or is there some other quality that makes a male a "real man?"
There is no simple answer to this question. Are we talking about what women think of as a "real man" or what men accept as the real deal?
Let's look at the women's perspective. Realize that I am a man and I will never know how women see things. All I can tell you is my perception of how women view the universe. Here is what I think it takes to make a man "manly" in the eyes of a woman.
1. A "masculine" physique. For some women, masculine physique means a muscle bound neanderthal, a man who is more animal than cerebral. For some women, a masculine man has hair on his chest. For others, facial hair makes a guy look like a man. Every women has her standards of what looks masculine.
2. The ability to protect a woman. Some women want to feel that their man will always be able to protect them, so they want a guy who looks like he will win a fight if that is what happens. I would guess that the importance of this factor depends on whether fights are likely in your environment. Women who value this are being a bit dishonest with themselves, because a bruiser of a guy is no match for a punk with a .38 and a beanpole boyfriend with a .38 can bring a thug to his knees. Still . . . there is nothing logical about romance whatsoever, so let's not get too wrapped up in the illogical nature of this standard.
3. The ability to provide. Too often, women look at a guy and focus on his earning capacity. I do think that is one of many valid considerations for a woman in evaluating a man, because women like to consider the possibility of having babies and staying at home with them. This certainly requires a guy with at least a minimal amount of earning potential. However, it does not require a guy who can bring home $250,000 per year.
4. Sexual satisfaction. In "the old days" (which means anytime before I was born,) having sex was something that a woman did to please her man; it was her duty! The possibility of enjoying sex was an idea that a proper woman would not entertain. Like I said, that was in the old days. In the 21st century, women want sexual satisfaction. For some women, that may mean that a guy must have at least a 7" penis. Most women do not have such requirements and, in fact, some women would be scared of having sex with a guy who is hung like a horse. For most women, sexual fulfillment does not come from having a man force his way into her vagina and pound her into a state of orgasmic bliss. Sexual satisfaction comes from having a lover who is attentive to her needs, who makes her orgasm as important as his orgasm, and who will listen when she tells him what will make her fall off the cliff and into the abyss of sexual delight. However, it doesn't matter how good a lover is if he looks like Peewee Herman. Attractiveness is a must, but what constitutes "attractive" varies between women.
5. Civility and manners. Women don't expect every guy to know the Code of the Knights Templar or to be versed in the rules of chivalry that predominated in the antebellum period, but most women do have some minimum expectations of manly behavior. They do not want a man who is arrogant, boisterous, deceitful or generally disrespectful to others.
6. Manly pursuits. Some women specifically want a guy who rides a motorcycle because that is a "manly" pursuit. Some women like men who are hunters. Some women are happy that their man is a sports fan and spends time with other guys watching games (these same women won't admit that this makes them happy, but if their guy was getting with some other guys to work on crochet techniques, she'd be filing for divorce.) Some women don't care about the manly pursuits as long as the guy doesn't spend time on "feminine" pursuits (like sewing, baking, home decorating, etc.)
7. Character. While character is an important factor for most women when evaluating a man as a prospect for a long term relationship, sadly, I don't think it enters into the evaluation of whether a guy is "manly."
Among high IQ women (and most of my experience has been with high IQ women,) physique, ability to protect a woman, and manly pursuits have minimal importance, while the ability to provide is equally important, civility and sexual satisfaction are even more important, and character becomes an important consideration. Of course, above average intelligence is another factor that high IQ women look for in a "manly" man.
So, what can be said for the typical "manly" man? Nothing, because he does not exist. What my mother considers to be a manly man would be considered an ignorant oaf by most of the women I have dated. Who is right - my mother or my girlfriends? Neither one is right. What constitutes manly is purely a subjective matter of preferences and what is manly to my current girlfriend would be of no interest to my mother and many other women.
What makes a man a "manly man in the eyes of other males? Unfortunately, I think most of my brethren are very shallow in this regard. A manly physique and manly pursuits makes a man, though most guys would feel awkward admitting that their evaluation of other guys was so shallow.
