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Men should cover up and start having some self-respect! (Page 2)
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Yep that says it all. On GAG I've seen some pretty terrible stuff about this kind of thing. I once saw a girl say it is 'poetic justice' for a girl to be raped if she was wearing revealing clothes. Not only is that dehumaniIng, it is a complete insult to me implying that their willpower and self-control is overpowered by their sexual urges towards a woman revealing a bit of skin
*de-humanising
I think that girl may have implied that it was "poetic justice" (a bad term, I agree) because she didn't take precoutions, not because it was her duty to cover up. Yes a woman can dress how she likes but there are ways she can dress to minimize risk.
The same way a rich person has the right to go through a dangerous neighborhood flaunting his expensive clothes and trinkets. Doesn't mean he is not stupid for doing so.
I understand what it means and I still am disgusted by the phrase. Theft has all sorts of socioeconomic causes and is not comparable to rape so it's not a great analogy. Rape is about dominance and power over the victim, a completely different scenario. I agree girls should take precaution but poetic justice is too much of a justification for my liking @ThisDudeHere
That, I don't deny.
if someone thinks a girl or guy should or should not cover up is besides the point in the west
you do what you want, and you live with the consequences, how is it fair to tell someone not to judge or fall into old stereotypes if you make a choice to walk into the main stream reasons for such judgement? im not saying its right
if a girl chooses to do what she wants she should understand before hand this is not an ideal world there will be idiots who say what they want about it
if she's ok with that then great
1) There are women that show their body cause they're proud of it, and then there's other women who just want to be seen as sexial objects (yes, some women are like this). Those are the ones without self respect.
2) That excuse is bullshit, a man that loves her woman should feel more than happy to see her naked, even if he's seen her cleavage many times.
3) True, men sexualize women, but women sexualize themselves and let other men sexualize her. If your skirt doesn't cover your whole ass, you're sexualizing yourself, period.
To stop the sexualization of women men have to stop, but women too, don't put all the blame on men.
4) Another stupid reason, as it's proven that rape doesn't happen because of what they wear or even if they're hot, it's about power.
Sexualization will never change, it is literally wired into our brains. It is not a factor of cultural influence, rather a basic biological process used to determine the value of a mate. It's not women's fault, but it is not mens fault either. And no young boys should not be taught anything to accommodate for women, They should experience women and make their own opinions. In all of these gender arguments, one side always suggests the other should change to accommodate for the other. Well guess what, there is one thing you can change and that is you. You can change your behavior and no one else's. bitching about it solves nothing.
Always hate when the blame pushed on to women, it makes men look like animals :o i think men should be taught more
i am a feminist and i agree with all the above i also hate when men use the excuse that women need to cover up and they would not be assaulted. Seriously? i have heard of women being raped wearing sweatpants or in the middle east where they wear burkas. i shall now prepare myself for the inevitable, bitter male fury storm
I rarely hear guys 18-35 criticize women for how they dress. On the other hand I have overheard girls trash talk each other (usually out of jealousy) about how they dress.
I do get pissed off when girls dress provocatively and then blame/shame men who stare an extra minute at their bodies.
You're right. Women who do want to show off their bodies should be accepting of the attention it brings. But I think a lot of girls get upset by other women's clothing choices because they don't have the confidence to (or feel like they can't) wear those clothes themselves?
I absolutely believe that's true. Women will backstab and criticize each other when they feel underconfident/jealous. However guys will be guys and we're not too discreet when it comes to checking girls out. We do get better at when we get older but we still slip up occasionally (I actually slipped up last night on this one). It has to do with our testosterone levels. The vast majority of women have no idea just how powerful the hormone is. I doesn't give us a license to be a creep by any means however women should give men a modest about of leeway when they dress provocatively.
let's be real.
we men are sexual and visually stimulated.
if an attractive girl dresses in a way that shows off her physical assets, men will look at her sexually and admire those breasts or that ass. that's life. dress sexually, you'll be looked at sexually.
There's a difference between admiring that someone is physically attractive and treating them like a sex object.
