Well you also have to look at the psycho-social implications of "asking a girl out" vs. "hanging out" with on. In today's culture girls play a lot more complicated games with guys. You can't ask a girl on a "date" and call it that to her face, not unless you are really confident she will say yes otherwise it can come off as way too strong. Not to mention it adds more pressure during the date. Gone are the times where you court a girl formally. With the rise of feminism to it's current levels we men are forced to "give the girls options" by asking them to hang out, giving them the opportunity to say "I'm busy" instead of a simple no thank you allowing them to save face.
Not to mention for some reason the lingo has changed back when I was growing up a relationship was serious and dating was casual. Yet ask some couples today who have been together for a year and they will tell you they are "dating" and not "in a relationship. " Dating to me is casual and going on multiple dates. I used to ask girls out on dates, and either get rejected or if the girl didn't want to go on another one she would become the busiest person I know. Yet if you are just hanging out, it's more acceptable to be "busy" all the time. Basically it has made it easier for both genders to get out of it while being extremely non-confrontational or direct about the situation. This has become very prevailing in America lately.
Unfortunately, a lot of guys aren't taught from an early age, by parents and others, to be chivalrous and protective of women. The "women are the same as men" mentality doesn't help, either! Women are the same as men in abilities, but not the same biologically. As much as a lot of women would like to deny it, there are physiological differences between the sexes. The point I'm trying to make here, is that society, in the name of equality, has blurred these differences. Therefore guys are brought up to treat girls the same as guys. This is what has almost killed chivalry and that "women need protected" feeling in men. Why protect someone who is equally able to do it yourselves? This is translated into letting women open their own doors, walk where they want to on the sidewalk (those who know old-time chivalry will get that one), and the '"who needs to worry about a date?"attitude. I know I'm treading on thin ice here, and I apologize if my comments have offended any women out there! From what I've seen, you guys are much superior to us guys intellectually, anyway!
No. It's this generation. The problem is like someone mentioned earlier. Feminism killed the chivalrous mentality that men once had. Many guys today feel that since women are equal in climbing the corporate ladders and joining the military that the women are also more likely to pursue the guys and many of these women follow suit. A lot of them feel that if a woman is interested, she'll make the first move. Don't be fooled by my avatar. I may have served and I may be wearing the uniform in the picture however, this does not contradict the fact that I still have old school values in terms of romance. This is likely why I'm 31 years old and still single.
I think that there are still many guys who prefer the old fashioned courtship as well but they are hard for us to find. Blame feminism for that. Don't get me wrong, I think that the feminist movement was awesome because of the numerous opportunities that it has opened up for women however, I feel that in turn it did kind of kill chivalry. Some women think that it's condescending and chauvinistic for a man to hold a door open for a woman rather than it being a sign of a proper upbringing on his part or even him just trying to be nice. While I'm in no hurry to return to the days where women didn't have these opportunities, I actually think it's kind of nice when a man holds a door open for me. For me personally, that's a turn on.
Women are more independent nowadays and sometimes get offended if the guy does all the thinking for her. So I think that being aware of this makes guys more cautious when it comes to chivalry. And when you like someone, just hanging out isn't always a bad thing. It's a more comfortable environment with not as many awkward silences lol hope this helps
I agree with lovebird01.
And
Some guys are just looking to get laid and would rather not bother spending money on a girl he doesn't plan on really dating, so "hanging out" is the better option.
(not to offend the men. But there are a lot of people out there like that. Guys and girls,but especially guys).
"hanging out" entails so much less pressure than going on a date. Personally, it's less stressful when it doesn't seem like a huge deal. I'd hate to have to say no to a second date, but it's easy to avoid hanging out again. Stops from feelings getting hurt though, well. As much anyway.
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Simple risk reward. Better to start things with low commitment, easy yes/no decision all round.
If she says no, no great time or cost has gone into arrangements, so no feeling of why did I waste all that time/effort/cost for him, no feeling bad for her about him wasting a lot of the same.
If she says yes, no huge receipt by her so no pressure to put out. If she says yes, but doesn't want to hang again, or is interested in friend zone hanging then he doesn't feel he overdid it to start something nice, but perhaps not what he hoped for with her.
The expectation that a lavish date should be sexually reciprocated gets in the way of older friend relationships where there is a difference of economic power. For example I'd like to treat some of my less well off platonic girl friends to gig tickets, separate room weekends away etc simply because it is more fun to do some things in company than alone.
I am not trying to buy pu$$y but sometimes when I suggest trips etc the reception from people who know where we both stand can be awkward because of this undercurrent.
