The 3 Most Useless Gender Role Arguments

[Anonymous]

1. Femininity vs. Masculinity

If you're a girl and you wear pants and have short hair, that doesn't make you a man or less feminine. If you are man who has long flowing hair and you're a stay at home dad--doesn't make you less masculine. There is no such thing any more that really defines these things in this century. People are doing just about everything, breaking all the stereotypes, and the switching of so called traditional roles is far more accepted.

2. A woman should be in the kitchen, and a man at work

There may be some societal or cultural pressure for this to be your life, but for the most part this boils down to individual couple and what they want. If some woman wants to be in the kitchen all day and her man goes to the job...and they are both fine with this arrangement, than so be it. Trying to lecture them about the evolution of mankind into this century is useless. Some people just want that life just like you may never cook a chicken, and you may be the bread winner in your household.

3. Men and women are the same

We're just not. We are just not the same. Physically, mentally, emotionally, what have you. Can a man get pregnant---still no. There are differences from here to the moon and back again, but no one wants to just accept that they exist. This doesn't mean you somehow can't do what the other gender does or doesn't do in many instances, it just means fighting about how we're all so incredibly equal in every single way, does not make it so.

[Ratiocinative]

1. Umm. Of course it does. Testosterone and Estrogen determine masculine and feminine traits. Testosterone makes you more muscular, lower pitched voice, grow more facial hair, makes you more aggressive, gives you a sharper jaw line, etc. Estrogen makes you like feeling beautiful, emotional, grow breasts, wider hips, makes you want to be nurturing and care for people (like kids), makes you feel vulnerable and want to be protected, etc. You obviously slept through biology class.

2. No one says women HAVE to stay at home in the kitchen, but Estrogen makes women enjoy doing things like taking care of a home and raising children. When surveyed the majority of women themselves even say they feel happiest when staying at home taking care of the kids while their husband earns a living. No one says that is true about ALL women, but it is true about most women. It's biological.

3. Of course they are not. The people arguing the are the same are the people that agree with your point #1 and #2. You're just contradicting yourself.

[KINGNIGGA123]

agreed

[CrystalChild]

I don't think you understood his point in the first one. If I interpreted it correctly, he's saying certain fashion and interests aren't inherently masculine or feminine, or at least they don't need to be.

The second argument is not really valid in todays world. The average woman's interests is being less and less in the home and more in the work force. I am not saying whether or not this is good, I just don't agree most women are content in the "kitchen", especially the rising generation.

Food for thought

[KINGNIGGA123]

@CrystalChild well I've never heard any male say women should stays in the kitchen. And women these days just want to be on the same oefel as men. Even statistically speaking men work more difficult and dangerous jobs and we work longer hours. Not sayin women don't do that either. vut men do it more. And my mother even stated if my father made very god money shoe would be happy staying home and not always working. I guess it's different to every female.

[CrystalChild]

@KINGNIGGA123 men do work more dangerous jobs but women typically work the longest hours because many take care of the small children Wich is a never-ending job. That aside , I don't think, at least for me, women want to be on the same level as men in that they want the same job and same abilities, they just want to be respected the same amount men are. Women don't want to be downgraded because of their gender. Don't really see that as a high demand. Pretty standard basic human rights

[KINGNIGGA123]

@CrystalChild actually your facts are wtong. Men also work longer hours than women. Yes you take care of the babies but whose gonna bring the money home. Most women take a leave so they can stay home and take care of the kids.

[KINGNIGGA123]

Plus there are loads of jobs that men do that women don't dop. Not because it's sexism but because either you can't do it as good a males or women generally prefer not tp. Such as mechanics engineering or electrical engeneering, plastic surgury, and even tools maker where its %99.1 entirely made up of men. Women these days are not being held back, your holding yourself back because your not sure of it will work. Anyway I think inhave made my point.

