What does getting married mean nowadays?

[Rei02]

Has marriage become less important and less valuable as time goes by?

Has it become more apparent that it is just a burden and an obligation towards society than an act where two people want to be together and form a family?

Could that be because society has allowed and "oficially approved" other type of relationships and lifestyles?

[hellionthesagereborn]

It means nothing now a days because society has allowed women (yes women) to not actually care about marriage. See in order for it to matter both parties have to dedicate themselves totally to the marriage, that is why its a binding contract because if you are given the opportunity to run away many people will (basically if you burn the bridge behind you, you have no choice but to move forward. This applied to marriage, once your married that's it, so you had to be careful who you married and you had to work your ass off to make sure it worked because their was no escape, you just had to fight onward for that relationship).

The problem today is women have no reason to do so, that is they have plenty of reasons to get married, but no real reason to stick around when things get tough (that's why 70% of divorces are filed by women (the most cited reason being "no fault"), 60% of male initiated divorces (about 18% in total) are filed due to the wifes infidelity (as you can see the reasoning for ending divorces are drastically different for men and women, for women "no fault" i. e. they got bored or "fell out of love"(impossible, love is sacrifice and work not a feeling) and for men it was the wifes betrayel).

So why is that? Well simply put investment (we have a bias that makes us value the things we invest in more). Men have to invest in a relationship, he has to provide for her, he has to protect her, he has to love her and if he fails in his duties she can divorce him and take his money take his home take his children. She on the other hand invests absolutely nothing. She is not bound by traditional values because they are "sexist" but that same rational doesn't apply to him. So he has his traditional responsibilities and she does not. He has to provide for her and she has to be provided for, he has to protect her and she has to be protected. If he expects her to cook and clean he is sexist, if she expects him to provide and protect this is him just "being a man". Does that sound like a respectable relationship? Of course not, he is a servant so she cannot see him as some one who is important, their is no investment on her part only his.

Their is also no consequence for her leaving, their is for him so while he has invested in her and thus sees her as valuable, she has not invested in him and does not see him as valuable, if he leaves their will be a punishment so he cannot do so frivolously, if she leaves she is rewarded with his money and no loss for her so she can leave for frivoulous reasons (ironic as the original argument against no fault divorce was that men would abandon their families yet we are seeing the exact opposite, women are the ones who are abandoning theirs.).

Then you factor in that a third of marriages are sexless and you are just asking for failure. Now obviously some men are not having sex with their spouses, this is true but we all know that the majority are almost certainly women. This is catastrophically damaging because your not provided intimacy for him and so he is sacrificing for nothing (that does not help his disposition towards her which just widens any fractures in the relationship). Its also damaging because sex breeds intimacy and emotional attachment so you are removing both affection and a means to bond thus weakinging the relationship further (and is also why sex was mandatory in a relationship, you have sex regardless of whether or not your in the mood because it made your partner happy and it strengthend your bond (it was a sacrifice (and as far as sacrifices go its a rather insignificant one)). Now telling a woman that is "sexist" and "sexual assault/rape" to expect your wife to have sex with you (yet for some reason its not sexist or theft when she expects you to keep paying the bills and putting a roof over her head.).

[hellionthesagereborn]

So a marriage with out investment or sacrifice is absolutely meaningless and the problem lies with women in that they are the ones who don't have to sacrifice nor invest (this is not to say the problem is INHERENT in women but rather due to the nature of men and women we are far more likely to allow this behavior and give leeway to women where we wouldn't for men (but if we did we would see men bailing out as well, its just society would never allow it.).

So if you want a marriage to be meaningful you have to do these things, you have to invest, you have to sacrifice and you have to be able to put them first (and they you) otherwise your not going to respect them nor the marriage.

[Lightning8]

It's easily less common. I think it's become less important to many people. But I think it's actually become more about two people loving each other, though the legalities around marraige have become more of a burden or risk. Before, marraige was so common you didn't think much of it if you saw people marrying, because it was more connected to the way of life. You could argue that it was more of an obligation to society in the past, and it's almost not at all an obligation to society today. But today, without the cultural influence to be conservative and get married, it seems to really hit home how difficult it is to find that isolated, powerful, perfect, reciprocal love that we have elected to be the sole reason for marraige. It's to the point where not only do much fewer people get married, but if they do, their love must be perfect. But then, divorce happens. So we increasingly lose even more faith in marraige, because it looks more and more fragile. And when even the union of marraige looks fragile, we lose more faith in the idea of love as something concrete and stable in our lives. And therefore, love itself appears less real and worthwhile. And now life is about whatever fix you can get, being whatever lifestyle you choose. I think society accepting other lifestyles plays a part, but the cause as I see it was when society itself devalued marraige.

