More than 72% of black children are raised in single parent households of which the majority are run by black women. An overwhelming majority of BLACK women are single mothers. And when we look at the behaviour of the type of men these women go for it is often THUGS, rappers, and basically black men who show clear signs of being unstable partners with a high risk of leaving them.
[Do you research yourself, before deeming something as non-sense and trying to be liberal and pretending it doesn't exist. The real ridiculous ones are the Libs who would rather ignore an issue than address/fix it] And this isn't because these are the only men available to them. Let's look at Eva Marcelle. Beautiful girl who has abundance of options in dating is drawn to and has a child with a man who acts like a thug, been arrested multiple times and has clear signs of Anti-social personality disorder.
We look at Gabriel Union and she decided to stay with a man who outright cheats on her. She still sticks with him and is in fact living with him today. And the list goes on and on for many black women both famous and not famous. For the black women who don't go for thug criminals, many of them outright scorn the men of their race as being worthless or bypass them altogether for non-black men (most often white). So what's the deal with black women not seeing black men as attractive unless they act like criminals or have a thug element to them? Why do black women make such poor choices in partners?
For all those claiming that black men are actively involved in their children life and how this is blown out of proportion.
Updates
+1 y
As can be seen above. 42% of Hispanic women are single mothers. 25% of white women are single mothers. 52% of Indian women are single mothers. However,
2/3 of BLACK WOMEN are single mothers. Something is very wrong then in the choice of men BLACK women are spreading their legs for.
72% of Black Children grow up without their fathers: Why do Black Women make sure poor choices when it comes to men?
That 72% figure is by far one of the most famous percentages that is routinely misinterpreted by the average person. 72% of Black kids are born to UNWED mothers, which means majority of black children are born into a household where their parents are not married to one another. "Unwed" does not mean fatherless (despite what illiterate people think) it means "not married".
The actual percentage for Black kids who live in a single parent household according to the US census bureau (2013) is around 56%. Still higher then Hispanics (31%) and Whites (21%) but it's not as high as people think it is.
Also if we want to throw around statistics, according to CDC, Black father are more likely to interact with their kids despite not living in the same household as them. According to the CDC, approximately 67% of black dads who don’t live with their kids see them at least once a month, compared to 59 percent of white dads and just 32 percent of Hispanic dads.
Well it started in the 60-70s when black women where specifically targeted by welfare programs that encouraged piss poor choices. They where paid to be single mothers and since they not only had a safety net for stupid choices they also benefited from it. So it slowly became the culture to be an idiot about their partners and with no consequence from an economic stand point (studies routinely show that people get use to a life style and thus do not change it, thus these women got use to being poor but living off of welfare) and then you have society, especially liberals encouraging the behavior and blamining all the problems of there now broken homes and communities on every one but the people actually responsible (the women and men who have done this). The reason being of course that as long as they, democrats, continue to convince blacks that its some one elses fault the problem not only doesn't get solved but blacks will continue to vote for them in order to "fix" the problem, the very problem that democrats have grown dependent on to secure the black vote.
And I want you to imagine if you were enslaved and your family structures were forcefully fractured over and over for several hundred years, how long it might take people of your group to recover from that, culturally.
And even after you gained the rights of every man and woman, but you still faced prejudice and an active campaign to keep you from exercising your rights, and racism that continued to linger for centuries, that put your ethnic group at an economic disadvantage for generations...
How sane and healthy do you thing love relations would be in that kind of insanity?
Well, that actually happened to the irish and that didn't seem to cause to many issues, in fact it caused so few issues that people don't even talk about it anymore. Secondly if something that happened 1865 continuous to plaque and damage the black community I think its fair to say that its the black community not the event that occurred over 150 years ago. Also data supports this conclusion as the out of wedlock birth rate of blacks in 1950s was less then 20% and only after the 60s did it start to become more common (many believing that it was the welfare programs that actively paid single mothers thus allowing for poor decision making, that did it (and the fact that children without fathers are more likely to be promiscuous themselves and thus perpetuate the problem). So yeah, what you said is not what happened, according to historical and statistical data. Oh and only some actively campaigned against black rights, mainly liberal democrats, republicans voted for black governors
As early as 1871(P. B. S. Pinchback) and as senators in 1871( Hiram Rhodes Revels,) and in 1875 (Blanche Bruce) and as house representatives as well, all republican. It wasn't until democrats gained power back after the civil war that they started inacting laws to infringe upon the rights of blacks, something republicans where strongly against hence the KKK (funded and endorsed by democrats) killed white republicans alongside blacks. So that's a huge omission in your argument as well.
No you did not, you mentioned you stated they faced prejudices, which while true was only from half the population not all the population as so many people, again namely democrats, like to rewrite as if it was all whites who oppressed blacks when in fact it was democrats while the other half, republicans actively fought for the rights of blacks. It was to point out that it wasn't some whole sale prejudice and discrimination, it was a ideological group. Just like if you had said it was germans who commited the holocaust, I would correct you and tell you no it was the Nazi's. They are two different things. Also I would point out that it was barely 200 years of slavery if that since prior to 1653 their where no slaves in the US (they where indentured servants, John Casor being the first slave in the US (Owned by Anthony Johnson (along side four white indentured servants (most likely irish)) so it wasn't all that long, especially when you consider slavery existed for thousands of years in
Africa and the middle east. However if you consider indentured servitude as slavery (especially as with the irish it was forced thanks to Oliver Chromwell) as slavery then it existed for hundreds of years definitely but it also would include whites which would destroy your argument as not only where the Irish forced into subjugation they where also discriminated against. And again as we see from statistical data this didn't start in the black community until the 1960s. In short you where stating things as if only blacks where slaves, they where not, as if the entire country was against blacks, they where not, and as if this was due to slavery, it is not. Hence me trying to clarify the history, it was not as black and white (pardon the pun) as you and in all fairness most every one, presents it. Details are important.
@hellionthesagereborn I'm Irish. The Irish did not face what African slaves did, by a long shot. This is not to belittle the struggles anyone faced. But, you seem to be the one rewriting history here.
Really? Your saying that being massacred and then shipped off to another country and, according to documents, being seen as less valuable then black slaves that they didn't suffer as much? I am irish as well. Do you know why their is such a large concentration of irish in Chicago? Because they where not allowed to do any other job other then rail road work. you can see pictures of signs and posters stating "irish need not apply", in fact in the west indies, where many irish where shipped off to, they would be tortured and would have their feet literally burned (origin of the phrase "putting your feet to the fire") because they where deemed as lazy and more beligerant then the black slaves (the laziness was more likely due to the hotter climate which the irish where not use to and the "beligerant" was probably due to the fact that the British had a hatred and racism for the Irish). Did you know that the term slave is derived from the term slav or Slavic, which is of course, white people
So you saying that this is not what happened even as we have ample evidence for it is, well absurd. Its revisionist history. I never diminished what blacks whent through I was merely pointing out that others went through the same thing and to act as if it was racism, and that it was all whites as monsters and slavers (despite the fact that in the US only 1% of the population owned slaves vs. 48% of free blacks who owned slaves and the fact that the African slave trade was created by Africans who themselves owned slaves, enslaved, and sold slaves for thousands of years rather then the couple of hundred that the US partook in) and all blacks where victims is, well again, completely contrary to known historical facts. In fact presidents of various African countries have issued apologies for the slave trade. Of course no one wants to mention that because its hard to be a victim when it turns out your situation was not only not unique, but in fact really common and your ancestors where
as likely to be a slave as they where a slaver (which is to say not particularly common really). Oh and before you try to argue otherwise, the average number of slaves owned was five so no, it wasn't that blacks where buying back their spouses or anything like that. In fact we didn't see the worse part of slavery and the inevitable racism that occurred in order to justify said slavery until the outlawing of the transatlantic slave trade in 1808(again showing that their was an active community of abolishiness trying to stop slavery, all of which where found in the US and the western world (whites) none where in Africa or any other nation). When that happened it was necessary to enact laws that prevented the freeing of slaves, which many democrat states had in order to maintain their slave populations (as it was quite common prior to these laws to free slaves after a certain period of time or on the death of the slave owner).
So again, your trying to represent things as if they where black and white and they very much where not. You also tried to represent blacks as victims and whites as oppressors, which again is not accurate. It was political not racial, it was only democrats who tried to argue race, republicans argued that race was irrelevant. Then of course you have the fact that, as previously stated its irrelevant because none of these issues existed prior to the sixties targeted welfare programs. Also I never claimed you where a liberal, though I imagine you are left leaning it wasn't the point being made. The point I was making was, again, it was not about race but politics which you ignored.
