Why Do Atheists Care?

[Overthrow]

Something people of faith often ask is, "Why can't atheists just keep their non-belief to themselves."

This is something I believe most people of faith and even some atheists genuinely don't understand.

The reason atheists are so vocal about their disbelief is because people of faith are so bent on legislating their beliefs into law, getting their beliefs printed in textbooks in our education system, and establishing god and the ten commandments on public property. All of this, is a violation of the separation of church and state.

Most people of faith, are pro-life, anti-gay marriage, and anti-LGBTQ. Most people of faith believe in the Genesis account of creation. Most of us don't mind that you have these opinions no matter how much we may disagree. We begin to mind when you try to get your religious beliefs passed into law. We begin to mind when you begin denying people rights, simply because it's against your religion. We begin to mind when you don't allow people into your stores and restaurants because they don't conform to the rules of your religion. We begin to mind when you try to get your creation myth taught in school alongside the theory of evolution. We mind it when you say that a nation built on religious freedom, is a christian nation. We mind it when you cite "one nation under god" in the pledge when the pledge itself wasn't adopted by congress until 1942, and "under god" wasn't added until 1954. We mind it when you say "god is on the money" when that didn't happen until at the earliest 1864(coinage) and 1956(paper money). When you do all these things at once, it is an egregious violation of the rights of all those who don't agree and do not want your religion pushed on them.

We don't mind that you believe in god and you practice your religion. That is your right granted to you by the constitution. We mind when you cross the line and begin forcing your religion on others, and try to elect only officials that are adherents to your religion, and try to get your beliefs enacted into law, and taught in schools, and have monuments to your religion built on campuses and on public land.

This is why atheists are so vocal and active. If people of faith would be content to simply practice their religion and keep it in family, church, religious school, and home, we would be content to keep our disbelief to ourselves.

[madhatters4]

i'm neither an atheist or a believer... but any religious person who is critical of atheist for espousing their ideas is very hypocritical. religions, especially Christianity, have made it a mission for thousands of years to spread their beliefs and try and convert people to Christianity. they even coined their own word for it "evangelism"

[ginny_weasley]

As an atheist, I totally agree. Come on people, America is not and never will be a Christian nation. There is such a thing as separation between church and the state.

[Elarra]

Yeah, it's not a Christian nation, that's why they say 'One nation under God" and have "In God We Trust" on the money and 7 states have a law stating that non-believers cannot hold office... but yes, totally not a Christian nation.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but you're incorrect to believe that America will never be a Christian nation when it clearly is.

[ginny_weasley]

@Elarra let's ask a founding father.
1.bp.blogspot.com/.../ChristianNation.jpg

[Elarra]

I never said it was FOUNDED as a Christian nation. What I said was it is a Christian nation. The founding fathers also didn't want America to be a business country that had the mess taxed out of it yet look where we are at.

[ginny_weasley]

@Elarra yes and it's bullshit.

[Elarra]

Never said it wasn't. Just saying that claiming America is not a Christian nation is false because if it wasn't, states wouldn't be allowed to make it a requirement in order to run for office and Christianity wouldn't be plastered everywhere.

[goaded]

@Elarra Is it the states that make Christianity a requirement in order to run for office, or just the people living there making it unlikely that a non-Christian would get elected?

I think the former would be illegal (unconstitutional), whereas the latter merely unfortunate.

It's interesting the Bernie got so close to becoming a major party's candidate while not being Christian (and I doubt Trump has been a regular church attendee). Maybe thing are improving.

[ginny_weasley]

@goaded honestly I think it will be a while before an atheist holds a political office. Some people wouldn't even consider someone if they're atheist. JFK was Roman Catholic and people were extremely hesitant to vote for him.

[OrangeBoy]

@Elarra What, is that real?

"7 states have a law stating that non-believers cannot hold office... "

Im admired this still happens.

[ginny_weasley]

@OrangeBoy exactly. That's against the constitution and we have freedom of religion and I believe in science

[Elarra]

@OrangeBoy It is 100% real.

[Overthrow]

I don't think the laws against atheists holding public office is really enforced -due to it being unconstitutional- and even if it was all a politician would have to do is attend a church a few times a year to get around it.

But there are the statistics showing how untrusted atheists are in america. It shows a clear prejudice against atheists. I mean, we're trusted less than rapists... and for what? Not believing in god or gods. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, most of the united states is white and one denomination of christianity or another, but that does not make it okay to legislate not just against atheists, but any minority group in this nation.

What makes america great is our concept of inalienable rights, and when any majority starts to legislate to oppress and give themselves priviledge over any minority group, then guess what... We aren't great and america isn't special.

[Waffles731]

@Elarra A lot of the symbolism of America is actually Deist.
Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and Washington were all Deists

[VirginiaBeachBum]

@OrangeBoy While it is 100% real, I lived in one of the 7 states with such laws, and they are completely unenforceable. But, try running openly as an atheist and you'll likely not even get enough signatures to make it on a ballot. You can do away with the religious test in the law, but in peoples' minds, it's a bit more of a road to hoe.