Ok I look at it in 2 ways and now this is me being honest. Women go on a date and want to be treated special and they want the man to pick up the tab. Men go out on a date because he is atttracted to the woman and wants to have sex with her. In turn, the woman isn’t necessarily attracted to every guy they go out with. So when you have those variables that’s why men don’t ask women out anymore. I stopped going out on dates in 2005 and I do not miss it. Now for companionship men hang out with their friends, get involved in recreational activities, some will hire escorts to have their sexual needs met. Then women will ask they would prefer to have sex with an escort than go on a date with a woman. The answer is yes. His needs are being met plus he doesn’t have to go through all that BS and wonder if the girl likes him or not. The truth is dating is not a good situation where it will develop into a long term relationship. This is what I and other men have figured out so why bother. As far as the woman wanting to feel special, let some other guy to do that but not me.
In my experience it is because women don't appreciate it anymore. I guess romantic dates are just what is expected of men, so going on a romantic date is seen as average. Most of the women I have dated seem to resent me for doing anything chivalrous, so I stopped being chivalrous.
Doesn't help that my success ratio for asking on dates and actually going on the date is 1:3; and they don't even say no, they just avoid you; which makes your next meeting awkward. So for the most part it isn't worth the effort, unless its somewhat of a sure thing.
There is also a lot of fear of being seen as creepy, "planning everything out and making it cute" is a large investment of resources and comes across as overdoing it.
Looking back I think half of my dates haven't been worth the resources I put into them. But what do you do if you plan out a date and the girl turns out to be incredibly uninteresting/uninterested? Say it was nice to meet you and go home or do you stick it out?
On a side note: I don't think you should go on a "date" if that isn't something you are going to do if the relationship goes somewhere. If you aren't the kind of person who likes going out for dinner/coffee very often, it can be harder to justify doing it just because a woman is involved.
I had a long post planned, but I decided to simplify it.
I used to be that chivalrous guy brought up that way by my entire conservative family all my life. I was mocked and made fun of that entire time. And needless to say, never had any decent relationships where I wasn't taken advantage of in some capacity. Then I was shown the Brietbart article on the Sexodus and then Dr. Helen Smiths book "Men on Strike", MGTOW, along with other speeches and articles mostly from women. It all made sense that for "nice guys", dating is toxic in todays society. Not only toxic, but downright detrimental and pointless.
This may not be the big, philosophical, all-encompassing answer one might be satisfied with. And I can't speak for all men, only myself. I can only assume that if articles, books, and speeches have been made from noted professionals, then it would be reasonable to deduce others have made that conclusion as well.
For myself being that "nice guy", "white knight", etc. serves no purpose. Its crawling on a path of metal shards. And with more and more women filing for divorce, alimony and child support against men reaching Draconian levels, and an overall sense of misandry in society today? I can't see the benefits of a relationship. Can anybody?
The nice guys are still being raised and they are still out there. But women just dont want them and society overall finds them to easy to target for ridicule. Most of them are just asking,
Why bother?
Because girls play games, has been my experience when I asked out a girl, it was always one excuse or another so basically I myself gave up not much desire to date or ask out girl at all really, I did it when I was younger and stupid . Ha ha ha
When you are presented with lies and games, and being jerked around that really tends to turn someone off big time at least for me that's the case, pretty much have had all bad experiences so huge turn off but then again I don't think I am like most guys in a lot of respects not just with dating or asking a girl out or rather not asking .
It seems to me that there's a danger of overdoing things. Unless we are talking about dating within an established relationship, a guy puts himself in danger of coming on too strongly.
When I was younger I tried the approach of putting together a full date, bringing flowers, being that type of guy. Totally bad results.
I think the difference comes down to this: would you want a guy whom you're mildly interested in to go all out? Most guys have been in that spot with some girl, tried the full-on Gatsby approach, and been rejected. And being rejected when you truly tried your best is way worse than when you didn't. The thing is when considering dating and what guys should do, women often think about what the hot, attractive guy should do, forgetting the others who did do that but lacked the right I don't know whatever you women look for and refer to as "confidence. "
What do you consider a "real" date? is it when the guy showers you with gifts?
Is there a monetary limit? Do you actually logically go through your mind and say "ok if he spends more than 300 bucks on me tonight, its officially a date."
OR
Is it simply what the guy calls it. Is it that he just verbally says "hanging out?" or "lets go out."
If that's the case then get over yourself.
