Is there a God or is it a hoax to control the masses?

[DreamLife7]

A hoax

He's real!

Unsure

[nightdrot]

Voted "He's real."

As G. K. Chesterton wrote, “It is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything.”

The paradox is that the atheist is as extreme in his way as is the religious fanatic. Because the atheist sees evil in the world, he jumps to the conclusion that there must therefore be no God.

This presents two problems. First, if there is nothing but the impersonal forces of nature and the laws of physics, then there is no free will. Every thought, every action is predetermined by the intermix of molecular and physical reactions. Nothing can be other than what it is.

The problem then becomes that your belief that God does not exist is then also a simple biochemical molecular reaction. You came to the only conclusion that your physiological structure predetermined you would.

However, if that is true, then your conclusion is no more valid than the opposite conclusion. It was simply the luck of the draw of your brain's electro-chemical reactions and you end up in an intellectual hall of mirrors. Suffice to say, the implications of that in a political context are enormous - see also Marxism, Fascism, National Socialism.

In that connection, atheism tends to premised on a rejection of the idea of God in the absence of proof of His benevolence. This leaves the atheist effectively rejecting only one vision of God - namely the Judeo-Christian version. In truth, there are other conceptions of God. (For example, the ancient Greeks believed that the gods were arbitrary and capricious.)

The second point is that if everything in the universe must have a beginning, then logically something must stand outside the universe to start the universe itself. Chesterton's point stands and is a reflection of Aquinas' view of God as the first cause of all things.

The funny part is that the atheist argues that the universe is more complex than religion. Yet their own explanation is, itself, an oversimplification. Order does not spontaneously come from chaos without something outside itself to impose order. Similarly, if all things existing must start, then something must exist outside of it to start it.

Yet the atheist's problem remains. That the order of existence came from chaos absent something to give it order. It just happened - with the caveat that we don't know how - but it happened within existence because existence is all there is.

That is a presumption - and a problem - for atheism.

[Curmudgeon]

Bingo. To paraphrase, when they stop believing in (the traditional Judeo-Christian) God, the real danger is not that they will believe in nothing else, but that instead they will believe in *anything* else..."

[nightdrot]

@Curmudgeon Absolutely correct - and there is ample historical proof of that, particularly in the 20th century.

[slatyb]

Hitler was supported by Christians, not atheists.

[nightdrot]

@slatyb He was also opposed by Christians. The point is that National Socialism, Fascism and Communism are often referred to as "secular religions" because they, in effect, "fill the void."

When established institutions - including religious institutions - fell into disrepute or disrepair, these ideologies replaced them. "When men don't believe in God they don't believe in nothing. They believe in anything."

[slatyb]

There is a lot of nonsense in the world. The atheists I know reject all of it -- religuon, alternative medicine, astrology, etc.

[Curmudgeon]

@slatyb And you all too often replace it with ideology, and that can be horrid, as the 20th century proved.

[nightdrot]

@Curmudgeon Absolutely right. Indeed, not for nothing were the Marxist governments determinedly atheist. The "opiate of the masses" of the masses was "the dictatorship of the proletariat" and his historical dialect of class war.

@slatyb is assuming that a mere skepticism is an adequate substitute for a philosophic context. Rather, it merely conduces to nihilism and in due course fanatical ideologies like Marxism, Fascism and National Socialism.

Indeed, in due course, as the Chesterton quote points out, they are left with nothing as the explanation to create everything.

[slatyb]

@Curmudgeon that's just you projecting your need for dogma onto others. Do you actually know anyone who is non-religious?

[Curmudgeon]

I will admit I am unsure. And often I think that I hate Him.

However, the most dogmatic anti-God people have a track record of creating ideologies which strive to control the masses, a totalitarian control far more than and far beyond what the religious people ever contemplated. Think about that.

[goaded]

Kings supposedly had a God-given right to rule over all the peasants, the Church would back them up.

[RoosterBreast]

@goaded that's right. And the pope wears a skirt because he is a biologic woman. Do priests actually believe in what they preach when they rape children?

[purplepoppy]

I don't think it's a hoax more a discredited theory people won't let guy go of.

