Men should cover up and start having some self-respect!

LuckyLittleLucy

Not something you hear a lot, right?

Change "men" to "women", and suddenly it makes a lot more sense. Doesn't it?

It shouldn't. I recently read a post that said that if women covered up, these things would happen:

  1. They would have more self respect.
  2. They could "remain a mystery" and "save themselves for the right man"
  3. Women would be less sexualised.
  4. The amount of rapes would decrease.

Men should cover up and start having some self-respect.

I'd like to tackle these things individually.

Self Respect

According to this idealogy, not covering up my body and being proud to show it off (if you are comfortable with that) means that I don't respect it. Hmm...

So if I have the confidence to wear clothes that show my body off in a good way, I clearly don't respect my body.

It doesn't add up. You can respect yourself whilst being covered up and when you're not being covered.

"Saving yourself" and "being a mystery"

Actually you don't have to.

If you don't want to be a mystery and you don't want to "save yourself for a man", that's okay.

But if you do, the way you dress doesn't really affect it. In my opinion, remaining a mystery is being enough of yourself to remain fun and interesting, and keeping yourself to yourself enough so people want to get to know you more.

Also, saving yourself for somebody (because you can save yourself for a woman too) if you want to, go for it. If you don't, that's your choice. Nobody else's. And "covering up" won't change that decision.

Women will be less sexualised

Let's think. Who is the most likely to sexualise women because they're not covered from head to toe?

Probably the people who see women in a sexual light. Which is quite often men. Is that the women's fault?

No.

Men should cover up and start having some self-respect!

Rape

Possibly the most controverisal "advantage" of covering up. Let me tell you, it makes no difference what women are wearing. Because if it did, children wouldn't get raped would they? I know it's horrible but it had to be said.

And once again, I will reiterate:

Rape isn't about sexual gratification. Rape is about violence and overpowering somebody. Sex is merely the weapon.

It's literally about weakening somebody to make yourself feel more in control or powerful.

I feel like this quote sums it up better than I ever could.

Men should cover up and start having some self-respect!

I think that that says it all.

Men should cover up and start having some self-respect!
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Most Helpful Guy

  • heavensgift2girls
    Your third point completely destroys any creditability your first two points had. Any attractive person regardless of their gender that is dressing sexy is going to be sexualised. We all know that. That is just reality. If it is wrong to sexualize women, and women are sexulizing themselves by barely wearing anything, then it means the first two points must have some truth behind them. It is only when there is nothing wrong with sexualizing women that the first two points no longer matter at all.

    As far as rape, I agree that has nothing to do with what the woman is wearing. Rape is about opportunity, and not about how attractive the rapist finds the other person. I also agree with the fact that men should be offended by that. Because men are more open about our sexuality, men are seen as sexual perverts and rapists in our culture. We can't even hug a friend without people assuming it is sexual in nature. Which is why so many people including men fear a woman might be hurt by one of his fellow men, that can't control himself. People can be sexist against their own gender and this is unfortunately a common problem.

    In short people are too busy judging each other instead of letting other people live their own lives. Women get slut shamed, and men get pervert shamed. Both need to stop.
    Is this still revelant?

Most Helpful Girl

  • Minxxie
    When a man tried to rape me I was wearing a hoody and sweatpants, all he cared was that I was alone. So I hate that excuse for shaming women it isn't true and I know that first hand.
    Is this still revelant?

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What Girls & Guys Said

1248
  • pnl86
    Be careful what you wish for ladies, desexualize men, and all of a sudden, women all over the country will now have to pay to get into bars and clubs, for their own drinks, won't receive any kind of special treatment from any kind of guy, and as women will be busting their butt to stay financially afloat, happy single men all over the country will be wondering where to invest their loads of cash parked in their checking accounts. It's the kind of idea that would make for a good comedy.

    On a more serious note. "Black people should be offended when someone says, 'He was an idiot going into a low-income high-crime neighborhood with a $2,000 suit, his flashy Rolex watch, with $100 bills flying out of his pockets, and half drunk. Of course he was going to get mugged.'"

    Really? "ALL BLACK PEOPLE" should be offended? Why? Are ALL BLACK PEOPLE criminals and robbers?

    Did you see the flaw in that female line of thinking? It speaks volumes about the level of hate some women carry inside them towards men.

    It's not "men" who are incapable of control, just because the "rapist" was a man. It's "rapists" who are incapable of control. Take a logic class.

    Plus, when a man is walking drunk under those circumstances into a low-income and high-crime neighborhood, society rightfully (yes, RIGHTFULLY) ridicules such a person for his stupidity, because he's "unreasonably exposing himself to a KNOWN RISK." What's the KNOWN RISK? CRIME! There will ALWAYS BE CRIME! You can't STOP IT. You can only AVOID IT. Society doesn't attack him "because he was a victim of a crime." NO! Society attacks him "because he's an idiot!"

    Stupid comments like, "We need to teach our boys to not be rapists" are what's sexist, because comments like that 'pre-suppose' something inherently negative about being male.

    If a girl walks near black-out drunk, alone, late at night, half-naked, anywhere where people exist, she's exposing herself "unreasonably" to the risk of a crime. She could EASILY AVOID exposing herself to that kind of risk. But instead, she wants to be an idiot and say, "Nahhho! (burp), Men should like just not rape women, like ever. Men suck."

    Wow.

    Yes, tell a paranoid schizophrenic suffering from a manic/psychotic bipolar episode that he just "shouldn't be violent." Let's start a program to "teach" people that. So, in case they happen to be "fcuked up in the head one day," that will totally be money and time well-spent. (sarcasm emphasized).
    • LightsOff

      Most rapes actually don't happen outside in the dark in some dangerous neighborhood or street, so that "point" you made there is kinda irrelevant.

      "It's not "men" who are incapable of control, just because the "rapist" was a man. It's "rapists" who are incapable of control."
      Then why do other men keep making up shitty excuses for these rapists?

    • pnl86

      Why do other men keep making "sh*tty excuses" for these rapists? A "criminal" is someone who is clearly deviating from the norm in terms of their "physical" brain functioning or "cognitive" brain functioning, in such a way that they are unable to conform their behavior to what is "lawful." Forget "socially acceptable," just "lawful" (i. e., not criminal). Sometimes, that's so severe that an "insanity" defense excuses culpability, but unexcused "criminal" culpability is the result of people who have mental problems. These people "need" to be locked-up so that they are no longer a danger to society.