@hellionthesagereborn Holy crap, you're like a bug in jar. Jesus you're trying hard to make a point that is dismissive of Blacks and the slavery experience and NOT let on that you're a racist. Such machinations and mental pretzel-ization you have gone through today. And for what? Did it further the discussion of the fracturing of black family structure? NO. You just belittled this as if it was nothing to have lived through all this history. I never said there was no other suffering or oppression on Earth. I never said all whites are opressors or that all victims are black. I never said that ONLY whites are opressors. I never mentioned political parties, or who was responsible for what.
What I said:
These are ways that the families of black people have been torn to pieces in our country. These are ways that is has been hard to be a black person in America, and perhaps, having suffered these things (which are entirely factual), it might explain why we see fractures in black families.
Yep, I'm a racist. Clearly I am a racist because I don't agree with you, I don't self flagellate I don't hate whites, I point out that all of humanity commited the same crimes, that every one was an asshole, that every one was a victim regardless of skin color, that race is not a real thing (scientifically speaking) and that's what makes me a racist. Doing everything I can to mentor a black child but clearly I'm a racist. Yep you got me. Meanwhile in the real world, what I presented was facts, certifiable facts. I at no point said one group was superior to the other in fact I do believe my statement was that every one was an asshole, you know equality. You just can't handle the truth so you have to attack me, the messenger because the truth threatens your ideological beliefs. you don't care about the black community you care about your ideology. As I stated everything started in the 60s everything the black community experienced every other group experienced too at one point or another
I was never dismissive of slavery, it was a horrible practice and it should never have existed. Never did I suggest it wasn't bad or that it needed to be gotten rid of so get rid of your faux outrage, no one is buying it. Your pissed off because I presented facts that you didn't know about that threaten your ideological belief, a belief you have held so tightly because if you pity others you can convince yourself your a moral person by standing by and doing nothing, as long as you just pity them. I never once stated that blacks where not slaves, not once in fact I mentioned by name from memory (something you couldn't do) the very first black slave in this country. So again, stop with the fake outrage, the moral posturing because no one buys it, I never once stated their suffering wasn't real, what I stated was that every one experienced that at one point or another in history, their was not one group that was not both victim and victimizer when it came to slavery (a sad truth).
The only one who was dismissive of the suffering of others was you. You gave a damn when it was blacks because it was trendy but turn around and point out that whites where also slaves and well that's not in fashion right now, that's not toeing the line now is it? That's why you made baseless accusations towards me in a vain attempt to discredit my character because you sure as hell couldn't discredit my statements (it was a smart move, you clearly do not have nearly as much information and knowledge on the subject as I have so you didn't want to try and fight with hard facts because you didn't have any). Again, as I said that's not the case, it wasn't slavery it didn't start until the 60s when it was encouraged to break up the family unit, single mother hood was encouraged, that's when you get all of these problems. Slavery had nothing to do with it as I stated before (many times). But keep pittying the black community, I'm sure telling them to wallow in self pity and blame every
else for their problems instead of accurately attributing their problems to their actions will do a lot for them. I mean its clearly helped thus far right? I mean I try to mentor a black kid who deals with racism all the time, you know because evil white people poor poor black people. He failed at school and it was due to racism, not because he was sleeping in class, not because he refused to do his homework or study for tests, not because he ditched school, not because he mouthed off to his teachers, not because he tore up his report card infront of his teacher, racism. That's what he was told by his grandparents anyway, that's what he was told by people like you. So what do you think is going to happen? I mean if he waits for the world to stop being "racist" or for slavery in the past to have suddenly stopped having existed, what do you thinks going to happen? Will he suddenly have his father around? No, will he suddenly have a stable environment? No, will he suddenly start studying?
No, he will continue to wallow in self pity along with all the pity people like you give him, and not succeed. Meanwhile I, the racist, am telling him he needs to step up, he needs to go to bed at a set time so he doesn't sleep in class, he needs to show up and work hard and earn his grades then and only then will he be able to have a good life which he deserves. Because you know I'm the racist here. People like you are the problem, you don't provide the black community with solutions you provide them with excuses to do nothing, you make their lives the responsibility of every one else but them when the only people who can fix their problems is them.
You're not a racist because you disagree. You're a racist because of how you disagree and what you say. You couldn't just let there be a discussion about a legitimate problem blacks face. You had to engage, immediately, in a game of one-upsmanship, to deflect focus from an attempted sensitive discussion about how this social phenomena came to be.
That's idiotically stupid. I never once said their isn't a damn problem, in fact I pointed out exactly what the problem is, when it started and how we can fix it. So clearly that's not the issue is it? The fact is you have an ideological belief and instead of accepting facts you decided to insult me because again, you can't handle being questioned. Blacks are not unique in having been slaves, nor where they unique in being slavers, doesn't change how horrible it was and how it should never have been acceptable, it just means that they where not the only ones. Again, at no point did I deny anything, I brought context to it to make you realize that this is not only not the problem because you know, 150 years without slavery and the fact that the issues started in the 60s not in 1865. So as stated, I was pointing out what the problem is I don't care about "sensitivity" I care about fixing the problem, I don't care about pitying a group of people, I care about helping them.
There was no one uping or what have you, it was a statement of cold hard facts. If you said the sky is magenta, I would correct you and tell you it was blue. Do you know why? Because the sky IS blue. That's all that happened here, you made a claim that was inaccurate I tried to not only point out that it was incorrect giving multiple references, all of which you can look up (in fact I encourage it, blindly following others is what gets us into these messes to begin with) in order to back up my statements and then proceeded to point out what the real issues is, an issue which has been well documented and proven pretty damn thoroughly to the point where its absurd to claim that an event that happened to some ones great great great great great grandparents is some how responsible for their lives today. Especailly absurd when you consider that we have people coming in from horrible conditions in other countries and succeeding.
@hellionthesagereborn I wasn't saying the sky was magenta though. I was saying "Black Americans experienced this set of things, and maybe that has effected family structures". And they have experienced all of what I described. I didn't make it up. My thoughts were based on my conclusion or really "questions" that arise looking at facts.
You keep bringing in deflective points and you seem quite outraged that I suggested any of this, so much so that you have written paragraphs about how horrible I was to suggest such a thing. Why? Really, why were you motivated by what I said to be so dismissive, animated and angry?
I then brought up that one, that was not the case that is it was not the cause of the current problems, you pushed, I then explained that other groups also experienced the same things and they are not having those same problems ergo it cannot be the source of the current problems, then you tried to claim that I ignored historical injustices that occurred when in fact not only did I not ignore them I actually presented more historical injustices that occurred which you then ignored and accused me of being racist for stating. Not once did I attack you in any of my statements, you however cannot say the same. I presented you facts ones that are often overlooked. I presented them because their is a tendency of over simplification of history in that it is presented as if it was whites vs. blacks which is not the case, or as blacks as victims and whites as oppressors which again is not the case, it was groups of people who hurt other groups of people. with that I was trying to establish
context. Again, not once did I attack you, not once, you can even go back and read through if you want, you then accused me of being racist. See the problem their? Your the one who attacked me, I was trying to inform you why what you stated is not only incorrect but that mentality is actually harmful to the black community because it not only creates racial tension for something that really should be considered racial, as again we had white slaves and we have had black slavers and we have had blacks fight and die fighting slavery and we had whites die fighting slavery, but it also hides the real problem which is fatherlessness. The fewer people who spread false causes the better off the black community becomes, because we can address the real issues instead of false ones.
Calling some one racist without provocation of any kind and without reason is in fact an insult and its not a fact as again, you have no evidence for it. I was on topic, you got pissed off and insulted me when I was on topic then whent off topic and accused me of doing what you in fact did. Do you want to stay on topic? As stated what you said is incorrect based upon hard facts both historical, and statistical time lines.
@hellionthesagereborn Oh, I'm sure it pissed you off, but that doesn't mean it was a fact. Just your attempt to derail my comment was enough provocation. You're not addressing the topic. You're just flipping out on me for making a suggestion that what these people have endured may (partially) explain the phenomena addressed in the question.
@Starrk Okay, now your starting to piss me off. yes it wasn't always 20% as I already stated, many fucking times. HOWEVER, your ignoring the HUGE fucking leap in the black community and the fact that this number has held at about 20% for whites for the past fourty fucking years! Did I at any point suggest that their was not a change? No, in fact I stated their was, I stated when it started happening (60-70s) then pointed out that after this point it remained relatively stable as this graph shows: www2.ed.gov/pubs/YouthIndicators/indfig11.gif So what the fuck are you arguing exactly? Yes it is happening every where as previously stated, but in the black community as the statistics and the graph show its so significantly worse that to claim that its some how even is completely moronic to such an extreme degree that one has to wonder how any one who makes the claim can even have the mental capacity to properly feed themselves. SO what are you arguing?
