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Why the SI Swimsuit Issue Should NOT Feature Plus-Sized "Models" (Page 2)
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Ok, first what is it with people calling another person a "whale", so you automatically dehumanized them so you can feel better about yourself? Second, most people who made it on SI , where skinny models nothing more. Also, VS models are just models with bomb shell bras that make them 2 to 4 sizes bigger and last minute squats. They even admit to this lol. This woman is beautiful, and I cannot wait until men are being held to the same out of this world standard women are. Its happening, and it will soon be the norm so enjoy the last bit of joy you have.. lol
@Dulcedulcexoxo Are you mad at me?
@ManOnFire ok, im going to need you to stop following me its getting creepy. I didn't answer because i didn't check my messages, and really just stop
@Dulceduclexoxo I honestly have not tried to be creepy. Even if you checked your messages you wouldn't have seen anything from me because I'm not able to send you any, that's what I keep telling you. All I wanted to do was ask a few questions for the book I'm writing, but I can't because you've only followed me and not added me completely.
@Dulcedulcexoxo I honestly have not tried to be creepy. Even if you checked your messages you wouldn't have seen anything from me because I'm not able to send you any, that's what I keep telling you. All I wanted to do was ask a few questions for the book I'm writing, but I can't because you've only followed me and not added me completely.
Your take is so sexist and so full of biased OPINIONS I can't even take it seriously. You act like being attractive to men is the best a woman can aspire to. Like women should constantly be giving a shit about how they look so they will appeal to your OPINIONS.
Well, guess what? The world is not your personal looking gallery. People won't always look like you want them to. Don't like that? That's too bad. You're going to have to deal with seeing women you don't find attractive.
PS: I think that girl is fucking hot.
Diversity is beautiful, I agree.
Wow, someone who actually has respect for women! :P
Dude, everyone lives in the real world, and we know what reality is, that's why these magazines exist. They're not supposed to sell reality. We have enough of that. They're suposed to sell the ultimate dream and desire. If they start putting up any half dream or half desire, it's just what we see everyday...
Let me put it to you this way: I wouldn't buy a car magazine to look at the latest Toyota corolla hatchback. Great family car, but I see those everyday. I would buy it to see some zondas or lambos.
It's not about reality, it's about the desire and imagination of the unobtainable.
If you only sell magazines with corollas, I'm not gonna start liking them. I'll just stop buying it and look somewhere else for the ferraris
You can't stop imagination. And remember, people want what they can't have. If the magazines take away the curvy skinny it will only increase the desire for them, because they were taken on purpose to impose others
@dominiquois @Mekkalyn
I love you dude.
@mikemx55 Yeah, but that's because you like those kinda cars. Some people might like different cars. Or have no problems seeing different cars. And of course, there's always the option of buying other magazines. That's why this MyTake is ridiculous.
@dominiquois @Mekkalyn @RainbowFanGirl Wow, ladies, hold on, there's enough of me for all of you ;P
Yeah, but I don't need the magazine for the next nissan micra, cause it's all over the place, and I can see it in reality...
@mikemx55 Then don't buy it, duh.
Okay
@mikemx55
Yeah, but there is not just one type of dream and desire, that's the thing. They're expanding to include more people's taste because there are different definitions of what is beautiful and attractive. I don't know how the fuck you don't understand that.
"I felt the divine call of duty to take a stand for heterosexual men everywhere."
I can proudly say as a heterosexual male you do not speak for me. I don't get it, though. Skinny women and even women who are close to anorexia have always been considered the top standards in the beauty media, but when a woman a little above average weight is featured on one magazine everyone starts bitching like as if skinny women are promoted as the lower standard of beauty all of a sudden. Smh...
To be honest, I do not even find Marisa Miller that attractive... And I'm much more attracted to Ashley Graham. If anyone think she is obese need to get a serious eyesight test... But there's nothing wrong if you like skinny women. You have your preferences and I'll have mine, but you can't decide whatever all heterosexual men should find attractive.
