Do religious schools violate the separation of church and state?

[WilliamPamer446]

I know there usually private schools.

Im wondering, if they make laws based on the bible, if they use corporal punishment, if they teach kids controversial ideas, are they legally allowed to do that if they say the bible endorses it or its a part of there specific faith denomination and there saying that they are trying to do good for there kid?

[jshm2]

No. Even the term "separation of church and state" is erroneous and largely meaningless. The Church, and various non linked Christian bodies, can have democratic representation, or even lobby groups, and think tanks having direct influence on government and it's decisions. It just cannot be an independent government body itself, is all.

Hence your question is moot.

As for schools, religious or otherwise. If they are public, then they will have a government set curriculum which will be leaning towards their values. If they are private, then they can have any curriculum they like, as they are no recourse to public funds.

[BeMuse]

Nope, they are private institutions that you have to make an active choice to attend and pay tuition for. They aren't run by the state.

[WilliamPamer446]

Alright I guess that what I meant is "can they."

In these situations, would you consider it a violation

1( Institutin corporal punishment

2( promoting hate toward lgbtq

3( being sexist and demeaning to femlae students

4( incorporating biblical values into there school

(5 incorporating there specific denomination into there school

(6 ignoring parents wishes to teach the kid what they think is right

[BeMuse]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

I have no issue with private institutions practicing and promoting their religious values so long as said religions don't violate other basic rights. So, if parents agree to basic corporal punishment in private institutions of their own children I don't see an issue with it if it's not excessive/abusive. They are authorizing the school to act as a parent could legally act in punishment of their own child for disciplinary actions. Obviously everyone has freedom of speech so promoting anti-LGBTQ, sexism, biblical values, specific religious denominations, etc. all fall under freedom of speech and free exercise of religion. So long as the school meets basic education goals in core areas such as math, science, language arts, and social studies to be accredited as a school, what they do with their elective or extracurricular time is up to the private school within the bounds of what is legal.

[BeMuse]

I’d hold the same opinion of a private school that taught Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or even some new age Satanism that promoted LGBTQ, feminism, and atheism so long as they aren’t having child sex orgies, human sacrifice, or anything else that would be deemed illegal and a violation of child safety. If that’s your religion and you want to found a religion and private school and there are parents willing to finance and supply a demand toward that sort of education, then go practice your religion. That said, the state should not be involved in private schooling. The easiest way to resolve all the disputes would probably be to eliminate mandatory public school from 6-16 in state laws as it is now and the associated property taxes that relate to funding public school systems and then just have people pay private schools that reflect their values to teach their children as they see fit. With online programs, schooling could be very affordable to even the poorest people these days.

[WilliamPamer446]

I think it would be wrong to push one specific denomination on the kids and to demean women

[WilliamPamer446]

They dont have to be pro LGBTQ but they shouldn't dehumanize children

[WilliamPamer446]

They shouldn't push reliigion to hard, the kids didn't choose to go there, there parents made them

[BeMuse]

Well that’s not your call. Parents are responsible for their own children. They get to decide how to raise their own children. If you want to send your kids to a school that’s not all that religious, then that is where you should spend your money. Let the market decide which education models are in most demand. As is often stated, it is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it. Just because someone attends a specific school with a specific religion, doesn’t mean they will choose to adopt that religion. For example, my father grew up in a very Catholic family. He went to Catholic school through his entire upbringing. The nuns would smack his hands with rulers and stuff like that and he decided to not be all that religious as an adult by his own free will. When he married my mother who was from a different Christian denomination, my grandmother was not at all happy about it. But that happened and life moved on. When my brother attended a prominent catholic prep-school where just about everyone went onto college in the ivy league, half the kids that attended were Jewish. You don’t have to believe in the faith of the school you attend. It happens all the time. You’re just learning about the faith of other people. It doesn’t mean you have to believe it yourself.

[WilliamPamer446]

Yeah but int his situation the religion would be forced or pressured or coereced on the kids. Which I tihink is wrong. They dont usually do that, but they can.