      The fact that some of these criminals happen to be "black," or "hispanic," or "men," or "white," or "female," doesn't therefore mean that "Men have criminal traits."

      That's your own hate towards men talking.

    • Goldie757

      Guess what I always pay to get into bars and clubs, and for my own drinks and don't want or receive any kind of special treatment from any kind of guy. I pay my own bills and rent while going to uni with 2 jobs.

      I depend on me.

    • Show All
  • Ozanne
    Rape is a touchy subject. Just like @Minxxie I was raped when I answered the door to a guy-friend (who I had previously rejected sexually), while I was wearing my sloppy loungewear and had no makeup or my hair done. He was already going to rape me. That was the intent. The second he had gotten inside the front door he grabbed my wrists and pulled me in to the living room. He was angry, and wanted to control. Like, now, my attitude then was "no one is going to control me", but it fails when someone is raping for power.

    I felt as thought when I dressed up to go to bars, I certainly got the attention, but often times, guys view women the same way they do when they channel surf. They will dart their eyes around from woman to woman and maybe even stop for a second on one and react, "Whooaaa check her out," but then continue to "channel surf".

    The average Joe who enjoys going out and bird-watching doesn't rape. They just hang out with their friends like frat boys and enjoy their good-timing. The men who rape, do it for power, and if you look at most men who are charged with rape, take a look at them and their personal lives. They're losers. They have few friends, not many people like them as a whole, and they have trouble controlling their anger. The woman they attack could very well be the girl who works at the gas station who told him to fuck off when he asked her out, waiting for her at closing time. Or it could be like my case: a guy friend who was rejected sexually who couldn't handle it. Elderly women are raped, women covered in burqas are raped. Soccer moms are raped. Children are raped.

    I think dressing provocatively garners a ton of unwanted attention, sure. It sends a message about what you think of yourself. Some of the sexiest women I've seen cover up all the right spots and still drive men crazy. All dressing down does is send a message saying that you believe coming across as a sexual being will put you ahead of the pack. It doesn't. It actually puts you behind the pack in the end. As for rape, these women are not really any more susceptible than other women only that they might come close to the unwanted sexual attention and sexual contact more than other women because men might be more inclined to hit on them and think they're okay to touch them. As for following through with the rape, I really don't think so. Though I'd love to know a statistic that talks about this.

    Great Take though! Overall, more women should be aware of their "messages".
    • I find it interesting that you insist on sliding the "CONTROL" and "POWER" words in there and sentences like "when someone is raping for power"... To try and coincide with the rape is about power and control idea we keep hearing.
      But as you stated you previously rejected him sexually... he wanted sex. Rape is about sex.
      He may have used power and control to get the sex, but sex was the underlying reason.

      As I stated above actual studies of real rapist have proven this.
      - www.drtraycehansen.com/.../writings_politics.html
      - emmatheemo. wordpress. com/.../ <---this is an article which discusses the study with sources.

      I don't get why so many females want to insist that rape is not about sex but is about some male need to dominate and control.

    • @LogicBomber seriously? We don't just "slide" the words CONTROL and POWER in.
      MYTH: Men rape for sex.
      The truth is that rape is not only about relieving sexual desire. It is about gaining power and control over another person. A rapist gets satisfaction by humiliating and controlling his victim and uses sex as the tool to do this.
      TRUTH: Rape is more about having power over someone than about sex.
      You can argue your point with the Rape Crisis Trust if you'd like. Here's the link to that quote
      rapecrisis.org.za/.../

    • It isn't a MYTH... it's a validated truth. Rapist who happen to be male rape for sex. PERIOD.
      The only people who seem to believe it has anything to so with power and control are people who have not ever been or ever will be MEN.
      Pointing me to a female biased rape crisis center statistic page does NOT show any truth to your claim, it just proves that feminist propaganda is used to push an idea.
      Talking to ACTUAL RAPIST and doing a STUDY on WHY... is a NONBIASED and TRUTHFUL STAT.

    • Show All
  • CityBoy773
    I find this funny how every guy is disagreeing, shows how angry they get when the lights on turned on them. Sad really, but funny too.

    Otherwise, I agree with you 100%. Hopefully this gets through to people, but I highly doubt it due to what society says for now.
    • Unit1

      Indeed. Butthurt overload detected :)

    • Thanks, but most of the comments ( form the guys especially) are pretty crazy!
      I literally just wrote it with my opinion, as much common sense as I can muster (which isn't always a great deal) and true facts form genuine studies.
      People still want to disagree though , which is fair enough

  • PhoenixRisingDK
    First, come to terms with the fact that rapists exist, regardless of how you dress.
    Naturally, nobody sane approves of rape.

    But walking alone, half naked, through the park in the middle of the night probably isn't the smartest thing in the world to do.

    When I ride a bike in the city, I never pull up beside a lorry taking a right turn, I always stay behind.
    Why? Because I'm not gambling the chance the driver is aware of me, even though I have the right of way. Yet, I've seen numerous accounts of cyclists mowed down claiming their rights.

    Now I'm not saying women shouldn't dress how they please, take any route home they want, at any time they see fit.
    I'm just saying there's no reason to be stubbornly stupid - because rapists are out there, just waiting to grab a hottie who wanders off alone half naked.
    It's not like a dedicated rapist suddenly has a vision of truth and righteousness, when surfing the internet, and see stuff like this.
    They don't give a shit... really, they don't.

    There's absolutely no harm in being mindful of your choices and your self-conduct.
    I know I am all the time.

    I have the freedom of speech.
    I can go tell a group of bikers to go suck each others dicks, and they're not allowed to touch me.
    That doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to do it for the fun of it, as there's a good chance they'll beat the shit out of me.
    People will even laugh at my bloody remains and say I was being stupid and had it coming.

    Do as you please, but also do what you can to stay safe.
    Because a rapist doesn't give a shit about your right to dress as you please.
    And they don't disappear because you post our rights on the internet.

