@Crucis84 I can't prove a negative. It's like me asking you to prove the Flying Spaghettis Monster is fake. You are the one who has to prove that God is real. The onus is on you :)
Actually, you can prove a negative. For example, if you demonstrate that a concept is self-contradictory (ex. a square circle), or if an argument is self-defeating. All it would take for atheists to prove the non-existence of God would be to demonstrate that the very idea is absurd, and yet they haven't been able to do that yet. The belief that "you can't prove a negative" is just silly. Of course you can. The Loch Ness monster, for example, would be shown to be non-existent if someone had the means, money, time and technology to search the entire lake.
Searching the universe would be the wrong approach. That would be like looking for the author of a novel within the novel itself, among the characters. Your objection makes no sense, especially in the light of what I've already told you about how an atheist could disprove God's existence. You clearly don't have what it takes within you to defend your position.
@Still-alive She has no point, and yes, God (not "god") can be defined in a manner that isn't contradictory, makes perfect sense, and finally solves the riddle as to why there is something rather than nothing. The arguments for God are easy enough to find, and it's only the lazy who insist there aren't any. People who just say "It's all BS" without giving any reasons for why they think it's all BS, simply can't be taken seriously.
What, in your view, would count as "proof" though? So many times before, atheists have asked me for "proof" or evidence, but whenever I would push them on the subject they would later on admit that really there is, or would be, no proof or evidence for God's existence they would ever accept. It's pointless arguing with people who are disingenuous, dishonest and utterly incurious about the reality they live in. Look up the arguments for God's existence, like the moral argument, or the various cosmological arguments.
@Still-alive What does God look like? That's like asking, "What does sound look like?" It makes no sense because what you're doing here is committing a category error. God isn't like anything we could explore with our five senses, because if we could then it wouldn't be God, but something physical.
@Still-alive Oh... my... GOD! Yes, I know you don't believe in God, but your response was... um... let's just say "embarrassing". Profoundly so. Tell me something, do you only believe what the scientific method tells you is true? I hope you don't, but I get the feeling your answer to this will be "yes". Well, in that case, could you possibly use the scientific method to prove to yourself, or anyone else for that matter (like "Supercutebutt" here) that you are actually conversing with a real person? I'm real, but perhaps you're not, or alternatively you may think that I'm a bot. Well, can you devise a test to determine that? Or how about this. Can the scientific method be used to determine philosophical presuppositions, like for example the belief in an independent, objective reality?
@AndrésC64 Can you "detect" your God? You make it sound as though we're searching for asteroids here. One wouldn't use the scientific method to "search for God", because that would be the wrong tool to use, the method having been developed to merely explain PHYSICAL phenomena alone, and nothing else.
@Still-alive What is there to "demonstrate"? Do you want me to perform an experiment here, or use some other trick to conjure God into your living-room or something? 'Supercutebutt' made a claim, the claim being that "it's all BS". She couldn't justify that remark, and so I see no good reason to believe her. That's what it all boils down to. I mean, people like you can go on believing that everything just magically popped into existence for no reason whatsoever from nothing, but don't expect others to actually take you seriously.
@Still-alive Look, it's okay to admit to being wrong about something you know. Do you have the maturity to do that? It's not hard. If I thought I was wrong about this I would simply concede that, because realistically we cannot expect to be always right.
@Still-alive "So you think you get to just berate us however you like but you can't handle it when the same is thrown back at you? what a coward you are lol. funny." Berate? Are you actually serious? WHERE did I do that? You're the one who called me, for no reason whatsoever, a "prick"! Unbelievable! You atheists really are all the same. You're arrogant, childish, insolent and foul-mouthed.
@Still-alive What "faith"? I'm not religious. I don't have any beliefs about the ultimate nature of reality, although I will concede that atheism is childish and silly, because clearly we're here for a reason. The choice isn't just between atheism and Christianity you know, because there ARE other options.
@Crucis84 so if this God of yours cannot be detected with any of our senses, how do you know it's real? Like I said, the undetectable is indistinguishable from the non-existent.