[OrangeBoy]

@VirginiaBeachBum The evil atheist with no soul and porpuse in life will bring decadence to the community :p ruun ruuuunnn, burnn the atheist !!

[G-Daz]

This entire question was a bit irrational and ran on faulty logic

"The reason atheists are so vocal about their disbelief is because people of faith are so bent on legislating their beliefs into law, getting their beliefs printed in textbooks in our education system, and establishing god and the ten commandments on public property. All of this, is a violation of the separation of church and state."

You would have a rational basis to object to an idea if you objectively held superior beliefs. But... if you are a rationaly consistent atheist which you haven't demonstrated. You would acknowledge that there isn't such a thing as objectivity (if you want to argue otherwise, feel free to provide an example). Seems more like wishful thinking and a compulsion to push your atheistic based beliefs on anyone that disagrees with you.

"Most people of faith, are pro-life, anti-gay marriage, and anti-LGBTQ"

You forgot to add X. Its LGBTQX now. Germany and Canada introduced the X gender. IF you support killing babies, that's your issue but not something we should rationally defend.

"Most people of faith believe in the Genesis account of creation"

no they don't actually. this demonstrated exceptional ignorance. "creationism" in the sense of the American new age definition was denied since st augustus and extrauordinarily only came into existence in the us in 1972 in what is referred to today as teh "dover trials". it is the very reason south america hasn't ever had the issue america has regarding evolution (which by the way was founded by a priest and if you read the origin of species you should know whom darwin pulled references from)

you actually argue the ironic opposite of your title. you want to push your beliefs on anyone that disagrees but you haven't rationally justified any of it. You believe in moral absolutes which is intellectually dishonest as an atheist yet you seeem to have issued with differing ethical opinions. Kinda because most new atheists convert between the ages of 10 to 18 and maintaining the same beliefs they had when they converted through to adulthood... the only difference is they are louder but with nothing of substance to say. This whole post was pointless

[AssJacket]

A few things:

1. There's nothing that prohibits objective reasoning in a teleological moral framework. For instance, in this case we can objectively demonstrate that throughout history, nations with a lack of separation of church and state have either failed or have had significant problems associated with that lack of separation. Therefore, we have an objective rationale for limiting the influence of religiosity in public policy.

2. Jean-Baptiste Lamarck was the first to forward the idea of evolution, but theory of evolution is unscientific and can be easily shown to be unworkable even in your own back yard. The portion of Darwin's works that you mention spend most of their time discrediting Lamarck's propositions.

3. St. Augustus only denied the length of time it supposedly took God to create the universe, not the notion of Creationism itself. Also, the Dover Trails were about Intelligent Design, not Creationism.

[G-Daz]

@AssJacket
1. the teleological moral framework defines "good" and "bad" from consequence. I. e the ultimate end of an action dictates whether it is good or bad and this is dependent on what you define as purposeful. It's not objective, another way of defining the theory of the teleological moral framework is through utalitarianism. I. e what is deemed most beneficial but this itself is subjective. I could give an extreme example like Hitler, he deemed eugenics ultimately good (as has gained in popularity through the rise of designer babies modified genetically). Hitler deemed certain individuals unfit to breed and were detrimental to the human species as a whole. Human beings removed themselves from the laws of nature and his view of imposing himself as that law to execute certain individuals who were Jews, disabled or more as being ultimately beneficial to the human species and providing a healthy future. Now... i imagine you object. This is the major flaw of

[G-Daz]

the teleological moral framework.

So no... it is NOT objective. "For instance, in this case we can objectively demonstrate that throughout history, nations with a lack of separation of church and state have either failed or have had significant problems associated with that lack of separation. "

We have examples of those to base this as not the case. We could use the current atheist state of north korea which literally outlaws religion. It is a dictatorship. Or the soviet union, the worlds first atheist state which literally limited the freedom of those to find faith and outlawed the teaching of religion due to the presumption that it was bad for the human species. This is the major flaw in this argument.

2. Jean-Baptiste Lamarck did foster the first theory of evolution but also the father of modern genetics gregorr mendel preceeded him. Darwin actually had issues with the atheistic concept of trustworthy cognitive faculties within an atheist worldview which basically discredits

[G-Daz]

rational for any given atheist belief. darwin did not object from lemarck. rather he actually used it to substantiate his theory along with gregor mendal who's theories he relied on

3. "3. St. Augustus only denied the length of time it supposedly took God to create the universe, not the notion of Creationism itself. Also, the Dover Trails were about Intelligent Design, not Creationism. "

creationism is not a canonical teaching of christianity and there is nothing that objectively defines it as a christian taught doctrine, kind of like how atheists outlawed the big bang theory as it took on the long held steady state theory they struggled to move from

[AssJacket]

The teleological framework is consequentialist, but that isn't related to objectivity. Objective reasoning is predicated on making a judgement or deciding on a course of action by analyzing a set of options *without bias*, or by controlling for that bias. It's not related to universal truth or anything like that.

