Confessions of a Ladies Man: Alpha Females want Alpha Males Too!

[Apope16]

I recently started dating an alpha female. Not sure why I attract them but I do. It is actually funny because on GAG I am really culturally controversial. There are some women who call me a misogynist or a woman hater. I am accused of "attacking women" in My Takes. But...I attract women like this woman. Feminist, artsy, hipster types who are independent and blunt.

One night we were spooning in her bed. At 2:30am someone banged on her door. The motion alarms went off. It isn't a good neighborhood with drug deals and such. It was my second time at her place and our second date. I was scared.

I thought about going to the window or the door just on pure male protective instinct. But she was this alpha female "Leave me alone women can do it too" type of chic. So I just laid there holding her and kissing her. She turned on her phone and saw the camera footage of some woman in a hoodie.

I just laid there. Didn't go to the door. This was her home. She was in charge.

The next day she wanted to have a "talk". She said that she was upset that I didn't answer the door. She said she didn't know why. We agreed to talk about it the next day.

She is white and I am black.

So, I thought about it. The next day I told her that I failed her. I said that men are biologically herders, hunters, and protectors. Women are biologically nesters. I told her I failed her as a man. I explained that was why she was turned off and wasn't attracted. Sure women are capable, I told her, but their biological instinct of attraction is for a man to be the protector and to be resourceful.

I know you are a feminist and this kills all libido for me, I said. I hope we can be friends. She just laughed and said that me coming over to talk and explain deep thoughts to her made her horny. She said she wanted to "rip my clothes off". We chatted more about gender over coughed. Then we fucked.

Feminist alpha males want men who play their gender roles too!

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

I never understood why people even use those stupid "alpha" and "beta" labels to describe people. We're not animals that react purely upon our instincts. We are humans that are capable of making choices, feeling emotions, and thinking logically. The decisions that we make are not required to be based solely on what's "biological." Simply put, I don't use labels such as those to describe me. I'm a woman that knows what she wants in relationships. I value confidence, maturity, sex appeal, and social skills in men. I also provide for myself because I'm an adult and that's what adults do. This doesn't make me "alpha" or "beta." It simply makes me a woman with preferences and responsibilities like any other woman. Also, I can't take any man that describes himself as an "alpha male" seriously. If anything, I wouldn't be attracted. I would cringe because it makes him come off as a guy that spends way too much time on the internet looking too much into relationship stuff and trying to mold himself into being the "right" guy. We can tell when guys are trying too hard.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

"I value confidence, maturity, sex appeal, and social skills in men"

you value those traits because evolution selected for them over millions of years. So in trying to debunk the existence of "alpha males", you've actually just proved its existence.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@SomeGuyCalledTom: Well, in that sense, "alpha male" is nothing more than a subjective term that can describe any man. Either way, I still can't take any man seriously that actually uses that label. I find it more attractive when a man considers confidence, maturity, sex appeal, and social skills in men to be HIS characteristics rather than "alpha male" characteristics.

[TruthBringer]

@SomeGuyCalledTom BOOM NAILED IT.
And I hate to break it to you @Tiffany_Taylor_Made but these terms are there for a reason. Oh, and yes we ARE animals.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

I'm not talking about men who go around calling themselves "alpha males". I'm talking about men who have a proclivity to sit atop social hierarchies through the precise embodiment of traits you yourself deemed to be most attractive. And of course is does not work as a descriptor for "all" men, because all men do not embody those traits equally. Its not even close to equal. And there's a whole bunch of very complicated reasons WHY it's not close to equal. If you could have your pick of the MOST confident, MOST mature, MOST sexually appealing, and MOST socially skilled men, then by definition those men would be the "alphas", by your own preconscious evaluations. And if a bunch of other women are also doing similar preconscious calculations of men's viability as sexual mates, then those similarities become THE golden benchmark for what society goes on to retroactively call "alpha male traits".

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: These terms exist because men on the internet made them up to make themselves feel more macho and desirable. Also, I know that humans are animals. I never said we weren't. I said that humans aren't animals that react purely upon instincts.
@SomeGuyCalledTom: What you're doing is literally labeling men with (those) ideal characteristics as "alpha males." The fact you're doing this only proves my point that the term is subjective. You're speaking like an objective definition of "alpha" exists when it doesn't. You can literally take any "ideal" characteristic, attribute it to men, and call it "alpha." I can't take that seriously. Confidence, maturity, sex appeal, and social skills are also subjective terms, meaning that one's view of these things can differ depending on the person's preferences. My view of a confident, sexually appealing, socially skilled, and mature man can could be completely different to another woman's view. Thus, you can't accurately measure which person has the "most" of those characteristics, or even assume that biology is relevant because, unlike those traits, biology is objective. My preferences could very well be sociological rather than biological and you have no real way of knowing for sure. My point is, regardless of whether you find the term "alpha male" useful if your subjective view, I don't. To me, it's just a useless label that describes other animals better than humans.

[TruthBringer]

@Tiffany_Taylor_Made "Google Scholar can only provide a rough estimate, of course, but it returns 11 research mentions of “alpha male” between 1900 and 1950, and about 2,220 for the period between 1950 and 2000. Google Books shows a similar trend: The term barely existed in books until 1960 " The internet was invented in the 1960. So your claim that men on the internet made the term is invalid and it shows you're on the wishful thinking train. And the term is subjective and yet often accurately used to describe certain characteristics. So it's not supposed to be taken literally. So it doesn't mean that the usage of it is incorrect. The onyl problem is that the specific interpretations vary among people, time and environments. But all in all, it leads to the same general interpretation. The term "Alpha male" is also shown in the Oxford Learner's dictionary. Alas, many sources that don't support your claim.

nymag.com/.../the-rise-of-the-alpha-beta-male.html

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/.../alpha-male

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: "Alpha male" is a term that has been used to describe other animals for a long time, long before the internet. I already know that and wasn't implying that. The majority of those Google Scholar links you posted are related to animals rather than people. The way that "alpha male" is used today to describe certain men is a more recent thing that was popularized on the internet. That's not "wishful thinking" sweety; that's a fact. It's been used online to sell books to quiet, nerdy guys by convincing them that they're "beta" because they're quiet and nerdy, and how to change themselves. Sure, the term can "accurately" describe certain characteristics because subjectivity is often very accurate because of its basis on personal opinion, but still, it's useless because those characteristics can literally be ANYTHING ideal and attributed to men. To me, that's pointless and silly. For instance, a man can be smart, a great father, physically strong, outgoing, attractive, brave, laid back, and literally anything else considered ideal and could be described as an "alpha male." My response to that is "so what?" To me, he's just a guy with some positive characteristics that many men have. No need to use a term used to describe animals to describe yourself just for having ideal traits. To you, it might mean everything. To me, it's just stupid, cringy, and screams of desperation to seem macho and superior to other men.

[TruthBringer]

@Tiffany_Taylor_Made For whatever purpose like marketing the term is being used or not is not relevant. Everything in life is used to sell something and has some form of marketing value. The entire point of the term is to take it subjectively. They use it in human psychology aswel, not just in the animal kingdom. So I don't see what's wrong with using it as long as you'r enot stuck up into the term themselves.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: Men describing themselves as "alpha males" is not different to a woman saying that she wants a "real man." If you ask any woman what a "real man" is, you'd get different meanings each time relevant to that woman. It's the same with "alpha male." The terms are pointless, subjective, and therefore, not worth debating or even attempting to define because they're too personal. I don't have any issues with you or others using the term. I just simply think it's stupid and pointless. I'd be more attracted to a man if he showed the things that make him ideal and said "that's what kind of man I am" rather than "because I'm alpha." That just sounds so cringy. I just can't take that seriously.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

The fact its subjective doesn't diminish it's significance. Clearly those traits were significant enough for you to mention them specifically. If you ask deeply enough as to WHY those traits sprung out at you-- as opposed to the countless other traits you could've chosen instead-- then you'll realise the rabbit hole goes deep enough to provide both sociological AND biological explanations for those preferences. Hell, you share those preferences with any woman who's ever fawned over the romantic lead of *Hollywood Love Film X*. These are archetypal ideals that track through time, space, culture, and creed. We can debate on chicken vs. Egg, of the extent to which societal preferences are shaped by biology vs other forces. Of course there's a subjective phenomenological aspect that's not neatly explained by objectivist evolution-explains-all approach. Some people just like what they like, and there's no real reason beyond "I just like it". Some like vanilla ice cream, some like strawberry. "Just because" can be a perfectly valid answer to explain certain preferences. Except when it's not. I hear what you're saying, that there's no REAL consensus as to what objectively defines an "alpha male". It's probably futile to try, because language by its nature struggles to encode objective truth. But women's sexually selected ideal of the archetypal "perfect man" is almost entirely uniform across cultures and time. It's the subjective retelling and condensing of a phenomenological constant. Some Internet weirdos calling themselves "Big Dick Alpha Man" doesn't undermine those phenomena's existence; it merely distracts from our cultural attempts to explain the phenomena in terms that enough people can agree to be semantically "functional"

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Apologies for the word salad, I'm just quite nerdy about how language explains -- and fails to explains -- the objectively occurring reality we inhabit.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

And by all means, if the term doesn't serve a functional purpose for you, then by all means don't use it. I don't really use it in casual usage, as its become overloaded with the baggage of Internet culture. But I also know a so-called alpha male when I see one, and deep down i think we all do, even if we use different words to describe him

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@SomeGuyCalledTom: It's fine. I understood you perfectly. My vocabulary is pretty good. lol Yours is as well. Nonetheless, I can't really say I have an issue with people using the term. I just personally think it sounds stupid. I'm just too used to the term "alpha male" describing wolves or lions, not people. It just sounds really weird and cringy when describing a person. I agree though. I prefer the term "ideal man," but that's just me. Yes, we know an ideal man when we see one, whether it be a woman seeking a lover or a man noticing another man with characteristics that he admires. The thing is though, those characteristics that make that person "alpha" vary depending on the person.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Seems like we both agree that the term isn't necessarily fit for purpose. There are better ways to express it, but now and then it can be an easy shorthand. I don't think I've ever actually heard a woman say "I want an alpha male". But what I do find is that although their individual preferences vary to some extent, when you aggregate those preferences across populations over time, the differences flatten out drastically. And as they flatten out, the resulting homogeneity of desired traits would appear to indicate the existence of a universal archetype that women's sexual selection mechanisms are wired to respond to; telling them "choose THIS type of man over all others!". Which I would argue is just an abstracted representation of what evolution has done through millions of years. But there's always the sociological aspect too, because we're social creatures living in complex social structures. Point being, a subjective preference doesn't require interrogation when its implicit effects are benign and personal. That's why we don't choose our sexual mates based on compatability of ice cream flavour preferences. But when a subjective preference has profound manifold effects over time (across generations, even), then I don't think "it's just a meaningless preference" is adequate explanation. Certainly not when so many others share that same "personal" preference. Many women enjoy many flavours of ice cream. But almost NO woman looks at a weak, cowardly, dishonest, oafish, immature, insecure, and socially inept man, and thinks to herself "oh fuck, he's making my lady parts do somersaults right now!"...