@AndrésC64 it can only be experienced, not proven. You can meet God by meditation, if you meet any other beings through meditation, it ain’t God so beware. If you meet alien looking beings, those are demons. Just be careful. Actually nvr mind stay asleep. Your time will come, when you finally see something or witness something, then you’ll know. But in the meantime, just disregard it all.
@AndrésC64 They’re not In anybodys head. Just because you haven’t heard or seen anything. Doesn’t mean other people haven’t. They live around you. Those entities good or evil live all around you. When your angry or you take drugs the evil ones try to possess you or take advantage of you. Stop trying to disprove, or disregard other peoples trauma.
no ones disregarding trauma... but when you make extraordinary claims... we demand extraordinary evidence... of which you or the other guy have provided none
@Still-alive@AndrésC64@genericname85@supercutebutt Also if you didn’t watch the videos above.. they satanic ones say that ; they drink blood from a human skull, that they have orgies to please the beast, that they commit murder in order for the beast to accept them, that they rape babies and drink baby’s blood. One of their main beliefs is, commit the biggest crime; either murder or rape, and you’ll be liberated from all crimes. AKA: you’re free of all sins and won’t be at fault anymore. That you’ll be free to do as you wish.
It’s also known in VOODOO, that they use human fingernails for the witchcraft to work.
( explain to me how all of this is actually practiced , if it didn’t actually work. 🤔🤔. You group of bots)
You said you have these experiences when you meditate. Are you telling me that you actually see/hear/talk to/feel/smell with your actual eyes/ears/mouth/skin/nose? And who said anything about trauma?
@Still-alive Extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence - oh for goodness sake, do you really believe that parroting a Carl Sagan cliche is clever or convincing? Define "extraordinary". What may be "extraordinary" for you, may not be for me. It's entirely SUBJECTIVE!
@AndrésC64 "The undetectable is indistinguishable from the nonexistent". In other words, you're basically claiming that anything that cannot be established using one of our five senses simply doesn't exist. To use another cliche, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
@Still-alive What kind of evidence do you want? Come on, tell me. If you say, "physical evidence, something I can see or hear, or in some other way sense", then you don't have a clue what you're talking about. This isn't about evidence, because God would be, by definition, non-physical (i. e. responsible for the appearance of the totality of physical existence). This is a purely philosophical argument, not a scientific one. What physical evidence is there that our assumptions about the existence of objective reality are accurate? The question doesn't even make sense, because our belief in objective reality is an assumption, a presupposition, a philosophical prejudice.
@Still-alive You "don't take seriously" philosophical arguments? Really? You just admitted to being completely ignorant and closed-minded without actually, explicitly say so. Do you know anything at all about philosophy?
@Still-alive How do you know it's real? Prove it. "Where's your evidence?", as you might say. You apparently accept the notion of an independent, objective reality, but why should I believe you?
@Crucis84 nahhh you still have yet to prove god exists... yet you still haven't so why should i even entertain proving to you whats already quite evident?
anyways im actually done talking to you now. you clearly didn't want an actual debate or conversation. you just came here to posture... glot about how you think you're right and owned us.
want the win? take it. all yours.
meanwhile i got better things to do than to entertain your ego
@Still-alive Oh, so you think that something that appears to us to be "self-evident" or "obvious" just HAS to be true. Well, in that case, the Earth really is flat, because isn't it obvious to us from our perspective here on the ground?
@Crucis You absolutely CAN NOT prove that aliens do not exist. And did you actually read the title of the HYPOTHESIS. Did you see that word HYPOTHESIS?
@Crucis84 Wrong again. I'm NOT claiming that something DOESN'T exist. I'm saying that if we can't detect it it is INDISTINGUISHABLE from something that DOESN'T exist. Maybe you should reread what I actually said.
@Still-alive I'm not talking about religion or "god", I'm talking about God, and yes, it's a purely philosophical concept. Throughout this conversation you've been trying to deflect, trying to change the subject, but that doesn't work with me. This isn't about religion, and it's not about Christianity or any of the claims made by that religion (ex. the resurrection). In response to the question, "If evil entities are real, then God is real?", SCB said, "It's all BS, my friends". She failed to convincingly explain why. Then you came along and she disappeared, so she failed to defend her claim. That being the case, I see no reason to accept it, and I also don't know why I'm even discussing this with you, because it's clear to me you're not interested in actually considering a viewpoint that goes against what you already accept as being true.
