Truth can't contradict Truth. What do you think of this typical moral debate problem?

[Wade12345]

i am debating moral codes with a roommate, and he is a subjective truther/subjective morals believer. He keeps doing the "what's right for one might not be right for another." thing.

The First Law of Logic is that The Truth cannot contradict The Truth.

He is trying to claim morals aren't required to be logical, which is preposterous and regarding correcting other peoples lack of morals he's claiming you should just leave them alone and let eeryone do their own thing, quoting Jesus "do unto other as you would have them do unto you' out of context... Jesus and the Bible authors obviosly did not just let people do their own thing. Most of Jesus recorded words is him RANTING against corrupt priests and hypocrissy and other SINS. most of the Old Testament is the authors RANTING against corrupt priests, hypocrissy, SINS, and especially human sacrifice, idolatry, and adultery.

So the Bible authors did not compromise with people's morals, and the First Law of Logic requires that all True Moral Codes are Required to never contradict one another.

I laughed at him, because Jesus said, "Till heaven and Earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall in anywise pass away from the Law until all things are fulfilled."

The Law of Moses that he was talking about is not SUBJECT but rather OBJECTIVE and it does not compromise with anyone.

The Truth Can't contradict the Truth (Objective)

What's Right for one person might not be right for another (Subjective)

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1 y

My roommate tried to deny that morals were required to be logical.
Then he tried to deny that Logic controls anything at all in nature. lol.
The entire standard model of all sciences are controlled by Logic. in fact, the root word for "science" is "LOGOS" FROM WHICH WE GET THE English WORD LOGIC.

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1 y

Everthing in Science is Logical and the word science means "Logos" in Greek, and that translates as "The Rational Principle which governs reality".
Thus when atheists claim anything happened "randomly" they are wrong, because by virtual of the fact the Laws of the Universe are governed by LOGIC proves they are not random by are rationally defined by a MIND... which is why the Wave Function is collapsed by a MIND in QM.

[jshm2]

You are both idiots, trying to claim the title of the bigger idiot.

Paradoxes do exist, and truth CAN contradict truth until there is clarity. Which is where science and philosophy can come in to help. But there will always be things which are beyond human knowledge and their truth never mortally known.

As for morals; science and logic can only deal with the physical and quantifiable - not the moral or metaphysical. Any time someone starts mixing the two, you bitch slap the idiot, and tell them they are taking a belief based position.

[Wade12345]

wrong. Show two True Statements that contradict one another, and I will show you are mistaken.

"Model Dependent Reality" in Science is not "The Truth".

The Standard Model does not determine REality. Reality exists whether or not we will ever know how to model it, and no model can ever perfectly represent reality... there's literally an Axiom in physics whic prevents us from knowing everything about the Universe, so it is then not possible to correctly model the Universe.

So you cannot take a physical model and claim it produces two contradictory Truths... all that means is something is wrong with your model.

For example, the fact QM contradicts Relatiivty PROVES one or the other or both of the two theories are completely WRONG. They happen to make useful predictions under certain circumstances, but neither theory is "The Truth". They are "close to the truth" under certain circumstance, but they are not "The Truth" and they do contradict one another, and they are NOT allowed to contradict one another.

That's why Dr. Kaku has rejected both theories and is working on String Theory in an attempt to produce a single theory that can deal with all phenomenon without contradiction. However, he has already pointed out a conflict in String theory and stated on world-wide television, "That means all my work is doo-doo."

[Wade12345]

Lol. Wrong.

Without logic you can't verify that someone has lived up to a moral code or that they have failed a moral code.

God by WISDOM (LOGIC) created the Universe and God by WISDOM defines Good and Evil.

"Wisdom is the principle thing, therefore get Wisdom and with all your getting get Understanding."

Everything in reality is controlled by Logic, including physics, metaphysics, morals, and even spiritual things. The Greeks went so far as to define God and Logic being one and the same thing, which John quoted that argument in John 1,1 in the Gospel that bears his name.

[Wade12345]

All Ten of the Ten Commandments found in exodus are logically derivable from first principles.

In fact, altough it takes a bit of work, all moral commandments are logically derivable from first principles, including the Biblical ban on LGBTQ lifestyles and abortion.

[Wade12345]

Moderator I have a challenge for you, since you like to delete the Words of God Almighty.

Try kneeling on your knees and praying to The True Creator and ask HIM to tell you His name and ask Him what he thinks about LGBTQ lifestyles and Abortion.

You deleted my post and called it "nonsense or irrelevant'' but abortion and LGBTQ lifestyles are the VERY CORE OF THIS DEBATE.

YOU GODLESS MURDERING BITCH STOP DELETING THE WORD OF ALMIGHTY GOD OR YOU ARE GOING TO ANSWER TO HIM IN ETERNITY.

[Wade12345]

I AM GOING TO PRAY THAT EVERY TIME YOU DELETE ONE OF MY POSTS GOD CURSES YOU AND TAKES AWAY TEN PERCENT OF YOUR LIFE'S INCOME.