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Once we accept that the *absence* of all traits you listed in a man is universally a TURN-OFF to women, then we can begin to reverse engineer something akin to a value hierarchy for what women select overwhelmingly as a "panty-melting choice of mate". Which again, brings us back to the evolutionary argument, only now it's contextualised within the way women of a given society *think* about their predilections.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Anyway I'm rambling now lol, I do hear where you're coming from, nobody likes the guy who just declares himself an "alpha". It's usually the red pill types who avoid women coz "women are evil and I'm too alpha for those sloots anyways". It makes it hard to talk about women's preferences when the language itself has been weaponised by an angry minority. My only real contention is that I don't think those preferences are "just" preferences, there's always deeper layers if you peel the onion back.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Also I liked this point you made but I got sidetracked and forgot to highlight it:

"The thing is though, those characteristics that make that person 'alpha' vary depending on the person."

I've seen some theories about how there are multiple different "masculine archetypes", like how a steely-eyed Navy Seal may represent the "Warrior", and a self-aware poet may represent the "Sage" etc. There isn't just "one right way to be a man" of course, so maybe we even agree more than I originally suspected :)

[TruthBringer]

@Tiffany_Taylor_Made You're literally repeating what I've been saying all this time. And yeah, no real man walks around calling himself an alpha. That shit is cringe and pathetic as fuck lol

[Juxtapose]

"Alpha" and "beta" really don't work in modern day society.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@SomeGuyCalledTom: Many non-biological reasons exist why people choose partners. An ideal partner may not be based on "alpha male" traits. Different men can be attractive in their own way. However, arguing he's attractive because he's "alpha" due to "millions of years of biology" is dubious and can only be assumed. This woman's preferences could be solely sociological. For example, she may like men with a certain look because it's different to what she's used to, or nice men that are rare to her. To claim this is due to of millions of years of biology must be tested, which is nearly impossible. It's only assumed. However, evidence proves sociological factors influencing our preferences for not just partners, but nearly everything. The attractive traits I listed can definitely change over time with new experiences, and new experiences in society is an aspect of sociology.

If biology was the primary reason, my preferences would be static. Even if many people shared the same preferences, that adds no meaning to "alpha male." People's preferences still change over time. Some women do see "weak, cowardly, dishonest, oafish, immature, insecure, and socially inept men" with attraction. It might be hard to pinpoint it because these terms' meanings could differ. For example, I could say a skinny man and/or one doesn't provide for himself could be "weak," but some women seek skinny guys and provide for them. I can say a "cowardly" man is one that's scared to fight or refuses to take risks, but some women overlook that. A "dishonest" man could be one that cheats, but sometimes, women fall for cheaters and take them back when they do. I can go on with these characteristics, but my point is that the keywords are "I could say," meaning subjectivity. Thus, using a term like "alpha" to describe the preferences women have is pointless. It comes off as trying to objectify something subjective and personal.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: I'm not repeating what you're saying. My response was about the how the term "alpha" used to describe humans is more of an internet thing, something you disagreed with. It has been used to describe animals for a long time and I always knew that. To clarify my point, "alpha male" subjectiveness makes it pointless because the phrase can't be defined with a static, objective definition. For example, on YouTube and general internet, I watched several videos and read many articles giving men advice on becoming "alpha males." Depending on the creator, "alpha male" has different definitions due to subjectivity. Some mentioned that a nerdy, quiet man that enjoys anime is a "beta male." This "beta male" is convinced he can't get a girlfriend because of his personality and hobbies. It's a clever tactic because he's accurately guessing his viewer and knows this type of man may have been bullied and rejected. Thus, such men may become falsely convinced something is "wrong" with them and attempt to change into the "alpha male" they're "supposed" to be. This only results in men changing themselves and attempting to mold themselves into something they're not. To make matters worse, because the characteristics that make a person "alpha" differ based on individual preferences, even when changed, he still might not fit the meaning "alpha male" universally.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: At worst, he could still be undesirable, even with his newly developed "alpha" traits. Also, we women can tell when a man watched a video or read an article on how to approach women or be "alpha" because their behaviors seem unnatural, borderline robotic, and like they're following instructions rather than having natural interaction. Thus, my advice is for them is to be themselves and only change certain characteristics not because doing so would make them "alpha," but rather because it would improve their life and make them stronger. For example, if you're the shy type and you notice shyness hindering your ability to make friends, get jobs, and enter relationships, work to change that on your own devotion to get the friends, money, and lover you want, not to impress other people with a highly subjective, meaningless label that typically describes wolves and lions. However, if you feel that your shyness isn't a hinderance and you're comfortable being introverted and a loner, then you shouldn't feel forced to change. In other words, men should never feel forced to change themselves based on other people's labels, but rather how they feel about themselves and whether it could improve their life and character in the long run.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@Juxtapose: I agree with that.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

I understand your points, and I appreciate your well developed analysis + commentary. I still don't think any of those sociological factors *negate* biological or evolutionary factors, but I would agree that they can influence and modify those underlying drives. After all, if we were to personify evolution as a tangible spirit living within our bodies over generations, then that spirit would appear to embody whatever mating strategies have proven optimal over time. So perhaps we have an evolutionary spirit of sorts steering us towards certain pathways and inclinations and attractions. But that spirit must also contend with the ever-changing environment. Evolutionary biology knows very well how to act based on how ancestors acted in the past, but it doesn't tell us how to finance a mortgage, or how to operate a startup business, or how to write a great work of literary fiction, or how to find a romantic partner with whom we can experience some human expression of love that goes deeper than survival and procreation. The sociological factors may be profoundly influential, because the embodied spirit of our ancestors living within our genomic code must interact with a living external world and society that has its own agendas and needs. A purely biological explanation will never suffice, because the human organism must interface with the machinery of civilisation in a way that a hunter-gatherer living 200,000 years ago never needed to. "modern problems require modern solutions", as the meme goes.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

But that embodied ancestral spirit does still have a guiding hand of its own, even if it can put its human host at odds with their environment through the spirit's own impetuous demands. Its why I believe every human on the planet has a dual nature, its why we contradict ourselves constantly, and its why we can self-sabotage with one hand while we build towards our legitimate goals with the other. It's why a woman who states a preference for dating "nice sweet guys" may nonetheless be tempted by the opportune arrival of a mysterious bad boy. (Granted, that's only a situational example, many women do act consistently with their stated preferences. There's also plenty of men who contradict their own preferences; for example, a guy who claims to want a quiet settled life with a loving wife and family, but he fucks hookers and snorts cocaine in a rented hotel room a few times a month.)

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

But I realise the more we untangle this subject, the less adequate the term "alpha male" becomes for encapsulating some golden standard of male hierarchical domination. A "high value man" may come in many forms, even if some of the derivative versions of those archetypal forms are just 'minorities of one'.

[TruthBringer]

@Tiffany_Taylor_Made I get your point. Terms like "Alpha" need to be taken with a grain of salt as there is no static definition. And when it comes to "be yourself", that can be dangerous advice if not implied properly. One must also be careful where to take advice from. One doesn't have to stop watching anime or stop being an introvert in order to become "Alpha". Hobbies and an introverted mind don't necessarly define if you're "Alpha" or "Beta" as a man. So even a so-called "Alpha" can still enjoy watching anime or play video games. It so happens that MANY of anime or videogame lovers happen to be men who don't have a growth mindset. And often, incels enjoy these types of entertainment aswel. So it's only natural that these YouTubers make accurate assumptions about their viewers.

And back to "be yourself". One must never just be themselves. They have to become better versions of themselves. And everyone has their own version of themselves, wether they watch anime or not. It's always good to push people to get out of their comfort zone, experience new things, improve physically, emotionally and mentally. And just because the internet uses termss like "Alpha", doesn't mean there is no truth behind the terms or behind the message. So no, I don't think it's stupid. On the contrary, I think it's actually a good thing that such terms exist and be used to describe certain personality characteristics. The only issue is that these terms are overused and misused. But that doesn't make the terms themselves obsolete. Same goes for radical feminists throwing the "rape" accusation around. Which makes the term somewhat look ridiculous, but even though it's being overused and misused, that doesn't make the term "rape" bad. Afterall, it's what the term represents which matters.

[TruthBringer]

@Tiffany_Taylor_Made Nobody can force anyone to improve. That's not something that can be forced. The individual has to do the work. Some do put in the work and others don't. I've met so many people who hate these terms, only to find out that they themselves are losers and lose themselves in dopamine addictions from unproductivity. And I'm not saying you're one of them. I'm referring to the people I've met both online and IRL.

