Is marrying for romance primarily just a part of western culture?

[Anonymous]

Growing up in the united states, I've always only heard of marriage as being the result of romance. However, I've discovered that immigrants from other cultures such as the carribean, africa, some parts of asia don't primarily get married for romance. By this, I don't mean that they're marrying a rich person for money. They marry so they can have a family / children, security, and financial stability. Two household incomes are better off than 1 income. They aren't as picky as westerners when it comes to selecting a spouse. Their mentality is that having being married and being able to take care of each other is better than dying alone with nobody to watch out for them. They also tend to prioritize having children.

In the US, people are proud to not have any children. Americans see dying alone as better than being married to someone for the sake of stability and security.

Is america's divorce rate of 50% , entirely attributed to this way of thinking?

[Miristheiss]

A bit yes. Keep in mind, marriage and family and children proceeded just fight... until the late 1960's and early 70's.

The birth control pill came out and sex without getting pregnant became a thing. The sexual revolution came after that and the relationship between men and women and the stability of the family has never been the same.

Feminism came on strong after that. Women were shamed for being moms who supported the husband and governed the home and took care of children. They were told they were slaves and that they couldn't trust or rely on men... they had to be the men too and that careers and making money was their only best bet. Generations of girls are told this and now you have generations of women who value a career over a family and marriage.

Lastly, the countries default norms and spiritual background were also abandoned in the 60's. A faith in God and church and the belief that God ordained sex to be for a husband and wife was cast aside and the belief became that you can pretty much have sex anytime, with anyone, have endless new partners... so the stability of marriage and family went away. Women didn't hold sex for AFTER the man committed to her, men no longer need to marry to GET the girl so you have generations of men F-ing every thing in sight, women F-ing everything in sight and valuing leaving the home and working and not having kids.

Independent women. Independent from what? From men.

Now, since neither sex "NEEDS" the other, men get tons of free, no commitment sex, women have careers and pay their own bills... we just WANT a mate but since we don't need the mate our standards for what mate we'll take is so over the top too unrealistic that no one will ever be happy or content. Everyone has also slept with so many people our bonding ability and ability to fall in love is so messed up.

Romance has been stressed in the west for a long time but it wasn't until the pill, feminism and the rejection of morality over the last 50 years that things have fallen apart.

[ArrowheadSW]

@Miristheiss Have you ever talked to someone who is like 75 or 80 now, who was in their twenties in the 1960's? Man what they say about that sexual revolution just blows my mind. Like eating dinner in a restaurant and then having sex with the waitress in her apartment when her shift was over, etc. It was totally rampant. One night stands were as common as going out for a beer.

[Asker]

men can't afford to support families nowadays in our modern era anyways. it doesn't matter if feminism came into play or not.

[Asker]

i don't think it has anything to do with sexual revolution. i think that people in the old days had different values. they didn't see marriage as a romantic union. they saw it as a form of stability. often times, women married for money back then because they didn't have the means to earn a decent living on their own. women didn't go to school or work careers back then.

[Asker]

women had to stay in non romantic marriages just so they can get their next meal from their husbands.

[Miristheiss]

I see.
So, things were bad then.
Men and women wete unhappy.
These are good now. Men and women are so content, happy and fulfilled now.
Hook up culture, having endless casual sex in your 20's instead getting married is an improvement.
All of the single, childless women in their 30's on antidepressants is faulty data.
Good to know.
Sex with your spouse... for life... family bad.
Sex with 25 different people... no family good.
Glad we solved that.

[Asker]

@miristheiss

Americans are the unhappiest they've been in 50 years, poll finds
Just 14% of U. S. adults say they're very happy.

h ttps://www. nbcnews. com/politics/politics-news/americans-are-unhappiest-they-ve-been-50-years-poll-finds-n1231153

[Asker]

Single women without children are often happier and healthier than men and married women with children, research suggests.

h ttps://www. psychologytoday. com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-many-single-women-without-children-are-so-happy

[goaded]

@Miristheiss Women in the US weren't allowed to have their own bank accounts without the permission of their husbands until the the 1970s. Things are much better now.

Asker's links, clickable:

www.nbcnews.com/.../americans-are-unhappiest-they-ve-been-50-years-poll-finds-n1231153

www.psychologytoday.com/.../why-many-single-women-without-children-are-so-happy

[Billlewis]

I think marriage is, in some ways, a relic of a bygone era. Centuries ago, people had to form families, to deal with the hardship of trying to survive in the wilderness. Nowadays, everyone is looking for quick, convenient results that are easily gotten out of when they get tired of them.

[Screenwriter]

Romantic love is often fleeting: based on looks or flash in the pan Love/Lust. When people don't take the time to know someone well, meaning knowing them for more than a year and seeing them in all sorts of situations, emotional, financial etc.. they often are disappointed in the person when the flush of "romance" dusts off.

But arranged marriages have an advantage: Families that are compatible set up connections for their children. Both people want to have children, have similar values and outlooks on money, etc...

If Western folk spent more time discussing finances, likes and dislikes, housekeeping, children, travel, education, investments-- what many folk would call the more boring aspects of life... their might be more marital success. These boring aspects are the infrastructure of long-term relationships. What do couples do MORE of? Wash dishes or have sex? There's tons more clothes washing, housecleaning and dish washing than ANY kind of sexual congress among couples.

Compatibility is key. Does your spouse like his family? Does he like yours? Do you like his? What happens when you hit a rough patch? Is divorce the only option? What do you think about counseling? Does your spouse have any terrible habits? Smoking? Drinking too much? Depression? Mania? Knowing someone over time gives each person a window on what their relationship can be. Knowledge is always power.

[MJackson1234]

Yeah that's the movies dear. Unfortunately the reality of the situation is especially in this current climate "I want a high value man" "I settled for him because I am getting older"...

Immigrants tend to value families. Families are their health care and retirement funds, their college funds, etc. They depend on themselves because they are not provided with social services. Best relationships are made when you go through the hard times together. So they grow up with that mentality.

[Asker]

single people tend to suffer a lot when they get into their older years. they don't have family or a spouse to care for them so they end up lonely neglected and abused in nursing homes. Or they get homeless if they ever lose their jobs or fail to pay rent. while married people can have their spouses help pay the bills. the benefits of marriage don't come until you get older.

[MJackson1234]

That's the biggest lie ever. My parents married young. I watched as I grew up. I watched how they went through money problems, infertility issues because of complications of birth control, losing a loved one, etc. You have this person that got your back and went through shit with you and then celebrated happy times. Momma got mad and daddy made her happy because he didn't want her diabetes to act up. He gets a bonus first thing he does he buys her something nice because he remembers her saying I don't need anything when he was broke. Dad passed away from cancer saying the only thing he is worried about is leaving her by herself. This love that you imagine doesn't come from happy moments. It comes from going through the bad times and the hard times together. It comes when both of you build something together. That's usually at the younger age. But now with this culture by the time you get married you are damaged goods with too many luggage carrying around into your relationship.

[DaveJord]

So I grew up in the USA, so all I can say is that yes its a popular believe that marriage is supposed to be about romance and love.

But most people have a distorted viewpoint and what love really is, verses what the think it is supposed to be.

Do I think other cultures have a more pragmatic approach to love and marriage... the answer is yes.

pragmatic - dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.

Americans are too complicated these days, we are not pragmatic all any more and especially when comes to love and our relationship... and how it effects or children. Bottom line being, womans liberation within the United States destroyed the traditional concept of what healthy family environment should be.

Woman used to look and seek out a good man, someone who could provide for and support a family. As a man, I never once thought I could raise children on my own, and that thought had nothing to do with my income or ability to financially provide for my children. I just always knew that a child needs a positive female role model in their lives to provide for their emotional and general well being. Most men understand this when it comes to raising children that it is essential to the welfare of the children to have a mother in their lives.

But too many women these days, post woman liberation, seem to believe they can do it all themselves and they don't need a man. To the most part that is true for the woman, but at what cost to the kids?

[SawerBrown]

@DaveJord I agree with you the deteioration of the traditional family unit has caused the divorce rate and lack of commitment to increase but I think. it actually goes further back then the women's liberation movement which definitely cemented it in place. It goes back to war time when women were employed to build war equipment and they got used to the idea of going out to work rather then being happy to keep a home and raise a family tge desire for two cars happened then snd two bank accounts snd many mire things that destroyed what couples had and enjoyed with each other. The wife was out on girls night out instead of a date night and that contributed to the guy finding his 20 year old secretary a lot more fun then his wife. The kids started wearing a house key around their necks and let themselves into an empty home after school making them more independent long before they had the maturity gir that. The list goes on but you has it basically covered.

[Asker]

@SawerBrown @davejord

you're acting as if women are your slaves where you can keep them captive, lock them in the kitchen for the rest of her life just so she can stay married to you. This is a form of abuse. If being abusive is the only way you can stay married, it means you don't know how to treat and take care of a woman. No woman who is happy with her man would need to be locked up prisoner in a house just to stay married.

[Asker]

nowadays, men can't even support their wives and kids on their own. Husband need their wives to work!!!

[SawerBrown]

I don't require a second income to keep a wife happy, comfortable or satisfied. No need to lock her bin ghe kitchen axni eill probably do most of the cooking. She's definitely not a slave and can go out to buy whatever clothes she desires but will be there for our kids in stesdnof strangers at daycare or a nanny we really don't know. She can have s cleaning crew come in to take the burden off bock her while dhe raises our child. I trust the house to others but not our children.

[Asker]

@SawerBrown

housewives are on the decline because inflation has been surpassing wage growth over the past 50 years. And life will only continue to become more expensive as time goes on.

[SawerBrown]

Maybe for you but I don't have this problem.

[Asker]

@SawerBrown

im sure you do. its just that misogynists like you enjoy pretending so you can keep up your women locking up ideologies.

no man who can keep his wife happy would ever feel the need to lock her up in order to keep a marriage.

[JustMeL120]

Lol it's because many men are like an extra child for women. They are needy entitled. Women want to have children but they don't want the man. Unfortunately you can't have one without the other.

[Scootergirl111]

@DaveJord @sawerbrown First off, way to mansplain. Second off, the women’s liberation movement formed partially because women became dissatisfied with their “sphere of influence” as it was called of home and children. The feminine mystique written by Betty Friedman was a monumental book about this. Men were the ones to blame for stifling women until they burst from their confines. The war effort and Rosie the riveter were important to American history. To have a healthy family is important, and I believe that it is beneficial to the children to have both parents present in their lives. But really? you blame WOMEN for leaving children? Ik there are special circumstances, but the majority is single MOTHERS. Where then, are the men who treat us as equals, show their daughters their worth, support their wives in what they do and love because THAT is a healthy family. I, as a woman, am outraged by these comments. You, you both have single-handedly placed the blame on women. You have objectified us, referred to our only role to be mother and housewife. What the heel was that comment about “finding a Secretary more fun than his wife” because she went out with her girls rather than him. I am not a feminist, but I know my worth. People like you are truly what’s wrong with society. People like you who use women and put them down. You are partially why there is divorce. You are the reason for oppression. I am disgusted by you. How can you even call yourselves men.

