Is it possible to hate something, or someone, you don't even believe is real (ex. God)?

[Siri137]

I guess Amber Heard doesn't want to seem obnoxious.

I ask this question precisely because whenever I come across a preachy atheist, he (it's almost always a "he", like 98% of the time) can almost never remain calm and clear-headed enough to actually make a reasonable case for why no one should believe in God anymore, because their anger gets the better of them; they're overwhelmed by it. It's almost as though they know, at least on a subconscious level, that God really does exist, and that fact makes them angry because it means that their actions will have real, long-term consequences.

Yes.

No.

Maybe. Not sure.

[zeitgeist057]

Absolutely. As someone who used to believe in God and no longer does, I went through a period of anger. It was not as you describe, anger at "something you know is real", it was the exact opposite of that: anger at something I knew was not real, and the anger was about how stupid I felt for believing such a ridiculous lie for so long. Anger at others who would not see the truth and stayed in the ignorance where I once had been. My anger at them and the concept of God, was really anger at myself for being so stupid for so long.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/r6rqCy83EcA

When arguing with others, it's more of an exasperation because of the futility of knowing the place they are in and how there really is no way to just say something logical that will break them out of the mental prison they are in. Like trying to convince someone to leave a bomb shelter who won't because they are convinced there was a nuclear holocaust, even though there wasn't, and no matter what you say or do, they come back to their holocaust fantasy and incorporate it into why they won't even look outside. Your statement that you think they actually believe in God and that's what they are angry about is a great example of how everything gets twisted to incorporate the paradigm, and they cannot see things for how they are. "Oh, you're mad because deep down you know God is real" = "Oh, you think there wasn't a nuclear holocaust because the radiation cooked your brain."

[Siri137]

Yes, I know what it's like to become exasperated with someone who just cannot, or stubbornly refuses, to understand. However, we all have beliefs that others think are insane, but we just have to arrive at the truth, however long that may take, in our own good time.

[zeitgeist057]

100% about everyone having their own beliefs. We all have our own "truth" based on unique experiences, perspective, and ways of processing/interpreting that input. It's all good, everyone has their own journey, and not all the destinations/goals are the same. The main hang up of theists is the same as atheists: an insistence on the idea of an "objective" truth. Failing to recognize the irony of a subjective being claiming to have a monopoly on objectivity/truth. While not true of everyone, it happens a lot :D

[jshm2]

There are no such things as atheists. They are just theists living in denial, or entitled narcs, who think all should believe what they do, on their merits alone.

Any time someone claims to be "atheist" and starts preaching their opinions (which is all they have), you need only look them in the eye and ask them to state which McDonalds happy meal they got their doctorate in theology from.

They are no better than flat earthers and anti vaxxers. They aren't interested in facts or stats, just want an audience to bitch their ignorance to.

[Siri137]

The McDonalds Happy Meal Theology Doctorate. That sounds like an idea that would actually sell :D

[slatyb]

Ridiculous. I and all my friends are atheists. We're all happy and prosperous. by the way do you know that it is entirely possible to get a degree in theology without believing in God? There is no theory of theology. Science works. Religion is useless.

[XHopelessRomanticX]

I think that every person has some inkling that there truly is a God, whether they want to admit it or not. I think that people hate the idea of being held accountable to a higher being, so they rebel against that higher being. They think that because suffering exists in the world, God must be a mean and cruel God. People become enraged at God if they think God should have protected them in the way that they think He should have, if He didn't answer their prayers in the time frame that they specified, or if they no longer feel His presence. So they display disdain for God.

Because God is unseen, they turn to science, which can be observed, and say God is unnecessary. Yet science without religion is lame, just as religion without science is blind. They call the Bible a book of "fairy tales" despite the historical accuracy of the Bible being proven over and over and over again.

Is it possible to hate something, or someone, you don't believe is real? After all, God doesn't believe in atheists.

[Siri137]

100% true! They hate the idea of being held accountable. Exactly, that's the impression I always got as well.

[Exterminatore]

@Hopless

This is a solid gold answer, well said and I agree fully.

[Exterminatore]

@siri

Even the Bible itself supports your view here. It further more asses that people love their sin and don’t even want to be told their sins are wrong.

[slatyb]

Do you even know any atheists? It's quite arrogant to claim to know what others think. I live in a city that is largely secular. None of my friends believe in God and we don't have an inkling that there truly is a God. Not everyone thinks like you.