[Drakkith]

@Tiffany_Taylor_Made People be talking a lot about evolutionary selected traits and shit, but they haven't provided any evidence that these traits were selected for. MOST people, as long as they aren't literal potatoes who can't string words together or provide any benefit to society, have procreated throughout history. If there are single women and men, then they are likely to get together and have children. Especially in ancient history and prehistory when you had perhaps a few dozen people in your tribe/village and about the same in nearby tribes/villages and your mate selection pool was quite small.

The whole alpha/beta thing is complete bullshit that some morons took from a flawed description of wolves and just slapped it onto people in a misguided attempt to do... something. Make themselves feel better, justify some behavior, or whatever.

Either way, it's nonsense. There isn't even a single 'social hierarchy' and there are many different ways to rise up in them, be it money, attitude and personality, acquiring political power, becoming famous, etc.

Even the traits that alphas and betas supposedly have are just shoehorned in and they can manifest in very different ways depending on the person. You can have excellent confidence, maturity, sex appeal, and social skills and be a completely different person than someone else who has those same traits. Not to mention that a lot of these traits are subjective to some extent anyways.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@Drakkith: Exactly. I agree with you 100%.

[Lunchbox84]

@SomeGuyCalledTom. Bro she's just sayin shed rather a dude puts the money where his mouth is rather then talkin about it

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: Being a better version of yourself is still being yourself. My point is a man shouldn't change his personality to fit the role of an "alpha male" under false promises or that it would automatically improve his life. Instead of trying to be macho, men should improve themselves in areas that hold them back in life, not because certain people with several varying meanings of "alpha male" think men should be a certain way. People on the internet usually take any positive human attribute, apply it to men, and call it "alpha." As I said many times, the "truth" regarding it is subjective and relative to the person. Your definition of "alpha" might not fit mine or anybody else's definition of alpha and it's useless to people that don't even acknowledge the term. The term "alpha" is meaningless when describing humans, isn't necessary for the survival of the human race, isn't relevant to people's well-being, and does nothing to help men. There is no scientific definition of an "alpha male." No evidence of any "alpha male" genetics exist within the SRY gene. People simply don't need the term "alpha" to describe them. Sure, while the label might be important to you for whatever reason, I disagree. I try to avoid highly subjective terms as often as possible. I have no use for the term and I find it stupid and unattractive when men use that term to describe humans. As I said before, the only use it has is to help certain men feel macho and better about themselves. Rape is a completely different story. One is a meaningless term used to help men feel macho, and the other is a crime. If someone accused someone of rape, then evidence must be examined and stories must be heard to determine if a such a crime actually happened so the potential rapist can be punished. If the term "alpha male" is used, no such reaction is required. In that case, you either agree with the subjective label or you don't.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: I don't go around calling myself an "alpha female," which this article claims to exist. I've never needed to use that term to describe me, and it sounds stupid. Simply put, I have personality traits that can be considered strong and/or weak by some, and I may or may not be confident in every situation I'm in. Yet, if I had low self-esteem and wanted to feel good about myself, I could list every single positive thing about me, and call those alpha traits. I could literally say I'm pretty, fit, attract a lot of men, intelligent, educated, ambitious, loving, caring, kind, and loyal, and declare myself an "alpha woman," all while ignoring my possible character flaws. It's such a pointless stupid label that I can't imagine myself using unless I already didn't have a high opinion on myself and had to convince myself how supposedly great of a woman I am. Instead, I realize that I am a person with a complex personality like anybody else, and if it does need a label, then that label should be my full name. I know what I want and find attractive in men because of my life experiences with several kinds of men and I am able to provide for myself because that's what adults are supposed to do whether they're male or female. I'm not "alpha." I am who I am.

[TruthBringer]

@Tiffany_Taylor_Made It seems my point went over your head. You’re stuck with the idea that men improving themselves and teaching themselves “Alpha” characteristics is to please other people while it’s all in favor of the man himself. Which INCLUDES getting positive reinforcement from the rest of society. Either male or female. My specific interpretation of the term “Alpha” may differ from yours, but from a general sense, people immediately get the idea and hence why when speaking in general terms, these terms are very effective. So I disagree when it comes to it being “meaningless” when describing it to humans. Alpha has nothing to do with genetics even though people perceive a tall, muscular and deep voiced man “Alpha” in looks wise. So in that sense, genetics could play a part, yes. The rest it’s mostly the inside which determines one to be “Alpha” or not.

You may not like to use these terms, but to say they are bollocks because you don’t like to use them is highly subjective by itself. You don’t have to use them, but don’t be surprised others do and for good reason. And when it comes to rape, if a man gets accused of rape, he immediately gets locked up. Hence why this whole stigma about false rape accusations exists. There is no detective work. You go straight to jail until proven innocent.

And again, you’re sticking to the specifics of these terms while these terms are NOT meant to be used for deep context. So your entire look on these terms alone is flawed.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Y'know, minor disagreements aside, I have to agree with most of what you're saying. Especially the fact that people falsely equate "alpha maleness" as a personality trait, or a shorthand for certain personality traits that are subjectively considered "more alpha". To use the Myers-Briggs terminology, my personality type is INFP (introverted, intuitive, feeling, perceiving), which may not have the appearances of the machismo-inspired image of what people consider "alpha maleness". If anything, the image of "alpha maleness" that sells dating programs, gym memberships, and male fragrances is more associated with ESTJ traits (extroverted, sensing, thinking, judging), the polar opposite of INFP. The socially constructed ideals of "alpha maleness" seem to correlated with those ESTJ traits:

"the alpha male is the loudest person in the room with the most underlings following him around listening to his anecdotes" [extroverted] ;

"the alpha male pumps iron and plays sports and spars in boxing rings every day, he has no time for contemplation or reading or deep introspection, coz he's not a Nancy Boy" [sensing] ;

"the alpha male is logical and calculated and stoic at all times, he never shows emotion or feels things deeply" [thinking];

"the alpha male doesn't take shit from anyone, and doesn't tolerate people questioning his authority, his word is the law and his mind, once made up, must not be changed" [judging]

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

So I pretty much ignore all the talk of "how to be an alpha male", coz they're essentially just marketers selling a product. I don't see how being perceptive or in touch with my thoughts and feelings and intuitions makes me any more, or less, of a man. Equally though, I do see value in aspiring to universal virtues like courage, honesty, strength of character, etc. Of course these are not gendered values, I think everyone should have good morals and try to leave the world q bit better than they found it. But for whatever reason-- be it sociological, phenomenological, or biological-- men seem to have a particular draw towards those qualities. And yet, those qualities still can't reduce down to a single descriptor of "alpha" vs "beta". If someone values honesty, then they should let their honesty do the talking, rather than going round saying "I'm an alpha male because I'm no-bullshit and say exactly what I think". People reveal their character in their actions, so in a sense, no single word or phrase will ever adequately communicate the sum total of that character.

So evidently, the term fails to communicate anything substantial at the levels of personality, and of 'character' / virtues (although it's maybe more symbolically useful in the latter rather than the former. Although even then I'd argue that the more neutral term "being a good man" is more useful than a loaded term like "be an alpha male", which is easily conflated with shallow machismo and impression management.)

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Where I do think the term has *some limited* applicability is in the more abstract realm of 'tribal status'. And that's where the evolutionary biology comes in, because even ancient sea-dwelling creatures (which share a genetic lineage with humans) have mechanisms within the very fibres of their nervous systems for detecting shifts in hierarchical status. Jordan Peterson roughly describes this with his "lobster argument" (although its worth noting he's a psychoanalyst first and foremost, not a biology professor). Basically the theory goes that our nervous systems release certain chemicals and neurotransmitters when we become more dominant relative to our environment. So a lobster who defeats another lobster in battle gets a boost in these "dominance boosting" biological signals, and the defeated lobster has those signals severely blunted and diminished. You can see this when looking at our closest primate ancestors, who share the same biological mechanisms for tracking status-relative-to-envrionment. If the most dominant primate is badly beaten by one of the subordinate males, then it's cortisol spikes up, its serotonin production plummets, and the opposite effect occurs in the victorious primate. And you'll see the change reflected in their body language and vocalisations, the defeated primate becomes cowed over, docile and submissive, and more sensitive to loud noises or perceived disturbances. And the Victor becomes more at ease, moves more freely around their shared territory, and doesn't flash its teeth or make other submission displays.

Now, the scientific argument (roughly translated) is that: since those mechanisms traveled throughout genetic lineage from lobsters all the way to primates, then the chances that those mechanisms don't get passed on to humans is basically zero.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