[marrk]

@Scootergirl111 Amen sis

[DaveJord]

This baseless comment that is not founded on anything I said... but thanks for sharing.

I love it when people only want to see what they want to see, and not even form an informed opinion.

[DaveJord]

@scootergirl111 It appears to me you're a sexiest. Thanks for sharing.

[Scootergirl111]

Says u

[Asker]

@davejord

No wonder why your ex wife was so dissatisfied with someone as immoral as you. If i were married to you, i wouldn't be happy either.

You and your woman locking up ideologies

[DaveJord]

Judge much... you must be one of the truly chosen.

[DaveJord]

This what I love about the god types... as you have just proven, they do some of the most ungodly shit. Like its very christen of you to insult me and call me names... but that's okay god bless you.

There is no hierocracy in anything I said.

[Asker]

@davejord

didn't you tell us in a past posting that you divorced your ex wife because she refused to get a job after the kids were grown so there's nothing left for her to do around the house?

Now you're insisting that all women should stay home and have no right to a career?

It seems like the root of it all is just you like bashing the female gender

[Scootergirl111]

Honestly I’m finding it really entertaining for you guys to try to defend your selves and your obviously sexist opinions <3 thanks for the laughs

[DaveJord]

@Scootergirl111 Ahhhh... the first one to through the sexiest accusation into the mix... is usually the sexiest one.

[DaveJord]

Nope, you must be confused. I she stole money from me. I bought her 500,000 dollar house and was giving he 5,000 a month expense account. She moved her dad in and they conspired to steal money from me. So I cut her expense account to 2,500 a month since she was already stealing the other half from me.

So she divorced me thinking she would get more out of the divorce.. which actually didn't work out for her, she got less. And ended up playing back all the stolen money... which actually was just accredited to me as support paid.

But yes she refused to get a job... with her master's degree, that I paid for. So yes, that was point of annoyance. So as soon as the kids turned 18 it was time to unload her.

[Asker]

@davejord

there is no such thing as stealing under marriage. Any income you make is also your wife's income. Any money in the bank you have is legally also your wife's money.

[But yes she refused to get a job... with her master's degree, that I paid for. So yes, that was point of annoyance. So as soon as the kids turned 18 it was time to unload her.]

funny how contradicting it is. you don't want women to work. so why should she get a job?

you're here bashing the independent strong career woman

At the end of the day, I think that you are just a misogynist and a sexist. Not a surprise your wife divorced you.

[DaveJord]

So when you make agreements with your wife and she agreess, then spends money or hides money from you its not stealling?

How convenient. So as a man if I told my wife I would give her $1,500 a month and then I don't and I take that money and spend it on myself... is that stealing?

In this case she moved her dad in and told me he would provide 1,500 a month or 1/2 the cost of the mortgage to live there. So I paid the whole mortgage and he paid her the money and she never gave to me the money to help pay for the mortgage.

The whole deal in buy her the dream home "she" always wanted was that dad would pay half the mortgage. But she had kept all the money. So in the divorce I got my half of that money back. because if you want to pretend, she did not steal it... the courts official ruling was that I was entitled to half of the money he gave her, as undisclosed income she failed to report, and she was responsible for paying back her half of the mortgage for the house she lived in while I lived in an RV trailer.

So you want to split hairs over BS, so shut it. Classic tactic by those who have not reasonable argument to make.

[Asker]

@davejord

what stealing? there are plenty of husbands out there who give their own credit cards to their wives so they can spend it. There are plenty of husbands who literally hand over their paychecks to their wives. The fact that you are only willing to give your wife an "allowance" proves a shit ton about how you feel about your wife. This fact alongside with your misogynistic comments about women proves it all. You view women as property. she's not a fucking kid where you can give a few dollars to every month just to keep her satisfied.

Your wife probably lost her love for you long time ago after finding out how ugly you truly were on the inside. I would too if I were her.

[Asker]

lets face it... you didn't marry your wife so you can take care of her forever. you paid her a few dollars every month just so that you can have a maid do your laundry, wash your underwear, cook your dinner, clean your room.

[DaveJord]

Wow... I feel sorry for you. You obviously know nothing about me. I do sincerely feel sad for you. But through you ronw ingnorance you have no idea, how unfit of a spokes person you are for the woman.

This a very sad showing of exactly what men use as an example as to why women are the problem. And it sad to me, because individuals like you are the problem. But act as if you speak for a broader community of woman, when honestly you only speak for yourself.

Not I have said was intended to come from a place of malious or anger... be you attack me personally with no reason to do so. That does not make you right, or a better person than me... actually, it reflects very poorly on you.

I feel super sad for you... because you don't even see it or know it.

[Asker]

@davejord

there's nothing to you but only malice and anger. Because no man who is content with his life will dedicate his life to bashing women over the internet.

Plenty of men treat their wives better than you. My own mother and father share the same bank account. Both have equal access to the money. Most married americans share bank accounts. Its not uncommon for a husband working a full time job to hand over his paycheck or credit card to his stay home wife so she can buy food, pay all the bills, go get herself a manicure, buy herself some nice clothes. This is called "taking care of your wife". Something you don't want to do.

your selfishness speaks volumes about how you feel about your wife already. And chances are your wife knows who you REALLY are which is why she lost her love for you.

[DaveJord]

And malice or angery? And there are not plenty of woman that retreat their husband better than you have here with me?

And I did not share bank accounts, my ex-wife did not drive new cars, have nice clothes, 26 pairs of prescription eyeglasses, 50 pair of shoes, expensive houses... and oh she never worked. She was kept woman... because that is what she wanted. I bout her 580,00-dollar house and gave a 5,000-amount expense account. On top of the 2,600 monthly mortgage that I paid for her, when I did not even live in the same house as her. Because I made over 200,000 grand a year working a contract job in Washington D. C and refused to move to Virginia so I bought her a house in California... and she steals and cheats on me.

You know nothing about me... you are just one of those types that feel you are intitled to everything you think you deserve.

[DaveJord]

Oh, by the way as I did all this for my wife, and cheats on me and steals from... I lived in camper trailer in Virgina. She had a five bedroom, 4,000 square foot house, on 5 acres of pristine California foothills property.

F off you over zealous sexist, anit - man... vile hate mongering... witch.

[Asker]

@davejord

What kind of a man gives his wife 1,500 a month if he makes 200,000 a year? if you make 200,000 a a year, you can very well give your wife way more than that. you just don't want to. because you have no interest in taking care of your wife. you just want to pay her pennies just for a maid at home. In fact, even a miad would cost more than 1,500 a month.

Secondly, you don't have to lie that your wife has 50 pairs of shoes. Because there is no way she can buy 50 pairs of shoes with just 1,500 a month.

[In this case she moved her dad in and told me he would provide 1,500 a month or 1/2 the cost of the mortgage to live there. So I paid the whole mortgage and he paid her the money and she never gave to me the money to help pay for the mortgage.]

She doesn't have to give you the money. Because she already knows that you have her best interests at heart. 1,500 a month is NOTHING. Especially if she has to buy groceries and cook for the family. Even a maid makes more money than 1,500 a month. She didn't steal from you. You CHEATED her for so many years so now she's trying to recoup her money.

This is what happens when money matters more than love.
A good husband who loves his wife would let his wife enjoy the money and pay for the life she wants to live. When you're in love, her happiness matters more than yours. You DIDN'T LOVE YOUR WIFE.

[Asker]

She doesn't have to give you the money. Because she already knows that you *****DO NOT**** have her best interests at heart. 1,500 a month is NOTHING. Especially if she has to buy groceries and cook for the family. Even a maid makes more money than 1,500 a month. She didn't steal from you. You CHEATED her for so many years so now she's trying to recoup her money.

[Asker]

[Oh, by the way as I did all this for my wife, and cheats on me and steals from... I lived in camper trailer in Virgina. She had a five bedroom, 4,000 square foot house, on 5 acres of pristine California foothills property.]

yea... another lie... if she lived in such wealth, then why would you only give her tiny peanuts for money?

wealthy men can buy their wives nice cars, the latest fashion, maids, give her credit cards... why can't you give her that?

[jennifer_bloom]

One thing is people in North America view marriage as a vacation or car and not as a responsibility. People who invest in their skills, their jobs, and their fitness, and are caring and kind have no difficulty finding people to date. I’ve met many people who want things they did not earn, like one guy wanted a virgin girlfriend when he slept with strangers every month. I know other guys who want slim girls that wear make up and get their hair done when they are lazy and ugly and fat and don’t even practice loyalty to the girls that choose them.

[OlderAndWiser]

I don’t know. I’ve never lived anywhere other than the US. Most of what I know about other cultures comes from the MSM and I don’t trust anything they say.

[Avicenna]

Marrying for love isn't just Western, at least not anymore

[Asker]

you might not believe it... but people from the carribean or africa don't marry primiarly for romance. I"ve met a lot of the us immigrants from those countries.

[Avicenna]

Well, I wasn't saying that EVERYONE is (not even everyone in the West is), just that it's not just a Western thing anymore.

[Asker]

What im saying is... most people in other cultures still aren't marrying primarily for romance. A lot of carribean immigrants who live in the ghettos marry each other for the sake of stability and security. I go to school with a lot of them.

[Summeroflove]

Marrying someone is very special. Many marry for the wrong reasons unfortunately though which is sad.

[JustMeL120]

Tbh even if it's for the wrong reasons at first people still choose someone they think they will get on with and be able to love eventually. Even in Muslim countries where arrenged marriages still happen often. The girl are often able to give their say in it. Love is a choice tbh.

[Summeroflove]

@JustMeL120 yes love is a choice. You can choose to love someone even if you’re not in love. I agree 💯.

[JustMeL120]

Sometime it's not a choice actually. There is someone I have been trying so hard to stop loving but I feel like I will love him until I die.

[Summeroflove]

@JustMeL120 well. God says to love everyone

[HawkPerception]

Marrying for romance is the way it should be. In developing countries, they are behind the times in their philosophies, minus all this progressive nonsense that Gen Z or later is coming up with (LGBT, cancel culture, non-binary shit). They don't think about happiness as deeply. Imagine your parents telling you to be with someone you don't know and have never met in your life, because they have heard good things about them (they have a good job and income and their peers say that they're a nice and grounded person). Then you marry that person and realize you have no chemistry with them no matter how much you talk. You end up miserable your whole life, other than maybe raising a family. The difference between western and eastern culture is people in eastern culture marry and stay in a marriage out of duty and discipline, whereas in western culture they seek chemistry and romance.

