Can cohabitation be a SCAM for women that want commitment?

[Shelly2002]

After reading through several questions here of marriage being a trap, now I would like to speak from the other side of women stuck in the ''we've been living together for 7 years, why isn't he proposing'' perpetual cohabitation dilemna and others advicing her to accept what she has, ignoring her wants and needs; so basically to just follow a man's agenda. It's always the same thing where she moves in with him too soon, treats him as if he were her husband, cooks and cleans for him, invest so much time, gives her youthful years and is then expecting her long-term boyfriend to propose and marry her. When that doesn't happen and he doesn't want kids either, she's left with empty proposes, worthless wasted years and her fertility years are drained. Or if she has kids with him but then wants marriage, she has a higher chance of being another single mother that couldn't get commitment from a man if a break-up happens. Then her chances in the dating pool are limited; her market value dropped. It'll then be harder for her to find another suitable man that wants marriage and accepts her with another man's child.

Personally I see it as a scam, just like men keep saying marriage is one-side... I feel exactly the same way with this cohabitation modern dating style. I'm not getting anything out of being someone's girlfriend for endless years meanwhile he's getting all the free sex, romance and maid services. It would be great if nothing was ever one-sided, if both equally benefit from each other. Moving in together isn't a step nor walking stone towards marriage, never was. The actually marriage proposal (along with a wedding date) is the step towards marriage.

By accepting cohabitation, the woman is basically accepting a long-term boyfriend that can easily dump her, not a future husband. She's not being traditional, which would be not moving in with someone that's not your fiance at least if she wants marriage. My best friend and I think it's a scam for women.

Updates

1 y

In additional, it's been already proven that living together as boyfriend and girlfriend for many years doesn't guarantee a future, happy and stable marriage. In fact, several people actually divorced shortly afterwards, since they took too much time in the dating stage.

[Christian_Cartier]

It's not that it's a scam (per se), it's just a terrible idea. A friend of mine was just telling me about having the same issue. She'd lived with a guy for years now and was frustrated because it's going nowhere and she seems confused and doesn't seem to understand why. I think she was expecting it to lead to marriage.

I had to explain to her that from the guy's perspective there is nothing to be gained from marriage, she's already giving him everything he needs. Men don't need marriage if they are already getting everything they want for free.

[Shelly2002]

This exactly. He's already getting it all for free. I hope your friend breaks up before it's too late for her to have kids.

[Christian_Cartier]

She's young enough to still bounce back from it. Whether or not she will listen is another story.

[Jamie05rhs]

So I know you were literally born yesterday (after the Millennium), so I'll give you a pass.

But cohabitation has been a scam for AT LEAST 75 years now. (Maybe even more.) re-state//background_color_rgba (0, 0, 0, 0), font_color_rgb (77, 77, 77), justifyLeft

[Shelly2002]

It's been going on for the longest but it's spreading lately and several women that want marriage still fall for it. I don't understand how any woman can really believe that's a step towards marriage, lol. Personally I see as a rookie scam.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Shelly2002 Yeah- it's definitely a rookie scam. Lol.
Good for you for being smart! 🤓

[Jamie05rhs]

Thanks for the MHO! Very kind of you.

[AI Opinion]

Hey love, I see where you're coming from! Cohabitation can indeed feel like a waiting game if someone's hoping for that ring. Some see it as a commitment-lite situation where the perks of marriage are enjoyed without the title. But remember, relationships are like the spice of life–each one's got its own flavor. Communication about desires and plans is key! If marriage is what you're aiming for, setting boundaries and expectations is crucial. Just don't let your heart drown in expectations! 😊 Stay true to what you want, and don't settle for less. 💪💕

[D_Bone_Steak]

I just started reading and I'm going to say this right from the start before I start to read the rest. MGTOW's top tenants are 1) No cohabitation and 2) No marriage... and they're both for the same reasons. Cohabitation in some states or in places can get you kicked out of your own place that you pay for. Remember the whole point of MGTOW isn't about hating women. It's about protecting yourself from the power as woman has in situations thanks to the powers that me. Now I will continue to read the rest...