[CrystalChild]

@KINGNIGGA123 I disagree. Thsrr are PLENTY of single mothers who manage both raising kids and having a job. More now than ever before. Also just because women aren't interested in a professional doesn't mean they couldn't excel in it. And yes there still is sexism within the job industry. I actually seriously wanted to apprentice as a mechanic because it interests me and based on my old car, I was pretty decent at it from instinct. But do you really think anyone is going to give me a chance? No way. I'd have to fight and scream just to be an apprentice. I'm not weak either. I grew up poor so often times on the weekend id work for my dad. This includes moving very heavy objects like large amounts of plywood and machinery, roofing , laquoring , sanding, nailing. Plus I had home work too like digging hue holes and planting trees, raking, moving boulders etc. I think it's more that women aren't expected or treated like they can do other jobs and they're too complacent to do anything about

[KINGNIGGA123]

@CrystalChild maybe they didn't hire you because... Your decent at it. And you are probably exaggerating it. Plus we are not talking about single mothers.

[CrystalChild]

@KINGNIGGA123 I didn't go for it because no one would apprentice a woman let's be real. I've tried out for manual labour jobs, things I AM very good at due to my upbringing but no one would hire me because of my gender. No one would even take an interview and they hadn't even seen me.

[KINGNIGGA123]

@CrystalChild well maybe they just found someone better. And I would even feel uncomfortable if a woman was to be a mechanical engineer or whatever the job u said. It's just not something you see everyday. Deal with you life... Have fun

[ElissaDido]

I just think that people should focus on themselves and stop trying to force their ideals on others.
If a woman wants to be career driven then good for her! We shouldn't try to put her "back in the kitchen", and if a woman wants to be a traditional housewife, then good for her too! We shouldn't force her "out of the kitchen".

[KINGNIGGA123]

no one says women should be in the damn kitchen!! i even just asked my mother on her opinion on staying home whilst dad works. and she says as long as he's bringing dam good money in she ould happily stay home. i mean why tf do women want to prove them selfs by rather working and not rather staying home and still livin a happy life.

but that not to all women

[Zendrya]

the point of arguing gender roles is not because we think men and women are equal in all ways. We aren't talking about physical differences... (giving birth, having periods, growing facial hair) that would be sex roles which is different from gender roles. The whole point of going against gender roles is just to say, either gender can cook supper, look after the kids, be an engineer, like cars, like disney princesses... What's so wrong with everyone just doing what makes them happy (as long as no one is being harmed)?

[Bandit74]

1. Well what would make someone less masculine or less feminine? Can a man wear dresses and makeup yet still be considered as masculine as the guy in a football jersy?

If the only thing required to be masculine or feminine is to idenetify as such then they are kind of meaningless labels in my opinion.

2. Who even says that?
I have heard people say it as a joke or in an attempt to piss off a feminist, but I have never met someone who legitimately belived that women belong in the kitchen.

[ProjectBaby1K]

Your third point dissolved both your first two points. We shouldn't get rid of concepts of femininity/masculinity & The household gender roles are important and severely needed today.

The only point I agree with is number three, since men and women are not the same.

[alphadoggystyle]

exactly what i was going to say as well.

[myTake Owner]

I don't see how 3 dissolves any point. I clearly said that, saying we are not the same equally, doesn't mean a wo/man can't do what a wo/man does in some respects, i. e., a man can cook, and a woman can become a firefighter--however, there are still differences that exist whether someone wants to admit that or not. It's like saying a woman isn't as strong as a man---many cases that is true, but there are women who are in fact as strong as men who are in the same height/weight class and there are men that are weaker than the women in their same weight/height class. It depends who, the ability, and if it's even possible to do.

[alphadoggystyle]

yeah but those exceptions are so rare, that when you are trying to build a society based on two different genders, the expectations from each gender must be different and adapted based on the average man and average woman. And the average man is significantly stronger than the average woman, and the strongest man is far stronger than the strongest woman, vast majority of men are significantly stronger than vast majority of women, its to big of a difference to simply ignore and pretend that individuality is more important that looking at the gender norms at large.

[myTake Owner]

@alphadoggystyle That may be true, but to clamp down on every person and suggest that they can never do what the other gender is "assigned" to do serves what purpose? That only feeds into the ego of one gender over the other. Girls can't go to the moon because they have periods. This was a thing that was actually once said as finite. Now we have had several women in space and it has become the norm. In many countries, a man is not "supposed" to cook, but what if he has no wife and children to feed and there is no woman around. Are they supposed to die in a rural village because he's not allowed to boil a pot of water.