You're making a mistake by assuming that Atheists are consequentialists and (I'm assuming) that religious folk are universalists. In reality, though, the human condition exists in both frameworks simultaneously. Atheists make subjective judgements based on a morality that is some part consequentialist and some part universalist, just as religious people do. Just because they don't adhere to a particular religion doesn't mean Atheists can't hold something like "don't murder people" as a universal truth. That goes back to the Deist's distinction between "revealed" and "natural" universal truths.

[AssJacket]

It's also worth pointing out that the existence of bad actor states with no religion doesn't in any way, shape or form discount the rational objectivity of a position that the separation of church and state is beneficial to nations. You're denying the antecedent.

[BaileyisDarcy]

Why would you get stuck on LGBTQ? And since when is it LGBTQX? As far as Im aware its LGBTI. There are multiple versions of the acronym. Why bother correcting it?

[AssJacket]

@BaileyisDarcy The acronym beyond the 'T' is fluid, just like everything else in that space. In my opinion, it's not worth worrying about.

[inceptin951]

I disagree with you. As a former atheist and now Christian, I got to know a lot of atheists. a lot of them were as you described and those were the reasonable people. But then you get people like Bill Maher who's only goal in life is to talk down to religious people. They are vicious with their attacks and always bring up religion's history as an excuse for their actions.

a lot of atheists are bitter about their lack of accomplishments so they bash religious people, particularly Christians. I always find it ironic when atheists act like being an atheist makes them a genius and that they are smarter than religious people who are Presidents, Fortune 500 CEOs, engineers, doctors, etc. They gladly receive help from doctors, police, the military, etc. that are religious and then turn around and bash those same people. a lot of times I ask these atheists who tell me how "stupid" religious people are what they do for a living. Well they work at a manual labor job that requires zero intelligence a lot of times.

Take my ex-roommate for example. He was a smart guy but a complete nerd. He had no idea how to dress, how to talk to girls, how to even workout properly, etc. I would hear him complain about how Christians are so sexually inhibited so I asked him if he had ever had sex and he said he was a virgin. Knowing him and how he interacted with girls, he's probably never going to get laid until after college when he gets a good job and the woman only wants him for his money. So thats an example of an atheist who complains about religious issues that really don't even affect him since he couldn't get a girl to have sex with him even they weren't religious.

One more thing about atheists. I've noticed they love to bash Christians in particular but defend Muslims every chance they get. They reason they feel comfortable bashing Christians in a Christian-majority country is that Christians for the most part won't harm them. But then they don't dare criticize Islam because they might just get their heads cut off by some angry Muslims. I've heard the same atheists who hate Christians defend Muslims who killed people for drawing a picture of Muhammad. So if you're an atheist, at least be consistent in your criticism. Don't be a coward about it and don't bitch about things that don't really affect you because no one likes someone who whines all the time.

[Anonymous]

Atheist are so vocal because atheist are themselves a religion. They have atheist forum no different that christian forum. Atheist children camps, similar to christian children camp.

i.dailymail.co.uk/.../...3000005DC-599_468x286.jpg

Atheist on youtube who verbally attack at the mere sight of someone mentioning god, similar to religious fanatics.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fcU0XL_Vk6A/hqdefault.jpg

Athiest who try to change the law and get things taken down that were once traditional at a school because it offends them similar to how some religious people might do.

conservativetribune.com/atheists-try-to-shut-down/

www.charismanews.com/.../57392-valedictorian-defies-controversy-leads-class-in-lord-s-prayer

Atheist who can't shut about how god is not real and feel the need to create memes.
media.salon.com/2013/08/richard_dawkins2.jpg

There are even atheist churches for Christ sakes.

www.theblaze.com/.../...e1380035534136-620x371.jpg

i.huffpost.com/.../...IST-MEGA-CHURCH-facebook.jpg

You've essentially become the thing you hate and you guys don't realize it.

[BaileyisDarcy]

No.

Atheism is NOT a religion. Its very meaning is 'lack of religious beliefs'

So how can it be a religion?

[feminismisnarcissism]

one thing: atheism is NOT a "disbelief" it's the lack of a particular belief: theism

from the greek, "atheos" "lacking god" or "without god".

disbelief requires belief and awareness OF the belief to DISbelieve it. that's true with SOME atheists. but atheism requires NO awareness, just a lack OF faith in god/s.

for example: Buddhists and animists in many cases are atheists who lack awareness of any gods-they never heard of them. do they disbelieve in something they've never heard of? NO, they LACK belief - it's simply not there, due to lack of awareness. ATheism in it's truest form is ONLY the lack OF belief. disbelief is a subcategory and thus not truly atheism, but a type OF atheism. such as "anti-theism".