[RoosterBreast]

Which god are you speaking of? You know that the spirit of Lord Orgasmos bean2k21 is still with you.

[WhitneySnow]

I believe in God but faith is a very personal thing

[MementoMori777]

Oh he's real, if you open your life to Jesus and accept the holy spirit you will feel the difference, God has helped me through a lot, there was too many coincidences for them to be coincidences when I prayed for help and it's not really explainable with words, you'd have to have your own experiences to know what I mean

[genericname85]

in other words, he's real, if you just delude yourself hard enough to the point where your cognitive bias is so strong that you associate everything with god by default.

[MementoMori777]

If you don't wanna do it then don't, I really don't understand why you are here, to spread you hatred, you are here just to argue, I don't care what you gotta say, you are just hovering here over people's opinions talk about your worthless opinion I assume, I don't care what you have to say, I don't expect you to understand, I wasn't talking to You, I was answering the question, everything physical revolves around spirituality, if you want to live blind then by all means do It, find something better to do, my mind isn't going to change, I don't see the point of you opening your Yep, I don't care about the thoughts that run through that pink mush in your head, how bout you go look for someone that does

[genericname85]

I'm not spreading any hatred. You're reflecting your hatred on me.

[MementoMori777]

I just don't like you, it's not reflecting, I'm telling you

[genericname85]

"you just don't like me". so it's you who hate by your own admission. good job. actually realizing a problem is the first step to fixing a problem.

[MementoMori777]

I don't consider it a problem, so don't expect any fixing, I don't like you and it will remain that way, perhaps it's a problem to you tho, personally I can live my whole life this way.

[genericname85]

well you are free to not like me but don't blame me on hate spreading when it's you who feels the hate.

[MementoMori777]

I never said you were hating on me but you are clearly angry at God for something if you felt the need to spread your opinion on my separate opinion, something urged you and pushed you to open your yap or you clearly would've just went right over it

[genericname85]

you said i was spreading hate. while the only one who had hatefull feelings by admission is you yourself. so the only one of th 2 of us who even felt hate is you. and now it is again you who gets aggressive in your language not me. point and case.

[MementoMori777]

So what exactly pushed you and motivated you to speak in the first place cause I clearly didn't ask you for it, seems like you opinion towards my beliefs came from a place of hate or you would've ignored my opinion like the respect of the non believers but something triggered your action and if it's not hate, it's ego

[genericname85]

no my ideas didn't come from a place of hatred. i just read what you said and made a logical conclusion about what you said. no hate was ever involved in that process from my side. it seems you didn't like what i said. so you assumed i must have been inspired by hate, which is as i said your reflection of your own hate onto me. and i'm really sorry that you are in this argumentative corner now. but that's all on you buddy.

typically when people do this they have 2 ways. realize they argued themself into a corner so they rethink what they said and correct themself or they keep pushing themself into that corner even harder. like a flight or fight mechanism. i'm talking from a place of compassion and logic. not from a place of hate. i guess you want me to speak from a place of hate, cause then you feel better about dismissing what i say.

[MementoMori777]

Okay so ego 😂

[genericname85]

you can label your dislike of what i'm saying whatever you like :) hateful. ego. whatever. it's still the reflection of what you feel, not of what i am.

[MementoMori777]

You seem egotistical, it's a post that was posted 13 days ago, a opinion said 13 days ago and you are still going back and forth on It, that's ego, denial is a bliss tho

[genericname85]

first i seem egotistical. now i seem hatefull. what negative label are you gonna choose next? do you not see that the hate and aggressiveness comes from you?

[genericname85]

are you just trying to throw all sorts of shit at me to see if something sticks?

[genericname85]

are you gonna keep driving yourself into that corner harder and harder?

