Who is wrong? The snooper or the cheater?

[Wonderer89]

You see this fairly often here, the girl has gone through her partners phone because she was suspicious.
Everyone generally jumps on her for invading his privacy, which of course is true but what if she finds out he was actually cheating? Is her behaviour then justified as he most likely wouldn't have been caught otherwise?
Who is wrong in this scenario, if you had to pick one?

*swap the gender scenario if relevant

The snooper

The one hiding information

[Anonymous]

Behaviors are not justified by outcomes. Imagine how fucked up legal proceedings would be. "Well, Mr. Jones, the Court sees that you did in fact attempt to murder your neighbor, but since you failed to kill her, you did nothing wrong."

People typically look towards one's intent when judging their behaviors. Back to my example, Mr. Jones would've gotten jail time because he INTENDED to kill his neighbor.

If somebody snoops through someone else's phone, it's because of a deep-rooted jealousy. Whether or not it is found his/her partner is cheating is irrelevant.

Now, I'm NOT justifying cheating. Cheating is a bad thing, obviously. I've never done it, nor do I plan to ever do it. But that doesn't negate the wrongness of invading others' privacy.

[Wonderer89]

👏👏👏

[BronzedAdonis]

both are at fault but Id say if the snooper has legitimate grounds to snoop then by all means.

[Wonderer89]

"Legitimate" could have a wide interpretation

[BronzedAdonis]

true, I was too lazy to further elaborate but now you've brought it up.

I personally define legitimate as

*the potential cheater is confirmed to have cheated before (either on current partner or others)
* compelling circumstantial evidence
*you notice inconsistencies in what they've said/told you
*their behaviour/personality has changed for no discernable reason
*their sexual availability and/or interests/performance has noticeably changed

[BronzedAdonis]

not all those factors are needed to issue a 'search warrant"

http://i.imgur.com/XGh6gKd.gif

[BronzedAdonis]

cheers for mhg

[Anonymous]

Personally from experience... I would say the one hiding the information, if in a serious relationship. (years) and or marriage.. You should NOT be hiding things like that from your partner. I agree it is a trust thing yes, but it goes both ways. My S/O doesn't snoop on me because he does trust me and I've told him numerous times that i am not his ex and I wouldn't want to be. But my S/O has lied to me quite a few times about certain things so I super suspicious... I do keep an eye on the data usage used on the phones, and I told him and he's like you shouldn't be checking until the end of the month, well I know texting doesn't use much to very little.. and he's using around 10-11 mb while at work (no games) he's doing something...

[Wonderer89]

That's so much work though to make sure he's doing the right thing

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah personally not really, just a quick sign in of the app and one click your there, easy peasy, if it was like our old phone company it'd be more work

[mjz00]

hi there, this is so perfect i had a conversation with my 11 year old daughter the other day about this cheating and checking on someones phone. i said to me even though its so common how does someone be so stupid to leave any evidence on their phone to be caught out, she totally topped me by this, HER RESPONSE, Well if you were an intelligent person and your relationship wasn't working and you werent happy you would end it and not be there anyway... ta da... not even accepting of getting to the point of checking up on someone because you had some sort of doubts, i have to say i was so proud of her... xx

[Wonderer89]

Lol they surprise us sometimes. Good on her for learning it early!

[Ellie_copter]

These tough questions on a Sunday morning 😂😂

Hmm... If the person snooping doesn't find any wrong doing, then that person is in the wrong. However if you find out your partner is cheating, then the cheater is wrong and the snooper is justified for snooping.

[Wonderer89]

But if they're justified because their suspicions are correct how would that work in the next relationship when they're wrong? Then they have just breached their partners trust for the exact same behaviour that was previously excused

[Goodwifie]

I'm glad that I checked my husbands phone, it saved him from making a huge mistake and saved our marriage.
His behavior had changed dramatically which made me very suspicious.