[HCanre]

I think that every person has some income that there is no God. They're just looking for someone to take care of them. They hate the idea of being responsible for their own actions.

[AMS700CX4u2]

@Exterminatore That is how John the Baptist lost his head.

[najekim]

"Because God is unseen, they turn to science, which can be observed, and say God is unnecessary. Yet science without religion is lame, just as religion without science is blind. They call the Bible a book of "fairy tales" despite the historical accuracy of the Bible being proven over and over and over again."

Most fiction has had historical facts written in to make the story more relatable to the reader. In this case, historical fact was embellished and exaggerated with religious dogma to serve the writer's intend.

[AMS700CX4u2]

Creation through the big bang. With evolution doing the rest, does not diminish the ability of God. Man does not seem to be able to create matter from energy without it collapsing in a microsecond.

[Massageman]

right on.

[supercutebutt]

God is the word people use when they have no satisfying explanation. And it's annoying because it's lazy. :)

[Siri137]

So you believe that everything just magically popped into existence for no reason from nothing then. :)

[supercutebutt]

So you believe that an invisible man just magically popped into existence for no reason from nothing then? :)

[Siri137]

A strawman? Nope. I don't believe in the patently silly 'invisible Sky-Daddy in the clouds'. You atheists need to understand that using straw in your arguments will not help you to convince anyone of anything.
Do you know anything at all about either philosophy or theology? Why am I even asking this, of course you don't, and it shows.
God is the original, necessary 'ground of being', as Teilhard deChardin put it. Hans Kung said the same. That is, without God to sustain reality in existence in the manner a foundation keeps a house in place, our reality simply wouldn't be. He is the reason why there is something rather than nothing.
There. Simple :)

[supercutebutt]

Weak. You quote a dude like he had answers. It just makes you feel comfy and safe, so you accept it as fact. It isn't. Stop being such a snowflake that believes in magic because you are terrified of death. It's time to grow up. :)

[najekim]

Everything that exists today, and in the past, was the result of nature. Not a man-made construct that is meant of control people's lives by a few "clergy."

[I_Can_Help]

"That is, without God to sustain reality in existence in the manner a foundation keeps a house in place, our reality simply wouldn't be. He is the reason why there is something rather than nothing.
There. Simple " - @siri137

You DO believe in a magic man god. So why are you accusing people of strawman arguments?

[slatyb]

Simple. And complete nonsense. Necessary "ground of being" ? What does that even mean?

[AMS700CX4u2]

If you become that enraged over just a casual discussion of the possibility of the existence of God. Then it means you are pissed off at something. Most atheist/agnostics are irritated by one question. If God is so powerful , then why does he allow so much (turmoil/Evil/Bad) to occur in the world. Most people who believe, have read or at least heard creation stories which portray a powerful spirit who has a multitude of spirit kids who are stuck as far as their development is concerned. As a spirit one can't experience Love Hate, Joy, or Misery or I guess anything emotional. They have to attain a physical body to learn those things. So we get sent to Summer Camp.(Planet Earth) with a couple of suggestions from Dad (It would be better if you did not Kill) ( It would be best if you did not interfere with your friend's Loves) While we are away at camp we have to make decisions and suffer the consequences of our decisions. We experience Love, Hate, Joy, and Misery. We can write home about it to our Spirit Dad. but he is not going to intervene. When our week at camp is over we go back home,, wiser from our experience. This much is common to all religions and of course a final judgement. Basically, Dad looking over your merit badges and Not-So Much certificates. Some religions believe in an ongoing process. You get to go to camp again (Reincarnation). Some religions believe that you only get one trip to camp and that a high camp counselor will cover for your failures. Others believe that Dad is not that harsh, that he remembers his days at camp and his understanding is based on empiricism. Bottom line? No one gets angry and hostile at something that does not exist in their opinion. They may not like it or understand it. Remember, Some of the Bible is myth passed on by mouth by shepherds gazing up at the stars and wondering how it all got here. Certainly no reason to become hostile at another because his or her concepts are different. Ok , II will shut up!

[Siri137]

Enraged? Me? No, THEY are the ones who become enraged. Didn't you actually read the text under the question? I explain that.
As for your question about why God allows evil if He is omnipotent, the simple answer to this is that He isn't also omnibenevolent. In other words, he just doesn't give a stuff about our personal issues, He has other things to concern Himself. Does the microbiologist "care" about the microbes he or she is viewing through the microscope? Do you care about ants when you come across them in your garden?

