Can non vegan/non vegetarian people be animals lovers?

[Anonymous]

Note: This is just an opinion. I am not defending anyone (neither vegans not non vegans) but simply stating things from a psychological point of view.

Since veganism is a trending topic now, I have seen most vegans stating that non vegan are not animal lovers. I mean how can you hurt someone that you love? Honestly, there are different variants of love and the most common prototypes are selfish love and selfless love. Vegans are selfless animal lovers because they choose animals over themselves. Non Vegans are selfish animal lovers because they choose themselves (and their pets) over another animals.

Now another thing I have seen is most vegans aren't animal lovers, at all. They chose to be vegan because they don't support buying animal products obtained using cruelty.

There are still dairies that obtain milk manually, not by machines and all that soul sucking engines and that milk is definitely for non commercial use because, let's be real, commercialism in today's world do not have ethics.

Even if we leave animal products out of the equation and bring in, say vegan milk, there are adulterants inside that can be harmful.

And back to the old topic. Many people say plants are living beings too and they feel pain too. Many people have themselves told me that just because I don't eat meat for Ethical reasons then it's unethical for me to eat plants because the feel pain too. So my argument here is plants are living beings but they do not feel pain. At least that's not proved yet and by far using evidence justifying meat eating by comparing plants feeling pain is definitely a lame statement.

And there are vegans who kill cockroaches and mosquitos.

Thirdly I see vegan posts that say if someone did this to your dog or cat then it's shouldn't be a problem. Now there is a flaw here. Every animal's life is equally valuable and that's why the post is made. And it actually makes a lot of sense but here is a flaw that I will explain in the next paragraph.

Now the part where it shouldn't be a problem. Now if we talk with regards to humans, we don't love every human beings. In fact there are human beings we despise from the bottom of our hearts so say if that person passed away we wouldn't even bat an eyelash. If a good person we didn't know pass away, we would feel really bad but after a few days we get over it. Now if someone really dear to us (pets included) passes away, that's the most heart shattering thing that ever happens, it's a personal loss and it would take years to move on. Similarly this is what happens. There are three situations here and it can be either of the three or a combo of two or three situations.

Now let's come to the final solutions. Whatever posts vegans are making it's good except the ones that I mentioned above. No amount of guilt tripping will change this. I have seen people saying "I love animals on my plate". What you can do is keep sharing the BTS videos. People who are compassionate enough will go vegan. Those who choose themselves over animals, maybe they will come around, maybe they won't and there's no hope for those who says "I love animals on my plate".

And I have missed another point. Believe it or not there are people who don't survive after being vegan or vegetarian. My grandmother gave up non veg for 20 years but during the last one or two years she lost the ability to walk and couldn't remember stuff, not even her children. The doctors said that the only way for her to survive was include non veg in her diet. We lost her in October 2018. But without the non veg diet, we could have lost her much earlier. So being an obligate omnivore won't change the fact that people don't love animals or they enjoy animal cruelty. It's just they have to choose themselves over animals and it's not for palate pleasure.

That's all I can say for now. Let's be civil while discussing this in the comments section. Everyone should be polite as this is a sensitive topic.

[Lliam]

Humans are not carnivores like cats. They are not herbivores. They are not fructivores. They evolved as omnivores; opportunists. That's why they spread to every part of the world and thrived. A balanced omnivore diet can be very healthy and rich in vitamins, minerals, and necessary fats.

It makes sense to love a pet. But to love every individual animal on the planet is a stretch. That is unrealistic sentimentality. What is more realistic is to respect and value all life, and have a sense of gratitude.

I don't value the predator more than the prey. Predators are seldom malicious as are some humans.

Prey animals evolved to proliferate at a high rate. Think of deer and wildebeests. They are an extremely important food source for many other valuable creatures. There is a natural balance to ecosystems.

When wolves were eliminated from Yellowstone, deer and elk populations began to overgraze and cause loss of plant species. Overgrazing can cause desertification.

It makes sense to minimize an animal's suffering if you need to kill it for food. It makes absolute sense not to kill endangered species.

I am an omnivore who does eat meat. When possible, I prefer to get my meat from sources that treat the animals humanely. I have local sources. I hate the way animals are treated by cold-blooded factory farms.

I am friends with the local Native American tribe. They show gratitude and reverence for the animals they harvest. And the give back to nature by caring for it.

I get eggs from local people who raise chickens humanely.

I try to buy produce, as much as possible, from local farms that don't grow GMO varieties or use agricultural poisons.

I'm sad that the thousands of small dairy farms have been lost to large commercial operations. I buy organic milk. And I'm grateful for milk products, like butter and cheeses, from around the world.

