Don't Let your Fantasy of Relationships Fool You

[BigPunny]

I've been with my wife for going on 17 years now. I was 17 when we shared our first kiss and we haven't looked back since. In this time, we've dealt with just about everything a person can think of: infidelity, fighting, miscommunication, puppy love, etc. Because of these experiences, I have a better understanding of how a relationship functions and I'd like to take a moment to help others understand what a healthy relationship looks like:

It looks messy!

If I were to talk about all the problems my wife and I have had, most of you would probably be like wtf is wrong with you two? and others might say that's not a healthy relationship! Many would even question why we're still together in the first place, but responses like that are often indicators of why people don't have healthy relationships - there are too many expectations placed on the 'fantasy' of marriage and relationships.

A relationship isn't the white picket fence with dogs and kiddos dressed in khakis with collared shirts. It's more like a half-broken privacy fence with a Chihuahua that won't shut the hell up and kids running around making them bark. Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that the grass isn't mowed either.

Just as porn has tainted the way people visualize sexual encounters, Hollywood has tainted the image of what a good relationship looks like. Just because that woman begs for more as the mascara runs down her face doesn't mean all women are going to love that kind of treatment! The same goes for a relationship - just because the movies show two people that never argue, call each other four-letter pet names, throw things, or slam doors doesn't mean that's how a relationship is going to turn out.

So from here on out, if you have an idea in your head that your relationship should be like this or like that, throw it away, stomp on it, and burn it if you must.

There isn't a perfect way to describe a healthy relationship; there's no image that can properly depict a healthy or proper relationship, and if there was, it would look something like this:

Some of us will look at this and say wtf is that thing while others will oooh, ahhh, purty. But just like this picture, a healthy relationship is open to interpretation and will look different to everyone. There is no uniformity to a healthy relationship and no two relationships will be the same. What works for some does not work for others. So if you are stuck on this image or fantasy of your future marriage, it's likely doomed to fail or you will be sorely disappointed if you aren't able to overcome this notion.

It is important that you realize the person you are with is unique, as are you. If the two of you fight once a week over stupid things, then so be it. If you're not fighting, it means something might well be wrong. There will be times that you will absolutely despise your partner, but in order to fix the things that are wrong, both parties must be willing to say "I'm sorry" and both parties must realize that no one is right 100% of the time.

So fight it out, if you must, but make sure you try and understand what the other is saying instead of only hearing scream, scream, scream, yell, yell, yell. Too often couples can't hear each other from all the yelling. Pay attention, because in those moments, our most vulnerable and hurtful moments, you're likely to hear the most important conversations of your marriage/relationship, and those conversations will lead to an understanding - but only if you're paying attention.

The point here is that a relationship can and will get messy before it starts to make sense. As long as you love the person, you have to be willing to sift through all those puzzle pieces to start putting together the image that embodies your relationship. After some time, some fights, some slammed doors, and even broken dishes, you'll start seeing that picture form and it hardly ever looks like the image you first had in your mind when you fantasized about your marriage or relationship.

[BlueCoyote]

I really liked your MyTake. Thank you for that ;-). I largely agree with you... though I think I see things a little differently when it comes to the part about fighting. Fighting can certainly be a healthy part of a relationship and sometimes even make a relationship healthier than it is but I wouldn't go so far as to claim that relationships where two people don't fight are relationships where something is wrong. I have been together with my girlfriend for 5 years now and generally speaking, we fight very little. Of course we have our little grumpy bitching moments like all couples do but I think we've only had about 2-3 REAL, big fights in all those years. Also, I know from one of my grandmothers that she had a very happy relationship with her lifelong husband until he died when I was three years old and according to her, they had very, very few fights.

But I completely agree with you that most people - particularly teenagers and people in their 20s - have very naive and unrealistic ideas of how a relationship should work or what a partner should be like.
My mom is a psychologist/therapist and my parents have gone through their own share of marriage troubles and from them I have learned a couple of very basic things that I believe would help many 20-something year olds if they knew and understood them:
- Use I-messages. This has nothing to do with Iphones or Ipads. "I-messages" is a term therapists use for a basic form of communication. The opposite of I-messages are you-messages. Unfortunately, 95% of all people tend to mostly use you-messages. This means that during fights or discussions, they say things like "You think of me as a bad person" or "In that situation you acted absolutely inappropriate". By talking like this, people make themselves sound very bossy, arrogant and most of all, judgmental. You-messages are bound to make the other person feel attacked, offended and hurt. I-messages on the other hand stress on the fact that a certain experience/feeling/thought is subjective. So for example you'd say "I sometimes feel like you don't value me enough". It might sound like linguistic hairsplitting but psychologically, it makes a huuuuge difference for the person you're addressing.
- From my dad I learned this: You can't change people. Even if you believe you can, you can't. There are certain things about your partner that you hate when you guys are 17 and you will hate them when you're 70. If you plan on staying together as a happy couple, you