I HAVE THAT AUTHORITY. I DDID IT TO MARK ZUCKERBERG AND FACEBOOK/META TANKED WITHIN A WEEK.

TRY ME.

[Wade12345]

All Ten of the Ten Commandments are logical constuctions.

True and False are logical conclusions.

"Is" and "Equals" are logical comparisons.

"Not" and "Nor" are logical negation operators.

"Jump" is logicla operator.

"skip "is a logical operator.

"don't" is a commandment and is logical negation "do not".

So all Ten of the Ten commandments are logical.

The moderator deleting my post doesn't change anything. Morality laws in Leviticus which the moderator deleted, those are logically derivable NEGATION operators.

You and the moderator and lgbtqs may hate me for saying that and abortionists hate me for saying that, but they are still wrong and provably wrong.

God commanded humans to be fruitful and multiply WITH THE OPPOSITE BIRTH GENDER and he said no effeminate person shall enter into the Kingdom of God in both the Old and New Testaments, and you can prove that. He created us male and female and therefore rebellign against your birth gender's nature is a sin and rebellion against what God made you to be.

[Wade12345]

The funny thing is the moderator's probably consider themselves "christians" allegedly.

let's quote a bible author then.

"greater love has no man (or woman) than this, that he (or she) lay down their life for their friend."

When women put their alleged 'rights" above love for the unborn child, they are commiting murder.

IF a woman had real love, she would sacrifice her own life for the life of her unborn child.

About a year or so ago, a woman was dying but pregnant and arranged to be kept on life support until the baby was carried to term. The doctors successfully kept her body alive and saved the baby alive... THAT is real love.

Abortion is hatred and murder and good old fashioned laziness and selfishness.

[Siri137]

"The Greeks went so far as to define God and Logic being one and the same thing, which John quoted that argument in John 1,1 in the Gospel that bears his name." - Wade

God and the LOGOS (i. e. Word), not logic! In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
You clearly have NO idea what you're talking about. You understand neither logic nor science, and your understanding of theology is hopelessly flawed as well.

[exitseven]

Truth is like a dead skunk in the middle of the street. You can walk away from it, but it still stinks.

[Wade12345]

This computer would not work without the First Law of Logic. So the First statement in the poll is absolutely true.

There is no circumstance in ANY conceivable reality where "True = False" would be an acceptable statement.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[Siri137]

Your "First Law" is tautological. It's like claiming that "reality is defined by being real" (apparently Ayn Rand made this very specific, and silly, mistake). It's self-referential, it provides us with no new, useful information, and it's just basically gibberish.

[Wade12345]

I didn't say that dummy.

That is real science and philosophy. It's quoted and taught in University.

Dummy.

There is no conceivable scenario where "true = False" is a real construction.

If you think there is, you're a moron.

This computer would not work if True = False were allowable and "real".

[Wade12345]

Do you claim to believe in God?

In the Bible it says there is to be ONE LAW OF GOD for everyone: Rich, Poor, Jew, stranger, pilgrim, widow, and orphan... ONE Law and EVERYONE is required to obey the same ONE LAW. You also are not allowed to have a different standard of measurement than the Law of Moses and you are not even allowed to make an Altar to worship God at, not even the True God, except the one used at the Tabernacle of Moses or the Temple of Solomon. You are not allowed to use a different standard of currency than God gave and you are not allowed to charge INTEREST on a Loan either.

Almost everything you people think you know is wrong and forbidden by the real God... and again, there is ONE LAW which applies to everyone no matter what they say otherwise and no matter how they claim to "feel" about it.

"There are not supposed to be "Jurisdictions' with differentn definitions of murder and rape and other crimes. there is supposed to be ONE LAW in the United States too. There are not supposed to be 50 contradictor definitions of murder and rape. etc.

One Law applies to EVERYONE according to God and whether or not they like it.

[Siri137]

You wrote, and I quote:
"The First Law of Logic is that The Truth cannot contradict The Truth."
That's gibberish, it makes no sense, if only because you haven't even given us any idea of what it is that you actually mean when you use the term "truth". What is truth? Define it, flesh it out, provide an example that you can actually justify (and no, you can't say something like, "Oh, it's in the Bible, God said so").
Also what you've effectively done here is to say, "A cannot not be A". Well, duh. Obviously. Do you even understand basic logic?

[Wade12345]

Obviously you do not understand basic logic.

Here is the dictionary defintion of Truth, and you will notice it too is circular.

truth
[ trooth ]SHOW IPA

See synonyms for truth on Thesaurus. com
🍎 Elementary Level
noun, plural truths [troothz, trooths].
the true or actual state of a matter:
He tried to find out the truth.
conformity with fact or reality; verity:
the truth of a statement.
a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like:
mathematical truths.
the state or character of being true.
actuality or actual existence.
an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.

Therefore it is not possible for for a falsehood to be true.

you PEOPLE need to learn some basic language arts skils. no damned wonder people on this blog don't understand basic formal arguments.