[BeMuse]

At the school my brother went to, they had to attend religious service a couple times a week at school. All the Jews went as well. Even if you are forced to attend religious services as part of your curriculum, it doesn't mean you have to believe what you are seeing... Haven't you ever been to a funeral of someone from a different religion? Did that convert you to their religion? Did you start to practice their faith and their rituals? Or did you just observe how other people do things and then at the end of the service you left and went on with your life? Exposure to different ideas, isn't the end of the world. Think about all the gay parades, gay books, gay movies, gay TV shows that your people have made over the years, yet here I am still straight. It didn't change a thing even though it was pushed by mainstream media my entire youth constantly even in some of my favor shows. I've even read material on queer theory. I strongly disagree with it, but I like to understand different groups of people.

[BeMuse]

It seems to me that you are afraid of different opinions, free thought, and free speech. You want to control what people think like a tyrant.

[WilliamPamer446]

Where the hell did that come from. I dont care if they go to church services sometimes as part of the school but I dont think they should make kids who aren't in that denomination or religion go as there's no real point and they would just get bored and not pay attention. I love free speech all my life and free thought and different opinions. I was just pointing out specific situations where I think religious schools could cross a line.

[WilliamPamer446]

You went out and throw the word tyrant at me, the other day you said black people are "slave bitches" to elites. Be more respectful on my post or dont come around here on my questions any more

[BeMuse]

You just proved my point. You're a bigot. You can't deal with different ideas.

[BeMuse]

Bigot: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas.

[Anonymous]

Religious school aren't funded by taxes like public schools. Separation of church and state doesn't apply. Students need to be pass an admissions exam and tuition is required to attend.

Curriculum varies based on religious denomination, but usually follows one comparable to public schools in the region with the addition of a faith-related teaching.

[WilliamPamer446]

Alright I guess that what I meant is "can they."

In these situations, would you consider it a violation

1( Institutin corporal punishment

2( promoting hate toward lgbtq

3( being sexist and demeaning to femlae students

4( incorporating biblical values into there school

(5 incorporating there specific denomination into there school

(6 ignoring parents wishes to teach the kid what they think is right

[Opinion Owner]

These situations are derived from religious schools' reputation 50 years ago. Today's religious schools are very different. They're teach everything public schools teach with religion added in. Some public schools in the South refuse to teach evolution. Instead, they teach creationism. That's the REAL violation of separation of church and state! Religion has no place in a public school.

1 - Corporal punishment isn't used or permitted.

2 - While the religion may not approve of LGBTQ+, the school does not promote hate. Students aren't expected to or encouraged to agree.

3 - I've never heard of a religious school being sexist or demeaning to women. In fact, some religious schools are not co-ed. The female-only schools exist to provide educational opportunities that girls aren't traditionally given.

4 - A religious school may have a class dedicated to teaching their religion, but it's educational, not worship. Explaining the tenets of faith is not the same as preaching.

5 - A specific denomination establishes and operates the school. Of course their denomination is incorporated. That doesn't mean other denominations or religions aren't also taught. Again, it's educational, not worship.

6 - Ignoring parents wishes doesn't make sense. Parents choose to send their children to religious schools and pay a lot of money in tuition for them to attend. They're fully aware of what their child will be taught. Often that's the reason parents choose religious schools. They want them to learn the faith.

I went to Catholic school K-12. My responses are based on what I experienced. Not all students were Catholic, some weren't even Christian. Religion was a part of school, but it wasn't a dominating factor in daily life. I'm not a religious person, but I wouldn't change a thing about my time in Catholic schools.

[WilliamPamer446]

I wasn't tryng to attack religious schools I am asking if they do these things would they be violating the seperation of church and state and would they be in trouble temporarily or shut down

[Opinion Owner]

The schools aren't doing them, so there's violation. If the schools were doing them, Aside from corporal punishment, none of the situations are illegal and are within their rights as a religious school.

[WilliamPamer446]

I think they should be allowed to say there opinion on lgbtq even if its offensive, but they shouldn't promote killing. and they shouldn't shame kids or pressure kids to have the same religious opinions.

[WilliamPamer446]

and it should be considered illegal to abuse little girls and teenage girls and I think they could do that if they were being sexist. I heard they can deny them any credibility when talking about sexual assault. This should be seen as illegal and a violation of justice. There should be a serious investigation. Innocent till proven guilty. But still looked into.

