I always see videos on YouTube ( mgtow and incels Chanels) claiming how women hit the wall at 30, sometimes even 25. I actually find that to be ridiculous as an 19 years old. Ofc a 20 years old “attractive”girl will attract more men than an attractive 30 yo women, but so is the case of an attractive 20 years old guy ( that they call a chad) who will have a bigger dating pool than a 30 years old man. They talk as if women over 30 are doomed to be single forever, or that no handsome man will want her, and they imagine themselves that unlike the women, the only struggle they will have at 30 will be to choose which kind of 20 yo supermodel they will fuck. My brother, who’s considered as a chad and who’s 24 told me that it’s just a revenge fantasy, made by loosers to make themselves feel better about the hot young women that rejected them. Is it truly because of that, that they preach this kind of crap? Tbh even a lot of men in real life keep telling me that these folks are joking and fantasying. The woman on the pic is 33 and I consider her to be better looking than most girls my age, so when I hear these pick up artists on YouTube I get really confused
Are women hitting the wall a revenge fantasy made by incels?
It’s more like cherry picking than a flat out fantasy. I’ve seen tons of women that were hot when I knew them in my teens and early 20s that really went down hill hard. A lot of the women that were out late at night drinking, smoking, clubbing, sun tanning, not sleeping, etc. really lost it as they approached their 30s. Then you have women that got married, had kids, got divorced and now have a mom bod, an ex husband, kids, etc. Your life choices do impact how your body ages and how your looks are impacted. There are also plenty of hot women in their 30s as well, that have a good head on their shoulders, that got more emotionally stable as they aged, they have their life together, etc. That entire wall thing from what I’ve seen seems to focus on the party girls though… So there is a little truth to it. They’re focusing on the negative not the big picture.
As far as guys in their 30s… If they are good looking and have a little game they still bag a lot of young hot women at that age. A lot of young women don’t like guys their own age for various reasons and date guys a little older than them anyway, and if you just want to fool around it makes it a little easier… Very young women tend to say things like you’re old Mr. to tease you, but if you laugh and say I’m not dead yet or something like that and/or exaggerate it like yeah I left my walker in the car can you walk me to the door, they tend to take it as a sign that the age difference is OK… If I’m OK with it and she’s OK with it, then that’s all that matters tonight. For a serious relationship too much of an age gap is going to make them uncomfortable because they don’t want to be judged by friends, family, society, etc. but causal flings are no big deal. If the guys are not good looking, then I guess they have to play other angles and sadly there are gold diggers out there that look for men that are financially established that they can latch onto. So even some of the ugly guys find a way I guess, although not a very bright approach to the situation.
Is it a revenge fantasy? I don’t know. It just seems like they are chastising the party girl lifestyle while ignoring the women that really develop well in their 30s...
0
2 Reply
Asker
+1 y
I agree. But age is no ones friend especially when you don’t take care of yourself in your 20’s.
Tbh I also know a lot of attractive 40 years old women who get asked out by younger men, in their 20’s, and it’s often for something more than casual sex. My aunt was a widow at 35, with a son, and she remarried at the age of 41 with a 31 years old hot guy. She’s not his sugar mama cause he makes even more money than her, but she’s very attractive for her age, toned body, and she have no wrinkle thanks to healthy died, work out, and yoga.
she told me to never tan and to limit my self to the sun exposure, and to gain good habits as soon as I can and I will be rewarded, so the fact that she look 27 at 40, and managed to get a handsome successful man who’s younger than her is probably a real example of a healthy lifestyle.
Men also can age terribly if they don’t take care of themselves, cause just like women their metabolism slow down.
I just don’t get how these incels talk as if ALL MEN age like wine and ALL women like milk, While it’s untrue.
Ofc i even know cases of women who became ugly at 26 because of their unhealthy lifestyle ( like Lindsay Lohan) , but it’s the same case for men ( like Macaulay Culkin)
It's not a revenge fantasy, as it is more true than not, but not entirely so. Sure, incels are angry at women (it's painful to be rejected, especially again and again and again, as it's essentially someone saying they don't deserve to reproduce, or even get affection), and their ultimate revenge would be for the very girls who rejected them when they were young 18-24 to be rejected in turn (at an arbitrary age of 30+) because they wasted their 20's banging the neighborhood, then woke up one day to find they were no longer even able to get a mediocre guy interested (in anything more than a quick bang). Do women start declining in attractiveness as they get older? Yes. Do men get more attractive as they age, according to multiple studies? Yes. The reason is that a younger woman has what guys (all guys) want, and an older, more mature/ established (not saying this about old losers) man has what women want. Thus, there is a very real reversal of perceived partner value for men and women as they age. However, the "romanticized" image of a girl who was gorgeous at 21 turning to pig waste at 30 isn't realistic; there is a slow decline, and during this time many will get settled down. However, let's be real, the 30 year old girl in your pic is the exception to the rule, scroll on tinder for an hour on women 18-26, then 26-31 and tell me that only the RARE exception older girl can compete with the younger. Still, it is an appealing concept, backed up by some truth.
