What do I think? Honestly, I think that people should do what they want to do with their hair to feel good about themselves. Embrace who you are, and love what you have.
It wasn’t made by Americans. If you actually read my statement is was made by African Americans. I’m not sure why a movement offends you? Just because you don’t find it important doesn’t mean it isn’t important to others. This movement is actually quite popular
Because a lot of us used to get shit for wearing our natural hair and it was deemed as "unprofessional " just because our hair texture was different. I used to get shit on everyday because I wasn't able to "slick" my hair back.
Made by African americans... so americans. I don't care if you're African/hispanic/Asian/white American. You're an American to me. It was deemed unprofessional due to workplace standards I assume. Yeah I used to get shit for my hair too. I didn't start a movement because of it. I'm not offended, i just find it hilarious what you people come up with.
Um ok? Good for you. We started a movement and theirs no point in disrespecting it just because you find it “funny”. And I’m not sure what you consider being shit in for your hair is the same thing we’re talking about. Online theirs plenty of information on what the movements for. You not liking it doesn’t make the movement any less valid. And I’m not sure what you even mean by “you people”
Don’t bother, she’s trolling, trying her best to stir up some racial shit so she can cry about it, AND, she’s as dumb as a post, terrible reading comprehension.
I'm making fun of it for the same reason I'd make fun of a "wet socks movement".
I used to have an afro. I had naturally dense curls and was the only guy around with that type of hair. So you can imagine the type of stuff that was said to me.
By "you people" I mean you americans. Your not African anything. You weren't born there, you probably never went there, you don't speak your ancestral language or practice your ancestral customs.
You calling yourself "African American" makes about as much sense as me calling myself a ukranian slovene just because my ancestors migrated from there 1500 years ago. Actually it makes more sense for me to call myself "ukranian slovene" because at least I share folklore with them.
All you have is your skin color therefore , americans
@grega239 you do realize that I never once referred to myself as African American. I said I was black, and I’m Caribbean. Which doesn’t change the fact that I’m black.
I also could care less about Europe, that’s an entirely different topic.
As for @RCLJT you’re very bold, coming on my page obviously angry for god knows what. I suggest if you’re not going to bring up a worth while convo than you can leave rather than wasting your time commenting?
And it’s a very low blow on yourself for you, a grown man to call a 14 yr old on the internet dumb. This isn’t elementary school, you aren’t hurting anyone’s feelings like that.
Because anyone born after 1980 has to feel “ special” be noticed and get their 15 minutes of fame, all attention whores, all us old timers want is to be left the fuck alone.
@doopayo "it wasn't made by americans. It was made by African americans" lol whats also hilarious is are you trying to say that African americans are not americans? Jeez i wonder how they got the title "African American" in the first place?
Actually, i can give you a big reason why i nitpicked that one. So now you know that you have been using the wrong choice of words just like how you describe that movement as a different thing. So yes that is something relevant that you should be aware of. You are talking about marketing you're not talking about movement.
Another point will be, if a company actually encourages people with straight hair to care for their hair so that they will make more sales, would that be a new movement then? That's why it's pointless and even if that is what the theory said, the one that i should research, i just prove that theory wrong. Because it is called a movement instead of just basic marketing, you can't blame anyone why there are extremist hijacking that one
You’re misinformed about the subject that you’re talking about, just go and learn about the natural hair movement instead of getting made at me for asking a simple question
Easy for you to say when it's really ironic. Do you think you are really informed yourself? Or it seems to me you don't even understand what marketing really is but you just like to see it as a movement.
Ok sure but those products still exist for that hair and lets see how many of them would still buy it. They "do it for themselves" just like how girls wear makeup.
Yeah sure just dismiss everything by saying "you don't understand what the movement is" Do you even understand what "practice" vs "theory" means? Basically like what body positivity. They don't have to lose weight they say because they "love" their bodies that they just don't bother working out. No body is saying you should buy those expensive natural hair products but at least take care of it properly if you wanna be professional. But like what I said, those products will still exist and girls who use those are just "doing it for themselves" making the standards go higher.
I dismissed everything because you made no new or ground breaking points that are worth bringing up. I’m not obligated to teach you about natural hair, so if you’re so interested on the topic many resources are online at your disposal
And just like that, you think you're being truthful now yet you never gave a valid point. My point still stands actually. Curly natural hair acceptance is not frizz acceptance.