[BlueCoyote]

must learn to accept them. For example my mom is an extremely impatient person and this can lead to some rather annoying situations. However, there's no point in trying to make her understand that she should act differently (for example when we have some kind of social get-together). She's a smart person and rationally she understands that sometimes she destroys a situation with her impatience. But there's more to a human's behavior than simple rationality. In the end, she will still end up acting in that way. So if you want to stay together with the person you love (or if you want to have a good relationships with members of your family), you need to understand that you can't expect them to change. The only person you can change is yourself.
- The best character trait for a relationship is a healthy amount of stoicism. There's many things that might feel unjust sometimes but most of the time, it's not worth fighting for justice. Just let it go and don't take things too serious.

[BigPunny]

You're absolutely right about the "I" and "You" messages. This is something that took my wife and I many years to understand and compromise on. The only hard part is calming one's self enough to realize what you're doing, because during the moment of "impact" everything feels like "you." It really takes a conscious effort.

Also, I want to clarify something you mentioned - I never said it is unhealthy to NOT fight, I said there "might well be something wrong." As goes with the premise of the article - there's no one 'right' way to deal with a relationship, but there definitely are good habits to form that make getting through it a little easier. :)

To me, fighting comes with the territory, but far too many people think fighting occasionally means they aren't a healthy couple or they aren't as 'happy' as other couples, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I'd add that if a couple isn't fighting - one person is giving, the other is taking, and there's little coming together.

[BigPunny]

Thank you, by the way, for your appreciation of the myTake. :)

[BlueCoyote]

Oh okay, in that case we actually might not disagree on anything :-).
And no problem, it was an interesting read :-)

[BigPunny]

Lol. That's funny.

And I have to say, you bring up some very important points with the arguments. This myTake was a simplified macro look at relationships, but when I have more time I'll do more in-depth approaches to specific topics within relationships, and I'll likely steal your terminology - I and You messages. Very nice. :)

Also worthy of note is that the level of discipline required to think first, then speak, is something many might never acquire, and those that do might not catch on until they're old and have no more dishes! :P

[BlueCoyote]

Haha, yes, your last paragraph might very well be very true. However, I would like to stress that people aren't too stupid acquire this emotional discipline to think first and then speak... the problem is mainly that most people are never told all these important things. In school we learn about math and languages and art and music... but we never learn about communication (not in a linguistic but in psychological sense). Most people think communication is just "talking with each other" but the truth is that there are people who are very skilled at doing good communication and others who are extremely bad at it and while some of it might be due to genetics, most of it is pure and simple practice. My mom told me that she's had couples in her therapy who had been together for 15 years, yet they didn't know each others favorite color or favorite food. That's because they never REALLY talked with each other. They never paid attention to doing good communication (their relationship was like

[BlueCoyote]

an endless small-talk and so they never went beyond scratching the surface of each other's personality. Now, this might sound like a particularly strange couple but the truth is that the major reason so many couples get into huge fights about topics such as how to bring up the kids or how to spend/safe money etc. is that they never REALLY talk to each other. They never discuss their innermost ideological standpoints on certain issues. Maybe because it's exhausting, maybe because it's uncomfortable, maybe simply because they don't like talking about such serious things. The consequences are that such couples step into traps they could have avoided had they talked to each other properly. This type of "good communication" (to which I also count I-messages) has to be practiced just like a foreign language. It doesn't just come to you. But it's still worth the work because it makes a relationship so much more interesting and healthy. You might still fight but at least you understand why ;-)

[BigPunny]

See, that notion is just so foreign to me, but it makes sense. But it's foreign to me because I've always felt extremely comfortable with revealing myself to my wife and she understands where I come from on most issues, and she also understands why I might do some of the things I do.

It's unfortunate that this is the case sometimes, because when you're able to share your innermost thoughts with someone, it's so liberating to know you can trust another person with that kind of information.

