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Abortion Rights: It's a Simple Choice, Right? (Page 2)
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I don't think most pro-life people think about the part. With if they made it illegal a good amount of women will go to desperate lengths to get rid of it. Even if it means she will die in the process, which at that point they will be too scared to be able to think logically.
Awesome take by the way. :)
Thank you. After I wrote it I realized it wasn't as balanced as I meant it to be. It kind of come off as anti-choice which was not my intent, I just wanted to show that abortion rights wasn't a simple problem.
I didn't think it comes off as anti-choice. Like you said nobody truly knows and each person has they're own idea about when a fetus is more like a baby.
no such thing as anti choice. just pro life and pro death.
@dudeman: is your understanding of the issue really that shallow? "Pro-life" people want to ban abortion, thus taking away the choice to have one. Pro-choice people on the other hand are not in fact pro-abortion. In fact, the vast majority of them would rather no abortions were necessary whatsoever. And certainly no sane person would actually wish for babies to be aborted. However, circumstances are such that sometimes abortions are necessary, and that's what pro-choice people recognize and why they support what they do. Claiming pro-choice people are pro-death is like saying that anyone who eats meat or supports people's right to eat meat is anti-life.
@cipher42 are you serious? the only valid reason a women has for abortion is to save her life. Doctors make that call nobody in their right mind would disagree with a doctors decision. pro choice people are pro death. there is no defense. you are on the wrong side of history.
im anti cow. fuck those cows im going to eat them. cows are not you children though. sad that you see human life to be less than that of cows.
@dudeman: You can think that if you like, but I will never agree. A woman's body is her own to control, and the life of a bunch of cells that can't even feel pain is not worth more than her right to bodily autonomy. And as I already explained, calling pro-choice people pro-death is ignorant and over-simplifying matters by a huge degree, and only makes you look as though you don't actually understand the arguments being made.
@dudeman: Human fetuses prior to 20 weeks gestation can't even feel pain, much less think. They have far less capacity for sentience or sapience than a cow, so I honestly don't understand why such a comparison would be so inappropriate. Like, I understand why your instinctual gut reaction might be as it is, but I honestly don't see the logic behind it. The reason we see human lives as worth more than the lives of animals is our capacity for understanding and for suffering, yes? Then why do we value something without that capacity so much?
@cipher42 you dont have to agree with me. it just makes you wrong and a hater of science. fine you dont agree with me. you also dont agree with equality, science and any other thing that would make you a decent human. good for you. thumbs up
@dudeman
In what way is @cipher42 a "hater of science?"
Could you explain what @cipher42 has said that indicates that she hates science?
Thank you @dudeman
she disregards science. she may not hate science but she certainly doesn't respect it.
@dudeman: what science exactly? Instead of calling me names with absolutely zero evidence, could you maybe actually support your argument with facts and logic? Or is that a bit beyond your capabilities?
@cipher42 well im a nuclear chemist. so all of science. you disregarded all of science.
@dudeman
Hi @dudeman
While it's fascinating that you are a nuclear chemist, it is an INCREDIBLY narrow subfield of chemistry. Therefore you would have little or no knowledge of a great number of fields, including but not limited to anthropology, geology, most aspects of biology. I mean the list of "science" that you would not be knowledgeable of would fill a book.
BUT that's not the point.
The point is, you have not been able to list even a single instance that illustrates that @cipher42 is "a hater of science."
What's even more fascinating is that, as a nuclear chemist, you would be thoroughly versed in how to go about demonstrating your point and illustrating other's lack of scholarship - to the point where it would be second nature, and yet you have failed to do so. You must be an extremely poor nuclear chemist.
@dudeman: basically what he said, though he put far more eloquence and effort into it than I would.
yeah im pretty stupid
@dudeman
If it makes you feel any better @dudeman , I hate " hater[s] of science" too.
but you hate science. so you hate yourself?
@dudeman
@dudeman again, present some evidence (as a nuclear scientist, you know what I mean by that) and present it in to justify your statement that I "hate science." Especially since I work in a scientific position and rely upon science for my livelihood (as do you of course...).
huh? drunk. say words smaller. i give you a ten word limit.