Back to meat eating. We killed off the vast, sustainable herds of bison, deer and elk tat served as food for all kinds of predators, including humans. Those animals also served to make healthy habitats by grazing, breaking up the soil and fertilizing.

We replaced them with cattle ranches. We are discovering that cattle could be just as beneficial to the ecosystem if managed properly.

Animals served the same purpose in pre-industrial farming, and still do in sustainable farms. Cattle graze what is left after harvest. Pigs essentially plow the earth. Chickens eat bugs and weeds. All of them fertilize and build healthy soil. And all of them can be harvested for food.

Deer are very prolific and can overpopulate if left unchecked in the absence of natural predators. Therefore, I have zero problem with hunting deer if it's for food. I think it's way more ethical than buying prepackaged meat from factory farms in a grocery store.

Even harvesting wild fowl is ethical.

Killing and prepping one's own meat teaches the value of food.

I think vegans are privileged. They don't have to grow, gather or hunt their own food. They don't know anything about survival. Because they live in areas where they can by a variety of vegan food from around the world whenever they want, they can afford to be sentimental about Bambi.

In conclusion. I have empathy and compassion for animals. They are sentient beings who have emotions and feel pain. I have the greatest respect and gratitude for and all of nature. I am strongly opposed to needless cruelty and destruction. What about destroying rain forests for soy plantations and palm oil?) But that doesn't mean that I live in a fantasy that denies my human nature as an omnivore.

That being said, I totally respect people's individual values and choices as long as they aren't militant about it or talk nonsense about "murdering" animals. And I'll stand beside them when it comes to opposing the torture of animals.

[Lliam]

Thanks for the MHO
After rereading, I found typos and also realize that I could have done a better job of expanding on certain themes. Due to lack of time and space, it's kind of rambling.

[strateguy632]

well presented, also referenced pocahota video and avatar video. sweet.

[artgorgeous]

You are correct. People love animals as pets, and at the same time people love eating animals. Veganism is a chosen lifestyle and is more related to religious beliefs. To me it is sort of food celibacy. Its some kind of crooked religion wrapped under animal loving sauce. I think this is why people become vegans:

- they don't like meat because of psychological food disorder

- its trendy

- they think it will help them lose weight

- they like esoteric things

- they are religious and have some beliefs

- they think they love animals

- they think eating meat is dirty and it shortens life (which is not true)

- other million reasons

Problem with veganism is that some extreme vegan people do not want to accept who they are. We, humans don't like to put ourselves in the same line with animals. We think that we are a sort of other category of species, but we are not. We are also animals. Just because we have larger brain and are smarter that other species, does not put us on a different level. And not only we are simply animals, but we are predators. Our eyes like in many predators look straight to hunt prey, out teeth have fangs like all predators, our social structure is also predatorious.

To answer your question whether can vegans or non-vegans be animals lovers, i would say - yes, but without generalization. I mean - you can love your pet, for example your dog, who you raised and spent part of your life with, but at the same time, you can't say that you love first dog you see on a street, because you don't have any emotional attachment to it. There is no way to generalize this. You don't love animals just simply because they are animals. You love them because of specific emotional attachment. Otherwise the term "love" is not applicable. People who say - I love every animal on the planet use this word incorrectly. Instead of saying "love", they must say "like".

Imagine someone stuck in a situation without resources and food with their loving pet, for example - dog. How long will they be able to survive and who surrenders first? I don't know, but sorry, doggy, i love you, but you will have to sacrifice your life to save mine (otherwise your lovely pet will eat you).

[MysticDevice]

I am a meat eater and I absolutely can and do love animals. Especially dogs.

Animals also kill and eat other animals so I feel like the ethics question is kind of moot. There's a natural food chain that maintains a general balance to the ecosystem. Its only wrong to kill an animal if you don't use every part of it.

Killing a rhino for its horn: yeah thats wrong.
Killing a rhino to feed a village of 200 people: acceptable.

Like I said animals kill other animals all the time. Humans also aren't the only creatures that can damage or ruin ecosystems. Locusts, varmints, and invasive species do the same thing.

[strateguy632]

to mys, good points!

[GreatBigCircles]

Something that always upsets me is the wild horse purges they have to do in the US Midwest. Every so often they have to cull the herds to prevent them from overpopulation and destroying the ecosystem by overgrazing (because horses are an foreign species they don't have natural predators). However, rather than let people pay to hunt them or donate the meat to chartiy, they have to first hire people to kill thousands of them, and them dig giant mass graves to keep the wildlife from gorging on them and causing other species to over populate.