It sounds like you need to just copy/paste all your responses to this, format it a bit, and post a myTake. :P

[MaskedSanity]

Oh great, another "enlightened" yob that thinks bickering every week over bullshit and yelling at each other is somehow "healthy".

The reason you think this is because you've only ever been with ONE person and dealt with her bullshit your whole life and that is your narrow perception of how relationships should be. Considering you've met at the genius age of 17, I'm not at all surprised by this take.

In your head it SHOULD be messy, because that's the only life you know. A one-sided perspective of a man, who had to deal with infidelity and stuck around.

Sounds more like you've invested too much time and effort into your relationship to consider the fact that your relationship isn't all that great.

Then throw out words like Hollywood to make yourself seem above all else, that people around you have a fantasy perception of love, while your dysfunctional relationship is actually "the norm".

People like you make me laugh.

If you constantly need to scream and shout at each other, then preach to others that their peaceful respectful lives consisting of communication, understanding and respect are signs of something being wrong, it shows just how broken you are as a person.

Fighting over things is gonna happen, it's only natural. But your way of handling disagreements is that of a 17 year old boy, as I would expect from a man who allowed himself to be treated like shit from that age his whole life, then convince himself that's how it should be.

[BigPunny]

I've been with more than one person, both before and during my marriage.

"your narrow perception of how relationships should be." - I find this comment to be ironic given that the entire myTake is about how relationships are different for everyone and there is no one 'right' way to be in a healthy relationship. So, how you can assume that I'm preaching about how a relationship should be is beyond me - I'm literally saying the opposite of that.

"In your head it SHOULD be messy" - it CAN be messy, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. I think you've missed the point.

In fact, you sound very bitter about a very open-minded myTake. You're so bitter, in fact, that I believe you are a troll that created, or is using, a different ID just so that you can come on here to rile me up.

Oh well. Good luck in your future endeavors, and remember, just because you're fighting with your SO doesn't mean the relationship is bad.

[MaskedSanity]

Whoa, you cannot accept that someone doesn't buy your bullshit to such a point that you'd accuse your opponent of being a troll.

That's a lot of effort to put into getting my xper level this high just to troll you. Not everything is about you, love, but your attitude sure is an eye opener. : D

What exactly am I bitter about, though? I'm curious to know, do tell.

Spare your relationship advice, though. From my initial comment it should be fairly obvious I don't exactly find you to be credible.

[BigPunny]

"Whoa, you cannot accept that someone doesn't buy your bullshit to such a point that you'd accuse. . . "

Wrong. The level of bitterness flowing from those fingertips is why I assume you're just a troll. My point is that you read the myTake with your own perspective already in place, then made assumptions about what I was saying, and missed the ENTIRE point of the article. You completely missed it. Whoosh - right by your head.

You assumed I meant couples HAVE to fight in order to be in a 'healthy relationship', and that's so far removed from reality it causes me to believe you're nothing more than a troll.

Good day.

[MaskedSanity]

No, I did not assume that, you donut.

Your "so be it" approach is what gave it away. So be it, because different people have different relationships and handle things differently, therefore it's all good because wooooooo we're all so unique.

I've said in my initial comment that fights WILL happen. I disagree with your approach to them. If a couple fights every week over stupid shit, do you honestly think they'll listen to each other as you suggested? The couple is already irrational in their arguments, since they can't spend a fortnight without getting red in the face. The relationship IS bad, no matter what you'd like to believe.

But sure, I'm a troll because I didn't clap my hands to your wishy washy take like the rest of them.

You still failed to tell me what I'm bitter about, though. :3

[BigPunny]

It's funny, because in these 'opinion comments' of yours, you're agreeing with nearly every word of what I said, but at the same time you're screaming at the top of your fingertips that I'm wrong.

"So fight it out, if you must, but make sure you try and understand what the other is saying" - if you do not understand what the other person is saying, it is unhealthy.

Maybe you simply misinterpreted what I said or went into the myTake with your own faulty vision of what a relationship should look like. Either way, you missed the point and there's no reason for me to continue debating about such things.

Enjoy your 'non-fighting', 'fighting' relationship.

They hypocrisy of your words is laughable.

[BigPunny]

*the hypocrisy

[gray_sailor]

Got to come out on the side of @MaskedSanity here. I've been in two marriages. One where she was unfaithful and fighting was "normal" and one where disagreements are handled with respect.