Halfway through and I have to speak again. These women are not vetting these men for what they want. If it's just sleeping around or moving in with a random without having solid answers... what are they even doing? She's wasting her fucking time on this when there are tons of guys she's ignored for him as she ages her eggs out of commission. Moving on...

Ah yes... You see it how I do, just from the female perspective. You have the issue pegged... he's getting the sex without the other shit. Basically and simply put.

We do see the same games from both sides (I believe) and you're just sort of siding with your own gender on this, but come on now, your gender made this the best situation for my gender and you know it. It's an out without all those legal ramifications and with no children... even less money to pay for while the dude gets his kids ripped from him and then taught how much of a piece of shit he is while they're under her control.

I don't think you're stupid and you sound very intelligent to me, so I will be blunt... the government has empowered women to a point that even the women take advantage of it, and that has resulted in the men finally defending themselves against that... we all have an uncle, a Dad, or some man that we know that's got fucked the ef over, and got fucked hard. We all know how the game works. We all know she can get a job quicker than his ass, but the system still acts like it's the 1950's where only he can. We know this.

So yes, in a way you are right, the cohabitation is usually a scam for that live-in pussy lifestyle without the alimony if it doesn't work out.

Marriage should be reduced to a symbolic thing rather than a legal thing in my personal opinion. Child support and children has a court system in place for that and I consider that separate were a man should pay... but they should do DNA testing at birth to reduce paternity fraud.

I would love to talk more on this subject if you're interested... just hit me up if you want to.

[Shelly2002]

I'm about the meaning and symbolic a marriage is, our families together celebrating for our lifetime happiness. I don't mind the price of the engagement ring. It can be simple and the wedding can be cheaper but the marriage would still be happening. As for DNA results, if it helps I have never done it before. I'm a virgin and that's one thing I hold dearly too. It's symbolic to me.

[Shelly2002]

I don't mind signing a prenup. Actually a child raised in a marriage with both parents involved in his/her is really the more suitable option. A child raised by a single mother because the relationship didn't last will be a child raised in a broken home.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I think you're actually on my side of the fence on this issue because you're a woman I would value. A virgin even. You're not like them who are bragging about sleeping with about 100 guys in a year (and probably contracting every STD we can think of) or demanding the fancy ring and expensive this and expensive that. You may have swallowed some of the propaganda from those women though.

To put it another way... I think you still value love in a relationship rather than the cash and prizes you can strip away from a man.

This is interesting for me because most women I talk to... are basically whores and they crave nothing more than to take a man's wealth and make him a slave to the government as she destroys him as a person.

To stay on topic though, you've recognized patterns that are basically traps now for your gender... go deeper than that is all I ask and see why these guys are acting like that. Most women are not like you at all. They've been sucking and fucking since before they were 13 for the most part. You as an individual might see it as fucked up, but think about all those other women that actually deserve to be treated just like they are. They're far from virgins. They're cheaters, liars, manipulators, schemers, deceivers, whores, sluts, and then they call some virgin guy that hasn't done a thing a piece of shit because he was born with a dick between his legs. It's a sad situation out there that women are all fucking (because they're fucking the same guys) and so many dudes are virgins for life.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I ended that badly because I was being given shit from my wife of over 20 years about jerky I made... she wants to hog it all down even though she ate today and I have not. That's married life and I know it well. I couldn't concentrate on what I was writing because I'm dealing with all that bullshit. She's hungry for attention and I just want to space off into g@g, and she can't allow it even though sh has no interest in anything other than drama. This is married life for us men... and it's not the greatest thing ever. Just some food for thought... now I'm going to worry about how to feed myself since her fat ass fed herself plenty and I'm just trying to warn people about this setup. It's not a fucking Disney movie.

[D_Bone_Steak]

As for a prenup... the courts overturn that pretty fast and anything in it becomes her property. If you think a prenup is a way to safeguard anything then you just don't know yet. That's the thing... men are figuring that shit out. EVERYTHING is stacked against them. The only men that win put everything in their Mom's name. Can't take money from a woman to give another woman. I don't have a Mom I could trust like that though.