There is one other aspect that is important to some men, and to some women, and that is the element of character which I briefly mentioned earlier. A man gets a girl pregnant and packs up and leaves because he is a "free bird" who can't be trapped. Does that make him manly? No, he is not a free bird, he is just a chicken. A man is someone who recognizes his obligations and stands and faces them even when there is an available means of escape. After 61 years of living (birthday tomorrow,) that is what I think constitutes the essence of a real man.
I don't really judge a "real man" by his looks. Sure, I do have a type, just like everyone else, but when I get to judge a personality or the manliness of a man, his behaviour is what comes first. A real man is for me someone independent. He doesn't depend on anything or anyone, and he doesn't let anyone tell him what to do. He knows what he wants and gets it. He is confident and mature. He doesn't take shit from anyone but doesn't act like a caveman. He knows when to pounce and when not to pounce. The only time he would actually pounce is when he's in real danger. A real man respects women. He loves sex, yes, but isn't a famished asshole with one purpose and one purpose only. He takes control. He knows what to do. A real man is not a kid who doesn't take his future seriously. A real man wants a good future and a family eventually. He wants success (he doesn't have to be rich) and wants to be able to reach it by himself.
You are very spot on with most of these points. However there is another issues that many young men struggle with nowadays; women want a man who can stand his ground. Our generation has been so warped and whipped by oppressive feminism that many young men have become doormats in relationships because they weren't taught any better. Ironically this leaves women frustrated because this is NOT what their biology/DNA dictates.
Objectively, to be a "real man", you have to have XY chromosomes and functional genitals which consists of testicles and the penis.
Other than that, I guess you could count determination and the willingness to be assertive, but to be honest, that's not a sex-specific trait either, that's a plus regardless of physical sex.
Thus the answer could lie in the female's perception of the male. If the male displays a high QUALITY (not amount) of competitiveness/dominance and capacity to protect a mate ensuring her future well-being in emergencies, the female would theoretically experience instinctual attraction to the male according to her genetic programming.
I do not believe this to be the whole story though. A male's attitude toward a female plays the biggest role in my opinion.
The world offers conflicting views of what being a man is all about. Some say that being a man requires grit, square-jawed determination, a working knowledge of weaponry, and, preferably, rock-solid abs. Others say that manliness is about getting in touch with one’s feelings, caring for the less fortunate, and being sensitive. Still others would include leadership skills, a good work ethic, physical stature, riches, or sexual prowess. Can these things truly define masculinity, or is there another standard?
To know what a true man is, you need look no further than the life of Jesus Christ. As the Son of Man, Jesus is the epitome of manhood, the perfect example of what true maturity looks like. Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit and lived in complete dependence on and obedience to the will of God. Christ fully displayed the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). A true man of God will show evidence of these works of the Spirit as well.
A true man, like Jesus, is obedient to the Father’s will and is about His Father’s business (Hebrews 10:9). Like Christ, the godly man will shun sin and follow after righteousness. He will, in the power of the Spirit, seek to keep God’s law and live in God’s will. He will evince a determination to accomplish God’s will, whatever the cost (Isaiah 50:7). He will endure opposition and never lose heart (Hebrews 12:3). He will be a man of the Word, using Scripture to overcome temptation (Matthew 4:1-10). He will be a man of prayer (Mark 1:35). He will be a man of love and sacrifice (John 13:1).
“Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong. Do everything in love” (1 Corinthians 16:13-14). According to these verses, a true man is vigilant against danger, faithful to the truth, brave in the face of opposition, persistent through trials, and, above all, loving.
The Bible’s qualifications for elders and deacons also contain a good description of a godly man: “Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well. . . . He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap” (1Timothy 3:2-4, 7).
“Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
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Opinion Owner
+1 y
They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience” (1 Timothy 3:8-9).
A true man is someone who has “put away childish things” (1 Corinthians 13:11, NLT). A true man knows what is right and stands firm in the right. A true man is a godly man. He loves the Lord, he loves life, and he loves those whom the Lord has entrusted to his care.
GTFOH wit yo religious bullshit, man. We not here to be fuckin preached to about your fuckin god, wjo doesn't do shit anyway but sit on his ass and watch 3000+ people die. Take your jesus/god and shove it up your ass!
@trellbrown23 im under 18 and your 31... lol shouldn't you be at your job and or taking care of your family? its sad to see someone as old as you swearing at a kid over the internet
Taking care of a family? I don't even have that, let alone kids..