Sorry about the first comment, my computer freaked out and I accidentally pasted that response to the wrong comment section, please disregard. As for your comment, no I didn't say I was pissed off, do you think that's the first time I have been called that? I mean lets be honest here for a moment, people with your ideology immediately accuse any one who doesn't agree with them either a racist or a bigot (ironic since bigotry is literally intolerance of other opinions) so no, I was not pissed off, I said you got pissed off because I presented facts that you where not only unaware of, because you as so many others don't actually do any research before forming an opinion, but also because it contradicted what you said. So yeah, you got pissed off I was more along the lines of indifferent. I just pointed out how your "insult"(can it really be insulting if its used so often though?) was not only incorrect but in fact laughable.
Black women date and have sex with the most worthless black men available because evil white people alive today, who had nothing whatsoever to do with past slavery and prejudice, leave them no choice but to further harm themselves?
That about sum it up?
Why do black men still run around with their pants hanging down at their knees, like they think they're making some sort of fashion statement? And why do black women date these clowns?
@hellionthesagereborn You seem to either not know or deliberately omit the fact that the parties switched their platforms and that the democrats were the ones that supported civil rights after the civil war. This is widely known to be the case. And drawing false equivalencies to the struggles of the Irish doesn't help your argument at all, as using their plight as a way to illustrate that systematic racism isn't an issue just shows you are willfully ignorant of the racial dynamics in this country.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo Nope. When did they start switching? After the civil war? Then explain why the only reason that the 1960s civil rights act was passed was because of conservatives? In fact explain how this switch occurred and why? I mean your asking some one to believe that all conservatives decided, unanimously and all at once to change their entire view on society, economics, and the role of government for seemingly no reason but decided to continue not to be racist and changed their party name to democrat AND the democrats decided, unanimously and all at once to change their entire view on society, economics, and the role of government for seemingly no reason but decided to continue to be racist and changed their party name to republican? Does that seem like a logical argument to make? Of course not, because it isn't. Not one, NOT ONE, racist law was passed by republicans, every one of them was by democrats. Further more their was only one democrat that changed parties
@YourNeighborhoodOreo in the past 70 years and that was Strom Therman who when he changed to republican completely altered his rhetoric to match the anti racist rhetoric of the republican party. Further more the "big switch" did not occur after the civil war, its claimed to have occurred around the sixties (all the first black governors and representatives where republican which occurred about ten years after the civil war ended and there would be no more black governors/senators/representatives until the civil rights act of the 60s (passed by majority republican vote) which undid all the segregation laws that democrats put into place). The reason why it was claimed that they "switched"(beyond being a political maneuver that democrats pulled to get minority votes) is because the south became more conservative around this time however all data shows that as the surveys showed they where also becoming less racist and as this happened they in turn became more conservative as
@YourNeighborhoodOreo the republican party was always anti racist and pro individual (hence Martin Luther King Jr. being a republican because again, they where the party that was anti slavery and anti segregation and pro equality, even now as if you look at democrats they are obsessed with race). As for the Irish, how was that false equivalence exactly? They where forced into subjugation, so where blacks. That would seem to be quite equivalent what with the exact same thing happening to the irish that happened to Africans. As for the supposed racist dynamic or what have you, do you have any evidence of this? Do you have evidence of systemic oppression against blacks in a society that has anti discrimination laws that only apply to minorities? In a society that has multiple grant, scholarship and welfare programs that are only available to blacks and minorities? Or the highering quotas? Or the fact that
@YourNeighborhoodOreo blacks get a bonus 200 points on SAT scores when applying for colleges and universities while whites get a -200? Also would you explain how in a society that routinely discriminates against blacks specifically all, with the exception of those from somallia, African immigrants generally speaking, do better then native born blacks and in fact most whites? Or perhaps you could explain how a society that favors whites also happens to have the top highest earning groups being indian, fillipino, Taiwanese, Israeli? None of those are whites yet if we are favored AND are also the majority of the population then we should on average be within at least the top five (we are not) highest earning groups. Or how about how Nigerian and Ghanian americans make over $70,000 a year while irish americans make about $60,000, Dutch make about $55,000, and French americans make $53,000? That should not be happening in a society that favors whites, yet it is happening.
@hellionthesagereborn Nobody said it happened unanimously, and to attach your own premises to my statement to disprove what I've said makes absolutely no logical sense. Since it appears you're not particularly knowledgeable about the topic, I'm providing some links for you to visit and encourage you to do some independent research before continuing the discussion. It's not nearly as black and white as you portray it to be.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo Or maybe you could explain how in our supposedly incredibly racist society (towards blacks) how blacks actually commit a disproportionate amount of hate crimes towards white, so much so that they are actually more then twice as likely to commit them then whites (blacks makeup 13% of the population but commit 26% of all hate crimes) and how we talk about Neo Nazi's and the KKK and how evil and bad they are yet the most prolific supremacist group, with the most active members is the black separatist?(and we know that this data isn't due to "racism" because no one in our society talks about these issues or how blacks are more racist towards whites then whites are towards blacks). Or how a society that hates blacks would scream about how the Oscars are racist and we need more blacks represented in the Oscars even though 17% of the nominees where black despite the fact that 13% of the population is black (meaning they where actually over represented)?
@YourNeighborhoodOreo Or perhaps explain how in a racist society where cops seek out blacks to kill them, black cops have the same arrest and incident rates? Or how these same cops actually according to multiple studies, hesitate to shoot a black armed suspect but the black police officers don't? Or how even though we keep claiming its cops who kill blacks we know statistically that a cop is 20% more likely to be shot by a black suspect then a black suspect is to be shot by a cop? Or how over half of all murders are commited by blacks (also 9x more likely to commit armed robbery, more 3x more likely then any other group to shoot at a cop etc.) and 90% of their victims are black? Meanwhile maybe you can explain how our society says how bad black have it while ignoring all this data and the data that shows whites are more likely to be shot by a cop then any other group? Or how blacks are responsible for 80% of all interracial crimes and whites are the victim of it?
@hellionthesagereborn Seeing as you obviously haven't read anything I linked, I can't help but feel that you're not open to viewpoints that contradict yours. I'd like to see some citations where you obtained that information, but even if I take it at face value [which I don't] the argument that because of the actions of a vast minority of the black population the majority don't experience discrimination is inaccurate and illogical to say the least. African Americans face discrimination on a plethora of fronts, whether it's in the education system, longer sentencing for similar crimes as their Caucasian counterparts, the obvious racism displayed prominently in Charlottesville earlier this year and subliminally across the country, having an attorney general that actively inhibited the civil rights movement, having a lower chance of acceptance to the same jobs with the same qualifications as their Caucasian counterparts, the list goes on and on.
@hellionthesagereborn Don't mistake this for me saying that because you're white [if you are] that you're racist or anything like that. All I'm saying is that the discrimination so apparent in the country's history is far from gone, and that there are exceedingly complex socioeconomic factors that play into the problems that the black community faces in America.
@hellionthesagereborn I'm also very interested to see any evidence you have for your claims, as there are many statistics and assertions you make that I'm skeptical of. I'd also appreciate you bringing any issues you have with what I've stated to my attention so that we can have further dialogue if need be.
@hellionthesagereborn First, MLK never endorsed a party or political candidate, second saying that the discrimination against minorities doesn't come almost exclusively from the modern right is ridiculous, just look at the voting records and endorsements of modern white supremacy groups. Third, Irish-Americans did not endure discrimination to the same degree that African Americans did, the caricatures of dark skinned people in the media and blatant fear-mongering/prejudicial portrayal of blacks by the media in the 1900's US was unparalleled. The American media as a whole participated in a concentrated effort to demonize blacks and portray them as subhuman and innately primitive, unintelligent, and barbaric. Furthermore, SAT scores are not modified based on race, and if you've actually followed affirmative action, the supreme court ruled that race can in fact, be a taken into account, but may not be the reason one student is accepted and another is rejected.