[myTake Owner]

Those teeny tiny exceptions to the rule can have major implications if we say to everyone, simply, stay in your lane because the margin of difference is so slim. You can accept that we are different, and still allow for the possibility that what we know is not just a fact of life either in some cases. Women alone have been told they couldn't be educated, they couldn't hold jobs, they couldn't be in offices of political power... these were all the norms. It was once insane to think a woman could do these things and it was rare for any woman to do them... and yet, here we all are.

[alphadoggystyle]

Its not so black and white as you claim it to be. just because we acknowledge that men are more capable on average does not mean that women are not given the same opportunities in todays society. Women are actually being encouraged more than men are, yet are still failing to perform as well in many areas. And whats wrong with some men having an ego when it is based on fact? Men are on average better than women, and we know it, but a decent guy is still going to treat a woman nicely and be respectful as long as she is nice herself. There will always be rude and bad people regardless, it doesn't matter how many times a president say we should respect women, there will always be people who won't, and especially since its a fact that men are better its very hard to hide that even though feminist propaganda is trying.

[ProjectBaby1K]

I think you misunderstand traditional household gender roles. Gender roles split household responsibilities in general to what man and woman are biologically better at. Are there exceptions to that rule? Yes there are. But exceptions don't disprove the entire rule.

You agreed that men and women are different, therefore there are certain tasks that we are respectively better fit to complete. So it's contradictory to admit that we are different yet say it doesn't matter which tasks we decide to complete. That's how your third point dissolved your first two.

These gender roles set a standard people of that time used to set up the responsibilities to men and women in a way that is efficient to be completed and be beneficial to the overall relationship. Removing gender roles can be, and has proven to be detrimental to a relationship.

[myTake Owner]

"Men are on average better than women, and we know it..." this is the precise ego I spoke of. If women had listened to this, we wouldn't ever have been able to vote, run marathons, or hold jobs, or offices in power. In some instances, it literally benefits one gender over the other to simply state as fact, even though it is clearly not true, that they are better suited towards or better fit for something because they seek to maintain power and status. This is the same logic racists, homophobes, sexists, ageists, etc. have used for years to try to convince others of their superiority because to acknowledge a challenge to this order, would suggest a loss of power and strength in their ability to hold court over and control everything under that particular heading. I don't want a woman to have an education, why, because that means they may soon obtain the same exact knowledge I have. I don't want a woman to be a policewoman, because that means she may also be capable of doing the job.

[myTake Owner]

It's not enough for one gender to simply state xyz as fact as to why they are superior in something because you have to look at who's claiming that, and why, and who benefits from it being true. As with number 2, in todays world, it depends on the couples. If they ascribe to traditional gender roles that may work very well for them, but if both do not, they can be just as functional as the ones who do. We are less of a sheep mentality these days where we are much more apt to consider the individual vs. the massess or a specific couple and what they need to survive. You can no more force traditional roles on persons who don't want them, then remove them from those who do.

[alphadoggystyle]

It doesn't matter if it is ego, because it is factually true, men are better than women on average. Nothing you say will ever change that fact. And women being in some positions of power today does not disprove that at all. I said men are better on average, and also today we have quotation laws and lowering of standards all the time to increase the numbers of women in all kinds of fields and positions. We have given women the same level of opportunity as men for many decades now. And we encourage them more than we do men. But when we look at the results men are outperforming women in most fields, its never going to be 50/50 as feminists want it to be, its simply not possible and we need to learn to accept that and not look at it as a bad thing.

[ProjectBaby1K]

Men have never been considered superior to women. I understand you want to believe that women were being chained barefoot to the kitchen and enslaved in the past, but that simply isn't true. We split household responsibilities based on what we're biologically better fit to complete. That's it.

Today we people have much more a sheep mentality then ever before in past. Many people simply regurgitate what they've been told rather than doing their research before concluding.

" If they ascribe to traditional gender roles that may work very well for them, but if both do not, they can be just as functional as the ones who do."

FALSE. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Simple research will show you that modern day people are more liberal rather than traditional. And further research will also show you that traditional relationships and marriages in the past were overall stronger than modern day relationships and marriages right now. This is supported by factual evidence.

[ProjectBaby1K]

& To answer your first response. All scientific discoveries and technological advancements were made by men and even continue to be made by men for the most part.