I don't care if he's a kid or not, WE ARE NOT HERE TO BE PREACHED TO ABOUT THE LORD! Leave that shit at the church where it belongs. There are otger ways to explain things WITHOUT bringing religious bullcrap into the equation. Its irritating hoe these religious nuts ruin everything...
@trellbrown23 So you have the right to express whatever opinions and beliefs you have but he does not? Because your opinions and beliefs make more sense. . . according to you? Your profile says you live in the US; Does "free speech" mean people have the right to say whatever they want as long as you agree with them?
i find people now a days say " oh yea im accepting and im a good guy" but they really mean " im accepting to everyone that dosent have a religion" just because you dont fall into the category of man i listed does not mean you should be mad it means you should become a man :)
It's in the head being a man. Real men don't pump iron and stare in mirrors. Big fairys do that. There's no such thing as a real man any more. Cunts are too fascinated with shit. My father was a man and a half. Never had debt, worked all his days until he was too sick. Never left our sides. Never let anybody fuck with him. Told you straight to your face if he didn't like you. If you took a liberty with him he'd break your jaw. It's all about character and principles. I've known little guys who were barely pushing 5' 7" and weighed 10 stone who I was in awe of. Nobody fucked with them. They had a quiet, confident way about them you couldn't help respecting. They could fight like 10 men as well. A wee guy I knew who was well respected in his area. Him and his brothers grew up in a very hard area and they were all seriously hard men. They ended up in a big gang and as they got older everybody looked up to them. They were legends on the streets. Had shoot ups in pubs. Fought other big gangs. They tried to kill him one night as he was walking home from the pub. Five guys with machetes attacked him at the train station bridge. He knocked 3 of them out and the other two bolted. There wasn't a mark on him. He never told the story. People watching from their houses seen it and talked about it. They didn't know who it was. Not all of them but as the story got about we realised who it was. When we questioned him about it over a drink he just shrugged and said a couple of daft boys had attacked him and they got the worst of it. Pure humbleness. He was even a bit embarassed by it. What a man.
"So, what can be said for the typical "manly" man? Nothing, because he does not exist."
A manly man is a man who acts like a stereotypical man. He does exist to most people. This man isn't considered manly by most people (though I'm sure some might try to twist it in some way to say that he is because he has male genetalia):
"What makes a man a "manly man in the eyes of other males? Unfortunately, I think most of my brethren are very shallow in this regard. A manly physique and manly pursuits makes a man, though most guys would feel awkward admitting that their evaluation of other guys was so shallow."
I'm not afraid to admit it. That is what makes a man manly, following typically manly pursuits and having a manly physique. Some men aren't manly, doesn't bother me. I probably won't be interested in hanging around with them but they can do what they want, none of my business. They just aren't manly.
This was an excellent 'My Take'. All of the things you mentioned are important, in varying degrees. I would say physique is probably last on the list, as one of the most amazing men I know is in a wheelchair and has limited ability to develop his physique--but it does matter, to an extent. In thinking about what qualities the men I admire most all share, I would say heart, selflessness and hard work. A lot of that is summed up in character. The one thing that probably impresses me the most is knowledge. Whatever you do, do it well, and be educated about it. Also, branch out! Learn new things. And... being a good kisser doesn't hurt. :) Oh... and happy birthday! I hope your year is fantastic!
To me at least, there are 2 essentials, and neither of them is listed here.
The first is "Word is bond." A real man keeps his word. He has honor. Code. What that code stands for, is up to the individual man. But he has to stand for something, and stand for it he must.
The second is never losing control. A man can have passion, anger, fury, heartbreak, exuberance... but he mantains control over these things. He directs them and channels them. He might use them for the greater good, or he might just use them for his own good. But he does NOT lose control.
I think that a lot of people put too much stock into the "hypermasculine" culture which does nothing but create emotionally stunted and angry men.
Honestly, all of the things you listed as being the female definition of masculinity made me want to vomit. I'm not sure if it's because you're American but the whole "protectiveness" thing would scare the shit out of me. I don't want to be anywhere near anyone that carries a weapon. In fact, I don't ever want to go to the US for that very reason (though that's besides the point).