And sure that's like a common instinct and not only for anyone who has natural hair so that's not necessarily a movement. People with straight hair also use products that is for straight hair. So yes what you're saying is the theory but practice is what im talking about which actions speaks louder than words. Some of them just likes their fizzy hair and encourages it by not using any of those "expensive" products you're talking about. The "just products for your hair"
You definitely don’t know what you’re talking about. Just because your hair is curly doesn’t mean it’s just curly, hair is much more complex than that. And at the end of the day if you don’t like it than that’s ok. It doesn’t mean that other people can’t like it, and the movement is posative so I’m not sure how you’re getting all these fake negatives out of a movement you know nothing about
And do you even know what you're talking about? I can also say the same thing. Again i am going by the practice instead of the theory. Anyone can also say communism is good because in theory it is until they demonstrated it. What you're talking about is basicly just common sense. If you have a kinky hair you look for products for kinky hair. How is it different for someone with a straight hair looking for a straight hair product?
You know you have been trying to dismiss argument like few replies ago i see you fail miserably. If you really know what you're talking about then why can't you even take your own words?
Or a more accurate way to consider what you describe about that movement is it is more of a marketing than a movement. I'm not even saying it a bad thing but i'm just think it's misleading. Like using the wrong word to describe not kind of act.
Who is saying it is deep? I told you because i have research about it, i already debunk that for you. How about you yourself go learn what theory vs practice really means? I guess it's only because i actually made a point? You can think deeply about it my point remains truthful
If you actually researched about it than you’d at least have a basic understanding of what the natural hair movement is about, instead of debating completely irrelevant subjects to prove your point to something that I’ve literally said I wasn’t arguing?
Then you would have at least also have the basic understanding of how i debunked that one. You can keep repeating your ad hominems, like trying to dismiss argument saying i don't understand anything. The main point i said doesn't really change it it still stands. I read it a lot of times and i've also read how marketing works and their pretty close. Is also easy to strawman like what you do like saying if you really know marketing yourself then you should know that. But with your logic, does not make me truthful now?
I’m not even trying to prove you wrong because it’d be pointless and it’d just be like talking to a wall as you don’t really seem open for discussion. Which is why I said you can do your own research if you’re so interested on the subject
If you just want to look for excuse dislikes saying it's pointless then why are you even here? I see, it's now that when someone just made a point you're just going to say that. Also i can't keep repeating that i'm already read what it's about and that is why i have already debunked it for you.
So you’ve read one article about it and are still angry about a movement that you quite literally know nothing about? This is probably the most least harmful movement ever so I’m not sure why you take offense to it, find better problems
You assume i only read one oracle and angry about the movement. A sumptuous doesn't really prove you anything and they are just based on your feelings perhaps you're angry because i actually made a point. And was the point even talking about abolishing that movement and shame anyone who supports it? No. All i'm saying is that a pointless movement and it's miss worded. So instead of asking me what about ask yourself why are you angry? What's your point asking this question anyway? Validation?
Uhh, do some research ASAP. Kids have been sent home from school, people have been fired from job... and all for wearing their natural hair or ethnic styles.
Black women report being 30 percent more likely to receive a formal grooming policy in the workplace. Additionally, the study found that some natural African-American hairstyles, such as locs, braids, and natural curls, are perceived as less professional.
Black women were 80 percent more likely to change their hairstyle to meet societal and workplace expectations.
For the study, the CROWN Coalition surveyed 2,000 United States women aged 24 to 64 who worked in office settings. When shown two images of a Black woman and White woman with the same hairstyle, respondents typically rated the White woman as 25 percent higher in “job readiness” than the Black woman. The results also found that Black women were 1.5 times more likely to have reported having been sent home or knew another Black women who was sent home because of her hair.
@doopayo Yeah I know there is so much stats in this. And this isn't even getting to slavery, passing for white in segregated America and the internalised black racism re good hair.
@doopayo you didn't lik me a study. you linked me to a news article about the source, which is a secondary source if you wanna get scientific on me, do it right.
but the fact that you linked me to a secondary source assuming this is "the study", makes me believe you just read the headline, cause that fit your narrative.
in fact not even the secondary source you cited gives you any argument against what i said, which was: "nobody forced them to not have natural hair ever".