[CuriousMoonFox]

For those who have marriage with kids as their ultimate objective (and for those only) cohabitation should be treated as a one year trial period to see whether two people can live together without killing each other and work as a team to raise children. If you allow yourself to wait seven years it means you weren't disciplined enough to take the necessary actions or you weren't explicit enough with your partner about your goals. Contrary to popular believe not all ultimatums are toxic. For some it may serve as a so called red flag (god, I hate this word) in the sense of "if I have to make an ultimatum he isn't the right one for me" etc. but it is definitely better than waiting seven years. And many guys need it because they are "whatever". Just so you know, you will fall out of love with the "whatever" guys but they are stable.

To conclude sometimes it's not an intentional scam. It's more like boys need to be pushed into action more than you'd like when you're already cohabitating.

[Orion84]

That's a big problem with the modern state of dating & marriage.

A lot of men are afraid to commit, because marriage sucks for men, and a lot of women don't want to be stuck in that sort of quasi-committed non-marriage. Someone gets screwed, regardless.

Unfortunately, I don't really see it getting any better until there's actually a reason for men to get married. As long as it's seen as a poor choice, why would they? Either they stay unofficial, which is safer for the guy, and less beneficial for the woman, or the guy willfully screws himself, just to make her happy.

[Shelly2002]

Basically everyone loses in the end. If there is a winner, it's at the cost of someone losing. If I were to hesitantly agree with his agenda, that's the guarantee I'm not going to waste my years and my virginity on nothing or that I'm not going to become one of those single mothers (even worse then we have kids of 2-3 different ex bfs; men that wouldn't commit) very few men would want to marry later on. Once that's gone, I can't ever have it back. I don't feel secure nor safe with that position. Yeah that wouldn't look good on me.
As for the marriage, I suppose agreeing to signing a prenup, being ok with a simple engagment ring (I never really asked for much anyway so the price doesn't matter to me), a cheaper wedding and also helping him with money if the wedding cost is a bit higher can help out. But on the other hand if I agree to cohabitation, besides just ''I love you, one day we'll get married'' words (besides words), there is no other way for me to trust him he's not going to ditch me suddenly and waste both my years and virginity.

[Ariesman81]

If your position on marriage is to secure your future, yet are willing to sign a prenup... aren't you living as a cohabitating couple anyway? Just having the title of wife?

I empathize with your situation. But what you're doing is the same thing men are doing. Leveraging your youth and virginity to get what you want... commitment and security and consequences for inappropriate behavior. What men are saying is that marriage doesn't lead to security for men. As suggested by the percentage of women who file for divorce. Ultimately, yes... marriage is a win for women and a loss for men. Which is why men opt for cohabitating without marriage. But men tend to be the more loyal gender anyway... so as long as the woman behaves... she'll be provided for and taken care of. That's all we're saying.

[Shelly2002]

I can make it easier for him by signing a prenup and helping him with the wedding costs if it's too much. I'm not really asking for an elegant ceremony nor expensive ring. It can be simple and cheaper. It's the symbol of joining two families, publically getting recognized as his wife and really being his lifetime he gladly chose. That's not the same feeling if I were just his girlfriend.

[Ariesman81]

Would a commitment ceremony be adequate or does it need to be filed with the state as well?

[Shelly2002]

Is it still official marriage (for instance I don't mind in church) and I'll be publically the wife with a new last name as it has always been? Or will I still be his girlfriend and it's a fake ''make-believe'' ceremony?

[Anonymous]

If you want to be strong and empowered, and not get married (perhaps because it's slavery for women, and a trap for men), then do so and don't look back. But there is no administrative support for couples playing at nearly married.

The covenant is marriage is supposed to indicate to all that you both intend to be together long enough to build a family and raise children if not until death do us part.

I recognise that social and government policy has undermined this in recent years which is greatly disappointing given our reducing birth rates and fragmenting families.

[Shelly2002]

It was suppose to be the best option to raised a well-balanced child; within marriage and both parents involved in his/her life. If I were to live with a man, get pregnant and the relationship doesn't last since nothing (just words) is bonding us, then the child will be raised in a broken home.

[Anonymous]

Cohabitation and commitment are not mutually exclusive. What you are talking about here is marriage, which has become too scary for most men today.