    The thing about criminals is... they don't really care about your rights.
    • I get it. But the point of this Take isn't to say "do what you like, you might get raped anyway" because you're right, walking alone, especially at night is dangerous. However, unlike those to things, the way you dress actually has NO link to the likelihood of you being raped. So yes be careful to try and keep yourself safe but the point of that section was that the excuse of "conservative dress makes you less likely to get raped" isn't valid, because it's been proven wrong.

    • As said it in another thread:
      The way you act or dress does't cause rape.
      Rapists cause rape.
      You can't entirely prevent rape either, but you can take precautions.
      A rapist may or may not have a preference for drunk flirty girls in revealing outfitst, and you may or may not take that into consideration when going out.
      Either way you go about it, stay safe and never wander off alone, but stay with a trusted girl friend.

  • KayStark
    With all of this comes down to one thing understanding with actions come consequences good or bad. Showing skin does increase your likelihood of being raped by a stranger that's for sure. It's like me sayimg I left my house door open when I went on holiday and got robbed. Although it's not your fault logically speaking there are ways to reduce this chances by locking your door. Rape is similar dare I say it. Even thou it's not your fault you could of slimmed down the chances. I dont think im victim blaming instead im using rationality.
    With sexual objectification the media has to stop it because humans learn from vicarious reinforcement which is learning from what others do and the rewards and punishments they recieve. If the media said objectification is disgusting men wouldn't do it so instead of blaming guys you have to blame the source. It's a bit like a child having a shit mum and a bad childhood and you blame the child for there behavior when in reality some of the blame is the upbringing. In liFe you can't expect everything to be perfect you have to deal with what's in front of you and what's reality instead of bitching about what the reality iS. If a gurl is wearing a crop top and short shorts and is drUnk at night of course she has sone responsibilty.
    In society where to scared of putting some blame on the victim sometimes it's necessary otherwise they'll never learn and think what they were doing was fine When in actuality some precautions need to be taken.
    That quote about your natural state is a rapist isn't smart. I find it wrong that for women to convey societies double standards they insult a man because he simply doesn't agree with u. That's the sort of thing which makes our feminist movement seem man-hating. If you want someone to agree with u u dont insult them in the process.
    • Sara413

      The quote you are disagreeing with literally says that men are NOT animals.

    • "That quote about your natural state is a rapist isn't smart."
      It's not supposed to be. It's meant to be honest. It's saying that men are not all animals or rapists. It's saying, don't let society portray you that way by saying dress causes rape. Because it doesn't. Scientifically proven.
      Read it again and look at the actual meaning.

  • LogicBomber
    The reason it makes more sense when you put women in place of man is because men don't walk around half naked expect women to not look at them and constantly bitch and moan about the attention they are desperately try to get.

    Allow me to send you to this post...
    www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a10332-the-narcissistic-dress-code-let-girls-wear-what-they-want

    If men DID dress the way women did, they would very quickly and openly be shamed.

    When it comes to RAPE... it would absolutely decrease the amount of rape.( Keep in mind that rape is not 1 in 4 and is actually much rarer than you are told but most people stick to the KOSS study because it sounds scarier.)

    Don't carry on with the "what she wears doesn't create rape"... we know that! But what you wear DOES increase the likelihood. That's a simple logic. In the same way a child who is being watched by parents is less likely to be abducted, or a locked car is less likely to be robbed... A female who makes it harder to get to her body parts is LESS likely to be attacked! It doesn't completely guarantee it because crazy people still do crazy shit, but just like the other examples... taking PERCAUTIONS reduces the risk! PERIOD!

    And stop with the RAPE is about power bullshit. Rape is about sex! There have been actual NON-feminist biased studies which questioned ACTUAL rapists and the overwhelming majority said sexual gratification was the cause... NONE said POWER or Humiliation!

    www.drtraycehansen.com/.../writings_politics.html

    emmatheemo.wordpress.com/.../ <---This is an article which discusses the study with sources.
    • bang678

      Instead of teaching women to cover up how about we teach men not to rape? Gee, there's a concept..

      As far as how men vs women dress, thats just the point. Women shouldn't be as sexualized. And if we really wanted to pull in a free the nipples debate, we could, because men are sexualizing parts of women that really shouldn't be sexualized.

    • Oh the ol' "teach MEN not to rape" like men don't fucking know rape is bad or something. Jesus.
      Men (even rapist) know it is wrong, how is this so hard for people like you to understand!
      You believe that if someone went up to a rapist and said "oh by the way, rape is wrong" they would be like "Holy fuck are you serious... I had no idea". That idea is simply moronic.
      It goes back to the other crimes. Criminals know what they do is wrong, they are fucked up in the head and do it anyways. So your idea is the same as teaching pedophiles not to touch children, or thief's to not steal. Instead of teaching people to take precautions to protect themselves from bad people. It's an idiotic "concept" and the fact that people actually believe it would work more than teaching people to take precautions to protect themselves, and take responsibility for their own actions to prevent crimes against them. I mean COME ON how can you even say that without feeling foolish.

      ...

    • In regards to women being sexualized…
      www.forbes.com/.../
      BOTH men and WOMEN see the female body differently in the brain than they do the male body. Women objectify women just as much as men do, and it’s mentally programmed. YOU can NOT change it! SO let’s stop the MEN are sexualizing women comments, because it’s equal and we are not the scapegoat of responsibility women seem to always treat us like we are. Take responsibility for your own actions instead of pretending men are always the reason for everything you hate.
      Next time you look at another woman and size her up, and compare something on her to something on yourself… remember that MEN do NOT do that. We admire the beauty of the female body but we don’t compare it. We are less critical of women than other women are of other women.
      ...

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  • lemonlimetime
    Excellent take. Although I'm a pretty modest person and kind of enjoy covering up I don't see anything wrong with other girls wanting to wear something less modest (unless they're literally walking around naked I think then I'd have to draw a line). The part about rape is so true. It really doesn't matter what you're wearing. If you're alone and defenseless I think you already have a chance for rape regardless of what the heck you're wearing.
  • Jay-Are
    Those things that men (but also women) say is something you should not take too serious. Lot's of people say stuff like "have some self respect". However it is a term somebody else once said and without putting any thought to it they just repeat it. Kind of like a parrot.