I’m not going to argue that cause google can disprove that, all I’m doing is providing sources explains how natural hair effects black women. And just in general people with curlier hair are treated with bias just because of the hair that naturally grows out of their head
no google can not proof your position. you just look at arbitrary facts and come to your conclusion that you wanted to be true to begin with.
look at tattoos for example. it is very widely known that tattoos significantly reduce your employability. yet more and more people are getting tattoos beside the fact.
people are "forced" to not have tattoos in the same way you claim black people are "forced" to not have natural hair. they're not. and you have no way of arguig that. even from the source you picked there it is very clear that there is no amount of focre applied. if your employer doesn't like your hairstyle, don't work for that employer. simple as that. no force involved.
I read it all. It's more of you trying to tell someone about their experience. As I stated before, when you have kids being sent home and HR contacting people over hairstyles, then it IS force. It becomes a "either change your hair or..." situation. And that you can so plainly say to just not work there lets me know that you're out of touch. Because if my skills are up to par and I am qualified for the job, then my hair shouldn't be a factor. At all.
@ShaTTeredMasterpeace i'm not telling anyone about their experience. i'm saying that "nobody was forced to "not" have their natural hair", which is true. and you can bring all the statistical arguments you want about people being less likely to have a job or whatever. that does not contradict my point. i use words according to their meaning. you don't. when you don't get a job, cause the employer didn't like how you look, you assume it's "structural social oppression". i just move on to the next. that's the difference.
and i don't invalidate your experience at all. it's not like i said that it doesn't happen that you're not allowed to work in certain places with a certain style. though "force" is quite a different thing to that.
@genericname85 so there is statistical and anecdotal data that people have been forced to change their natural to earn a livelihood (if that isn't force I don't know what it is) and you are standing by nobosy ever forced them to not have theor natural hair ever. Just so we understand. And picking and sources is just deflecting.
nobody has agency about how you style your hair. only you have. force would be if the police came, kicked down your door and shaved your head (i'm exaggerating of course). you are free to express yourself in any way you want. though in CERTAIN professions, CERTAIN styles are not welcome. i have to abide by that rule as well, believe it or not. it's not forcing me to have a certain style. it's me making the free will decision to change my style for that job. not force.
you know in conscription, men are forced to shave their hair. that is "force", cause you don't get out of conscription and you're not free to keep long hair.
as long as women aren't conscribed, or in other way having their hairstyle altered by "force" without having a choice themself, you don't have a point.
It’s because a lot of people don’t know what to do with their natural hair so companies obviously exploit that into making products overpriced and misleading
If they don't can't manage natural hair without the use of purpose-built expensive hair products, then they probably shouldn't start a movement predicated on "embracing natural hair". As @JamesRandiDebates points out, it's an oxymoron. And social movements based on contradictory oxymorons create more confusion than anything.
When did you even hear me say anything about people not being able to maintain their natural hair without expensive hair products?
Please don’t put words in my mouth that where never said, I said big business and companies do this to make money. Statistically speaking black women spend a shit ton of money on their hair so the market is big business and part of the natural hair ligament is finding how to maintain you hair since everyone’s natural hair is different. So that people can fall in love with their natural hair.
Now I don’t expect you to understand the movement if you aren’t black or a women for that matter but could you not try to invalidate people that support the movement/ other people’s struggle with their natural hair especially if it’s a struggle you yourself will never go threw. At least try to educate yourself before trying to invalidate a movement.
And on a side note this wasn’t even the question I was asking, I asked what people thought it the influx of black people wearing their natural hair because of the natural hair movement. That’s all, so this tangent you’re going on about me saying movement is unnecessary.
"When did you even hear me say anything about people not being able to maintain their natural hair without expensive hair products?"
Literally in your previous comment. Yes I paraphrased a little. The point stands though. Don't make an entire movement about being "natural" when ithe follow-through is entirely contingent upon man-made interventions. (ie: expensive hair products).
But okay let's say we agree that 'big business' is cynically cashing in on a movement whose original intent had nothing to do with consuming any particular products. When there's enough money to be made, beauty companies will cash in on any and every beauty trend, even at the risk of bastardising the original message of the trend/'movement'. (pick whichever term best applies.)
Regardless, it doesn't make it any less ironic that a "natural" promoting movement has become effectively dependent on man-made solutions (even if their constituent ingredients are naturally derived, which may well be the case). I didn't have any axe to grind in my original comment. I was just pointing out the irony behind the matter at hand, based on the context given by your OP.
"part of the natural hair ligament is finding how to maintain you hair since everyone’s natural hair is different. So that people can fall in love with their natural hair."