So from that viewpoint, "alpha male" would simply refer to the most dominant male within a given territory. The tricky part is that humans have a little thing called free will and self awareness. Meaning we aren't slaves to biological urges. Which is good, because instead of challenging a rival male to mortal combat, we can effectively raise our own biological status markers through indirect means, like self improvement, career progression, doing work in the community that brings us esteem and good standing with the local populace. But that can also go too far, because people can post virtuous statements on twitter and get a serotonin boost just because they get lots of retweets. So they might feel "more alpha" when in reality, they've done nothing of value to earn it. But still, it's probably better than bashing each others heads in with clubs and stones.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Anyway, I must stop there or else I'm gonna be in an endless rabbit hole of counter-arguments and such lol. But just to reiterate, I really do agree with so much of your points, the term itself is so misused that people treat it like a personality trait, when at best, it's just an abstract term for referring to differentials in male tribal status. It makes more sense through the more simplistic lens of a lobsters nervous system, or a primate's jockeying for dominance in a tribe of maybe a few dozen other primates. It gets much harder to use when applied to humans, which (even though we share those underlying biological imprints for measuring tribal status) are infinitely more complex.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@TruthBringer: If a man is convinced that something is wrong with him because he behaves a certain way and/or has certain hobbies, and needs to buy a book to change himself, then his motives are to please other people. He's a grown man that wants to be one of the cool kids. People should only work to improve upon certain character traits when they realize that certain characteristics about themselves are hindering them in life, not mold themselves into some macho male fantasy popularized by the internet. All you're doing is taking any old positive trait, applying it to men, and calling it alpha. I don't see how it can get anymore meaningless than that. People recognize and "get the idea" of what you call "alpha" traits simply because we know what we like and find positive. Sometimes, we attribute such traits to a desirable partner. It's unnecessary to call those traits "alpha" and argue them as if they're objective. I accepted that people use this term, but I still cringe whenever I hear it and I'm instantly turned off. If any man ever approached me and said, "Have you ever been with a real alpha male before," I'm walking away. Period. My entire look on this is that "alpha" is highly subjective, and therefore, not worth debating. Yet, you replied to me as if there was objective truth to the term. That's is flawed.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@SomeGuyCalledTom: The Myers-Briggs personality test shouldn't be taken seriously either. It's almost just as bad as the "alpha male" thing. Our personalties are way too complex to be summed up with four letters. In addition, the results of those tests are cleverly worded to sound like they apply to the test taker when they can really describe anybody in certain situations. There are times when we might be more extroverted than introverted, and some thought processes requires us to be more intuitive and sensing, depending on the situation. We are also driven by both logic and emotions because it's natural, and we may or may not always plan things at any given time. In certain situations, every last one of the personality types can describe us because it shows how complex human personalities are. The thing about ESTJ supposedly being more "alpha" also proves my point about "alpha" simply being personality traits that one considers it positive and applying it to men. The thing about it is someone else that believes in the "alpha male" trait could disagree with this classification and debate it. However, my take is that because it's highly subjective, no point exists in debating whether this assessment is true or not because there is no standard, scientific, objective truth to base it on. At the end of the day, they would just be debating a glorified opinion that you either agree with or you don't.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@SomeGuyCalledTom: Courage, honesty, character, and so on are important, I agree. The truth is people in general have a particular draw to those qualities, regardless of gender. My take on it is that people should only improve upon these qualities if they are a hindrance in life. For instance, if people are bullying you, but you lack the courage to stand up for yourself, work in improving your courage. If you find that important people have trouble believing you most of the time, tell the truth more often, but sometimes it's wise to withhold some truths from people, depending on what it is. "Being a good man" isn't the same as being an "alpha male" though. Being a good man is about having traits that can help people and build healthy relationships without having to mold yourself into being a macho stereotype like what "alpha male" implies. "Alpha male" traits are those some consider positive in their opinion applied to men, which could be anything. "Good" traits actually benefit society. Naturally, I want a guy with sex appeal that is loving, caring, kind, and loyal, which is, in my opinion, traits of a good man. Love, care, kindness, and loyalty not only helps us in the relationship, but also help the world.

[Tiffany_Taylor_Made]

@SomeGuyCalledTom: A guy that considers himself an "alpha male" most likely has self-esteem issues, which isn't attractive. Since being an "alpha male" is mainly taking positive traits and applying them to men in a macho manner, I can't imagine a man secure with himself doing that. It's like he has to convince himself that he's a "real man" using an internet popularized term, which is cringy. Also, our lifestyles are completely different to those of lobsters or other primates. None of what you said was said with evidence, especially any of it applying to humans. As I said before, the biological aspect of it can only be assumed until more conclusive studies are conducted. However, we know that based on the way our lives work, our traits are more associated with sociology rather than biology and evidence proves it. For that reason, the terms "alpha" and "beta" are meaningless when applied to humans.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Well, I suppose the issue with such terminology is that people (as you yourself indicated) have a negative response to hearing the term itself, especially when used as a self-descriptor, or as a catch-all moniker that's falsely supposed to contain some ultimate truth about the "true nature" of a man. As I said, my defense is not of the term itself, as I think it does oversimplify a lot and is pseudoscientific in the worst way. That is, it's too emotionally loaded to be useful in everyday discourse, or for a person to describe themselves. ("cringey" is a totally appropriate response to the insecure man who feels compelled to inflate his ego by calling himself alpha.). But just because the signifier is unfit for purpose, doesn't mean the thing being signified has no basis in reality at all. Perhaps in academic settings, the terminology gets more rigorous and focused on what's actually observed. So a sociologist or anthropologist might have different terminology to distinguish the social leader or "head honcho" of a tribe from his relative subordinates (insofar as the complex social strata of a given group of people can be collectively lumped together as a 'tribe' of sorts). But though we may not have all the hard empirical data to say exactly *what* defines such a leader, almost no social scientist worth any scrap would disagree that status differentials amongst social animals (including humans) exist.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

That's all I'm arguing in favour for, is to recognise that any time a group of people get pooled together, status differentials will likely emerge over time. I do believe it's erroneous to make a reverse inference of "because x status differential exists, character traits xyz must be the most desirable". In that regard, terms like "alpha" and "beta" are worse that useless, they're actually misleading. "Act like an alpha male" is as useless as telling a guy to "be a real man". It's extrapolating conclusions about "ideal" behavior from the retroactive observation of behavior that just *happens* to correlate with *certain* people occupying high places in a given social strata. And that's bad, because no two people can infer an "ought" from an "is" and arrive at the same conclusions. A man motivated by financial means might think Warren Buffett has the "most alpha" traits, and a more spiritual minded man might think Sadghuru or even Jesus Christ is "the true alpha ideal". All highly subjective and totally unscientific. So that's not what I'm in favour of. What ought to be, ought to be. And what is, is. There's not always a deep truth to be extrapolated from social behavior. Some men with high social status just *happen* to be nasty pricks, but that doesn't mean "this man has high status, and is a prick, therefore I'll also become an alpha male if I act like a prick to everyone." That's gonna be a rude awakening for that guy when other people "unpolitely disagree" with this assessment, by kicking his teeth in for having insulted them too gravely.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

So I can't really defend the term itself, when social scientists don't even consider it objectively applicable in research settings. Whatever terminology has the most scientific credibility, is the terminology I'd accept, even if it never crosses the divide into common parlance. My interest is more with the observational aspects of "what tends to happen biologically AND sociologically inside the body and mind of men with very high social status, compared to men with very low social status. My disagreement with you is over your position that it's all" nurture" over "nature", when that debate has been raging amongst scientists and philosophers alike for centuries, without any definitive conclusions. What's most likely in my (albeit subjective) view is a mixture of both sociological AND biological incentives that "reward" certain traits or behaviors in certain conditions, and "punish" or disincentive other, non-desirable or non-effectual traits. But you're correct that it's far from a proven "hard" science, hence why we should look at multiple facets of different fields to find common overlaps. If a biologist, sociologist, and anthropologist walk into a bar, they'd probably disagree on just about everything beyond the statement "human beings exist". But with time, I imagine the conversation would shift towards commonalities in their respective observations. And this might just be my personal belief, but I suspect they'd come to agree that both nature and nurture have a guiding hand in the "making of a man" within a given social strata.

[Jacqp]

Because alpha people find the submissive "yes man" weak and a turn off. They like the fight... the snap back of a strong partner
Both my boyfriend and I are alpha and it just runs smoother. Same values and drive. Not push overs
I like a man that will tell me to shut up when getting too mouthy or push me down on bed when he is horny. Instead of guessing games

[Apope16]

Great post! thanks for your comment! good stuff! YOu deserve more likes.

[TruthBringer]

@jacqp You've earned yourself a new follower. And let me add that not just alpha females hate submissive "yes" men. Women in general find that unattractive.

[Petra150]

It sounds very old-fashioned I'm complete different. I'll hates guy to take over, I'm more attracted to a silent guy who are more intelligent. He learnt me to play chess and save stamps. Wine tasting and read a good book. While I use to play volleyball and CrossFit, somthing I'll never get him to do, guess he's height never will make him s good vollyeball player anyway, being 8" shorter than me isn't great for vollyeball. I'd always love to help him when we are out and sone horribel guy want to fight him, there's nothing more sexy than helping your guy, and him crying by my side in the night time while he thanks me for fighting them horribel big guys. It just I a great turn in to be with a guy emeho are able to forget he's manlyness and just show compassion and love. He's a real ALPHA in most women's eyes. In just tall and strong nothing to brag about

[TruthBringer]

@Petra150 A guy who lets a woman lead, is more of a 'nerd' (nothing wrong with that) and is incapable of protecting himself and his girl, AND "forgets his maniliness" is considered an "ALPHA" in most women's eyes you say? Back to reality lady. And give me some of that you're smoking.

[Jacqp]

@TruthBringer and @Apope thank you for compliments

[Jacqp]

@TruthBringer... welcome aboard.. this ride gets kinda weird ha ha..

[Jacqp]

And I'm sorry Petra150 but I agree with TruthBringer. Quiet timid men are kind coming across whimpy and shy... not a man to toss you across the bed... am I right? 🤔😆😘 and if also like what your smoking

[TruthBringer]

@jacqp Oh I've dealt (and still am) dealing with many rides that are way more weird than this one. I mostly get hate from ingenuine people who are either modern feminists, male feminists and simps. It's actually a breath of fresh air to see a genuine woman like yourself who calls a spade a spade. Looking forward to join you on more crazy rides!

[Petra150]

@TruthBringer you profile name need to be altered if you should carry on inhere, as you don't know what real girls want in a guy, definitely not your antique version of what a real Alpha guy is

[TruthBringer]

@Petra150 The majority of women don't want submissive men. Pointing to exceptions to the rule doens't disprove the rule itself. And I've given more accurate truths than you have. The truth is what it is and not what you want it to be. Sorry but not sorry.

