Does formal education make someone less religious? If so, how?

[BCRanger10]

I've read the recent Gallup survey that reported on the decline in religious belief, identification, and participation in the US. One line in particular that I've seen posted here and on other social media sites, reads "belief in a literal Bible is highest among those who are more religious and among those with less formal education" (emphasis is mine).

Does more formal education make someone less religious, or ought it to? And if so, how and why? The implication that I take from those posting this quote, based on either my personal knowledge of them or my observations, is that it should.

I'll post my thoughts in an update later on.

[Rosexøxø]

I mean entrepreneurs and anyone trying to get familiar with an occupation that will bring them more money, recognition, fulfilled desires (short term or not) will be cynical of any spiritual belief because they’ll be too busy- supposedly enjoying the life they’re in pursuit of and striving for. With all the knowledge they fill in their head, could cause them to believe that knowledge to be so logical, that anything else is folly. They’re obsessed with their life and may even reach a life of comfort that they could tangibly compare to others and therefore find satisfaction in that, even on their worst of days. Same could be true for the workaholic (preoccupied), regardless of his or her wages, and their level of interest in their occupation, as well as their goals. If you step back and look at the less educated you would see lack of goals or goals that ‘dim out’ by the weight of poverty. You’ll see some people who are pleased in the simplistic way of living. These types of people are more likely to stop every once and a while, from simple leisure to being forced to because they’re out of jobs. They don’t always live lives of comfort and may be able to test out what works for them. A lot of these factors can be why they would be more prone to consider a spiritual life and believe it. Some say religion is for the ‘once upon a time,’ gullible people of our ancient history, who didn’t know what we know now, today. True for them then, but the people alive in today’s society are without a doubt, far more advanced than those back then. Nearly every person now as an adult may have streaks of cynicism, yet while this is true, the fact remains: the less educated, the simplistic, and less fortunate seem most receptive to spirituality. The demographics are higher for them- true, but there are many successful people who cultivate spiritual lives with sincerity, and others who still do consider it. They’re demographic is just clearly not equal, or surpassing the former demographic I mentioned. Any person of science would come to oppose religion and spirituality if they do not use their own mind to think of all components of life, but just believe what they’re fed. They should have a healthy level of cynicism of religion and science. The fact is many- based on their upbringings, influential people, and their own preoccupations will lead them to be overly cynical of one over the other- and that is a real shame.

[JustiReno]

Naw just I won’t stand for someone who knows absolutely NOTHING about Christianity tell me some BS, get a PhD in biblical studies before you tell someone they are going to hell.

[Rosexøxø]

@JustiReno I don’t know what your comment is responding to or if you’re suggesting anything. Your comment as itself is something I can agree with. I see your logic and I respect it. Too many people do throw the words “you’re going to hell” around and they have the wrong heart for people and the wrong heart in saying that. That all can be paired with them knowing little about God as well. Despite all this, apologies for anyone who offended you in bashing you and trying to I don't know indoctrinate you. That’s the wrong display/ inaccurate way to talk to another person especially about beliefs and God.

[JustiReno]

My bad @Rosexøxø … I’m super tired but no excuse, I’m not offended and think I understand what you’re writing here better now, “They should have a healthy level of cynicism of religion and science.” - I actually 100% ageee my bad!

[Rosexøxø]

@JustiReno Heyy, no worries.🙂 I was honestly just trying to understand what led you to comment, and couldn’t find it. Looking at the info in the comment, I could agree and sympathize, so I tried to express that the best way I could. Rest easy 🙏😊

[Rosexøxø]

@ Rosie xoxo oof I also want to clarify my hey was super casual to give you some peace of mind, I didn’t think it’d actually be a link to something else 🤣. That’s hilarious. Anyways, take caree lol

[JustiReno]

LOL it’s all good @Rosexøxø please bonk me for trolling 🏏 🦭

[Rosexøxø]

@JustiReno No worries. All are opportunities to take time and explain our opinions, to the best of our abilities 😌.