Sorry but that just seems like consumerism with extra steps. I tried out several body washes before finding the one that best suits my sensitive skin. But I didn't form an entire social movement around sensitive skin care. I'm sure there's some other context for this movement that I'm missing, but "what you see is all there is", and I just can't see past the irony of the whole thing. No disrespect intended by that, it's just what I see from where I'm standing.
"At least try to educate yourself before trying to invalidate a movement."
I'm neither validating it nor invalidating it. People are free to follow whatever movements they like. I just find it contradictory to say its a "natural" movement, when it essentially just provides marketers with a new in-road to hawking overpriced beauty products.
I’m not going to explain this anymore since it’s wasting my time and you guys aren’t getting the point. If you want more to info on this than a lot of youtubers explain it well
Because of the history of black women not being able to wear their natural hair out because of risk not getting a job since natural hair used to be seen as “unprofessional” and still kind of is. And the whole point of the movement is to embrace your natural hair despite whatever stigma might be behind it
I must be older than my own mother then. Because I’ve been turned down before because of my natural hair having dreadlocks because it was seen as “unprofessional” for their company image. And turned down from a job I had good qualifications for all because “I didn’t look like their target audience” and they wanted to make their clients comfortable by presenting them with people they can “identify with”. Both places got hit with discrimination law suits. One current got closed down in 2017 and the second is actually still in court. My point being is that as long as I don’t stink, dressed like an idiot, or is dumb if I meet the qualifications for a job or not... my skin color or my hair should not ever be a reason is deciding to hire anyone.
Coily natural hair types can appear frizzy naturally because the curls aren’t defined. And if you’re so adamant about natural hair being clean, if you actually did your research on curly hair you’d realize that the curlier your hair is the harder it is for oil to trap in, meaning your hair won’t get oily and dirty as fast.
Appearing frizzy and being actually frizzy are also 2 different things anyone can also differentiate. So really what you should also research is the difference between those two if you are such a googlealeck. And that is for strawmanning assuming i dont accept your curls. No. Im saying frizz not curl. Of course there is always pros and cons of every hair type. Kinky hair isng the only one.
But really i thought you are encouraging them to take care of it properly but then you're saying it's hard? You're just going to contradict everything at the end do you?
Having frizzy hair doesn’t necessarily mean anything’s wrong with your hair. And I’m saying that the movement is filled with people educating other people how to take care of their natural hair. Because it’s hard for most people
Taking care of your hair means minimizing your frizz as much as possible and anyone can actually see anyone trying to make effort. And you see you just said the theory again which is basically just marketing actually and not what the practice demonstrates
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
76Opinion
its a good thing. what's so bad about liking and supporting yourself
What do I think? Honestly, I think that people should do what they want to do with their hair to feel good about themselves. Embrace who you are, and love what you have.
Only Americans could come up with something that stupid and pointless.
It's hair. Why does it have to be some kind of statement
It wasn’t made by Americans. If you actually read my statement is was made by African Americans. I’m not sure why a movement offends you? Just because you don’t find it important doesn’t mean it isn’t important to others. This movement is actually quite popular
Because a lot of us used to get shit for wearing our natural hair and it was deemed as "unprofessional " just because our hair texture was different. I used to get shit on everyday because I wasn't able to "slick" my hair back.
Made by African americans... so americans.
I don't care if you're African/hispanic/Asian/white American. You're an American to me.
It was deemed unprofessional due to workplace standards I assume.
Yeah I used to get shit for my hair too. I didn't start a movement because of it.
I'm not offended, i just find it hilarious what you people come up with.
Um ok? Good for you. We started a movement and theirs no point in disrespecting it just because you find it “funny”. And I’m not sure what you consider being shit in for your hair is the same thing we’re talking about. Online theirs plenty of information on what the movements for. You not liking it doesn’t make the movement any less valid. And I’m not sure what you even mean by “you people”
Don’t bother, she’s trolling, trying her best to stir up some racial shit so she can cry about it, AND, she’s as dumb as a post, terrible reading comprehension.
I'm making fun of it for the same reason I'd make fun of a "wet socks movement".
I used to have an afro. I had naturally dense curls and was the only guy around with that type of hair. So you can imagine the type of stuff that was said to me.
By "you people" I mean you americans. Your not African anything. You weren't born there, you probably never went there, you don't speak your ancestral language or practice your ancestral customs.