THat said it's very important. why? first to understand what atheism is and is not. it is NOT a reaction, it is the DEFAULT position, it is where we all begin-all babies are atheist until taught something theist and take faith IN theism.

further it's important for the burden of proof. the burden of proof rests with the positive belief and inherently atheism is a negative position BECAUSE it's the position LACKING gods, versus being against them-which can be a positive position, thus causing a sharing of the burden of proof.

we have the advantage as atheists-we don't have a burden of proof inherently until we make a positive claim. basic rules of logic. Theism however, requires a positive position inherently and carries the burden of proof no matter what. So don't hand them the ability to shift the burden on a platter, yes :)

[feminismisnarcissism]

@Waffles731 exactly, founded on DEIST principles, and they couldnt be further from chrsitianity.

take the declaration : It says "inalienable rights" think about that, what does inalienable mean? It means CANNOT BE REMOVED> notice-that simply won't work with an "all powerful god" like Yhvh/jesus/jehovah" but works perfectly with the deist god who is absent and therefore powerless-he can't remove those rights-he's the one who dished them out, the "great architect" not jesus. And despite the dishonor christians have done to America, stabbing liberty in the heart-the Constitution reigns the highest law of the land and never ONCE mentions "God" or "Jesus" that settles it-and duh... we were RUNNING from christian theocracies. It is a SECULAR nation, not a christian nation. THe disgusting hijacking BY christians and defiling OF it BY christians only shows how UN-American christians are. It hardly changes what America is-which is defined ONLY by the Constitution, a SECULAR document.

[Overthrow]

Well sir. We disagree greatly on MGTOW, but I want to hug for this post. Why don't you write a MyTake?

[feminismisnarcissism]

@Overthrow do we? I'm a pretty flaky MGTOW since I live with a woman, so don't take me too seriously there. Mytakes aren't really my thing.. but you know what I like to do? Well as you see I got bored of debating Christians about a decade ago... once you're 5 steps ahead of them it gets boring.. so I started debating fellow atheists. So i sometimes go to debate. org and pose a debate, but take the pro-God side of it, mostly to keep my debate sharp-best way is to take the other guys' side... but naturally another atheist will sign up to take Con, and imagine the ride theyre in for-they expect intelligent design and anti-evolution and other drively arguments... but I try to come up with original shit to argue FOR "God" and well it's fun messing with their heads lol.

and hug accepted :) thanks lol

[feminismisnarcissism]

and it was a good mytake by the way, I'm just a bit hard on other atheists regarding fallacies or misunderstandings... we have the truth after all, so we have no excuse ;)

[Overthrow]

I'm bored of it too. I honestly dread even writing these things. I just feel like it's important to start a dialog on this, since I feel both sides misunderstand or lose track of why we're even talking. Also, I left a whole lot out of this MyTake... I was tired lol!

[hellionthesagereborn]

I couldn't get through the first paragraph, it was just so inaccurate. The man who sequenced the human genome is christian, in fact many scientist are religious, 84% of the world is religious a third of which are christian. Almost all religious people keep their faith to themselves they fight to prevent the merging of religion and state don't believe in the literal interpretation of genesis or anything else you just said. Atheist care because they hate religion which drives them to attack it at almost every opportunity hence them claiming that religion causes wars (which of course is provably false as all religions are against violence and every single war happen to have political benefits to the people who advocated it) when clearly its politics as atheist have caused wars and commited atrocities as well as just politics in general. The man who came up with the big bang theory was a physicist and also catholic priest, James Maxwell who actually came up with most of our knowledge of magnetic fields and also helped usher in quantum mechanics was also religious. See what you have said is quite literally made up, its not real its just propaganda to push your ideology on others, ironic since you claim that religious people do this so much but if you look only small groups of people with very little power try this and atheist. Atheist push their ideologies onto others all the time but you don't really see that with religious people. I believe the reseason for this is atheist have a personal grudge against religion not because they are rational (they are not they use the same erroneous thinking as religious people).

[JRICHARDS1996]

Who said that Pro-Life and Anti-Gay Marriage are exclusively religious positions? Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of the workings of biology would hold such positions. Christopher Hitchens himself was pro-life, although I do not know his position on same-sex 'marriage.' Ayn Rand among others were Rightist atheists who adhered to the ideals of conservatism.

In recent years, the Left has become much more militant in legislating their worldview than the Christian Right has. It is not the religious whom are utilizing militarized political correctness to redefine the very notion of gender itself and bully into conformity anyone who expresses even the slightest bit of dissent. It is not the religious who have completely thrown Darwin and formal causation out the window to accommodate the perversion known as homosexuality. That was the Left, which is an inherently atheistic and secular ideology.

And its end place is either the gulag or the guillotine.

I have no faith in atheism whatsoever or the ability to produce a good secular society. It was your people that put millions of my people in the gulags and nearly exterminated us across Russia. It was your people that martyred St. Tikhon of Zedonsk. It was your people that were behind the French Revolution and every single failed Marxist utopia and "progressive" thought experiment of the 20th century. You find yourself discomforted by the influence of religion in American life? Good. Because the alternative is way worse, as history attests to.

[Anonymous]

"We don't mind that you believe in god and you practice your religion'

I could not disagree more. I do mind. A lot.

As human beings we all have a duty; to be the best person we can be, to discover and understand how our world works, how our universe works, and to find what else is out there. Only so will we advance as a race.

I am a firm believer of self improvement. If I do not understand something, I will do research until I do understand it. If I want to have something, I work until I can afford it.