@hellionthesagereborn Furthermore, the assertion that immigrants from non-white countries make more on average doesn't take into account cultural/circumstantial differences between native born African Americans and African immigrants. You're assertion about the various ethnicity you previously mentioned also doesn't take into account the other European Americans that make exponentially more than minorities, and is seems that you just picked the groups that would support your narrative. It's hard to argue that different groups of European-Americans are disadvantaged when in general they make much more, and in modern society, are not significantly divided and stereotyped/discriminated against individually. What you're talking about is ethnicity, not race. They're two different things.
Much appreciated! At least the way I see it, it would be quite irresponsible of me to involve myself in the public discourse without taking advantage of the abundance of information many seem to take for granted. One of the biggest issues in American society today is the lack of an informed and educated electorate, so I try to make sure I know what I'm talking about or if I don't, learn the nuances of the issue at hand.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo No I did not because I was still writing. Further more as I pointed out we know that they didn't switch, again I presented the evidence i. e. their was only one person who switched, which is not the same as an entire party and we know that Robert Byrd who was a democratic senator and KKK recruiter was a democrat until the day he died, we know that Lyndon B. Johnson was racist (he was so racist he knew how to use racial slurs in the accent of which ever region he happened to be in, not to mention having actually told his own driver that he was nothing but a piece of furniture so when he called him boy he should let it slide off his back because he was a thing not a person). We know for a fact that the parties did not switch. Here are my links (even though common sense should have sufficed): blackrepublican.blogspot.com/.../...s-did-not.html https://youtu.be/2RBFOTdY1yY https://youtu.be/yu2VsZPplug
@YourNeighborhoodOreohttps://youtu.be/UiprVX4os2Y Their is no question that the "switch" is not accurate. As for your other claims, they are factually incorrect. Blacks can't compete? Again, please explain how Nigerian americans who are black, fair better then the vast majority of whites? I mean if they are not accepted based upon color then they should be fairing worse then every one not better. Did you even think about that? Of course you didn't because it doesn't fit your narrative.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo Statistically their is nothing holding blacks back in americ except for black behavior. This is an unarguable fact. Fatherlessness is killing the black community. That's why no amount of laws can change it because even as we change all the laws to make things easier for blacks blacks who are native born are still failing. It started in the 80s so we know its not "racism". You didn't read a thing I wrote because I already pointed this out, you just want to be racist because its easier then owning your actions. As for your claims about Nigerian americans making more then European whites who come to America not taking into account European whites who immigrated to America making more then blacks is, well stupid. If Nigerian americans make more then dutch, irish, and French americans among others then they do in fact make more then European americans.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo So not really sure why you tried to make that claim except that your desperately trying to grasp at straws. I also think that it does take into account a lot of things like how Nigerian americans have to cross economic barriers that native blacks don't, that they have to cross language barriers that native blacks don't, they have to cross physical barriers that native blacks don't and then they still out perform native blacks earning more then double. So we can state that its clearly not racist laws or the innate "racism" of whites (which is really racist by the way, claiming that all whites are just inherently racist because that's the only argument you could have that every one is out to get you who is white even though all laws and stats show otherwise). So again, we know for a fact, a FACT, that its due to black behavior not "racism" that blacks are failing.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo As for your writing, no its not very good, you didn't actually make an argument, you ignored everything I stated, side stepped and dismissed then provided no examples, no statistical data, no sources of value (I at least gave you multiple academics, almost all of which where minorities (so you could cry racism)). You didn't even provide a logical argument you just stated I was wrong and you where right. That's not an argument. Do research, research everything look at both sides, then use some common sense. That's why you are using logical fallacies, straw mans etc. to try and prove your point, because you don't have an argument because you can't argue against the truth.
@hellionthesagereborn It's a bit hypocritical of you to say that I didn't read anything you wrote. I've addressed a multitude of your points and contested many of the assertions you've made, you apparently just didn't read what you wrote. If you had, you also would've seen where I said "Don't mistake this for me saying that because you're white [if you are] that you're racist or anything like that". You're ad hominem's betray the weakness of your argument. You said MLK was a republican which is demonstrably false, you continue to use ethnicity to make arguments about race, you stated that there is a 400 point advantage on the SAT to being black rather than white, which is absolute nonsense, and you took my statement about Nigerians/Europoans drastically out of context. You conveniently leave out the disparity between the other groups of African-Americans and European-Americans. My point was that you used a cherrypicked statistic about ethnicity in a discussion about race.
@hellionthesagereborn I never once said anything "racist" in our discussion, but you feel the need to partake in character assassinations and ad hominem attacks so that you don't actually have to respond to any of the points I've made. If you call addressing your points "side-stepping" then so be it, but I don't think you understand that a presentation of numbers and statistics means absolutely nothing without context, of which you've provided almost none.
@hellionthesagereborn Furthermore, you seem to have this idea that the switch is about the names of the parties, when in actuality the northern/urban areas have always remained more progressive that then southern/rural territories. The democrats haven't always been the progressive side, but the modern democrats are characterized by being progressive, and are strongest in urban/northern areas, and the reverse is true for the south. The south used to mostly be democrats, but now the majority identify as republican. However, they have remained much less progressive than the more urban areas that characterize modern democrats. Hence, the term "the switch". The ideologies remained conservative in the rural south while the progressives have consistently been in the urban cities that are the modern democratic party. So while the democratic party of the early 1900's was against civil rights and whatnot, the communities that make up the MODERN democratic party have always been more progressive.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo No, you didn't. You didn't respond to anything I stated, not one thing as far as I can tell. You stated we live in a racist nation, that the nation itself is racist the underlying accusation being that the dominant population (whites) are racist which itself is racist (which is what I was calling out). But you didn't say how. You didn't address all the laws and programs and benefits that are only available to minorities are some how a symptom of this racism, you didn't address the fact that slavery existed every where and that 48% of all free blacks owned slaves (as opposed to only 1% of free whites). You didn't address the fact that it was blacks who sold blacks into slavery, or how out of all races and groups of people ONLY whites banned slavery, you never addressed that. You didn't address the fact that blacks are more then twice as likely to commit a hate crime (despite whites being the ones, according to you who are racist)
@YourNeighborhoodOreo Nor did you address the fact that the most active supremacist group with the most active members are the black separatist, again a black racist group. You didn't address the hiring quotas that only apply to minorities, nor did you address the fact that blacks are given bonus points on SAT's for admittanence while whites are given negative points, again despite the fact that you claim this nation is racist and its racist because of whites for the benefit of whites. You didn't address my points about how all data shows that blacks are more likely to kill a cop then a cop is to kill a black despite the fact that police violence is most often cited as an example of "racism" in our nation. So no, you didn't address any of my points. Their is no argument here, you did not address a single one of my many points. You claimed that whites are racist (because otherwise where is this "racism" coming from?) and that you are a victim and conviently left out any evidence
@YourNeighborhoodOreo of how this is especially considering that all evidence shows the exact opposite, and I do mean the exact opposite. In fact we have a better argument for proving that blacks are racist (in general) and that our nation panders to minorities and discriminates against whites (and Asian actually as they get demerited points when on their SAT scores as well). So again, no your wrong you did not address any of my points because you can't, that would require reality to be very different from what it actually is. As for the context remark, well I did give context, fatherlessness creates all the problems you see in the black community, I even gave the history of how this started, pointed out that it started in the 80s after the children born in the late 60s hit puberty when they are most likely to act on their impulses (as adolescents are more impulsive in general). If you want context to why blacks are far more racist then any other group I can give you that if you want,
@YourNeighborhoodOreo its because the left has told them to blame all of their actions and decisions on white people instead of stepping up and taking responsibility for their actions. But again this is just you making excuses because we both know my numbers (and all the context I provided for them) are right. Its not whites going into black neighborhoods and shooting them up and killing children and we both know that, its blacks. So again, your making excuses, your wrong, blacks are responsible for their lot in life, they are responsible for the fatherlessness, they are responsible for the gang violence, they are responsible when they rob stores and drive businesses from their communities, they are responsible for the negative stereotypes because they act beligerant
@YourNeighborhoodOreo and are violent (53% of all murders are commited by blacks) no one else who is poor does this, no one else who is black and from other nations does this, no one else with ancestors who where slaves (i. e. every one) does this, it is only found within the native black American community. Why? Well they have the highest rates of fatherlessness of any group which we know leads to all the things I pointed out. They also are the only group who is afforded excuse after excuse for their behavior. If whites whent around and beat black people would we defend them? No, but with blacks (like the "knock out game" and the many violent crimes they have commited against white people which go unreported) we do. If whites whent around and shot up neighborhoods and killed children would we tolerate that? would we make excuses for the behavior? No. But we do for blacks. So these two things are the root cause of all the problems and if we remove them we solve the problems.