You do know there was 3 covers, right?
https://i.imgur.com/YFiDQDF.jpg
They have Hailey Clauson for men like you that want the typical slim pretty model. They have Ronda Rousey for men that like more athletic figures. Then they have Ashley Graham for those men that like thicker women. I don't see a problem, since instead of catering to just one type of guy (or woman, if she's into women), they are trying to cater to more.
I just wonder if SI did this because of "wanting" to reach a larger group or because of being pressured to be more PC and acceptable of different types of women. Hopefully it's not the later. I have to agree that the Hailey Clauson cover is the way it's supposed to be... the Ashley Graham one just grosses me out.
@cobrar97
So if only Ronda and Hailey were on it then they're not being PC but if they include Ashley in it they are? Lol, get your head out of your ass
@dominiquois I don't care a thing about being PC. It's about SI taking away from their publication by "trying" to be PC. Big girls can be in publications about how to make Christmas candy and cookies. Skinny girls should be in SI or similar magazines.
A fatty being in a bikini to make big girls think it's ok is about as stupid and skinny girls being in a cooking magazine to convince fatties that they can be skinny and still eat like crazy. It's just a bunch of lies both ways.
Except she's not fucking fat. She's curvy.
What a disgusting pig. too bad people will associate you with other decent men.
Ashley Graham is FAR from fat. she is actually just about the perfect weight, maybe a bit too thin. She represents the real women of the world. Most of us men prefer real women to the stick figured bulimics in the magazines (and I am bulimic myself).
I agree
Wow. Didn't even realize it was you again... From the "women don't cum from penetration" answer. I'm officially stalking you now, apparently. How off putting lol. Seriously tho, another fine response. :)
And here's me thinking, "Finally! An SI cover model I care to give a second glance to."
No one is asking you to change what you like.
No one...
Guys like me would just like for fellows like yourself to, oh so very kindly, STFU for a short time.
You won't always get what you want, but others will get their turn to.
I love Ashley Graham, I used to post her all over Google+ a few years back. As a lover of "plus size" women - which to me are really just normal women we all see and know - I'm glad she made it onto the magazine, and I wish as a culture we'd get over this stupid plus size - size 1 bullshit. MOST women do not look like ones in Hollywood, and MOST men date and pursue women with meat on their bones. So we need to get over all that.
Awesome answer! Especially about how plus size women are just people we see and know. I'm glad to see you don't let society dictate your preferences. Great job
@Ticxel Yeah, I really don't understand how people on here are pretending like they're some kinds of aliens or something. We see 'plus size' women in our lives everyday. I don't get what the big deal is.
"so as a man I felt the divine call of duty to take a stand for heterosexual men everywhere."
https://m.memegen.com/i645ot.jpg
Sports Illustrated swimsuit is NOT a completion, it's a celebration of healthy WOMEN. And healthy WOMEN manifest in more than one size. I'm glad they featured her. Otherwise I'd be incredibly boring to feature the same type of cookie-cutter women year after year. She's gorgeous
^ this af
Do I really have to tell you that SI swimsuit edition is porn?
Nobody is hating on the models. Sure, they're attractive if you're into fat girls (I happen to live in reality).
What would you think if media/society started telling girls that they're shallow and evil if they don't like fat, hairy guys? That's how it feels for us. Stop telling us that something we don't find attractive is attractive.
SI swim edition is not porn, you retard, it's mainstream modeling.
That women is NOT fat. She's healthy, curvy and thick. THIS is fat ( I googled "fat girl"):
i.dailymail.co.uk/.../...C00000578-318_638x931.jpg
4.bp.blogspot.com/.../IMG_0289.jpg
"if media/society started telling girls that they're shallow and evil if they don't like fat, hairy guys?"
This
3.bp.blogspot.com/.../fat_guy_3.jpg
is WAY different than this
orig11.deviantart.net/.../...28_by_naruto3ever.jpg
24.media.tumblr.com/...lsno86gSje1qkwokwo1_500.jpg
Most women care about the handsomeness of the guys face, first of all. Many women will like a chubby guy if he's cute.