There is no super power that "works in mysterious ways". Everything can be explained.

Religion does the exact opposite of this; it teaches people to be content with not knowing or understanding something. When you have a nice meal on your dinner table, that's probably because you worked hard to earn the money to pay for it with. You don't thank "god" - the only person you have to thank is yourself. "god" did not take your grandmother away, old age did. That's simply how life works. "god" did not heal your sick mother, the doctors and the medicine did.

When you don't understand why someone dislikes you, it's not because "god has a plan for us all", it's probably because you're just a dickhead.

Also the mere act of worship is a sickness.
We are all born equally. To put someone in higher regard than yourself reeks of mental instability.

[Overthrow]

Ofcourse deep down, I do mind because (abrahamic) religion breeds ignorance, violence, bigotry, and is built upon telling people they're sick and commanding them to be better. If I had it my way, everyone would be like this poem...

[Overthrow]

Living is difficult.

It is full of sticky situations and exceptions to truisms.

But you don't need it to be spelled out in a book to live by strong moral principle.

I want to be the best person that I can be.
I want to do well by people, to love deeply and be loved deeply.

I want the best life I can get, to be excited to wake up in the morning.

I want to think about existence, to stretch and bruise my brain through learning, to raise children who love learning, who are confident and open, and love others.

I want to pass to them as many of my pros and as few of my cons as possible.

I want to laugh, to enjoy the pleasures of food and travel and art and literature, to see great sunsets and be thrashed by great storms.

I want to shiver with wonder and awe at the universe, and nature, to sob at the absurd unbearable brightness of human existence, to glow red in the heat of human triumphs, and shake my head in shame and disbelief at our broken record failures.

[Overthrow]

I want to shiver with wonder and awe at the universe, and nature, to sob at the absurd unbearable brightness of human existence, to glow red in the heat of human triumphs, and shake my head in shame and disbelief at our broken record failures.

I want to be stirred by music, to be broken by drama.

I want to live forever, and I see the appeal of slipping away eventually into the eternal quiet.

A human lifetime is a seasonal growth of a tiny twig of the human branch of the mammal limb of the tree of life.

It is a carnival ride and a game of dice.

The low bar is survival, the high bar is progress, and the taste of brie and sound of children's laughter are the sustaining fuel keeping us aloft through the surprises of each fresh day.

[Overthrow]

But the truth is that it's unrealistic to expect everyone to be rational. So instead I hope that before my brief time in the light is up, I can at least see people of faith realize that liberty and the well being of society and theocracy are not the same.

[amarahorrorstory]

All I have to say is, if I say "I love God" I don't want an atheist commenting saying "HAHA WHAT A FOOL, GOD IS FAKE" like God is fake to you and real to me. I don't push my beliefs on anyone else, so no need to mock anyone for it. This coming from someone who used to be agnostic. I feel that way about anything along those lines. Like astrology, pretty fake but I like it so I'm just gonna mind my business. I don't care as long as you don't make fun of people. Like someone said below, making memes and going out of their way to mock religious people. As a Christian, I pay no mind to people who do not believe, I really don't give a fuck. I know Christians are pushy as are people of many religions, but atheist are pushy as well. I can't really think of a group as far as religions go that doesn't have an ugly pushy side.

[MasterofPlebs]

I'm going to say how wrong your position is regardless of how much you don't like it. It's an idea, and ideas can be either wrong or true, they cannot be both.

[amarahorrorstory]

@MasterofPlebs that's your opinion, and I have mine, neither of us will change so it's incredibly pointless to even come at someone over it. Just a dick move.

[Rissyanne]

I work with an atheist. He is rude and angry all the time. He gets in the middle of your conversation... and can be in your face. If you believe in god he calls you names. A lot of people don't want to be around him anymore. That is my experience

[AssJacket]

I think we can all agree your coworker is an asshole.

[Kantana]

I'm an Atheist and he just sounds like an asshole.

[Rissyanne]

@Kantana He is... and I have defended him several times. But when he called me stupid for believing in God. That was it.

[Overthrow]

I may not agree with you on a lot of things, but this guy you work with is an asshole and gives atheists everywhere a bad name. I wish you knew some more respectful, tactful, and thoughtful ones that can show a modicum of respect in spite of your differences. Sincerely, I'm sorry you have to deal with this guy.

[Rissyanne]

Well I am hoping he will just mellow out.

[Overthrow]

Is he young? Maybe just immature? A lot of young new atheists have a lot of anger because they feel they've been decieved purposely and they have yet to develope tact. Or maybe they are one of the minority of atheists that were never religious to begin with and lack perspective. Or it's possible, he's just a judgmental moron. Either way, yes, I hope he mellows out.

[Rissyanne]

@Overthrow can you follow me so I can message you

[QuestionMan]

As an atheist I have a lot of issues with the atheist community.
It used to be just about separation of church and state and an ideology of pluralism so long as no one infringed on anyone else's rights but has transformed into a Cultural Marxist cult. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I suddenly have to be pro-LGBT, pro-choice, pro-BLM, pro-gun control, a Keynesian and hate Christianity.