    I also think it's used by men as a form of control over women. The power a naked woman can have over a man is sooooo much greater than a naked man can have over woman (mostly).

    Would rape decrease? Yes and No? I am sure a lot of rape happens because guys get too aroused by what women wear. But it is also to blame that we are not used to seeing body parts of each other. And also from the day we're born we're told that it is wrong to look at other peoples body parts. That's why it is so appealing.

    A guy would maybe get aroused by seeing a women in a very short skirt. But let that same guy walk around at a nudist beach and that feeling of arousal would be gone in 15 minutes. Why? Because it is not special anymore. Everybody does it.

    Personally I feel we should wear whatever we wanna wear without being criticized by others.
  • miserybusiness
    Yeahhhh I never got that clothes thing, the clothing you wear has absolutely no correlation to rape. If that were the case, chicks in countries where burqas and hijabs are the norm would be completely safe from sexual abuse. But they obviously aren't.
    • Locking your car has no correlation to car break ins happening.
      Keeping your kids inside has no correlation to kids going missing.
      Hiding my money and jewelry has no correlation to being robbed.

      These things all happen regardless of the precautions you take to protect yourself from them, but that doesn't mean we should stop doing things to protect ourselves from them.
      You STILL lock your doors, watch your kids, hide your valuables... take personal responsibility for your safety and not expect bad people to just "learn" not to be bad people.

      Why is it so hard with this topic to grasp the simple concept that what you wear doesn't "create rape', but it does reduce the possibility. Logic tells me that if a rapist had in their mind to rape and was given the option between a person in jeans which would be hard to get into and a girl in a miniskirt going commando... seriously... like an unlocked car door... It only makes sense that the easier target will be hit. Therefore, Protect YOURSELF!

    • @LogicBomber
      You'd think so, but it's really not true! @mithramitzmittu got raped wearing jeans. (No offence to you- I'm literally just speculating) But she's probably worn "provocative clothing" and she wasn't raped then.
      If you want an extra reason for that, see my comment on the 1000+ rapes of men in London.

  • sdistotallyme
    I rarely hear guys 18-35 criticize women for how they dress. On the other hand I have overheard girls trash talk each other (usually out of jealousy) about how they dress.

    I do get pissed off when girls dress provocatively and then blame/shame men who stare an extra minute at their bodies.
    • You're right. Women who do want to show off their bodies should be accepting of the attention it brings. But I think a lot of girls get upset by other women's clothing choices because they don't have the confidence to (or feel like they can't) wear those clothes themselves?

    • I absolutely believe that's true. Women will backstab and criticize each other when they feel underconfident/jealous. However guys will be guys and we're not too discreet when it comes to checking girls out. We do get better at when we get older but we still slip up occasionally (I actually slipped up last night on this one). It has to do with our testosterone levels. The vast majority of women have no idea just how powerful the hormone is. I doesn't give us a license to be a creep by any means however women should give men a modest about of leeway when they dress provocatively.

  • PiuBelloAmante
    Teach boys that they are not sexual objects...
    Well why don't we teach or girls that they are not sexual objects too! The problem doesn't only come from men!

    Seriously! All little girls see is adds, commercials, shows, and movies where the female body is exposed and cherished! By doing so girls begin to think that they are only as good as their bodies which is horrible!

    Look at Ariana grande, Miley Cyrus and some other child actresses
    They went from being 'normal girls' from Disney to hyper sexualised girls in their music!
    These are girls that little girl watched and admired growing up and now these actresses completely objectify themselves and promote sexualization
    • bang678

      Just like any person, women are sexual beings. If we use music as an example guys can have a very sexually explicit song and no one bats an eye. If a woman has a sexually explicit song suddenly she's "trashy".

      By no means should women be told to hide that its okay to be a sexual being. It should be taught that its an option, and if they are that they don't owe anyone anything.

    • @bang678 you are already a brainwashed girl who completely bought the Bull Shit of Pop culture and the sexualization of women! you yourself have bought in to the objectification good job =)
      Its not an issue of male and female! its a problem for human beings! can't you see that!
      I agree men shouldn't be objectifying women in songs, or television, but its us to up to protest these shows! i dont watch television or listen to songs that do this (Main reason why i dont listen to almost all rap music)
      Its not ok to be a sexual being, its actually not healthy and has caused a whole generation of women to be insecure and thoughts like yours just breed more objectification

      Women can be sexy and affectionate at times, thats fine, but when you have 14 year old girls exposing their bodies its not alright. I think as a whole society the sexualisation of girls is a really bad situation. Its up to all of us to change this to help raise less insecure and more confident women

    • bang678

      No one gets mad when men act sexually confident (whether it be how they dress or how what they say)
      But if a woman acts sexually confident suddenly its big deal.
      Even with small things like being able to discuss sex at all. Women who even discuss sex are called sluts or trashy. But if a guy mentions that he's had a large number of sexual partners and he patted on the back.

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  • checkyesjulietx
    Yep that says it all. On GAG I've seen some pretty terrible stuff about this kind of thing. I once saw a girl say it is 'poetic justice' for a girl to be raped if she was wearing revealing clothes. Not only is that dehumaniIng, it is a complete insult to me implying that their willpower and self-control is overpowered by their sexual urges towards a woman revealing a bit of skin
    • *de-humanising

    • I think that girl may have implied that it was "poetic justice" (a bad term, I agree) because she didn't take precoutions, not because it was her duty to cover up. Yes a woman can dress how she likes but there are ways she can dress to minimize risk.

      The same way a rich person has the right to go through a dangerous neighborhood flaunting his expensive clothes and trinkets. Doesn't mean he is not stupid for doing so.

    • I understand what it means and I still am disgusted by the phrase. Theft has all sorts of socioeconomic causes and is not comparable to rape so it's not a great analogy. Rape is about dominance and power over the victim, a completely different scenario. I agree girls should take precaution but poetic justice is too much of a justification for my liking @thisdudehere

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  • RationalMale
    let's be real.

    we men are sexual and visually stimulated.

    if an attractive girl dresses in a way that shows off her physical assets, men will look at her sexually and admire those breasts or that ass. that's life. dress sexually, you'll be looked at sexually.
    • bang678

      There's a difference between admiring that someone is physically attractive and treating them like a sex object.

