Men do far less of the choosing than women do. We do most of the approaching, but we don't decide who we accept a date with - that's what women do (with a few exceptions, but largely the case).
The big problem with dating today is that it doesn't lead to marriage, and thus doesn't remove people from the dating pool, and this has lead to a huge disruption.
Prior to the 70s (changes started in the 60s, but mostly didn't go into wide effect until the 70s and 80s), if you were a 5 on the 1-10 scale, you were well aware that you were almost certain to end up with a 5 of the opposite sex - MAYBE a 6 if you were lucky. Scoring a 7 - much less a 9.5 - was completely out of the question and you knew it - and if you didn't, everyone would have helpfully reminded you. If you wanted a better match, you had to increase your own value to the opposite sex. Because people matched up and got married, the pool of single people was relatively small. There was also much stronger societal pressure to marry and have a family.
Today, people aren't getting married. Which means the pool of unmarried people is huge - and this allows people to be delusional about who they "deserve" to date. And while this next part applies much more to women than to men, it DOES apply to some men too: many people VASTLY overvalue themselves on the dating market or simply disregard their own value because "mom & dad told me I was special" and they believe they need "the ideal partner" who, of course, is a 9.8+ out of 10, and it doesn't matter that they themselves are a 6 or even a 3. Again, this is mostly women, as women are the choosers in most cases, but, yes, some men think this way too.
The bigger problem is that, because people don't marry and leave the "singles marketplace" anymore, there are going to be a relative few 9+ men in the dating pool - men who in the past would have married and left the marketplace. Instead, they remain single, but their incredible market power due to incredible high demand allows them to date dozens or hundreds of women, mostly using them for sex and status. And for women, lots of women who are 6s and 7s, and some who are 4s and 5s, realize that if they throw sex at a hot guy, he might accept it for a night or even a couple of weeks. This makes her think that she "must" be of high value herself, and thus deserves a 9+ guy, because "that's all I've ever dated." Except she never really dated those guys - she just let them use her to increase her own status in her own mind and perhaps among her female friends. None of those guys ever took her seriously or considered a serious relationship with her, much less a marriage.
So these average and maybe slightly above average women have decided that they'll only "settle" for a very rare, elite guy who is handsome, has a hot body, a great career, plenty of money, who treats her nice, who her friends wish they were with, and who lets her get her way - in other words, she wants a guy that doesn't exist. And because she won't settle for anything less, because she'd be "cheating herself", she would NEVER consider dating a guy who was a 6 or a 7 - she doesn't even NOTICE such men in most cases. As a result, she spends her 20s and early 30s either single or bouncing from one hot 9+ guy to the next who only use her for sex and never take her seriously. Many of those guys are completely immoral and selfish, but they're hot, so it doesn't matter.
Typically, these women eventually get pregnant, have a kid or two (often from different "sperm donors"), and are in their mid-30s when the hot guys will no longer even accept free sex from them - and THEN they start considering 7s and 8s, without realizing that they've become 2's and 3's in the meantime. Eventually, they become bitter, man-hating feminists who complain that men are the cause of all of these problems. She may have a career and a nice place to live, but she's alone, and she's miserable, and her collection of cats ultimately do little to improve the situation.
The minority of women who are much more realistic, and who date men of about equal value as themselves, tend to do much, MUCH better - but there are fewer and fewer of those every year.
I want a wife and kids so I’m looking for quality... that being said sexual is sex and if shoe wiggles her butt most single men will follow lmao
Also quality women are a rare breed. Assuming by quality you mean what men find quality... feminine women that care for, respect, and remain loyal to their men are quality. Many people because of various situations like covid are stuck inside... young men who should be out dating are stuck inside trying to date online. Women are giving a very poor showing online though. Slutty with attitude and these men see this and think do I really wanna deal with this. Many men don’t even get rejection done don’t get and validation especially in dating apps. Study’s say 80% of women go for the same 20% of men on apps and if not now then soon in the future it could be 90:10. Do you want to fight with 90% of women for the same men? Can you?
Here’s what I see. Women keep hyper focusing on these super quality men and think they all deserve these men and anything less is trash. Men see this and see absolutely no reason to try and be better for women instead choosing to live their bachelor life and focus only on their career. Women get less and less attention they want and get used more and more for sex. Eventually either we balanced this Bullshit our society breaks down... personally I’m hoping for the ladder. And fix won’t happen in my dating lifetime so ide rather watch society burn.