@hellionthesagereborn It seems we just have a different understanding of what the facts are. The primary determinant of who commits crime is poverty, not race. I can tell by your dismissal of all the points I've made that you're not looking for a reasonable discussion, just repeating yourself in hopes that'll somehow be a convincing argument. I don't intend on talking to a metaphorical brick wall that wants to make projections and assumptions about my character based off of me disagreeing with him on the Internet, so best of luck to you in the future.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo I guess we do, I consider facts you consider them feelings. I mean your wrong but I can't stop you from believing it. As for your claim that poverty is the determining factor, that's patently false. Their are more poor whites in the US then poor blacks yet blacks are the ones commiting the crimes not whites. Their are also equally poor Hispanics but again, they are not commiting the majority of the crimes. Again, facts. But keep believing what you want, I mean ignoring the actual problem and blaming every one else for everything you do has worked out real well so far hasn't it? Oh, wait. . .
You haven't provided a single credible citation for any of the numbers you seem to consider arguments, so a conversation can't be had. Repeating a set of statistics is not a debate. Trying to have a rational conversation with you is an immense waste of my time, and I have better things to do, so goodbye.
@YourNeighborhoodOreo So a political scientist who has studied the history of the big switch for years isn't a credible sources? The fact is I can give you link after link after link from sites that are unbiased unlike yourself but what is the point? We both know you will never, and I do mean NEVER admit that your wrong. You can't, because that means that you and the black community would have to take responsibility for your actions, that means that the lies and ideology you have held onto and made apart of who you are would be a lie, it would mean that all the energy you invested in that ideology would be for nothing and you can't let that happen. You want links? From where? Because we both know when I post DOJ statistics your going to have some bullshit excuse for why they don't count, namely because they don't say what you want them to say. We both know when I provide the Harvard studies showing no police bias what so ever, your going to lie and claim that it is racist because it
Hm. I never thought of it that way but I see your point. I always thought that it was all the mans fault for not taking responsibility to take care of his kids. A lot of times the father is quite young and immature and doesn't feel ready to have a kid or doesn't want one.
Right because black women or women in general don't make shitty decisions, like saying only wanting a bad boy or a guy who is "street". Meanwhile in the real world, not only would that be considered a stupid answer it also means that your ignoring quite literally every other race and ethnic group from which black women could date. So again, that begs the question why do so many black women choose shitty men?
28% of black men make stable life choices, can maintain stable employment, maintain their relationship, household, etc... Is what I think you both are trying to say. We are discussing statistics so I don't think @hellionthesagereborn is off point because according to OP's statistics only 28% of black children grow up in stable homes. Maybe a little salty but that's statistics and we are discussing one of life's harsh truths.
I'm sorry, did I generalize? No, I mean you did, you said that almost all black men are worthless (a bad choice), I pointed out that that is stupid (and technically sexist and racist) and that black women need to actually take accountability for their life choices instead of saying its all men's fault. I wasn't saying their are not bad black men, there are, I was saying their is also bad black women you however where not saying that. In short you where generalizing and I was correcting you. Stop trying to push off what you did on others and just own your words and your actions.
Race does matter love. Despite, SJW and liberal thinking, stats show trends and behaviour are more apparent among one race than another. There is a reason why their is truth to stereotypes to a degree.
Yeah, but not to that degree. The reason it matters is because being without a father is incredibly detrimental to a child. It increases their likely hood to commit suicide, to suffer from depression, to become an addict, to commit crimes (80% of convicts come from single mother homes, that's not a small number) and be promiscuous themselves thus increasing the odds of the next generation being just as dysfunctional. that's about 72% for blacks, but only 30% for Hispanics and 20% for whites. So yes it is an issue that affects blacks significantly more then any other group and what we know about fatherlessness actually explains everything that is wrong with the black community to date and thus is the solution to all of their problems (poverty, drop out rates, homelessness rates, crime rates, drug usage etc).
there's a lot more to it than simply looking at the numbers and assuming the worse
- more black men are incarcerated than any other demographic in the US. so if a woman has a child with a man who goes to jail later did she make a bad decision - there is also a growing number of black women who opt to raise a child on their own because they don't feel the father is worthy of marrying but still want a child
there are of course those who opt to have a child with a bad dude but it's rather racist to say black women make poor choices of men.
anyone of any race can make poor choices when it comes to men. perhaps black women more than other women make poor choices but of course that is not the reality of all black women
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Let's use logic. if a woman married a man who later went to jail for a crime then their were most likely obvious factors/signs/activities that would lead one to believe him down that part. Outtside of wrongful conviction, no one goes to jail just because of their race. In such a case, yes the woman made a bad choice in investing.
Second scenario. The woman selfishly chooses to have a child on her own and thereby increasing a child's likelyhood to run away from home, drop out of school, have kids out of wedlock, become a rapist etc. All of these again have been statistically shown to increase greatly in a single parent household, not to mention placing a child at a clearly socioeconomic disadvantage.
Again it all comes back to choice. Men as a whole have little to no rights when it comes to these things. Thus, if the stats are as shown it must fall on the women. Society needs to stop excusing women and let them have so accountability.
" if a woman married a man who later went to jail for a crime then their were most likely obvious factors/signs/activities that would lead one to believe him down that part." - so if a man kills someone 10 years later that's the woman's fault for not being able to predict that event? should you be considered at fault for not predicting a friend doing something dumb years later?
"The woman selfishly chooses to have a child on her own and thereby increasing a child's likelyhood to run away from home, drop out of school, have kids out of wedlock, become a rapist etc. All of these again have been statistically shown to increase greatly in a single parent household, not to mention placing a child at a clearly socioeconomic disadvantage." - this is an oversimplification to suggest that a woman is selfish because she is leading a child down a path of any of the things you said. being a good parent will help avoid those things and two parents don't necessarily mean a kid is immune
-If a man kills a man 10 years later then said man obviously showed signs of aggressive behaviour which increased his propriety to commit murder. Most people don't go from law abiding citizens to committing murder. Psychology shows that those who do commit murder have tell tale signs going back all the way to pre-school and it is classified under Anti-social personality disorder. And yes, the woman is at fault for investing in said male.
-It is selfish because the woman puts the need of wanting a baby over the implication of what her decision will have on the child and how it would affect the child life. Single mother households put a child at a severe disadvantage compared to a two person households with reasons stated above. And despite what, media likes to portray a mother can never train a boy into how to become a man or interact with members of the opposite sex as she does not have the life experience/perspective of things from a male.
there are plenty of examples of good adults who are products of single mothers including more than a few presidents, CEOs, etc. you simply cannot say that a single mother made a bad or selfish decision, neither you or I can say that as a blanket statement.
and again the question may be fair if it says why do "some" black women make poor decisions but the question becomes racist and totally baseless when you ascribe the characteristic to all black women. but you make it racist and thus categorically false suggesting that all of those 72% single parents make poor decisions.
"If a man kills a man 10 years later then said man obviously showed signs of aggressive behaviour" you simply cannot say this and have it be true.
having a child is always a selfish thing. regardless of your marital or relationship status. but it doesn't mean that having the child is wrong simply because you are single.
i'm sorry but your arguments are based on so much personal bias and almost no fact or research aside from the 72% figure. so i'm not going to engage in any further back and forth over your opinion. you have your opinion. it's wrong. that's all that needs to be said
There are more examples of adults who aren't. Using an exception to try and justify that something is a good thing is a poor argument. Statistics back up that a child brought up in a single parent household is more likely to be screwed up than compared to someone raised by two parent.
Also i never put a blanket statement but compared to liberals and SJW i am addressing that it is quite clear that black women are making poor choices in men for the states for black kids without fathers to raise from 29% in the past to 72% where it is now. Trying to use exception as a blanket to hide behind for those black women who do make smart choices in partner will only allow this state of affairs in black communities to get worse.
This is why liberal mentality of always trying to use the argument of not looking at trends fails because trends let us look at a pattern which helps us as humans to see an issue at it's most simple point (rather than looking at case by case basis).
Yeah you can. If you picked up a psychology book you would realise that those who are prone to murder usually have tell tail signs of going towards those acts.
"Yeah you can. If you picked up a psychology book you would realise that those who are prone to murder usually have tell tail signs of going towards those acts." and that is true of 100% of murderers? no it's not. there is no single thing that is indicative of 100% of people's actions in some earlier discernible nature or trait. you are living too much in black and white and not willing to accept that there is a grey area in nearly all of human behavior
all murderers show signs of it earlier? if this were true then all murderers would be identifiable before they committed murder and what about crimes of passion?
