Do you agree that marriage is financial suicide for men?

[msc545]

I agree

I disagree

[Chazmatazz269]

It’s not exactly a guarantee, but if we enforced “until death do we part” by law, i bet far fewer men would even consider it. Very few people on earth would accept a 70% chance of death for anything.
The US Civil War resulted in more American casualties than all other wars combined. About 2% of men died in that war, and we’ve had draft dodging ever since.
Which leads me to a point that i only recently put together. Men are still marrying because we are socialized from birth to be self sacrificing. Our entire value is based on our willingness and ability to provide and protect. If you can’t do both, you’re not much of a man. If you can’t do either, you’re no man at all.
That’s exactly why we sign up for military service, law enforcement, firefighting, and even marriage, when there is so very little benefit to us in it. We’re even quicker to jump into dangerous and deadly scenarios that we would simultaneously protect women and children from, as long as there’s a decent paycheck in it. Who gets rescued from the sinking ship first?
Warren Farrell wrote extensively about this natural fact in “The Myth of Male Power”.
It’s been a while since i read it, but i don’t think he ever directly correlated it to a divorce and family courts system stacked completely against men.

[msc545]

You are certainly correct about this, but I think the "until death do us part" thing is a little over the top, considering how many women cheat - we would wind up killing a majority of them.

I am waiting for Warren, who is still with us, to publish a new, updated edition.

[OneViewpoint]

I disagree. The statement I can agree with is, "marriage is potential financial suicide for men".

There is no certainty that a given marriage will deteriorate into a nasty contentious divorce with years of back and forth revenge sniping in the courts.

But there is also no guarantee that any given marriage will be a magical forever love with perfect children and a perfect house with a white picket fence.

In between the heaven and hell scenarios there are kids born with birth defects and career crashes and car accidents and natural disasters and addiction and that hot neighbor who wants you to come over and "check her pipes".

And then there is the eternal question of "single moms". Should a guy sign up to take responsibility for raising the children of some baby daddy who has fled the scene to avoid child support? If she made one bad decision, will she make more? If you get divorced, do you end up paying child support for kids you never legally adopted? Does she love you or is she desperate for a lifeline because she's drowning on her own?

Life is full of risks and complex decisions.

[msc545]

You've missed the part about the role the family law courts play in this problem. They are the part of the system that awards women everything and impoverishes men in order to do so.

[OneViewpoint]

No I didn't miss it. That was literally my first point. Or it was intended to be. Maybe it doesn't read as I intended it.

[msc545]

Fine, "potential suicide". Does that make it somehow better?

[OneViewpoint]

Yes. Marriage is not guaranteed to end in disaster. Plenty of marriages end up OK enough for both parties. And if it does end in divorce, it's not a forgone conclusion that every woman will be an angry vengeful witch in court. But yeah, potentially you end up with an angry vengeful gold digging witch in court until the kids turn 18. And that is truly a destruction of multiple lives.

[msc545]

You also very often wind up with a very biased family court Judge who appeases women and vilifies men. The Court is supposed to be unbiased, and it very often is not.

[OneViewpoint]

My divorce did not go that way at all. But I waited until both my sons graduated from college. And my ex and sons are all set for life. I'm free. No drama for anyone. No animosity. Just an ending. And new beginning. The price I paid to buy that was the years I waited.

[msc545]

you had a relatively good experience. Most men so not. Are you stuck with alimony?

[OneViewpoint]

No. No ongoing ties. She's set for life. As are the boys. One and done.

[msc545]

you were fortunate. Most men are not.

[Amy10223]

If it is financial suicide for men, it is the same for women too. There are two sides in a marriage. A woman can have a man who gambles his money away and drinks, as my father was, and a man can have a woman who shops for furs, clothes jewelry and things she doesn't really need. Men can also have expensive habits such as golfing and eating out at fancy places. So it's not fair to think marriage is a financial burden for men--the entire family will suffer if the two parties act foolishly with money. Live and learn.

[Shiprex]

That's not really the point though as that's about habits within the marriage and not dealing with the reasons for those habits

[Amy10223]

@Shiprex But to assume that ONLY men are at risk is not right. Women are at risk as well. The way I understand the question, it is asking if we agree that marriage is financial suicide for MEN. It can be, if he has a bad marriage partner, OR if he himself has habits he cannot control even while being married. Two incomes are always better than one. But along with that, comes two mouths to feed. Both partners have to come up with a good financial plan that will keep them afloat of any financial burdens.

[msc545]

Women do not get trashed financially in family law courts. Men do.