The reason for the high divorce rate is due to many factors. Social media and dating apps is a big one. Everyone feels like they can find someone else to date very easily because they have tons of options literally at their fingertips. You could be taking a shit and swiping on those options out of boredom nowadays. Back in the past that was not how it is. You had to go out, socialize, hopefully bump into someone that you have chemistry with and put time and effort into seeing them and communicating with them. You have to realize that only 30 years ago, texting people was not really a thing. The amount of effort it took to communicate with someone back then was exponentially more than it is now. It takes the essence out of the relationships you have with people when you can just text them. The psychology behind it is, if you put a lot of effort and time into communicating with someone, it must mean you like them. Your brain knows that even subconsciously.

[Asker]

feelings are fickle. when you are marrying someone primiarly based off of feelings, once your feelings changes- you will divorce. and feelings change all the time.

[Asker]

100 years ago, people married for stability and financial security. people needed each other to survive the harshness of the real world. nowadays, people don't need each other as much because life is easier nowadays.

[HawkPerception]

I guess YOUR feelings are fickle. For me, when there is chemistry, like similar interests, views, goals, and communication, feelings don't just go. If you want to marry for stability or be alone then by all means lol

[Asker]

@hawkperception

feelings do go away once your partner's negative traits and differences start to explode in your face. You can fall out of love just as easily as you can fall in love.

[Asker]

Marriage is not always happy. Americans like you divorce a lot because you assume that marriage must always be happy.

Take a look at what michelle obama who has been married 30 years has to say:

[Asker]

Michelle Obama says she wasn't happy with Barack for 10 of their 30 years they've been married, because marriage is 'hard'

"In this day and age, marriage is more about the dress, and the dresses, and the proposal, and the honeymoon and all the stuff around it. And young people aren't ready for the real of marriage," she told King.

"A lot of young people quit on marriage over things that are just a part of the commitment," she said.

"I share these things because marriage is hard," Obama said. "It's incumbent upon us — people who have had successful marriages — to be really honest about the fact that making a commitment to be with someone means you compromise, and compromise ain't always fun," she said.

https://www. businessinsider. com/michelle-obama-said-didnt-like-barack-10-years-of-marriage-2023-4

[inhua]

modern romance is media driven propaganda that brainwashes a lot of impressionable kids into believing in false hope similar to Santa Claus and the boogeyman

this is problematic when everyone believes they are the heroes of their own stories and refuse to be side characters for someone else. such issues include 5 chicks fighting over 1 hot guy while ignoring the other 4 guys for whatever shallow reasons they come up with. romance sounds great on paper but it fails when put into practice. no one is going to have romantic feelings for someone they don't find attractive

modern romance preaches the idea of great personalities coming together and meshing but one key ingredient is that both the male and female protagonists have in common are above average physical attractiveness such as that in Twilight, 50 Shades, After, The Vampire Diaries etc.

even classic romance like Cinderella, Snow White, Little Mermaid depict the female protagonist having only eyes for one man and that romance is afforded to them but the male centric stories like Aladdin and Hunchback of Notre Dame depicts that romance isn't suppose to be afforded to men unless they do something about it and sometimes it's not suppose to happen no matter what

at the end of the day, humans are still animals who are very much driven by our primal instincts and biological hardwiring in our brains. personality means jack shit when some participants can simply skip the line without the romance and head straight for wild animalistic sex. romance is nothing more than a handicap to separate certain people from others e. g. the hot alpha Chad vs the average beta bux or the wife material vs the recreational material

[Anonymous]

Yeah, you can thank feminism for the divorce rates. And the fact that women are presented with the “opportunity” to make there own money (via onlyfans, because they wouldn’t get there hands dirty for a respectable job) instead of actually being taught to be a good mother and wife and taking care of the family. When morals and virtue are attacked so hard like it is in western culture. Than you get a society like this. The family nucleus destroyed, young adults issuing divorce (should say the majority of women issuing that divorce).
A lot of people say it’s because men don’t take care of women like they are supposed too. And they are right, but the quality of women have gone down significantly since the rise of idealistic feministic sects that emerge out of the gutter to infect women’s minds that they don’t need a man and men are trash. I come from the Caribbean, it’s getting more westernized down there some, but most households are stricter, and if that girl had an onlyfans and she was caught… she would be at Jesus door in 5 minutes. Other countries understand this, but the more industrialized a country gets the more deprived it becomes.

[Jamie05rhs]

It's a good question. But I do not believe that Americans' divorce rate is so high because of getting married for romance. In fact, I believe it is the opposite! America's divorce rate is so high because Americans are NOT truly romantic. They don't get it. At all. They see relationships as a way to fulfill their own selfish desires. They don't truly love the other person. They are just using them, for as long as they can make them feel good. That is not romance. These people have completely missed the memo.

[Yolandi]

I actually also agree with this. I feel Americans are extremely pressured to get married at certain times. I am an American living in France and it seems a lot of Europeans do not face this same kind of pressure in there early / mid 20s like Americans are.

[Asker]

@Yolandi

in most cultures, there is a pressure to get married. its uncommon to find a culture where people didn't face the culture of getting married. however i don't agree that there is a pressure to get married in america, at least not any more. this was more the case back during the 1990s.

[CCammiee14]

@Asker Yeah no. Getting married and having kids is still VERY much engrained in American culture.

[CCammiee14]

As an American I agree. I feel like the asker has it backwards in a way. People are rushing into marriage with people they think they love for the white picket fence dream, not necessarily for the romantic partner themselves.

[Jamie05rhs]

@CCammiee14 Very good point! They're seeking the "American dream" housewifedom/"husband"dom. Not a relationship with their partner. The romantic relationship is secondary to them. As long as it APPEARS like a relationship -- going through all of the stereotypical motions -- they are okay with that. They are perfectly okay with their relationship being shallow and fake; because they are shallow and fake themselves.

[Yolandi]

@CCammiee14 yes it seems like clockwork

[Asker]

@CCammiee14 @jamie05rhs

complaining about pressure to start a family and "rushing into marriage" are purely ONLY American complaints. in other cultures, nobody complains about that sort of stuff. Starting a family should be encouraged. Imagine a society with no families or broken families. This is the type of stuff only americans support.

if you go to any other culture, people want to create families. People value family. Family is the basic fabric of one's society. Family is always there for each other.

And as for "rushing into marriage". You would only say that if you're constantly on the lookout for someone better. Americans do not rush into marriage. People like you date around 10 exes until you find "the one". then 15 years later, you divorce them claiming that you married the wrong person. there is NO SUCH THING as marrying the right person or WAITING for the right person. Jewish people , arabic people marry when they are super young in their 20s and they actually can remain married until old age. Unlike americans, where they date around 10 people, get married and then divorce. why do you think other people can actually stay married while you can't?

[Asker]

@CCammiee14

Americans divorce because they are constantly looking for someone better. They believe that marriage is supposed to be paradise. If its anything less than that, then there's no point in staying married. High expectations is why americans divorce and are afraid of commitment.

[Jamie05rhs]

"And as for "rushing into marriage". You would only say that if you're constantly on the lookout for someone better."
No. That's not what that means. People rush into marriage with people who they are attracted to superficially. They already think they found the best person. So there is absolutely no reason to look for anyone better.
(They just later on look for someone who "understands me better" after the relationship has broken down because they're not compatible.)

[Jamie05rhs]

"People like you date around 10 exes until you find "the one". then 15 years later, you divorce them claiming that you married the wrong person."
First of all, the "people like you" part is wrong. Haha. Because I don't do that. So you've got the wrong guy, Sister.

Secondly, the people who DO do this get divorced because they lost their ability to pair bond. Since they had sex with so many people. So nothing is special to them anymore. And they're comparing their spouse to all of their exes.

[Jamie05rhs]

"there is NO SUCH THING as marrying the right person or WAITING for the right person.". Yes, there is, actually. Certain people just do not get along. These people should never be married to one another.

[Jamie05rhs]

"Jewish people , arabic people marry when they are super young in their 20s and they actually can remain married until old age."
That's because they're religious and they value marriage. So they will stay together regardless.

[Jamie05rhs]

"Why do you think other people can actually stay married while you can't?". Because American society doesn't believe in marriage anymore. The culture is warped and corrupted.

[Yolandi]

Yeah I just wanted to mention that NO, all my American friends are always like “I want a kid, husband, wife, whatever” from 21-28 for example but I live in France now and it is not the norm. I think it’s more early 30s here. I could not move back to the US because they all want the same thing or they already have it (settling down)

[Jamie05rhs]

@Yolandi Why do you say you could not move back to the U. S. because of that? Is it because you don't personally want to get married?

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[Secondly, the people who DO do this get divorced because they lost their ability to pair bond. Since they had sex with so many people. So nothing is special to them anymore. And they're comparing their spouse to all of their exes.]

it has absolutely nothing to do with inability to bond. Because I have seen divorcees actually who remarried and were able to stay married for the rest of their lives without a problem. People get divorced, date around, then they remarry and are able to stay married for the rest of hteir lives. The later you marry in life, the less likely you are to get divorced.

And plus, what you've said is purely contradictory. how do you blame people for inability to bond... if you want to "date around" before you find "the one". If you've dated around 6-8 people before you married. Your current wife is just another lover, not anyone special. You could've dated women whom you loved more than your wife. By this, you're also just saying you lack the ability to bond.

what you've said is purely 100% contradictory and makes no sense.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

["Why do you think other people can actually stay married while you can't?". Because American society doesn't believe in marriage anymore. The culture is warped and corrupted.]

americans don't believe in marriage anymore. Because none of you can actually stay married.

Because all of you americans have super high expectations of marriage. You think marriage should be happy. Anything less than happy means ultimate divorce. You're not going to be able to stay married if you hold this type of mentality.

Anyone who has been married for over 25 years knows that the secret to a long-lasting marriage is to compromise, stick together even when things get hard or when things get unhappy. Michelle obama said she was unhappy for 10 out of the 30 years she had been married to obama. My mother said the same thing.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

"Finding the right person" has nothing to do with a long lasting marriage.

Jewish people , arabic people marry when they are super young in their 20s and they actually can remain married until old age. They didn't date around 20 women before they found "the one". YET they have longer marriages than you!!! how do you explain this?

on the other hand, Americans date around 20 people, claim they found "the right person". YET your divorce rates are 50%!!!

having a successful marriage has nothing to do with finding the right one. It all has to do with your expectations and your will to stay married.

[Asker]

@Yolandi

There is no such pressure in america. I'm 27 living in the state of new york right now and I don't even face such a pressure. So what you're saying is just a complete bullshit lie. My mom wants me to get married but she isn't pressuring me to get married. She wants the best for me but she isn't pressuring me to do anything I don't wanna do.