0
5 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Tbh anyone can age miserably with a bad diet and bad choices.
A man who spent his twenties eating shit and never working out, will have his attractiveness decreasing as much as a woman, with the same unhealthy lifestyle.
If he’s financially successful then the only 20 years old girls that he will attract, will often turn out to be gold diggers who will cheat on him with a hot younger guy, while leeching him off his money. Ofc there are some exceptions to the rule, but a man’s attractiveness can be maintained as much as a woman. And I noticed that the 30+ successful handsome men, usually settle down with women with a closer age gap. I know a lot of successful men and I can assure you that NO ONE of them married a woman with an age gap bigger than 5 years. (The only exception I know is a guy who married a woman who’s 10 years older than him) They either dated these girls when they were young, since they were always attractive, or it’s simply because they didn’t became successful by thinking primarily and only with their penis, so they wanted a woman to share something more than a bed, not just a child’s bride.
Even brad Pitt and George Clooney aren’t that delusional to thinking that a 20 years old will 100% love for themselves since they settled down for women who were over 30 when they meet them. It was said that when brad Pitt was 29 he was rejected by a 20 years old girl in a bar when he asked her out, cause he wasn’t famous at this time. So he probably understood very soon, that he didn’t aged like wine cause this girl wouldn’t reject him if he was just 2-3 years older than her. Remember that he wasn’t rich and famous at this time, and despite being fine looking, he couldn’t get a hot 20 years old girl to date him, since he had no fame and no money.
To you first point, that's true, but guys put far more emphasis on a girls appearance, than a girl puts to a guys appearance. Let's move beside all the research that proves this (and it does), to examine anecdote: we've all seen hot girls with mediocre looking guys, but how many times have you seen a really attractive guy with a fat/ ugly girl? It's rare af, unless she let herself go after having his kid. I don't agree to the false dichotomy you've posed (if she likes a financially stable guy she only likes him for his money, blah blah). Women generally prize a good provider over good looks, and few would risk cheating just to get with a more attractive guy; I can't say the same for most guys. You're taking a lot of assumption from one alleged interaction Brad Pitt had at 29, strangely the same year he had his first staring role in a River Runs through (1992) (Legends of the Fall being in 1994); so, he would have been a movie star at the time. EVEN if the story you said is true, which I don't think it is (perhaps a story he made up afterward, as I can't find it on google), you drew a completely contradictory conclusion to your premise (i. e. hot guys get the girl regardless, well-off guys only get girls interested in money, paraphrase) by claiming that even as a hot younger guy he got rejected... Or are you assuming he got rejected because he wasn't 20... but why was there a 20 year old girl in a bar? Your story and logic just isn't fitting together; am I missing something?
I read this article on a magazine and it says that it was in a bar in Ireland, when he was 29 and he wasn’t famous, I didn’t say he didn’t started acting, but he was what you can call a D-list actor.
You know... those kind of actors that pass on Christmas movies, and that you never retain the name. He told this Irish 20 years old girl, that he’s the guy who played on a Levi ad, and the guy from Thelma and Louise, but she still turned him down. She either didn’t believed him, or she thought that he was a retired old model, cause everyone know that most male models don’t gain shit, even if they play a few roles in movies, so she never guessed that he will grow to be one of the biggest actors of the world. Ofc if he was like her in his early twenties she would consider a relationship with him, but since he was going on his thirties she probably viewed him as a looser who failed in the media industry. Women are more likely to forgive a man’s lack of money when he’s young, and they’re attracted to him, but an attractive 30 years old dude with an average salary, won’t have a chance with a young hot babe, especially for a relationship.
It’s not an exact science but mostly that’s how it happen.