Women do this same stuff whenever they get involved sexually. "i never do this I swear." and whenever they agree to go up to someones place and see his pet rock.
Its a less invasive, less formal, less pressured, way of saying "id like to spend time with you."
"I mean like REAL dates. Like where they plan everything out and make it all cute. It seems like when a guy is interested in a girl, they always just "hang out" with her."
Okay, um, question: why is it expected that the guy have to do all this? You've got two hands and two legs that aren't broken, right? Why is it the guy's responsibility to make a girl feel special? What happened to "equality" and "female empowerment"? It's [current year], don't cha know? Why don't you ask the guy out and plan out the date?
I'm both being sarcastic and serious. We live in a world now where women have more opportunities than ever, in everything from commercial products to careers, and yet this is one of the few domains where women still don't want to be treated equally. "I'll think I'll be equal at work, where I get paid the same as a man, but on dates, I'll let the man do all that stuff." If you want to be treated equally, then that "equality" needs to be absolute; no preferential treatment.
I asked the crush of my life to a concert, and then slowed it down to a movie. Does that count? It just is bad because most guys myself included feel OK look I want to take you to this concert. Some girls like various music yet when I get shot down in favor of some guy who drinks, smokes or is just a machistic idiot it makes me feel like why should I even bother?
Or I ask and she say's yes but doesn't call me up afterwards to say hey whatever happened to that concert or movie you wanted to take me to? It's like look if you don't like me just say no. Don't play with my emotions.
Well the reason I usually will just arrange a simple coffee date or something like that is that if she doesn't show up or plans on cancelling like pretty much all the girls I try to date do, at least I won't have wasted a bunch of time money and effort. The other thing is I'm finding is that if I do try and setup an extravagant date, most won't feel comfortable doing that with a guy she hasn't met before. Like for example, I'd love to setup a nice old fashioned picnic in the park somewhere and watch the sunset, but she's not going to want to do that cause she's in a park with a random guy and it's dark outside. Or I'd love to take a girl out on my jetski, but she's not comfortable doing that with a stranger either, which is why I keep it simple. Believe me, I really don't want to go and get coffee or go bowling either, that's boring.
Well, I have gone on three dates with women one was 49, 47, the other 53. It's like I am jumping through hoops to date, call, text, dating site games, etc etc. I understand it is a game but it seems the game is so hard, it almost not worth it anymore. Don't get me wrong I love most women and would love to have a girlfriend but man what a headache, may it be feminism, a lot of bad men, or goal oriented or just they don't know what they want or being very finicky. Not sure. I am not worrying about it anymore; life is to short. When it happens it happens.
Why can I like this question only once... it's my MOST favourite question on here :D
Okay, here's the answer: STOP FUCKING BE PICKY! We DON'T look like Brad Pitt, we DON'T have millions of dollars on our bank account, and we DON'T wait all our oh so pitiful lifes for the holy grace of you girls coming along.
I gave up on asking girls out, because I'm sick of getting told lame (and I mean LAME) excuses just because you "don't wanna hurt" the guy. Would you like that actually? I don't think so.
But guess what? I'm happy. And I'm no female. Why I say this? Because in your 30s, I bet my ass on it, you will wish you had a guy, but then we're already gone. Gone and happy.
Guaranteed I have asked a lot of women out. Either the timing was wrong or I wasn't the right guy? I'm at a loss anymore. I dated before I got married: for 24 years we were together and grew apart. Dated a few after the dissolution. The last 3 plus years? DEAD END. I'm 55 and yes the "pool" is a quite a bit smaller, either they're married, boyfriend, or whatever else. I have tried online dating: boy what a JOKE! I like women around my own age: say, 48-58. Online dating is a numbers game and it doesn't favor most men. I've had IT!!
It's not the age group, it's just a sign of the times. People these days are used to having everything right away. So, some guys will look at planning a date as being too much trouble because of the time involved.
Its not your age group . Say you're a girl who likes to party, if I took you out on a very special date I would feel like I'm working too hard(even tho every gentleman should) to get you to like me as much or more than just some guy you met in a club . If you are a nice, good girl, everyone would feel honored to take you out on one of those dates, and if your guy doesn't take you out on a really nice date he just probably doesn't have the money, time, mood, etc .
This guy just asked me to a brewery. That doesn’t sound like lunch or dinner to me
because they just aren't bothered enough of the time.
its too hard for them to compete with the cute dates in tv and movies, so they give up and drag us along to the latest action thriller at the cinema
it's just your age group and the guy is cheap.
Some guys must do?
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