[Smoke-n-Growls]

Becoming more educated often comes with learning critical thinking and doing more research and reading into world history.

The Bible falls apart as a source of truth when you look at it critically. Especially once you look through the history of the Catholic church and the history of the Bible.

But also, it's worth noting in uneducated circles, it's often an echo chamber. When you get out of that and move to higher education, you end up learning about more religions, more worldviews, and meeting new people. Breaking the echochamber.

[BCRanger10]

"The Bible falls apart as a source of truth when you look at it critically. Especially once you look through the history of the Catholic church and the history of the Bible."

In what ways?

And can atheists and otherwise irreligious people not themselves get into echo chambers?

[Smoke-n-Growls]

Lmao, they can, but they'll get failed if they don't have sources.

Whereas Bible thumpers think the Bible is the word of God but many still wear two types of cloth in the same garment and eat meat on Fridays.

[JustiReno]

I’m not allowed to believe in Jesus because I believe in one god 😉

[BCRanger10]

What do you mean they'll "get failed if they don't have sources"?

And what do two garments and meat on Fridays have to do with anything?

[SixFootSexy]

In regards to education, it's a shame how few Christians have read much of Nietzsche, (or philosophy in general) but it's important to understand the questions each worldview is attempting to answer, with all views having incomplete information that must be extrapolated into the past and future. "To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Atheism puts an emphasis on doubt, of all objective or universal truths. No human suffering has any cosmic or lasting meaning, as we are all results of random and accidental chance. Destined to perish in the eventual heat death of the universe, no matter how many people Elon is able to colonize Mars with or any other planet.

Christians choose to believe on faith in a historical and divine Jesus, that history has bookends where the Creator chooses to create humans in His own image. Shortly thereafter, they choose to follow their own way which leads Adam & Eve to death and suffering outside of perfection in the garden of Eden.

“The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven” -1 Cor. 15:45-49 Whether that faith is misplaced or not, we will see in the afterlife.

There are still lingering doubts for the most honest folks, no matter the belief system.

[JustiReno]

Nietzsche Disgusts me, so reactionary and pessimistic

[SixFootSexy]

@JustiReno even a broken clock is right twice a day. I know he died of syphilis, so that's kind of disgusting.

[JustiReno]

Yeah his little Dionysus cult so corny tbh

[RedThread]

That seems to be the trend but there are probably other factors at play. Another person said correlation doesn't always imply causation and that's absolutely true. How many people can afford a long-term education? I've read that wealth factors into religiosity as well. People coming from a wealthy background tend to be less religious and they can afford more formal education without being blasted with debt at least in the American education system. There can be loads of variables at play here that aren't taken into consideration.

Another potential variable is that universities and colleges usually bring together loads of diverse peoples from around the world with many belief systems and cultural values. With all those ideas being thrown around and questioned, the only potential outcomes are either being more confident in your deeply held convictions or less. I was a computer science major so nothing in my courses involved religion or spirituality (I took a couple really interesting philosophy courses as a multicultural elective but they didn't focus on any particular brand of theism) but even I had a lot of values questioned after making friends with a lot of new people. I'm from a small rural town so I wasn't exposed to a lot of different ways of thinking and seeing the world before I experienced university. It certainly opened my eyes to how a lot of people live and view the world and their places in it. It definitely caused me to see things more grey instead of black and white. I think experiences like that can really change how people think whether it's about religion or any other topic.

[jennifer_bloom]

I think it depends on how you relate to your faith - I view the bible as allegory - not saying the events did not happen - but the lessons are primarily metaphorical and not material

[Robbey]

Believe in a literal bible is a relatively new practice that is rejected by every church predating the Reformation. It’s also been rejected by mainstream varieties of Christianity stemming from the Reformation.