Half of marriages end in divorce, women file 80% of them, and men get screwed in divorce court and child custody.

You want marriage for selfish reasons, and men avoid marriage for selfish reasons. Why do you think men are "scammer" for doing the same things as women?

Women have created the current state of marriage. You've made your bed and now you're complaining about having to sleep in it.

[Shelly2002]

Living together with a boyfriend and giving my virginity on someone that's not even my fiance seems scary to me. I'm scared of wasting my years and virginity on nothing, then getting ditched, having to start all over and being in a rush by then. Or I'm scared of becoming a single mother if I get pregnant with a boyfriend that then breaks-up since ever fewer men would then want to marry a single mother, even worse if we had 2-3 kids of 2-3 different ex bfs that wouldn't marry us. How would I thrilled and jumping up and down with the man's agenda. It's a losing position for me. I don't want to lose.

[Shelly2002]

In the end everyone is looking after themselves so we're all going to lose in the end. There is no winner. If someone wins, someone loses. If the man wins in the cohabitation agenda and I gave myself in to him, give him my best years but end up childless and get ditched.. my market value is gone. I lose. How would I be happy about a position where I'm going to be jeopardized?

[Shelly2002]

In an ideal world, it should be cohabitation reserved for people of both genders that don't want marriage and are equally happy in that position and marriage to benefit for genders. So that in way, no one would end up losing. Ideally, everyone would be winning.

[Opinion Owner]

And this is the situation we all find ourselves in today because women have reset all the expectations. There was a reason women of the past didn't have sex before marriage. But today, women have made marriage too expensive for men, and sex too cheap.

My best advice for you is to only date serious men, communicate your desire for marriage, and make sure you are both on the same page about it. If you stay in a relationship with a man for years without him proposing, that's on you. And just don't get pregnant. That is in your control.

[Static_In_The_Attic]

As for cohabitation to some it might sound like a scam but to others cohabitation might sound like an insurance policy & a policy that allows you to walk away at any time. Marriage is like a hurricane there is a lot of blowing in the beginning & when it’s all said & done your house is gone. Marriage is a scam too & divorce lawyers love scams.

[Shelly2002]

If both parties truly never wanted marriage and are happy with cohabitation, that's different than if only one gender wants that and the other wants marriage eventually. That's where everyone loses.

[Shelly2002]

I don't feel safe nor secure with giving my best prime years, virginity and a child to a boyfriend, a man that's not even my fiance. He can still ditch me and I have to start all over, find commitment from another man and by then my market value decreases. If I'm childless because a boyfriend that claims to loves me wouldn't give me kids, my good years are gone forever and I would then be in a rush. If I get pregnant with a boyfriend and it ends up in a break-up, now I'm screwed as a single mother of a man that wouldn't commit lifetime and it's harder to then find a suitable, decent man that will commit to me and accept me a kid that isn't his.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely. But I lean more into believing it depends on the couple. There are plenty of both men and woman in a relationship for the right reasons. They want to be loved and be with someone whom they love.

[Shelly2002]

Cohabitation is only ok if both are on the same page with not wanting marriage at all, if both never want marriage then fine. It's not ok when the poor woman really believes moving in with a boyfriend is a step towards marriage and moves in with the expectation that he'll propose soon.

[Opinion Owner]

There will always be people who manipulate, the trick is to realize when you have find them.

[Shelly2002]

True liars are everywhere. Though I would be an impossible cookie for a manipulator since I'm adamant on keeping my virginity until either marriage or engaged with a wedding date. Since he would have no game, no convincing line that would change my stance... I would likely scare them away.

[Opinion Owner]

Be careful. Don't let the right moment with the right person slip away. Life has a funny way of not repeating the best things. Weddings and dates are things barely thought of on the other side of them.

[Anonymous]

I don’t believe in all this market value stuff, but if a girl wants to get married and she’s been living with a guy longer than a year and they’re not engaged yet, he’s probably not gonna propose. Of course, if she’s cool with that (maybe she doesn’t believe in marriage or she wants to keep her finances separate for her own reasons), then that’s fine.