No matter how much you carry yourself when you get old, the ressources are the only tool that will attract a younger girls. It’s just funny how these old men believe that it’s their personality and their providing aura that made them attractive, while it’s nothing else but their wallet
And even if they gained their money with age, they must know that their age didn’t made them attractive, cause their young wives, would trade them for an equally rich younger man in a heartbeat if given the chance
A River Runs Through It wasn't a small movie, and it's noted that it established his career, but anyway... And how the hell are you pretending to know why this girl rejected him? It's all unknown, and you're just plastering your opinion in a place where there is no proof that it was the case. She rejected him, fair enough, but neither of us know why (she could have been gay, etc.). Your response is starting to turn into a unintelligible rant, you're not making any sense and contradicting yourself again (on top of "channeling" this young 20 yo Irish girl to know her intent); so, i'm done responding.
That sounds about right. Kinda hard to take them seriously. I for one just keep getting better. And there's this one woman I see sometimes when I'm out running who's gotta be in her early to mid 40s and is still kicking ass.
What you're saying is that going women are low quality and aging ones have somehow turned from low quality to high quality by... Having sex with as many men as they can?
Smart women are high quality, no matter their age. Dumb women are lower quality, and they are the only one screwing around with dudes who are preoccupied with getting “young pussy” and tossing out the older one.
"I consider her to be better looking than most girls my age" Okay but she's 33. Doesn't matter if she looks better to some... she's still 33, *that's* the problem. I might have a fling with her given the chance, but I'm not going to start a serious relationship with a 33yo. Also, being better looking than most doesn't mean she's going to be desirable. It's like "here's the least worn out tire in the whole dump, it'll be great for you care, trust me." "No thanks, I'd rather buy new."
Say I meet a girl tomorrow, we spend a year getting to know each other, we decide to get married, another year passes, we're married have settled in together and are preparing for kids. 3 Years after meeting, our first kid is born, and leave a two year gap between each kid. Now say I want 3 kids -- that puts her at ~36 for our first and add another two years for each kid. That's old as fuck. And then later she's ~50yo around the time she's raising a teen. You'll probably want to be 35-40 for that.
You're at risk of all sorts of complications that start to become more likely around 30-35. My mum had me at 33 and my sister at 36 and she was like "wtf was I thinking". My sister has a nursing degree and knows well the risks of having kids past that age. We all seem to understand that there's risks at that time, so no 33 is not attractive in *that* way.
So in terms of merit as a life partner, not great. In terms of personality comparability, older women and younger men ain't a great fit, the reverse is more reasonable. In terms of just body, even though it would be preferable if she had all the youthful traits and features that make a girl attractive, she's still far from unattractive as she is.
In summary, I'd pork her, that's all.
0
6 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Tbh no woman would want to settle down with a dude who will see her as nothing else but a baby making machine. My aunt was 41 when se married a successful man who was 31, so I don’t think that she was less attractive than a younger woman, since he could’ve get an 22 years old easily with his money.
Also this thing about kids is weird. Most men Don’t want kids, and you spend your whole life actively avoiding to imprégnante someone, check your girlfriends menstruations to make sure that she’s not fertile, freak out when you came inside and she didn’t took the pill, and sometimes beg her to have an abortion when she get pregnant, and yet have the nerve to use kids as an excuse for degrading older women 🤦♀️
And you should also know that scientific studies showed that men’s sperm quality decrease at the age of 35. there is fairly convincing epidemiological evidence that older men do find it harder to conceive a child , regardless of female age, and as men get older their partners are at increased risk of miscarriage.
And I validate that as a med student
So in the context of this métaphore even an older man isn’t a catch to start a family, if we should all value fertility as the most attractive trait
"Tbh no woman would want to settle down with a dude who will see her as nothing else but a baby making machine." Well I don't see them that way, so it's tangential to the point.
"My aunt was 41 when se married a successful man who was 31, so I don’t think that she was less attractive than a younger woman, since he could’ve get an 22 years old easily with his money. " There are exceptions. It doesn't mean the rest of reality doesn't exist.
"Most men Don’t want kids" Wow, okay. So you're just going to speak on by behalf about what I want? Get real. You've got nonsense stuck in your head. Men *and women* avoid unwanted pregnancies, but there is still such a thing as a wanted pregnancy with the right person when time is right. Ask a guy what he wants before you talk about what guys want.
"yet have the nerve to use kids as an excuse for degrading older women" Yes. Getting old comes with medical issue. Lodge your complaints with nature.
"And you should also know that scientific studies showed that men’s sperm quality decrease at the age of 35" So? It doesn't matter. It doesn't change anything, reality still applies. You're just trying to take a swing at men for no reason.