You might feel "pressure" because you see all your friends, classmates, coworkers getting married by a certain age. So you feel like you're an outcast. Truth is... people in the US get married and start families because THEY WANT TO, Not because they feel pressured to. Its natural human instinct to want to have children, to want family. If nobody wanted to birth kids or start families, then the human population would cease to exist.

[Jamie05rhs]

"Because I have seen divorcees actually who remarried and were able to stay married for the rest of their lives without a problem". People who remarry and stay married were probably in horrible relationships the first time around. So they find their second spouse to be much easier to deal with and that's quite a relief to them. So they have a big incentive to maintain that relationship, because they're grateful that they have been given a second chance at love.
(Note that this certainly doesn't happen in ALL second marriages!)

[Jamie05rhs]

@asker "how do you blame people for inability to bond... if you want to "date around" before you find "the one"."
I'm not sure where you got that impression. Certainly not based on anything I said, I hope. I've been on this site for 4 years now, and all of my statements have been consistent: I am waiting for marriage to have sex. I do not believe in having sex before marriage.

[Jamie05rhs]

"americans don't believe in marriage anymore. Because none of you can actually stay married."
That's pretty much exactly what I just said.

[Jamie05rhs]

" "Finding the right person" has nothing to do with a long lasting marriage.". Yes, it does. It has everything to do with it!

"Jewish people , arabic people marry when they are super young in their 20s and they actually can remain married until old age. They didn't date around 20 women before they found "the one". YET they have longer marriages than you!!! how do you explain this?"
I have already answered that elsewhere on this thread.

[Jamie05rhs]

Responding to your response to @Yolandi, there IS a lot of peer pressure to get married in certain circles. It depends on which group you associate with. The more conservative ones will push marriage, while the liberal ones do not.

I personally am not affected by the pressure either way. I do want to get married, but I'll do it on my own terms.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[People who remarry and stay married were probably in horrible relationships the first time around. So they find their second spouse to be much easier to deal with and that's quite a relief to them. So they have a big incentive to maintain that relationship, because they're grateful that they have been given a second chance at love.]

because dating around or sleeping around has absolutely nothing to do with being able to stay in a marriage. Americans like you date around and fall in love 10-20 times before you find "the one". how is your current wife different from all the lovers you've had in the past? your wife is just another lover.

And chances are, you might even have loved your ex way more deeply than you love your current wife. People don't always marry the one they loved the most. People marry the one who they get along with the best and if they found someone who reciprocates their feelings.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[" "Finding the right person" has nothing to do with a long lasting marriage.". Yes, it does. It has everything to do with it!

"Jewish people , arabic people marry when they are super young in their 20s and they actually can remain married until old age. They didn't date around 20 women before they found "the one". YET they have longer marriages than you!!! how do you explain this?"

I have already answered that elsewhere on this thread.]

you haven't explained this at all.

when couples who weren't picky, didn't ate around a million people are able to stay married longer than you. THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES.

[Asker]

["americans don't believe in marriage anymore. Because none of you can actually stay married."
That's pretty much exactly what I just said.]

why do you think other people from other cultures can stay married while americans can't?

people from other countries marry super young, weren't super picky with who they married, didn't fall in love 20 times with 20 different people before they married. how are these people able to stay married while you can't?

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

nobody is peer pressuring you. and I'm sure nobody is forcing you to get married either. I , myself, live in new york state. I've never felt anyone pressuring me to get married. what you're saying is a complete bullshit lie.

reality is.. you can't stand seeing the fact that most of your peers actually want marriage and children. therefore, you feel left out of the group like an outcast.

this has absolutely nothing to do with someone pressuring you to get married. you just can't handle the fact that you feel so left out of the group.

[Jamie05rhs]

@asker
"because dating around or sleeping around has absolutely nothing to do with being able to stay in a marriage."
Yes, it does. It has a LOT to do with it!

"Americans like you date around and fall in love 10-20 times before you find "the one". how is your current wife different from all the lovers you've had in the past? your wife is just another lover."
You are making a lot of assumptions about me. #1 I'm not like other Americans. And #2 I don't have a wife.

"And chances are, you might even have loved your ex way more deeply than you love your current wife... People marry the one who they get along with the best and if they found someone who reciprocates their feelings."
Love doesn't even matter at all unless it's reciprocated.

[Jamie05rhs]

"you haven't explained this at all."
Yes, I have.
""Jewish people , arabic people marry when they are super young in their 20s and they actually can remain married until old age."
That's because they're religious and they value marriage. So they will stay together regardless."

"THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES.". No; it means nothing at all. They didn't get divorced because divorce was never an option for them.

[Jamie05rhs]

"why do you think other people from other cultures can stay married while americans can't?"
I already answered this. Pay attention, please. It's because the a) actually believe in marriage, b) don't have the option of divorce, or c) combination of the above.

Also, you don't need to repeat yourself on points that were already addressed.

[Jamie05rhs]

"I , myself, live in new york state."
New Yorkers don't believe in marriage.

"I've never felt anyone pressuring me to get married.". You're probably lying, but I'll let that go for now.

"therefore, you feel left out of the group like an outcast.". Yes, I am an outsider in regards to the people who are married with kids. That is true. But I do not want to be them. I do not want children. That life is not appealing to me.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

["because dating around or sleeping around has absolutely nothing to do with being able to stay in a marriage."
Yes, it does. It has a LOT to do with it!]

all americans date around and sleep around because they are too picky with who they want to marry. Its your fault. You inflicted this problem on yourself.

["Americans like you date around and fall in love 10-20 times before you find "the one". how is your current wife different from all the lovers you've had in the past? your wife is just another lover."
You are making a lot of assumptions about me. #1 I'm not like other Americans. And #2 I don't have a wife.]

because this is what YOU , americans, do when you are looking for someone to marry. You date a million women. you are super picky. Even you claimed "I dont want to marry just anybody. I want to get married on my own terms". This basically means you're gonna hop around with a million women before you find "THE ONE". Actions speak louder than words

["And chances are, you might even have loved your ex way more deeply than you love your current wife... People marry the one who they get along with the best and if they found someone who reciprocates their feelings."
Love doesn't even matter at all unless it's reciprocated.]

you've hopped around on so many different dates with so many different women. I"m sure you could've loved your EX more than your own wife.

[Asker]

["you haven't explained this at all."
Yes, I have.
""Jewish people , arabic people marry when they are super young in their 20s and they actually can remain married until old age."
That's because they're religious and they value marriage. So they will stay together regardless."

"THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES.". No; it means nothing at all. They didn't get divorced because divorce was never an option for them.]

people in other cultures can stay married because they want to stay married. They don't have this delusionally high expectations of marriage like you americans. Marriage in other cultures is about taking care of each other for the rest of their lives. In america, marriage is the same as dating 2.0 where you expect just fairytales, happiness, and no compromises necessary.

maybe quit being so arrogant and learn why you can't maintain a marriage.

[Asker]

["why do you think other people from other cultures can stay married while americans can't?"
I already answered this. Pay attention, please. It's because the a) actually believe in marriage, b) don't have the option of divorce, or c) combination of the above.

Also, you don't need to repeat yourself on points that were already addressed.]

because divorce SHOULDN"T be an option. Marriage is supposed to be a forever commitment. why would you sign up for a forever commitment if you are just gonna leave when things are unhappy? you don't know what you're signing up for.

marriage is not supposed to be happy all the time. if you're gonna DITCH WHENEVER YOU FEEL LIKE, don't get married.

americans dont look down on divorce- thats why none of your families can stay together

and it you seem to have the UTMOST PRIDE in divorce. divorce is even CELEBRATED in america. yet its quite funny how you're complaining about divorce.

people who celebrate divorce will never be able to maintain a marriage. NOt surprising

[Asker]

["I , myself, live in new york state."
New Yorkers don't believe in marriage.

"I've never felt anyone pressuring me to get married.". You're probably lying, but I'll let that go for now.

"therefore, you feel left out of the group like an outcast.". Yes, I am an outsider in regards to the people who are married with kids. That is true. But I do not want to be them. I do not want children. That life is not appealing to me.]

I've lived in the US for almost 30 years. born and raised. There is nobody pressuring you to get married. you're just saying this because you don't like the fact that most young people DO WANT marriage.

In other countries, your parents will set you up with a girl through a matchmaker and pressure you to get married. This is real pressure to get married. NOT someone from your IMAGINATION pressuring you to get married. No such thing happens in america.

you're just bitter and angry about being left out.

and people SHOULD be encouraged to have families. Because human population will cease to exist if nobody wanted families.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker Again, I do not sleep around. Pay attention.

No, I am not going to "hop around" with a million women.

You really don't know anything about me, do you? You must be new here.

"I"m sure you could've loved your EX more than your own wife.". Honey, I don't have an Ex. So try again!

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker

"because divorce SHOULDN"T be an option. Marriage is supposed to be a forever commitment.". NO SHIT!!
You're preaching to the choir, ma'am.

"why would you sign up for a forever commitment if you are just gonna leave when things are unhappy?
I WON'T!!

"americans dont look down on divorce- thats why none of your families can stay together.". I Agree!!

"and it you seem to have the UTMOST PRIDE in divorce. divorce is even CELEBRATED in america.". NOT BY ME!

"people who celebrate divorce will never be able to maintain a marriage. NOt surprising". I agree!!

[Jamie05rhs]

"and people SHOULD be encouraged to have families. Because human population will cease to exist if nobody wanted families.". Guess who doesn't give a fuck? (Me)

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[Again, I do not sleep around. Pay attention.

No, I am not going to "hop around" with a million women.]

You do not need to sleep around to lose your inability to bond with your spouse. Your currebt wife is nothing but just another lover. she's nobody special. You might have loved your ex girlfriend way more than your wife.

Quit trying to make yourself seem special and flawless because you aren't.

[Asker]

[No, I am not going to "hop around" with a million women.]

you're not gonna date 1 woman then marry her. You want to date around many women before you find "the one". So yes. This will just make your wife just another lover. Nobody special. You might love your ex more than your wife. So how are you doing things right?
This inability to bond is all self inflicted by yourself. Its your fault you want to date around.

Even when Americans do date around so much because they are so damn picky. They still can't stay married. Why do you think?

Logically this proves that "finding the right one" has absolutely nothing to do with a successful forever marriage.

Its the WILL TO STAY MARRIED that is the secret to a forever lasting marriage

[Jamie05rhs]

Ma'am... 🙄. I do not have an ex-girlfriend nor a wife... 🙄

"You want to date around many women before you find "the one".
Says WHO? 🤷🤷. BUT I'll tell you right now that nothing can be further from the truth!

*Even when Americans do date around so much because they are so damn picky. They still can't stay married. Why do you think?". Um, maybe because they're having SEX with all of these people? 🤷

"Logically this proves that "finding the right one" has absolutely nothing to do with a successful forever marriage.". False.