Sure, but honestly I don't think a lot men have the same idea of "quality" that maybe some women do. They seem to be willing to accept so many things if she's super hot, for example. I've known women who brag about all the shit they get away with (no empathy, abusive, cheating, etc.) - simply because they're mega hot. Well, that and his own self-esteem, etc. as well.
Second, certain qualities that I would define as desirable might only be prioritized by men who share those qualities as well. Men who are not specifically intelligent may not see the value in someone who wants to have intellectual conversations or who enjoys depth in their interaction with people, things, the world. (My life story ahhhh lol) Other men love it. Men who lack x trait as a priority in their own lives might be intimidated, feel insecure, and very put off by a woman who is like that. Not all men are the same and they won't be able to appreciate some of those great qualities because they don't understand their value OR they're threatened by it on some level. This just depends on the man in question and the traits that are defined as high quality. Everyone prioritizes different things that seem high quality to them, so you would need to really explain what you're talking about. For some of us, it's the intellectual, for others it's the athletic or even just being "down to earth." I think a lot of it is really about finding people similar in different ways and feeling comfortable and accepted.
Back to the first point I made - a lot of people, both men and women struggle with issues with their own self-worth, self-esteem, forming healthy relationships and intimacy. When it comes to critical things like empathy, vulnerability, healthy communication, being able to consider what your partner needs, etc. - if he hasn't worked through his own barriers to identifying and receiving (and giving) healthy love and affection, he may actually crave the drama, chaos, abuse, etc. And men especially are discouraged from understanding their emotions and psychological development, so that's a problem too. Desperation to not be alone + all of these issues could easily lead one to choose and stick with a "toxic" woman or man.
Also, defining someone as low-quality is something we should be hesitant to do. While I understand the implication in some situations, It's not very nice when you think about it. People are all imperfect and everyone is struggling with something. Low-quality love/relationships should be the focus here, not defining people as less than for not being as intelligent, athletic, beautiful, etc. They're people too.
There have always been a proportion of men who choose short-term sexual satisfaction and have little interest in women for other reasons. Then you've got your men who are always keeping an eye out for "quality women" and they may, or may not, do the short-term hookups in the mean time. I think what makes the time we live in now seem a bit worse/different, is that the internet and dating apps made it way, way easier to find people, rate people, objectify people, and ultimately hookup for one-night stands. And it's like going fishing - there's a lot of fish in the pond and people keep dipping their rod back in. They'll keep doing it until they get bored of fishing or the pond runs dry. While that's happening, the others in the second group I mentioned are watching the hedonism, wondering where all the 'good catches' are (they're lost and obscured in the feeding frenzy), and feeling like society is rapidly devolving into a lustful orgy of instant gratifiers. (Maybe it is, but it wouldn't be the first time in history. Not even close.)
- She feels comfortable in her feminity but doesn’t abuse it. That is she doesn’t feel entitled to anything in this world except respect when it is EARNED.
- She’s a hard worker and independent. Being educated is great. But just being educated doesn’t mean your smart nor does it guarantee success. She’s doesn’t expect corporations to kiss her ass just because she “rose above patriarchy” to land a job in any field.
- She recognizes motherhood is an honor but it’s not an obligation. She doesn’t need to be pressured into having kids but not should be “proud” of not having kids (or worse aborting them). It should be looked at as a personal choice either way.
- She can be emotional but she’s not a slave to her emotions. She doesn’t dive head first into a deep dark pit with some asshole and makes of the bs excuse “but I had feelings for him”. If she does something stupid she owns up to her mistake and recognizes she willingly participated in a bad dating decision. She doesn’t blame anybody but herself BUT she learns from the lesson and moved on. When the tables are turned she doesn’t screw over some other guy just to “even the score” for the tea.
- If she lives in a western country she recognizes that she has the means to make it on her own financially. She might enjoy having an upgraded lifestyle if she dates a man that’s well off. But she’s not dependent on him. She can make it on her own if need be.
- She realizes that she will never fully understand men nor vice versa. But she doesn’t use that as an excuse to disrespect men or complain they don’t understand her. She controls her emotions and takes a step back when she hears a male POV. But she also has the capacity to calmly communicate what’s on her mind.