[AMS700CX4u2]

The microbiologist does care about the bugs under the scope if he has stock in the pharmaceutical company he is culturing them for. As for the ants, they can be beneficial or problematic.

[Siri137]

You know what I mean.

[AMS700CX4u2]

Yes I do , I have a brother who vacillates between Yes there is and No there is not. Odd that the whole concept of religion developed when hunter gatherers began to become agrarian. This meant that larger numbers had to live in closer proximity. Enter the "thou shalt nots" One could say that the first four comandments were threats if you didn't heed the warnings of the remaining commandments. .

[Siri137]

"Odd that the whole concept of religion developed when hunter gatherers began to become agrarian."

The genetic fallacy - rejecting an idea purely upon the basis of how the idea in question came about.

[AMS700CX4u2]

Siri137, Don't misunderstand me. My faith was strengthened when I expired on the op table twice but woke up in a hospital bed. Our Creator/Creatrix wants us to question everything. C S Lewis started out to prove that God didn't exist only to believe at the end of his quest.

[MementoMori777]

When they get angry and aggressive it points out to more of a denial than a perspective and/or point of view because if they just simply didn't believe they would just state their point of view but aggression sounds like they deny and want to continue to deny it so when they hear it, they get mad, it's the only way it makes sense to me on why they get so aggressive.

[slatyb]

Perhaps they have had a bad experience with religious education or religious parents.

[MementoMori777]

Yea but so many? I run into one or two non aggressive atheists from like 10, like a 1 in 10 ratio, I just don't understand

[slatyb]

How does the topic even come up? I don't go around saying "Have you heard the good news? There's no God,."

[MementoMori777]

Naturally, for example, someone asks why are people always killing each other or whatnot, spiritually it's because there's a spiritual warfare that run on influence which influence people to do bad or good things and creates results, stuff like that, I don't aggressively ever push anything on anyone and they get aggressive with me anyways just for mentioning it when in my believes, spreading the word is our purpose, it would completely hypocritical to just get mad on someone for speaking about their believes when everyone does the same, they spread their opinions that go completely against my believes and I don't get aggressive but for some reason they get aggressive with me.

[Siri137]

Exactly! Why become emotional about something like this? It doesn't make sense unless they're in a state of deep denial.

[MementoMori777]

I don't know but what I do know is that I'm spreading the word properly if they hate me for it

John 15:18-19

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Matthew 5:10-12

“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

[slatyb]

So you aggressively peddle your religion and are surprised when people push back?

[MementoMori777]

We have a different definition of pushing, I recommend you read up the definition, I'm not forcing anything on anyone

[slatyb]

But they are when they disagree with you?

[MementoMori777]

No but instead if leaving it with disagreement they leave it with anger and hatred

[MementoMori777]

Of**

[blissinanarchy1]

You can hate the idea and ideology. I’m not an atheist, but I’ll put myself in the shoes of one. If I were to hate God, I’d be acknowledging him.

If I were to hate the idea and ideology of Him, I’d basically hate any relevant religious belief and ideals. I’d hate that His followers believe in what I’d consider nonsense, the rules, the regulations, and basically anything they support.

Again, if I were to hate God, I’d be acknowledging his existence like “Why did you let this happen?”

If I didn’t believe in Him, my hate would be more so “If he existed, this wouldn’t happen so your beliefs are foolish.”

[OfDeath]

One can hate the concept whether it is real or not. In the case of atheists and god, the enmity stems from having to constantly defend common sense against superstition. There is also still a social bias against those not engaged with organised superstition. The perpetual challenge becomes vexing.

If you would like a sound case for why one should relieve themselves of the shackles of religion and purge the mind of belief in gods, I recommend the work of people such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens.

[Siri137]

And I recommend the work of David Bentley Hart, Edward Feser and William Lane Craig, who generally present convincing cases for the reality of God, and who usually demolish the arguments of such amateur theologians as Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens.

[OfDeath]

If that is your response, you obviously suffer from serious denial. I've heard their arguments and all of them are logically fallacious and don't hold a candle to the likes of Dawkins and Harris.

[OfDeath]

And by the way, Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens are not theologians. They've read more than one book.

[Siri137]

Yes, I know they're not (or were not, in the case of Hitchens) theologians, but they like to pretend they actually know what they're talking about. They clearly don't, they're clearly amateurs. I mean, what kind of theologian asks questions like, "If God created everything, then what created God?" Holy crap on a cracker! (facepalm). These people don't even understand basic philosophical and theological concepts, like necessity and contingency.