"Its the WILL TO STAY MARRIED that is the secret to a forever lasting marriage"
Correct! (Even though that isn't the FULL picture.)

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

simply insisting denial and unable to explain your own stance is proof that your point isn't valid.

You're the typical American with the typical American values: fear of commitment, high expectations of marriage, lack of family values. (I can see this clearly in you)

Your improper values are exactly the reason why americans can't stay married.

When you treat marriage as simply an "experience", your chances of a forever marriage is slim to none. Marriage is not a joy ride.

[Jamie05rhs]

You think I don't have family values? HA! You are so woefully misinformed.
Here's an idea, why don't you actually follow me and read my posts and my comments. Then you will be able to actually know who I am, so then you can actually know what you are talking about.

I am THE LAST person to treat marriage as an "experience"!! 🤣🤣

[Jamie05rhs]

@OlderAndWiser @coachTanthony

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

Foreign values: prioritize having children, desire for marriage, goal of marriage is to not only enjoy each other but also take care of each other forever, both individuals have duties owed to each other. They make decisions as a family unit rather than as individuals. Divorce is looked down upon. Even after marriage, grandparents come over to help babysit their grandchildren. They dont see marriage as just an "experience", they see it as taking care of each other forever. They believe that growing old with someone throughout life is better than dying alone.

American values: Nobody wants to have children. Or not having any children is a good thing. Nobody wants to get married- fear of commitment. Marriage is less about taking care of each other forever but more about enjoying an "experience". Super picky with who they marry since they see marriage as an "experience".

Divorce is seen as necessary and good. there's nothing wrong with broken families or dads who visit their kids once a month. After kids are grown, they barely ever visit their parents unless they want to get something from them. American grandparents rarely ever babysit their grandchildren, they see it as unpaid labor. Dying alone , lonely, neglected is better than having to settle for someone.

[Asker]

Foreign values:
They make decisions as a family unit rather than as individuals. Family interests are more important than individual interests.

American values: Make decisions as an individual rather than collectively as a family. Individual interests are more important than family interests.

Americans divorce due to lack of family values.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker And I agree with the "foreign" values that you listed. I am on YOUR side!! 👍👍

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

simply agreeing doesn't mean you can do what foreigners can do.

Because none of your values or plans resemble foreign values.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker Well, guess what? They aren't FOREIGN values to me! Because they are my OWN values!

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

you can't agree to something that you would never personally do...

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker That's right! And this is something that I WOULD personally Do! So I definitely CAN agree with it!

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

from what you've told me- you don't want marriage. you don't want kids. creating a family does not matter. you're super picky about who you want to marry. you won't marry unless its on your own terms.
none of these resemble foreign values.

Foreign people marry by a certain age due to practical reasons. They don't wait until 50 years old to meet "the one".

[OlderAndWiser]

@Asker It sounds like you are lecturing us miscreant Americans from the moral high ground. How did you come to occupy the pinnacle of righteous living? And while you are extolling the virtues of European marriages, can you explain why a married man having a mistress is accepted in some many European countries? Is that one of the reasons that makes European marriages better?

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

when you find that people of your culture fail to keep your marriages intact. this alone should be enough for you to ask yourself "what am i doing wrong?" instead of arrogantly insisting that you're doing everything right.

[OlderAndWiser]

I never insisted that we are doing everything right. That is just a statement you fabricated so you would have something to attack. And you avoided answering my questions. Do you have any answers?

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

Europeans aren't known for being able to stay maintain marriages. In fact, some of the european countries have one of the highest divorce rates in the world.

It is Asian, muslim, jewish countries that are able to stay married.

Learn from those who are able to stay married, not from those who are unable to stay married.

[OlderAndWiser]

I am concerned about divorce rates but staying married but having extramarital affairs is not an improvement. And that is common in some Asian cultures.

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

The number of extramarital affairs is actually less common in these countries than in European countries.

People in these countries tend to be more disciplined, less likely to sleep around too.

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

People from these countries come from a very structured background and structured society. They grew up with strict rules. So they don't live like americans where its like a jungle where everyone sleeps around , dates a million people before marriage, fall in love 20 times with 20 different guys, cheating or break up families. Not saying its impossible for this to happen. but its significantly less likely than america.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker I have never said that I don't want marriage! That is a lie. I very much want to be married.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[I personally am not affected by the pressure either way. I do want to get married, but I'll do it on my own terms.]

["and people SHOULD be encouraged to have families. Because human population will cease to exist if nobody wanted families.". Guess who doesn't give a fuck? (Me)]

Both these lines certainly don't sound like it comes from someone who values marriage and wants to start a family

it sounds like something the typical American would say. Individualistic values other family values.

[Jamie05rhs]

@asker
I was responding to your statement about peer pressure. You may want to brush up on your contextual reading skills.

And that's right. I DON'T give a fuck about the world population. Because it's not my problem!

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

if you truly valued marriage and had family values, you would want to be married by a certain age. You don't care about having children. This is why I say you dont have family values. You might want romance, but it does not mean you have family values. There is a difference.

Part of the reason why mentioned "human population ceasing to exist" is because humans are designed largely to want children. Not everyone, but most. If most people disliked having children, humans wouldn't exist today. We wouldn't go through generations and generations. Humans would have ceased to exist long ago.

[Jamie05rhs]

@asker Now you're just talking nonsense. There is no deadline to get married.

And no; family values do not mean wanting to have kids. You can still care about family values and not have kids. This isn't a baby making factory. SMH...

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

humans are largely designed to want children which is the main reason why people tend to marry and have kids by a certain age ( usually when they are young). If everyone waited for "the one" to come along, everyone would be getting married when they are old. Most people marry when it is the right time to marry, not when the right person comes along.

[Jamie05rhs]

And you're being hysterical. Humans aren't going to die out just because of one person not having children.

[Jamie05rhs]

The right time to get married IS when the right person comes along!! 🤦

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[Now you're just talking nonsense. There is no deadline to get married.]

there is a difference between wanting romance versus wanting marriage. You can want romance but not prioritize marriage. You ultimately want romance, not necessarily marriage.

In other cultures, people want to get married because they want to START A FAMILY. If you wanted a family badly enough, you would want marriage. If you are a family oriented person, you would want to start a family of your own.

Lastly, just because might love your parents, it does not necessarily mean you are family oriented.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker No, I want MARRIAGE. Why do you think I'm not married yet? Tons of people get married early and guess where they are now? Divorced. So would you rather me to have just picked a random woman and "married" her for a few years and then quit?
I'm sorry, but that's not how marriage works, honey. It's not a game.

[Asker]

[The right time to get married IS when the right person comes along!!]

like i said... marriage is just an "experience " for you.

In other cultures, people marry at a very young age and they aren't picky with who they marry. But ironically , it is these people who are able to remain married longer than americans.

Lastly, if you truly had family values, you would want to have a family of your own. why? family oriented people understand the benefits of having a family. Nobody who prioritizes having a family would wait lifetime to get married.

thats why i say, you dont have family values. you just want romance.

[Jamie05rhs]

And just because you have babies after you get married, that doesn't make you special. All of these people have babies and then break up. Well, guess what? That's even WORSE! Because now you have little children who have to grow up without living with both parents and having parents who do not love each other.

[Asker]

[No, I want MARRIAGE. Why do you think I'm not married yet? Tons of people get married early and guess where they are now? Divorced. So would you rather me to have just picked a random woman and "married" her for a few years and then quit?
I'm sorry, but that's not how marriage works, honey. It's not a game.]

divorce is an option. its not a must.

In other cultures, people marry at a very young age and they aren't picky with who they marry. But ironically , it is these people who are able to remain married longer than americans.

Americans divorce because American values goes against marriage.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker No; it's an EXPERIENCE for THEM! The people who marry young. Because they will pick just anyone. So obviously they don't actually care about the person that they marry! They're just warm body!

You don't even know what "family" means.
You have no room to lecture me nor anyone.

[Jamie05rhs]

NO, divorce is NOT an option! That is the whole POINT! The fact that you see it as an option means that you do not understand anything.

[Asker]

[And just because you have babies after you get married, that doesn't make you special. All of these people have babies and then break up. Well, guess what? That's even WORSE! Because now you have little children who have to grow up without living with both parents and having parents who do not love each other.]

A lot of people in arraigned marriages learn to love each other. In other cultures, people learn to love each other. And they take care of each other forever. they actually don't hate each other. they learn to get along with each other.

Americans couples don't have a duty owed to each other.
Most americans marry based on "feelings". then why are your divorce rates so high?

[Jamie05rhs]

And yes, American values DO go against marriage. Again, I AGREE with you!!

[Jamie05rhs]

I AGREE!

[Asker]

[NO, divorce is NOT an option! That is the whole POINT! The fact that you see it as an option means that you do not understand anything.]

It is the people who dont see divorce as an option who have the longest marriages. do you realize that?

[Jamie05rhs]

EXACTLY! THAT'S WHAT I MEAN! 👍

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

you're constantly insisting about meeting "the one". Most people will never meet "the one" throughout their lifetimes. There is no such thing as the perfect person. You willalways have things you don't like about the person. Everyone has flaws.

A long lasting marriage has nothing to do with finding "the one". Because even if you find "the one", feelings still might change. A long lasting marriage is not based on finding "the one". It is based on YOUR WILL TO STAY MARRIED and work through things, compromise on things.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

Michelle Obama says she wasn't happy with Barack for 10 of their 30 years they've been married, because marriage is 'hard'

"In this day and age, marriage is more about the dress, and the dresses, and the proposal, and the honeymoon and all the stuff around it. And young people aren't ready for the real of marriage," she told King.

"A lot of young people quit on marriage over things that are just a part of the commitment," she said.

"I share these things because marriage is hard," Obama said. "It's incumbent upon us — people who have had successful marriages — to be really honest about the fact that making a commitment to be with someone means you compromise, and compromise ain't always fun," she said.

h ttps://www. businessinsider. com/michelle-obama-said-didnt-like-barack-10-years-of-marriage-2023-4

[Jamie05rhs]

"There is no such thing as the perfect person.". Yes; you are right. But there IS such a thing as a Trainwreck!

"Everyone has flaws." Correct. But if their flaw is being constantly argumentative (such as yourself; no offense), then that's a GREAT reason to reject them!

"A long lasting marriage has nothing to do with finding "the one"."
Yes, it does. If she's not the One, don't marry her! Period!! It's that simple.

[Jamie05rhs]

"Because even if you find "the one", feelings still might change."
That's why you don't base your marriage on feelings. You base it on COMMITMENT.

"It is based on YOUR WILL TO STAY MARRIED and work through things, compromise on things."
I Agree!! But guess what? If you have less things that you disagree on, then there will be less things that you have to compromise on! So it would greatly help to find someone that you're compatible with in the first place!

