Do women want chivalry or equality?

[enousonca]

women always say they want equality (defining it as not to be treated different because of sex) and to be equal to men but they also say they like chivalry (the new definition is men acting with women as gentlemen specially because of their gender and not the old definition which is about a code of knights) and say that men don’t treat women as women anymore.

women can have either equality or chivalry not both. one can’t have it both way.

so what do women want?

[humpbackjack]

There’s no reason to draw such a hard line why can’t I treat everyone the same I mean if I’m coming out of a door and someone is headed to the same door I’m going to hold it for them if I see someone being mistreated I’m going to stop of course if I’m eating lunch with a guy friend I’m not going to pull his chair out or anything like that but I might pay for lunch and at the same time I might pull a dates chair out for her but if she wants to pay for lunch I’m ok with that and I have literally carried my wife across a puddle on more than one occasion so she wouldn’t mess up her shoes and a guy friend is on his own these are all little things in my opinion now as far as some bigger things I think that a woman in the work force should be treated by her own abilities and if she is doing the same job as I am then they deserve the same pay of course things like seniority and quality and production can all be part of the equation but being male or female shouldn’t and in my household there were certain things my wife had say over and things I had say over and to be honest for the most part my wife ran the day to day things I mean we both worked out our budget and I worked every day so we could live our life and she stayed home with our girls yes four daughters so my wife was best equipped to take care of the house stuff at one point though she was feeling like she was being left behind by her friends and other adults and wanted to get a job or start school and so she got a job when I was between projects and I stayed home what we learned was she didn’t like it and missed being a mommy so after about a month she quit and I went back to building America we both did what we did best. Trying to cut such a hard line is just you trying to prove a point or make a stand and it’s going to make having a fulfilling relationship with a woman extremely difficult and even if you’re not into women why not just avoid the hardcore feminist and not make a hard line with all women always fighting the fight is going to be draining I truly think when someone is so focused on such things then that’s all they’re going to see and will miss all the good stuff

[ChrisMaster69]

Again another person that does not understand chivalry.

The Geneva convention is an example of chivalry.

opening the door to a girl is chivalry, as it is to anyone in need, a guy carrying boxes, older people.

IT DOES NOT EQUATE TO EQUALITY.

Back to the Geneva convention, the chivalry bit is not killing civilians, the equality bit means it applies to all civilians irrespective of gender, ethnicity, sexuality, religion, wealth / social standing.

YOU CAN HAVE BOTH CHIVALRY AND EQUALITY.

You can also have equality without chivalry.

You can have chivalry without equality as well, although that’s more awkward due to the Chivalric Codes - Martial, Religious, and Courtly.

There is a thing about Conduct becoming an officer.

If you get historical with Chivalry it was nothing to do with equality, if you were not of a certain level, you did not exist, there was no equality, you could and were often killed out of hand or sold into servitude.

Also there is no modern version, as no heraldic court has signed one off.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Both can exist, but if I'm ONLY being given an option of one or the the other then give me equality any day of the week.

[enousonca]

no they can't. one can't have his cake and eat it, too. it is this or that.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Uh yes they can. Equality is about having the choice.

For example, I personally like doing things for myself and am not into the whole holding my door and pulling out my chair stuff.

Girl B may absolutely eat all that chivalry stuff up and like it.

Equality says both can exist. It says we both have the choice to pick what kind of person we want to date. If you want to be chivalrous then you'll have an easier time with her than you would with me. With equality, I'm not going to be forced to deal with you being chivalrous and making me feel awkward.

[enousonca]

it is wanting two opposite things. chivalry is benevolent sexism opposite to equality. it is like one saying he want to be tall but also short. just how?
also equality has nothing to do with choice. it is about being treated the same. what you are describing is called liberty. the two are different.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Wrong. You are misusing equality.

Equality is being treated like equals. Chivalry is defined as:

Very polite, honest, and kind behavior, especially by men toward women. the system of behavior followed by knights in the medieval period of history, that put a high value on honor, kindness, and courage

You are not a knight, but you can be kind. If I open a door for you on a date, am I being chivalrous? How about if I open EVERY door for you? Can I even be chivalrous if its a woman? What if its two women on a date? Then what? Is chivalry inherently a male exclusive trait?

[enousonca]

i wasn't talking about the old definition of chivalry and i did mention that beside i was talking about chivalry of men to women. what are you talking about is politeness.
but i see that words is going to be problematic since we both see different definitions.
have a good day.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

You take care as well 😊

[MartianBuddy]

So am I being sexist if I hold a door open for a woman?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Nope, but just understand not every woman wants you to.

[PrettyPriya]

Why can't we have both? My SO treats me as an equal and has always been a gentleman to me and others. So...

[enousonca]

one can't have his cake and eat it, too. it is this or that.
as for your so well that is his choice but he and any man isn't obligated to do so.
this or that.

[PrettyPriya]

@enousonca So essentially you are saying that my fiancé, of whom you don't know, is not a gentleman and doesn't also treat me as an equal?

[enousonca]

i never said that. i don't know him. i just spoke generally about men as a whole. they aren't obligated to deal with that.

[PrettyPriya]

@enousonca True. They aren't obligated. Those men are usually termed "single".

[enousonca]

who cares? it is better than to deal with double standards.