- She fights fair when things go wrong. Although she might say something irrational, nasty or mean in the heat of the moment she can take a step back and recognize she took cheap shots. That is nasty insults she can throw out against other people (e. g. men) which would be 100% societal unacceptable if the roles are reverse. For example if she pissed off at a guy at work or in public over something frivolous she doesn’t insult his appearance or something unrelated to the issue at hand to “one up” him just to win an argument. If she did go over the top she has the strength to apologize for it afterwards. She doesn’t use “well I’m a woman and I was upset” as a bullshit excuse to kick him in between the legs.
- If she does have success particularly in a male dominated field she doesn’t say “oh I’m a woman, look at me. I’m so SPECIAL”. No she see’s it as NO SURPRISE that she succeeded because we live in a western world that is encouraging gender equality.
- She rejects men the right way. That is she calmly tells them she’s not interested but she respects the risk he took approaching her (if he was polite). She doesn’t play games, use him or assume he’s okay with the friendzone. Instead she tactfully communicated while respecting his position. She recognizes his mindset is different than his.
She can judge gradations of inappropriate behavior vs. real abuse. For example she isn’t going to go all #metoo and victim if a random guy catcalls her. She has a right to be pissed off but it shouldn’t be something she loses sleep over. However if she is a victim of real abuse (forcible sexual assault or rape) she takes action and reports it. When her emotions (and/or trauma) subside she provides details of exactly what happened and gets help controlling her emotions which can warp her memory to either omit or exaggerate issues.
- She does not have a higher standard for men then what she has for herself (especially in dating)
- She does the best with what body and appearance she was born with. If she’s prone to being heavy set then she makes a consistent effort to be fit. She doesn’t blame anybody else if she’s clinically obese. She makes do with what she has.
We really do prefer quality women to marry or date long term the problem is sluts are fun in the short term and emotional attachments accidental pregnancys etc causes a man to stay. Also women don't value the things men do in a women so by how a large portion of men judge women we can't find women of value. there's definitely great woman out there but between it being hard to tell the difference between a slut and a real quality women and girls that are a 2 thinking the deserve a 6 ft plus 200k a year earner with no baggage even though she's coming with tons of it a lot of men aren't getting into long term relationship so the sleep around with sluts and keep to themselves otherwise. I had an argument myself with my wife last night because of her new found need to be a social butterfly if I wants a woman that was always out and about I wouldn't have chosen her. You also can't present slut problems like the annoying friends that believe they have input into the relationship the wanting to be out whenever you want wear do and say whatever you want and call the man abusive or controlling when he voice's concern or negative reactions to it strippers etc don't do that and if she out doing things you don't like or approve of it's who she was when you met her so you have to accept it or leave you don't even consider it from the librarian a lot of men are against the concept of an independent woman not that we don't want her to be self sufficient but to be wanted or need to fill out the balance of our strengths and weeknesses as a team if your not a team player I might as well be with the fun sexual chick you can't be boring or annoying and have other hang up while sluts are seen as the more fun path or less resistance
Depends on what you mean by "quality". Some guys have low standards and will stick their dick in anything, ugly or otherwise. Some guys will be so caught up in a girl's appearance that he'll put up with shitty behaviour, whereas other guys aren't attracted to a girl unless he's attracted to her personality and develops an emotional connection. Even still, a girl could have a well-rounded personality but some guys still won't go for her because they don't find her a "quality woman" from a physical standpoint.
Absolutely. But let me ask in return, how many women are going to think of themselves as “quality women”, and how many are going to think of themselves as the low quality woman not worth choosing? As opposed to what men are going to view as a “quality woman”
I’m not the be all end decider of what reality is by any means, but I have seen a LOT of insecure and otherwise “low quality” women parading and touting themselves as queens worthy of the utmost praise and best of the best.
My estimate is that about 90% of women would rate themselves as above average quality and worthy of a quality man, while if judged by others (or men specifically), it would be more like 10%-20% of women being of “keeper” quality.