So in that regards alpha dog is right. And that's not to tell you that you're less than men and that you belong in the kitchen, it's to tell you that women are biologically their own enemy in the workforce. You may not want to hear this, but it's true. No one is holding you back.

[myTake Owner]

Did you actually imply that people simply don't look up facts and evidence in regards to your claims of male superiority and then you state in the same breath that men have discovered "everything" on the planet related to scientific discoveries and technological advancements?

I cannot take you seriously, and I'm certainly not taking seriously anyone who claims they are superior to someone else based on something like gender. These aren't facts at all and I highly suggest you do your own research before making false claims.

[alphadoggystyle]

sorry mytake owner but you are wrong. Men being superior to women is an indisputable and established fact. And i cannot take someone seriously who is in denial about that fact. Men have discovered pretty much all the major inventions and science. But more simple studies comparing the genders proficiency in various tasks in different ways have been done by both men and women, and the evidence has proven that men as a group are more productive, stronger, faster, more durable, and more intelligent on average compared to women as a group. This is fact and you better deal with it.

[ProjectBaby1K]

I see you didn't ever bother to retort the first post I replied? 😂 I take it you understand modern marriage is a joke compared to traditional marriage, that is statistically supported, there's no way to retort that, so I'll entertain what you replied instead.

Do all the historical research you need and you'll understand that we got to this modern day and age because of men. We've made all the technology to bring us to the 20th century of modernity. That is factual evidence, I don't see exactly where I'm wrong?

That's why you specifically insisted on not being told about evolutionary evidence for why gender roles where set in the way they were in the first place. Plus, I didn't say my gender is superior, alpha dog did. I believe we're both superior in the fields we're biologically better fit to handle, when you cross fields that's when a notion of superiority comes alive. Removing gender roles makes the genders comparable and does just that, make us superior to you.

[windknowsmyname]

I say who fucking cares, both are human, both live, both die. Make the best out of the 50 odd years we got on this planet. now for 1) you are who are anything after that is selling out. 2) yeah girls belong in the kitchen but we have chef Ramsey being better at it that some girls. Fuck out of here. Girls do what ever you like, guys don't care anyway. 3) We are the same in some ways and in most we are not. But end of the day she is still human and so is he so respect that.

[Anonymous]

Exactly - men and women ARE NOT the same. The question is, "as a whole has society gotten better or worse"? So what, you can vote. You can work where I work. You can run around naked. But how has feminism truly been a benefit to our society. What has your voting done for the nation. What has your employment done for the family unit. What has your nakedness done to empower human relationships. What has any of this truly done? But it doesn't matter what you say. This shit's just gonna get worse. It's already gotten worse. But fuck it let's go for the forth wave.

[KINGNIGGA123]

dont know if this comment as ust a roast or nah but i agree :)))

[Opinion Owner]

@KINGNIGGA123 100% Truth.

[candyaurora]

Apart from the employment thing I agree with you.

[candyaurora]

And actually the current voting system is BS for both genders.

[Opinion Owner]

@candyaurora Women don't "need" to work. They "want" to work. We don't need women in the work force. Pay men double and remove the women. Hire all the unemployed males and pay them double as well. We need mothers with our children. Children today are becoming personality disordered lunatics. But look at the family structure. Then again I'm talking about "structure". That word is obsolete. So never mind...

[Opinion Owner]

Kids are being raised by baby sitters, daycare, uncles, grand parents, brothers / sisters and sometimes even themselves.

[Opinion Owner]

This shit has got to stop.

[candyaurora]

What about extended maternity leaves? Pay women hourly? I mean what the hell am. I supposed to do with my engineering degree and talent if I dont have a job? But I agree women should take a break when a kid is little.

[KINGNIGGA123]

That's actually not a bad newer. I guess women want to show themselves as bring important.

[KINGNIGGA123]

As being important.

[CrystalChild]

So you are arguing women don't deserve rights? I don't understand your point.

[FlamingFire2428]

Amen to you. Another useless gender role argument is that men are supposed to be athletic while women don't have to be. Putting pressure on men to be what society wants them to be is wrong. It's okay if a boy isn't physically active. It's okay for a woman to be physically active. Men need to stop acting so surprised when they find a woman that is physically active. There isn't a law that binds this stuff!