Chubby can still be attractive (if he has a nice face). You men have a lot of self hatred, lol.
How are we the ones with self hatred? We're not the ones who started a lynch mob out to get guys who are calling a spade a spade.
Lol... if you are a guy, I recommend you wear a cap backwards or sunnies on your head, it always seems to make one look more attractive (like in those dude pics)
Except you wouldn't know what a spade is even if it fucking hit you in the head. You misattribute labels with simple things such as weight since you grossly exaggerate it.
Why do you care so much about which model will be on the magazine's cover, to the point where you're actually offended? I do agree that it's not healthy to be overweight, or obese, or skinny. Though in my opinion, beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. You can be unhealthy and look beautiful at the same time. You don't find that woman beautiful, but others will. Certainly body shaming goes two ways, since both skinny and obese women are facing criticism, while actually body weight should be a personal matter, since it concerns the individual's health. And of course magazines such as Cosmopolitan are worthy only for the beauty and fashion advice, and are indeed objectifying in a great degree.
1. You realize that there are men out here who LOVE girls with Ashley's body type, right? The world doesn't revolve around you & what you like.
2. I could see if she had a beer belly & a bunch of rolls but her body proportion/shape is perfect.
3. What kills me the most is when skinny women (& men who obsess over skinny women) go on forever about "health." First of all, the only person qualified to talk about health is a doctor. Second, just because you're skinnier than someone doesn't mean you're healthier. If you like skinny women, just admit that you like them because they're skinny, not because of some arbitrary, inaccurate term like health.
These people don't care about "health."
They use "health" as an excuse to be shallow. They need to just admit they don't like someone based on the way they look.
@EnglishArtsteacher That's my point.
& then the OP proceeds to go on about the "hard work" these girls went through, & no disrespect to women who work out a lot to keep their figure, but most of these super skinny models have been that skinny all of their lives... no hard work necessary.
That is LITERALLY what I just posted on this topic lol.
I ask: Do we have any evidence Marisa Miller "worked hard" for her body? For all we know, she's been thin her entire life by genetics. For all we know, she is thin from drug use. For all we know, she's thin because she barely eats (Which doesn't mean she "works hard").
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽Yes
I'm against unhealthily overweight models and models that are only """models""" because of their weight (e. g. tess holiday who's average at best even if she did lose all the weight)
But Ashley Graham is SI model material facially. She's got physical beauty for it, even if she is on the chubby size. It's not like they've picked an average looking fat girl and dumped her on the cover.
I suppose her weight doesn't fit in with the typical SI model criteria. And I suppose maybe she doesn't deserve the cover. But she is a pretty woman, she's glamour model material. She is definitely not a "whale" as OP so delicately put it.
THIS. OHMIGOD SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT!
The model on this cover isn't even just overweight, judging by how her elbows and knees look she's obese and it's not at all healthy. To give the cover to someone who is overweight and probably doesn't put in the same amount of effort as models like Marisa miller or Kate Hudson is just down right rude. Not to mention that sports illustrated is usually about promoting fit and healthy lifestyles of which I can 90% guarantee that lady does not follow.
I am in no way trying to "fat shame" or be rude because she is still a gorgeous girl and a LOT of people love "curvier" women but as you said there's a lot of girls who work so hard to get so fit and they were just robbed of the cover photo which isn't right.
You call someone obese and unhealthy who doesn't even have any rolls on her body?
Jesus, what is wrong with people's perceptions of healthy vs unhealthy?
Also her BMI is not in the obese category, which is 30 or more.
@Mekkalyn You can still be overweight without having rolls, haha. She's not far from getting them though.
Her BMI is 29.7 and according to the site I just looked on, that's considered overweight and if your BMI is classed as overweight, that's when you're considered "plus sized".
How can you possibly call her obese? You don't know her. A 30+ BMI is obese, and hers calculates to 24, which is healthy for her height.