I left my first wife because of her infidelities. I got custody of my son. Then I went about the business of seeking... get this... a woman that was actually compatible with me. We have been married for 9 years now and have blended our families. We communicate on everything. This is easy because we start out on the same page.

To me, based on my experiences, frequent fighting is evidence of poor selection in a mate.

[BigPunny]

@gray_sailor Again, you missed the point. I am not suggesting that couples must always fight, or that they should fight. I'm saying that just because you fight doesn't mean the relationship is unhealthy. If you're fighting and not communicating during or after those arguments, then it is unhealthy.

And the overall premise is that our fantasy of a relationship is far different from the reality. Too many people are willing to call it quits over one big fight. And let's face it, we've all had them - and kudos to anyone that hasn't. But I have known several 'non-fighting' couples divorce within a couple of years. I have also known far more couples that fight go on to stay with each other until they both die.

The point is that no relationship is going to look the same. What works for one may not work for another. To judge other relationships on what YOU believe it should look like isn't fair.

And I never said infidelity was a good thing. There are lines to be drawn for some.

[MaskedSanity]

"If the two of you fight once a week over stupid things, then so be it."

"So fight it out, if you must, but make sure you try and understand what the other is saying instead of only hearing scream, scream, scream, yell, yell, yell."

If a couple is fighting every week, your second point will not ever. Ever. The couple is way too immature and irrational to reach the point of listening. You cannot promote "fight every week if you must" and expect such people to have half a brain to work their shit through. If they could, THEY WOULDN'T BE FIGHTING EVERY WEEK.

The relationship is VERY MUCH UNHEALTHY when fighting happens this often, even if the people involved say sorry afterwards. It's dysfunctional to the point of causing stress and anxiety.

[MaskedSanity]

The overall tone of your take is "It's cool, guys, fighting is ok every now and then as long as you work your shit out", then proceed to paint a scenario of a dysfunctional relationship as an example where no way in hell will such a couple could ever actually bring themselves to fix their problems, because both have their heads up their arses.

There is no hypocrisy, just your inability to accept criticism.

[BigPunny]

Criticism? LOL.

"Oh great, another "enlightened" yob "

When your response starts off that way, it's far from 'criticism'.

Also, I NEVER defined what a healthy relationship looks like, other than it can look messy while still being healthy. Everyone must decide for themselves what is healthy - not you, not I, and not any other 'enlightened yob'.

You're trying to force your view of what's healthy and what is not. I am not. I don't go around telling people "hey, you two have a bad relationship because you share your bed with others." I don't go around telling people they should split up because they just had a fight.

Do you? It sure as heck sounds like it.

So, criticism? LOL. There's criticism and constructive criticism. I wouldn't say yours falls into either category, because you were just being hateful. You can disagree without immediately calling names. Or you can show what kind of an ass you are by doing just that. You made that choice. I'm just calling you out on it.

[MaskedSanity]

I did not define what's healthy either. I pointed out that your example was not. If you still fail to see that and think "well, that's for the couple to decide what's healthy", you're delusional.

A couple shouting at each other every week is not healthy, no matter how liberal you try to sound and think people should define relationship healthiness for themselves. Stress is physically unhealthy for the human body and others can very much observe a relationship being bad.

Not everything is subjective.

And yes, it is criticism. Harsh, blunt, impolite, but still criticism.

[BigPunny]

If you're defining what a healthy relationship ISN'T, then you are most certainly specifying the criteria of a healthy relationship, which means you are defining a healthy relationship. I did no such thing.

But hey - you're the enlightened yob, right? You know everything. lol. :)

[BigPunny]

"no matter how liberal you try to sound"

Ya' know, I suspected this entire time that you were a man, but this statement right here solidified it for me. You're one of those die-hard Republicans that likely goes to Church twice a week to be forgiven for all the shitty things you do to people throughout the week.

Then turn around and tell everyone how they should be living their lives.

I get it now. It actually makes perfect sense. And it's funny, because I called it in my very first response to you. Back under your bridge, troll.

[gray_sailor]

Boy are you WAY the fuck off. @MaskedSanity is a young female Russian (Lithuanian? memory fails) expat living with her boyfriend in London. (Last I checked, they don't have Republicans in England, and to the extent that they do, the term has a very different meaning.)

