Do you ever feel like we blame the “effect” and give a pass to the “cause?”?

[WhiteSteve]

One thing that would happen to me a lot in my time as a bouncer, a football player, and now as a (heavy air quotes) hockey player is people actively disrespecting me, maybe trying to goad me into something, maybe not, but always them being an asshole without provocation from me. You can think it’s ridiculous or not, but disrespect will get the worst out me. I could throw my whole life away over intentional disrespect, which sounds crazy when cool-headed me is typing it, but seems like the logical solution when I lose control of myself. Needless to say that has caused some negative situations in the past, to put it politely.

I have to own my response, as unintentional and unconscious as it might be. There have definitely been times when people have just been like “holy fuck, dude, take it easy!”, and I get it, but it really pisses me off that no one is mad at the person who brought this out of me, because it’s not like I just flip for nothing. You have to do something egregious to get me there. What you do might not be as loud, or as physical, but you’re still every bit the asshole for creating the environment for a situation like that to transpire. I’m not blame-free, but I’m not even there without you doing something first.

So I guess I’m saying I feel like the quiet “cause” gets dismissed, and the blame just completely shifts to the noisy “effect”, and I think that’s pretty off-base if you ask me. I very much reject the notion that I or anyone else should just be able to absorb whatever mistreatment we experience and not react, and if we do, everything is our fault. That really feels like a cop-out for the more common “quiet offender” to get away with doing stupid shit and then spinning it around on whoever calls them out or reacts to their bad behavior.

Yes, we blame the “effect” too much

No, the “effect” is wrong

It depends

I’ll take The Physical Challenge

[NathanDavis]

I had a couple of friends that could become like this, my younger brother could have become like this...

especially with my younger brother, who could be impulsive, I always gave him shit for this, same as my two other friends (they were all younger than me too) and the reason why I was always mad them and the idiots who caused is very simple...

I love my brother, and really liked my friends... and I could not give less of a fuck about some random idiot doing stupid shit, see... the reason why I get upset and mad is because I know fighting and violent men more than I should, and I know what fighting and brawling can do to people...

one of these days, you could get killed, as simple as that... killed, paralyzed, jailed, in a coma... so many ways in which you could get messed up badly and for what? over what? over some stupid asshole out there that means nothing to me? or means less to me

I love my younger brother probably more than anyone in this world... he's still around, and I was able to smack this impulsiveness out of him, took me years but we got there, same with my friend, one of them... also smacked him into being less impulsive

the third friend... I tried, but he didn't get it, he didn't change much... he hurt someone really bad one day, and he got jailed... and once in jail, he got into many fights because of the obvious disrespect and well... before the month was over, there was a funeral for him, so...

maybe the people around you just really loves you... I think so

[WhiteSteve]

I appreciate your story and it’s all valid, but I think in the situations I’m talking about, the people who are blaming me are usually people I don’t know or don’t know well. They don’t care for my fate, they’re offended by the spectacle of my response.

[WindAtMyBack]

Yes it is common to blame the effect and not the cause. But you have to be careful.

Let's say I give a 3 year old child a loaded gun.
I also give a 30 year old adult a loaded gun.
Each of them kills someone with the gun.

In both cases I provided the **opportunity** for the person to kill someone. But there is an obvious difference. In the first case I am far more to blame than in the second case.

The situation you describe is more like the second case. Providing the opportunity is not the same as being the cause.

[WhiteSteve]

I hear that. I guess in my specific situation (in sports, not as a bouncer) it starts from incidental contact, accidents of some sort, usually. I’m reflexively apologetic in those situations, even if I’m unsure if I’m even to blame, but when that kindness gets rejected and met with hostility…. I’m off the leash. It just seems fucked up that if I were to walk/skate away, he’d get labeled as the asshole for his light verbal or physical abuse, but then no one cares what they did if I respond louder and/or more forcefully. Now I’m the asshole, and I’d certainly wear some of that, but no one is like “But they definitely shouldn’t have done X/Y/Z to you either”, it’s like all the focus would be on me and only me

[WindAtMyBack]

Hockey is a pretty aggressive game and can get pretty rough. You need to take your cue from the other players.

I played soccer and it could get pretty rough, especially against some of the inner city teams. Some of those guys would play dirty any chance they got when the ref wasn't looking. They'd do shit that was banned for a good reason - because it's really dangerous. My team never played dirty, but we could get pretty aggressive if the other team was playing rough. I still have an injury 50 years later because of aggressive play.

[Massageman]

People need to be help responsible for their actions. Just like these people who glued themselves to the road to stop the macy's parade (lower case intentional) . Even though I hate the ongoing degradation of the content of the parade, the people should just get paraded over if they are stupid enough to glue themselves to the road. After the first few dolts get squashed, maybe the others will see the light (yeah, I know it's a long shot).

[WhiteSteve]

Lmao, I didn’t hear about that yet. I don’t want anyone run over, but cementing yourself to the road is certified dumb shit, just on a personal level, before you even get into inconveniencing others

[lightbulb27]

I'd be actively seeking Jesus inside, numbe one.

Number two... I'd wonder what emotional wounds happened in childhood to make you look like a worthy victim of others abuse. That's how it works, people will prey upon others they perceive as victims or weak... it's not physical, it's psychological. Sort of like "kicking the person whom is down"... emotionally. It's sick, but they do that. The result is when you overcome those emotional blocks, you rise up... and no longer react to their ploys, so the perpetrators lose their power!

Yes some blame the effect. But I generally try to gravitate to the roots of the issues. The root issues are in the sub conscious mind, in childhood. Those wounds control, until healed. Trauma... beliefs... are in control...

[spartan55]

A truth across all sports is that the dude who retaliates typically gets the penalty/flag (effect), never the dickhead who started it with a cheap shot (cause).

[WhiteSteve]

I know that one all too well😂

[spartan55]

As Beer League enforcer that's daily protocol... 😂 🏒

[Joshydavid25]

Yeah, I agree, I guess it depends on how reckless the effect is that people take a look at it and think "Alright, man chill".. The logical choice would be to look at the cause while still examining that the effect could have been better.. But people being the emotional beings that we are respond to the one that brings it out of is the most.

[Pohjolan]

There's a Finnish proverb;

If you dig your nose long enough you will eventually find blood.

[Billlewis]

You were a bouncer, too? Damn...