[Petra150]

Excuse me but are you and this FraudeBringer on grass, to have a this trip. Must admit in the queen victoria time sone women might would have preferred a kind of men your describing. But then guys who were fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan , and them guys the placed the allied sent set of oa Normandy coasts during the D-days they were bestent not the type of men as in call ALPHA men as the dishes are the men I describe. But continue in just your trip, in the belief some women still fall for your version of an ALPHA guy. in fact, these terms are not used in our millennium

[TruthBringer]

@Petra150 Terms like ALPHA should be used in specific context and should be taken with a grain of salt. These terms refer to certain CHARACTERISTICS. It's not about the term itself. It's about what its referring to. And I'm pleased to see my nickname triggered you enough to respond to it. And lovely how you take wars out of context as it doesn't matter if you're a so-called "Alpha" or "Beta" during modern wars. A gun will kill anyone regardless of who pulls the trigger. I'm yet to witness a none "Alpha" man be a commander of an entire army when men were fighting with swords, spears and bows. Very weak arguments you gave us here. Try again.

[Petra150]

@TruthBringer I'm quite confident that the expression Paula Abdul mentioned in her great 80'ies hit " oppersits attract" still is the common drifts in most love affairs, and for sure the determined factor when girls choose a guy for a lifetime companion. Again my own experience bis pretty much like my sister and mother's experience. I'd found a fantastic vguy, he had and have an unskilled job earning enoughf to live nice, I were a successful real estate agents earning 4 times he's sallery , I do several different sports activities band were a successful vollyeball player and used all my spare time in a gym , building my fit athletic body for perfection, being ekstremly tall as my mother and sister , dating weren't easy I admit. But I found this fantastic guy , who girls stood in line to date. I won he's heart , and gave up my real estate agents job to follow him to Germany with out girls.

[TruthBringer]

@Petra150 Opposites do attract. But so do people who have similarities. Most women are feminine in nature and want a masculine (opposites attract, right?) The majority of women don't want a guy who lets them be the "man" in the relationship. That doesn't mean there aren't those who do. Afterall, we live in a world full of billions of people. You will always find those who divert away from mainstream views and standards. I'm happy you found love. Sounds like Jacqp did aswel. That makes three of us. Shame not everyone can have that special someone.

[Petra150]

@TruthBringer yes and I'm sure most feminist find your thoughts about women's desire fantastic, it's just that little thing girls know what girls want, guys THINK they know what girls want, I'd met quite a few so-called Alpha males after the description given what an Alpha is , who thought them entitled to my love, unfortunately for them I didn't found them Alpha or even Gamma males but to be honest just waste of most girls time. I'd think Alpha males in the classic version might be a immature teenager girls first choice , whenever she can mannage to live her own life fee of her parents she might wake up , and want a modern man not living on gender roles from far ago. By the way I'd texted you for futher

[Jacqp]

@Petra150... just stop. Your seriously irritating. Your right GIRLS may want the little boy changing them to wipe their ass... BUT WOMEN want a man that can take charge and give you butterflies. A take no bull shit kinda of man that can make you feel like their queen. So little girl... stop sounding off in MY house... and play nice.
His opinion and mine are not yours. Ok... fine... but hey!!! Thats ok... Alpha people don't give a shit what close minded whimps have to say.

[TruthBringer]

@Petra150 From a man's point of view, we men often find a clear pattern in behavior in women. One of them is that often women say they want something, but end up wanting something else. Women like @jacqp are one of the few I've encountered who are genuine in what they want. And it has a lot to do with KNOWING what she wants and having the guts to call a spade a spade rather than giving politically correct answers. That's why she got my respect.

And there is a saying tha goes "If you want to know how to catch fish, don't ask the fish, ask the fisherman". The fishermen are men in this case. And if you think after doing research and building experience men can't have a good understanding to what women want, then I got news for you.

The only reason why many men fail with scoring you is because they apply the general rule to an exception, which is yourself. And who a woman perceives someone to be "Alpha" differs in each individual. I am an "Alpha" in the eyes of some women but not in the eyes of others. That's why once again, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

[Jacqp]

Awe... why Thank you I really appreciate that... this chick knows nothing of what she speaks. I was just reading through and it's funny that she truly has NO CLUE what an alpha personally is. (And yes baby girl..."alpha" is most definitely used in today's intelligent conversations.)
An alpha personality comes from within.. Has nothing to do with appearance... not height... not muscles.. brain and heart. It's not what you are it's who you are. It's confidence and strong willed. It's the ability to take charge in intense situations.. its the ability to remain calm while everyone freaking out. It's a state of mind and being. It's just living how you want to live not because someone said you had to.
It's having the balls to be yourself and truly know "you got this shit" so in closing there PETRA150... next time you come to a battle of whits... be prepared

[Jacqp]

Lol I'm 5'4 and 120 pounds. And I definitely know I a boss. Lol
You are clearly a man hater too... i have taken multiple slaps at you and you go after TruthBringer. I'm calling you out chicky... whatcha got?

[Petra150]

That mean you think an Alpha female is a ice cold asshole with no passion, vwho only want to be with assholes just as horribel. Remember in love rule number one when we want to make relationship for long. Oppersit Attract , no other thing is certain in love that we women wants guys who differfrom us self, only thing that can make us explore life and grow as persons is guys who are different from us. In my and my family you might could jump to conclusions that we girls are Alpha female , simply to look at our phycical features and our high education level, as me and my sister and mother all are tall as no one else , and very athletic build and from what other tells very good looking and attraktive eventhoug we are 195 cm + tall the tree of us. We had great jobs and height wage, but none of us thought of us self as Alpha female, but when we found wonderful shorter and less educated guys , we all because Alpha Couples , because oppersit types make STRONG and make you Abel to understand more and for sure make you a better person who start to grow. I were nothing before I met my little hubby, and either were my mother, with my biological father who idiots night calle an Alpha male we were a ruined family with no future and nothing to be happy for, mother were beaten up taunted and hurt , me and my sister were hiding for the Alpha man our biological father, a guy we never see after the divorce were an alpha male and alpha female fortunately split up , so my mother could find an Beta guy and together build an ALPHA Relationship

[Jacqp]

Funny thing here is you don't listen. Again you all about image for Alpha... lol and nope not cold at all with out alpha people you would all be running around crying and pissing selves with this pandemic going on. The ALPHAS took charge. U just seem to talk because u like sound of your own voice. Oh well can't fix stupid.. take care now

[Petra150]

I'd hoped my north European experience with many people , only could describe there is a difference in how women choose there partner. And generel your kind of men are not appreciated by many WOMEN in my part of the world, perhaps amoung muslins and less developed countries it's different

[Jacqp]

Hahaha haha omg are u still going? Shut the fuck up

[Jacqp]

I'm European too... and again you are wrong. Anyway have merry Christmas... im done

[EssenceOfLight]

Responsible and confident males don't want competitors as partners, they want an ally. Unfortunately most women who claim to be "Alpha females" are just obnoxious bitches who are questioning everything without thinking even a millisecond about mutual benefits that their partners propose. Every "Alpha" girl I know barks a lot but without competent and smart partner on their side they are just ridiculous loud pinschers with inflated egos and without anyone who follows those girls without being dependent from them.

[hahahmm]

Of course she wants you to take a bullet for her. They all do. The question is if you think getting laid is worth your life. If her ex with guns had showed up at her door that night, you'd see what I mean.

[Apope16]

Right. Which is why Breonna Taylor is dead and her boyfriend is alive. haha. Good point!

[Anonymous]

In my experience there really is no such thing as a “alpha” female. Yes there are women who are much more driven, confident and ambitious than others. However when the going gets tough they always can fall back on a shoulder to cry on.

Let me give you a perfect example. Rhonda Rousey. To be fair Rhonda was very badass in her time during the championship run at the UFC. She helped push the women’s division into the mainstream. Being a ex pro myself I know exactly how much work, stress and sacrifice that takes. You go through hell in background in that sport.

But they she got KTFO by Holly Holm. Okay it’s mma and it happens. It sucks but that’s the game. She was understandably upset as anyone would be (alpha or not).

But then she was the f*cking Elle show a week later saying she was suicidal. While I take suicide seriously I also believe anybody who cries to the public and goes on live television is just looking for shoulder to cry on.

No alpha male (if alpha even exists) would ever do that. You would never see Conor mcgregor, Nate Diaz, GSP, etc. ever doing that. All those guys have been upset when they were supposed to win. Some of those guys may secretly feel that way after a huge humiliating disappointment but they don’t talk about it. I remember how down I felt after first mma loss. I was devastated. But I didn’t go around crying about it public. They are men. They do cry but they do it behind closed doors.

Every girl who said she is “alpha” has always shown extremely hypocritical beta behavior down the road.

[TruthBringer]

VERY WELL PUT! I've always been sceptical about the term "Alpha Female". It's just women trying to emulate masculine traits and pretending to be men. It's a constant battle between their pride/ego and their biological self. Not every highly educated woman is an Alpha. And as someone who has gone to university, I can confirm that. I've found that the so-called "Alpha females" often are women who try to lock horn with a man over the most trivial stuff, always have their way, are manipulative and can even show narcissitic traits. It's a constant battle where they try to act dominant, but want to get dominated themselves. Absolute headache and I've been there myself by dating one in the past, and seeing how my "mother in law" is.

[Opinion Owner]

@TruthBringer these women tend to take the things a step further to “make a point”. But when things don’t go there way they still get societal leeway to cry and play victim. They are often hypocrites.

Anyway I completely respect women who bust their asses and sacrifice to get ahead. A few years ago two women successfully completed the US Army Ranger training. They were held to the same standards as men. Now THAT I can respect. These women were humble too about it.

But loudmouth victim card bitches dry me nuts. If you get ahead great. But quit complaining.

[TruthBringer]

@Anonymous These little "victims" are the product of modern feminist indoctrination and society spoiling them since they are little and all the pathetic loser men trying to simp their way into their pants, boosting their ego's even more. And then people wonder "where did all the men go?" and why men are leaving the dating market and marriages.

[Opinion Owner]

@TruthBringer it ultimately brings them to their own self destruction and misery (although they will never admit it.). It’s also making many guys miserable in the process but this bullshit started with THEM.

Many so called “incels” are guys who would been happily married in a different time era. But the bar got unjustifiably raised for them while the bar got lowered for these bitches.