    • @bang678

      hence why you should dress like you're not a sex object, if that's what you prefer.

    • @RationalMale how do you dress "like a sex object"? Wear a condom costume? Because they're sex objects... Not sure how you turn a woman into one though...

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  • James0
    Always hate when the blame pushed on to women, it makes men look like animals :o i think men should be taught more
  • KAZ-2Y5
    i am a feminist and i agree with all the above i also hate when men use the excuse that women need to cover up and they would not be assaulted. Seriously? i have heard of women being raped wearing sweatpants or in the middle east where they wear burkas. i shall now prepare myself for the inevitable, bitter male fury storm
  • gotc147
    Uh if you haven't noticed, men are already pretty damn covered up. If a man wears shorts that go more than just barely above the knee he must be gay and don't even get me started on if a man dares to wear a speedo to an American beach.

    I work outside in the North Carolina heat, trust me when I tell you I am envious of the girl next to me being able to wear shorts that only cover half or less of her thigh, those few inches make a difference.
    • I understand, but the point is, that girl (from my experience ) will be told that it's "offensive" and they "should cover up". I get that you get (dare I say it) "discriminated against" for wearing short shorts, but so do girls- for different reasons- so surely we should be challenging that for BOTH genders, with BOTH genders?

  • 9mfeo
    Girl, tell it. That was the dumbest question I think I've ever seen. Prepare yourself for the inevitable bitter male firestorm.
    • Unit1

      That was said with craft :)
      male firestorm... inevitable

      I agree!

  • evenlift
    Men and women think differently, though.

    And woman-on-man rape isn't even legally classified as being rape in many countries. So, it's pretty ironic that you would even raise that.
    • Sara413

      But in many countries it IS defined as rape. And guess who fought for that legal inclusion? Hint: it starts with an "F" and ends with "eminists".

    • evenlift

      @Sara413 No. You are just wrong. In fact, in my country (the United Kingdom), when rape legislation was last changed (2003), it was the feminists in government who steered the bill through Parliament and who ensured that woman-on-man rape would not be included in the definition of rape. As I mentioned in a different comment to you, a man who gropes a woman's bottom and a woman who rapes a man face the same legal charge and indeed the former could well get a tougher sentence than the latter!

    • @evenlift you're facts are right but rape is classed as "penile penetration", therefore it is physically, literally impossible for a biological female to commit that crime.

  • WeeGeeTheSecond
    This mytake is very deep, and it raised me many questions...
    Like for example: Is there a way to block annoying feminist posts on my news feed?
    • Dipsy

      They make no sense at all lol

    • Derpyy

      Then is the second one I've had the misfortune of dealing with and I just woke up! Indeed, IS there a way to filter this crap out?

    • Derpyy

      *This

      Damn phone.

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  • Rawrzz
    Eh. Yeah. I'd agree with the self respect. I would never dare say anything to jeopardize less clothing worn by women, of course.

    It's still a mystery, even if she's wearing three dots and a string. And, even then, it's not like personality is as big of a thing for guys. Otherwise, women wouldn't feel the need to dress as they do. And thank God for that. And, really, I don't care about mystery, in the first place. It's not like some chick will come up to me, flash me, and then I'll be like, "Oh NOOOOOO! THE MYSTERY IS RUINED!" No. I'll be like, stunned, and hypnotized in boob heaven, while studiously examining nipple shape.

    I really don't know. I do know one thing, though. It is not a good idea to carry around cooked and deliciously smelling steak around a pack of dogs (not relating men to dogs, in *that* way). Maybe most of the dogs are well behaved, but then there are the ones that just jump on you all happy-like "OMG STEAK I CAN HAS?", then, there might be--just might be--a really pissed off doberman with rabies somewhere in that dog pen who ends up allured by the steak and then rapes the person holding the steak.

    I can't say one way or another if dress code has anything to do with who a rapists decides to rape, most people say no. But, to me, it seems like common sense that walking around naked would solicit a stronger sexual desire than a woman clothed in Arctic gear. BUT! I would never do ANYTHING to prevent women from wearing yoga pants... I'm kidding. Absolutely kidding. Dress code clearly and completely has *nothing* to do with rape. :D

    And who can really say why rapists rape? Are you a rapist? I can gladly say I don't know why the fuck rapists rape, but I would assume sex is at least most of the goal. Much like walking around in shorts that don't cover your butt is, in part, to catch dudes' eyes and in part because it's hot outside.

    Also. It's hot outside for men, too, but it's not like we all walk around in a g-string. And, we don't walk around in speedos (well, the self-respecting men don't). If it really was because it's hot--and that might be some of the reason, but--really. You do it 'cause you wanna look hot. I mean, sexually. Not temperature wise... Nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend.

    As for not being viewed sexually... Same thing ^^^^^. Would ladies really be happy if men just didn't look at them sexually, at all? Ultimately, YOU ARE sexy. That's not *ALL* you are, but that's part of it. Just like men.
    • Rawrzz

      And, it's not about trying to get men to not view women sexually. I mean, that's sorta antithetical to the very nature of... the entirety of human existence. It's about teaching people to respect others' will. If someone says, "Oh, no. Please do not insert that knife into my abdomen." You should go, "Oh. Okay. I guess I won't stab you." And, unless someone goes, "Hey. Let's have sex." You shouldn't have sex with them. Bam. Simple.

      I mean. The difference is supposed to be a sexual object versus a sexual being, a person with a mind and goals and aspirations and beliefs and such: not just a vagina. But, any way you look at it, you have a vagina and boobs and a--probably--alluring body. Nothing will ever change men desiring it in a sexual way. Pretty sure everyone already knows that, and that women are actually people. GASP! Although, some of the chicks I've met are pretty much on the border of human/some subspecies of some blonde monkey.

  • genericname85
    it only doesn´t make sense, because we allready do.

    nobody tells a girl to wear winter clothes in summer but is it really necessary to show 80% of your titts and wear pants that show half of your ass and a cameltoe? i dont think so!
    • it´s not about preventing rape, it´s about human decency. if i hang my balls out of my pants, i get arrested. if a girl hangs her titts out and puts a sticker on the nipples it´s fine... clearly a double standard.