[rushthesand]

in my opinion it doesn't matter anymore. The cost of living is such that it's pretty darn difficult to live on one person's income anyways. If a dude wants a house wife type, he better be well to do, or okay with losing a boat load during a potential divorce cuz she doesn't work. Same with a woman

[GraveTruth]

Let's talk about 2 for a second though.

When a women gets away from the stereotype kitchen, sewing, etc things and does work 99% of women just run and try to get pregnant to get away from working. Also when they do the stereotyped male gender roles such as gaming, skateboarding, mechanics, etc they promote and label themselves as a female (gamergirl). This only shows that women use break the gender role rule are sexist against their own gender.

[juliaanita]

"This only shows that women use break the gender role rule are sexist against their own gender"?

Learn to write a coherent sentence before you try to make an argument.

[GraveTruth]

@juliaanita Sure, 99.9% of all women on the planet cannot have little to no gender role skills anymore and they refuse to do anything. Mainly because they "shouldn't have to". On the other hand, modern men still often obtain the male gender roles skills as well as are learning the female gender role skills... because women don't do anything.
Modern women have gone as far as not even allowing themselves to take responsibility for ANY wrong doing and have placed all blame no men for everything.

If you want to break it down to simpler terms, here's a thought. What could men need women for nowadays?
SEX? yes
Affection? No, if a guy likes that then the woman doesn't respect the guy?
cooking, cleaning, parenting? No, no, maybe a little. Men have learned all of this stuff. Parenting is something men will never be able to be better at though (kangaroo care and stuff like that is impossible an impossible feat. for men)
No, no, no, no, and I can go on forever.

Is that coherent enough?

[juliaanita]

Yes, you cleaned up the grammar and syntax. Thank you. Your argument is still non sensical. At the very least you overgeneralize. 99.9%? On the whole planet?
Come on. Show me reputable statistics that support that argument, and I will believe the world is flat.
A good argument relies on strong facts, not hyperbole. Sounds to me like you are a little bitter about women.

[GraveTruth]

@juliaanita Reputible statistics? this isn't a school project. Take a look around the F-ing world.
Hell yeah I'm bitter about women. Mainly because women are awful the whole way around.
-Ever met a lady cop or any women with authority (F-ing devil ladies)?
-Ever seen a trial where a married couple kills some people and heard to sentence? (Karla holmoka?)
-Ever noticed the millions of articles, tips, and guides on teaching men how to be successful or workout anything when dealing with a woman
-Ever notice that it's ALWAYS a mans fault for everything. My favorite example is the "His problem is he's too nice".
WHO The FUCK should be blamed for being nice. then he's too rude.
How about when a woman does ANYTHING? How many lawyer women are married to guys who are construction workers in the world? ZERO.

Fuck the stats. take a look around. Take a look at your OWN relationship. Your guy owes you the whole world and you just dance around doing what you please.

[juliaanita]

wow-you are bitter. Bummer that you can't find some woman for yourself.

But its not surprising.

[GraveTruth]

@juliaanita I've had plenty of relationships and have been married as well. There's no need to talk like being nice gets a girls respect.

Most people would describe me as very capable to be empathetic, sensitive to feelings, honest, loyal, have morale integrity, emotionally supportive, faithful, and very compromising. Also, I have a 6 day workout routine. I'm very fit.

NONE of this has ANY longterm value to women though. In the beginning some girls think it's great to be with a guy who is honest but then because I don't mistreat a girlfriend they eventually feel that I'm not dominant. Then if a father dies and she really needs the perfect amount of personal space but also emotional support I'm there and a few months the woman things I'm a stupid faggot because Men are suppose to be tough and careless. Woman always try to desexualize men by throwing a baby in their arms and saying You two look so cute together" but then they lose respect for the guy.

Being good doesn't help with wome

[juliaanita]

With respect-not all women are like those you describe.

[Unit1]

"1. Femininity vs. Masculinity"
Heya! I am here with long hair and a big beard =)
This is my way of saying "Fluorine Uranium Carbon Potassium gender roles and gender standards. I do me."

"2. A woman should be in the kitchen, and a man at work"
I qualify this as sexism.