I’ve always wanted a quality woman, I feel it’s a little harder to come by these days but, yes. I don’t want a woman who has promiscuous sex or is too childish (of course she still has to be fun to hang out with though); that’s just me. There are guys out there who pretend they want a quality woman but , then want to sleep with the girl that same night they meet the girl or they will pressure a girl into things. Don’t fall for that guy ladies and believe me the shyer (if that’s a word) guys are most likely more genuine. Not to say the confident aren’t genuine buuut, be careful with confusing confidence and arrogance
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Anonymous
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That's all I've ever been trying to find. Nowadays, it's so easy for women to be considered "quality" based on the amount of their OnlyFans subscriptions. It has skewed the mindset of what makes a quality woman to the point it's hard to find women unlike the former. Even if you do find a quality woman, it doesn't guarantee that you will fit their high standards that most women typically have. I can ask the question 'Do women still choose quality men?' Because, from my friends' experiences and my personal experiences, women will turn down a quality man simply because they don't reach the height they're looking for.
I know that I'll probably get a chain of replies telling me "men do it more" or some other bs like that. But, let me ask you the question: How hard does a quality woman have to work at being chosen compared to a quality man? The answer: a lot less than what the man has to work at.
@Anon I hear you and I understand. I guess this is quite the subjective question. Depending on the person you would find yourself working really hard to end up with nothing. I mean I was turned down on the basis of being ugly.. so I know there are extremely picky men
I personally believe our generation is loosing respect for real love. Like everyone is going for the girl with 5k followers or more and the guy with the sports car. At least in my country this is a weird phenomena, like real love is loosing priority or something.
@CurLyF and looks and fame. Love has taken a material based turn. Now you are as good as you look etc. This is eventually gonna make people lose their grip on spirituality if it hasn't happened already
I pick neither, honestly there are so many different people, they like different people, they have different tastes. One person you find to be "quality" does not mean another person will and vice versa. This question is quite controversial. As men and woman are very different when it comes to not only their brain but their anatomy and body in general. The way it works, their organs, etc. As scientifically proven men don't work good with emotions they are oddly simple thinkers. While woman are all about emotion and thats what they use to do everything. But in they case everyone is different and some females may not think rational and some guys may be very emotional.
Overly generalized questions like these are very confusing. The only thing it creates is arguments and drama.
Here are the facts:
1. A "quality" woman means different things to different men. There's no universal definition. 2. Not all men behave the same way 3. A man can think he chose a quality woman in his eyes, only to regret it later on. 4. A man can think he didn't choose a good woman in his eyes, only to find out she's actually (once again, in his eyes) a quality woman later on.
Hardly nowadays, it will be hard but stay true to yourself if you are a good woman and it will pay off in other ways. Low grade women are not happy and their relationships with the men who choose them are toxic and taxing on them. If you wait it out long enough, you will find the one who matches your energy.
The quality ones tend to be with a woman for a long period of time feom a young age or are married before they are 30.
This goes for both men and women. Common trends for that are that both have healthy and respectable boundaries, good communication, good relationships with their family and parents and friends. Got myself a hell of a woman now and although it took a long time to find her, it was worth it.
Usually not until like 30s or 40s, when they want to settle down. At that time the good women are gone and don’t want somebody who has been everywhere, hence why those men complain so much and also why they tend to get divorces... because guess who initiates the divorce. The woman who finds them unsuitable!
I wouldn't agree with that either. I'd say men and women who are usually in bad relationships the best case scenario is that they leave that one only to jump into another toxic relationship.
No I really dont' know. Good job? Good looking? Healthy? Nice and giving? I mean those all seem like common sense but then in real life you see a lot of well deserving guys getting the short end of the stick. Even the bad boys get chosen over the descent guys not even "nice" just descent. I am not making this about me I know I am very far from perfect but just from what I've seen in real life.
@AFellowWeeb I disagree, but for your benefit let’s say that is the case. If they’re tired of the same dick then they’re doing the same thing the guy did when he was whoring around. She just got more benefit out of it
@AFellowWeeb You don’t like the truth? Because that’s what it is. Yeah, women are getting there more and more, all in for sex. That’s what is hurting men. If women still went for love and relationships they would see a reason to change. But both now want the same thing, and women have the upper hand. Men have been more promiscuous than women. Some say that’s nature. But it is what it is. Can’t be a hypocrite about it
Whats does that even mean here? Women like u are the reason a lot of men quit marrying and even dating, women these days are so entitled its insane, im not ur father, im not ur crying pillow neither ur atm machine, we are humans too
@AFellowWeeb What makes you think I’m like those women? I’ve already been proposed marriage to, so obviously that can’t be true. If you think I’m a feminist or even a man-hater you’re wrong. You were just so quick to try to attack me and epically failed. So okay, I don't know what you might have been through or whatever, but you can’t hold everything against one person because they say something you don’t like.