You calling yourself "African American" makes about as much sense as me calling myself a ukranian slovene just because my ancestors migrated from there 1500 years ago. Actually it makes more sense for me to call myself "ukranian slovene" because at least I share folklore with them.
All you have is your skin color therefore , americans
@RCLJT yeah but unfortunately for her I'm from southern Europe. Race means less than nothing here. Which is why I'm calling her an American
@grega239 you do realize that I never once referred to myself as African American. I said I was black, and I’m Caribbean. Which doesn’t change the fact that I’m black.
I also could care less about Europe, that’s an entirely different topic.
As for @RCLJT you’re very bold, coming on my page obviously angry for god knows what. I suggest if you’re not going to bring up a worth while convo than you can leave rather than wasting your time commenting?
And it’s a very low blow on yourself for you, a grown man to call a 14 yr old on the internet dumb. This isn’t elementary school, you aren’t hurting anyone’s feelings like that.
Your comments implied that you were.
Anyhow. My point still stands. It's a movement that politicized a specific style of hair and could only be thought of in america
Ok, good for you?
Because anyone born after 1980 has to feel “ special” be noticed and get their 15 minutes of fame, all attention whores, all us old timers want is to be left the fuck alone.
@doopayo "it wasn't made by americans. It was made by African americans" lol whats also hilarious is are you trying to say that African americans are not americans? Jeez i wonder how they got the title "African American" in the first place?
I never said that, I suggest you stop trying to not pick and try to make things a problem that aren’t a problem in the first place
Actually, i can give you a big reason why i nitpicked that one. So now you know that you have been using the wrong choice of words just like how you describe that movement as a different thing. So yes that is something relevant that you should be aware of. You are talking about marketing you're not talking about movement.
Another point will be, if a company actually encourages people with straight hair to care for their hair so that they will make more sales, would that be a new movement then? That's why it's pointless and even if that is what the theory said, the one that i should research, i just prove that theory wrong. Because it is called a movement instead of just basic marketing, you can't blame anyone why there are extremist hijacking that one
You’re misinformed about the subject that you’re talking about, just go and learn about the natural hair movement instead of getting made at me for asking a simple question
Easy for you to say when it's really ironic. Do you think you are really informed yourself? Or it seems to me you don't even understand what marketing really is but you just like to see it as a movement.
Ok sure but those products still exist for that hair and lets see how many of them would still buy it. They "do it for themselves" just like how girls wear makeup.
And of course truth would hurt. I love that down vote already.
You don’t understand what the movement is, I suggest you do your own research.
Yeah sure just dismiss everything by saying "you don't understand what the movement is" Do you even understand what "practice" vs "theory" means? Basically like what body positivity. They don't have to lose weight they say because they "love" their bodies that they just don't bother working out. No body is saying you should buy those expensive natural hair products but at least take care of it properly if you wanna be professional. But like what I said, those products will still exist and girls who use those are just "doing it for themselves" making the standards go higher.
I dismissed everything because you made no new or ground breaking points that are worth bringing up. I’m not obligated to teach you about natural hair, so if you’re so interested on the topic many resources are online at your disposal
And just like that, you think you're being truthful now yet you never gave a valid point. My point still stands actually. Curly natural hair acceptance is not frizz acceptance.
And if you think i don't know that movement, I basically just debunked that one for you.
Extremely kinky curly hair is naturally tightly coiled and not defined for the most part
And the natural hair movement encourages you to use products, just products that suit your hair type
And sure that's like a common instinct and not only for anyone who has natural hair so that's not necessarily a movement. People with straight hair also use products that is for straight hair. So yes what you're saying is the theory but practice is what im talking about which actions speaks louder than words. Some of them just likes their fizzy hair and encourages it by not using any of those "expensive" products you're talking about. The "just products for your hair"
Which they call "expensive and oppressive"
You definitely don’t know what you’re talking about. Just because your hair is curly doesn’t mean it’s just curly, hair is much more complex than that. And at the end of the day if you don’t like it than that’s ok. It doesn’t mean that other people can’t like it, and the movement is posative so I’m not sure how you’re getting all these fake negatives out of a movement you know nothing about
And do you even know what you're talking about? I can also say the same thing. Again i am going by the practice instead of the theory. Anyone can also say communism is good because in theory it is until they demonstrated it. What you're talking about is basicly just common sense. If you have a kinky hair you look for products for kinky hair. How is it different for someone with a straight hair looking for a straight hair product?