Again you are acting as if we need to go by a case by case basis. The problem with liberals is they always try to go the "we are all special snowflakes argument". Patterns tend to show a trend.
As a world we do not have time to go by individual case by case basis but by what holds true for majority of cases and then form a general basis for the most likely and common outcomes. This is what we in academic disciplines.
So back to the question "Does it hold for all murders?" No. However, general trend and behaviour of people showing signs of murders tend to often:
1. Engage in conduct disorders 2. Break laws 3. Show impulsivity 4. Lack of empathy for others and justification for causing harm to others
And many other criterias you can find in DSM-5 in psychology. The thing is you are trying to justify the exception and minor cases for your argument which is an illogical way to debate unless of course your trying to disprove something by rule of exception.
The problem with trying to use rule by exception is it does not hold up practically in the more likely scenario and cases of what happens in real world.
Is it more likely that a woman being a man committed murder showed no behaviour prior to psychopathic behaviour prior to dating her or showing behaviour prior to her getting involved. The more likely answer is the latter, and because of this we focus on those reason as it still leads back to the likelyhood of a poor choice in partner and general result in statistics.
Using exception to justify that exemption of something is often a poor argument that many liberals fail to realise. This sort of thing often allows problem to fester because we can never come down to a general conclusion/sensus on something since everyone wants to look at everything by a case by case basis.
"3h As can be seen above. 42% of Hispanic women are single mothers. 25% of white women are single mothers. 52% of Indian women are single mothers. However,
2/3 of BLACK WOMEN are single mothers. Something is very wrong then in the choice of men BLACK women are spreading their legs for. "
none of these statistics suggest the level of involvement of fathers. these statistics only say how many of these women are married or co-habitating with their partner
What a rambling piece of nonsense. You don't seem to be able to focus in on any factual point.
D'Wade is a thug? When was he even cited for jaywalking? If your standards are being unfaithful to your wife or girlfriend, sorry dude, you have men from every culture and color guilty of that.
Gangster rap sells, and makes a lot of multi-millionaires, and historically much of their lyrics revolve around sexual exploitation of women.
One day at work, even the white women were listening to this trash, and I was like, "My God. How the hell can a woman actually listen to this guy and sing along with him? It's disgusting."
@AbleLearner Nonsense, you just talked about Dwayne Wade dude. You don't have the ability see cultural or behavioral between "Black" people. Just admit that and go on your own way. You have no idea about why women are attracted to men in general, so how can you understand anything about specifically about "Black" women?
He didn't stereotype. He gave an accurate statistics. So why would you claim he is stereotyping? He never said all black children grow up without a father, he said according to statistical data (statistics are not racist, they do not stereotype, it just states what is) that 72% grow up without a father. Completely different then what you accused him of. Do you not want to mention the problem because you don't want it fixed?
Both of you guys need to get your fact straight, because that 72% figure DOES NOT MEAN that 72% of black children grow up without a father. That 72% comes from the number of black children who are born to an unwed (unmarried) mother.
The number of black children who grow up in a single parent household is actually around 56%. However that 56% only tell us the type of household they live in. It doesn't tell us the contribution rate of the other parent whose not in the household.
But according to the CDC, Black fathers are most likely to interact with their children despite not living in the same household as them.
yes 56% is amuch better figure thanks for correcting us iam sure all black kids with no fathers are very happy and thrilled reading your comment especially after you jave fixed the problem.
I'm going to need for you to put on your reading glasses and read my post again along with the links I provided, because if you had read everything, you wouldn't have replied with such a ignorant comeback.
@Starrk 72% of children are born to unwed mothers, I apologize. However everything you else said was bullshit, yes I mixed those stats up, it happens, though to be honest it was only a 16% difference so its still insanely high comparative to other groups, which of course your ignoring, however again, a bias source stating something that isn't true is, well not true. Clearly you didn't think that through, some one who does not live with their child does not interact with their child more then some one who lives with said child. All you need to do is actually speak to black children and you will realize that. When a black child tells you he has a typical "black father", that carries weight, more so then sources that have been known to lie in the past. The Pew Research Center has shown a left leaning bias for quite some time, in fact so much so that when Obama was going up against Romney they claimed the media was bias in favor of republicans despite multiple other surveys showing the
@Starrk exact opposite, and by a massive margin as well. Its been caught using leading questions on gun control for instance as well as other biases. Again, if you actually look at statistics, all of them show this is a huge problem in the black community, the black community itself has admitted to this for the most part so again, the only thing your doing by ignoring the problem is ensuring it never gets resolved. I don't know why you would hate the black community so much that you want it to stay exactly the same as it is now, poor violent and riddled with drugs and unemployment, but I do not want that. That's why I am pointing out these problems instead of trying to use fallacious arguments to ignore hard facts.
@Starrk As for the CDC study, well first and foremost it was limited to about 4,000 men, so not really a good sample size, in my opinion. Further more it was not a blind experiment done, they where notified before hand what was going to be asked and for what reason which the men then voluntarily agreed to do the survey after knowing what it was a bout which is never a good way of doing things because you weed out those who, knowing that they may look bad, refuse to partake in the survey. That doesn't necessarily mean its unreliable but that needs to be considered. It also did not include men who where on military bases or in institutions (such as prison) which immediately reduces the possibility of negative responses, which again while not suggesting its a worthless survey must be taken into account, which I don't think your doing. The fact that it was self reported, again, also makes it less reliable. But the biggest factor is that it did not specify black fathers, it was all fathers
@Starrk which immediately destroy's any suggestion about black fathers being more likely to interact with their children then whites or Hispanics or Asians as again, 4000 men, to represent about 62 million men while blacks only make up 12.5% of the population which would mean less then 500 black respondents IF they stayed true to the statistical break down of race in America which likely was not the case. Meaning its such a small sample size that it cannot be applied to the black community even if we didn't have to consider that the other communities where essentially masking the problems found within the black community. But the most damning evidence is the fact that according to the CDC children who have regular interactions with their fathers are more likely to get good grades and stay in school (which is not the case in the black community) less likely to get involved with drugs and crime (which is not happening in the black community) and are less likely to be impoverished.
@Starrk Which of course as we can see from the black community is not the case. Clearly you didn't read the report, I got half way through it and already realized how inaccurate the method was and how it was being used. Its not applicable to what you are trying to apply it to. Now again, I don't know why you hate the black community, because lets be honest the only reason why you would sit their and claim that everything is fine when its very clear that it is not, is because you must hate blacks and are fine with the violence, drug use, and depression and broken homes or you have a vested interest in seeing the black community fail. So clearly you want the black community to fail, but I don't. I want them to succeed, that's why I am pointing out the problems and the solution to those problems, so that they can have good lives, so black children don't have to go through life without a father, so they can have all the things they should like a safe neighborhood and a happy life.
It's technically not a 16% difference because that 56% figure applies to all single parent household within the black community. If you we are only singling out Black households that are ran by a single mother, then the number is actually 48%. That 56% figure included single fathers and single mothers. So actually you were off by 24%. :)
"All you need to do is actually speak to black children and you will realize that. When a black child tells you he has a typical "black father", that carries weight, more so then sources that have been known to lie in the past."
So what is a typical black father. I understand the stereotype but 48% of black children are being raised by a single mother, and of those 48% we have no idea which percentage are truly without a father in their lives. From the looks of it, it would seem that most black children have some type of a relationship with their fathers.
Did you say I hate the black community. Bro, I have been looking throughout your post history, and you are the one who has history of overstating "problem" within the black community while being dismissive of the wrong doings that happens to them and understating the good things within the community (such as the rising black middle class).
If anything you are the one who should do some introspection, because as of right now I am seriously questioning your motives for even being in this thread. Surely you're not using this thread as a veil to attack a racial community? Because if you are then you're wasting my time.
Also you do realize that most of the black community is middle class and do not have these problems (violence, drugs, etc) that you speak of. Most of the issues that you are talking about are regulated to low income urban neighborhoods that are heavily influenced by gangs and drugs.
"As for the CDC study, well first and foremost it was limited to about 4,000 men, so not really a good sample size"
Um that is a good sample size. When companies do their polling on the entire population, they are usually satisfied with 400-1000 respondents. If you had a population of 100 million people and you gathered a random sample size of only 2700, that would still yield you a confidence interval of 99% and a margin of error of plus and minus 2.5%, which is pretty damn good..
There are roughly 70 million fathers in the US, so you don't need a huge sample size if you are settling for a modest margin of error of say plus or minus 2.5%. As long as you are not trying to accomplish a plus or minus margin of error of 1.0% then you could get away with a modest sample size for a large population like the researchers in this study did.