[morimeme1]

Historically marriage has never been about love, it was about forming alliances, getting rid of the burden that is your daughter, surviving in society etc. Yet obviously it held tremendous traditional and religious value which has drastically decreased in modern times, I believe that now is the time when it is more about mutual love than ever before but I guess with that comes the uncomfortable feeling that many people now get - associating and conditioning their love with paperwork and government involvement. Plus the freedom of divorce has made it less stable.

[morimeme1]

But yeah, I would say the societal value is mostly lost (apart of some bias and dirty looks you might get from people who are suffering in their unfulfilling marriage with 4 kids) and has come down to the individuals, to you it may be very important but to the next person not at all. Just gotta evaluate and choose a partner accordingly.

[meesegoMoo]

Have you ever seen a happy marriage? I know most of them aren't, but the happiest people I've met have credited their marriage. To be fair they were all deeply religious, but at least some people decide to find someone they don't want to divorce.

[morimeme1]

Of course I have seen a happy marriage, never did I indicate that all marriages are bad marriages but it certaintly is not for everyone and not everyone will be able to find happiness in marriage lol

[Aiasis]

Marriage means you can adopt a child, make sure your significant other isn't stuck on life support because their family never want to let the dead go, family and friends can't rip you a way from each other, siblings can be raised under the same roof, children see their parents often, your spouse can't testify against you; if you get sued your spouse gets sued too. Marriage is the official " You're not alone and the Government will make sure your spouse sticks it out during your hard times based on how laws are made up. Through the good and bad times. "

[devilman666]

"The government will make sure your spouse sticks it out during tour hard times" so should divorce be illegal?

[GreenPenguin]

This is different depending on where you live in the world. In America, it's what basically everyone does within 2 years of meeting each other. I feel it's losing it's symbolism over there. It seems more like an obligatory thing you need to do instead of a symbol of never ending love.

If you go to the far east, it's more about the unification between two families, which is more true to the origins of marriage. However, in Europe, they seem to have embraced a newer style of what marriage is.
Over there it's something they do to show that they really do love each other. Couples tend to be together for much much longer before marrying in Europe.
A couple living together for years and having children together before marriage isn't abnormal.

[Rei02]

Yeah, cohabitation and forming a family out of wedlock has become more normal while in the past it was looked as a sin, a reason to be an outcast and leave you at your luck if you have problems.

Nowadays it doesn't matter as long as you follow the usual rules like having a birth certificate and an income.

[IamStag]

People should not get married until they know what it means. I had been dating with my wife for 7 years, moved together after the first year. Every year we asked ourselves why should we get married. After 7 years we had the right answer and we got married. I will never regret, and I think the so-called modern thinkers are simply stupid and have no idea of what they are talking. Usually the opinions and reasons they give is not even theirs.

[SimpleRhubarb]

What was your right answer?

[IamStag]

do you know the feeling when you are at the zoo, looking at a monkey, and suddenly you recognize that actually you are the monkey? it leads to that question. anyone reason with society, contracts, even religion, still think that the monkey is behind the cage.

[DonCachondo]

@IamStag what

[Rei02]

I think that those so-called modern thinkers and the young ones who don't want to marry is because they are afraid, afraid to lose the bachelor's comfortable life where the only number one is just oneself, like in childhood or teenage years but without parents.

[Hal2002]

The only place that marriage has become less important and less valuable, is with white women between 18 and 30. But that all changes when they become single mothers, and the reality of raising a child or children hit.

It is amazing how many women I know that where I can raise this child by myself it's me and my child against the world, a few years down the road they are looking for a man that is family orientated and wanting to settle down get married and have a family.

I have observed a lot of single moms with their kids, looking at married couples with their kids with envy. While they talk bs about how they are independent, and are perfectly happy to raise their kids alone.

[MrOracle]

I think that in a world where you can get a divorce on demand, marriage has much less meaning. I know people on their fourth marriage - who are you kidding?

The other problem is that the system financially rewards women for getting a divorce, which is why 77% of divorces are initiated by women.

I would very much like a lifetime relationship, and to be together every day because you choose to, and because you can't imagine wanting anyone else. But I see no reason to get the state involved. In the 21st century, marriage is just a very poor business contract enforced by the state, with men taking sole responsibility for its end, regardless of the situation. I'm smarter than that, and even if I wasn't, I've seen the effects first hand.

[SimpleRhubarb]

Marriage is losing its value because people are getting divorced so frequently. Some people believe people in the past didn’t get divorced because of societal pressure, and the current high divorce rate is more accurate. Same people, like myself, think our consumerist society makes us more willing to throw things away.