[MementoMori777]

I stand up to my flaws, unlike some people, I've come clean to all my defaults in our conversation, the one that tries to remain Mr perfect here is you, which shows what I've been saying for the past few replies, ego, you keep trying to go around it by trying to call me out, which shows insecurity, I've proudly mentioned my flaws here, you seem to have problems seeing them on yourself, which is a you problem

[MementoMori777]

There's no corner when there's nothing to hide, you have nothing on me, I mentioned I don't like you already, I don't know what you expect from someone that doesn't like You, you expect love and care? Cause you ain't getting none of that here

[genericname85]

the corner that you are in by your own admission is that you have negative feelings towards me and that you are spreading hate. not me. and now you're trying to throw a different label: "egotistical" at me, which i am also not. and i don't have to "call you out", cause you point blank admitted it. you're stuck in your corner of hatred trying to throw shit at me that unfortunately doesn't stick. i am not trying to be "mister perfect" and even if i was, i don't understand what would be wrong about that. that's just another spin you're trying cause you're loading the term "mr perfect" with your hatred again. stop hating bro.

[genericname85]

and i did answer 13 days later cause i wasn't online in these 13 days. and when i came online i saw the notification. so i answered. so you tried to spin that into me having some sort of unhealthy obsession. so again you trying to spread hatred while accusing me to do that when i don't do that.

[MementoMori777]

I'm gonna hate you all I want, and you are clearly egotistical, I don't know how many times you are gonna have to reread this paragraph you just said to see it but I can see it and I'm sure others can as Well, you don't seem to see that I've admitted to my shit, they stick, just cause you said something doesn't make it true, you are full of ego and your own form of ignorance, I have my own forms but I'm not the one trying to hide it here, what's wrong about trying to be Mr perfect is that you aren't perfect, believing you are or trying to be is feeding into a delusion but I wouldn't expect you to see It, I'm sure you are gonna come up with something else to turn it on me like you've been doing the whole time cause you are afraid to face your own flaws.

[genericname85]

i didn't say anything here to make you hatefull. you decided to be hatefull towards what i sad, cause you hated what i said and thus you decided to hate me. i have not admitted to "my shit", cause i'm simply not doing the things you're accusing me of. it is not my fault that you hated what i said. i still don't hate you or what you said and i never never did. and you are doing exactly what i predicted. trying to add another negatively loaded thing to throw at me in hopes that it would stick. first it was that i'm hatefull, then that i'm egotistical, then you used that negative spin on "mister perfect" and now you've added ignorance. so you confirm by your actions to be in that corner that i said you are. i am not trying to shove you into any corner. i'm just observing what you do and describing as you're doing it.

i certainly do have my flaws but as far as i can see none of my flaws have anything to do with the different sorts of negative words that you're trying out or the current conversation. i will admit if there's a negative thing about me you're saying that is actually accurate. and you're welcome to try and get a gotcha moment here but so far, you're not there.

[MementoMori777]

This is not the first time you've tried to debate on my beliefs but I'm not reading all that tbh, whatever you gotta tell yourself, you have ego you aren't aware of and you are stuck in denial about it or you would feel the need to reply, it's as simple as that really

[genericname85]

i'm not aware that i tried to debate with you before this time. can you explain to me how that fact makes any of your claims true? to remind you here are all the claims again:
1. i'm hatefull
2. i'm egotistical
3. "mister perfect"
4. ignorant
5. i have ego.

so number 5 is the first correct one. i do have ego. i'm not denying to have ego nor did i ever deny that. you just claimed that i deny it without that actually being true. everyone has ego and so do i. ego is the name for that thing we refer to when we say "i". so yes i do have an ego. you're absolutely right. i don't know how this is something bad, cause everyone has it.

[MementoMori777]

You said ego twice which i understand its to make your list seem longer, you seem somewhat offended by my claims cause you keep bringing them up tho

Another paragraph I don't care enough to read but A for effort lol

[genericname85]

no i didn't say ego twice. i listed "having an ego" and "being egotistical" as 2 separate things, cause there's a difference between having an ego and being egotistical. i said i do have an ego and you lied when you said i didn't admit that. i admit to having an ego. i am not egotistical tho.

[genericname85]

you have an ego too. everyone has that as a way to self reference. nothing bad about it.

[MementoMori777]

Deep down I believe you are egotistical, so agree to disagree

[genericname85]

well what you believe deep down and what is true are not the same things. and if you believe what you believe deep down and what is true are the same, then that is where i agree that we do disagree.