I have my own views and I'm no less of an atheist just because I'm not an SJW.
Atheism is just the lack of faith in a higher power that's it.

[SteelerNation50]

You know there are several states that actually have laws on the books to keep atheists from holding office? It's obviously unconstitutional and not enforced but they are still there. Imagine if it was a law that said women can't hold office everyone would be outraged but for atheists nothing.

[Overthrow]

Yep, it's ridiculous. Even if they aren't enforced.

[HOAAH]

I think that everything is a choice,
if I choose to believe in God what is that to you?
If you choose to believe there is not a God what is that to me?
and if I go to a church that is not tolerant of certain behaviors you have the right to not go if you don't want to.
If I want to write about my love of God, and you don't like it you have a right to not answer it... what's it to you if I do declare my love for God on the internet?
What's that to me if you don't believe in God and declare your non belief?
Do you see what I mean?

[goaded]

Go back and read past the second paragraph. @Overthrow answered your question in paragraph 3.

[Overthrow]

You're absolutely right and that's how it should be. We have freedom of speech and freedom of (and from) religion. Like I said in the Take, I don't care that people are religious or that they are vocal about their belief or that they practice their religion. That's not the problem. The problem arises when people of faith try to get their religion legislated into law. The problem arises when religious parents try to get their religious myths taught alongside scientific theory in schools. The problem arises when people of faith post their religious doctrines on public land. Do you see what I mean? If people of faith would contain their religion within the confinds allowed by the constitution, and stop trying force others to live by their rules. You wouldn't hear a peep from atheists, except the asshole ones who just want to put down believers, and that goes both ways also.

[BlueCoyote]

What's it to you if I enslave you because my religion happens to state that all women should be enslaved? Oh see, now we get into troubles. This is why some of the smartest people of the 18th century in Europe and America came up with the idea of secularism.

[Kiran04]

Islam is one of the worst offenders for trying to get beliefs enshrined in law. In fact, Islam IS law to Muslims. It has a legal system already written in, and some countries use that system to govern. Well, that's utter and complete horse shit. The separation of church and state protects the state from the church just as much as it protects the church from the state. Why progressives now give Muslims a free pass is just completely baffling to me. If anything, they are more anti-LGBT and women's rights than Christianity ever was, but suddenly we have to put up with their bullshit because brown people. What a load of crap.

[AssJacket]

I'm both a Liberal and Not-A-Christian (tm). Muslims don't get a free pass. What they get is the right to practice and preach their religion *on equal terms* as Christians. On the Right, sometimes people support public policy that only applies to Muslims, and that doesn't fly with us. Public policy needs to apply to everyone or no one.

[Kiran04]

@AssJacket Oh please, when even the criticism of Islam is met with hatred and demonization you know you've long since lost "applies to everyone or no one". I'm not a Christian either and dog shitting on Christians has been the hip thing to do since 2014, but everyone starts crying "racism" when you criticize or hate on Muslims, never mind Muslim isn't even a race. The problem with Islam is it isn't just a religion. It's also an economic and legal system. Muslims are just as bad as Christians at forcing their faith upon others via violence, only there are many, many more of them. The police in London even have a task force dedicated to tracking anti-Islamic tweets. Islam is already under a policy that applies only to Muslims, and that is "some of you are brown so we'll let you do what you want". I assure you, the right is not the only one giving Islam a special treatment.

[Overthrow]

Muslims don't get a free pass. America is predominantly christian. That is the reason christians get all the shit they do here. If America was for the most part muslim, muslims would get the same shit. In countries that are for the most part muslim, secular groups fight islam. Which religion gets more shit depends on where in the world you're at. Muslims get the same treatment from groups like FFRF in America, it's just rare because islam doesn't any power in America. Christians in America are a very powerful and influential majority in America, and they're the ones trying to impose their will in America.

[Overthrow]

Also, christianity was just as bad as islam just a few centuries ago. It's pure ignorance to believe otherwise. The only reason christians aren't still crusading, and burning people at the stake is because -unlike islam- christianity was dragged kicking and screaming out of the dark ages.

[Kiran04]

The hell are you on about? No one defends Christianity on anything. I sure don't. Christianity being bad doesn't make Islam good. Islam is easily worse. It's a garbage religion that everyone makes excuses for, never mind it wants to slaughter us all.

[bloodmountain1990]

I agree. I'm an agnostic and I don't care what people believe or don't believe as long as they don't use their views to justify bigotry and violence or force it on others. Same goes for militant atheists. I've met some atheists, not all, that force atheism on people and they're no worse than the ones they complain about. They act like they know for sure there isn't a God and expect others to follow them just like aggressive religious people do with their religion.

[Kirah]

Well said.

We don't "hate god", we aren't insecure about our beliefs, we just don't want you to use your beliefs to pass laws.

[Waffles731]

I believe in a deity and I just follow this rule
i1.kym-cdn.com/.../27c.png

[DarklordOdin]

Though I'm pretty religious, I honestly think irreligion, or at least atheism, should be more common. Religion shouldn't have much, if anything, to do with politics, thus all theocracies should be dissolved. The idea that religion should influence law is inscrutable.