[Jamie05rhs]

And I agree with Michelle!

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[
"A long lasting marriage has nothing to do with finding "the one"."
Yes, it does. If she's not the One, don't marry her! Period!! It's that simple.]

you're super picky about finding "the one" because you see marriage as an experience.

Because reality is... there is no such thing as "the one"

There is no such thing as a soulmate.

And a forever marriage has absolutely nothing to do with "finding the one".

A forever marriage has all to do with YOUR WILL TO STAY MARRIED.

Just because you married "the one", it doesn't necessarily mean you will be happy in the marriage.

Just take a look at michelle obama.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

Barack Obama Reacts to Michelle's Claim of Not Liking Him for 10 YEARS of Their Marriage

h ttps://www. youtube. com/watch? v=SNIDY_KVZzA

she says she is much more tolerant of his flaws than vice versa. And by being tolerant was the way the obamas were able to stay married for so long. Tolerance, perseverance through hardships in the marriage is KEY to a successful marriage.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

if michelle saw DIVORCE AS AN OPTION throughout her miserable 10 years, she wouldn't still be married to obama. She would've been divorced.

as you can see, divorce is an option. Not a must.

[Jamie05rhs]

"you're super picky about finding "the one" because you see marriage as an experience.". WRONG. It's not an experience. It's a lifetime relationship!

"Just take a look at michelle obama..". Yes; do. She is a great example of how to have a GOOD marriage.

[Jamie05rhs]

You don't have to be tolerant if you don't marry the wrong person. Again, the better you choose, the more smoothly things will go for you.

[Jamie05rhs]

And we already discussed divorce and we're on the same side. This is why you would make a terrible wife. Because you want to continue arguing even though WE AGREE!!! 🤦

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[You don't have to be tolerant if you don't marry the wrong person. Again, the better you choose, the more smoothly things will go for you.]

because you still assume that there is such a thing as "the one"

I can tell you that the vast majority of people never ever meet "the one" ever throughout their lives.

My father has things that he hates about my mother.

My mother has things that he hates about my father.

They do fight but they still love each other. They've been married 31 years.

[Jamie05rhs]

SEE? You just admitted that your parents fight each other!

I rest my case. 👨‍⚖️

[Asker]

[And we already discussed divorce and we're on the same side. This is why you would make a terrible wife. Because you want to continue arguing even though WE AGREE!!! ]

We don't agree on most parts of this topic. There are many key points to this discussion that we don't agree on.

I don't think I will make a terrible wife. I think I will make a great wife. I don't have ridiculously high standards like yours. I am willing to remain married through good times and bad times. You are only interested in being married for the "good times". You expect marriage to be a "good time". I don't.

Even if I am not totally passionate and excited about my husband, I will not divorce him. Because I vowed and made a commitment to be with him forever. And I am determined to take care of him forever.

I don't hold your mentality where if you aren't passionate about your spouse anymore, then you should just leave them. Marriage is not just an experience for me, it is a duty owed to each other.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

people who expect marriage to be "paradise" tend to be the first ones to divorce once a rough patch hits.

[Jamie05rhs]

And you're expecting a marriage to be a bad time. Therefore, you will accept a mediocre marriage. Good luck with that. I wish you the best.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

[And you're expecting a marriage to be a bad time. Therefore, you will accept a mediocre marriage. Good luck with that. I wish you the best.]

I don't expect marriage to be a bad time. But I don't have super high expectations of marriage like you. I know I will stay with my husband during the good times and bad times.

I know you won't stay with your wife during the bad times. Americans never stay with each other during bad times- explains why your divorce rates in your country are so high.

people who expect marriage to be "paradise" tend to be the first ones to divorce once a rough patch hits.

[Jamie05rhs]

"I don't hold your mentality where if you aren't passionate about your spouse anymore, then you should just leave them.". Did I ever say that? NO!! Stop making shit up.

This is yet another reason why you would not be a good wife. Because you are dishonest!

[Jamie05rhs]

"people who expect marriage to be "paradise" tend to be the first ones to divorce once a rough patch hits."
I'm not getting divorced. PERIOD.

[Jamie05rhs]

"I know you won't stay with your wife during the bad times."
You need to stop lying about me or I will sue you for libel.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

I was never dishonest. I am just smart enough to see through you BS.

you're super picky because you expect marriage to be a great experience. you keep insisting on why you would never settle for anyone. your ridiculous beliefs that a marriage will not work unless you find "the one". why? because marriage is nothing but just an experience for you. Just stop pretending and admit.

[And you're expecting a marriage to be a bad time. Therefore, you will accept a mediocre marriage. Good luck with that. I wish you the best.]

I can sense through your tone that you don't agree with me.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker You are being dishonest this entire time. And you also won't listen. You are pretty daft, tbh. That's another great reason not to marry you, because I want my wife to actually be intelligent.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

if you truly are willing to stick by your spouse through good / bad times. If you were truly tolerant of your spouse's flaws, you wouldn't be so ridiculously picky. You will just find a girl that you admire and are compatible with and just marry her. This is what happens in other cultures. They dont look for "the one".

Meanwhile you're obsessing over "the one". As if the marriage can't work if your wife has things you don't like about her. You wouldn't be so worried about the marriage not working if you knew were willing to tolerate her flaws.

[Jamie05rhs]

You really are slow, aren't you? You don't understand logic at all.
Again, if you marry the wrong person in the first place, they are going to give you a lot more problems. That's why you are selective on who you choose.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

I'm looking for someone who I am compatible with. I'm not looking for the perfect person or "the one". I am not super picky about the person I am married to because I know I am willing to tolerate his flaws.

You are super picky about the person you are married to because you know THAT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TOLERATE HER FLAWS.

I'm not going to marry someone that I'm not compatible with. But I certainly don't expect a perfect person. I expect my spouse to have flaws.

Because any experienced dater knows... everyone has flaws. You're not goin to find anyone out there that is without flaws. You don't know this because you've never dated.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

I have flaws myself. I am not perfect. Neither are you.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

I walk into a marriage knowing that we will fight at some point. Maybe not everyday. But we will fight. And I will stay married to him.

You walk into a marriage expecting it to be pure bliss joy ride with no fights. In your eyes, a fight should occur only 1 time every 10 years.

[OlderAndWiser]

You are talking out your ass. I have spent time with many Chinese people and, based on their firsthand accounts, marital infidelity is extremely common in their culture.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

You see marriage as an "experience". I don't. Thats why I am so much moer tolerant and accepting of my spouse's flaws than you.

The obamas were only able to remain married because michelle was forgiving of his flaws.

if you were in the obama's shoes, you would've divorced.

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

Historically infidelity had never been common. Its only a bit more common over the past 15 years. For thousands of years, people had always been in arranged marriages and infidelity had never been common. But even throughout asia, if you take a look at india, japan, korea- these countries have very low infidelity rates. Significantly less sleeping around too.

Same for muslims, jewish people also have very low cheating and divorce rates.

[OlderAndWiser]

Only an idiot would believe the results of polls about infidelity. The results are based entirely on self-reporting and people have strong reasons to lie about this.

Can you cite ANY source that compares the rate of infidelity now vs. 50 or 100 years ago? Any sources that compare the prevalence of infidelity in different cultures?

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

my parents are chinese... thats how i know. My parents met through a matchmaker and was put into an arraigned marriage. Same for my grandparents. Certain parts of asia such as thailand tend to cheat more than other parts of asia suc has japan or korea.

But it still doesn't refute the fact that there america has one of the HIGHEST divorce rates in the world. And that there are plenty of cultures out there that are able to have long standing stable marriages with minimal amounts of infidelity- such cultures tend to be much more structured environments or religious.

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

My parents and grandparents told me that cheating was rare back in early 1990s and prior in china especially in the countryside. It happened but it wasn't commonplace. Cheating only increased in china beginning during the mid to late 2000s. And part of the reason why this happened was due to the fact that old fashioned traditional practices such as arraigned marriages were no longer practiced. There came an advent of dating and premarital sex.

Historically chinese people were almost always virgins prior to marriage. Traditionally most couples were brought together by matchmakers and families. People typically stay married to their spouses brought by their matchmakers for the rest of their lives. There was no such thing as experimenting sex with boyfriends, there was no such thing as dating around. People just met through a matchmaker and if they liked each other, they just married a few weeks or months later.

So let me get to my point:

when people date around, experiment with all sorts of different guys... this leads to a lot of temptation if they ever do get married. Because they will COMPARE their husbands to their previous exes. For example, if your ex was ridiculous amazing in bed. You love your husband but your husband simply cannot sexually fulfill you like your ex. You miss that feeling. So what do you do? YOU CHEAT!!!

this is the main reason why the elimination of arraigned marriages led to an increase in cheating in china.

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

Same thing occurs in Jewish marriages. By the time you hit a certain age, your parents will try to hook you up with a boy from another family. You both will get to know each other. If all goes well, you will be stand in the wedding ceremony. A lot of jewish people marry quite young in their 20s. And these people tend to have extremely stable marriages. I have lot of faith in these people being able to stay married for the rest of their lives.

Most religious Muslims also tend to marry quite young and they do tend to stay married.

I also have a friend who is from Guyana. She said that her grandma was 16 when she married her grandfather (21). It was an arraigned marriage. When he (grandfather) was asked which girl he wanted to marry, he pointed to her (grandmother). Her grandma's parents told her " you will be marrying this boy". She replied "eww". Then a few weeks later , they were married.

guess what? the grandmother is now 83 and the grandfather is now 88. They are both together and live in the same house with their grown children and grown grandchildren.

Arraigned marriages worked in the past. Because people had different values.

[OlderAndWiser]

Nine countries with divorce rates higher than US rate

Maldives - 5.52
Kazakhstan - 4.6
Russia - 3.9
Belarus (tie) - 3.7
Belgium (tie) - 3.7
Moldova - 3.3
China - 3.2
Cuba - 2.9
Ukraine - 2.88
Denmark (tie) - 2.7
Latvia (tie) - 2.7
Lithuania (tie) - 2.7
United States (tie) - 2.7

Countries with the lowest divorce rates

Sri Lanka - .15
Guatemala (tie) - .20
Vietnam (tie) - .20
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines - .40
Peru - .50
South Africa - .60
Chile (tie) - .70
Colombia (tie) - .70
Ireland (tie) - .70
Malta (tie) - .70
Panama (tie) - .70
Qatar (tie) - .70
Saint Lucia (tie) - .70
United Arab Emirates (tie) - .70
Venezuela (tie) - .70

worldpopulationreview.com/.../divorce-rates-by-country

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

The United States has a higher divorce rate than most parts of the world, but it is far from the country with the most divorces.

h ttps://www. forbes. com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/

[OlderAndWiser]

Do you have a point, or do you just want to put your expert opinions out there?