I stopped reading after you said why should those women who keep their weight have lose to this oversized woman. Uuh Ashley G Is smoking hot and is thick and curvy now that's my kind of woman. If your body is built a certain way I don't think it's overweight just because it says you are. I'm 6'1 & 255 I was told that I was overweight on paper but I'm not because I take care of myself just like she could do or any other plus size model. & why can't a plus size model be on this cover? You know how long its taken us to even accept women like this not forcing women to be insecure and throw up to fit a certain mold because someone said skinny is better. A woman is a woman , the other models should congratulate her for this and you should just admire her beauty.
This was a well-crafted Take, even though I disagree with much of what you wrote.
You seem to suggest that advancement should be awarded on the basis of accomplishment and ability, but that's not really how the world works, right? Ashley Graham isn't on the cover because the "feminazis" demanded it. It was a marketing decision by Sports Illustrated.
Blaming "feminazis" for this is like blaming a mugging victim for walking down the street. Sure, feminists might have put the idea in SI editors' heads, but they don't make editorial decisions. Some editor (s) at SI apparently thought this would be a good idea. We can all vote with our dollars to prove them right or wrong, can't we? Isn't that the conservative way?
Also, much as it might gall you, some men (not either of us, OP) actually prefer large, full-figured women, just as a few beautiful women prefer big, heavy men. Are you familiar with the artist Peter Paul Rubens?
One of the ladies here commented that Ashley Graham is just one of three SI swimsuit cover models this year. You can bet that SI editors will be keeping count of which one sells the most magazines. The dollars will decide, as it typically works in American commerce, not the merit or morality of the situation.
" well-crafted "? there was no content other than insults and hate
@nalaa It was well-written, good construction, easy to read, concise. This does not deny or negate your comment.
Although I do think there was interesting, sincere content, much of which I disagreed with, but it was heartfelt and carefully (if not thoroughly) thought out nonetheless.
I think there's very little thought in there.
But ok, fair enough
SI likes to come up with scandals for their Swimsuit Issues every year in order to stay relevant. Congratulations you fell for a marketing scheme! You do realize you could always just google "hot bikini babes" or "naked ladies" on the internet right? By the way Cosmopolitan magazine has never nor will it ever be feminist.
I agree with you, and no one can change my opinion about this.
It makes absolutely no sense as to why someone who puts zero effort into their maintaining a healthy body should even be labelled a "model". It takes a tremendous amount of discipline to eat right and exercise everyday. Why is this overweight woman, who clearly has no self-control be celebrated? Craziness. I hate that obesity is becoming glamorized like this, especially in a society where obesity/being overweight is such a huge problem.
Okay... So you have a problem with a model being 'overweight'... How about all the UNDERWEIGHT models that magazines try to promote. Anorexia is just as much a common problem as obesity. You say that modelling takes a 'tremendous amount of self discipline' when this so-called 'self-discipline' equates to eating disorders in order to keep their weight up to society's unhealthy standards. I'm not saying you're wrong; overweight is by no means something to be celebrated. But this model looks healthier than most of our starved swimsuit models that we like to promote.
How do you know that she puts zero effort into her body? Perhaps she works out and eats right, we don't know that. Besides, her BMI is on the upper side of normal, and she is in a healthy weight range. She just isn't toned as other models. :p
@Yeahno12 Did I say that I was in agreement with all the size zero/underweight models being promoted? No. I am against both extremes. The fact of the matter is, in western society, obesity is a are far bigger problem than emaciation.
Self-discipline does not always equate to having an eating disorder. You are generalizing here. Are you saying fit and slim models do not exist? Because this simply is not true. If we are talking about the kind models who I think deserve be in the limelight (athletic types eg. Victoria Secret models) that kind of body type is absolutely achieveable in a healthy way, via good diet and exercise. You'll also find that the most popular, and highest earners in modelling have very toned bodies, with a good percentage of body fat eg. Gisele Bundchen, Adriana Lima, Doutzen Kroes etc. None of these women look weak or unhealthy.