[helloitsmethere]

I'm from a Christian background and I am friends with a few Atheists.
Want to know why? We don't push our personal beliefs on each other.
If someone wants to believe in God, let them believe for fucks sake. I believe in Him, and if you don't believe in Him, then fine. But don't come after me for my beliefs and I wouldn't even do that to a person.
Case closed.

[skeptic002]

hey people don't wanna believe there's a hell
that's on them

but I will keep talking and annoying people
and proving them wrong

it's not hard

people just can't fathom a GOD existing and having rules
and making us accountable for those rules

[Overthrow]

Whst you don't understand is that it's your right to believe and practice your religion, but when you vote based on religion, and deny the rights of others, and teach your creation myth in any school other than a religious school, and post your beliefs on public land, you're infringing on the rights of others, and that is not okay. I really could care less what you believe as long as you don't force it on others.

[skeptic002]

EVOLUTION IS TAUGHT IN SCHOOL ALL OVER THE WORLD AND IN AMERICA

LOL AND YOU SAY MY RELIGION IS FORCED
NO YOUR RELIGION IS FORCED ON US

[Overthrow]

I'm not going down your delusional rabbit hole with you. Evolution is a scientific theory supported by mountains of evidence. A theory in scientific terms is not the same as a guess. It's the highest accolade that can be achieved in science. Atheism is the opposite of religion. That's the truth no matter what conspiracy theories you believe. The earth is an oblate sphere orbiting around a medium sized star in a galaxy in space. The fact that you believe in the bible doesn't give you the right to fuck over others. We aren't forcing anything down your throat other than your beliefs aren't reality and atheists and people of other faiths and anybody else who doesn't agree with your beliefs don't have to put up with your religion anywhere but in your church and in your house. Outside of those places, fuck your myths and conspiracy theories, and delusional rabbit holes, we don't have to live by your rules.

[skeptic002]

you really wanna debate me and lose
I beat everyone on this site in a debate

and i can state it out loud
I make evolution look like a joke
it was invented 5000 to 6000 years ago by the Annunaki
or what we would call aliens today

im not gonna trust aliens abducting people
and taking male sperm and female eggs
you crazy

you wanna follow there lie good luck

[Overthrow]

You don't win debates. You drag people down your delusion rabbit holes and then claim victory when they can't do anything but laugh at your stupidity.

[Overthrow]

You're stupid and you drag others down to your level of stupidity and beat them with experience. I'm not going to entertain your delusions.

[skeptic002]

no cause i have done this
live in a group
and ever time i leave them second guessing

my friend now thinks GOD might exist he doesn't wanna admit it
and so do the rest of them

but some say its all fake
okay if it's all fake prove your case and show its all fake

THEY NEVER CAN
CAUSE IF THEY COULD THEY WOULD

I know whats fake and whats real
I studied it out, even people who believe in GOD say hey look this is fake
this is fake and so on

you just don't want a GOD to exist
to bad all the evidence for the bible is out there for people to see

AND I WILL TELL EVERYONE THAT I CAN

[Overthrow]

Prove unicorns don't exist. Prove Zues doesn't exist. Prove Osiris doesn't exist. Prove werewolves don't exist. I don't have to prove anything. I'm not the one claiming a supernatural controlling deity that created the universe exists. You are.

The problem is that you want SO extrordinarily and desperately for god to exist that you accept anything and everything that you believe "confirms" your delusion. You accept evidence no matter how questionable, no matter how incredible, no matter how unreliable, because you are so desparate for there to be a god.

The truth is there is no reliable empirical evidence whatsoever that confirms your myths. There is just you and your hilariously fallacious logic, and abhorrently biased research habits.

You are delusional. Period. End of story.

[skeptic002]

unicorn
i2.cdn.turner.com/.../...l-unicorn-1-large-169.jpg

media.mnn.com/.../...unicorn-002.jpg.838x0_q80.jpg

Zeus came down mated with the women and the children became giants
thesecondachilles.files.wordpress.com/.../image.jpg
BOOK OF ENOCH CHAPTER 6
And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children

https://img.webme.com/pic/k/ka-ta/1.jpg

the head of osiris you kow where im going with this
upload.wikimedia.org/.../...ca._595-525_B.C.E..jpg

cdns.yournewswire.com/.../...ruskulls-620x254.jpeg

ITS TOO EASY TO PROVE MY CASE ONLY 1000 LETTERS SORRY

[Overthrow]

I rest my case. You're a nutbag.

[BaileyisDarcy]

Oh sweety...

You poor poor disilusioned creature.

Thats a rhino. Not a unicorn.

That foot print was caused by an over hang in the rock.

And whenever you have a case that is 'too easy to prove' that in itself is proof that you are proving your point only to yourself.