I do agree with you on the study being self-reported, but how else could you measure fatherhood?
I'm trying to look for this study from the CDC that you refereed to about interaction with father equates to all those things, because I've tried searching for it, and I couldn't find anything. I've found individual studies, but not one from the CDC.
And Pew Research Center has a great reputation for being accurate and on top of that it's nonpartisan. Just because a source doesn't always validate your conservative views doesn't mean said source is corrupt and apart of the liberal movement.
Also, I do want the black community to succeed and prosper, but that doesn't mean I'm going to start misinterpreting statistics and put a spotlight on them while demonizing them as if they are a monolith. The rise of single parenthood isn't a Black American problem. It's a global problem. Fragile families are becoming common worldwide especially in North America. So yelling at the black American community isn't going to make the problem go away.
@Starrk Listen, I don't really have the patience to get into this right now, single mother single father homes are still single parent homes with the same issues that each one of those brings so yes, its a 16% difference and in relation to other groups its a huge difference, the next largest single parent population is Hispanics at 30% that's 26% less, whites at 20% which is 36% fewer single parent housholds. I don't know why you tried to act as if what I said was incorrect as we where reffering to single parent households so you just confirmed that yes in fact 56% of black households are single parent ones. Your clearly just trying to attack my statement to attack it. As for black fathers, well speaking to blacks, and specifically black children, no they do not. In fact as I stated I was specifically told otherwise by said black child, the father is never around never visits is not involved in his life hence the child being as dysfunctional as he is i. e. skipping school, depressed,
@Starrk etc. So yeah, as the statistics show that all the things that happen when a father is not present are happening in the black community, and the black community itself has acknowledged the problem, and interacting with black children I can state that through their behavior and their own words that those statistics and "stereotypes" are accurate I'm going to say that, yeah what your saying is bullshit because nothing actually adds up in what your presenting. If they had fathers present then we would not see all the problems in the black community that we do, the black community would not be admitting that this is a problem, black children wouldn't be admitting that this is a problem. So please stop trying to prevent people from understanding and thus fixing the god damn problem. No, I did not say you hate the black community, I stated you either hate the black community or have some kind of reason to see them fail. their is a difference.
@Starrk I have not dismissed anything, I have presented statistical data, not feelings, not propaganda (as you do) statistical data. I bring this up because avoiding responsibility and blaming every one and everything else for something has so far been a very poor method of solving their problems, most of which started occurring in the 60s after we started seeing an increase in single parent households. So yeah, I dismiss some things because their is no evidence for it. What middle class blacks exactly? Statistically the only blacks that are middle class or getting to middle class are African born blacks, native born blacks are still as impoverished as ever (yet another bit of evidence showing that fatherlessness is the problem not "racism" or "evil cops" which statistically would apply to all blacks but seem to only affect native born blacks who are convinced the world is out to get them and their actions have no impact on how their lives turn out).
@Starrk So again, you try to use propaganda claiming that most of the black community is middle class which suggests you must not live any where near an urban area or you would realize the exact opposite is true nor do you research anything you state because then you would realize that the average household income of a native born black family is only $30,000 a year which is not middle class, it is in fact considered impoverished ($25,000 a year is impoverished, but most are in urban centers that have increased costs of living Hence $30,000). Meanwhile the Average income is $56,500 dollars, so no, they are not middle class and in fact the middle class is shrinking. Again, hard facts and data with a little common sense and critical thinking goes a long way. As for the CDC study, as I stated, it would have been fine, I think its a little low personally but its fine in and of itself EXCEPT that its trying to apply a general statement to a specific group. As I pointed out statistically 400
@Starrk of those would have to be black fathers which you conviently ignored, it wasn't the number but the fact that a general statement was being used incorrectly (by you) to determine what was happening within the black community. 4000 is fine if we are talking about white fathers, if we are talking about a specific community however you need a sample size within that specific community which the study did not do nor intend on doing. It was a generalization, one that did not take into account the difference between said groups, and their are many. You cannot assume that if something is true for one group it is automatically true for another which again, you where doing, that's what my point was, you would have had a incredibly small number of that 4000 actually be representive of the black community. Again, your just attacking my argument to attack it because you clearly did not consider anything I stated, your just arguing because I have the audacity to not toe the liberal line.
@Starrk As for not being able to find the CDC study, I never said their was a CDC study, I stated that the CDC study you presented mentioned how a fathers interaction with their child increases school performance etc. etc. etc., its literally in the study you presented, yes other studies also have shown quite conclusively that lack of father figures are horribly damaging to children, which of course should come as no surprise but often does for some strange reason. Did you not read the study you presented? No you don't want the black community to prosper because you are misrepresenting data, you are covering up very important facts and your trying desperately to hide what the real problems are because your ideology is in danger. You care about your ideology not the black community, your ideology is poisen to the black community and you don't want to admit that that's why your misrepresenting data or out right lying about it.
@Starrk No the pew research center does not have a "great reputation" for being unbiased, its very left leaning as most media and academics are, they toe the line. That's why as I pointed out they claimed that media was being conservative and unfairly judging Obama during his second term when literally every other source stated the exact opposite, that the media was unfairly representing democrats as good and conservatives as bad (something that has been backed by literally every single legitimate study). So again, left leaning. That's the problem here you go to the left to defend the left not facts, that's what causes bias which the Pew Research Center does. As for the breaking of families, yes its getting quite common in the US, because of liberals telling people that fathers are not needed, that single mother hood is just fine, instating laws that allow women to function as single mothers thus removing any incentive not to be one and
@hellionthesagereborn In the name of Ahura Mazada. I don't know what more annoying. That wall of text that you replied with or this condescending attitude that you possess.
The problem I most have with your post is that you are singling out a community for a problem that is happening worldwide. Single parenthood is no longer a problem exclusive to the black community. It's a growing problem that has penetrated all communities. So you can stop being condescending, stop being pretentious and stop patronizing black people as if they are too dumb to realize that they have a problem with single parenthood.
"Your a racist bigoted piece of shit, their is no way around this." LOL. I'm racist? You obviously are not familiar with my post history. And being called a racist by a person who has done nothing but criticize black people since arriving here is hilarious.
Stop projecting your flaws onto me and do some introspection for a chance.
If the problem of single parent hood is increasing among all communities with each passing decade, then it's no longer a black problem it's an American problem. The Black community were simply affected by this problem first which is why they are so far ahead, but the other demographic are now creeping up as well. The cause of the problem is evidently not exclusive to just the black community if others are being affected, so don't you think we should stop treating it like a black problem and start treating it as a nationwide/global crisis.
Also, I'm not defending any ideology and to be honest I don't know what mainstream ideology you're even referring to because even Barack Obama and Brookings Institute (a left leaning think tank) even admitted to the high rate of single parenthood and Obama never missed an opportunity to talk about it when speaking at HBCUs and locations where the black community were present in full force. So what ideology is there to defend?
@Starrk You do not like to listen do you? Its almost as if your intentionally ignoring what was stated. If all groups have an increase of a couple of percentage points but the black community has an increase of almost 40% then yes, yes it is in fact a big fucking deal one that is affecting the black community specifically because of how high the rates are. How is that hard to understand? I mean really? Are you seriously going to try and downplay its impact when its far far more serious in the black community then all others? I mean literally every other groups rates combined do not come to the same number as within the black community, so again, yes its almost exclusively affecting the black community and while its an issue in general its negligible in all other ethnic groups. Your ideology is the one your adhering to right now, I presented facts and reason you ignored it, clearly that's an ideology, and yes its primarily liberalism because that's the only ideology that actively
@Starrk tries to ignore problems within the black community. Your trying to downplay it and for what? Because its racist to present facts? Because it might hurt some ones feelings? Meanwhile entire generations of blacks are suffering because of people like you who try to hide the facts and thus prevent the implementation of solutions. Its quite despicable.
@hellionthesagereborn No one is denying or ignoring the high rates of single parenthood in the black community. Hell I was the one who brought the correct stat of 56% to the forefront, so there is no downplaying occurring on my part.