@dudeman
Prove it, when you say I hate science, with quotes.
by the way
As a scientist, you should value your neurons more, and not drink.
eh drinking is fun. I've got enough to spare.
super drunk im already a liter of vodka in keep up. its kind of amazing i do what i do.
@dudeman
Dude, you'll blow yourself up tomorrow when you're mixing all those nuclear chemicals. Remember your MDS.
no nothing i do is explosive. also i dont know what mds is. we make up our own sops and im the one that does it.
basically i dont like hos. you shouldn't either.
@dudeman
MDS=Material Data Safety sheets. You're a REALLY bad nuclear chemist. I wouldn't want to work with you.
I've always heard them called MSD not MDS.
maybe California is different.
The murder of a pregnant woman is considered a double homicide. So let me get this straight... it's only murder if the baby is wanted?
Lol, dont even i said the same he didn't like that
@somebodysaycheese
If by "He" you mean me, the author, I didn't get angry. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed that you had been lied to rather than being a liar yourself.
You are aware, I hope, that many of the things you posted are factually untrue?
en.wikipedia.org/.../Webster_v._Reproductive_Health_Services
Lol, you are aware you can got to govt sites and find that information. you are old enough to know that anyone even myself can edit wiki right?
@somebodysaycheese you can't edit wiki anymore😒 You have to be approved
@The_flying_Frenchman
And, @somebodysaycheese , more important than the fact that you can't can't just edit the pages anymore is the fact that they have LINKS to the ORIGINAL documents.
READ THEM if you care about TRUTH.
If you don't care about the truth, just keep on denying...
@theceejmachine
YES. In one instance she had active desire to carry on with pregnancy, with that fetus would eventually become a baby. Other instance mother took active steps for whatever reason to ensure it doesn't reach the state of it becoming a bay.
However even some feminists are against it, for example if a mother who is a drug addict takes drugs and the fetus dies she can be charged with murder.
Exactly double standards again. According to the warped and twisted pro choices I should be allowed to kill peonple that I don't want.
@bobbyxx oh get your head out of your ass chum. That is not at all the case and you know it.
@bobbyxx
"" should be allowed to kill peonple that I don't want."
Exactly. You can kill as many single celled people as you want. Feel free.
I'd rather people be allowed to abort. Get some idiot fucking around, gets pregnant (what a shock because I didn't use birth control or a condom). Then proceeds to smoke and drink during the entire pregnancy, has no job or anything to support the kid and it will just end up with a shitty life.
Abortion is early life termination, it's the only issues is this, is it morally defendable to terminate a innocent human simply because it's in a very early stage.
Another issues is, why do people refuses personal responsibility in life, not just pregnancy but almost anything!!! Unless a result of rape, both parents knew what they did, face it and live with it.
You said, "why do people refuses personal responsibility in life, not just pregnancy but almost anything!!! Unless a result of rape, both parents knew what they did, face it and live with it."
You forgot
Except of course for the VICTIMS of incest, women who, unknowingly have diseases that will die from a pregnancy, women who were told (incorrectly) that they were infertile, couples for whom birth control has failed (don't forget a 2-6% failure rate times 100s of thousands of couples equals a LOT of pregnancies), women abandoned and homeless who find themselves pregnant, etc.
I didn't forget victims of crimes, but the bulk all abortions are based on inconvenience of the parents, like you said if they didn't use protection or if the birth control failed.
For rape victims etc. it can be justifies, but not the bulk or 90+ % of the cases.
I can see your point. How do you propose we tell the difference between people who want an abortion because their birth control failed, and those who just want an abortion because they don't want, or don't have the resources, to care for a child?
I mean, I suppose we *could* do lie detector tests on everyone, but it would be expensive, and open to legal challenges.
I Don't understand why you felt the need to be so biased about this. Obviously you have your own beliefs and you're free to express them, but the way this is written is that you are offended by the idea of anyone disagreeing with you.
'Pro-life people don't think the same things I think, so obviously they aren't thinking for themselves'?
Did you actually just say that, if people don't think like you they aren't thinking for themselves? Do you not see the irony in that statement?
Many takes that are written on here aim purely to get as many prickly reactions as possible.