[MementoMori777]

Okay lol

[stepyo99]

The concept of God definitely isn't a hoax to control people because stuff like folk religions exist which have no defined leadership or dogma and are instead customs and rituals that have been passed down - often orally - for hundreds or thousands of years.

[genericname85]

that's one aspect of it. it can have a positive effect of giving someone meaning in life or give a foundation for community but i think the fact that it is also a tool to controll the masses makes it worse compared to other options or tools to do that same job.

[OddBeMe]

Logically, unsure is the only real answer. As like so many unnatural beliefs it’s not provable one way or the other.

I can speak about the evidence I’ve read in that every civilization has created gods or a god to make themselves feel better. Yet someone today, which ever you god you believe in is the real one. Could the billion who believe it’s Buddha, or the other billion who believe in 1000 Hindu gods, or the slightly larger group who believe it’s an Abrahamic god.

Shrugs…

[jshm2]

Exactly what "control" do these dimwits think there is, when you have politicians doing far worse for the masses?

Belief in God is an anathema to politicians as they like to control people and resources.

[Anonymous]

In 1688 Emanuel Swedenborg was born. He used psychic powers 2 talk 2 soul guides at or in his 50s. Here is what he talked about that people who've had current near death experience hav said.

1. God
2. Jesus
3. God doesn't send 2 heaven or hell. Ur drawn there.
4. Christians n non-Christians go 2 heaven.
5. Reunions with family
6. Ghosts, now one person who had an NDE asked God if ghosts r real n God said yes.

[slatyb]

There's no evidence for a god active in human affairs, no evidence for an afterlife. It's not something I worry about

[Redstang88]

I can’t rule out the possibility, but I’ve sure never seen anything to make me believe and the whole circular argument thing just seems a little too convenient to me

[strateguy632]

control? to do what? religion does not limit which job nor which college degree. just a blind alternative like is 3+1=4? or 3.

[strateguy632]

poll results atheism lost again. admittedly the god group can't agree how to describe god nor which message is from god but those issues, other polls christian won.

[molonski2]

Just a giant lovely fantasy if it all were remotely true , there is no god , ludicrous suggestion.

[mrkdvsn]

God (the Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are certainly real. But I'm thinking that the next big hoax will be "space aliens" from other planets. Millions, if not Billions will be deceived by this gov't sponsored hoax

[Jersey2]

I genuinely believe He is real and if He is real, then everything matters. If he isn’t, then nothing matters, including if I was wrong.

[artgorgeous]

God is a useful patch in our life to explain unexplained.

[Anonymous]

That would make sense because it has definitely been used throughout history to control the masses, to this day.

[exitseven]

I think he is really but this is why it is called faith.

[TonyMetal___86]

God is real and the only ones who wants to control everything are the bad people who doesn't gives a crap about others...

[John_Doesnt]

Ultra Mega God created God, but Ultra Mega God has always existed.

[jahaims]

Is there a God? Nobody knows either way. Is religion a hoax to control the masses? Definitely

[DextroShade]

I sure hope not, because if there is He likely created the universe purely for entertainment.

[AngryCarl2]

Global warming is a hoax to control the masses. God is Donald Trump.

#MAGA

[slatyb]

When exactly was America great?

[AngryCarl2]

@slatyb Right after WW2 (if you were white).

[slatyb]

What was so great about it?

[AngryCarl2]

@slatyb Rapid economic growth.

[slatyb]

As opposed to the 1990s? Or now? The past ten years have been the best ever for me.

[AngryCarl2]

@slatyb That's good to hear. I should probably have made it more obvious that my original answer shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Dargil]

Yes there is. No, it's not.

[FunkyMonkee]

It's ALL a HUGE hoax!!

[BarryLiverstone]

He’s real and he’s spectacular

[rainbowww]

There is no God, it's just a fairy tale.

[Iron_Man]

God is real go to him

[Stillsleeping]

I really don't know. I voted unsure.

[Spongebobssocks]

He's real😌

[XXblack88]

He's real

[DaBiggestBird]

He is real.

[collie22]

God is real