Bc u apear in every single comment section I've seen, ure one of those, ''a guy has to provide me car house love and money, but i only need to look pretty'' thats fucking entitlement, and yes, thats the reason a lot of guys are tired of even trying to date anymore, can we even blame them? Like i said, we are humans, thats not a fair trade off, giving love and loaylty on a relationship is expected BOTH WAYS, so if u only have that to give, THATS UNFAIR, like i allways like to say, lets trade shoes, and see how fair it is
@AFellowWeeb Show me ONE place where I said that first sentence you said I've said. Show me where I said it. Because you're wrong. I'm in med school; I can provide for myself, trust me. But is he gonna ask me out? You bet. I don't want a sissy. You also forget that men also have entitlements. Whether you use them or not is on you.
by the way, i re read all this convos, i like the fact that u ignored when the guy asked you, what does ur ideal man has to have, lemme guess, makes more money than you, is handsome, makes first move, has licence ( even if u dont ) has house of his own ( even if u dont ) and is not a man whore, wow , not self entitlement at all, relationships should be fully 50-50 the problem is that desperate men give too much power to women
@AFellowWeeb You have issues. You can’t back up anything you say, and what you’re saying is far from the truth. Every guy I’ve dated actually has less money than I do. Well isn’t that interesting
''Every guy I’ve dated'' hoooooo, so u did in fact kinda slutted around, but u on other post said u wanted to marry and that u are tradicional, that u refuse guys aproaches, nice bias, u picked up a fight agaisnt a person that takes notes on what people say, basically. Plus, what do u even mean by i can't backup anything im saying, ure the one dodging questions here, not me, u didn't even responded the guy that asked what do u consider ideal man, ur response was ''forget it''
Nothing you picked up is wrong except for that last part. I'm very traditional, proud of it. Dating and having sex are two different things, especially for someone who's been raised traditionally. It's people who weren't raised like this who consider them the same with no love involved (sounds like you're one of them). So your assumption - a rather stupid one - is wrong. The part you got wrong is this last part, and you're trying to insult me but you're epically failing and making yourself look stupid. (no offense) If you wanna continue to try then feel free to waste your time, I won't stop you.
You can't back up what you're saying. = You can't prove it. - Show me where I was only into a guy because he had more money than me? - Show me where I said that first line you stated? Where's the proof? Back yourself up.
@AFellowWeeb For one thing, since you wanna mention money and it seems to be your go-to, I have more money than my fiancé does. But I’m okay with that and he is too. Apart, we have good lives on our own, but together I have more as far as monetary-wise. So... apart from money... women can be more than just a mother. We can be amazing wives/partners, and some of us don’t criticize a man because he cries, toxic masculinity is bs, I’m not ashamed to have sex with my husband, I’d enjoy seducing him and pulling him into it a different way each time because that’s fun for me but he likes it too ;) , and I support him in everything, always will, and let’s be real: men don’t have much reason to stay in a marriage nowadays, but he proposed to me for a reason, he knows I will make a best wife for him, I’ve literally asked him what his dream wife is like and every day I’m trying to check off the things on his list. (Doing well :) ) I will say that my fiancé is a serious person, he’s not one to play around, so if he didn’t want to stay long-term I would definitely know it, and he’s a very good decision-maker, so I think his decision speaks volumes even apart from everything I just said. Doesn’t change the fact that I AM, without a doubt, the lucky one.