[BCRanger10]

They're both wrong, but I still think the cheater is more wrong. I say this simply because we don't know what's going on in the snooper's mind before they got suspicious. Were they always suspicious or did they deny, rationalize, and give the benefit of the doubt for a while before they started checking texts, emails, social media, or hired a PI? Did something push them over the edge? Have they been cheated on before? Are they naturally suspicious? There are all sorts of things to consider. That's why I say the cheater carries more fault.

[Kuraj]

Snooping is usually forgiven only because the cheating is considered a worse thing to do, if no cheating was found then obviously snooping would be frowned upon because it is the only "frowned upon" thing that happened.

A person who is going to snoop in my opinion should be ready to become single regardless of the outcome.
You should not snoop and still expect your partner to stay with you, but if you snoop just to maybe find out a possible reason why your relationship went to shit then I guess, what can you do.

That being said, its a difficult topic for me to emphasize with.
I firmly believe that if you have nothing to hide, you wouldn't be hiding anything.
I'm a person without a lock on my phone who would give my account information to anyone whom I trust.

[Losalt]

Even *if* he has another girl, is that *really* that bad?
The mindset of the snooper lacking the confidence in her own place in the relationship and being so afraid of losing him that she has to search that phone is more harmfull in the long run for the relationship even if him having another girl and being discovered hurts her, breaks the relationship terms and are likely to end the relationship there and then.

That said, if I was in his shoes I'd ask her if she'd be ok with it *before* getting another girl.
And I'd try to ensure that everyone involved are comfortable and consenting every step of the way.

[Wonderer89]

Depends on the couple. For me (and a majority of others) monogamy is not negotiable. A partner asking me for permission would likely end up in our relationship terminating due to incompatibility. It's *really* that bad

[Losalt]

A lot of the reason why it is a issue is cultural, that people simply haven't even thought of the possibility and how it would actually work.
But fair enough.
Personally I think fewer people would get hurt if more people where a bit more open though.

[Wonderer89]

I don't agree, I think a lot of the reason it's an issue is because people aren't open about their preferences with their partner and pair up with someone who matches that.
If both people are on the same page, it's not an issue. Picking partners wisely is the foundation of making a relationship work

[Losalt]

First of all, people don't always know that they're poly before entering a relationship.
Sometimes they fall in love with a second person for the first time in their life *after* the first relationship starts...
Secondly, people are afraid of telling the truth because people react so badly to this kind of things.
Thirdly, for a lot of the people who tries poly but think they're not cut out for poly it turns out that when they do try it out it works just fine for them.
That said, yes I do agree about comparability being extremely important.
And yes, there is a scale for how poly people are.
There are people who are in relationships with poly people while they are themselves mono and who have accepted their partner being poly and being allowed to be poly.
But who have to suffer through the pain of being a mono in a poly relationship.
I don't know about many of them, but they seem to be in the category that they'd rather see their partner happy then deny them this even if it might cause

[Losalt]

Them pain.
But of the people who *think* they're going to end up in that situation it seems most actually end up being more or less poly as far as I can tell.

[Wonderer89]

To address your points;
1. As soon as they figure themselves out they can tell their partner, so the partner can make an informed decision on the future of them staying in that relationship. People don't just fall in love with someone else while in a relationship. Love/lust takes time and investment to get to know someone enough for feelings to develop which is disrespectful to their spouse.
2. They may well be upset, and if they want to end the relationship that's their prerogative. But one should stay true to their wants and needs and find someone to fit that, not do it behind their spouses back and leave them in the dark about it.
3. If someone feels poly is the lifestyle for them, but their partner doesn't wish to try the relationship should be terminated and each go their way to find what they desire. Not one go behind another's back which is the whole point of my question.

[Losalt]

1. You can genuinely fall in love with someone in just a single day, and I'm not just talking lust.
2. I agree that it's wrong to keep your partner in the dark about it.
But I also think its even worse with the attitude needed for the snooping to take place.

[Wonderer89]

Have to agree to disagree on point one but thanks for taking the time to discuss 😊

[Losalt]

As for "3. If someone feels poly is the lifestyle for them, but their partner doesn't wish to try the relationship should be terminated and each go their way to find what they desire. Not one go behind another's back which is the whole point of my question."