    • You do realize that as a man you don't need to put a sticker on your nipples so that you aren't arrested right? That seems more like a double standard than comparing her nipples to your balls.

    • You clearly didn't get mz point.

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  • anon4122
    So, I firmly believe women should wear whatever they want where ever they want. ( Unless it literally becomes a case of nudity.) That said 1 expect men to look I mean do women not look at men they think are hot if they go shirtless? 2 That quote about rape at the end is false. In America (can't speak for anywhere else.) We seem to treat rape different from non-sexual forms of violence. No one calls it victim blaming when we tell people to behave defensively about any other threat in life whether it comes from people or not and whether or not it is intentionally done by them or not. Defensive driving is never called victim blaming. So, while it is NEVER the victim's fault. We should always try to be safe not sorry because people immoral enough to rape don't care if it is cool or legal. So, the only way we know of now to be safe is to be strong and or have protective items like pepper spray. To learn how to end rape we must do psychological research on rapists and why they rape not just tell them "Swiper no Swiping" and it will take time to find that out and then to end the problem. So lets do both fight to end rape (in an actually smart way) and be safe until the fight is one.
    • cipher42

      Context is very very important, and that's what your missing in your rebuttal to the victim blaming thing. The facts are that women really are told all the damn time that they are somehow at fault if they are raped. When they report it, they are often asked what they were wearing, how they were acting, all that. This happens FAR mor rarely with people reporting stuff like robbery or other forms of violence. There really, truly is a HUGE issue with victim blaming in cases of rape, which just doesn't exist with the other types of violence you mentioned. So yes, we treat advice about defending from rape differently than advice about defending from other types of violence and robbery, because it often is different, and appears in the context of a society that already has a huge issue with victim blaming, which necessitates wariness about the quality and implications of such advice.

    • anon4122

      hmmm. Sources?

  • Lolomon
    We were put on this earth naked. We didn't come with clothes. If you look at tribes (indigenous) people they are naked everything is out except their genitals. The naked body isn't sexualized , the only thing that is sexualized is between their legs. a woman should be able to butt naked and not fear rape, nakedness is our natural state. You dont see owmen raping men who show skin, and trust me the right guy with the right body will turn a woman on.
    • SakuraChii

      I agree, finding breasts attractive is actually a fetish created by our society

    • The problem is that to desexualize the female body, we would have to normalize it. Meaning guys would have to see the female body all the time just like they do in those tribes you mentioned. The moment we tell women they have to cover up, we have just turned their body into sexual objects, otherwise there would be no reason for them to cover up in the first place.

      Currently any act of showing the female body is being treated as objectification, slutty, perverted, demeaning to women, or is in some other way seen as immoral. Making the normalizing of the female body almost impossible. So the solution is actually being treated like it is the problem.

  • fuuuark
    Women are innately sex objects to a far higher degree than men (it's biological due to reproduction ratios, i invite you to do as much research as you want). It's literally the biggest advantage the female gender has.
    • fuuuark

      lol at those who down-vote me, don't be mad at the truth

    • cipher42

      If we're talking about nature here, what about the fact that naturally it's the males who tend to have to attract the females and flaunt themselves? How it's generally the males who are far more brightly colored in order to attract mates? So logically, if it were only about nature, it would actually be the men who would be far more sexualized and attractive. So don't give me that bullshit excuse. This ain't about nature, it's about society, so don't you fucking dare write it off as just something that can't be changed.

    • I agree with @cipher42. And also, we are not animals, we have morals and can tell right from wrong. You basically compared yourself to.. Hmm, for example.. A dog?

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  • Anpu23
    Out running today, 90°+ Fahrenheit. Not wearing a shirt, and yes as far as I am concerned girls should be able to run topples as well, I was told not once but three times to "put a shirt on". For the record nipples bleed from cloth rubbing on it.
    • you whore

    • Anpu23

      Such language, I think I might be shocked.

    • It isn't surprising. The more often a member of either gender covers up in their daily lives, the more upset people get on the rare occasions they see them uncovered. When men did more manual labor guys took their shirts off all the time and it was no big deal. Now that guys are wearing long sleeves and ties to work more often people are starting to have an issue with guys being shirtless. They just aren't use to it so it bothers them. It is similar to how countries where women can run around naked, and no one cares, but in the countries were women are expected to completely cover up, people are outraged when a woman shows a little bit of skin.

  • Jager66
    That last pick is totally narrow sighted and off the mark, it's a good representation of the entire take.

    Like it or not rapists exist and taking precautions to ensure you are less likely to be a target is called wisdom, anyone advocating for a measure of personal responsibility in your own safety is not making the presumption that they are barely capable of keeping their rape drive under control. That last pic is nothing but shame propaganda devoid of logic.

    This post reeks of typical one sided, narrow vision, irrational, shame propaganda you can expect from your every day Feminist. The author may have a valid point to make but went about making it in entirely the wrong way so we will never know for sure.
    • Sara413

      Clothing literally has NO CORRELATION to a woman's likelihood of being raped. Assuming that it does makes a very narrow-sighted and offensive assumption about men in general, and it is that you are ALL a bunch of potential rapsists and the sight of a woman's thigh or cleavage will cause you to lose control and attack her.

      I just don't believe that about men. Pardon me for believing you are human beings capable of controlling your impulses.

    • Jager66

      "NO CORRELATION" wrong, and what you mean is causality but we will over look that.
      in 4.4% of rapes provocative behavior was a factor, including clothing and for murder cases it was 22%.

      Also your using false logic, advising someone take preventative measures concerning rape =/= a presumption that men are inherently violent. I'm glad you don't believe all men are violent criminals, this makes you a sane person but please also try to be a rational one.

    • Sara413

      Woah, a whopping 4.4% cite "provocative behaviour"? Well then.. that settles that argument! lol

      You realise that provocative behaviour is A) very subjective and B) means a lot more than just what a person was wearing, and C) doesn't necessarily mean sexually provocative... right?

      With regard to the murder stat, provocation is probably more often than not a verbal or physical argument/fight. Provocation can be anything as simple as the victim calling the murderer an ass hole or a douche bag. I highly doubt that in most of these cases the provoking factor came down to the woman's outfit...