WHAT THE HELL DO THEY TEACH YOU IN SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITY? WORSE, THIS IS PRE-SCHOOL LEVEL LANGUAGE ARTS AND CRITICAL THINKING.

YOU CANNOT EVEN ADD "1+1 = 2" IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT TRUTH CAN'T CONTRADICT TRUTH.

[Wade12345]

DUMMY. REALITY IS IN FACT DEFINED BY BEING REAL.
THAT IS A FACT.

SOME WORDS HAVE NO FURTHER MEANING THAN THE FACT OF REALITY BEING REAL.

DEFINE "IS IDIOT.

"iS" IS THE STATE OF BEING REAL.

YOU NEED TO GET AN EDUCATION FOR GOD'S SAKE. YOU LEARNED NOTHING IN SCHOOL OR UNIVERSITY.

[Wade12345]

A = A IS TRUE.

I DID NOT SAY A CANNOT BE A. YOU ARE A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU.

A CANNOT BE B.

EVEN IF A AND B ARE VARIABLES WITH THE SAME VALUE, A IS NOT B.

THIS IS CALLED INCOMPLETENESS THEOREM. THE VARIABLE A MAY HAVE THE SAME VALUE AS THE VARIABLE B, BUT THE STATEMENT "A = B" IS ALWASY FALSE, IN SPITE OF THE CRAP THEY SOMETIMES DO IN ALGEBRA.

ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC PAPERS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ON THE FALLACIOUS APPLICATION OF VARIABLE NAMES VS VARIABLE VALUES IN ALGEBRA.

IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PROGRAM A COMPUTER, THE VARIABLE A IS NOT THE SAME AS THE VARIABLE B EVEN IF THEY HAVE THE SAME VALUE.

[Wade12345]

I'M GOING TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU VERY EASILY ABOUT FALSE TOO.

WHAT IS FALSE?

FALSE IS ANYTHING THAT IS NOT TRUE. IT IS THE NEGATION OF TRUTH.

FALSE IS ANYTHING THAT IS NOT REAL.

THEREFORE THE TRUTH CAN NEVER BE FALSE. THE TRUTH CAN ONLY BE TRUE.

[Wade12345]

Forgive all-caps. I'm going to try to calm down here. I am pissed off as much at whoever supposedly educated you people as I am at you. Evidently they dont teach the basic meaning of basic words in school and university anymore.

Define "IS"... in mathematics "IS" means "Equals". In other situations, "IS" means "the state of being or existing"

Define "False". That which is not True.

"No Lie is of the Truth."

That is the corollary to my statement "The Truth cannot contradict The Truth."

The only reason falsehoods exist at all is because human beings are FREE MORAL AGENTS and can willfully choose to deceive themselves and one another. We ar enot entirely phsyical beings. We are in fact metaphysical, free moral agent beings, and as such we have the "god-like" power of creating our own FALSEHOODS... this is due to the FALL in the Garden where Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. "Wehther this literally happened or whether its an allegeory, I dont know, but the fact is human beings WILLFULLY CHOOSE TO CREATE LIES AND THEY WILLFULLY CHOOSE TO BELIEVE OTHER PEOPLE'S LIES AND THEY WILLFULLY CHOOSE TO DO ANY NUMBER OF OTHER EVILS AND FALSEHOODS"

The Bible says God created everything "Very Good", but human beings must be governed becasue we willfully choose to do evil

[Wade12345]

The entire reason God inspired the Bible to be written is because human beings are EVIL and need to be rebuked, governed, and "saved".

The Truth can't contradict The Truth.

We use words all the time which are difficult to define without circular reasoning and many of them are basic parts of speech.

Truth
False
Is
Equal
"That" lol Define "That"
Potential... lol define that wordi in the broadest sense.

"That has potential."

Define Has...

[Wade12345]

lets give you a tidbit of information.

Richard Dawkins tried to claim you could collide to photons and produce anti-matter because of the fact annihilation of matter and antimatter produced photons.

That is wrong, entropy does nto allow that.

Scientists have since learned how to create ordinary matter by collding two photons, but it costs way more energy than its worth.

You cannot create anti-matter that way, because matter and anti-matter are "Chiral" which means the Universe is "right-handed and prefers MATTER. That is the only explanation given for why the Universe contains almost no anti-matter but almost all MATTER. In the Standard Model, anti-matter *should* be as common as matter, but in REALITY it is not.

The MODEL IS WRONG AND REALITY IS CORRECT.

A MODEL =/= REALITY

A MODEL IS A CLOSE APPROXIMATION OF THE TRUTH, BUT IS NEVER 100% TRUE.

SO YOU CANNOT USE A MODEL TO RULE OUT GOD. THAT WOULD BE PREPOSTEROUS TO START WITH SOMETHING YOU KNOW CAN NEVER BE 100% TRUE AND THEN TRY TO USE THAT TO REDEFINE "THE TRUTH".

THATS PREPOSTEROUS.

[strateguy632]

can't

[QuietRunner]

Does this mean there are alternative facts?