[BigPunny]

@gray_sailor That's one manly chick.

[gray_sailor]

I do disagree with one premise of your myTake, that being the idea that the fantasy sold to us is exclusively white picket fences free of conflict. Remember, conflict and drama drive story lines. Just as frequently, we are sold conflict with a sticker slapped on it changing it's name to passion.

Do some text searches of the GaG archives. You will find many takes and opinions that appear to extol the virtues of passion but are merely apologia for bad behavior.

[BigPunny]

@gray_sailor Ahh, I see. So explaining that couples fight, is merely being apologetic of bad behavior? And then people criticize that thought, yet out of the other side of their mouths, claim it's natural to fight?

I guess I'm pretty dumbfounded by the hypocrisy, irony, and idiocy of that argument.

Again. Sounds like trolling men to me.

[MaskedSanity]

@gray_sailor

Pretty much, yeah. But I don't live in London. :p

Eh, not the first time my gender came into question in a discussion. People tend to think I sound "too manly" to be female.

[gray_sailor]

You are getting things messed up here.

The common pattern, which you are to some extent following is this:

"I have a rocky history with relationships. I hate that mine doesn't measure up. But to that I say, who wants to be in a boring, passionless doldrum? Those great relationships are NOT what they appear to be." [makes meal consisting entirely of sour grapes]

This may not be your intent, but whenever someone one GaG defends arguing in a relationship, this is how it comes across.

[BigPunny]

@gray_sailor Right. It sounds fine when you and Masked say fighting is natural, but take issue when someone from GaG suggests this in a myTake?

It's literally a moment of wtf is wrong with these two?

[gray_sailor]

Fighting is natural.

Yes, that is true, but so is cancer. Like cancer, fighting is something to overcome. It's not something to seek out and celebrate.

[MaskedSanity]

Quantity is important.

Fights on a weekly basis point to a lack of communication, understanding and respect.

[Anonyno]

I would like to have your opinion on what I'm going to say.
First of all, I totally agree with you.
Second of all, I'm in this relationship, it's still pretty fresh but I still want to tell the story. We've been together for 8 months now. I know a lot of people who fight during 8 months but we have never really had a bad fight. Ofcourse, we had some disagreements and differences but in that case we would just talk about it. I can't remember one time he was really mad at me or the other way around. Irritated, ofcourse, but again, we would talk about it. For example, in the very beginning I was worrying about him a lot more than I do now, he made it clear I didn't have to and that he didn't like it so much. So I stopped worrying so much and now he's even making efforts from time to time to keep me from worrying (without me asking). We visit pubs on a regular basis and that's when we have pretty serious talks about our relationship. We've already said to each other that one day we'll probably end up in a big fight and that we'll just have to accept that this relationship won't be a dream all the time. We also agreed to do whatever it takes and in the end, if it really doesn't work we'll have to let go. That made me sad and worry again ofcourse, but I just had to agree because I need to be realistic (and I'm not a fool). So I just ordered another beer, smiled and kept talking to him as if I was not worried and after a little while I really wasn't worried anymore (you know, you guys sometimes say things us girls really overthink way too much).
I don't know, I think your opinion is spot on but as you said, every relationship is different. And the fact that we're not already fighting at 8 months doesn't mean that what we have is therefore bad. It will have to grow and time will tell, ofcourse.

[BigPunny]

Now, I didn't mean that if you don't fight, it's unhealthy. I do believe that if couples don't fight, it usually means someone is giving in every time and not taking a stance at some point, which is not healthy. But, you've also said that you do fight - a fight doesn't have to be throwing dishes - I was only using that as a way to say "hey, it happens sometimes."

I think if couples got into fights like that constantly, it could mean there's not enough general communication going on, and then things end up being said loudly instead of civilly, if that makes sense.

From what you just said, it doesn't sound like you have any problems and that you're talking about things that couples are likely to talk about. Because what he said is generally true - if it doesn't work out (and sometimes it just doesn't), that you'd just have to let go. That's a very true statement.

The only issue is figuring out when it's not working out, which is hard to determine, because relationships

[BigPunny]

can be so messy.

If this doesn't satisfy what you were looking for, perhaps you might elaborate more on what specific thing you would like me to talk about.

[Anonyno]

Well this opinion was pretty satisfying I must say. Thanks a lot, I will be following your takes on relationships!

