What Being Gay in Russia Looks Like

[echoaj]

Why does everyone lose their mind when you say something bad about Russia? Nobody bats an eye if you point out the bad parts about Saudi Arabia. We cannot hide from the truth just because we like one country over the other. Yes, being gay is worse in stricter countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran. And I will do My take on those countries later. But this one will be about our European neighbor.

Growing up I admired Russia, their beautiful people, and fascinating culture. I would still like to visit the country and learn to speak Russian. I'm sure the country is great and open minded in many ways although they are still living in the past when it comes to Homosexuality.

I've seen a few documentaries in Russia about homosexuality. There are many groups who set up fake accounts on gay dating websites only to kidnap to gays they meet them, brutally beat and humiliate them on social media. How is this acceptable in any means?

Honestly, I criticize America a lot but compared to other countries around the world I am happy to live here and Grateful that we have freedom here. Freedom to live our lives how we want.

It is not illegal to be gay in Russia but it is illegal to display any type of support of the LGBT community publically. For example: Walking down the street with a Pro-LGBT sign and a rainbow flag. The 2013 so-called "anti-gay propaganda" law Vladimir Putin passed is a clear violation of human rights and impingement of freedom of speech.

Here is a social experiment of walking around gay in Russia.

There is no logical reason why gays and transgenders should not deserve the same rights as straight people.

A common argument is that Gay and Transgender is a Mental Illness. Based on what? There are many institutions that have moved from those positions. The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition." https://www.livescience.com/55554-transgender-identity-classification.html

You will encounter many conflicting articles by physiatrists and biologists on whether this is a mental disorder online. Science on this topic is still developing.

Another common argument is that Being gay is not natural. It is natural because humans are animals and we are part of nature. In addition, over 1500 species of animals have been observed in the wild expressing homosexual behavior. Ranging anywhere from Dragonflies, penguins, bonobo monkeys, to Lions.

Putting these arguments aside. I believe All Humans gay or not deserve the same right to express who they are without being harassed or facing violence. This bigoted behavior is unacceptable. We need to help our Russian neighbors to overcome these misconceptions about the LGBT community and advance into the 21 century. I would invite anyone who is against gay rights to come to an LGBT parade and see the happiness in people's faces and the love. Getting to know one another is a great way to challenge pre conceived notions.

My hope is for all countries to step into modern times and realize life is short and it is a waste to spend it on hating each other.

[Eugene]

Ah, typical propaganda. I wonder if I'll ever see anything original about my country. Well, at least now we're also praised for being best hackers ^__^

In any case, I usually do wonder as to why folks from the West think we should join them on a homo hype train.

Let me explain: in my opinion, a cult of praising/promoting homosexuality, transsexuality and other sorts of lunacy that's currently taking place in the West has only negative effects on society with zero positive. It's better if we'd allow the West to run this experiment on themselves and their own children and see how it works.

If it'll work well (which I doubt), we learn fast.
If it won't change a thing, then why would we need to adopt something that's useless?
If it changes things to the worst (most likely outcome), then it's a good thing we didn't adopt it.

Think of it like testing new product on someone else before being sold to the public. Only in this case I see LGBT as a product and Western society as guinea pig.

[SeraBarton]

So you're in support of killing gay people? Forcing them to live in fear and in hiding?

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton your question is somewhat stupid & appears to contain some weird subtext, especially considering that I believe I've explained my stance on the question rather well.

On a side note, in case you're unaware, killing someone is illegal in Russian Federation (we don't even have the death penalty I think since 1997, unlike some of your states), regardless if the victim is normal or homosexual.

[SeraBarton]

But it's not about something "working well" and then adopting it, it's about giving people the freedom to be who they are because they have a right to be just as safe and free as you do. You just avoided the whole problem that gay people are being condemned by the Russian government, being made into institutionalized outcasts.

So how about saying "I don't agree with homosexuality but they don't deserve to be treated like that and holy shit we need to do something about people beating up others in broad daylight and getting away with it? Your post was callous and uncaring so I called you out on it alright?

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton I see the propaganda works well, especially towards folks that clearly have little or no knowledge on actual Russian Federation at all.

On your point "freedom to be who they are": this can also be applicable to pedophiles, zoophiles, necrophiles etc., using your logic.
On government: homopropaganda towards minors (under the age of 18) is forbidden. Nothing else is.
On condemning: folks are free to condemn/accept whoever they want (this leads back to point #1 you've made). If their activity goes against our laws (i. e. violence), government will act accordingly (fines/prison, depending on the issue).

Your points are void and uninformed, and I called you out on it, alright?

[echoaj]

yeah because anything that challenges your worldview or flawed way of thinking is propaganda right? Meanwhile, Media in Russia is state-owned.

Go back before 1967 and people like you would say the same thing about interracial marriage. It's propaganda, praising interracial marriage is wrong, and people would make excuses and there would be severe discrimination.
Why would you even care if two people of the same sex get married? It has nothing to do with you. Plus this my take is about discrimination and bigots disturbing the peace by assaulting gays. There is no excuse for violence toward minorities in a civilized society.