[Asker]

@OlderAndWiser

Well according to the forbes link, it clearly says america has one of the higher divorce rates compared to most of the world.

I don't think it matters which countries have it higher or lower.

My point is: most other countries in the world have LOWER divorce rates than america.

Doesn't matter which country we are talking about.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker "In your eyes, a fight should occur only 1 time every 10 years."
That is correct. (Or less than that.)

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

thats something that doesn't exist.

you're waiting for something that does not exist. you're just gonna die a lonely old man

[Jamie05rhs]

"Historically chinese people were almost always virgins prior to marriage. Traditionally most couples were brought together by matchmakers and families. People typically stay married to their spouses brought by their matchmakers for the rest of their lives. There was no such thing as experimenting sex with boyfriends, there was no such thing as dating around. People just met through a matchmaker and if they liked each other, they just married a few weeks or months later.

So let me get to my point:

when people date around, experiment with all sorts of different guys... this leads to a lot of temptation if they ever do get married. Because they will COMPARE their husbands to their previous exes. For example, if your ex was ridiculous amazing in bed. You love your husband but your husband simply cannot sexually fulfill you like your ex. You miss that feeling. So what do you do? YOU CHEAT!!!"

Once again, I AGREE!! 👍👍💯

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker I'd rather die alone than die in misery married to a bitch.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

Premarital sex is not the only thing that leads to infidelity. Dating around can also be harmful.
You can be comparing your own wife to your ex. Perhaps you had an ex girlfriend who had qualities and fulfilled you in ways that your wife can't. Maybe you love your ex more than your wife. Maybe you had "the one that got away".

[I'd rather die alone than die in misery married to a bitch.]

Marriage is not always happy. Just ask michelle obama. Ask anyone who has been married for a very long time: Vast majority of them are going to tell you that they've had rough patches. Some married couples even fall in and out of love with each other over the years.

Honestly after interacting with you for such a long time and doing an assessment of everything you've said,
I do not believe you resonate with foreign values. I do not believe you have family values. I just think that you're the typical American with the typical American values. Someone like you will not be able to stay married once your marriage hits a rough patch. And I honestly think there is a significantly bigger chance that you will never marry than marry.

[Jamie05rhs]

"You can be comparing your own wife to your ex. Perhaps you had an ex girlfriend who had qualities and fulfilled you in ways that your wife can't. Maybe you love your ex more than your wife. Maybe you had "the one that got away"."
You're wrong again. Haha. If she doesn't have the qualities that I'm looking for, then she WOULDN'T BE my wife! Because I'm not marrying her.

[Jamie05rhs]

"And I honestly think there is a significantly bigger chance that you will never marry than marry.". Good. 👍👍. Thank you. We are in agreement. The matter is settled.

[Asker]

@jamie05rhs

According to warren buffet, one of the worlds most brilliant richest investors. A man in his 90s who had been married for almost 70 years. He says the secret to the longest lasting marriages are: low expectations

If you dont believe me, take a look at this video:

h ttps://www. instagram. com/reel/CsFQFDDP0kn/? igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[Asker]

[You're wrong again. Haha. If she doesn't have the qualities that I'm looking for, then she WOULDN'T BE my wife! Because I'm not marrying her.]

What if you saw her as the "love of your life" but she rejected you. What if she was the woman you loved the most but unfortunate circumstances forbid you both to be together?

I can tell you have no relationship experience

[ZackBan]

You're close but not entirely spot on.

It's a real documented phenomenon in global cultural studies.

There are cultures like the US who raise their youth with an individualist mindset where personal success and well-being is placed above all else.

And other cultures in a lot of countries like the ones you named who are raised to seek group success and would put family over their own individual needs as to them the real success in life comes from having a strong family.

Typically individuals countires are more business oriented it's the places where a kid moves out at 18 and starts building a life for him/herself.

The others have kids live at home without being shamed about it at all until they are settling down in a marriage basically never facing life's trials alone, these countires have healthier values and a better education system but ultimately are poor as they fail to be very successful in business

[CCammiee14]

I don't know about the better education or healthier values part (not disagreeing just literally not sure), but I'd say this is a generally well worded and clear response.

[BCA6010]

Sort of... Romantic notions of marriage in the US originate from Europe, and are still relatively common in western Europe. The push against children and for prioritizing sexual pleasure over establishing families and nurturing a successful lineage is a fairly recent development in the west that can be most accurately attributed to the sexual revolution, which has in turn confused millions over the differences between love and lust. Other developments, such as widespread and liberal access to abortion, the decline of religious-based morals, unrealistic depictions of relationships in media, easy and early access to pornography, and hookup culture promoted by dating apps have made the trend significantly worse in a short period of time.

[Lynx122]

Yes in asia often the parents decide if they like someone it's a lot more pragmatic and calculating but it can also be a way to create stability, because romance can fade but the parents usually look for things that will be long term benefits for their child and family. I think this approach is fading in asia too but it will probably still take some generations before it really swings. I think chosing a partner is not much different than the other challenges in life so if you have the right mindset and priorities it should be ok even with hormones in play. But a lot of people make bad decisions in life and in chosing their partners sand that won't change soon.

[liburnia]

Western view of love has turned into egoism. All about receiving, not giving. We want our partner to treat us as God, but we don't give the same amount of attention, love, and care to our partner. All of my needs are supposed to be met because I'm worthy.
The other cultures you mentioned are not as selfish and realize that marriage is a compromise, that love is selflessness, and that we have to give as much as we receive. They've come to peace with marriage being an everyday struggle to keep each other happy and keep the love alive. They are cultivating their love over time. We, Westerners think love is something self-evident and we don't have to do anything to keep it alive. Being so, we became more and more disappointed in the institution of marriage, since it didn't turn out to be what we have expected... lifetime honeymoon. The point is that Westerners became rotten spoiled and selfish

[SaRang21]

Marrying for romance only is dangerous because when passion fades, marriage will fall apart.
Marrying for settling down is also miserable because it’ll be a loveless marriage.
Everybody seems to have their own reasons for getting married.
Whatever reason it is, be sure before marriage that it’s they person you really want to be with for the rest of your life, they person you wanna stay with during storms and trials.

[RavVid]

I don't think Romance is unknown in other cultures even if marrying for it is unusual.

Australian Aborigines are a very old culture but there was an account of a young couple being burnt for what they did. So I would suggest romance goes back a long way. Helen of Troy goes back to 10,000 BC. It isn't something that was invented back in the medieval times with chivalry.

Other culture prioritize differently and arranged marriages do work. I'm not sure that liking a girl's tits is the best basis for marriage. A lot of us realize that and decide not to sign up.

[Phoenix98]

It's a mix of love, religion and my own personal reasons.

The main issues with people in the west regarding marriage is that the concept of marriage is constantly under attack and people in general just don't have the patience for it everyone is out there looking for a quick solution to everything and they progress things far to quickly far to soon. Resulting in them making a commitment they aren't ready for to someone they don't know as well as they should. And it doesn't take a genius to see that kind of marriage isn't going to work out.

[CCammiee14]

This exactly. To be fair that the kind of "love" and marriages you'd see in movies. In the cheesy romances, the quirky girl, bumps into a guy and drops her books or something and he helps her pick it up and boom they're in love now and two days later he proposes.

[Phoenix98]

@CCammiee14 True though stuff like that can happen in real life and work out to in rare instances like my parents marriage. But for most people yeah that's not realistic.

[Hearts4u]

Right, and then they build no emotional bond and treat the other like a roommate and argue everyday, and lash out on their kids for not going by their “morals” I honestly don’t like the idea of getting married just for stability. That’s never a happy marriage.

[Asker]

just because you are not passionately "in love" , it doesn't mean you don't care about the other person. you are not happy being in a marriage like that because you only crave the feeling of passionate romance- which is not the answer to a forever marriage. people in the us primarily marry for love and half of you will divorce eventually. the west has one of the highest divorce rates in the world.

[juene]

I think the main reason why people get married is because they love each other.

But in other culture, they still practice fixed marriage which can be good and bad. Some end up falling for each other and building their family and living a happy life, but some are just merely roomates with kids. As per my friend described.

[Asker]

but think about dying all alone with nobody to care for you. Imagine losing your job at 50 and going homeless while your married counterparts can still have their spouses supporting them.

[CCammiee14]

@asker you're still going to be miserable if you don't love the person taking care of you. Imagine someone taking care of you simply out of duty instead of because they genuinely care about you and want you to be well. That sounds sad and lonely.

[juene]

I agree with you, @CCammiee14. I'd rather die alone than have a bad marriage.

@Asker remember, kids can't choose their father but we can choose our partners/husband. A loving family starts with a loving couple 😊

But that's just my opinion. Everyone has their own preference. 😊

[Asker]

@CCammiee14 @juene

just because there isn't necessarily romance , it doesn't mean you don't care about the person. you can love each other without being in love with each other. Just as you love a friend, your sister, your brother, your uncle. And when you've been with each other for 30 years, there is a lot of sentiment to that.

Data already proves that the longest lasting marriages are the ones where people who were together based on necessity and practicality. The shortest marriages (western marriages) are primarily based on feelings and romance.

the reason why you would be so miserable in a marriage out of necessity is because you want to be "in love". But record has it that being "in love" really is not the answer to a long lasting marriage.

[Asker]

divorce rates started rising after couples began marrying for romance rather than out of necessity in the 1970s. People have always married out of necessity and practicality prior to 1970.

[UnknownSwede]

One thing I don't understand is that people have children as a retirement plan, for them to take care of them when they get old. There are plenty of selfish reasons to have children and that's why I definitely don't see any problem with people who seem proud to not have children.

[hahahmm]

Sure. If you marry someone just because of your feelings it's a bad idea since feelings can come and go. I think the myth of romance was created to fool men into marrying women who have little to nothing to offer. It benefits her IF the guy has better income than her. When they divorce she's going to get half of his stuff, alimony, child support and th ekids. And he's going to get some old wedding pics.

[molonski2]

Virtually NO culture has the ludicrous idea that " romance " being " swept off your feet " is some kind of viable option , and its simply NOT , the idea is idiotic , work with the obvious , the plus and minuses of the sexes , and the issues that really matter , this declaration of " love " is just purely ludicrous , and thats why the West runs at 70/30 divorce rate ( counting real divorce - maybe not actual divorce ) , because IT doesn't WORK ! #suprise

[TheSpaceGnome]

Poorer countries tend to have more people that marry for money and security, if you do that in the US however, its considered gold digging, and is a reason to not marry someone.

Yes, its MUCH better to be alone than to have a loveless marriage. People should be able to financially support themselves, and having kids is optional.

[Asker]

just because you are not in love, it doesn't mean it has to be a cold loveless marriage.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Actually, it means exactly that.