@bang678
hence why you should dress like you're not a sex object, if that's what you prefer.
@RationalMale how do you dress "like a sex object"? Wear a condom costume? Because they're sex objects... Not sure how you turn a woman into one though...
Kid, it's simple.
If you don't want guys treating you like you're a tramp, don't dress like one.
Or, dress like one and then bitch and moan to everyone that men are so evil.
Girl, tell it. That was the dumbest question I think I've ever seen. Prepare yourself for the inevitable bitter male firestorm.
That was said with craft :)
male firestorm... inevitable
I agree!
We were put on this earth naked. We didn't come with clothes. If you look at tribes (indigenous) people they are naked everything is out except their genitals. The naked body isn't sexualized , the only thing that is sexualized is between their legs. a woman should be able to butt naked and not fear rape, nakedness is our natural state. You dont see owmen raping men who show skin, and trust me the right guy with the right body will turn a woman on.
I agree, finding breasts attractive is actually a fetish created by our society
The problem is that to desexualize the female body, we would have to normalize it. Meaning guys would have to see the female body all the time just like they do in those tribes you mentioned. The moment we tell women they have to cover up, we have just turned their body into sexual objects, otherwise there would be no reason for them to cover up in the first place.
Currently any act of showing the female body is being treated as objectification, slutty, perverted, demeaning to women, or is in some other way seen as immoral. Making the normalizing of the female body almost impossible. So the solution is actually being treated like it is the problem.
Yep. I don't think there's a correlation between your clothing and being raped. The other things you mentioned are pretty spot on.
Where we might part company is the idea that men shouldn't stare at you because of what you wear. Let me ask you, LuckyLittleLucy, is there ANY level of exposed female skin at which you might think "Perhaps you should cover up if you don't want men and women (yes, women stare at other women, too) to stare at you?" Any level at all?
I think if you don't want people to stare, don't put yourself in a position that will invoke that. So you could argue that's at any level. I believe people should dress in a way that makes them feel comfortable- but you must also take into account the attention you will receive. So if the attention makes you uncomfortable, you probably shouldn't wear said items of clothing.
Uh if you haven't noticed, men are already pretty damn covered up. If a man wears shorts that go more than just barely above the knee he must be gay and don't even get me started on if a man dares to wear a speedo to an American beach.
I work outside in the North Carolina heat, trust me when I tell you I am envious of the girl next to me being able to wear shorts that only cover half or less of her thigh, those few inches make a difference.
I understand, but the point is, that girl (from my experience ) will be told that it's "offensive" and they "should cover up". I get that you get (dare I say it) "discriminated against" for wearing short shorts, but so do girls- for different reasons- so surely we should be challenging that for BOTH genders, with BOTH genders?
I don't understand slut-shaming and I never will.
Men: you can't both complain about being under-sexed and then also complain when women are having too much sex for your taste.
I KNOW you think they're having sex with the wrong guys and should marry you instead, but face it: people make their own decisions in that department.
A great take! the idea of "woman should save herself for the right man" has really no value in my opinion (didn't mean to offend women who are saving themselves) because men go fool around with anyone they want and expect his future wife to be "pure". not fair! Freakin' double standards of these socities!
I don't think that double standard exists in most western countries. In western countries that is most often a case of two different groups of men that want something completely different in a woman. In your country that may be more common. Countries that hold more importance on gender roles are always going to have more double standards.
As harsh as it sounded, What you said is true... but i heard from other western countries about the gender bias. don't just take it out on India.
A lot of what you hear about the gender bias in western countries is caused by people not realizing they are dealing with different groups within those genders. Such as there being one group of guys that doesn't have a problem with people sleeping around, and another group of guys that doesn't think either gender should sleep around. After being with several guys in the first group, a woman may find herself rejected by a guy in the second group. Then she complains about what she thinks is a double standard. Both genders have this problem of generalizing each other, instead of realizing they are dealing with different groups.
Don't get me wrong there will always be some sexist people in any country, but currently men and women are more clueless about the fact they are dealing with separate types of men and women that don't all want the same things. Even a lot of the advice on this site is designed assuming there is one type of advice that should apply to all men or all women.