[Shiprex]

@amy10223 I get that however if the marriage fails children are generally "given" to mothers as PRIMARY care givers and men are expected to "buy" access as well as support the woman even if she chose to end it. If he finds or starts another relationship he still often has to support her through alimony EVEN IF SHE ENDED IT. It's a scam.

[msc545]

@Shiprex Yes, thank you. Don't forget child support, which is very often not used for children but instead used as luxury money by the mother.

Child support is very occasionally awarded to men who have custody of their children (a rare thing), but it is never enforced against women. It is vigorously enforced against men.

[Shiprex]

@msc545
There you go, further evidence men are the only ones forced to support others.

[Amy10223]

I was answering the question based on the assumption that the couple would not separate. You’re both now adding that possibility, plus the possibility of children as well.
I think courts will side with the woman being she is the caretaker, even if she works. They assume the man and his job are in jeopardy taking care of the children if there are any. But of course there are instances where the children are given to the father, in cases where the mother is accused of adultery or is mentally unfit to care for them.
But let’s assume there are no children. Then both parties can suffer. It’s not just the man who is in jeopardy of barely surviving when finance and the way they handle money is a problem.

[Amy10223]

And, I was one of those mothers who had child support for my two teenagers. It was not “luxury money” ever for me. Every dime went to clothes my girls and feed them. It was not a lot because they based it on your income.
So if you’re living on a teachers salary with two teens. single, and living in NJ , you’re going to have a hard time paying a mortgage even with that child support.
Remember guys, there are always exceptions.

[Shiprex]

It's based on incomes and living standards during the marriage which HE is more likely to have provided but she gets to benefit. HE won't get that same "lifestyle" now though because he has to keep her in that state as well.

[Caroline91]

Marriage isn't, but divorce can be. Not just for men, but for women too. I hear men complain all the time about how women come out on top in a divorce, but statistics don't bear that out as being generally true. Divorce often has a more significant negative financial impact on women than men, with women experiencing a greater decrease in income and standard of living after separation. Either way, it's horrible for everyone concerned. So if you want to be married, choose your partner carefully and stick with it.

[msc545]

Sure, women come out badly. Why, sometimes they even have to WORK!

Oh, the horror of it!

[Amy10223]

Very true! Thank you.

[AviatorTom]

No marriage has several economic benefits. Two incomes for one home, Lower taxes to name a few.

Divorce IS a financial hardship for men. When I got divorced, my net worth got cut in half.

[AMS700CX4u2]

Between 1972 and 2010 the cost of living increased approximately 10 fold. If I had not been married, I could have not kept up with it. We never kept separate checkbooks. It was all about the family. Two people working to achieve the same goal, Providing for our children. Growth occurs when you change Selfishness to Selflessness,

[msc545]

@AMS700CX4u2 Unfortunately, most women are selfish, and family law courts support and encourage that.

[AMS700CX4u2]

The 1980 were labeled the ME generation. No we involved any more. Not our Car but My Car, Not our house but My house. Not our boat but My boat. Not exactly encouraging

[Jessica405]

My partner and I work together. Both get same salary. Def not financial suicide! Share all bills

[Sevenpointfive]

yes. prenups should be mandatory and alimony shouldn't exist. i do get child support, but it's not done right.

i know many women who have stayed with the guy until their kids turned 18 and then left. some don't wait until after they are sure they are pregnant. i do not trust women at all in a rigged system catering to women.

[Sevenpointfive]

also, i think if a woman is going to receive child support, then they should automatically have CPS on their asses!

[MisterWack]

Disagree.

You should date a person for a long time to understand their role in a possible marriage, also figure out your own role in that marriage. If it doesn’t seem marriage will work out then don’t jump / rush into things.

If you don’t have careful judgement to know if that person is going to jeopardize your life / have it end in divorce then you shouldn’t marry. I’ve seen couples who stay boyfriend and girlfriend, never marry so that is always on the table if you are upfront about that sort of thing, on the same page definitely helps.

[msc545]

Most odf the time none of this will help a man.

[MisterWack]

@msc545 In my family, I’ve seen clueless guys get married which ends in divorce.
I believe if they got this advice from their parents (who weren’t the best guardians) it would’ve minimized the chance.

[msc545]

how do define and measure the things that allegedly matter prior to marriage?

[msc545]

sorry - should be "How do you "

[MisterWack]

@msc545 They weren’t taught about what a healthy relationship looks like and feels like… Under abusive / closed off parents who didn’t show affection I guess that played a role. Had abusive and mean teachers too. Just assumed that is how the world operates, especially toward them. They were very delayed for their respected ages so, also played a key component.