[OfDeath]

You seem to miss the point that the fact these concepts haven't been proven to be the truth, deems them as nothing more than fantasy. Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about. Harris and the like raise relevent points and questions which have not been given satisfactory answers by theologians such as those you have mentioned. They have also given the real natural explanations for many of the explanatory attemps of religion where magic has been passed off as an answer to what are actually scientific questions. Pertinently, they've shown actually reliable evidence to support their claims.

Another thing to realise is the question of God's creator is valid even if you don't want to admit it. If one supposes there is a creator of the universe, one may also suppose the creator was also created. But we can do even better than that. Whichever way you want to claim god came into existence or whether it always existed, obviates it from having to exist anyway.

[Grond21]

The problem you are encountering is fundamentalism. People often make a mistake of thinking only certain religions can be fundamentalist, but this is in error. Everyone can be fundamentalist, athiest included. The defining characteristic is how they hold to their position. Do they defend this position from a place of reason or a place of emotional investment such that any contrary perspective, arguments, or evidence are flatly denied.

You can have a set of opinions or beliefs that are completely accurate, and yet hold to them in a fundamentalist and illogical way.

[Pleasuredom]

If you don’t believe that, such and such exists, then how can you get mad at it on your own twisted way you’re getting mad at nothing then. I do believe in a higher power I do not believe in religion that’s for sure. I don’t believe with any human can tell me about the nature of “god” for they really have no way of comprehending. But I do believe that religion when used correctly as an individual and I just blindly following whatever the religious sect leader Cj can be very beneficial tool to the individual. It’s always nice to have something to believe in.

[slatyb]

Believers often claim that "atheists hate God" or "atheists just don't want to obey God" but they are just projecting their own fantasies onto others. Atheists don't hate God any more than Christians hate leprechauns. It's not possible to hate something that one doesn't believe is real. Nor are atheists rebelling against God, because there's from their perspective, there is nothing to rebel against.

[Siri137]

Good! Glad to hear that. :)

[slatyb]

Other people are welcome to believe whatever makes them happy. I'm not happy when they attempt to force their beliefs onto others. When they claim in a public forum that there is a logical argument for God, I will present the counter-argument. I'm not trying to persuade the author, but I'm letting other readers now that not everyone agrees.

[slatyb]

If atheists are rebelling against anything, it's the people telling them what God wants them to do. They aren't rebelling against God, because even if there is a God, no one knows what God wants. The Bible and all other so-called holy books were written by people.

[Exterminatore]

If you hate God it means you hate what he represents and the essence of his character. I don’t believe in Allah but I hate him. The answer is yes. Also I strongly think to say one hates God, yet doesn’t believe in him is just a subconscious way to further reject what he represents.

[goaded]

No, but it's really easy to get angry at people who demand you accept God exists, and won't accept a simple statement that you do not believe God exists, which is claiming people don't know their own minds.

As to "preachy atheist", did he say anything before you told him you believe in God? Maybe even told him he should?

[Siri137]

Out of curiosity, can you tell me when was the last time that anyone "demanded" that you accept God's existence? Ever?
And yes, most atheists that I've encountered were as preachy as vegans! One of them even said, without any prompting from me, "Oh, I'm an atheist", and I was left wondering what the hell I'd actually said to bring that on.

[goaded]

@jshm2's opinion comes pretty close, but perhaps "demand" was a poor choice of words.

[goaded]

By the way, I'm not disrespecting religious people, especially when they do things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaXdFHLnL0o

[Siri137]

There should be no such thing as "medical debt". That's an obscenity.

[najekim]

Televangelists demand belief all the time. Along with sending in your money.

[goaded]

But America has the best health care system in the world! Somebody on here told me that recently.

[Googlemyahoo]

I find unintelligent people accuse those who disagree with them of being hateful. For example, transphobe, homophobe, arachnophobia…

It isn’t hate its more sympathy for being confused & easily manipulated

Secondly ask a religious person to substantiate anything to prove themselves & they cannot. They merely say look around thats proof ! Or its in the bible ! That is no more proof then me quoting Harry Potter to say magic exists.

[Siri137]

I've probably explained this elsewhere, but the demand for proof is an unreasonable one, if by "proof" you take that word to mean what the mathematicians mean by it when they use it. The demand for evidence (i. e. a physical sign of God's presence) is in my view also unreasonable, even if possible, because you're taking it upon yourself to demand that God comply with your wishes. Now there may be such evidence, and no one is aware of it, but even so, the question of God's existence isn't a scientific one; it's a philosophical one, like the belief in an objective reality that scientists simply assume is "out there". Where's the proof that what we're experiencing now is objectively real, and we're not all just 'brains-in-vats'?