Formal education doesn’t necessarily result in decline in religious belief. The fact that the clergy of any mainstream variety of Christianity are required to have completed 3-4 years of graduate level education alone renders that problematic (incidentally, becoming a Jewish Rabbi requires about six years). The fact that older European universities were outgrowths of the Church does as well. As does the fact that our theories of gravity, evolution, the Big Bang and (I’m almost positive) the cracking of the genetic code were the work of committed Christians with the later two also being clergy.

Formal education and with it critical thinking doesn’t negate religion including Christianity. However, it does transform it into something more sophisticated than “I know it’s true because the Bible tells me so” and other silliness.

[SaoirseS]

I usually avoid religious questions, though in this case it seems benign enough.

The problem with the term "religious" is that it is too abstract and defies quantification, which is why I place little stock in polls and surveys. Is a person being "religious" defined by attendance at organized services? The number of times and/or the occasions which a person prays? Is an Easter-Christmas Christian less religious than someone who attends weekly worship services? Etc.

Like everything else on the net, there may be some information to suggest lower education equates to "more religious," but there are also pieces (although a few years old) that suggest education level makes no difference. It's all a matter of picking a narrative one wants to believe.

[Rosexøxø]

Well said 🤝

[razelove]

Correlation does not equal causation. In this case though, it's tough to have faith and curiosity to learn at the same time. Mine got broken from actually reading the bible a couple times rather than following a doctrine. Still and all, whether you believe or not, church is one of very few positive family organizations.

I might not be able to believe, but my kids love it, so we're there every Sunday. If you're truly smart, rather than spiteful, you can lose your faith, but won't piss on other people's parades because of that. A lot of good, and values that are concrete and helpful throughout life come from church that are harder to instill without that framework.

[BCRanger10]

How does faith make curiosity more difficult?

[Guy13]

We partake in glorifying Self in all thing as we enlighten ourselves into god much as Satan did. We are made in God’s image with the heart of Satan, defiantly opposed to an Absolute Truth that must be followed absolutely. We have both outgrown and overachieved our Creator as we sinfully feast upon the love of Self and it’s lusts, idolatry, and indulgence.
Education that does not incorporate an In Christ Jesus knowing is grounded in the ways of the lord of the earth (Satan), therefore, such men are educated into spiritual imbecility. Theses ones destined for eternal death and at enmity with God tortured in their own Self-grandiosity. This is Lucifer’s story.

[OlderAndWiser]

"belief in a literal Bible is highest among those who are more religious and among those with less formal education" Does 'belief in a literal Bible' mean the same thing as "religious" to you?

[BCRanger10]

The impression that I get is that most people think so.

[OlderAndWiser]

Not me.

[OddBeMe]

I would say less “specifically” religious. Meaning certain set of rules, etc. Thats the benefit of education: you're given the ability to think for yourself.

Spiritual or maybe more 9loosely religious” is more likely. Of course this has nothing to do with whether one believes a God exists.

Strangely, cults are filled more by highly educated, accomplished folks. Just read about the Branch Davidians down in Waco that burned to death after a 90 day FBI shootout. Lots of lawyers, professors, etc, in that group thought David Koresh was Jesus 2.0.

[BCRanger10]

"I would say less “specifically” religious. Meaning certain set of rules, etc."

Why do you think so?

[OddBeMe]

Because education means independence

[BCRanger10]

In what way?

[OddBeMe]

Seriously? The more learned you are the less reliant you are on pre-established systems.

[BCRanger10]

Not necessarily. According to Albert Einstein, the object of education is to train the mind to think. That would imply a certain set of pre-existing parameters that the mind ought to work within.

[OddBeMe]

Debatable. I think you’re misreading Einstein.

He’s saying stay out of parameters and think for yourself…which education helps train.

Yeah education could be described as a pre-existing parameter. But I think it’s like therapy. The point is to train you to heal yourself.

[BCRanger10]

Right, but you still have to stay within the limits of a given discipline.