The only reason they have any power is their sexuality and male sex impulses. If guys could just be tougher (and I admit I’ve fallen short on this when I was younger) then they would have nothing to go off on.

I think for starters us guys need to stop competing, one upping and trashing each other about who is getting pussy and who isn’t. That creates deep insecurities and makes us compromise ourselves beyond our normal sex drives (which by itself can make us act stupid.).

You see a normal guy who has never done anything wrong to you but struggles with women? Let him be and never mock him for his position to make yourself better. I’ve been on both sides of the fence on this. When I’ve been on the “right” side of the fence I didn’t take that as an opportunity to brag about getting some.

[Anonymous]

Your understanding this only partially correct.

Alpha females still like to be secured, but without her having to feel subservient in anyway due to the credit the guy gets in providing that security. In other words, her security should be both implicit to the relationship and unquestioned in any circumstance.

So think of it like a queen and her bodyguard. Protecting the queen doesn't make him gain a position of advantage or credit over her, if anything, her company is still a privilege to him, AND her security is implied in the very definition of the relationship (her bodyguard).

So such a woman's perfect male is not the alpha male - the alpha male is too well established and opinionated for her, it will be a clash. Such a woman's perfect man is the "beast man" who is:--
1. Not opinionated on matters she has strongly made her mind about.
2. Capable of physically protecting her in a situation.
3. Can take orders from her without feeling offended.
4. Takes her lead on decision making on finances, children and other worldly matters because her intelligence is her alpha trait.
5. Ability to satisfy her sexually in the bed (chances are she's actually sexually submissive and likes her beast man to take her as he wishes in this department, and this balances out the beast man's feeling of being a real person and not a robot in the relationship).
6. Ability to keep a fun conversation going.

The short coming is, the alpha female will like the security that comes in this relationship, but she may emotionally fall away since her beast man doesn't pique her intellectual side. The paradox is, an intelligent conversation is very much liked, but such people also tend to be opinionated and thus may lead to clashes. A right balance is thus desired for the beast man to be perfect for her.

[Anon_deals]

Ahh sorry to break it to you but ---> Strong women actually appreciate strong men. Men, on the other hand, are the ones who were and are so hell-bent on making women into submissive pushover beings. It's all over our society; the traditions, generalized traits, the expectations, etc. Look at history when men were in control of everything, what were women doing? Being a freaking baby and house maker, couldn't even get an education, own property, or have their own money. Men did that because ideally, most men want a weaker partner. What's interesting though is that the mentality these men have doesn't make them strong or an 'Alpha'

Of course, not all men are sexist as I described here. Also, when I say "strong" women I mean confident, knows what she's worth, etc

[David_Kek]

On one hand you say all women want strong men, on the other you blame men for that desire in women.
In terms of feminist attitudes, that was the best mental gymnastics I've ever heard in bridging the void between feminist theory and the reality of women's instinctual desires. I mean it's not true, with there's being so much more to it, but... I genuinely found that entertaining to read.

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek I did not say all strong women want strong men. Actually, there are plenty of women who are scared of men and they're justified. Also, there's definitely a correlation between what is viewed as a strong woman and strong men, society and traditions push that on us. And there is a reason for everything in society

[David_Kek]

You didn't need to, you made enough of a generalization to reveal your hand. You are not sexually attracted to men weaker than yourself, but rather you desire men stronger than you. At the same time however, you're afraid of them to the point of prejudice and discrimination, thereby putting yourself in an interesting catch22.

There is a reason for everything, but your reason to explain all this is the part I find amusing. For whatever reason you're afraid of men, to the point of doing what it takes to keep away from them, such as believing in feminist patriarchy theory, to view men as an entire group as dangerous and oppressive. In doing so that includes taking on a lot of their beliefs, such the notion that in society men have all the power and women have none at all, and there's nothing women can do about it, except to keep spreading their ideology in the hope that the day in society that everyone is a feminist, then the patriarchy will finally be destroyed; aka, setting themselves an impossible goal so women will never have to take responsibility for literally anything negative, and all of it can always be blamed on men.
The part about that I find funny is that you've taken that to such an incredible degree, that you even blame men for your own desires. The fact you like to rub one out to manly men much stronger than yourself, to you that's not biology, no, that's an example of how the patriarchy is oppressing you. You gotta admit, that is kinda funny.

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek lol no. I may have a few biases but I am not a sexist. I am too realistic, there have to be reasons for everything I do. Therefore, I am not scared of men. I am simply cautious and it's justified because men are dangerous. A man would have to give me reasons through his words and or actions for me to believe he would do anything to hurt me emotionally or physically. I am attracted to men who believe my rights matter (typically a feminist guy) and they are not weak. I don't know what traits you're considering weak but I think weak men (emotionally) are the ones who fight women's rights and (physically) I don't believe this is possible because no men is physically weaker than a woman.

What I explained is not a theory. The history that applies to today are all facts. Men ARE dangerous and oppressive. Look at the facts dude lol. I am not blaming everything on men but it's definitely a fact that the fight against sexism is because of men's centuries use to sexism against women. I mean think about it: The hate against women, the double standards regarding sex, etc. There are even worldwide generalized traits that are sexist against women made BY men. You guys have your own sexist language and it's considered the norm. That's power. I don't think women are completely defenseless but for the most part, we are. We have rights BECAUSE of men. We are able to say "no" BECAUSE of men (and many times, even that isn't enough). We walk freely in the world BECAUSE of men. Etc. Yes, we fought for our rights but men ALLOWED it. Men are the ones in power here

Women who are as you described is partially blamed on men. Society pushes that ideal man. Women are conditioned. Don't shoot the message lol. I am just a student obsessed with psychology and how emotions work, how cause and effect affect the world, so many things 🤷‍♀️

[David_Kek]

I'm not shooting the messager, I'm laughing at said messenger over their complete lack of selfawarenessness.
I didn't say you're not attracted to feminist guys, but I will say that attraction has nothing to do with sexuality, unless we're talking of the guys that made it to the top of their male feminist hierarchy and don't really believe what they say anyway, like Trudeau, Professors, etc.
Sexual attraction for women just like yourself is about male power. And if they're a guy they feel safe with, then that ticks both of those boxes.
You are not attracted to men who are equal to you in intelligence and physical strength, you're sexually attracted to the men who are superior to you in both those regards, which flies in the face of your ideology about men and women being equal... unless you flatter and worship the patriarchy so much to the point of believing that the only reason you have those desires is because men as a group has brainwashed you into thinking that way.
I guess male feminists aren't doing a very good job unbrainwashing that out of you. If only they did, I'm sure I could set you up with some lovely men with arms no larger than yours, so the equality can begin.

The fact you're a student in women's studies genuinely doesn't surprise me at all. What does surprise me is how submissive you are, submitting to patriarchal authority (providing it gives women rights), despite how oppressive that it.

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek Lmao what are you talking about? Sexual attraction for me is not about male power. Male power could be shit on for all I care. I care about personality, mentality, traits, desires, drive, etc first not sexuality and or physical appearances. That's exactly why I pinpointed my attractiveness for feminist guys. Sexist guys are an instant turn off even if they are sexually attractive. Their personality would disgust me so much that their appearance would be hideous and that's with anything. Ticks a box for a guy because I feel safe? No, being with a strong man is more of an alliance maybe even an obligation as a woman because again, men are dangerous. If men weren't dangerous and sexism didn't exist, to hell with that mentality. Because there would be no need. I find that tactic strategic. Not only do I own guns and have been taking MMA such I was a child but I also expect strength in my man FOR the alliance purpose ONLY never sexuality

I am not sexually or emotionally attracted to those insane ideas of yours. Not all women are the same so keep your assumptions of the women in your life and stop projecting that crap onto other women because I know exactly who I am and what I want in a partner. History has proven men are the ones who would want less intelligence, (physical strength is a given) in a partner (not a sexual partner though. That is exactly why men do not want to date tall women. Weak. You want to feel superior and to make yourselves feel good about that so you seek weaker women who won't push or challenge you. Everything you're projecting onto me is exactly what men want

Fyi I am not taking women's studies, My major is business and finances. I specifically said I enjoy psychology

And what gives you the impression that I am submissive? I am a radical advocate. I push against those who oppress me. I love on those who deserve it. I don't bow to anyone or believe anyone is more superior to me. You have no idea who you're talking to lol

[David_Kek]

But i like making assumptions of women and being sexist. But don't much understand why you're wasting your time with firearms, marital arts or getting a career, because by definition women aren't dangerous, and history proves as much. Women don't hold guns and stuff, and women they do they just look cute, like a kitten that's hissing.

Madam, you are a submissive. You know fine well we live in a male dominated world that you or no other women can compete with. Such a powerful male dominated society, that it even lets you think you have free will, when really your beliefs and desires are merely only a result of serving said male society. Feminism has always been a useful puppet to the patriarchy to keep the women in line after all.
Get back in the workplace, we have other more important women to breed from that need your taxes.

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek Well try me in real life and we'll see if I've been wasting my time on guns and MMA lol. I am 25 and plenty of men have already and they regret it. I shoot to kill and I don't hold back. Only an idiot would.

But you know what, this is so hilarious because I finally took a look at your profile and realized you're the sexist I have been describing this entire time. What even funnier is the fact that you're arguing against yourself knowing this. I'm not sure if you're delusional or just psycho

[David_Kek]

nah, that's cute... little woman thinks she can defeat the patriarchy using guns, exactly as the patriarchy programed her to think.

I didn't deny i was a sexist by feminists definition, since merely sitting comfortably as a man not crushing your testicles on a bus is a example of sexism to them. I'm not arguing against myself, I'm arguing you using your own reasoning. I know what I'm saying in response to you is bullshit, with the hope that maybe just maybe you'll think to yourself; "hmm... maybe there's a few gaps in what i believe, that could use a little bit of revision."