[CCammiee14]

@Asker but yes it does. If you're not in love, then that is infact the definition of a loveless marriage. Y'all can be cordial with each other sure, but I can't imagine sleeping and giving my body to someone who basically just a "friend" I'm raising kids with. Y'all are basically just roommates at that point who vow never to move out. I can't imagine it's as motivating to care for a family with there isn't a connection between y'all.

[TheSpaceGnome]

@CCammiee14 Yup.

[Asker]

@thespacegnome @ccammiee14

Loving someone is a choice. You just don't want to love them because you crave something better.
Its totally possible to love someone platonically.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Thats not a relationship.

[slatyb]

It's part of the dichotomy between tribalism and individualism. Individual's says that people should marry (and do everything else) as they please. Tribalism says that people have a duty to the tribe (community) that raised them, and should choose a partner from that community, have children and raise them in that community, and use their talents to in service to their community.

[stepyo99]

Romance is a big part of western culture, but what's really killed marriage in the west is feminism, sexual liberation, hollywood, and the porn industry. These issues have sowed division between men and women and portrayed wildly unrealistic expectations of what love is.

[imawfulatusernames]

No. While marriages in some sense have existed for a long time for convenience or reason they’ve also always existed because people wanted to be with each other. There is no way of knowing why people before a certain time or even very recently chose to be with each other we have a huge amount of proof that people have constantly tried to be paired or have deliberately make themselves so.

[Asker]

you're too young to know what marriages were like back then. marriages 100 years ago were different from marriages now.

[imawfulatusernames]

I’m too young to comprehend history? Are you 159?

[imawfulatusernames]

You’re at most 3 years older than me let’s not pretend you’re all knowing 😅

[Asker]

I'm almost 10 years older than you. I'm 28

[imawfulatusernames]

You’re 18-24 let’s not lie babe

[Asker]

I don't let gag know my personal information.

[imawfulatusernames]

Okay sure honey

[CCammiee14]

@asker From your comments I've read you sound like you're not American so if anyone shouldn't be telling someone what American marriage was like back then it's you. Also if you are truly only 28, then you too are too young to understand what marriage was like back then even if you were American.

[Asker]

@CCammiee14

why would anyone listen to an American for marriage advice? none of you can even stay married. people in other cultures can actually stay married.

[Anonymous]

i was raised in the west but ethnically and culturally south Asian, i personally find that security is more important than love - if i ever loved someone i didn't think i could have a safe/secure future with i wouldn't marry them maybe not even date them - of course i would want to like them and grow to love them but i'm reluctant to marry JUST for love

[AnusNdaPainus]

Yes fairytales were supposed to be just that

Everyone has this Disney fantasy of “Happily ever after”

But when Life happens then they want to divorce because they aren’t happy anymore

https://www.youtube.com/embed/OhVNldU127k

[007kingifrit]

yes, ever since we started dating in the modern sense female happiness has been in decline. female happiness peaked in 1972. dating for pure romance is impractical, romance always fades with time, you need goals and values. a relationship is economically sensible as it helps you save money

[najekim]

It depends on your upbringing. "Western culture" usually means that most aspects of it was forced onto people by some religious dogma. Whilst in other parts of the world, being "mated" was good enough for more logical or practical reasons including feelings for each other.

[itsalyssaagain]

Personally I think a healthy marriage takes both aspects into consideration. There needs to be some feelings but there also needs to be a sense of responsibility.

[sheenagwapa]

i marry for romance and i'm Filipino although i'm afraid to be poor but if you love me and i love you i am willinh to suffer in the name of love. in my life apart from Jesus romantic love is my top most priority

[JustMeL120]

That how we think here in Europe. I think what you referring to is settling down. Yes it's what people do here.

[Asker]

and its people like that tend to have forever lasting marriages. people in america date 10 people to find their "soulmate" then 15 years later, they divorce and say they married the wrong person.

[JustMeL120]

Here we don't really believe in soul mates.

[Mallic00]

This is what people in the west don't understand. Marriage at its core is little more then a glorified contract. If you truly love someone why do you need a piece of paper to prove it? And with it becoming so much more of a hassle once you are married and trying to break it off, its no surprise that some people are just deciding its better to never get married in the first place.

[DermalPunch]

Marriage based on love is a new concept in human history. It is a flimsy thing to base a marriage on.

[Asker]

why do you think people were able to stay married back then but not now?

[DermalPunch]

Because they weren't selfish and had patience.

[Rockstarrrrr]

I think everywhere very few people marry for romance... It's almost always just for the benefits... and that's why most people are unhappy with their marriage...

[Asker]

most people marry for romance and have high expectations, thats why so many of them divorce

[Rockstarrrrr]

It seems to me it's the other way 🤷‍♂️

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

I heard around 50% of marriages in Japan are still arranged. I also heard a comment (in an anime) that the West introduced romance to Japanese culture.

[elizamichale1]

It seems so n now a days more people r like running away from marriages tbh

[Asker]

because they know they can't stay married

[elizamichale1]

Yeah u r right

[LaFemmeFatale_1]

After living in Asia, I realize that might be true.

[jshm2]

Don't be silly. They barely marry at all these days in the West. Most live like fucking animals.

[CallmeTheKnight]

Marriage is a part of our lives if we choose for it to be. The reason the divorce rates are high is because the wrong type of people get married and don’t see it as a next step in life

[Legendarylegacy13]

People get married or stay married for different reasons it could be because of kids , romance , finances , anything I guess romance is just the first part.

[Anonymous]

I agree with your summation. There is a major difference and it's a major problem b/c this way of thinking is a mistake and leads to lots of social disruption and financial break down. Other countries are doing it better

[Opinion Owner]

Your supposed to find a solid man that treats you right not MR perfect.

[Asker]

funny thing is... americans are proud to divorce. breaking up families is not seen as a bad thing here. its seen as something that is inevitable. it shocks me how people with this type of a mentality even get married.

[Opinion Owner]

yeah it sucks. There is nothing you can do about it

[Jamie05rhs]

@Asker I agree with you!

[Twalli]

Actually it's due to marrying for lust and marrying someone you like, but don't want to spend all your time with leading to gray divorce (people who only got divorced once both were retired, or working from home).

[asphaltrhymes]

I'd say so and in others it's for property rights or power struggles ahahaha

[strateguy632]

yes culture, in the past for parents business but now due to fairy tales and the possibility

[Iron_Man]

It should be out of love and want to live together forever

[Asker]

thats why your divorce rates sit at 50%. because your marriage is only based on how you feel. feelings are fickle. they change way more than you think

[LazerBean]

No, our divorce rates are because sleeping around makes people damaged, and damaged people can't stay in a relationship unless it's for money.

[Iron_Man]

@LazerBean well said

[Asker]

@LazerBean

it has nothing to do with sleeping around. your divorce rate sits at 50% because you have an unrealistic idea of marriage. your expectations are too high. marriage is not supposed to be about joy or being elated or happy. ask any married person who has stayed in a long term marriage and they will tell you that marriage can be unhappy for months or even years. but its their choice to stay married and persevere.

even michelle obama said that. i can link if you want

[LazerBean]

Mhmmm. And guess who is going to stick it out in marriage? Not you hoes who have been around the block and have no ability to bond anymore.

@Iron_Man thanks. They never want to hear the facts tho lol

[Asker]

@iron_man @lazerbean

Michelle Obama says she wasn't happy with Barack for 10 of their 30 years they've been married, because marriage is 'hard'

"In this day and age, marriage is more about the dress, and the dresses, and the proposal, and the honeymoon and all the stuff around it. And young people aren't ready for the real of marriage," she told King.

"A lot of young people quit on marriage over things that are just a part of the commitment," she said.

"I share these things because marriage is hard," Obama said. "It's incumbent upon us — people who have had successful marriages — to be really honest about the fact that making a commitment to be with someone means you compromise, and compromise ain't always fun," she said.

[Asker]

h ttps://www. businessinsider. com/michelle-obama-said-didnt-like-barack-10-years-of-marriage-2023-4

[Asker]

@LazerBean

when your marriage is based off of how you feel. the chances of it lasting forever is low. feelings are fickle. they change over time

[LazerBean]

Who does things based off of feelings and not logic? People who sleep around. You're proving my point.

[Asker]

@LazerBean

sleeping around occurs in carribean and African countries too. its not only limited to the us. so why can they stay married but you can't?

[Iron_Man]

@LazerBean I don’t even wanna waste my time arguing with a 15-year-old she’s got a lot to learn

[Iron_Man]

Oops she was in the other thread

[LazerBean]

@Iron_Man indeed, hoes will do anything but look at facts for relationship success

[Asker]

@LazerBean

A hoe can stay married. But someone who divorces whenever they are unhappy , won't be able to stay married

[LazerBean]

@Jamie05rhs sharp as ever 👍🏻

[Jamie05rhs]

@LazerBean Thanks!

[Asker]

@LazerBean

continue looking for something better then... thats why americans like you can't ever stay married.

[Jamie05rhs]

She doesn't have to look for anything better. She already has a great man.

[Asker]

@Jamie05rhs

americans are known to be unable to stay married... check the data. you have one of the highest divorce rates in the world. the last thing i would do is to ask an American for marriage advice.

[DummyThiccFeraligatr]

Yes. Historically - even when it still wasn't super common - the West was basically the only place that fostered the idea of falling in love and getting married.

[AliSulayman]

No it’s the core thing for modern marriages in the east as well. people wanna live the scenarios they see in movies and series, and usually turn their relationship into one!

[Christoff92]

Pretty much yes. Because of how popular the culture of marrying now and these days. In non-western culturism is ain't a option. That's what's really one of the many reasons for overpopulation 🫤

[boobliker]

it was to be as one eg the couple would be as one in all but eachother, Tax, Benfits and income. that has now all gone and it's now only God and love?

[LiamJHayden]

Seems to be. Which leads to many or most marriages being based primarily upon "feelings" rather than commitment, which in turn leads to the high divorce rate because feelings change.

[Anonymous]

probably because the united states screws over everyone here. it's not like other countries at all.

[lolligaggin]

Mostly, yes, and also for everyone throughout all of history prior. Marriage for love is a relatively new concept.

[Andres77]

It's the hope of just about every woman throughout all of history. But culturally it's not permitted in some places.

[msc545]

No. In the US everything is done for money. We marry for money, and most importantly we get divorced for money. That is the real reason the divorce rate is 70% of this time and increasing daily.

[Spade_01]

I'm surprised marriage is even common in the West lol

[poetic_pisces]

Many people all over the world marry only because of love

Not only in the west.

[runnerboy]

Hard to say since marriage is not even on my radar at this time

[CuriousMufuxka]

Only with a prenup! Nah really I've seen more of it's just the thing to do, like tradition that's gone wrong in the past 60 years.

[KrakenAttackin]

Yes, marriage is a disaster in the U. S. Once marriage became Man--GOVERNMENT--woman, marriage died in the west.