I would love to be married one day. Even if I marry the person I’m dating now, it will be many years, though.

[Rei13]

Honestly I think it depends on the person. Marriage, to me, is being with a person that I can accept all of the good and bad parts of them and they’re able to accept me for how I am too. That we make each other the best possible versions of ourselves and be able to work together as a team. I just want to spend my life with the person I love and where we’re able to support each other and also still have a sense of self

[startingfitness]

The original concept of marriage is good.
A man protects , takes care of and provides for a woman while she gives him control of her sexuality in return. aka, she takes care of his sexual needs and bears his children and will be loyal to him.
this also connects the two families.

nowadays marriage is a legal clause by which a man is pretty much at the mercy of a woman and risks losing his finances , children and property to the woman or the system. there is no incentive for men to get married.

[Jamie05rhs]

For me, marriage means I am making a commitment to that person and want to be with them forever. We are permanently connected and bound together. It's also a prerequisite for sex, because I don't want to have sex with someone unless I know that they truly love me and that they've chosen me as their partner for life.

Incidentally, the values I hold are also in line with my religion, as I am a Christian. And if you've studied Christianity you'll know that most of the things that are taught are guidelines meant to be followed in order for you to benefit and not suffer harm. God wants the best for each one of us; he doesn't give us rules to oppress us or hold us down.

So marriage is very important to me, as I am someone who does wish to find a soulmate and give and receive romantic love. That is one of my goals in life.

[JShef2444]

👍👍 Same.

[Jamie05rhs]

Cool. :)

[JustJen]

Marriage is less important. Today it's more of two things: a festive occasion for friends and family to come together, and a practical thing when it comes to inheritance laws and such. And I think that's good. Nobody has to get married anymore unless they really want to.

[devilman666]

Marriage has become antiman, so yes it has lost a lot of value to men. A lot of women still value it though, because for a woman, marriage means security, if they split up, she gets alimony, she gets child support, she gets the house. For a man, marriage is a risk, women initiate the majority of divorces, and if you don't have a prenup then you're screwed, though even if you do have a prenup, there is a good chance it will be voided by the court anyways.

[Ianto]

It seems to have become more about the wedding than about any real long term commitment. The "value" used to be about security and protection from social stigma. Now that unmarried mothers are accepted, and people don't starve without a partner, why would you bother?
Answer: We are sold the consumer wedding, where a year's income can be blown on a white dress. Go figure.

[Anoniemus]

I’ve read that less people are getting married and it’s because millennials are choosing to marry later when they’re well established. Those who are lower income are choosing cohabitation which is horrible on relationships.

Apparently marriage is becoming a status symbol which is only for those who are financially secure and educated, meaning not for everyone. This wouldn’t be right since it is discriminatory.

[Anoniemus]

And to all the men who think marriage isn’t worth it for men: studies show otherwise. Marriage benefits men more than it does women.

[devilman666]

Prove it?

[Anoniemus]

Research yourself?

[akihon]

Marriage only benefits men if that marriage works otherwise it's a horror show of epic proportions for men, lost custody of children, alimony, child support payments that can be spent without any accounting. Men having to pay the legal fees for their ex-wife. Being open to abuse by the wife, studies have also shown that men incur more abuse and more frequently than women and more women are likely to start violent incidents so what benefits are there exactly because the study you referenced qualified that the benefits only exist where the marriage works and the both have similar ideas about marriage and family. Other than that there is absolutely no benefit and all the responsibility of marriage and all of the fallout if it's goes wrong. Given that 50% end in divorce, 70% of that number started by the wife, who within two years is remarried it seems that women are way more likely to use marriage as an excuse to hold out until something better comes along

[Anoniemus]

@akihon That’s called divorce, not marriage. And divorce rates are dropping, likely because people are getting married later.

[devilman666]

@Anoniemus if you don't have evidence then you're making an argument from ignorance, just because I can't prove you wrong doesn't mean you're right.

It's like me saying "women initiate 100% of divorces", to which you asked for evidence, and I responded, "go research it yourself". That isn't an argument, it is you trying to avoid giving your reasoning.

[Anoniemus]

There isn’t a lack of evidence. I’m telling you to research it yourself. It would be ignorant to assume that what I’m stating is based on ignorance because I am telling you to simply do your own research instead of, in my opinion, being lazy and wanting someone to provide the information for you.

Do it yourself.

[devilman666]

The research I've done has pointed towards marriage being more beneficial for women, mainly because of divorce, women benefit far more in divorce, and marriage itself offers little to no benefits. Therefore since divorce is part of marriage, women benefit more. I don't actually see anything that benefits men in marriage or divorce.