Now using the powers of the patriarchy invested in me as the superior male i am, I order you to get a bit more angrier at me, and maybe throw some personal insults my way as a way to avoid my counter arguments altogether. I command you, woman.

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek Actually I find you hilarious. I find men hilarious. You people are so spoiled, THAT'S the part that's sort of resentful but everything else about men like you is pathetic. Definitely not angry. Everything I learn from men like you I take with a grain of salt. I learn from the likes of you for bigger purposes so thank you

[David_Kek]

see, I told you that you was a submissive that knows how to respond to male authority acknowledging its superiority

[David_Kek]

@Anon_deals
why are you so resentful anyway?

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek You really are delusional aren't you. Nothing I have expressed have given any intentions that I am some pushover female

[David_Kek]

@Anon_deals
Sweetheart, you believe that we live in a male dominiated society, in which men are so powerful that they condition every desire you have. In your words "men are the ones in control here".
Even a conservative housewife doesn't flatter men as a groups ego with that level of self-abasement.
All you need is a dog-collar and a BDSM dungeon, and then you'd have the whole package.

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek So because I'm realistic and live in reality, I'm submissive? You make no sense. How about learn some psychology, start with "nature vs nurture" 👍

[David_Kek]

No, you give all of your agency to men, claiming you have none as a woman, at all. That makes you a submissive.
If you was being honest then you'd admit women have just as much of an effect on men's psychological development, since forever about 80% of a mans upbringing is raised entirely by women. But that other half of the truth doesn't fit that narrative, now does it?

You speak as if I don't already study psychology, already knowing a good amount about "nature vs nurture". I would recommend you learn a little bit about biology, evolution, and The Red Queen. But something tells me I don't have enough power as a man to force you to research something you don't want to.

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek You make no sense. Where does your logic come from LOL

[lucky-guy]

Lol what great reading. @Anon_deals you made David look like the jerk he is. Great work and well said 👍🏼

[David_Kek]

@lucky-guy she's not going to have sex with you

@Anon_deals I accept your surrender of the debate

[lucky-guy]

@David_Kek lol you’re so funny and you actually think you have intelligent things to say. Bye

[David_Kek]

@lucky-guy bye bye

[Anon_deals]

@lucky-guy omg a normal guy! So freaking happy for the ones of you who still exist

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek Dude, there are actually genuine men who believe in and support women's rights. Not everyone is like you

[David_Kek]

@Anon_deals We should have sex sometime. You like being tied up?

[Anon_deals]

@David_Kek ahhhhhh ew. . . I already told you how I feel about men like you.

[lucky-guy]

He’s such a dick lol

[lucky-guy]

@Anon_deals yeah there are a lot of normal guys out there. Unfortunately there are a lot of tears too as you can see lol

[Anon_deals]

@lucky-guy He should be trying to fix himself. . . He claims women to be weak but he's been whining this entire conversation. He's a huge liar just like Trump and emotional. They lie so much they believe their own lies. How delusional. I would say poor guy but that's his problem, he's a lost cause and I don't attempt to help trumptards anymore

[lucky-guy]

@Anon_deals you seem like a really nice woman. I’m not political I just live life and enjoy. We are all here to get on and nobody should be above anybody else.

[lucky-guy]

@Anon_deals I like to be dominated for sexy fun and I like to dominate too. But I’m the real world we are all equal

[Anon_deals]

@lucky-guy I definitely agree, I just get so sick of sexist men. They make the world much worse. It'll almost be funny if it wasn't such a serious situation lol

[David_Kek]

@Anon_deals Please... i'm really efficient when it comes to sex, it'll only take me about 30 seconds. And i won't make you wear a bag over your head, i promise.
While we're on the subject, can i recommend @lucky-guy? He's been very good, i think it's only fair you start finding him sexually desirable. I'll bet his cunnilingus is spot on. Now be nice a let him play with your vagina, right now.
Merry Christmas by the way. And on that note, i'm off to bed.

[lucky-guy]

@David_Kek you can masturbate to pictures of your dream woman who you will never actually get, while me and @Anon_deals will both sleep with our loved ones. Enjoy your lovely single life this Christmas

[Anon_deals]

@lucky-guy right. As if a woman with standards (being single or not) would be as low as sleeping with strangers lol. Guess he didn't comprehend anything from our previous conversation. . . I mean, people like him have no logic so it isn't shocking. Anyways though, good night and have a Merry Christmas

[lucky-guy]

@Anon_deals merry Christmas and I hope you have a lovely day

[Anon_deals]

@lucky-guy well it is my birthday lol so thank you for the Merry Christman

[TruthBringer]

Despite the oh so "intellectual" ladies of GAG want to believe, terms like "Alpha" and "Beta" are incredibly accurate in describing certain characteristics in people. With 1 term, you can instantly know the characteristics assigned to a person. Unfortunately, not everyone gets the idea of "Alpha" And yes, "Alpha" females DESIRE "Alpha" males. This is genetically coded in their DNA. No matter how much of a feminist you are, every woman wants and desires a strong, leading and confident man (wich are "Alpha" characteristics). The only thing is, they don't want to admit it. Because of feminazism.

[TruthBringer]

By the way, the existence of "Alpha females" is highly doubtable. They are often obnoxious women trying to emulate masculine men and want to bark orders to everyone around her, while at the same time, can't win from her biological self and gets wet when she herself gets dominated by a strong man. No true "Alpha" male gets with a so-called "Alpha female" who can't help but to lock horns with the man over the most trivial shit.

[Drakkith]

Sorry bud, I'm going to have to call you out on your bullshit. The whole 'alpha' and 'beta' concept is seriously flawed in both concept and execution. People are extremely complex and I've known plenty of men who have many of these 'alpha traits' that would never be called an alpha. Perhaps the best way I can put it is that it isn't that the whole alpha/beta thing is wrong/right, it's just so simplified and flawed that it's comparable to using late 1800's medical knowledge in the modern day when we know better. At best, it's useless to use it, and at worst it's actively detrimental. As both of your posts here have shown.

Also, I'd like a peer reviewed reference supporting your assertion that alpha females desire alpha males, and also one that can identify where in their DNA this is encoded.

Basically, your posts are complete BS and you know nothing about what you're talking about. Be a real man and learn some actual facts please.

[TruthBringer]

@Drakkith These terms are more suitable for the wild than in our times. If we look at tribes long ago, you can tell who is alpha and who is not. These terms especially now are subjective and do not have a static meaning. Like many “normal” terms these days. However, these terms serve a purpose to bring for a general idea. Everyone knows exactly what these two terms are in their fundamentals. Sadly, they are both overused and often misused. And I need not to give a source about Alpha females wanting Alpha males because like I’ve pointed out, the whole “Alpha female” thing doesn’t exist in my eyes. On top of that, even if I were to give you sources, you already made up your mind and called my posts “complete BS”. Which makes it utterly a useless and a waste of time to show you evidence as you’re clearly closed minded to even give it a fair go.

Sorry pal, but because you don’t like these terms being used, doesn’t mean they can’t nor that they don’t hold any validity. Unfortunately for you, they do, they are being used and succeed in giving a general and unrefined idea. Which makes them highly effective when speaking from general perspectives. Which is a FACT. And I’m not sure believing in the terms “Alpha” and “Beta” has to do with being a real man or not. This alone shows your own flawed mentality. Begone, you clearly got nothing relevant to say and are starting to projecting your own insecurity.

[Drakkith]

"These terms are more suitable for the wild than in our times."
No they weren't. They were never suitable for our species at all. We've been a species dependent on pair-bonding since our species first split off from the rest of our genus.

" If we look at tribes long ago, you can tell who is alpha and who is not."
No you can't. You can't do this even in most modern day hunter-gatherer tribes.

You can continue to use the alpha/beta terms, and many others will, but that doesn't mean they aren't seriously misleading. They are and no one should be using them. Continue to wallow in your own ignorance I guess. You're only harming yourself and misleading others, so, you know, no biggie or anything.

[TruthBringer]

@Drakkith These terms exist and are being used for a reason. It all depends on how they are being used. I've never had an issue using these terms, the contrary actually. The best thing we can do is agree to disagree.

[Drakkith]

Indeed. Good day to you, sir!

[iseekpinetrees]

For the most part true. I've always been more dominant than my male companions. But a small part of me does like the hero aspect of men. It is a turn on.

[Apope16]

Describe that to me. I find this idea of the "hero aspect" of men a unique thing to draw out and talk about more.

[iseekpinetrees]

https://hackspirit.com/hero-instinct/

[iseekpinetrees]

loveconnection.org/.../

[Browneye57]

Well sure, but just know that an 'alpha female' is an alpha male with female sex bits. The entire terminology is based around being MALE. So it's kind of a misnomer.
I did a 'take on this some time back, about highly driven and successful women, and how they interact with their man.

The bottom line is, the more a woman tries to be like a man, the less desirable she is to them.

No guy worth his salt wants some bimbo competing with him on everything, or arguing about everything. For some reason, many young women think these are desirable traits, when they never learned the real lady traits. FAIL

[TruthBringer]

You've NAILED IT. It's just laughable how there are women (especially feminists) who shame you and call you "weak", "small dick energy" etc. when you choose not to get with a woman who is (overly) competitive and acts like a man. "What you can't handle a strong and independent woman?". The thing is, I am more than capable of dealing with them, but I choose not to since I can get with truly feminine women who would rather be a teamplayer than a thorn in my side.

[Browneye57]

@TruthBringer - Exactly. Are they a joy? Or a PITA?
The ideal woman isn't the best looking one, although you better not fuck this up cuz you'll be waking up to that mug for the rest of your life if you marry her. No, it's about her loving you, adoring you, being in awe and devoted to you, wanting to make you happy. Some women are just naturally this way, the nurturers, the ones that love to serve. And if they choose the right guy, she is forever taken care of and treat well in kind.
This stuff really isn't magic. No guy worth his salt wants a lady that is just like him. He wants one that augments him and his life, not competes with it.