You know you have been trying to dismiss argument like few replies ago i see you fail miserably. If you really know what you're talking about then why can't you even take your own words?
Or a more accurate way to consider what you describe about that movement is it is more of a marketing than a movement. I'm not even saying it a bad thing but i'm just think it's misleading. Like using the wrong word to describe not kind of act.
It really isn’t that deep. It’s just a natural hair movement. If you want to learn more about it than you can do your own research
Who is saying it is deep? I told you because i have research about it, i already debunk that for you. How about you yourself go learn what theory vs practice really means? I guess it's only because i actually made a point? You can think deeply about it my point remains truthful
If you actually researched about it than you’d at least have a basic understanding of what the natural hair movement is about, instead of debating completely irrelevant subjects to prove your point to something that I’ve literally said I wasn’t arguing?
Then you would have at least also have the basic understanding of how i debunked that one. You can keep repeating your ad hominems, like trying to dismiss argument saying i don't understand anything. The main point i said doesn't really change it it still stands. I read it a lot of times and i've also read how marketing works and their pretty close. Is also easy to strawman like what you do like saying if you really know marketing yourself then you should know that. But with your logic, does not make me truthful now?
If you're not really arguing then why do you keep trying to prove me wrong which you have been failing to do miserably?
I’m not even trying to prove you wrong because it’d be pointless and it’d just be like talking to a wall as you don’t really seem open for discussion. Which is why I said you can do your own research if you’re so interested on the subject
If you just want to look for excuse dislikes saying it's pointless then why are you even here? I see, it's now that when someone just made a point you're just going to say that. Also i can't keep repeating that i'm already read what it's about and that is why i have already debunked it for you.
So you’ve read one article about it and are still angry about a movement that you quite literally know nothing about? This is probably the most least harmful movement ever so I’m not sure why you take offense to it, find better problems
You assume i only read one oracle and angry about the movement. A sumptuous doesn't really prove you anything and they are just based on your feelings perhaps you're angry because i actually made a point. And was the point even talking about abolishing that movement and shame anyone who supports it? No. All i'm saying is that a pointless movement and it's miss worded. So instead of asking me what about ask yourself why are you angry? What's your point asking this question anyway? Validation?
Yes, I don't know why but I just don't like straight hair
The afro, rougher I don't know hair is just so me
I'm white, I have my preferences
I couldn't care less, let them style their hair however they want.
I don't care. I live in Los Angeles and most professional black women I see have braids, fros, or their hair is cropped closely to their heads.
I don't have a clue what that is or what's going. All I can say is that girl is absolutely beautiful
Afro hair looks good on them so it’s fine, but they should do what they want not what they are told.
i don't get it. nobody ever forced them to "not" have natural hair ever.
LOL.
This is a grossly misinformed opinion.
Black people and the tacit disapproval of theor natural haor textire has a very long and storied history.
This ^^ is based
@doopayo based? On what?
Uhh, do some research ASAP. Kids have been sent home from school, people have been fired from job... and all for wearing their natural hair or ethnic styles.
@Coulis oh no, I just meant that you’re speaking facts
www.jbhe.com/.../
Here’s a study that’s been done
Black women report being 30 percent more likely to receive a formal grooming policy in the workplace. Additionally, the study found that some natural African-American hairstyles, such as locs, braids, and natural curls, are perceived as less professional.
Black women were 80 percent more likely to change their hairstyle to meet societal and workplace expectations.
For the study, the CROWN Coalition surveyed 2,000 United States women aged 24 to 64 who worked in office settings. When shown two images of a Black woman and White woman with the same hairstyle, respondents typically rated the White woman as 25 percent higher in “job readiness” than the Black woman. The results also found that Black women were 1.5 times more likely to have reported having been sent home or knew another Black women who was sent home because of her hair.
@doopayo Ah ok. I didn't understand
@doopayo Yeah I know there is so much stats in this. And this isn't even getting to slavery, passing for white in segregated America and the internalised black racism re good hair.
Right! But if we talk about the impacts of slavery most people on this app would malfunction 😭
@doopayo Girl they already melting down.
Lmaoo fr
@doopayo you didn't lik me a study. you linked me to a news article about the source, which is a secondary source if you wanna get scientific on me, do it right.
but the fact that you linked me to a secondary source assuming this is "the study", makes me believe you just read the headline, cause that fit your narrative.
in fact not even the secondary source you cited gives you any argument against what i said, which was: "nobody forced them to not have natural hair ever".