[BigPunny]

Aww. Well thank you! I do appreciate your vote of confidence. :)

Mine has been chugging along for half my lifetime now, so I'd like to think I know a little bit about relationships. :)

[Gemini86]

I agree with you. You have a very good point. I like your take. It makes me look at how I define healthy relationships a bit differently. However, I have a question about a situation. With your knowledge, I believe you can help me. I have been involved with this guy, and he lacks communication. It has been about almost a year, and this is an issue. He won't open up. He seems nervous, and hesitant when it comes to opening up. Is it hard for guys ro open up when they care for somone? I would like to think he cares, we have been involved far to long. Is it possible to have sex, and hang out with somone for a course of almost a year with no feelings? We began as FWBs, but we now date. How do I get him to open up? What do I do? How can I turn this into a healthy relationship?

[BigPunny]

For a lot of men, it is difficult for them to open up, unfortunately. A lot of men don't like to share their 'feelings' with anyone and opt to either seclude themselves, fill their time with a hobby (hunting, work, fishing, etc. etc.).

This does NOT mean he doesn't care or loves you any less.

Let me try to explain the male psyche and ego, and you might have a better understanding of how to deal with it - this will likely span multiple comments, so prepare. lol :)

The male ego is a sensitive one. We want to be 'that guy'. We want to please our women. We want to 'take care of shit' - if that makes sense.

A lot of men are afraid to open up and become vulnerable out of fear of judgment, swipes at ego, or ridicule/humiliation. Some men feel that women are overly critical of them as well - nagging comes to mind. If the man feels this will happen, he won't open up. Once you show that he can simply talk to you without you interjecting TOO much, he's more likely to open up.

cont...

[BigPunny]

This may seem petty and childish, but again, the male ego and pride are things that make men who they are, and is often the major difference between men and women, in terms of showing emotion.

Too often, when vulnerabilities are exposed, people will capitalize on those vulnerabilities and will degrade the man or at some point hurt him knowing his weak spots. So he tries to show none.

If he offers something to you - communication-wise - listen to him, and return an intimate detail of your own. When he senses that you're also willing to open your whole self, he will start peeking out from the shell.

And if he does something that you disapprove of, don't immediately rush in with 'omgwtf did you do that for dummy!' Use tact and finesse (I know, we're more high maintenance than one might think! lol) when you respond. If he knows he can share something he did that was stupid, and you don't immediately judge him, he'll share more.

continued. . ..

[BigPunny]

Another thing - if he does something wrong, he'll know it in most cases. If you try to explain to him that he's looking at it wrong, he'll feel like you're taking someone else's side and that will hurt his ego/pride, and will cause him to further hide himself from you. You have to be his ear, not his mouth, essentially.

But obviously, there are times that you can't sit by and let him think he's right, and in that case, you will have to use tact in order to get HIM to realize on his own that he's wrong, rather than pointing it out directly. If that makes sense.

Another thing - try not to bring up old stuff. If he thinks you will use something against him later - in an argument, or a complaint to friends, etc. - he won't divulge that part of himself.

Finally, be yourself completely. Don't fake your way around him. Show him you. . the vulnerable you. He will respond greatly to that and will appreciate your ability to give yourself to him. We crave all of our women.

continued. . .

[BigPunny]

And finally - time. Just because he seems secluded or quiet doesn't mean he doesn't love you, or that he loves you less. Many are odd creatures because we put up a puffed-up version of ourselves for the world, but inside, we're as easily hurt as anyone else (those who are not are called sociopaths - no regret, remorse, etc).

After showing him that you can listen without harsh judgment, then give yourself to him - your vulnerabilities and everything. After awhile, he will sense the comfort, he will sense that you are his rock - his ears. He will begin to not feel as alone as he does (emotionally), and he will make his way out of his shell. Some are more slow than others.

Also, it's not a bad thing to remind him that you want to know him, but you shouldn't poke and prod him about it. Let him come out on his own after you show him that you are there for him. He will then be there for you, and your relationship will be better for it.