@MsElizabeth96 & @Carefuloutthere
Yes. I did say that. While it's NOT *provable* that statement is *generally* true. Pro-lifers strongly tend to:
1) Fail to read the entire MyTake, focusing exclusively on minor issues or quick aside statements that don't really reflect the MyTake's general thrust
2) repeat loudly and angrily stories and exaggerations that have been comprehensively debunked. An example of this is a poster here who claims that you can get an abortion at any time (no matter how far the pregnancy has progressed) in Canada and Germany. She however, refuses to read the actual law from the German web-site even though she claims to be German. Another stated (incorrectly) that there was a Federal law that considered killing a pregnant woman to be a "double-homicide).
3) Are generally unable to discuss the issue at hand, and bring in arguments about unrelated issues. One poster launched a long rant about "Hitlery" Clinton.
4) Show a generally low ability to tolerate disagreement, and almost immediately turn to ad hominem attacks.
So, that's why is engaged in a mildly sarcastic aside directed toward Prolifers. I hope my explanation makes sense to you.
Yes, and many pro-choice people do that. Does it really contribute at all to the debate if everyone is just going 'Oh pro-lifers do this, pro-choicers say that!'
@MsElizabeth96
You know what? You're right. It doesn't help. At the same time, the ratio of Pro-lifers outright LYING on this site is SO HIGH it's hard to always do the right thing.
That supposedly German poster also thinks that there are physiological tests for virginity, and that she's "seen it done at weddings".
That's in itsallover's thread here:
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a27767-10-godly-celebrities-who-waited-until-marriage-to-have-sex
So, taking her seriously is obviously a mistake.
@redeyemindtricks
tru' dat.
Some church discovered Gag and sends it's daily Pro Birth question...
desertbeacon.files.wordpress.com/.../prolife.jpg
@somebodysaycheese
"And many people don't know the effects of abortions."
Many are lying to the people, telling pure B. S. to scare ignorant people.
Just read some "Am I pregnant?" questions on Gag. The scare mongering is so intense that some 'feel' a moving baby within 24 hours after unprotected sex.
As for the psychological effects of an abortion, they're nearly all self fulfilling prophecies. Self persuasion from what they heard or read in Sunday school or in church or on the internet.
Same for infertility after abortion: the same people who tell horror stories about infertility after abortion also tell horror stories about 'bad women' using abortion as birth control. Contradictory.
Who cares what is or what is not a human life.
Unwanted pregnancy can ruin people's lives forever and if YOU are NOT the one who is going to have their life potentially ruined by it then your opinion is kind of really irrelevant.
The end.
Look, I am pro-choice, but, "Who cares what is or what is not a human life."
Do you really think that is a reasoned opinion? The killings in the Florida Nightclub were OK then?
"Hi. My grandfather is crippled and is a financial burden on me and is ruining my life, therefore I'm going to terminate him. Who cares what is or what is not a human life?" It matters.
@Princess_Rue
Or, @Kuraj , my 26 year old daughter has been sick for a month. I don't feel like taking care for her anymore. I think I just won't get up and give her anything to drink when she calls for help next time. I's OK because, "Who cares what is or what is not a human life?"
Well, sure.
And newborn chicks have self-awareness and cognitive abilities on a level that takes our useless human babies years to achieve.
Our hot dogs are more human than our toddlers.
So yeah, where do we make the line of what constitutes a human life?
Is an artificial sperm manufactured out of stem cells a human life?
Are we murdering billions of "potential" humans right now by not inseminating everybody with potential humans?
Or do we just agree to throw all of that wank out of the window and come down to what is abortion really about?
That it is about whether saving a "potential" life of something is more important than ruining your own, dropping out of school, never getting a decent job, potentially remaining a single parent without a chance for a healthy family future and ultimately dooming your "potential" offspring into a miserable life the society forced it to be born into because it was the "morally right" decision.
I'm very pro-choice for a simple reason.
I can't tell you a damn thing about the person pregnant, therefor I have no say.
I wrote a Take about this, I think you might enjoy it. It explains my view points.
"They probably don't actually *think* themselves, they have others think for them"... seriously? Got to love those one sided everyone else is wrong folks.