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It's all BS, my friends. :)
Prove it.
@Crucis84 The onus is on you to prove it, friend. :)
Whenever a person makes a claim, they have to justify that claim, provide either evidence or a reason for it. "It's all BS" is clearly a claim, so...
@Crucis84 I can't prove a negative. It's like me asking you to prove the Flying Spaghettis Monster is fake. You are the one who has to prove that God is real. The onus is on you :)
Actually, you can prove a negative. For example, if you demonstrate that a concept is self-contradictory (ex. a square circle), or if an argument is self-defeating. All it would take for atheists to prove the non-existence of God would be to demonstrate that the very idea is absurd, and yet they haven't been able to do that yet.
The belief that "you can't prove a negative" is just silly. Of course you can. The Loch Ness monster, for example, would be shown to be non-existent if someone had the means, money, time and technology to search the entire lake.
@Crucis84 OK sure. I will search the entire Universe for your God, you loon. LOL. Until I find him, we can't say he exists, though.
Searching the universe would be the wrong approach. That would be like looking for the author of a novel within the novel itself, among the characters. Your objection makes no sense, especially in the light of what I've already told you about how an atheist could disprove God's existence. You clearly don't have what it takes within you to defend your position.
@Crucis84 do you even know what this 'god' looks like and how to find this entity? if not i'd say supercutebutt has a good point.
@Still-alive She has no point, and yes, God (not "god") can be defined in a manner that isn't contradictory, makes perfect sense, and finally solves the riddle as to why there is something rather than nothing. The arguments for God are easy enough to find, and it's only the lazy who insist there aren't any.
People who just say "It's all BS" without giving any reasons for why they think it's all BS, simply can't be taken seriously.
@Crucis84 It's all BS because there is literally zero proof.
@Crucis84 ok so what does God look like? and how can we find it?
What, in your view, would count as "proof" though? So many times before, atheists have asked me for "proof" or evidence, but whenever I would push them on the subject they would later on admit that really there is, or would be, no proof or evidence for God's existence they would ever accept. It's pointless arguing with people who are disingenuous, dishonest and utterly incurious about the reality they live in.
Look up the arguments for God's existence, like the moral argument, or the various cosmological arguments.
@Crucis84 sounds like an excuse not to show because you know you got nothing concrete to show us lol. you coward...
@Still-alive What does God look like? That's like asking, "What does sound look like?" It makes no sense because what you're doing here is committing a category error. God isn't like anything we could explore with our five senses, because if we could then it wouldn't be God, but something physical.
@Crucis84 and how do you know that? who told you that? did you conduct the scientific method in order to prove that?
@Still-alive Oh... my... GOD! Yes, I know you don't believe in God, but your response was... um... let's just say "embarrassing". Profoundly so.
Tell me something, do you only believe what the scientific method tells you is true? I hope you don't, but I get the feeling your answer to this will be "yes".
Well, in that case, could you possibly use the scientific method to prove to yourself, or anyone else for that matter (like "Supercutebutt" here) that you are actually conversing with a real person? I'm real, but perhaps you're not, or alternatively you may think that I'm a bot. Well, can you devise a test to determine that?
Or how about this. Can the scientific method be used to determine philosophical presuppositions, like for example the belief in an independent, objective reality?
@Crucis84 " the scientific method tells you is true?"
usually yes.
So are you saying god is a 'philosophical presupposition?'
@Crucis84 The undetectable is indistinguishable from the nonexistent. Can you detect your God?
@AndrésC64 Can you "detect" your God? You make it sound as though we're searching for asteroids here. One wouldn't use the scientific method to "search for God", because that would be the wrong tool to use, the method having been developed to merely explain PHYSICAL phenomena alone, and nothing else.
@Crucis84 ou sound so confident that this is how god is.. yet you still haven't demonstrated how... odd
@Still-alive What is there to "demonstrate"? Do you want me to perform an experiment here, or use some other trick to conjure God into your living-room or something? 'Supercutebutt' made a claim, the claim being that "it's all BS". She couldn't justify that remark, and so I see no good reason to believe her. That's what it all boils down to. I mean, people like you can go on believing that everything just magically popped into existence for no reason whatsoever from nothing, but don't expect others to actually take you seriously.
