Is "Kill All Men" toxic or not?

[Anonymous]

I know it's not mean to be taken literally, but is it really a "catch-all" flawless phrase that accurately pin points sexist men with no refused for female rights and gender equality?

I hear many things such as:
"it's a joke, if you're offended you're part of the problem",
"Women say that to vent, let them has this",
Or even "so what who needs men anyway".

The best way of handling hearing this is as a male who is trying his best to be an ally, is to just ignore it, but I can't help but draw parallels since if a man says anything like that about women, I'm supposed to stick up for them.

I know it's not a major issue or anything, but I can't help but feel like its a form of masculinity to tell men that if they're offended by hearing that, that their feelings are either invalid or toxic.

Please let me know if I'm missing something in my thought process, thanks.

[ludorock]

Hey there, anony, I want to start by saying that no one should be saying "kill all..." anyone. And I do hear it a lot about men, and I do think it's harmful, hurtful and wrong. I think that there is a lot of talk about 'all men are trash' or 'all men this...' and while I understand the mentality that - well obviously it's not all men, obviously it's not all men, and if you're offended then it's because you see yourself as one of those people.

Well, no. I don't buy that. I understand that it's a way for people to vent, I understand that there's not as much power behind it as a man saying "I hate all women/fuck all women" so on and so forth, especially because of our recent history of violence perpetuated by men because of their view of women. But that is nonsense.

I don't want anyone to group me in as "all women..." so why do I have a right to do that to men? It's still hurtful, and you have every right to be hurt by it. If I'm venting to a bunch of my girl friends and I say something like that, because I had a rough day and a man being an ass was what pushed me over the edge, then... one thing I guess... I still don't like the violent language of "kill" or "hurt" or anything like that. But we DEFINITELY have no right to be talking like that in public forums because it's hurtful and cruel and not true.

Men are valuable, men are funny and wonderful and bring wonder and joy into the world, I love men, everyone should love the men in their lives. And we need to tell men all of that. We need to be telling men that they are valued, that they are allowed to be kind and loving and gentle and sweet and that they are beautiful, and they're allowed to feel beautiful.

TLDR: I don't like it when people talk like that, people shouldn't talk like that, no matter who it is. I don't like being grouped up into 'all women' so why would I do that to someone else?

[Asker]

Thank you for your take. I grew up on the internet because, I was a loser who didn't have many freinds so public forums and social media are how I and many other men are exposed to society. In highschool I was pretty anti-sjw but in college I became much better socialized and I never fell into the the alt-right pipe line.

I guess I struggle to understand why women aren't jumping in the way they tell men to. When men are making jokes or venting like that, it's toxic. Being upset and saying remarks like that as a man is grounds for toxic masculinity. Even if it's private with friends men are not supposed to tolerate it. Why is there even space to women to privately say things like that?

[Asker]

I'm not trying to antagonize you, sorry if I come across as such.

[ludorock]

Kill all men, or other similarly violent statements are entirely unacceptable in any setting, I would say. But plenty of people express mass frustration against those that harm them in safe spaces - "I'm sick of straight people", "Cis people suck", "I'm so done with men", etc... Expressing overall frustration with the way you are treated based on one facet of your identity, by someone who is not of that identity is fine, because some times you need to, but speaking violence? That's way too much.

[Asker]

Yea, but men expressing themselves in safe spaces is considered "locker room talk". That's the double standard that I'm not understanding.

[Asker]

"women are gold diggers", "women are shallow", "women just use men" those even in safe spaces we're told are not acceptable

[ludorock]

I think there's a difference between calling a group of people a name and saying that you're fed up with something, or you're tired of something. "I'm tired of women", "Women suck" that kind of stuff, after a rough break up or after a day of women just being dicks. I would never say that "All men are rapists" or something like that.

Again, I don't think any one should really be saying it, I stopped a long time ago because I realized I didn't like it, and all it does is make people feel bad. But I won't fault someone for gentle complaining.

[stillagoodgirl]

def toxic and unhealthy as we all have a father