I didn't say it's based on ignorance, I said it's an argument from ignorance, meaning it's a fallacy because you didn't provide any evidence that it's true, but you tell me I should assume it's true unless I can prove it false.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

[devilman666]

For example: my research has shown that men benefit less and have more risks tied to marriage when compared with wwomen. If you want evidence then I suggest you use Google because the evidence is everywhere, you'd have to be blind to not see it.

That's an argument from ignorance, and it's the same thing you're doing:
An argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false.

[startingfitness]

marriage doesn't benefit men more than women, its the other way around.
and the risks of marriage for men are far higher than for women. in fact a woman can exploit a man while married while a man can't escape.

[akihon]

The divorce rate is dropping because the marriage rate is dropping, dumb ass, of all people you proclaim to be anonymous but can't even understand basic stats that's poor and you either need to go back to school or ask those guys to remove your hacker badge truly pathetic

[Anoniemus]

@startingfitness Research it yourself.

[Anoniemus]

@akihon Hey cuck. Your lack of comprehension is hilarious. My whole post basically said that less people were getting married but there are additional reasons as to why the divorce rate is dropping aside from that. A geriatric loser trying to insult someone. Hilarious. :)

[Anoniemus]

Your research isn’t research but confirmation bias if you’re saying that none of what you came across showed that men benefited. Again, it’s not an argument from ignorance just because I’m not providing you the information. Seek it out.

[startingfitness]

I did. the statistics and facts prove otherwise. your argument is as stupid as believing the earth is flat

[startingfitness]

why do men have to pay child support to women?
why do men have to pay alimony to women?
why is it that the women gets an unreasonable amount of the mans wealth in a divorce?

get with the times woman. marriage is beneficial for women, not men. its a universally accepted fact.

[Anoniemus]

There are facts that say otherwise. Every “fact” that I’ve seen that reports that men don’t benefit are from extremely biased sources. The rest of your statement is moronic and fallacious (because I don’t agree with you, you’re stupid).

[Anoniemus]

@startingfitness You are taking about DIVORCE. Not MARRIAGE. Two separate things.

[devilman666]

@anoniemus you're hilarious, and it is an argument from ignorance. "Your research isn't research but confirmation bias if you're saying that none of what you came across showed that men benefitted.", right back at you then, if your research finds that men have benefits then that is not research, it's confirmation bias.

This is basically you saying, "you just don't know what you're talking about", which is only good for making yourself feel superior.

[startingfitness]

oh really, which facts?
and no the facts aren't biased. ever heard of statistics?

my statement is the general statement. im not disagreeing with you, you are disagreeing with facts. by the way, you do realize that you can only get divorced if you get married right?
and divorce is a risk factor for men while it is a benefit factor for women.

that alone makes marriage worse for men.

[devilman666]

"Every 'fact' that I've seen that reports that men dont benefit are from extremely biased sources" like what? What sources? What facts?

How about I call your sources biased too and then we can sit her throwing names at each other because you refuse to offer evidence for your claims?

"Because I dont agree with you, you're stupid", right back at you dumbass.

Finally, as an example of how problematic you're being, imagine if I said, "my research shows that child birth hurts men more than it does women", and refused to give any evidence, I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed too.

[Anoniemus]

@devilman666 I did but as I said to another on here, they were from biased sources.

No it’s not. I expect you to provide a piece of evidence for everything you say on this site from now on which I know you don’t.

And making assumptions. Nothing new I’ve seen from you.

[devilman666]

@anoniemus what assumption did I make? Stop making shit up lol

[Anoniemus]

@startingfitness Everyone should know that research has a bit bias that is inescapable. But the “research” from where I’ve read are enough to be thrown out and manipulated unjustly.

You don’t have an argument except for divorce. Marriage and divorce are treated separately because not all marriages go through divorce. They should not be treated as all-in-one.

You have anything else to say or are you literally just wasting my time?

[startingfitness]

@devilman666 " my research shows that child birth hurts men more than it does women"
she is basically saying the same thing.

she just doesn't have any smart arguments and no sources to show us.

and its funny that she claims biased sources when (if there actually is any source that claim men benefit more) her source is most likely some extreme feminazi article

[Anoniemus]

@devilman666 You are severely lacking reading comprehension or are only selectively reading.

That stupid comment was a comment on his judgment of my argument being similar to flat-earthers. I didn’t call him stupid: I just said that the rest of his spiel was moronic namely because it had nothing to do with what’s being talked about.

Sad.

[startingfitness]

divorce is an outcome of marriage. not all marriages end in divorce, only like 40% of them. which makes it a risk factor. which means men are at a disadvantage.