Fertility isn't the only trait, but it's important. Most people want to start a family and if you tell someone you're infertile many people will end it there. So indicators that suggest weakened fertility or quality, while not a always a deal-breaker, it can still apply pressure.
Women also seem to appreciate older guys more than guys appreciate older women and perhaps they care about other things that guy has as well that makes him more appealing. So even if I accept your assertion that men's fertility goes down with women's, then it's still the case that women generally seem to find older guys more palatable than men find older women. So I don't know what to tell you, people like what they like and complaining about preferences, nature and desires isn't going to help.
When a woman says she’s attracted older men she mean, that she like this:
Not this:
But in real life, most older men are like this:
The same goes for younger men. When they say they are attracted to older women they mean this:
Not this:
Get it? Most men and women don’t age like wine. Cause unlike the Hollywood peoples, your average person don’t have the genes and ressources to remain attractive all his life. It’s just crazy that most men consider themselves to age like George Clooney.
"... but so is the case of an attractive 20 years old guy ( that they call a chad) who will have a bigger dating pool than a 30 years old man."
Not the case at all. I did pretty well when i was younger and had lots of girlfriends and hookups. Now I'm 32 and i can literally do nothing and girls like 18 or so will chase me and come after me. So you're definitely very wrong.
"The woman on the pic is 33 and I consider her to be better looking than most girls my age..."
Its nothing to do with looks although personally i prefer youthful looks ie this girl was hotter at 18 than 33 assuming she wasn't fat. But its about relationships. Older women are 100% worthless for relationships and that's the issue. Has nothing to do with if men will fuck them. Any man who is attractive enough to have options will almost always choose the youngest option.
Less prior sex partners More fertility Looks will last longer. They haven't built a whole life without you yet. Usually young women have no debt and many older ones do. Younger girls are usually sweeter. Younger usually is more respectful and appreciative of men.
So many many reasons why young is better for a relationship and old is not.
Its a chances game. Because now more then ever, hitting on women has turned into a dangerous game. Men are more reserved in our "game". Hints why people say chivalry is dying, because it is.
With a 20 year old girl, the odds of her still being on the prowl for a mate, is higher than that of an older woman who has found herself and likely, a soul mate. Even though that is not true. The same goes for men too. The older you get, the less likely you are to still be searching for a partner.
I'm 21. If I saw a 2 girls at a bar, and one was 20 and the other 30, I would naturally gravitate towards the 20 year old simply because my chances are higher. Even though the 30 year old was totally available and totally hot. The thing is... Guys can never be sure if a girl is available. So what is the key for ladies of age?
Be sure to put yourselves out there. Try your best to dispell a guys shyness. I know it is a lot to ask to do the approaching yourself, so be sure to make it a little obvious. If I am aware that you are single and beautiful. Regardless of age, I'm going to try and make something of it.
Quick tips
---In public, it's hard to approach a girl who has groupies. Being alone is not safe, but having a group of more than 2 is code for don't talk to me. Nice guys won't want to offend the others in your group by not approaching them instead. ---leave room for the approach. The only way a guy can talk to you is if there is a clean way into conversation. Unless they are willing to look a bit desperate to talk to you, which is not likely. Leave a seat open next to you. Stand in an area that is open and away from corners.
Don't bother ever listening to whiny MGTOWs or incels.
They are immature children in men's bodies.
Every time a MGTOW or incel whines, think of it like your kindergartner child calling you a "poopy-head" because you won't let them eat candy for breakfast. It shouldn't bother you because their opinions aren't worth respecting.
4
3 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Omg you killed me 😂 IM WHEEZING “poopy-head” that’s a real good one! 👌🏻
When i was growing up people said "dont believe what you read in newspapers" ... i think the same more than applies for the internet.
Speaking from experience i found as i grown older that older women seem more attractive to me (i mean when you think about it.. duh me!) Such things are probably written by 18 year olds who think 30 is "old"... to me 30 is when i felt like i actually knew who i was, i am glad am not 20 and not knowing who i am.. i am comfortable who i am and i find women who are similar the same. I look at 40 year old women now and think "damn!!!" I still like women younger than me, but am too old for that energetic life style
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Yes and no.
The guys who obsess about this do so because it's a revenge fantasy. 100%. They see it as "karma" punishing those women for ignoring them in their younger years. These guys also tend to know that they're never going to be successful even in their 30s, so they talk about this shit constantly.