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  • Aeon_Flux_21
    I just don't care anymore. Gender war, gender war, gender war and 1st world problems. Women at this point are trying really hard to start a gender war.
    • zagor

      I don't think they're trying to start a gender war I think they just like to complain.

    • I'm not trying to start a gender war,, I'm literally just saying:
      "Stop telling me I'll be raped and hated because I wear vest tops and skirts.
      If you don't like that style of clothing, don't wear it."
      Why? Because after a while, it really starts to get to you. I don't try to upset people and I'm not easily swayed by what others say. But genuinely, I dress in a way that makes me comfortable and it sucks to be told that that isn't good enough, that I'm wrong to have my opinion, that I'm making the wrong choice.
      Just because you can see my bra straps on a hot day when I wear a vest.

  • muspelhem_5
    I don't understand slut-shaming and I never will.

    Men: you can't both complain about being under-sexed and then also complain when women are having too much sex for your taste.

    I KNOW you think they're having sex with the wrong guys and should marry you instead, but face it: people make their own decisions in that department.
  • Jimrat86
    1. Women long for attention and love it. Self-respect has nothing to do with it. You can have self-respect and still want attention.
    2. Women would be more likely to "Save" themselves if they covered up. Wrong. A lot of women are very promiscuous. The clothing they wear will not change their personality or life style in the slightest.
    3. Women would be less sexualized. Nope. Men would just be talking about what they would like to see underneath. If anything, they may become more sexualized.
    4. Less rape. Wrong. Rape artists are mentally ill or sociopathic individuals. The kind of clothing women wear will not stop them from their actions.
  • mithramitzmittu
    A great take! the idea of "woman should save herself for the right man" has really no value in my opinion (didn't mean to offend women who are saving themselves) because men go fool around with anyone they want and expect his future wife to be "pure". not fair! Freakin' double standards of these socities!
    • I don't think that double standard exists in most western countries. In western countries that is most often a case of two different groups of men that want something completely different in a woman. In your country that may be more common. Countries that hold more importance on gender roles are always going to have more double standards.

    • As harsh as it sounded, What you said is true... but i heard from other western countries about the gender bias. don't just take it out on India.

    • A lot of what you hear about the gender bias in western countries is caused by people not realizing they are dealing with different groups within those genders. Such as there being one group of guys that doesn't have a problem with people sleeping around, and another group of guys that doesn't think either gender should sleep around. After being with several guys in the first group, a woman may find herself rejected by a guy in the second group. Then she complains about what she thinks is a double standard. Both genders have this problem of generalizing each other, instead of realizing they are dealing with different groups.

      Don't get me wrong there will always be some sexist people in any country, but currently men and women are more clueless about the fact they are dealing with separate types of men and women that don't all want the same things. Even a lot of the advice on this site is designed assuming there is one type of advice that should apply to all men or all women.

  • Mistnigqa808
    #NiceTake/agreed now for some random rap lyrics #YAY!!!

    " Cuz I got little niggas tryna earn stripes
    I could write them a check for your life
    They might walk up and check you tonight
    40 sneeze we gon' bless you tonight"-#LilHerb i1127.photobucket.com/.../ezgif.com-add-text.gif
  • Bluemax
    Yep. I don't think there's a correlation between your clothing and being raped. The other things you mentioned are pretty spot on.

    Where we might part company is the idea that men shouldn't stare at you because of what you wear. Let me ask you, LuckyLittleLucy, is there ANY level of exposed female skin at which you might think "Perhaps you should cover up if you don't want men and women (yes, women stare at other women, too) to stare at you?" Any level at all?
    • I think if you don't want people to stare, don't put yourself in a position that will invoke that. So you could argue that's at any level. I believe people should dress in a way that makes them feel comfortable- but you must also take into account the attention you will receive. So if the attention makes you uncomfortable, you probably shouldn't wear said items of clothing.

  • NatashaJ
    Damn straight I'm so tired of looking at man boobies especially the fat ones like put a shirt back on you fat cow I don't want to see that only guys with six packs should be able to take their shirts off (sarcastically).
  • TripleAce
    1. Women gain respect from confidence and being classy, not from covering up
    2. Mystery? I don't think it works that way. "Looks attract, but personality keeps"
    3. If you think women dont want to be sexualized, you missed the mark
    4. True rapist dont rape based on her being the hottest, real rapist have much more completed thought processes for that, and most of the times the girl is not even the hottest girl around
    • TripleAce

      So women should do what they want and men should too

  • Noxifer626
    I like this take so much I'm actually scared of reading the comments.
    • Haha! Thanks! Honestly, I'm scared of some off the replies I'll get- people don't trust it!

    • Noxifer626

      Youtube is 10 times worse than this place, I can tell that much.

    • I never read Youtube comments- too intense!

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  • LightsOff
    Yup. Not to mention that women wearing all kinds of clothes (even burqas) get raped, soooooo... there's that. And I really hate it when people claim you don't have self-respect. Self-respect = doing whatever the fuck you're comfortable doing and not giving a single fuck about what other people think of you (within reason of course). Self-respect is knowing what you want. Self-respect is being confident in your own skin. Self-respect is not letting someone else dictate who you should be. And I really agree with that last picture. When you guys make excuses for rapists, by saying that "oh she was wearing this, or acting like that, totally understandable that he raped her" you're pretty much agreeing with the fact that men are scum who have absolutely no self-control whatsoever and that you refuse to take responsibility for yourselves and your actions. Quite frankly I don't understand why anyone would want to be a shitty person like that. Absolutely nothing to be proud of.
  • GoodDogNigel
    Uh, other than the rape bit, shaming due to clothes is what women do to each other, men don't give a damn.
  • oracle12c
    My take on this is:

    1. They would have more self respect.

    Self respect have nothing to do with it.

    2. They could "remain a mystery" and "save themselves for the right man"

    Men usually don't care about a woman being a mystery or not, saving themselves for the right man is good in any case - same goes for men.

    3. Women would be less sexualised.

    Not possible, man and women are both sexualised because of human nature. It's the way it works.

    4 . The amount of rapes would decrease.