@Crucis84 "Do you want me to perform an experiment here"
sure go right ahead. if you can do it we will shut up about it.
and lol if you think people take you seriously... like you come on here like a smug little prick thinking you 'owned' us or something...
all you're doing is demonstrating how badly you feel the need to bash those who disagree with you.
i wonder if we granted you that god did exist.. how you can prove its the christian god and not the other 1000's of gods throughout our history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6arhd4Kq1cI&t=190s
@Still-alive Oh, DO grow up!
@Crucis84 how very 'christian-like' of you.
so you think you get to just berate us however you like but you can't handle it when the same is thrown back at you? what a coward you are lol. funny.
@Still-alive Look, it's okay to admit to being wrong about something you know. Do you have the maturity to do that? It's not hard. If I thought I was wrong about this I would simply concede that, because realistically we cannot expect to be always right.
@Still-alive Oh, and another thing, did I ever say I was a Christian? You just assumed that. Why?
@Crucis84 ok what are you then sir? what faith?
@Still-alive "So you think you get to just berate us however you like but you can't handle it when the same is thrown back at you? what a coward you are lol. funny."
Berate? Are you actually serious? WHERE did I do that? You're the one who called me, for no reason whatsoever, a "prick"!
Unbelievable! You atheists really are all the same. You're arrogant, childish, insolent and foul-mouthed.
@Crucis84 haha there you are mr christian
"You're arrogant, childish, insolent and foul-mouthed. "
so nice of you awwww
you really didn't come here for a real honest debate all you wanna do is pretend like you owned us... just fess up already.
@Still-alive What "faith"? I'm not religious. I don't have any beliefs about the ultimate nature of reality, although I will concede that atheism is childish and silly, because clearly we're here for a reason. The choice isn't just between atheism and Christianity you know, because there ARE other options.
@Crucis84 ok like what? what are we here for? how did we get here?
@Crucis84 so if this God of yours cannot be detected with any of our senses, how do you know it's real? Like I said, the undetectable is indistinguishable from the non-existent.
@AndrésC64 it can only be experienced, not proven. You can meet God by meditation, if you meet any other beings through meditation, it ain’t God so beware. If you meet alien looking beings, those are demons. Just be careful. Actually nvr mind stay asleep.
Your time will come, when you finally see something or witness something, then you’ll know. But in the meantime, just disregard it all.
So you are admitting that all of these "meetings" that you've had occur in your head.
@EmyyWolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLBDFe3mDtk&t=11s
this video is for you. you can swap out 'jesus' for 'god' and this still applies...
@AndrésC64 They’re not In anybodys head.
Just because you haven’t heard or seen anything. Doesn’t mean other people haven’t. They live around you. Those entities good or evil live all around you. When your angry or you take drugs the evil ones try to possess you or take advantage of you. Stop trying to disprove, or disregard other peoples trauma.
no ones disregarding trauma... but when you make extraordinary claims... we demand extraordinary evidence... of which you or the other guy have provided none
@Still-alive @AndrésC64 @genericname85 @supercutebutt
Also if you didn’t watch the videos above.. they satanic ones say that ;
they drink blood from a human skull,
that they have orgies to please the beast,
that they commit murder in order for the beast to accept them,
that they rape babies and drink baby’s blood.
One of their main beliefs is, commit the biggest crime; either murder or rape, and you’ll be liberated from all crimes. AKA: you’re free of all sins and won’t be at fault anymore. That you’ll be free to do as you wish.
It’s also known in VOODOO, that they use human fingernails for the witchcraft to work.
( explain to me how all of this is actually practiced , if it didn’t actually work. 🤔🤔. You group of bots)
im not watching any of your qanon bs...
EmyyWolf, it sounds like you are battling mental illness. I'm sad. :(
You said you have these experiences when you meditate. Are you telling me that you actually see/hear/talk to/feel/smell with your actual eyes/ears/mouth/skin/nose? And who said anything about trauma?
@Still-alive Exactly. And there'd be another step before we could even come to any kind of conclusion that it's a god. Maybe it's an alien.