Learn about communication, compromises, compassion, understanding as it pertains to relationships along with Consent.

Then the other things I mentioned. All those should be taught and it all matters to marriage.
Marriage is for love, if you don’t feel you two are speaking the same language / don’t want to go down the same path then you shouldn’t take that risk or it increases likelihood of divorce.

Learning about financial burden too can definitely help.

[msc545]

None of that will change the bias in family law courts. That is the real problem along with the greed of women.

[MisterWack]

@msc545 Yeah fix the family law courts, I agree. It is also the fact you need to know the person well enough before marrying or just never marry and agree on staying boyfriend/girlfriend. “greed of women” though… A family member literally married a woman just for control of her family’s wealth. It can happen on both sides.

[Justneedtokno]

Not in today’s economy and even back then most people got together for political or financial gain, anyway marrying of houses. And if we’re looking at today’s economy having Backup if Amanda does lose his job in a situation having someone help is less stressful.

[Sun_Kim-Ai]

Depends, not for me.

I got a nice house out of it and I'm going to make a good buck selling it off. Plus here prenups are actually enforceable so I am not losing anything and I'll remain a partner in her business.

[msc545]

Prenups can be in the for unless the judge thinks that there's something unfair about them and what often happens is that the judge thinks that there is something to care about them than it usually is something that supposedly disadvantages the woman. In that case, the judge either throws out the whole document or modifies it. This happens often enough that getting a prenup is considered a waste of time and money by most lawyers.

[Sun_Kim-Ai]

Doesn't work that way in my country...

[msc545]

It works that way in the US

[Sun_Kim-Ai]

Sucks for you, sorry about that

[msc545]

Yes it's really bad here. It's bad to the point that men are refusing to get married because of it.

[Sun_Kim-Ai]

I don't undestand how it can be that extreme.
We are filing for divorce literally next week and I couldn't be more relaxed about it. What's mine is mine, what's hers is hers and what's split its 50/50.

One thing I don't like about the US is that everything sounds so extreme, in every facet of life.

[msc545]

It is in fact that extreme. Divorce courts heavily favor women to the point of making men bankrupt in order to support women who don't work and don't care for children and don't really do anything except shop and spend time having sex.

[Gwendoline]

Depends largely on the woman. The wrong woman can destroy a man, the right one can build him up and bring joy to his life.

[Shiprex]

Are girls taught that when they grow up though as boys are taught to treat women well

[Gwendoline]

@Shiprex if they were raised right they are. That's why if a mother hates the girl you are dating you should think why

[Shiprex]

@gwendoline
this could be true but is it the general rule as these days it seems not to be the case

[msc545]

@Shiprex More often, it seems that women educate their daughters on how to take advantage of men, since the mother is often doing the same thing to the father.

[Shiprex]

That is common these days unfortunately. It's more on social media that's influencing them.

[BCRanger10]

No, it is not. Sure, men and women each in general need a lot of fixing - A. LOT...of fixing - and there is a lot that needs to be fixed in marriage and divorce laws, but marriage itself? No.

[IHaveRespawned]

I am engaged 💍 to be married. I am broke right now due to a career transition. My fiance helps contribute. It helps for spouses to support each other in time's need.

[Kingofkings1992]

If you’re marrying the wrong type of woman, then it has the POTENTIAL to be, yes. But saying ANY marriage outright is financial suicide is a bit of a stretch. This is asserting that all women are evil bitches who are just out to screw over men, which I don’t think is the case.

[XXblack88]

If your a traditional man yes. if your a modern-day man no cause you never agree to financially support you + everyone else who lives under the household on your own.

[NathanDavis]

no, but there's much better people in my life... so I do have a positive view of marriage and love

[MrChinaski]

To quote Warren Buffet: The first rule of wealth accumulation is to marry once.

[PeachyPie93]

Not really.. it only is if you marry a pos only with you for your cash.

[Apple1996]

Nope marrying my husband made him a lot more wealthy than what he would have been without me

[Sam1133]

🤣🤣🤣

[Razp_Sorbet]

No... there's prenuptial agreements for a reason.

[msc545]

Prenuptial agreements are worthless. Family law courts can and do modify them in favor of women all the time.

[beefcakebradybatson]

FAR too often.

[serious]

Yes I do.

[soe11]

• Absolutely.

[goaded]

My wife earns twice what I could. So no.

[Staximus]

Maybe if you're stupid and marry a lunatic

[Chocolatetwopointtwo]

why would it be?