    No rape is not about the woman at all, it's about the rapist. Rape is done pertly for power/dominance and partly for sex, the victims usually just that, victims.
  • RandomStudent
    It's mostly women pushing these ideas that women that dress "slutty" have no "self respect". I can't imagine any straight guy my age saying something like that, just wear whatever the fuck you want. However, on certain special occasions you should cover up and dress decent, and this goes for males too. I encourage everyone to take fashion seriously and dress nice though, I'm sure most women aren't turned on by guys who wear dirty wife beaters all the time, and girls can make similar fashion mistakes and just look bad for no reason.
    • Clinkz

      If I put potential cultural/religious differences aside then there's a remarkably small amount of men that actually think this way. I'm just saying that this is a classic "putting everything under one roof" kind of discussion that a lot of people like to use as an argument.

    • anon4122

      agreed I think people are far more judgmental of people the same gender as them for whatever reason. The difference is men seem to admit this more to me. That last part though is purely my experience.

  • CountVronsky
    This take is out of date. There will always be a few guys who say "you shouldn't dress like that" because there will always be mean people in the world. The majority thinks otherwise, though, or haven't you read the answers of guys around here? Make the question yourself, find out, and get over it.
  • TheGreatShepherd
    In my experience as boys we are told to cover up far more, at school or out of school.
    • This is actually true. Go to any beach and there will be more material covering the average guy than the average girl. Even in formal attire women can get away with things like sleeveless clothes, and have a slit in her dress showing her leg. Guys are expected to wear long sleeves, and pants that go to our ankles.

    • Also just we are expected to wear suits not dresses, at school we aren't allowed shorts or tank tops but the girls are allowed skirts and all of there arms revealed, I can't think of one example of the reverse, please can the girls who down voted me explain!

    • Actually, guys wear skirts too. Most men just don't.
      But now skirts are coming into fashion. So perhaps you don't need to cover up as much as you think?
      Maybe it's a question of are you brave enough to wear a skirt?
      www.buzzfeed.com/.../men-that-rock-skirts
      These men wear skirts- not all of them are full length either, you'll notice.

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  • Sara413
    Fucking BINGO on the end quote. That's what always bothers me about rape apologists. It's like, do you REALIZE what you are saying about men? You're saying they're a bunch of fucking animals who have no self-control! That's ridiculous! It's sexist and offensive, and jut plain WRONG. Men are human beings who are more than capable of controlling their impulses. Several of my favourite people in this world are men. They are wonderful people who understand boundaries and respect. Don't you fucking DARE assume they're animals.
    • Sara413

      I should also probably mention that when I was raped I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt.. so, um, yeah.

    • Saying that people should take precautions to protect themselves from bad people in NO WAY says that all men are rapist! It says that making it more difficult REDUCES the change that someone bad will do something bad to you.
      Assuming that all rapists are male is sexist and offensive and just plain wrong.

      You are right when you say Men are humans who are capable of controlling their impulses. Because we are. This is why you can't simply "Teach men not to rape"... We already know that! A rapist is someone who is messed up in the head, just like any other criminal.

      The reality that bad things can and will still happen to someone who takes precautions is still there but when you do take precautions, your reduce the chance!

    • Sara413

      There are different kinds of rapists... there are those who attack violently and they obviously know it's wrong, but there are others who push boundaries and disregard consent who may or may not realize that what they are doing is a crime. They might realize that what they're doing isn't totally straight and narrow but they don't take it particularly seriously. I'm thinking here of young guys who intentionally get young girls drunk and take advantage of them, or women who assume it's ok for them to force themselves on a man who doesn't want them, or guys who pressure and pressure and pressure a woman until she finally relents, feeling like it's her only real option...

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  • James19
    Personally I think clothes are made by humans and is a artificial thing. Naturally we all should see each other naked all the time since we were born so that we will be fed up with it and won't have effect on arousal or with modesty or morality. I miss the pre stone age so much!!!
  • grahamcracka
    I agree until half a girls butt or boob is hanging out, then it turns into something. I mean you can't be demanding respect but leave your sweaty butt print in starbucks chairs
  • YourNextEX
    Men and women are different. Nature made us that way. There are different standards for different genders. There are certain things men are expected to do (e. g. ask a girl out, pay for dates, have muscles, open a car door) and certain things women are expected to do. It's okay. We are naturally different.
  • Well, there are things like slutty clothes. As long as you're not wearing them, such things shouldn't happen and should be taken seriously if they do.
  • Red7336
    yea because both have the same exact anatomy and both are equally attracted to different body parts...

    w/e
    learn the difference between equality and similarity kid
  • danodamano333
    That last picture. Yes. Just yes.
    • It's true though! I'm pretty sure you're not an rabid animal that needs all these boundaries to stop you raping somebody, you just... don't.

  • FidemMeam
    You don't have to take it all the way to say "men's natural state is rapist." I have plenty of self control but I don't like seeing a woman flaunt her hot body all over the place, because it is sexually tantalizing to me and it bothers me cause I cannot have her. It makes me depressed or resentful without even knowing her, because I just see a beautiful woman whom I can't have.

    I don't see a barely clothed woman as lacking self-respect. Just the opposite, I see a narcissistic and arrogant woman who wants to show off her body. Instead of keeping it something only her husband sees, she wants EVERYONE to see how beautiful her body is. Which I don't like, but nevertheless I respect her right to show it. But that doesn't change the fact that if I see a woman like that she is going to catch my eye. I didn't say I would RAPE her, just look at her. Cause that's how men are wired.
    • So you want women to cover up, because you're sad, lonely and bitter? I don't see why that is her problem.

    • bang678

      you're basically saying you're mad because you know rape is wrong. How a woman dresses is none of your goddamn business.

    • FidemMeam

      @ShaeNielson It's not her problem, that's exactly what my point is. You can have an opinion about something without forcing it on others.

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  • watcher617x
    if someone thinks a girl or guy should or should not cover up is besides the point in the west

    you do what you want, and you live with the consequences, how is it fair to tell someone not to judge or fall into old stereotypes if you make a choice to walk into the main stream reasons for such judgement? im not saying its right

    if a girl chooses to do what she wants she should understand before hand this is not an ideal world there will be idiots who say what they want about it

    if she's ok with that then great
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