3. I will just say, that women and men are equal but biologically different with their ups and downs. Both can be united for more potential.

Good read!

[CrystalChild]

God why is this so hard for so many people to understand ^

[Unit1]

@CrystalChild Common sense is a treasure and not so common you know :P

At least you and I both know, that we are above those, who do not understand it.

[GarySummer]

Rather than getting rid of the concepts of femininty and masculinity, they just shouldn't be linked with gender. If a girl wants to be masculine, that's fine and shouldn't be looked down upon. Likewise if a guy wants to be more efeminiate and grow his hair long and wear bright or flowery clothing, or even wear a dress if he wants, he shouldn't be seen as any less of a man.

I completely agree on everything else you said.

[I-am-a-nobody]

This sounds good...
... to the brainwashed masses that our educational system turns out, but it's CRAZY. The whole idea of masculine and feminine are to distinguish the sexes. If a guy wears a bright flowery dress, he's in effect saying, "I want to be a woman" on some level. The girl who cuts her hair all butch and acts like a man, wants to be a man on some level.

[JuliaHarris]

@I-am-a-nobody And who decided what is masculine and what is feminine?

[I-am-a-nobody]

@JuliaHarris Well, if I were a single guy and I asked out someone with long flowing hair, wearing a bright flowery dress, I'd be real disappointed if they were a man!

[JuliaHarris]

@I-am-a-nobody Thats not an answer. You are complaining that masculinity and femininity is used to distinguish the sexes. If that's all it is, who decided what is masculine and what is feminine? Ask yourself why long hair isn't masculine. Because someone else before you were born said so and it stuck. If someone before you were born said the reverse and it stuck, you would be arguing the reverse.
With respect, you are just as brainwashed as the people that you are rallying against - just in a different way.

[I-am-a-nobody]

@JuliaHarris
OK, I guess long hair could be masculine and a lot of it has to do with what is generally accepted as masculine and feminine. In Scotland they wore kilts, so some things are based on the culture. In the 1950's, women pretty much didn't wear pants, but pants on a woman in the 60's was accepted. Mary Tyler Moore wore capri pants on the Dick Van Dyke Show and you could tell she was a woman. But the second I admit that, you'll have people saying the whole idea of masculine and feminine is a mere social construct and guys like Gary will want to wear a bright flowery dress! I mean... isn't it in society's best interest that men and women be distinct? You don't have a lot of guys here saying, "I hope I can marry a girl like my dear old dad."

I do think women (who are naturally more nurturing) are better off staying at home with the kids and if I'm in a burning building, I'd rather have a man come to my aid. Like you said men and women are different.

[TomasLyy]

I'm so fucking tired of these arguments (not yours), it's true women dont get true equality the worlds fucked up like that, but there's some people that represent the whole thing wrong and then that gives fucking whiney ass crackerass crackers a reason to whine about being triggered by "feminazis, and sjw" but they're just as bad actually even worse

[ADFSDF1996]

When most people speak about equality, I think they are talking about equal treatment not that men and women are exactly the same. Men and women are equal (deserve equal rights) but both have some differences.

[BrileyCat]

if religious stereotyping and dogma of genderisms that have enforced
gender roles for 1000's of years, did not do so, think how much better off
we'd all be today?

[Hidden_P]

I opened this expecting the usual gag bullshit and had my two guns at the ready.

THANK YOU FOR RESTORING MY HOPE IN THIS SITE.

I completely agree!!

[Anonymous]

Nobody needs to "argue" about "gender roles" because what you call gender roles are just natural sex differences. People will (usually) fit into those no matter what. Whether you like it or not.

And some of the stuff you wrote literally nobody ever says.

[Mr-Kabuki]

I think having long hair can actually look pretty manly in a medieval sense you know?

[Phoenix98]

I personally think more traditional roles are what is needed in the world, I agree with your 3rd point and your 1st point to a degree.

[AskYOUidiot]

2. Yes it used to be this way, but now that baby boomers have ruined single income homes, the majority of couple both have to work to be able to live life

[FatherJack]

Women & men are polar opposites...& poles apart in most respects , so correct there !!

[IHateBeingaMan]

for me its that guys always have to be the initiators that i hate, despise, loathe.