[Phoenix98]

Lol that's got nothing to do with being an "alpha" what kind of man thinks about going through the window to escape and and save his own ass. Leaving a woman or anyone for that matter in their home when someone could be potentially trying to breaking in. Or cause trouble.

The simple fact is that when shit hits the fan a person's true colours are revealed and in that instant you showed yours. That's all it is.

And just FYI "pure male instinct" would have been to assess the situation and investigate and grab a weapon on the way to the door if need be.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

"The next day I told her that I failed her. I said that men are biologically herders, hunters, and protectors. Women are biologically nesters. I told her I failed her as a man. I explained that was why she was turned off and wasn't attracted. Sure women are capable, I told her, but their biological instinct of attraction is for a man to be the protector and to be resourceful. I know you are a feminist and this kills all libido for me, I said. I hope we can be friends."No "alpha male" would tear himself down like this. 🙄

[Solo22]

It just boils down to the physical. Tall, handsome, Fit, big dick. If you have that, you get a lot of pussy, especially if you are smooth, confident (not cocky) and assertive. For the rest of us, it's ultimately a play to pay scheme and not being naive. Just like how us guys choose our women, beautiful, sexy curvy body, nice assets and legs, etc. We are more forgiving on the physical though cause we'll still fuck a girl even if she's not Mrs. Perfect, but girls are always looking to lock down that 1 perfect man, which of course is where they go wrong. The creme of the crop has more competition, so other bitches are gonna try to slyly steal your man. That my friends is the true nature of the human species. Hope I helped. It's also why girls are really jealous, manipulative, and try to be controlling through their "emotions and feelings."

[Solo22]

Also, women are much more forgiving in poverty. They overlook the physical for survival. If you look at the Phillipines, Thailand, Jamaica, they will basically say any man is handsome if it gets them a green card and a ticket to a better life. Just know what it is, and use your logic not your feelings.

[Anonymous]

Of course, men will say women want them, too. No we don't.
I don't care whether a guy is alpha, omega, or anything in between. "Alpha" men are often abusers, controllers, bullies, etc. No thank you. Josette Sona talks about this situation in detail in her books (which are free to download from bookselling websites). Abusers aren't worth the drama.

[Vviiccttoorr]

Alpha males get confused with asshole, which is why women think the alpha males are abusive. Of course there are abusive guys out there but that means they are sadistic assholes not alpha males.

[Drakkith]

@Vviiccttoorr The whole alpha/beta thing is bullshit anyways. People are FAR more complex than this and the whole idea is so bad that you basically don't find it at all in professional literature on human studies except to debunk it.

[Petra150]

@Drakkith just my words

[Vviiccttoorr]

@Petra150 I see where you’re coming from, it’s something to consider. It does relate to the human psychology to a degree though as in the behaviors of men and women ya know

[Drakkith]

@Vviiccttoorr It relates very, very poorly and then is portrayed on the internet even worse, making any use of it anywhere except in professional psychology basically nonsense. And even in professional psychology it has been surpassed by better theories and explanations.

[Vviiccttoorr]

@Drakkith so you consider it like a more insulting way of explaining the roles right? because me personally I don’t have too much an issue with it but I can definitely see where you’re coming from and why it would be annoying to use the terms

[Drakkith]

@Vviiccttoorr No, I don't see it as a more insulting way of explaining roles, I see it as a very inaccurate way of explaining roles that don't really even exist. What 'roles' are we even talking about? Look at the people around you. Every one of them is different, their relationships are different, and even though there are many similarities there are plenty of differences that get completely lost when trying to shoehorn people into 'alphas', 'betas', etc.

[HedwigInABox]

Most women would've want you to take on the role of the protector. I don't know why she said something else. Probably because of missplaced pride and ego. I'd personally see that as a red flag.

[TessCasie]

Cause she ain’t an alpha female

[TruthBringer]

Very accurate observation

[Petra150]

Glad you said most, because bi including myself and quite a few others love to be a guardian angel. Just as I love being big and powerful, guess that's deep in most women who love being piwerfukk and big, while real men don't bgiveca shit about being powerful and usually vseizecbever mean shit to a guy. Never heard a guy who told me , he loved my two meter body , or found seize or strength a great thing. But I know, when we girls were having a shower after our vollyeball training, we loved to mesure each other , and the feeling of beeing tallest and strongest just grow deep in side us, and I also love the fact in much taller than my hubby and most men and them few men taller and bigger than me , ofcauce never caught my attention , as a we girls ain't attracted to power guys, they simply never get noticede

[Petra150]

Where I. The world do you live in my part of the world were so fortunate we have gender equality and , women don't need to depend on a violent rapist who controle there wife in a regime of fear. Wonder if you know we women fought for our freedom, and you bring up that women want to be taunted and controlled with fear. Perhaps in Muslim society

[Anonymous]

Holy fuck... You and her aren’t alpha anything as it doesn’t exist in our species. Tell yourself what you want but if you are in “administrative” from your profile and she is in a bad neighborhood, you are the winners of the world. When you two are in your forties life will start to get hard... no looks, no game and alone in a shifty apartment. Wake up mr. alpha.

[Opinion Owner]

Aren’t the winner*

Oh, and I am.

[Anonymous]

I think you should work on your definition of "alpha man" as you sound like a bigger pussy than a woman. Goodness me. Talk about a spineless bitch that you were going to jump out the window to save your worthless ass cause let's be honest why the fuck are you going to the window when the banging's on the door.

[TruthBringer]

Instead of using shallow and unintelligent shaming tactics, why don't you 'educate' him on where he is wrong? oh well, asif I should expect anything from a person cowering behind the Anonymous option and then calls others "spineless bitches" and a "pussy". Ironic.

[Opinion Owner]

@TruthBringer go suck a dick

[TruthBringer]

What an "intelligent" reply. Didn't expect anything more

[TomGarand]

Then as a submissive man... I'm pretty much fucked.

[Apope16]

dont worry bro. you can still be sweet. just be a value set man of principles who is true to what he says.

[TomGarand]

Meaning?

[Apope16]

You don't have to dominate a woman or be super macho to get women wet and horny. I am a skinny metrosexual guy. How do I do it? By being super sweet, charming, but being assertive and very clear. Also by being willing to walk away and not be pushed around. For example, if you ask a girl on a date and she says "maybe". Then just say, "I want a girl excited about me. good luck on your journey". A woman will only see you as an alpha if she has the real fear or sense that she may lose you. That you aren't taken for granted.

[TomGarand]

So I don't need to be the leader?

[Apope16]

You dont need to be a leader like the movie 300 hundred. But in the public dating scene you need to lead by setting up the date and time and place. Going to the host first and asking for a table. Opening the car door. Taking on different adventures like a cheap picnic outside or whatever. LIke lead the date. Be strong. Raise your hand and ask for 2 waters or ask to split the check. Let her feel free to have a good time without complication. Have a PLAN for her on dates. Dont be uncertain.

But in the bedroom you can be submissive. But be confident and tell her thats what you like. Dont be ashamed about it. Tell her, "I like a dominant woman. Do you think you can be wild and rock my world?"

[TomGarand]

The thing is... the submissive part is mostly outside of the bedroom. I prefer not to lead in the relationship.

[Apope16]

Then you are doomed. You will never get respect from women. Rarely ever get laid

[bamesjond0069]

Yes you're exactly right. They do. But if you play the male role and their are also primarily playing the male role, they don't serve much of a relationship purpose to a man. Perfectly fine to fuck but i just dont get why a man would want someone who is essentially his duplicate but with a vagina when he can have someone who has a lot to offer their shared life together instead... and yes who comes with a vagina too. Lol.

[TruthBringer]

Exactly my thoughts aswel. "Alpha females" often lock horns with "Alpha" males and bring drama. And Apope literally proved that in his take. I'd stick to a more feminine non-Alpha woman if it means not having a headache.

[1truekhaleesi]

This site is literally the only place I see this Alpha/beta BS.

[Gisellealphababe]

No, you see it from this guy. He makes takes on it every few days proving that he is, indeed, a chick magnet, but I do not think he is one but. He is clearly overcompensating here.

[1truekhaleesi]

@Gisellealphababe definitely overcompensating

[Petra150]

What do you mean with overcompensating. Only types I'd seen overcompensating are some of the tall athletes on our male vollyeball team, as they are so stupid they can't spell there own name, so none of us women wants to socialize with them

[Gisellealphababe]

@Petra150 Overcompensating for something he knows he is not.

[Petra150]

@Gisellealphababe I see

[Petra150]

@Gisellealphababe now I don't know him personally, so I can't se how he is normally

[Gisellealphababe]

@Petra150 Yes, but seen from a psychological perspective, he is, indeed, making up for something he feels is lacking.

[douride2]

This whole alpha/beta thing. This is the only place I ever hear it mentioned. I never hear anyone talk about it IRL.

[TessCasie]

Weird ! I think she is just so full of herself and finally she’ll turn into a monster.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Oh you definitely aren't wrong! Eventually it's coming! 👍

[NarutoUzumaki007]

thats the same for both men and women. there's a difference between being dominant and confident and being a jerk overconfident douche

[TruthBringer]

@NarutoUzumaki007 Absolutely correct!

[Dracuaw]

Another shitty post talking about a shitty concept of being "Alpha"

[Hurlyburly]

Amen.

[Unit1]

Ditto!

[Drakkith]

Yep.

[Anonymous]

LOL I see that he is constantly making takes on being a chick magnet or whatever, but it sounds like you’re overcompensating for something that you are NOT. Delusional asf.

[Opinion Owner]

The last line “feminist alpha males want..”. WTF? 😂

[Opinion Owner]

He’s saying feminist gays want men who are gay? HUH

[Apope16]

the line means exactly what it says. feminist alpha males want... bla bla bla. I think your trouble is you don't know what i mean by alpha male. alpha male meaning strong, confident, independent men who are not brown nosers or suckups.