@Rocket_ Queen
Yes. I did say that. While it's NOT *provable* that statement is *generally* true. Pro-lifers strongly tend to:
1) Fail to read the entire MyTake, focusing exclusively on minor issues or quick aside statements that don't really reflect the MyTake's general thrust
2) repeat loudly and angrily stories and exaggerations that have been comprehensively debunked. An example of this is a poster here who claims that you can get an abortion at any time (no matter how far the pregnancy has progressed) in Canada and Germany. She however, refuses to read the actual law from the German web-site even though she claims to be German. Another stated (incorrectly) that there was a Federal law that considered killing a pregnant woman to be a "double-homicide).
3) Are generally unable to discuss the issue at hand, and bring in arguments about unrelated issues. One poster launched a long rant about "Hitlery" Clinton.
4) Show a generally low ability to tolerate disagreement, and almost immediately turn to ad hominem attacks.
So, that's why is engaged in a mildly sarcastic aside directed toward Prolifers. I hope my explanation makes sense to you.
You know what? You're right. It doesn't help. At the same time, the ratio of Pro-lifers outright LYING on this site is SO HIGH it's hard to always do the right thing.
Well I hold a lot of unpopular opinions, pro innocent life being one of them, but I definitely feel that I think for myself. I also think life begins at conception, and at the very least, with a beating heart which starts between 3 to 5 weeks if I'm correct. So where you think pro choicers can step back far enough to make sure they haven't crossed the line, I would say they have definitely crossed the line. But the problem still is there that most people can't even get a positive pregnancy test until around 4 or 5 weeks and by then you have a beating heart which is wrong to end in my opinion. I also don't think parents are taking responsibility for teaching their kids sex education. Abstinence is great but not that realistic, and we need to take responsibility as parents to help our kids make the most responsible decisions. And also stop society from viewing pregnancy as a death sentence. It's just a bump in the road of life that will be filled with even bigger bumps as you go on.
And I also don't agree with abortion being only the decision of the mother. It takes two people to create a child and the father is just as much of parent as the mother. Anyway, I digress.
Well *everyone agrees* that life starts at conception, no one I have ever spoken with has said otherwise. That is straw-man argument.
Except they don't. I have met plenty of prochoicers who do not agree that life begins at conception. So agree to disagree it seems.
No one disagrees the cell is ALIVE. they may disagree that it's a HUMAN life, but not that it's ALIVE. All cells are alive.
Let me be specific: human life.
It may be that some people do not believe a fetus to be human life, but virtually none claim, as you previously stated, that a fetus is not alive.
And as previously stated, I specified human life to avoid further confusion. Anyway, believe whatever you want, support whatever you want. Abortion is something that unfortunately is here and I don't see it going away, however that doesn't mean I will support it. My issue with this entire take was as I mentioned... that as someone who is pro innocent life "I must not think for myself". I called it out... You've explained your reasoning that it's hard to always do the right thing when so many people are lying. Support it, I won't. World continues to go round.
Very true. Have a good day!
You too! Take care = )
Personally I think they should be legal till about 4 weeks after that no cut off as it is forming properly as a young single parent I was pressurised into having an abortion from my parents but would not go through with it and I'm so glad I never as my daughter is my world everybody has different circumstances but I class it as killing a baby after about 6 weeks as it is starting to form very quickly
If people would consider the outcome of having sex before they do, abortion would newer com into the picture. We are selfish and that is why the problem start.
@gizmo4me2
Except of course for the VICTIMS of rape, child victims of incest, women who, unknowingly have diseases that will die from a pregnancy, women who were told (incorrectly) that they were infertile, couples for who birth control has failed (don't forget a 2% failure rate times 100s of thousands of couples equals a LOT of pregnancies, women abandoned and homeless who find themselves pregnant, etc.
''Abortion is mine by right. All who deny it are my foes'' - Stannis of House Baratheon First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm
abortion and people who support it are just part of our primitive past. we will move on from such primitive parts of our species or we won't last long at all.
Fantastic opinion. Theoretically speaking abortion could make humans extinct.
@bobbyxx
Practically speaking, religion may.
well im an atheist. still doesn't make abortion ok. people who support abortion should abort themselves and let the rest of the world get on with making civilization amazing. we dont need them. they make the world worse.