@RainbowFanGirl By effort, I mean the blood, sweat and tears athletic models put into exercising everyday. I don't consider maintaining tidy nail beds, getting hair colored and moisturizing to be much effort.
I know what you meant, I just mean... How do you that she doesn't do anything?
www.popsugar.com/.../Ashley-Graham-Plus-Size-Model-Fitness-38426793
@RainbowFanGirl Exercising is not enough. If you're eating all the wrong kinds of foods, all the exercise in the world will not make you fit or healthy. She is a prime example of this. I also feel that she has agreed to these interviews for articles, so as to not be criticized for being "fat"- to give off the impression that no matter how much effort she puts in, it's just not possible for her to get in shape. Not true, obviously. These kinds of articles are dangerous for people who are trying to shed weight.
I get what you're saying. I exercise and eat right, and the weight sheds off like holy water. I lost like 80 pounds in the span of 6 months.
Perhaps she is trying to maintain her weight because she is a plus sized model and all? She's not obese. She's far from it. She is 165 and 5'9". That's far from it.
Anyway thanks for debating with me. 👍
@wildchild1 "Obesity is a far bigger problem than emancipation..." - no it isn't, actually. Anorexia may generally affect a different demographic of the population, but is still just as common. Also, you said that most of our supposed 'favourite' supermodels are super healthy, such as Victoria's Secret models. You are FAR from the truth here. This article about Adriana Lima's crazy diet before a show tells it all: www.shape.com/.../victorias-secret-angel-adriana-limas-runway-ready-diet
This is by NO MEANS healthy, and certainly cannot be disguised as self discipline. Victoria's secret may be an advocate of today's 'ideal' woman, sure; but it sure doesn't mean it represents health and a lifestyle to abide by.
@RainbowFanGirl That's a great achievement, congrats!
You know, I think you might be right about that. There is a market for larger models- so many women are supporting her... She has been in the media a lot lately.
Thank you so much! :) And yeah that may be it. She probably has to maintain her weight to keep her title as a plus sized model. That's all.
@Yeahno12 Yes it is, in the US, where this model is also based. Less than 2 percent of people in the US are underweight, and 69 percent are overweight/obese.
The doctor also states in that article that "There are better ways to get the same results", which again supports my point. Exercise regime and good diet. FYI this was Lima's diet leading up to the show only, and she was consuming liquids aka soup. Soup IS good for you if you add the right ingredients, which she must of been or she wouldn't have had the energy to work out. If she was unhealthy, she would have bad skin and hair. Both are signs of poor health, neither of which apply to her. Do you see protruding ribs? I don't.
Also, if you are so against the typical, slim model image, why are you a "Brand rep/model at HollisterCo"? You are supporting a company which is forever making girls/guys feel bad about their physical appearance. Their brand campaigns always support very slim and conventionally beautiful people. Hypocrite.
@Yeahno12 Also, you might not want to misquote me like that. I wrote EMACIATION, not EMANCIPATION. Emancipation- the fact or process of being set free from legal, social, or political restrictions; liberation. -the freeing of someone from slavery.
I agree with you completely!
I have been a journalist for somewhat more than three decades. I have also been the editor of a men's magazine.
I can say with expert knowledge and absolute conviction that it would be commercial suicide for Sports Illustrated to use plus-size women, which is Feminist Newspeak for fat chicks.
Fat is fat. At least 99 per cent of men find fat women to be repulsive, because we have been hard wired by millions of years of evolution to be attracted to signs of health and fertility.
Fat women possess neither of these attributes.
Calling fat 'plus size' is like spraying perfume on a turd and trying to persuade someone that it is a flower.