[SenileOldMan]

Most women I know still value a man who makes them feel safe: a protector over a predator, and a leader rather than a follower. I don't think a man who is dominant and protective has to think of a woman as not being his equal though. A person doesn't have to think he or she is stronger than another person (man or woman) to protect them if they're compromised and could use protection or think he's superior if he wants to step up to the plate and lead.

I see even a man twice my size who is drowning and I want to swim and protect him. Some of these hyper-feminist types seem to think the only reason we want to protect or lead is from thinking we're stronger or superior and seem to think our efforts to lead or protect are infantilizing. Maybe there are some gentlemen who think this way and only find the motivation to protect and lead what they perceive to be the weak, but I think those feminist types are largely mistaking the intentions of most gentlemen.

[SenileOldMan]

And my wife protects me in her own way. She takes care of me when I'm ill, makes sure I take my meds, for example. She nurtures me. But I don't think her motivation is coming from the standpoint that she thinks she's better than me, or that I'm weak. Women protect men this way very often and I don't question their intentions this way. I just appreciate the gestures.

[enousonca]

i just don't see how one can have it both way. it is wanting two opposite things. chivalry is benevolent sexism opposite to equality. it is like one saying he want to be tall but also short. just how?

[SenileOldMan]

I think it might be more difficult if we conflate "equal" with "identical". I thoroughly disagree with social constructionist views of gender, for example, since I think our biological differences will have rather profound differences in our behaviors and thought patterns. That's obvious even looking at trans people. Their thought patterns and feelings start to change radically after hormone therapy.

But I think there's plenty of room for us to take care of each other while having our equal sets of opportunities, and without protecting/nurturing the other to the point of depriving each other of opportunities. More women might find themselves more competent and interested in expressing that through nurturing touches. More men might find themselves more competent and interested in expressing that through protective hands.

[SenileOldMan]

Also, think we can revise some of these older ideas in a contemporary way. Take the old gentleman notion that a man should never hit a woman. Okay, that's a bit in line with the benevolent sexism idea but it probably came about at a time before many women learned self-defense, how to throw devastating right hooks, or participated in the military. I don't think there was anyone like Amanda Nunes around when they came up with such notions. So if we just tweak that a bit like, "Try not to use excessive force to defend yourself against someone that poses little threat to you," we're good now. Now it's gender-neutral and even applies to a big man defending himself against a crippled small man trying to throw punches at him from a wheelchair, e. g.

[Anonymous]

That's the problem they want both. And they want it at the times they want it, from who they want it from lol.
And the problem is they're women so you can't tell them this. They have to figure it out for themselves.
Basically feminism has left most women confused. The goal was equality. But biology and thousands of years of evolution and social conditioning has gender roles ingrained in them. So what you end up with is a woman who competes for the same job as a man, who takes away his livelihood and then judges him for not having the livelihood to support her, and in terms of today's society, her many illegitimate kids.

It's really not a surprise why the marriage rate is about 50% today and falling. There really isn't anything in it for guys anymore

[enousonca]

yeah they want their cake and eat it, too.
as for feminism i don't know what feminism even is since it has many definitions.
but this happened because of the women liberation movement mainly in 1960s-1970s as it removed gender roles for women but not for men. men had authorities and rights over their women but also obligations and responsibilities. but now only the latter. they still expect that. one can't have the benefits of patriarchy without its costs.

[nice-girl]

Chivalry in personal relationships and equality in general in society.

[enousonca]

sorry but women can't choose when they want men to do it and when to not do it. this is just double standards. either they apply it all the time and at no time.

[jennifer_bloom]

I want neither chivalry nor equality - I want respect, interest and appreciation. A man who cares about me, wants me happy and is willing to do half the house work and money earning and child raising.

[awkward_author]

They want both but in different situations. For example, equality in the workplace and chivalry on dates.

[enousonca]

seem like double standards.

[awkward_author]

It is what it is at this point.

[Anonymous]

If being a genuine gentleman is equal to equality then that's what I want

[enousonca]

what?
those are two opposite things. chivalry is benevolent sexism opposite to equality. it is like one saying he want to be tall but also short. just how?

[Opinion Owner]

But for me chivalry isn't the same as being a gentleman. Even if the two concepts are close by definition

[Opinion Owner]

When I say gentleman I mean goodness and respect

[Anonymous]

I think we have all come to realize that women want equality when it benefits them but not when it doesn't.

[enousonca]

really? shocking!
just look at the rest of the comments asking why not both.
they want two opposite things. chivalry is benevolent sexism opposite to equality. it is like one saying he want to be tall but also short. just how?

[Opinion Owner]

Yeup.

[Citizenkirk]

Chivalry was a code of conduct on the field of battle. I don't think too many women would want the formalities or the cruelty that comes with that coat of Honor.

[DWornock]

That depends on whether or not the guy is hot.

[enousonca]

my man

[Agape93]

Equality.

[enousonca]

at least you chose just one unlike the rest who wanted their cake and eat it, too.
so take my like.

[Agape93]

I'm realistic. Way I see it, equals are respected as people. That's all I want.

[Iron_Man]

They want to be treated like a white princess

[enousonca]

they want their cake and eat it, too.

[Iron_Man]

Right

[JesseJayNeak]

They want both. But they can’t have it

[enousonca]

yup that is exactly what it is.

[driven159]

they want both their cake and eat it too

[enousonca]

you don't say! you don't say. doesn't really surprise me.