For me, a real man is someone who takes responsibility. If they make a mistake, they admit it, apologize and try to make it better. That's just straight up being a grown up, in my opinion.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
I think what it ultimately comes down to for me, is him being responsible, self-assured, and self-sacrificing when it matters, like for a loved one (wife, children.) Being of high moral character, doing the right thing and protecting those who can't protect themselves.
Physically, being fit and in shape is manly, as are certain characteristics, but not necessary in my opinion to "be a man". But of course I'm not one of those that thinks its okay to go around telling guys they're not real men because they don't fit a certain mold. The only time I've ever said anything like that is to my brother when he acted like a big shot who would be the 'big protector" but really he was a big ass pussy that hit girls and threw fits.
@Dingsbums What are the benefits of such work and sacrifice? I can obtain emotional and physical intimacy without needing to sacrifice and work hard and protect other people. In fact, I am significantly less likely to die in that case. Nit to mention my comfort level. That's why all the good people die young. They're idiots. I'm not partial to being a sacrificial pawn. I don't know what kind of sacrifice she's talking about, but all I can think about is my dad working 60-80 hour weeks to put food on the table for ungrateful children and a bitch of a wife who never thought he did enough. No matter what he sacrificed, it was never enough. My dad has all of those traits, and if you ask me, they're nothing but a pain. And he was never respected for any of it. My mom was a housewife, and my dad did all the housework along with all the working. Sacrifice. Noble idea, but all it gets you is pain. If not dead. Seems not worth it, to me.
There are always limits. You need to find a balance and self-sacrificing doesn't mean that you should let others use you or that you always have to make a sacrifice. @Rawrzz
@Rawrzz At what age do you believe all "the good ones" are gone? I ask because I know many fine people who are in their teens and 20's, and I know many fine people who are in their 30's, 40's, 50's. 60's, and 70's. If what you are saying is correct, I have seriously misjudged many people.
Yes. I really just needed to make sorry excuses to convince you I didn't have to be your idea of "the best adult you can be."
Themselves. Goodness is not compatible with the world. Goodness is a force that kills the good people. The good people die, because the good people have always died, because they're killed by not good people. Jesus. MLKJ. Kennedy. Gandhi. The list goes on.
The obligation doesn't seem to be worth the reward. That's all I'm saying.
@OlderAndWiser I should say survival of the worst in the sense of success of the worst. If a person was good, they would sacrifice themselves for other people. Meaning they would die or give everything away. They get dead or used. There are no "good" people. Just people who don't understand how they are bad.
People convince themselves that they are good people. If they're not obviously evil, then they say "I am a good person." More than that, even if they are obviously evil, they justify it. Hitler believed he was doing a just thing. All do.
Yet, ignoring someone being murdered in front of you is just as evil as murdering someone. Ignoring people being murdered 1,000 miles away is the same thing. If there were so many "good" people, the world would not be in its current state. The only argument against that is "well, there are more evil people/evil people are more powerful." In other words, survival/thriving of the worst.
These so-called good people you know. It's relative goodness.
Great Take, however, for the millionth time there is no trade-off between developing your body (muscularity) and developing your brain (intelligence). There is no animal-cerebral trade-off like you stated. Self-mastery in physicality and mentality are not mutually exclusive, they just require someone with acute determination to seek self-improvement in more than one area.
Here's what I have noticed: the types that train excessively tend to be the biggest assholes. Is it because they spend so much time indulging their vanity or is it because they have conditions for loving themselves? Perhaps we'll never know.
@9mfeo I don't know, but I think it's safe to say there is too much variety of personalities in the fitness world to apply holistic stereotypes and generalizations. in my opinion =]
Personally, What makes a man to be me is their inner world. How balanced, emotionally aware they are, how they blend their logic sides to their emotions. Having their own initiative and prerogative, confident in their abilities, and secure with their emotional/sensitive side. Resiliency, discipline, and calamity.
A real man who will look out and protect his woman and his family and a real man will provide the best he can for his family-regardless of his income rich or poor as long as a hot meal is on the table
If a man can't do those 2 main things then he isn't a real man...
Real men don't need to be strong or have a large penis.. nor do they need to be rich a real man is one that steps up to the plate and takes cares of the people he loves most...