I’m not going to argue that cause google can disprove that, all I’m doing is providing sources explains how natural hair effects black women. And just in general people with curlier hair are treated with bias just because of the hair that naturally grows out of their head
no google can not proof your position. you just look at arbitrary facts and come to your conclusion that you wanted to be true to begin with.
look at tattoos for example. it is very widely known that tattoos significantly reduce your employability. yet more and more people are getting tattoos beside the fact.
people are "forced" to not have tattoos in the same way you claim black people are "forced" to not have natural hair. they're not. and you have no way of arguig that. even from the source you picked there it is very clear that there is no amount of focre applied. if your employer doesn't like your hairstyle, don't work for that employer. simple as that. no force involved.
*despite the fact.
You sound so ignorant. Good lord.
@ShaTTeredMasterpeace you sound like you have not read my last argument.
I read it all. It's more of you trying to tell someone about their experience. As I stated before, when you have kids being sent home and HR contacting people over hairstyles, then it IS force. It becomes a "either change your hair or..." situation. And that you can so plainly say to just not work there lets me know that you're out of touch. Because if my skills are up to par and I am qualified for the job, then my hair shouldn't be a factor. At all.
@ShaTTeredMasterpeace i'm not telling anyone about their experience. i'm saying that "nobody was forced to "not" have their natural hair", which is true. and you can bring all the statistical arguments you want about people being less likely to have a job or whatever. that does not contradict my point. i use words according to their meaning. you don't. when you don't get a job, cause the employer didn't like how you look, you assume it's "structural social oppression". i just move on to the next. that's the difference.
and i don't invalidate your experience at all. it's not like i said that it doesn't happen that you're not allowed to work in certain places with a certain style. though "force" is quite a different thing to that.
@genericname85 so there is statistical and anecdotal data that people have been forced to change their natural to earn a livelihood (if that isn't force I don't know what it is) and you are standing by nobosy ever forced them to not have theor natural hair ever. Just so we understand. And picking and sources is just deflecting.
nobody has agency about how you style your hair. only you have. force would be if the police came, kicked down your door and shaved your head (i'm exaggerating of course). you are free to express yourself in any way you want. though in CERTAIN professions, CERTAIN styles are not welcome. i have to abide by that rule as well, believe it or not. it's not forcing me to have a certain style. it's me making the free will decision to change my style for that job. not force.
you know in conscription, men are forced to shave their hair. that is "force", cause you don't get out of conscription and you're not free to keep long hair.
as long as women aren't conscribed, or in other way having their hairstyle altered by "force" without having a choice themself, you don't have a point.
Ah ok. So I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that you are just choosing to miss the point.
Fr, this is just sad
The irony of a natural hair movement hawking overpriced hair products... 🙄
It’s because a lot of people don’t know what to do with their natural hair so companies obviously exploit that into making products overpriced and misleading
If they don't can't manage natural hair without the use of purpose-built expensive hair products, then they probably shouldn't start a movement predicated on "embracing natural hair". As @JamesRandiDebates points out, it's an oxymoron. And social movements based on contradictory oxymorons create more confusion than anything.
When did you even hear me say anything about people not being able to maintain their natural hair without expensive hair products?
Please don’t put words in my mouth that where never said, I said big business and companies do this to make money. Statistically speaking black women spend a shit ton of money on their hair so the market is big business and part of the natural hair ligament is finding how to maintain you hair since everyone’s natural hair is different. So that people can fall in love with their natural hair.
Now I don’t expect you to understand the movement if you aren’t black or a women for that matter but could you not try to invalidate people that support the movement/ other people’s struggle with their natural hair especially if it’s a struggle you yourself will never go threw. At least try to educate yourself before trying to invalidate a movement.
And on a side note this wasn’t even the question I was asking, I asked what people thought it the influx of black people wearing their natural hair because of the natural hair movement. That’s all, so this tangent you’re going on about me saying movement is unnecessary.
"When did you even hear me say anything about people not being able to maintain their natural hair without expensive hair products?"
Literally in your previous comment. Yes I paraphrased a little. The point stands though. Don't make an entire movement about being "natural" when ithe follow-through is entirely contingent upon man-made interventions. (ie: expensive hair products).
But okay let's say we agree that 'big business' is cynically cashing in on a movement whose original intent had nothing to do with consuming any particular products. When there's enough money to be made, beauty companies will cash in on any and every beauty trend, even at the risk of bastardising the original message of the trend/'movement'. (pick whichever term best applies.)
