. I do not care if it only once a year if I ask you once to not do something that should be a big enough reason not too. I also have extremely limited patience for stupidity and unnecessary drama. I think it's pretty easy to tell by the person's movements consistencies and just how they live their everyday life
They become toxic if it’s a consistent set of negative behaviors. If it’s infrequent or not repeated behaviors then they’re just normal people that make mistakes.
I went on a date with a guy who talked mad shit about everything and seemed super negative. And he wants to be a cop so I felt like that fit him well lol that is toxic in my book
Kind of like the person has a hot-n-cold stance on it. Let's say you approach the person in question with good news, and maybe one out of every three to five times you discuss something happy with them, they put down your accomplishments. Let's suppose the person is the same in regards to putting you down. In other words, the person is fine most of the time, but has issues some of the times.
The main question at the topic, in other words, was asking something like.... -- If 1 out of 1 times, aka every time, the person is putting you down, the person is clearly bad/should be avoided. I don't think there is much question there. -- If the person never puts you/your accomplishments down, the person is likely not at all toxic ... so where you should you draw the line between toxic/non-toxic? Every other time? One out of three times? Once a year? etc.
When i start feeling this sinking feeling in my chest or anxiety thinking about them or upon seeing them. I used to have some toxic friends back in high school that would seriously drain the energy out of me and leave me sad the entire day and no matter how nice i tried to be they'd always have something mean attitude to throw back at me.
If for a laugh she punch my head, kicked me while I was down while laughting and then claim it was just for fun... ya after I do the same I don't want to see that person again.
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