I got plenty of arguments if you are willing to use your brain and actually argue.

[startingfitness]

basically you are admitting that your "research" is bs.

well, I got another one.
In the uk , it is now illegal to prevent your partner accessing your bank account.
now statistically, in a couple, who earns more on average?
you can look up the stats. its men.

now, like I said before, who has the advantage and disadvantage financially in a marriage with the information I just provided. by the way I don't have the exper to link the article, but I can tell the keyword if you would like

[devilman666]

The only thing that's sad is you.

Alright, here's my research, cause I'm done talking to you.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981792/
"Recent studies evaluating the interaction between marital status and gender have reported that the health effects of marriage are equally distributed among men and women.5–7 Nonetheless, the perception marriage only benefits men persists, resistant to current realities and compounded by improper analysis."

www.health.harvard.edu/.../marriage-and-mens-health
"A Harvard study reported that socially isolated men have an 82% higher risk of dying from heart disease, compared with men who have strong interpersonal relationships. And the New England Research Institute reported that 66% of men rely on their wives for their primary social supports"

There are health benefits for men, but it's mostly because without a wife a man is socially isolated due to the way our society is designed. If society didn't emotionally ostracise single men then this wouldn't be a benefit. Finally, you have to take divorce into account when you go over marriage because around half of all marriages end in divorce, and statistics show that men get the short end of the stick in divorce.

[Anoniemus]

It does not matters. They are not synonymous They are different procedures.

[startingfitness]

you have no arguments, nor sources. if you don't have sources, you should put forward an argument. you have neither.
Fail.

I will be back if you can produce any arguments supporting your statements or sources

[Justin_Forthekill]

I don't want to rush into marriage, but I do want to get married. As well as all the legal stuff, it's a symbol. A declaration to the world and to each other that "This person is my partner, this person is my life". But if someone doesn't want to get married, there's nothing wrong with that. Marriage only means what you personally want it to mean.

[ecfresh]

Unfortunately society values marriage less which really hurts all of us because it means more children are not being raised in 2 parent households and the stats on those kids’ success are not bueno.

[blackheartrum]

Well I got divorced just last year so I'm a bit bitter about ever getting married again. It clearly didn't mean shit to her because she was cheating. It meant a lot to me leading up to that, but I doubt I'll ever put that kind of trust into someone again. Who knows though.. I hadn't ever planned on getting married, but things changed and it happened

[Unit1]

"in the name of love" getting the governments official approval of you both being in love and paying tons of money for it.

and men lose it all. Especially when they divorce, then his assets will be legally robbed, sending him straight into poverty long term.

[VikingWarLord]

Marriage is a PONZI SCAM meant to deprive you of your hard earned money for some stupid ass wedding day and reception along with the honeymoon.

The Marriage industry gets rich off suckers and then the divorce industry gets rich off those same suckers.

It's because we were never taught that we are NOT monogamous creatures. We are POLY CREATURES BY DEFAULT. Trying to go against your 'innate human nature' is a setup for failure EVERY DAMN TIME.

[slatyb]

Whatever it is, it's not a Ponzi scheme. That's a scam where high returns are promised and old investors are paid with new investors money and the creator lives off what they can skim. When there are no more new investors it collapses and the last people in lose it all.

[PetrovaFire92]

They don't take the time to get to know the person before they get married. That's the problem nowadays.

[cskyy55]

Marriage is absolutely terrifying to me.
It didn’t use to be, then I got cheated on, and now it’s so so so hard to think of a forever with someone and it solely be that person, and loving THAT ONE person when one day out of the blue they’ll find someone better or anything remotely like that, and then having all those issues and trying to resolve them just for them to end in divorce? No.

[jman2020]

Basic knowledge here. Not everyone is a cheater. If you look at everyone as your ex that cheated, you will never have a working relationship with anyone. So, until you get your head out of your ass and start believing in reality, you shouldn't even try to be in a relationship.
You need to find a friend who can help you understand not everyone is the same. If dude cheated on you, he was a coward anyway and karma will get to him when he least expects it.

[jman2020]

Also, don't give anyone a reason to look for someone better.

[cskyy55]

@jman2020 No, no. I completely understand and agree. I suppose I should've made it more specific to women or men who have experienced infidelity.
I apologize, I know there’s a great bunch of men and women who are trustworthy. It’s just hard to find them sometimes

[jman2020]

True

[Beautiful_Confusion]

It means what it always meant, two people are committed to each other. They realize that in order to protect each other financially, and define the status of children, our government requires registration. Marriage is the commitment. The wedding, the celebration. The rest is paperwork.