#NiceTake/agreed now for some random rap lyrics #YAY!!!
" Cuz I got little niggas tryna earn stripes
I could write them a check for your life
They might walk up and check you tonight
40 sneeze we gon' bless you tonight"-#LilHerb i1127.photobucket.com/.../ezgif.com-add-text.gif
1. Women gain respect from confidence and being classy, not from covering up
2. Mystery? I don't think it works that way. "Looks attract, but personality keeps"
3. If you think women dont want to be sexualized, you missed the mark
4. True rapist dont rape based on her being the hottest, real rapist have much more completed thought processes for that, and most of the times the girl is not even the hottest girl around
So women should do what they want and men should too
Women are innately sex objects to a far higher degree than men (it's biological due to reproduction ratios, i invite you to do as much research as you want). It's literally the biggest advantage the female gender has.
lol at those who down-vote me, don't be mad at the truth
If we're talking about nature here, what about the fact that naturally it's the males who tend to have to attract the females and flaunt themselves? How it's generally the males who are far more brightly colored in order to attract mates? So logically, if it were only about nature, it would actually be the men who would be far more sexualized and attractive. So don't give me that bullshit excuse. This ain't about nature, it's about society, so don't you fucking dare write it off as just something that can't be changed.
I agree with @cipher42. And also, we are not animals, we have morals and can tell right from wrong. You basically compared yourself to.. Hmm, for example.. A dog?
Wooooaaahhhh now, @cipher 42 - Don't you be gettin' all logical and sciency up in here. That's no fair! lol
In mammals this is the case (look at seals) 1% of men can knock up all women, so 99% of men are superfluous reproductively, but genes (offspring) still need to be nurtured, so skill sets and resources are more important as a valuable male trait, Since sperm is useful everyday and men can lay many seeds in a short time, the physical (good hip to thigh ratio, decent breasts, good fertility markers) is all that is needed for a man to want to reproduce, men don't carry much risk from reproduction. @cipher42 @Sara413 @DisastrousQu33n
If we didn't follow the monogamous model only a few men would be desirable, most men wouldn't reproduce (like seals, most female seals are attractive to all males, while the women only go for the alpha's, strength vs sexual prowess).
Out running today, 90°+ Fahrenheit. Not wearing a shirt, and yes as far as I am concerned girls should be able to run topples as well, I was told not once but three times to "put a shirt on". For the record nipples bleed from cloth rubbing on it.
you whore
Such language, I think I might be shocked.
It isn't surprising. The more often a member of either gender covers up in their daily lives, the more upset people get on the rare occasions they see them uncovered. When men did more manual labor guys took their shirts off all the time and it was no big deal. Now that guys are wearing long sleeves and ties to work more often people are starting to have an issue with guys being shirtless. They just aren't use to it so it bothers them. It is similar to how countries where women can run around naked, and no one cares, but in the countries were women are expected to completely cover up, people are outraged when a woman shows a little bit of skin.
Men and women think differently, though.
And woman-on-man rape isn't even legally classified as being rape in many countries. So, it's pretty ironic that you would even raise that.
But in many countries it IS defined as rape. And guess who fought for that legal inclusion? Hint: it starts with an "F" and ends with "eminists".
@Sara413 No. You are just wrong. In fact, in my country (the United Kingdom), when rape legislation was last changed (2003), it was the feminists in government who steered the bill through Parliament and who ensured that woman-on-man rape would not be included in the definition of rape. As I mentioned in a different comment to you, a man who gropes a woman's bottom and a woman who rapes a man face the same legal charge and indeed the former could well get a tougher sentence than the latter!
@evenlift you're facts are right but rape is classed as "penile penetration", therefore it is physically, literally impossible for a biological female to commit that crime.
This take is out of date. There will always be a few guys who say "you shouldn't dress like that" because there will always be mean people in the world. The majority thinks otherwise, though, or haven't you read the answers of guys around here? Make the question yourself, find out, and get over it.