[Shelly2002]

It's quite naive how several women really believe moving in together with a boyfriend is a step towards marriage when it's just sharing a house as roommates and enjoying the sex. While there is no proposal there is no step towards marriage.

[Opinion Owner]

It is a step toward marriage, but over a year probably means the guy isn’t really interested in getting married.

[JamesRandiDebates]

Actually LIVING with a bitch isn't enough "commitment" for her. She's not happy until she has the legal power to destroy your life and make you continue to pay her after she decides to leave. The SCAM is marriage. Never marry. Never cohabitate.

[Shelly2002]

I don't mind signing a prenup and helping him with the wedding cost. Honestly I don't want an expensive wedding nor expensive engagement ring either. It can be cheaper and simple. It's the original symbol meaning what I'm after, what it was suppose to be about. I'm a virgin so that means a lot to me.

[Anonymous]

Or she could just choose a man that actually wants to marry her instead of being a dumb💩.🤦‍♂️😆

[Shelly2002]

well yes. I'm about to do the vetting process very soon within this week. I have to say, I'll be limiting my dating pool by a lot but good.

[alice55]

cohabitation is 100 % a scam for women as the woman will act like they're married while they're not thus the guy not needing to wed her.

[Shelly2002]

yeah, hopefully they learn that living in together with a boyfriend isn't a step towards marriage. Time for them to wake up.

[alice55]

Yes, they truly need to, they're only getting used acting like that

[Nikki1989]

Please don't take marriage advice from anyone on here. That is asking for trouble.

[Shelly2002]

True. It's just that I've read too many ''is marriage a trap'' posts been; too many popping like crazy. If they get to trash marriage, then it makes me state my views about this perpetual living together thing (giving false hopes to women that want marriage) which I really believe it's a scam.

[Anonymous]

Cohabitation should be left for marriage or engagement. Living together beforehand is a mistake.

[Shelly2002]

Indeed. I would happily move in after an engagement with a wedding date.

[RavVid]

Basically is on both sides now. Till death wasn't but it was a serious commitment by both.

[RavVid]

In my country it has been changed so I have to dump you inside two years. So I guess that partially addresses your needs.

[Shelly2002]

and I would've have still wasted my virginity on a boyfriend that will then dump me; wasted for nothing. I'm not winning there. I'm losing.

[RavVid]

Kinda my point too. We are all losers in the current regime.

[LiamJHayden]

It can be if the guy leads her on with the promise of "in the future" when he has no intention of ever marrying.

[Shelly2002]

Exactly. That's a scammer. It would be a big difference if both of them never want marriage and are happy with it, if no one expects marriage. But several times that's not the case. The woman in those stories were led to believe moving in would lead to marriage; thus it's a scam.

[Jackblue]

In some states common law marriages have similar legal status to legal ones in that property would be split.

[Shelly2002]

yet it would be awkward having to explain to my future child that we're still boyfriend and girlfriend. I'm not very comfortable about having children out of wedlock.

[Unit1]

Women and their obsession over marriage. Not, that i blame them.

[Shelly2002]

About the same as your obsession towards free sex and maid services.

[Unit1]

Understandable.
However you're saying it like women don't like sex. And i can help out with maid services.

[CarolinaGirl5]

Exactly yet these women are stupid and do this to themselves

[Shelly2002]

Indeed. I'll never understand acting like a wife to a boyfriend; doing wife job at the price of girlfriend.

[Pete671]

Yes but marriage can just as easily be a scam for men who want commitment,,,

[Shelly2002]

So no one wins in the end. Since both positions (cohabitation vs marriage) seems to be one-sided then everyone loses. Ideally, it should be commitment a higher value than just living together, where both benefit from one another, both colaborate with each other.

[Shelly2002]

If the man doesn't trust me with marriage, then how am I suppose to trust him that my years and my virginity isn't going to be wasted if I move in with him and lose my v-card when we're just boyfriend and girlfriend. Here where this goes; so all of us will lose in the end. There is no winner.

[Pete671]

perfectly said! so many seem to commit based on what they can get out of the arrangement, the relationship. imho, is more important than either person in it,,,

[KrakenAttackin]

Why? Cohabitation (unless it's a common law state), keeps women honest.