Yes well said. I agree hence I think it is the worst act ever.
@bobbyxx yeah im a scientist. all i ever wanted to do was make the world amazing. it seems that the world doesn't want to cooperate with me and people just want to fuck everything up.
Yes because there are fucked up people in society many of them brainwashed and socially conditioned. On abortion I have found some indications that this pro choice culture is diminishing.
@bobbyxx that would be nice for then world.
I really hope this is the case.
how does only raising children you can afford to educate and raise with proper attention, make the world "worse?" It would seem to me that bringing unwanted, uncared for, and uneducated children into the world would make the world worse. Witness the middle East. The kids there are "wanted" but they are uneducated and uncared for. What do they turn out to be? Human bombs and terrorists.
"well im an atheist. still doesn't make abortion ok. people who support abortion should abort themselves and let the rest of the world get on with making civilization amazing. we dont need them. they make the world worse."
You base your essay on the idea that pro lifers would be ok with disentagrating the fetus the second the Sperm gets inside the egg. Pro lifers believe that life begins at conception aka when the sperm gets inside the egg.
There are as several varieties of prolifers. Some argue for conception, as you said, but there are also those who judge by "a beating heart" and others by brain function.
But those latter two are called pro choice.
They don't consider themselves prochoice.
Stopped reading at the part where you mentioned "Star Trek".
I'm pro-choice. The end.
I'm pro life and I decided all that myself, I used to be pro choice, but after taking biology courses and learning more I believe life begins at conception, once the egg is fertilized you have a life.
I don't think anyone believes it's an simple choice, whether they are for or against abortion.
Actually a fairly large number of people (on both sides) think it's a no-brainer.
This is clearly anti-choice and ignorant on many levels. Women will have abortions regardless of the legality. The fact that women have already died getting illegal abortions proves it.
Oh well
i am pregnant, why do u put this terrible photo of miscareg
I felt sick when I saw it.
And I can't get pregnant.
What he did was disrespectful.
@yucel_eden
I'm sorry. It's not a miscarriage if that helps. If you need an abortion you need an abortion. Get one.
@mytakeowner
Dude she is right,
I've written takes on serial killers, unexplained disappreances, urban legends that turned out to be true etc. AND I WOULDN'T USE SOMETHING THAT GRAPHIC
@Waffles731
Live and learn. The editorial staff reviewed it.
@Waffles731 I think the photo is ok. But shouldn't be on the front page of GaG.
Coz I can just scroll down if I don't like the photo. But on the front page, it's just there.
@yucel_eden Sorry. I didn't put it on the front page. It must be a slow week for MyTakes.
@yucel_eden "And I can't get pregnant."... and u r guy, no wonder
Called sarcasm.
@yucel_eden what u even try to prove by this
@yucel_eden What's so sick about it, its just a fetus. Toughen up boyo.
It should be shown to all people who abort or defend abortion.
But it's NOT her body. It's the body of the yet unborn baby.
I'm usually a very opinionative person, but I have no idea on this one.
Wow! The baby is in its' own body. That's great man.
"but it's NOT her body. It's the body of the yet unborn baby."
No dude. The baby is in HER body, and she wants it OUT! Just like a cancer might be in someone's body but they want it out.
If Sloots would keep their legs closed then we wouldn't have to worry about any of this. That's the most cost- effective birth control method there is.
https://youtu.be/MMVzaIMYuTY
@Frenchtoast2020
Problem: it will work a few times but in the long run it does not give the hoped effect. Because humans are human.
Another classic:
Abortion as a means of BC". The legend. As if a sizeable nr of women had six abortions/yr.
So much for abstinence..:D
The world ain't a nunnery.
Damn those slooty VICTIMS of rape, child victims of incest, women who, unknowingly have diseases that will die from a pregnancy, women who were told (incorrectly) that they were infertile, couples for whom birth control has failed (don't forget a 2-6% failure rate times 100s of thousands of couples equals a LOT of pregnancies), women abandoned and homeless who find themselves pregnant, etc.
U mad bro?
Not at all. Me just hatez 'em sloots dude.
Das it mane. Das it