[skeptic002]

no cause the unicorn is not a horse with a horn
if you actually read the text
its an (untamedable animal with a horn on its head) not hard to figure out

zeus is just a fallen angel so is thor odin and a lot of these other supposed gods
of the ancient past cause they all do the same thing rape the women

and osiris has a cone head not hard to figure out
lightwayart.net/.../paracas_skulls.jpg

[skeptic002]

@BaileyisDarcy

a horse is tameable thats not a unicorn read the text
weknowyourdreams.com/images/unicorn/unicorn-06.jpg

[BaileyisDarcy]

Mythology is a wonder ful thing is it not?

Leads stupid people to yhink its actually fucking true.

[skeptic002]

@BaileyisDarcy

Genesis 6:4
There were GIANTS in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them

sons of god come down have sex with the human race giants
annunaki come down giants
zeus comes down giants
thor and odin come down giants
hopi indian tribe giants

3.bp.blogspot.com/.../...Year-Old+South+Africa.png

www.talkpundit.com/.../footprint-31.jpg

muhammadabdo.files.wordpress.com/.../...apyrus.jpg

only 1000 letters i can only fit so much

[skeptic002]

@BaileyisDarcy

this is real hun and if you want to test it yourself

[BaileyisDarcy]

I have a tip for you. When arguing over mythical critters, do not bring up the bible. Because that bloody thing is just as mythical.

That rock has an overhang, the 'footprint' was caused by water eroding the area around it.

The second one, the rock was formed with deposits of a weaker material, over time these deposits were eroded by water, leaving behind the markings you see.

Let me show you how people began believing in mythical creatures.

"Gather round kids, let me tell you a story about the monster that's goin gto get you if you misbehave"

The same place werewolves/goblins/vampires came from.

[Overthrow]

@BaileyisDarcy
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...918cd3e770.jpg

[BaileyisDarcy]

XD trueness in itself haha

[skeptic002]

@BaileyisDarcy

NO!!! erosion did not create that
it's obvious
it's a foot print not hard to figure out

if you can't trust your own eyes then you are stupid
you are blind

on top of that you are saying the whole earth was lying in the past
now it's your word
versus the whole earth in the ancient past
I will believe the ancient past

there's evidence for it today
enough for me

[BaileyisDarcy]

It's bloody erosion ya fuckwit.

There's evidence for it enough for you and ONLY you. I'm pretty happy to stay living in my populated sane world, while you flutter about alone in your fantasies XD

[skeptic002]

@BaileyisDarcy

your issue is you don't want a GOD exist
instead of searching it out and studying to find out if it's true
you just throw it away

that's called stupidity

[BaileyisDarcy]

Stupidity?

What, not believing in a mythical creature from a book, that nobody knows when it was written, who it was written by, or even if it was simply the Lord Of The Rings of its time and people just fucked around and made a religion out of it?

You know how we all laugh at people making a religion out of Star Wars? Guess what The Bible is. It's fucking Star Wars.

[Overthrow]

@skeptic002
Here are your fallacies:
Straw Man
False Cause
Ad Hominem
Tu Quoque
Personal Incredulity
Burden of Proof
Appeal to Authority
Anecdotal

I give you a 10 out of 10 for the mental gymnastics you endured to convince yourself of these absurd conspiracy theories.

[skeptic002]

@BaileyisDarcy

hun it was written 5000 to 6000 years ago
add the dates from Adam until now not hard

the bible itself tells you the generations in each chapter
so you have an idea who wrote it sometimes it clearly tells you who wrote it

genesis alone has 10 authors
see you haven't studied it out

i try to study what i can get my hands on
of the ancient past
no matter what god they talk about i wanna see
cause 9 times out of 10

the same story is gonna pop up
they came down had sex with the women and the women gave birth to giants and weird creatures

so when you hear all these stories of the past
of women dying during birth im not surprised anymore something is inside of them that shouldn't be
seashoremary.files.wordpress.com/.../...images.jpg
theoutsidersreport.com/.../alien-shot-2.jpg

[skeptic002]

BURDEN OF PROOF LOL
dude you are an idiot i have more proof then you ever will
you just don't believe it

[BaileyisDarcy]

You have NO proof.

Women died of childbirth because their medicine was SHIT back then and they thought fucking bleedign their patients out would cure them of anything!

You have studied NO history.

Your name is Skeptic but you are the least skeptical person I have ever come across and the most gullible.

[Overthrow]

Obviously you don't understand what burden of proof means. You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove. But that isn't shocking. You claim the god of the bible exists. I don't believe you and demand verifiable, empirical evidence of the god of the bible. You give me well known discredited, heavily fallacious, conspiracy theories. When I don't accept the absurd excuses you call evidence, you tell me to disprove your god. You're making the claim. Hence, the burdon of proof is on you, not me.

[skeptic002]

@BaileyisDarcy

hun i use to believe in evolution like you until i studied it out
it's a joke lol

[skeptic002]

but yeah im done i spoke to you now
i gave you the truth
you wanna deny it bye :)

[IceCubedude]

now lets see, america has 320 million people of which at least 260 million identify as christian, how much is that like 70% ? i believe its quite logical, and reasonable for it to be a christian country, i think its better to separate church and state but the facts remain , it is a christian country and the majority are christian, A country with no religion is a hollow country , with no substance.