Single parent rate by race/ethnicity. Blacks = 54% Hispanics = 30% Whites = 20% Asian = 13%-15% National Average = 29.1%
I'm looking at single parenthood as an American problem because the rate of it is steadily increasing among all backgrounds. While the black community obviously has a higher rate, I would be hesitate to try and make it exclusive to them. It's the same with the obesity problem in America. Black people are more likely to be obese/overweight then whites, Hispanics and Asians. However, we don't call this a black problem despite their higher rate of being obese. We refer to obesity as a American problem because the rate of it is increasing throughout the entire nation, despite the fact the some groups have a higher percentage of it
@hellionthesagereborn But let's hypothetically say that we do categorize this situation as a Black problem. And through social changes we manage to get that high single parenthood rate down in the black community. How exactly is that going to counteract the rise of single parenthood in other communities (especially in the Native American community which is trailing behind the black community). You see I am of the mentality that we should nip a potential problem in the bud before it even becomes a problem. The high rate of single parenthood in the black community should have been dealt with back in the 60s when it reached 25%. Not in 2010s when its 54%. Waiting until the last minute to try and rectify a well known growing problem is a pet peeve of mine and that is exactly what you are advocating for. So when should we start focusing on Hispanics and Whites single parenthood rate? When it becomes an epidemic? or when it's convenient for us?
@Starrk Yeah you are ignoring them because you keep saying we are singling out the black community for something that is happening every where, the implication being that the rates are nearly even when in fact they are not even close. So again, no your not being honest about the situation. As for your other remarks, which again is specifically designed to brush the issues of the black community under the rug, it may or may not help but again, its not at the dire levels as it is in the black community so you have significantly more time to repair that damage (for whites its been fairly steady at 20% over the past fifty years, again for blacks its jumped from 18% to 56%) so its a moot point, its like complaining that we should ignore some one who will die of a disease within the year because some one else will die of it in the next fifty, no, that's not how it works. yes they are both issues but one is far more pressing and wide spread then the others. Its really quite simple.
@Starrk Further more in order to rectify the problem liberals would have to admit what the problem is to begin with namely welfare programs that encourage single mother hood by providing income to single mothers thus allowing poor behavior to go unpunished i. e. it doesn't look bad if your still making money, previous to these welfare programs that where specifically directed at the black community (they literally sent people door to door in the black community notifying them of these welfare programs) we saw about 18% of single parent homes. Then you combine that with feminisms war on the family unit (this is their own words as well, not heresay or opinion) we are having these issues which again, hit the black community first. Your solution is to ignore the black community and focus on those who are in decent shape and have had minimal change in family structure vs. again, the multiple generations that have been destroyed, its not a good system your preposing.
"for whites its been fairly steady at 20% over the past fifty years, again for blacks its jumped from 18% to 56%)"
Incorrect. The single parenthood rate for whites in 1970 was 8%. It's currently 20%. The single parenthood rate for blacks in 1970 was 33% and its currently 56%, so both demographics have experienced an increase, but the increase for the black community is more stark so I will concede to your point in regard to the black community needing more attention.
A solution to the issue is another story. While welfare was certainly a cause in the high rate, getting rid of it won't necessarily rectify the problem since its hard to take away an entitlement after its been given (ex: Obamacare).
@Starrk Okay, now your starting to piss me off. yes it wasn't always 20% as I already stated, many fucking times. HOWEVER, your ignoring the HUGE fucking leap in the black community and the fact that this number has held at about 20% for whites for the past fourty fucking years! Did I at any point suggest that their was not a change? No, in fact I stated their was, I stated when it started happening (60-70s) then pointed out that after this point it remained relatively stable as this graph shows: www2.ed.gov/pubs/YouthIndicators/indfig11.gif So what the fuck are you arguing exactly? Yes it is happening every where as previously stated, but in the black community as the statistics and the graph show its so significantly worse that to claim that its some how even is completely moronic to such an extreme degree that one has to wonder how any one who makes the claim can even have the mental capacity to properly feed themselves. SO what are you arguing?
Either you can't read, or you only read the first sentence in my post, because If you would have actually read my post through its entirety you'll see that I conceded to your point about the black community needing more attention due to the stark (no pun intended) difference and rate of progression.
So at this point in time, all you are doing is arguing with yourself because I checked out of this discussion yesterday.
Also, word of advice. Learn to keep your emotions at bay when in a discussion, because throwing a temper tantrum and throwing out unnecessary curse words in an online discussion is weaksauce. :)
@Starrk Yes I read that part which is what I have been saying this entire fucking time. Hence my confusion. If I said we need to focus more on the black community as its a far more pressing problem then you claim that we should not because every one has to deal with this problem, then after I point out multiple times that its significantly worse in the black community and has skyrocketed after the sixties: tse1.mm.bing.net/th You then tell me I am wrong and in the same paragraph tell me you agree. So yes, I would like to know what the fuck your arguing because at this point I don't think you even know. As for my emotions, I have spent far to much time explaining this to you and you essentially saying "nu uh" over and over again, then suddenly saying that I am wrong but also right. I think its understandable that I am a bit perturbed at your irrationality.
@Starrk Make up your damn mind, seriously. I mean honestly what the fuck is wrong with you? (also I am not angry just irritated that your wasting my time because you don't even know what is going on any more (if ever).)
@Starrk That's not devils advocate, that's not knowing what the hell your talking about, your not presenting an argument your saying your wrong, but also right. Pick one.
I am seriously questioning your reading capability.
This entire discussion has been me playing devil advocate. Please don't tell me that you never realized that after almost 6 days of debating.
"your saying your wrong, but also right."
WTF. If you actually took the time to read instead of skimming through my post which I know you are doing. (It's either that or you can't read, pick your poison). You'll see that I said...
"I will CONCEDE TO YOUR POINT IN REGARDS to the black community needing more attention."
You see. I conceded to ONE PART of your argument. The part I didn't agree with, however, was when you said this..
"for whites its been fairly steady at 20% over the past fifty years"
Which IS WRONG. It wasn't "steady" at 20% over the past 50 years. It INCREASED to 20% over the past 50 years. In 1960 the single parenthood rate for whites was 8% it's now around 20%. If you call that steady then you obviously don't know what the word "steady" means.
@Starrk Not really, you where arguing but also ignoring everything that was said. I mean you can just look at the previous posts where I pointed out that its worse in the black community and then you argued that we shouldn't focus on the black community because its happening everywhere then a couple days later you suddenly state that we should. That doesn't sound like devils advocate, your not presenting a counter argument then seeing where it goes, you presented a "counter" argument (not a good one, it relied on ignoring facts) then continued that same argument repeatedly. It seemed more like you realized you either misread or it finally sunk in and your trying to save face. but it doesn't matter.
@Starrk No it has been steady, also in the 50s the black single parent homes where far less then 30%, in fact national average was like 7 or 8% if memory serves, in the 60s it started to spike, by the 70s it started leveling off for all other groups but the black community, hence the links I presented showing exactly what I had been stating this entire time, that their was an initial spike but then very minimal increased rates for the black community and relatively rapid increase within the black community, again, I would say 1 to 2% within 50 years would be relatively stable (again I did point out that they where increasing but at a rate that is rather insignificant, especially when considering the rates within the black community.). I don't understand why this is hard to follow. I gave you the data, I showed you the graphs, several of them, why can you not follow the data? Also yeah, I am even more convinced your just trying to save face.
You should really think before you speak. If I was saving face then I wouldn't have conceded an argument. A person whose saving face wouldn't risk the potential humiliation of conceding an argument. Hurr Durr.
I'm getting tired of repeating myself so I just going to start copying and pasting my issue with your post until you get it right.
"for whites its been fairly steady at 20% over the past fifty years"
" It wasn't "steady" at 20% over the past 50 years. It INCREASED to 20% over the past 50 years. In 1960 the single parenthood rate for whites was 8% it's now around 20%. If you call that steady then you obviously don't know what the word "steady" means."
I wouldn't blame the women, blame the men if anything. They are the ones not stepping up and taking care of their families or disciplining their children. Black women are the ones working, and holding it down.
I have to burst your bubble. You're talking about non married women. There are couples that are together but they are legally married. So that number it's true. However you're correct about quite a few black women choosing thugs or men with swag.
Seems more like a poverty thing to me. When you grow up in poor neighbourhoods, your options/opportunities in life are pretty limited.
This goes for men and women.
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There doesn't seem to be a lot of good men to choose from in the black community. A lot of black women are raised around thugs and criminals and this is what they're used to.
Or should I say the way you wrote it is wrong. Being born out of wedlock and being without the presence of a dad in your life is different. If the father is involved even without marriage to the mom, then it's not a child without a father.
Oh that worry white and other races of women will catch up eventually. Black community was the test subjects to see if all of this works. It's to conquer and divide the family.
Home > Girl's Behavior > Questions > 72% of Black Children grow up without their fathers: Why do Black Women make sure poor choices when it comes to men?
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