[PBandJ_Nerd]

I'd say yes. I've never been on a vegan diet because it'd be unhealthy for me. But I've been pescetarian, pollo-pescetarian, and now have to be on an omnivore diet. I changed diets because it was greatly needed for my health. But I still care about plants and animals all of the same, nothing changes just because I went back to eating meat. And I still love many of the veggie dishes I ate and try something new all of the time.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

No such thing as a vegan diet. Either a fully-vegetarian diet or a vegan ethical stance. There is more than one vegan stance of eating: You can eat just fruits! Just get enough sunlight, exercise, and don’t mix different types of fruits, like bananas (sweet) and tomatoes (acid).

[PBandJ_Nerd]

@HippieVeganJewslim Isn't fruitarianism also where they harvest fruits in a way that doesn't harm the plant as much?

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Can be. In ye site purefruitarian. org, ye writer harms no sentient beings, that is animals, plants, shrooms, seeds (though that one can be slightly difficult), etc. Many fruitarians eat ye seeds, but not Colas or Oi V WXY. I want to be like them.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Absolutely. I’ve eaten meat my whole life but roadkill makes me cry, I want to cradle little cute animals in my arms like a baby, etc. This is sort of a worrying question about your perception of meat eaters. There’s no thought about wanting to harm animals when eating meat for normal people. In fact a lot feel guilty.

[TooHot2Care]

this is a STUPID question.

I love people, I still punch people in the face in MMA and mentally dominate weak people who rub me the wrong way.

I love animals, I still have to eat, I like growing stronger and flesh from the corpses of animals I don’t know personally taste good. God, I haven’t been this angry at a question since that one time this girl said she sleeps with a top only and no bottoms…..

[worldscolide]

Vegans are mostly hypocrites and political activists. They push a lifestyle that has proven time and again to be super unhealthy for humans, They push it on babies, dogs, and cats as well.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Yes, in a very funny way. They may love some animals and eat others. Plants do have feelings and are sentient. That’s why I support fruitarianism. It actually works if it’s done correctly, so it’s not veganism that’s bad for many, but the lack of fruitarianism. Those so-called ‘vegans’ who don’t like/love animals, go to zoos, wear down, support animal-testing, etc are just vegetarians. There are ways to rid a flat of mosquitoes and roaches ethically.

[strateguy632]

we carnivores simply distinguished pets we can love pet dog or cat or bird while eating other birds. i love cats, but in a different way i love steak.

[AdithyaR]

I do think I'm an animal lover and I'm also non vegetarian.

[imawfulatusernames]

As a vegan I don’t believe it’s possible to not be vegan and genuinely have the same compassion and love for animals a vegan has.

[myTake Owner]

Not the same compassion as vegans but it will be completely invalid that they have 0 compassion. Most people don't enjoy the sight of torture and cruelty and yet they have to choose themselves over them.

[imawfulatusernames]

I agree

[Pohjolan]

Yes. We are just more picky about the animals we love.

[DarkLegacy]

Lol i am a animal lover and i eat meat everyday. Some animals matter more then others

[shades777]

I dont think they can. its an oxymoron

[myTake Owner]

Not at the same level as vegans but they definitely have compassion. That's what I wrote. Vagans are more compassionate but it does not apply that non vegans aren't at all.

[shades777]

Been a vegan 3 times, there's a disconnect, animals aren't equals to them, its food but bizarrely they don't view certain disney animals as food, subject an entire species to what can only be known as hell on earth, but let one dog get hurt and its a mobfest?
Not the same level? not even REMOTELY close.
People eat what like 10 million chickens a day, imagine if news said that was all dog and cat meat this entire time, people would probably throw up. So in my opinion its a resounding no, if you eat meat your incapable of being compassionate because your evil

[shades777]

I see that you want to give people the benefit of the doubt and from perspective on this particular topic I'll believe when I see it.

So many things need to change before we even get to that point as a species, heck as a whole we barely value the human life, look at the way we treat ourselves and each other,
Any Chess game can be won but this is long game.
We would have to tackle religion, laws, environment, slavery before we can even get to animals because all of them undermine the animal life, in a humancentric society animals don't hold importance and thats based on how things are now.

Your right its not black and white but the short answer was no, it is currently not possible, would be centuries until you can walk past a chicken and not have someone not have the urge to murder it and eat it in front of its family. Sounds simple to us because we're enlightened but for the rest of the world thats a 4 piece meal with a biscuit

[In_Trance]

Sure, I don't see why not

[Genie23]

I am one...

[LiamJHayden]

Yes.