@Still-alive Extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence - oh for goodness sake, do you really believe that parroting a Carl Sagan cliche is clever or convincing? Define "extraordinary". What may be "extraordinary" for you, may not be for me. It's entirely SUBJECTIVE!
@AndrésC64 Aliens don't exist. Search: 'Rare Earth Hypothesis'.
SCB - Are you always this rude, arrogant and offensive?
@Crucis84 ok lets see your evidence.
you're just stalling at this point lol
@Crucis84 "Are you always this rude, arrogant and offensive?"
no but you sure are clearly... you're on the offense and you have NOTHING. you've produced no evidence at all... nothing lol. its pretty astounding..
@AndrésC64 "The undetectable is indistinguishable from the nonexistent".
In other words, you're basically claiming that anything that cannot be established using one of our five senses simply doesn't exist. To use another cliche, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
@Crucis84 "you're basically claiming that anything that cannot be established using one of our five senses simply doesn't exist. "
nope he is not claiming that... foolish of you to assume...
@Still-alive What kind of evidence do you want? Come on, tell me. If you say, "physical evidence, something I can see or hear, or in some other way sense", then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
This isn't about evidence, because God would be, by definition, non-physical (i. e. responsible for the appearance of the totality of physical existence). This is a purely philosophical argument, not a scientific one. What physical evidence is there that our assumptions about the existence of objective reality are accurate? The question doesn't even make sense, because our belief in objective reality is an assumption, a presupposition, a philosophical prejudice.
@Crucis84 " then you don't have a clue what you're talking about."
nor do you apparently...
"God would be, by definition, non-physical"
ok wheres your source on that?
"his is a purely philosophical argument, not a scientific one."
ok then we don't have to take you seriously
"What physical evidence is there that our assumptions about the existence of objective reality are accurate? "
everywhere... you are just refusing to see it because you are blind. and seem to have an agenda here.
"The question doesn't even make sense, because our belief in objective reality is an assumption"
nahhh its pretty real...
@Still-alive You "don't take seriously" philosophical arguments? Really? You just admitted to being completely ignorant and closed-minded without actually, explicitly say so. Do you know anything at all about philosophy?
@Crucis84 no only when you reduce all of religion and god into a 'philosophical argument'
i won't take you or that seriously..
@Still-alive How do you know it's real? Prove it. "Where's your evidence?", as you might say. You apparently accept the notion of an independent, objective reality, but why should I believe you?
@Crucis84 nahhh you still have yet to prove god exists... yet you still haven't so why should i even entertain proving to you whats already quite evident?
anyways im actually done talking to you now. you clearly didn't want an actual debate or conversation. you just came here to posture... glot about how you think you're right and owned us.
want the win? take it. all yours.
meanwhile i got better things to do than to entertain your ego
@Still-alive Oh, so you think that something that appears to us to be "self-evident" or "obvious" just HAS to be true. Well, in that case, the Earth really is flat, because isn't it obvious to us from our perspective here on the ground?
@Crucis84 you can measure it easily through the scientific method...
@Crucis You absolutely CAN NOT prove that aliens do not exist. And did you actually read the title of the HYPOTHESIS. Did you see that word HYPOTHESIS?
@Crucis84 Wrong again. I'm NOT claiming that something DOESN'T exist. I'm saying that if we can't detect it it is INDISTINGUISHABLE from something that DOESN'T exist. Maybe you should reread what I actually said.
@Still-alive I'm not talking about religion or "god", I'm talking about God, and yes, it's a purely philosophical concept. Throughout this conversation you've been trying to deflect, trying to change the subject, but that doesn't work with me. This isn't about religion, and it's not about Christianity or any of the claims made by that religion (ex. the resurrection).
In response to the question, "If evil entities are real, then God is real?", SCB said, "It's all BS, my friends". She failed to convincingly explain why. Then you came along and she disappeared, so she failed to defend her claim. That being the case, I see no reason to accept it, and I also don't know why I'm even discussing this with you, because it's clear to me you're not interested in actually considering a viewpoint that goes against what you already accept as being true.
@Crucis84 ok go away now
@supercutebutt it sounds to me like your a NOC , I’m sad
Enigma words are kinda true
neither are real.
yup 100%