However, there's a little bit of truth to it. As you mentioned, a 20 year old will attract more men than a 30 year old. But it's not as dramatic as "all women over 30 are doomed".
I think that in general when it comes to these things most people try to make sense of it, but they're incapable of removing their own personal feelings from their analysis. Thus they always lie to themselves at least a little bit.
I read what you said and what was said in other comments but the fact is that a woman has a limited number of years to produce children. If she is 30 and hasn’t found someone she is running out of time as she would still need a year or years to find the guy and maybe get married and then nine months to produce one child. She might squeeze two out but they will be close together in age.
But perhaps she isn’t going to have children, then she has a lot of time. But who wants to marry an older woman with no desire for children? Perhaps some but as a guy I would much rather have a string of girlfriends than be tied down without even a family. Just my two cents as to how I would view it. To each his own.
Why do you even read, or think about these idiot posts by Incels and MGTOW morons? They screwed themselves, and tried to make it seem like something they chose! Women are AMAZING, and you should just ignore those idiots, and those posts!! They are afraid of women, can't talk to them, and women think they are creepy, because they are!! They need to sort their own sht, and learn how to be a modern man, and how to talk, communicate and connect with other people!
Lol he's trying to make you feel good. I would actually love to consider some over 30 women but most start to have saggy tits, their ass starts to fall and worst more sexual partners than they can remember and now they might also want kids now lol. Does that sound like a good deal for you?
There are a number of articles and studies that suggest women peak at 18 and men at 50 on dating apps. Men peak physically much later than women. Generally speaking.
0
11 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Uh.. sorry but I don’t think so. I will never consider a relationship with a man who’s 10 years older than me, so with a man 20 years older? Yikes. Men at 50 are bald, and have a sagging chin, and look like uncle ruckus, so I don’t know where he heck to they peak sexually. They can’t have a 20 years old woman in real life unless they are fine with being a sugar daddy, considering that his sugar baby will cheat on him with a young bar tender
Doesn't matter what you think that's what studies say. Also it doesn't mean they're at the their most attractive at 50. It means they continue to be desirable up to 50 and then it declines. Where as for women that decline is much, much sooner.
Lol. I don’t know who the fuck would believe that a 45 years old man is as desirable as a guy who’s 25 years old. Maybe and I repeat maybe he can still remain attractive at 50 if he was already good looking when he was young, but the only women who will want him will be the 40 years old +, but so is the case of an attractive 50 years old women, like Jennifer Lopez. It’s just stupid that 50 years old men feel entitled to young girls, since even Kesha wrote a song about it when says
“You’re a dinosaure, you’re just an old man, get back the museum, hitting on me, what? You need a cat scan!”
That an 18 years old girl is secretly craving to be with an 50 years old man is nothing more than a male’s fantasy.
Probably because you have a more shallow understanding of attractiveness and desirability. It isn't just physical appeal, its financial security, maturity, worldly, not as crazy, kindness, the ebody the warm nurturer that many women like. You might not agree but there is a scientific and societal basis for it.
A 25 yo can be more mature than a 50 years old. Most Women now are financially indépendant so they no longer need to marry a dinosaure to be financially secured. They want a young man to share a longer life with and who will be young enough to play football with their kids not an old bad guy with an erectil dysfunction. That’s why 50 years old white men go to third world country like the Philippines to bring young poor desperate girls. They can’t afford an American 20 years old gold digger, so they go to the poorest countries, to bring a young girl who Instead of asking for a diamond necklace and a bmw will just want a green card and a roof in the US. I even heard some creepy 45 years old men thanking God for the third world poverty cause it’s their only way to get a young wife, but if given the choose the women will definitely choose an American who’s the same age as them, over an old fat ass
You can pick anecdotes all day but its a study on general tendencies. You might not agree with it but I encourage you to read about it. Personally I don't agree with the incel interpretation. I think it's flawed and misguided. Probably intentionally to give them some sort of justification for their beliefs. But like all their justifications, it's misinterpreted and dumb.
That shits only said by kids who can’t imagine being a 30 yr old... I remember calling my dad a geezer when he turned 40 because when I was 8...40 was beyond comprehension... I already knew everything there was to know and he was stupid and old
Yeah because those same dudes turn around and wank to milfs and grannies lol
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
In the past few years, between my divorce and finding an amazing girlfriend, I dated women between 20 and 40. Its not just physical attraction. There are some major mental differences between a 20yo and a 30yo. Some good, some bad.
Most Helpful Opinions