Regardless, it doesn't make it any less ironic that a "natural" promoting movement has become effectively dependent on man-made solutions (even if their constituent ingredients are naturally derived, which may well be the case). I didn't have any axe to grind in my original comment. I was just pointing out the irony behind the matter at hand, based on the context given by your OP.
"part of the natural hair ligament is finding how to maintain you hair since everyone’s natural hair is different. So that people can fall in love with their natural hair."
Sorry but that just seems like consumerism with extra steps. I tried out several body washes before finding the one that best suits my sensitive skin. But I didn't form an entire social movement around sensitive skin care. I'm sure there's some other context for this movement that I'm missing, but "what you see is all there is", and I just can't see past the irony of the whole thing. No disrespect intended by that, it's just what I see from where I'm standing.
"At least try to educate yourself before trying to invalidate a movement."
I'm neither validating it nor invalidating it. People are free to follow whatever movements they like. I just find it contradictory to say its a "natural" movement, when it essentially just provides marketers with a new in-road to hawking overpriced beauty products.
Is this what's called nappy headed hos?
I’m not going to explain this anymore since it’s wasting my time and you guys aren’t getting the point. If you want more to info on this than a lot of youtubers explain it well
Well you asked our opinions, I gave you mine, so make of it what you will.
Who cares? Wear what you want. Have whatever hair you want. Why does there have to be a movement for it lol
Because of the history of black women not being able to wear their natural hair out because of risk not getting a job since natural hair used to be seen as “unprofessional” and still kind of is. And the whole point of the movement is to embrace your natural hair despite whatever stigma might be behind it
Hasn't happened in over 50 years, y'all always living in the past when you could move forward its the stupidest thing lol
www.shondaland.com/.../
Just because it doesn’t effect you doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I must be older than my own mother then. Because I’ve been turned down before because of my natural hair having dreadlocks because it was seen as “unprofessional” for their company image. And turned down from a job I had good qualifications for all because “I didn’t look like their target audience” and they wanted to make their clients comfortable by presenting them with people they can “identify with”. Both places got hit with discrimination law suits. One current got closed down in 2017 and the second is actually still in court. My point being is that as long as I don’t stink, dressed like an idiot, or is dumb if I meet the qualifications for a job or not... my skin color or my hair should not ever be a reason is deciding to hire anyone.
If it looks good on someone, no problem. If it doesn't, change it.
The attractiveness of the hair on the individual trumps the politics of race.
Afros... 1960s all over again.
I liked it then and still like it today. However it looks better on some girls than others.
Anything that encourages people to express themselves how they want, is cool in my book.
I don’t give damn what y’all do!
What you’ve been doing forever, with your hair is ****** Racial Appropriation ****** 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Um.. ok?
I don't like the look and I don't want to be shamed because I don't like it.
I don't understand. What's "un-natural" hair for African americans?
Natural hair just refers to the natural hair that grows on your head
Again - unlike what?
I’m confused at what you mean by unlike what?
Black women will never accept their black African culture. They will never like their hair.
True, I don’t like my hair either.
Never is a strong word. And the movement is meant for people with curly hair to accept their curls and love them
Sure but it doesn't mean accept your fizz.
*Frizz
Coily natural hair types can appear frizzy naturally because the curls aren’t defined. And if you’re so adamant about natural hair being clean, if you actually did your research on curly hair you’d realize that the curlier your hair is the harder it is for oil to trap in, meaning your hair won’t get oily and dirty as fast.
Appearing frizzy and being actually frizzy are also 2 different things anyone can also differentiate. So really what you should also research is the difference between those two if you are such a googlealeck. And that is for strawmanning assuming i dont accept your curls. No. Im saying frizz not curl. Of course there is always pros and cons of every hair type. Kinky hair isng the only one.
But really i thought you are encouraging them to take care of it properly but then you're saying it's hard? You're just going to contradict everything at the end do you?
Having frizzy hair doesn’t necessarily mean anything’s wrong with your hair. And I’m saying that the movement is filled with people educating other people how to take care of their natural hair. Because it’s hard for most people
Taking care of your hair means minimizing your frizz as much as possible and anyone can actually see anyone trying to make effort. And you see you just said the theory again which is basically just marketing actually and not what the practice demonstrates
I love natural hair. Not so much for movements as I've allways considered them a sign of weakness. You like what you like.