First off you don't know what the hell fat looks like if u think she is fat. I've seen fat it that's not what it looks like. Two for some guys to say what if they put a guy the same size up there women would be would think the same. Your completely wrong i actually prefer guys a little chunky and toned and that's what she is. She doesn't have fat hanging or a bunch of rolls to prove that you don't know what fat is. Three like a lot of people said then don't buy it. Your a boy you can't handle grown women curves and there are all types of women that are plus size. I've seen a lot of women with curves with no stomach, stretch marks or cellulite. Curvy is thighs butt and ass if you don't like then don't look im pretty sure they are not looking for u or at u. Everybody doesn't need to look like a stick figure.
i suppose every olympic track athlete, basketball player, baseball player, ... um go ahead and insert any other fitness necessary sport here... is a stick figure then?
@GuysGuy. No im talking about the points he made giving my answer. My whole point is that he doesn't know the difference between fat and thick. I've seen athlete's that are shaped different and they are not stick figures. If you read it. Im telling him that he must like girls that are stick figures. Because curvy is someone with hips, thighs, and butt. It doesn't have to be a lot it can be a little. Its a women who has curves.
Isn't this magazine supportive of "sport" and sporty people? The woman IS overweight and not within the healthy BMI, but she is attractive. She obviously doesn't do much activity though and certainly couldn't be put on the cover of a sport magazine. Sport = health, exercise, good eating. She doesn't show that at all.
I prefer women who are physically strong, not underweight or overweight to be on such things to be role models for healthy body types/weights to young girls. This woman makes it look like it's okay to be overweight, just like super skinny models make it look okay to be sickly thin.
I agree with a lot of what you say tbh. She's better suited for a magazine about attractive "curvy" women, at least she fits the bill then.
Yeah Ashley Graham is actually pretty hot and she's clearly got a body under all that, but she's so obtuse about it she deliberately walks around with that extra weight insisting that's "just how she is." A hot body is rarely due to genetics alone, you work your ass off for it.
Actually she's very pro active and on her Instagram there's many videos of her working out.
I've heard that her BMI is healthy - but I'm not 100% sure myself.
However, even if these things are true - it's not what people see. They just see the overweight woman and that it's okay to be big - rather than the lifestyle she really has
@Gems692 I've done her BMI myself, she's classed as overweight.
Yeah that's fair enough.
But she still eats well and works out.. not much she can do about that.
Also remember, that BMI isn't very accurate.
@Hannah591 Every doctor will tell you BMI scales don't tell the whole story. They don't take muscle mass, bone structure, or frame size into consideration.
Many professional athletes are considered "overweight" by BMI standards.
Of course, your medical knowledge is probably non-existent. After all, I received my information from my doctor who is WELL RESPECTED, 35 year veteran.
@EnglishArtsteacher She obviously has more fat that muscle, you just need your eyes for that.
She's a woman. We aren't supposed to be bulging with muscles and thin as skeletons. That's what's not normal
@Hannah591 Yes, of course she does. However, women usually have more fat than muscle-Even THIN women. Women have more body fat, where as men have more muscle. Once again, you're misinformed (This is Jr. high school Biology). However, she also has a wide frame, and large bone structure (Which adds weight as well).
I'll stick with the medical field on this one ;)
@EnglishArtsteacher Please stop teaching. Good lord.
Firstly - NOBODY has more fat than muscle without having a VERY short life expectancy. It's just a stupid notion to imply that's normal. Human metabolism doesn't do that naturally on it's own. THAT'S biology. That physical state needs to be forced through a diet an ancestral human would never ever have access to and through a level of sedentary living that would simply make them prey.
Secondly - If a "wide frame" and/or a "large bone structure" did exist, science would have a different classification for... whatever animal that would be. Different races vary slightly, but they're all still human.
So shouldn't go quoting the "medical field" when you are clearly VERY unknowledgeable. Holy shit, no wonder America has become so huge and it's a human rights issue to have to pay for two plane seats when that's exactly how many you need. Folks like you teaching our young people what healthy is need to stop. Pronto.
@GuysGuy -round of applause-
Being beautiful is not an accomplishment. Women like what you mentioned have struck the genetic lottery as much as anything else.
I get what you mean though. It's pandering to the crowd for good PR and most of the people arguing for it are hypocrites. That said, it's a magazine of mostly naked women so who cares?