I agree that they shouldn't go behind their back.
But I don't think it necessarily has to end.

And yeah, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

It might play a role that I live in Norway and given the time zone I'm guessing that you live in the US?

We tend to value privacy higher in Europe it seems (although there are exceptions, like the UK...)

Of course it's not the whole reason, but well...

[Wonderer89]

If their spouse doesn't want a poly relationship and the other doesn't want to hide that side of themselves then those aren't pretty much the only two options available that don't end in constant animosity.
If one person doesn't want it but the other continues anyway it's not a happy relationship. If the other tamps down that side of themselves they're stifling who they are and need for happiness.
Ergo; cheating or ending the relationship are the most likely solutions and one is completely one.

And no, I'm not American

[Losalt]

Really?
Ah, sorry for making assumptions.
Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
I don't think we're going to agree anytime soon.
But I really need to get a couple of hours of sleep while I still can.

[Red_Arrow]

What reasons for the suspicion? If just a bit suspicious, then the snooper is wrong. If there have been enough incidents that make it appear the partner is cheating and is evasive, then snooping is actually self preservation and justified. The cheater is by far the more in the wrong.

[Alexgagnon]

the trust issues are justified if you are right about your partner cheating. but going into their phone is a last resort for finding information

[Wonderer89]

I guess I just struggle with it being justified if they end up being right. It then sets it up for a next relationship that anytime they suspect their partner might be unfaithful and snoop but there is nothing to be found. Then it's not justified but they were excused the time before because it ended up being true yet it could be a deal breaker in a new relationship

[Alexgagnon]

well always trust your get. and remember your biggest enemy is yourself

[Wonderer89]

Oh it's not anything personally to do with me 😊 Just musings. I'm far too direct to snoop, would rather just ask outright

[Alexgagnon]

I only ask questions like this when I already know the answers

[Wonderer89]

Pretty much 😉 Interesting to see some of the answers though

[kaylaS91]

They're both equally wrong.
The cheater is wrong for obvious reasons like completely defeating the point of remaining in the relationship by lacking self control and the will to so much as remain faithful.

The snooper is wrong for being a nosy fuck and not ceasing to invade their partner's privacy until they find enough evidence to validate heir paranoia.

[Red_Arrow]

Paranoia is suspicion and mistrust of people without evidence or justification. So the snooper is not paranoid when the partner actually is cheating and not remaining faithful.

[kaylaS91]

@Red_Arrow Everyone has varying degrees of doubting their partner once in a while. If someone is actively looking through shit that's not their own, they've got an agenda and will not stop until they find what they're convinced is out there.

That's when you know the sliver of doubt has turned to paranoia; a mental condition characterized by delusions, unwarranted jealousy, or general mistrust of people or their actions without sufficient amounts of evidence or justification. (Your last sentence makes me think that you're a snooper yourself seeing as how you're already viewing these suspicions as being reality when.. they're nothing more than suspicions. Also known as 'delusional thinking'.)

[Red_Arrow]

I referred to a case where a partner was cheating. Over time it became obvious. So the main person started snooping. There had been evidence and justification, so not paranoia. Your response states that if a person is looking through stuff not their own then they have an agenda and will not stop until they find what they believe is out there, and that is paranoia, a mental condition characterized by delusions, unwarranted jealousy or general mistrust of people. What a crock!

The cheater acted in a manner over time that showed he/she was cheating, leading the snooper to snoop. That is not an agenda and it will stop when evidence either way is found. And as I pointed out that is not paranoia. And the snooper acted on good evidence and may then find the proof. Those are not mental conditions. They are not delusions. Obviously the jealousy IS warranted, and mistrust of a cheating partner has absolutely nothing to do with general mistrust of people. How can you get every point so wrong?

[Red_Arrow]

And me a snooper? Another crock. My wife and I shared our info about everything. There was no snooping and no need for snooping. You certainly have either a very low opinion of others, or a very high (unwarranted) opinion of yourself.