[Shelly2002]

Then why are women that want marriage eventually, waiting for their proposals endlessly. Why do we continue hearing stories about the forever girlfriend trend, where the woman is unhappy about the situation? If it's not a scam then why is he taking too long to propose? If both were on the same page, where neither of them ever want marriage that's a different case but the stories and things I've heard are from women that want marriage but their long-term boyfriend isn't proposing after many years living together.

[KrakenAttackin]

Why is she so obsessed with marriage? Answer: she knows marriage benefits her far more than him. Marriage gives her "security" (leverage). Why should he give that to her?

[Shelly2002]

If it's not a scam, then both people would be equally happy. It's not a scam then there wouldn't be hearing anymore stories of the ''unhappy forever girlfriend'' waiting for a proposal.

[Shelly2002]

and cohabitation only benefits you guys, not us. You want us to follow your agenda and ignore our natural wants, a special moment from our families, to ignore all that? So basically it's like we're playing checkmate in chess here. If it helps I'm a virgin myself and refuse to move in together with someone I'm not engaged at least. I do mind my virginity badly and do not want bastard, wedlock children

[KrakenAttackin]

So it's basically a zero-sum-game which men are tired of losing. You ladies created the problem, it's up to you to fix it.

[Shelly2002]

I don't mind signing a prenup and actually don't care about the price of the engagement ring. It can be a simple proposal and cheap wedding. I can help out with money if the wedding cost is too much. At least I'm providing some solutions and making it easier for him.
On the other hand if I were to move in with a boyfriend and lose my virginity, besides ''I love you'' and ''One day we'll get married'' words (besides just words), how can I be 100% sure (not 50%..100%) it's going to lead to marriage and I'm not going to away my years and virginity for nothing? What is the back-up to his promise besides words?

[KrakenAttackin]

Also, cohabitation IS commitment on behalf of the man.

[Shelly2002]

and once again we all lose in the end since cohabitation is one-sided as well. This goes back to my same defense of ''Why should I adjust to his agenda, on his behalf, just HIS?

[Shelly2002]

What about me as a person with feelings, goals, views, ideals, etc? If he won't agree with marriage and I don't like his agenda either, both of us lose. There is no winner.

[KrakenAttackin]

Why should HE adjust to your demands? What about him as a person with goals, feelings, views ideals, etc? See how that works? HIS happiness actually MATTERS. Why can't women understand this basic fucking fact.

He knows you will stay an average of eight years, divorce him steal his children, steal half+ of his savings, get the house, car, everything in the house; while he pays you alimony and child support so you can have sex with randos in your marital bed.

Men are done accepting this.

[Shelly2002]

Just like more of us are catching up to the ''giving everything for free'' (even a child) to a boyfriend agenda. Basically we're back at nothing. Yet my parents are still married all these years and I don't know anyone in my family that has cheated nor been through a terrible divorce. I guess I'm speaking for a good experience, good upbringing from my family. My father talks good about his marriage to my mother. I guess you must've met a terrible woman that unfortunately makes it harder for the rest of us, wanting the old-fashioned love in marriage. You say men are done accepting this, yet my own father once advised me against cohabitation, said it should be in marriage like old times.

[KrakenAttackin]

Your father is correct.

[Anonymous]

Yeah. I'd advise you not to cohabit until you're at least engaged if not married.

[Shelly2002]

That's precisely why I'm saving my virginity. I'm not giving it away for free, for nothing.

[Opinion Owner]

Okay then!

[Anonymous]

Welcome to society post-sexual revolution. Many women are more than content with this arrangement too. You need to accept that the feminists and liberals were wrong or nothing will change.

[Shelly2002]

Yeah they pretty much have it all backwards. It used to be waiting till marriage; the man waited for the woman not us waiting till a man wants commitment. By waiting for the man, we can lose our valuable years. Makes no sense.

[kaucky1]

Mostly everything is a scam

[Shelly2002]

then no one wins in the end, everyone loses

[YessieRooo314]

Nope not at all.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Probably.

[RebeccaSJ]

It can be.