[Opinion Owner]

The schools teach the religion's stance on issues, but don't say the it's right or wrong, or pressure students to agree.

I've heard nothing about the sexual assault of girls that you're referring to. The most common stories involve priests with children. It happened a lot and was covered up. That is disgusting and unforgivable. The church is paying dearly now, as it should.

[Opinion Owner]

Actual violations of church and state:

1 - The addition of "under God" to pledge of allegiance.

2 - The addition of "In God We Trust" to US currency.

Both additions occured during the Cold War as an affront to Russia, but they're in direct violation of separation of church and state.

[WilliamPamer446]

Alright but I do think religious schools can cross a line at times.

Muslim and Jewish schools exist to, I think.

[Sirenboobzilla]

I'm not a fan of religious schools. But they don't fall I'm that category as they are privately funded

[Zbrody1997]

No it’s a parents choice where to send their kids though unfair as it is. I feel the child should learn about multiple religions but also learn claiming none is okay as well before making a choice of their religion

[KnewHOUSE]

Yes , but the church has the right to control contrary any thing an be still within rites and right.

[KnewHOUSE]

There are 7 branches that control the United States of America, "Churches"
Has No rites to go State Body with your Faith.
Although churches can have a say so what faith in fullness is , but they Do
Not have the right or rights to go State Body. The 7 Religion that is in Are USA can and should not go State Body into/unto Holy god word.
All others that is not a part of that frame with word or words within holy god words may be able to go State with there kingdom.
ll

[WilliamPamer446]

Alright I guess that what I meant is "can they."

In these situations, would you consider it a violation

1( Institutin corporal punishment

2( promoting hate toward lgbtq

3( being sexist and demeaning to femlae students

4( incorporating biblical values into there school

(5 incorporating there specific denomination into there school

(6 ignoring parents wishes to teach the kid what they think is right

[KnewHOUSE]

The Churches that has to follow Form into body with unto our Holy word are as followed , Holiness, angelican, Catholic, Protestant, Calvary, Presbyterian, Islam these Seven churches can not change there form to STATE Church Body unless all 7 agreed and that's not going to happen in the United States. This will cause a war on the United States soil to keep RITES unto/into
Right s form

[WilliamPamer446]

So you saying there's a line they can't cross or there being vigilantes by running the school in a rebellious way

[KnewHOUSE]

Somewhat yes if you feel that this school is using for instance.
The mayor has a kid in school and has parents vote for his dad using that CHURCH school fundraiser. The Mayor would get in trouble plus the school would lose things.
I think that would be voters fraud.
That CHURCH school has a fund and form to stay into an unto Holy Rites and follow the State law rights.
One can shut down a school if that was to happen. L. ol..

[WilliamPamer446]

so which of the things I listed out would be a violation.

I think corporal punishment, religion/denomination pushing/coercion, proclaiming that lgbt people should die or shaming kids who disagree with there view, forcing them to pray, demeaning female children and teenagers would become criminal at some point.

[WilliamPamer446]

My idea of vigilanitism is a positive and neutral one which can be corrupted into a bad one. A vigilante can have noble goals and carry them out in morallly complex, good bad or neutral ways.

I dont agree with a religious school harming children or breaking laws. I agree with them being able to run the school and teach there values and views, but they shouldn't shame or stifle the kids, do the toxic stuff I mentioned.

[KnewHOUSE]

Harming and hurting , bullying is different that stuff shouldn't be in any school.
What subject with no name calling if I may ask

[WilliamPamer446]

well if they take the bible literally they can start lashing kids, cutting there hand off, treating female teenagers weird on there period and isolating them from other students, tell lgbt kids they should be put to death.

[KnewHOUSE]

I will tell you who we are and you let youself know.
It is a crime to CUT OFF their heads.
We still haven't got caught yet 😃
L. o. l Learning Our Liven W. B. W.

[Anonymous]

I really don't know, but I would hope they wouldn't.

[WilliamPamer446]

Alright I guess that what I meant is "can they."

In these situations, would you consider it a violation

1( Institutin corporal punishment

2( promoting hate toward lgbtq

3( being sexist and demeaning to femlae students

4( incorporating biblical values into there school

(5 incorporating there specific denomination into there school

(6 ignoring parents wishes to teach the kid what they think is right