[kaylaS91]

@Red_Arrow sure, fair point.
What would've stopped the partner who had sufficient levels of 'evidence' to so firmly believe that their partner was cheating on them from, oh I don't know... TALKING to their partner? Laying it all out on the table and saying they'd been caught and taken it from there?
Rather than resorting to childish tactics like snooping and backing their partner into a corner with their cheating?

[fauchelevent]

Both fucked up. I still don't think snooping is really justified even if you were right, it's still an invasion of privacy ether way, y'know? It's just that the cheater fucked up like 100 times worse than the snooper.

[Wonderer89]

Exactly

[vonasaurus]

both.

1) cheater is a slimeball;
2) snooper has violated his or her partner's trust and personal space.

even though i've been cheated on, i'm so against any kind of surveillance in relationships. it undermines trust and, if you can't trust your partner without access to his or her stuff, you need to

1) reevaluate the relationship, or
2) go to therapy until you learn healthy boundaries.

why do people always snoop to find things they know they won't like?

[worldscolide]

I vote C both are very much in the wrong. The cheater for being a dirt bag, and the snooper for breaching privacy. I have an ex that actually committed a felony to snoop on me, She breached my companies security, Nearly costing me my job, suffice it to say i testified against her when the time came. This was all because she was convinced that i was cheating. Everything she snooped on everything she looked in to she could find no evidence, Because i am not a cheater. I could not do that to someone.

Keep the above in mind when you choose to snoop, The consequences could be you never find what you are looking for and land you with a prison sentence.

[blondfrog]

Both are bad but the cheater is worse. The snooper has trust issues so the relationship would have fell apart eventually anyways and the cheater already screwed up and ended the relationship after cheating.

[Blake0048]

The snooper isn't worse thab the cheater. Thats something cheaters say to deflect the blame and avoid taking responsibilities which is immature but thats a given if they're a cheater.

[RedThread]

I think they're both at fault but the person who is actually cheating is most at fault. One is an invasion of privacy and the other is a massive invasion of trust. I consider trust to be more important to build and incredibly hard to repair once shattered.

[Anonymous]

They're both wrong. The cheater is obviously MORE wrong, but the snooper is just as wrong.

Whether girls like to acknowledge it or not, there are WAY more mistrusting accusers out there, than there are cheaters.

[Wonderer89]

Very true 😊

[Malikai96]

If my boyfriend wants to "snoop" on me, I wouldn't be even remotely bothered because there is nothing to find out about me that is going to compromise our relationship in any way. Why be there making it all about me and my privacy if he's feeling uncertain and needs reassurance? I wouldn't, it's more important to me that he can feel at ease. If I were cheating? I wouldn't feel like I had the right to be mad it him for snooping anyway.

[BrittBratt2416]

It's b, cause if guys were honest in the first place and just told us they wanted to see other women, we wouldn't have to snoop just to get evidence and an honest answer. Cheaters will always flip out, they aren't sorry about cheating, they're sorry about getting caught.

[Dr_Latex_McPeggin]

Both are bad, but if you are guessing on the act, then you have to go with snooping as it is not always 100% proven correct. The act of cheating is deplorable but snoopers don't always find a cheater...

[Wonderer89]

Exactly! So if it's excused when their suspicion is correct why isn't it always?

I don't have any feelings either way on this, I just get torn every time I see a question about it lol

[kenworth]

although the one cheating/hiding information isn't right. their is never a time when snooping is allowed or right. what if the person had been trying to set up a supprize for their partner? snooping is never acceptable

[Izumiblu]

Ofc at some point stuff goes wrong enough I think its ok to snoop to find out what's going on, but having a feeling or he doesn't show up on time doesn't meet that burden. Could be both are wrong. The ends don't justify the means.

[abw121290]

the ends don't justify the means. Just because she may have uncovered he was cheating by snooping on his phone doesn't make her acts noble or right. If she really has that level of distrust, it's probably not the right relationship for her