And please tell me this explained everything lol because I’m a little bored of this. I wasn’t judging you and don’t mind helping but enough is enough 🤦🏻♀️
''I have more money than my fiancé does'', i dont know if its bc of a job u have or ur familly is stacked, not only that, but he probably has less money bc he has to pay for the bills, car, and house, see, this is bs, this is why women live on recruit level but hate to admit, to be a good wife u just need to be a good human being, to be a good husband, u need to be a good human being AND pay for all the bills, see, unfair @yads_is_back
@AFellowWeeb Actually, we haven’t moved out yet, he lives with his parents still. I have a degree in biochem so I get six digits a year. He’s older than me and has a degree in psychology but rn like I said he doesn’t make an actual income. Dude, I don’t mean anything against you, I really don’t, but you are just determined to make all women look bad and that doesn’t work. I don't know what you might have been through with women and I do apologize if I have come off rude in any way, but you’re so determined that we are just devils. You’re not gonna find someone worth even a fraction of any of your time or effort with a knife insistent attitude like that. I mean, I wish you the best, but seems like you aren’t willing to try for that. So oh well, adios
@AFellowWeeb Those women say the exact same thing about men, and the points they make are generally valid as well. Doesn’t mean men as a whole are bad or that all of them are bad. And I’m not gonna let that give me a bad attitude toward men because 1) it’s just worthless and keeps you from being happy and 2) I wouldn’t have met my fiancé
Some of the men on GaG are like.. an entirely different breed from regular men. There are still high quality men who are searching for high quality women. All you have to do is get comfy in your heels and step over the trash until you find something nice.
This is an odd question, and one that's not clearly stated. What is a "quality women"? Are you asking about beauty, education, wealth, social status? The question is not clear. However, I believe anyone who looks for a partner for reasons other than mutual interest in each other is not going to work well. Best wishes.
I will say... for me a quality women have no a 2 digit partners in the past, has no babies but what, its not divorced, don't like the idea of divorce, is independent but more of a team player. she respect man, not feminist, and she cares about your well being, not self centered.
You know the problem with this question? It's that its going to have have dishonest answers. Most guys are gonna say they do yet they actually don't. Unfortunately my oldest brother is like this. He has a major self destructive behavior in him. He always goes after the women with the shittiest problems and then ends up getting cheated on or just sabotage the whole relationship.
@blondfrog true but I will accept your honest though. Maybe your big bro needs to take a break and really look within himself and ask why he is either running after or attracting these types of women. That's what I am doing right now.
I already have confronted him and did everything possible. People like that will never change. That's what you women can learn from. Stop going after the guys who need to be fixed. Guys are guilty of this too but women do it more. You don't have to go after the fake ""nice" guy either. I mean don't go to either sides of the extreme and then become flabbergasted when you have your heart broken again. It's your fault for not just going after the descent person just because they can sometimes be boring.
Yes. Even if they themselves look like a potato and aren't making enough money but they will SURELY go after a beautiful and successful woman. Isn't that selfish? I hope that all the men who voted yes are quality men themselves. They should also be of good quality otherwise it feels like a trash is trying to dump itself on a good woman.
Okay so basically men are looking for good quality woman and it's okay. But it's not okay if low quality men are expecting to get good quality women. So many men make fun of women who don't fit their fantasies but they expect to be accepted by a woman who is "better" than them. Isn't it hypocrisy?
Yeah, some guys do. Like women, lots of men are terrible at identifying women who are good for them. You've got two sides of this equation; men's tastes, and then men's selection. You can have the best tastes in the world, but if the options you have to choose from aren't so good; well... Everybody works with what they've got.
I do, that is why I am single. I cannot for the life of me find a quality woman and its very frustrating seeing how low quality many women are but also how absolutely pathetic men are who actively ignore all the redflags from a woman just so they can avoid being alone or just so they can get their dick wet. Its like they are just brainless (I blame women for being low quality, but I also blame men for it too because they encouraged it and went along with it.).
Yes. Quality women will always prevail. Lesser quality women are just louder than you so they are heard and seen more. But the woman a man keeps is able to say things for the man that the man cannot express or prove himself.
There’s no glory in having you if my friend could, my father could, and my enemy could. A woman that is inaccessible to other men is the qualifier for marriage. You don’t gotta be famous to be that woman.
Good solid men are choosing snatching up all the good women FAST, when they're fairly young. The rest of us are having sex with trainwrecks and hook ups but NOT marrying or seriously dating. The last 3 women I've had sex with were women I'd never have any intension of getting into a real relationships because they're a total MESS. I haven't been in a real relationship with a woman I really want to be with in 4 years. But I have around 1 or 2 "flings a year" . The last one ended a few weeks ago and almost got me thrown out of school. Too many fucked up crazy ass mental cases out there for men to really consider relationships anymore unless the chick is solid, intelligent, accomplished and young right from the start... and that's rare these days
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