[OddBeMe]

I guess it depends on definitions. But we’re talking semantics.

There are people who need the promise of divine reward to be good and those who just do it because it’s right.

[BCRanger10]

Can it not be both/and?

[JustiReno]

@BCRanger10 iono bro I hate to break this to you … but Jesus ain’t real, god ain’t personal, and there’s no life after death, hope you take care

[Therisinghero12]

I don't know but I dont think so, I think it's more about if you question your beliefs and the world around you often, as well as what you've been told growing up. For example I was just never introduced to religion when young so I grew up non-religious, and when I was introduced it didn't fit my understanding of the world and really didn't fit with my personal beliefs, so it just never took.
In my opinion getting someone to be religious really depends on them being a certain kind of person or indoctrinating them early

[Lionman95]

No I would disagree because I think it depends on your definition of religion and it depends on the subject you had your formal education in. Being religious is something that comes variety meaning not all people that identify as Christian take the Bible 100% literal. Besides that there are scientists that are or were Christians.
I would say they can be a corollation but it doesn´t need to be there.

[JustiReno]

Yes, because smart people don’t believe that BS, period. Iono how you could? It’s such a foreign and alien idea to me but then again I didn’t grow up with this even though I went to a black “catholic” K-8 and Jesuit high school. Your so freakin amazed by this book it makes me laugh, trust some rando old man high on drugs ok 😭

[genericname85]

well simply cause as you learn the methods of gathering knowledge, you don't really see a need for millenia old legends to tell you what's true and real. cause you can go look for yourself.

if you never learn that, well obviously you stick with the bible. of course childhood indoctrination is a very powerfull tool, which is why even some highly educated people still stick with the bible, simply cause old habits die hard.

[JustiReno]

I agree with you 100%

[In_Trance]

not necessarily. Correlation does not mean causation

[BCRanger10]

That was something on which I was going to comment, but I figured the original post would get too long otherwise XD.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

I went to public school and reside with irreligious folks. I grew up atheist and later believed at 14 and follow Islam at 17 and even a bit of the Torah. I’ve met an irreligious lad who told me that for prom in his Christian school a pupil’s date must be of the opposite sex/gender. I don’t think education is a big factor in making people religious or not.

[JustiReno]

Why don’t you become a Freemason? Emancipate the slaves, or yourself

[HippieVeganJewslim]

@JustiReno I ain’t sure about what Freemason does. I’ve heard that people judge them as antisemitic, and that ain’t me. I can’t emancipate anyone, not even myself.

[BillyBalls]

If "religious" means sticking to the religion you were born into then maybe.

I was born and raised Catholic. I had 16 years of Catholic education.

In high school and college, I learned about different religious and philosophical concepts.

So I don't call myself a Catholic. I now believe in what I refer to as the "mystical hand of the universe".

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

No. Very educated people still practice actively their religion or have a religion.

What makes someone less religious or not dedicated to religion is prosperity.

The more success and money you have the less likely you will be using your time seeking out religion or being dedicated to your religion.

[dustybiker]

If the religion doesn’t make sense. Education can bring clarity to dots that do not connect. So, yes. It could. Unless the person has a history that comforts them and or keeps an open mind.

[jshm2]

No. The opposite.

Also, the gallop poll was flawed as it assumed a lot when it comes to belief and faith.

[JustiReno]

When was Jesus born?

[MikeInHawaii]

I think liberal arts majors tend to be less religious. Studies have shown the most religious members of most college faculties are the science professors.

[slatyb]

Which studies? I think it’s the opposite or equal.

[MikeInHawaii]

@slatyb I don’t always carry around footnotes for everything I’ve ever read.

[VikingWarLord]

Knowledge is power and once you get more knowledge, the more you move away from fairytales like the big 3 Abrahamic Death Cults (Judaism, Christianity and Islam).

[NathanDavis]

religious people made me non-religious... lol