I hope this helps. Sorry for the wall-of-text. lol

[Gemini86]

yeah. He does tend to seclude himself. It really bugs me. His hobby or how he fills his time involves playing video games, lol. Yeah I totally understand. It is just that it makes me feel like sometimes doesn't care, but then again at the same time I'm like he wouldn't keeep me around if he did not care. I wonder if the absence of a father figure plays a role in this? He doesn't have a good relationship with his father, and so could it possible that the lack of a father figure conditioned him to seclude himself? Lol, okay I am definitely ready, lmao!!! I just would like him to you know understand that I wouldn't think any less of him. In fact I'd care for him even more. It would be nice to get to explore the depths of his mind. He just completely shuts off. He also has had a few run ins with bad relationships before me. Demanding/ controlling, and manipulating women, and so I think this may play a role too.

[Gemini86]

Okay. This is wonderful. I will totally use your advice. I thank you for your time, and thoughts. You were, and are truly helpful. Also, the wall of posts are totally fine . I really don't mind. I truly appreciate it.

[BigPunny]

The father issue may or may not play a part in his seclusion. It's possible, but I would say that he also could be depressed about something and you might never know it. But, prodding him about it will likely only make things worse.

Just go about your normal day and work towards getting him to realize that you're giving yourself to him completely and that it's okay for him to talk to you. Time will take care of the rest. And if it doesn't, and that's not something you can handle, then a decision will have to be made, but him being that way does NOT mean he's unhappy being with you. There are other indicators of that - spending time with other people more. Being happier around other people than around you. Him opening up to someone else (a woman, even).

But most guys will try to be 'men' for as long as they can, but they eventually break because they need that comfort that only a woman can provide. I've been running to my wife for years! lol.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you

[genuinlysensitive]

Excellent mytake. Its always good to point out how the main reason so many relationships fail, is the second it doesn't seem like a hollywood movie some people bail. You have one bad fight and she leaves, because "thats not how thungs are supposed to be." Sometimes the healthiest thing to do is simply forgive.

[BigPunny]

You, sir, nailed it right on the head with this one: "You have one bad fight and she leaves, because 'thats not how thungs are supposed to be' ".

And then put icing on the cake with "Sometimes the healthiest thing to do is simply forgive.

You, sir, understood what that myTake was all about. It's unfortunate that others didn't quite grasp that concept.

Thank you.

[HookingSwan]

I loved ur MyTake.

However, I was left wondering... How can u move on from cheating on someone?

I don't know if it is possible. Not at least without thta dramatically changing ur interaction and what u think/feel about that person.

How can u forgive cheating? And... I dont think trust is ever recovered from that...

Sorry to say. But I don't know if I would b able to tryst someone, however much I loved them, after being cheated on. That is the ultimate betrayal.

[BigPunny]

Funny you bring that up, because that was going to be my next myTake.

It's a matter of understanding, forgiving, and getting back to normalcy. Time really does heal a lot of our problems and in the case of infidelity, it will help tremendously, but you have to be willing to do that.

Now, don't get me wrong, the moment your spouse cheats, something about them changes in your mind. It's not a horrible thing, but some of their innocence is lost in your mind. When it happened to me, it was pretty devastating. It ruined me for some time, but I worked through it by communicating with her, trying to understand what I might have done at the time that pushed her into that, and ultimately forgiving her.

It is one of the hardest things to deal with in a relationship, but when you get past it, the relationship will actually catapult itself to another level. There's a realization from both that you love each other and are willing to put forth the time and effort it takes to deal with it.

[BigPunny]

And thank you for your kind words. I do appreciate it.

If you're currently dealing with this, just know that it gets better - it really does. There's light at the end of that horrific tunnel.

[HookingSwan]

Im not dealing with it, but if it ever happens to me... I really dont see me an my SO moving past that. But maybe i am too small minded about that.

I do feel glad that u nd ur wife found a way past that.

[BigPunny]

I wouldn't consider it small-minded. Some people are simply not able to cope with such betrayal, and there's really nothing wrong with that mentality, because as I said - there's no one image of a relationship that will fit with everyone. What works for one may not work for another.

It does happen, though. And I'll say men and women typically cheat for very different reasons. A man can have sex with a woman and it be completely meaningless to them. They'll feel no emotional connection to that woman and for many men it's all about the 'chase' and perhaps about regaining youth. . . not to mention the experience of an orgasm with another - but I would say most of the time men do not cheat because of an emotional disconnect.

Women, however, tend to cheat based on how happy or unhappy they are in a given relationship. Granted, there are women that can have sex for the very same reasons a man will, and vice versa, but the female often has other things that push her towards another.

[HookingSwan]

So you mean men are more prone to cheat?

What in ur mind might stop a man from cheating?