I'm sick of seeing posts saying a real man wears skinny jeans and opens doors for women.
No because skinny jeans are fucking weird and uncomfortable and opening the door for a member of the fairer sex can end up in a slap with all the feminism today
I never had a dad growing up.. he thought himself a hard man going with different women didn't provide for me or my sisters my mum had to get food from churches etc and walk to my grandad with our clothes to get washed because we couldn't afford a washing machine, thanks to my dad ( is that actions of a real man). my stepdad stepped up to the plate took on kids that wasn't his.. that's a real man.. one that will look out for us and care for us no matter what... that's all a real woman will want or need trust me... the girls that chase the strong rich tyoes etc will enventually get burned and the winners are the men who were always real... sit tight and reap what you deserve never feel inferior to those not worthy of your time c
Can't say I disagree with this. You pointed out all the things people look towards in terms of what a "real man" is. Some value some of those things more than others and some don't value any of them at all.
I believe what makes a man is the same thing that makes a person and that's standing firm in what you believe in and being who you really are. The only reason why I don't like with a guy gets a woman pregnant and then leaves is because I guarantee he didn't tell her he was going to do that until she got pregnant or until she had the child. That makes him a liar and coward. That part. He's not being himself.
The same could be said for either gender though. What makes a real woman? Same thing. One who stands firm in what she believes in and who is honest with herself and others as to who she is.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
According to women being a man is "asking a girl out". It doesn't matter if he is hot, ripped, the nicest guy alive, loyal, smart, or any of that. If he doesn't ask a girl out then he is nothing (in the eyes of women). Thats what being a real man is they say, the place more emphasis on him asking then anything else, that seems like a lopsided point of view to me but I suppose they can pick what they want.
Women who say that seem to be stuck on "what does he do for me?" That doesn't sound like the kind of woman I would want to date, but I have no problem with asking a lady for a date.
"This loosely drawn together list of duties does not begin to describe the challenges and difficulties of being a modern man." That was not the object of the post.
Number 2 makes sense on a biological sense, that is like saying you liking tits and butt is illogical because now they can be fake and men can buy them too for $100,000 or more I. e Caitlyn. Therefore it representing fertility In 2016 is void. To me a "real man"has xy chromosomes and a penis. now, the type of qualities I seek in a man doesn't make someone " less manly " if they dont meet them.
You would think that would be the case, however. Our instincts are 20,000 years old. They don't realize that breasts are fake. On the same note, some women might not notice instinctually that we control the world and it's significantly less dangerous to humans than it was 20,000 years ago. It might be illogical, but instincts aren't that logical. They sorta are, but they're not up to date. If it's worked for 20,000 years, chances are it will work for 20,100 years.
Personally, I think it depends on how safe the woman's environment was when she was growing up. The more dangerous the environment, the more they're going to look for a strong man who can protect them.
Well said. Gender roles are not necessary for a person to be attracted to a like-minded individual and grow to love and care for them. Like religion, sports fighting, and fruitcake, societally forced gender roles are another archaic disgust that would fall to the wayside in an intelligent and compassionate world.
It's not like he's being unfair. This is just a more relevant topic, there is a lot more pressure on guys to live up to manly standards than there is for women to be feminine. Have you ever heard someone say, 'woman up?'.
That's the only criteria. I couldn't care less if a guy is "protective" or "provides" or not, what kind of person, male or female, cannot protect and take care of themselves in this day and age?
@tony72722 speak for yourself, please. Not all women have identical preferences.
I have been in multiple relationships so far, I've never had the "need" for a provider and protector. Often, I end up being the "protector" myself. And I'm okay with that.
Perhaps you should look beyond just the 1950's traditional gender roles?
@tony72722 (she's like 6'2" and works in IT as a developer in a first-world country, she doesn't need a provider nor a protector to be honest)
Women only look for a provider or protector if they need it, and don't have enough self-respect to want to provide these two qualities for themselves on their own without having to rely on someone else for it.
I am not hung up about what constitutes a man but I encounter these attitudes, particularly in my family in which all the men hunt and drive pickup trucks. Typically, I try to challenge traditional notions of what constitutes a "man."
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