[Googlemyahoo]

Yea thanks but I basically explained that in my final sentence. You proving God exists is like me saying magic does because its in Harry Potter. Does Santa exist because you believe it? Or the Easter bunny.

No they do not.

It exists in your head and that is all.

[Siri137]

It isn't like that at all. That much is (to me at least) really obvious.

[slatyb]

So I should accept that God exists because you say so? That's now how I determine what is true.

[Siri137]

@slatyb You shouldn't accept anything just because someone says so.

[slatyb]

So on what basis should I accept that God exists? There is no supporting evidence.

[Kaamraj]

Maybe the thing isn't real or it's made up or figment of propaganda but people's actions make it real. My father nearly died in a genocide, the reasons for that were made up by the people doing the killing were surely real.

[strateguy632]

my opinion impossible like i only have white curtains but say i hate my blue curtains. like you concluded their emotion exhibited they struggle due to still believing god and failing to convince self.

[BeMuse]

Sentient World Simulation and the Quantum Internet will make you hate all sorts of things that aren't real if people don't wake up in time... You people need to stop sleeping.

[BrookeS]

You can't hate something or someone that doesn't exists

[Massageman]

Of course it's POSSIBLE for them to hate just about ANYthing. Whether their assumptions and assertions turn out to be right or wrong will remain to be seen.

[CB-Raido-Time]

It is happening because you know deep down inside God does exist and you had better listen to that voice inside.

[slatyb]

I have never felt that way. I was told God exists but by the time I was 8 I was thinking "I don't know about that." By the time I was about 11 I was thinking "None of it makes any sense".

[CB-Raido-Time]

@slatyb Take a look around you and compare everything that is going on right now and just about everything today is in the reverse of what things were only 20 years ago. Normal isn't normal good is bad it's all upside down and everything was Prophesied over 2000 years ago when nothing available today was available during that time they didn't even have a name for the things Prophesied we see today such as a gun which is the Sword in the Bible.

And that alone should be enough to convince you that the Bible is the absolute Truth and God is absolutely real. If it's in the Holy Bible it will happen you can bank on that understand it or not.

[slatyb]

There's nothing special about biblical mythology. You can take any large body of narrative text and find vague connections to present day events. I could do the same with the Harry Potter saga or James Joyce "Ulysses".

[Siri137]

Actually, no one knows that. "Deep down inside"? What does that even mean? It's nonsensical.

[slatyb]

The believers can't imagine that other people don't think like they do. In my experience the average person is incapable of imagining the thought processes of the highly intelligent.

[OddBeMe]

Emotions are always complex. I’d say you hate religious people in general, or the community. Like me, I hate their hypocrisy.

[Siri137]

I don't hate religious people. Where did you get that idea from?

[OddBeMe]

You “hate” god who doesn’t exist. It’s an obvious assumption religious people fcked you over somehow.

[OddBeMe]

And amber heard ain’t a good person to quote.

[Siri137]

No. Wrong. I asked this question because many atheists seem to be bitter and angry with God, even though they say they don't believe in Him/Her/It.

[Siri137]

You obviously didn't read the text beneath the picture. I explain what I mean there.

[OddBeMe]

No I did and replied my take. Maybe I’m wrong.

I don’t believe god exists. So I don’t blame him or hate him. I hate the mindless devotion to the biblical “god” who says ok to rape and slavery but praise me! Praise me!

[admles]

I’m an atheist, born and raised.

I do not believe in any god, thus I can’t hate them. Can’t hate something you don’t believe in.

[Anonymous]

Hate is so unnecessary

Especially towards your creator

[monghjay2]

GOD Christ is real he is above the dome

watch the rocket hit the dome

https://www.youtube.com/embed/UJXhzTzJcsA

[Twalli]

Very few atheists I know have tried to "convert" people to atheism.

[slatyb]

They come to my door every Saturday telling me to not go to church on Sunday.

[Anonymous]

Yes. But just because you don't believe in God doesn't make you hateful.

[LiamJHayden]

A lot of atheists sure seem to do so.

[Spade_01]

Possible? Yes. Logical? No.

[Andres77]

seems like a conundrum, doesn't it?

[Anonymous]

Siri aaaah