If the emotional connection has nothing to do with it... Then what might stop a man from cheating?

[BigPunny]

I would say that it's fair to say men are more prone to cheat. An unfortunate truth is that we're built that way - to reproduce. But, we have evolved further than that today, but not all of us.

The only thing that would stop a man from cheating is the man himself. I'm sure you're aware that opportunities are inevitable in life. We'll all come across them, and self-discipline plays a huge role in that.

I would say a lot of men cheat because they aren't being fulfilled sexually at home, while others will do it because it's "exciting." However, there are also many that will stray when they are unhappy, just like a woman.

Men do cheat for many of the same reasons women do, but more men will cheat for 'no reason' and just because the opportunity arises. Not all, but many.

But to answer your question - sexual satisfaction, emotional satisfaction, and maturity. The more mature a man is, the less likely he'll be to cheat. Not totally unlike a female.

[HookingSwan]

Thanks :)

[Poppykate]

I agree with you on this one! I am currently in a long term relationship (10 years) and we never fight like normal people. Our fighting is like a slightly heated discussion. At which point he often asks for a time out. It leads to unresolved issues and resentment. A good argument clears the air and gets issues out in the open. Than they can be worked on and solved.

[RachelBrigs]

I liked this a lot. I think its something everyone needs to hear

[BigPunny]

Thank you very much! I really appreciate that. :)

[skykidx1]

I can argee here with most of what you said me and my ex only had few aruments but 2 big fights... the 2rd big fight it what killed us. Because after that her parents got invloved int. Things for awhile she cried but... ok let me justskip had you really dont need toohear my life story. But during tve break up i had a lot rage inside me from never saying how ifeel.. I learn more about her n myself during the break up then the 7 years she's bee. My friend n 1 year she's bee. My girlfriend.

[skykidx1]

O and the best thing i learn is too stop caring what others thing about my relationship.

[skykidx1]

Think shit

[R3d_Anonymous]

Great myTake. Saw it from your reference in that girl's question about how couples meet.

Now if only the majority of people thought this way.

[BigPunny]

Thank you very much! :)

[SIGguy]

I'm still trying to exit this Matrix. I guess part of why I think this way is because I want to feel normal. But you're right, couples that never fight is abnormal and "perfect" relationships are unicorns.

[Anonymous]

Infidelity is where I draw the line. You may be okay with it, but can't say to people they're not trying and gave up their beautiful relationship if they don't feel the same way.

[BigPunny]

I never said infidelity was okay. And that's an understandable line to be drawn, although for me, it's not something I would let end the relationship unless the reasons for the infidelity were irreconcilable.

[Opinion Owner]

But if you start from that precedent, then infidelity is bound to happen over and over every time someone has a change of heart. And then, in case you're not the cheater, you're 'forced' to take your share of responsibility even though it may not even be your fault.

[Frost_Byt3]

If its a "fantasy" to not wanna be cheated on, then i don't even want a fucking relationship 😒

[Anonymous]

Lol on the internet Everyone is an expert

[BigPunny]

If you went to couple's therapy, would you rather a single person with a Master's degree talk to you or a person that is in a successful relationship that has lasted almost 2 decades and has lasted half the person's life?

I think I'd take experience over a College degree any day. But that's just me.

The same can be said of a Doctor. Would you rather a Doctor perform a procedure on you that has done it 100 times before or someone that had just come out of school? I'm sure you'd feel more comfortable with the former.

[Opinion Owner]

But you have only been with 1 girl
How can you know all the ups and downs and a good relationship if you have nothing bad to compare it to?

[BigPunny]

"But you have only been with 1 girl" - that is so far removed from reality and was never even conveyed in the myTake.

My wife and I have a relatively open relationship, and I have had several other long-term relationships prior to her.

"How can you know all the ups and downs. . . "

When you look for counterfeit money, you don't study counterfeit money - you memorize actual money and you'll spot the fakes. It's the same concept, although it's much more difficult to determine, from the outside, what a healthy relationship looks like, which is why you cannot say a healthy relationship is going to look like "this" or "that."

I think you've missed the point entirely. But hey, if you think you have the exact image of a healthy relationship, feel free to rebut this in your own myTake and feel free to link to it here. I'll gladly read it.

[Cjanes]

Very true I appreciate your take

[Azara]

Yeah good points. :)

[Nathand]

i hope this helps...