[SeraBarton]

I'm sorry who's uninformed? Two people of the same gender loving each other consensually is NOT THE SAME AS FUCKING ANIMALS OR CHILDREN YOU IDIOT. Apparently the propaganda works well in your fucked up country.

[Eugene]

As for interracial marriage: while I don't see it as a problem per se, it should be noted that according to your own US researches, it's noted that interracial marriages tend to end in divorce more often; divorce, as is well-known, has a negative impact on children. Just sayin'.

As for "doesn't affect me": it does, but not in a direct way as you can imagine; there are many points that I can bring, but it'll take way more than 1 reply to mention them all: in short, however: it can possibly sabotage reproduction of the country, influence further generation, lead to demoralization of the army/navy and in overall lead to different negative cultural, political and population effects.

Why not test it all on the West first and see how it goes?

[Eugene]

As for "violence against minorities": as already mentioned before, violence against another person is illegal in Russian Federation, therefore if caught/proven, a person may face either fines or prison time, depending on the situation and damage done.

I do start to wonder if you even read responses.

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton I fail to see a reasonable reply from your side to my dismissal of your rather empty arguments.

As for your statement "Two people of the same gender loving each other consensually is NOT THE SAME AS FUCKING ANIMALS OR CHILDREN YOU IDIOT.", I can basically use same logic for groups I've mentioned. Besides, a corpse doesn't even has to give an agreement, as it doesn't care, don't you think?

Unless you have some valid points to bring, please don't bug me.

[SeraBarton]

i hope not everyone in Russia is as pig headed and narrow minded as you. Please, just take a moment to think about what it would be like in a twilight zone world where the government told you it was socially unacceptable to be straight, where you have to hide your feelings from the world out of fear someone would shove bottles up your ass or bash your head in for being a degenerate straight person. You have no idea the pain your worldview causes and I think you're a mean and bigoted person.

I have 2 moms ok, and they love me and my brother every bit as much as your parents love you. They teach me to try and understand people's differences and to try and make the world better for everyone including people I personally disagree with. Please take a minute and really think about what your views say about your intolerance. I hope you find it in your heart to not hate people for something as harmless as loving a person who happens to be the same gender.

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton your scenario where it's "socially unacceptable to be straight" would result in a country dying within few generations due to lack of reproduction, variety of illnesses passed and extreme degeneration of the society. That's counter-productive and no government ever would support something like this, unless it's some sorts of "alternative reality".

Again, you bring no other argument than typical "bigotry". That's not how debate work.

Besides, I said I hate someone. Maybe you can find it in my replies?

If you wish to debate, you need to calm down first and get your head cool, as of right now you're acting on emotions and therefore you're not doing a particularly good job at debating.

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton dang it, typo:
Didn't* said I hate someone; perhaps you can find it where stated it in our one-sided argument?

[SeraBarton]

It's not a debate, people have rights and you want a certain group of people to not have access to those rights because you think they're bad for society.

Remind you of someone? Perhaps a certain German who said Jews couldn't be trusted, were inherently greedy and bad for society? by the way do you want to know which demographic has the least aids? Gay women. Diseases are pathogens anyway they are curses that tell you which people are evil. By you're logic kids with smallpox should be suppressed by society.

Look I get it, you weren't raised like I was, you live in a society where standing up for the rights of gay people will get you ridiculed or worse, so why would you have ever become the kind of person who accepts people? So most of it isn't really your fault to be honest, but please consider what I've said, and instead of seeing orgies and aids when you think of gay people, both of which straight people have and do, see just a normal person trying to live their life. Goodbye.

[SeraBarton]

Aren't curses😅See we all make typos and none of us are better than everyone else.

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton I fail to understand at to what you're getting it; someone dislikes homosexuals, someone's neutral. A witch hunt is in your imagination, let alone a genocide; it's what you wish to see it, which isn't necessarily connected to reality. Besides, usage of "ad Hitlerum" ( https://goo.gl/bWabzH ) generally points at lack of proper arguments.

Standing for someone's "rights" as you put it won't get you "ridiculed or worse" in my country as long as you can back up your statements. So far you're using only emotions and very vague knowledge on situation in Russian Federation, hence you'd be ridiculed for not being able to hold a debate and using broken logic.
I believe it's just you who got used to that in US everyone bends over (no pun intended) to anyone that just yells the loudest (LGBT community).

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton and I genuinely fail to see something "to consider". You haven't showed anything but emotions so far, while your weak arguments were nullified in the discussion.
Yet you were unable to counter my argument; well, unless getting emotional is your counter-argument.

Have a good night, it's quite late here.

[SeraBarton]

I believe I see the problem then, you simply have no emotions. that would explain quite a lot wouldn't it.

[echoaj]

Dude all claims you bring up come from thin air. You give zero sources.
"it can possibly sabotage reproduction of the country"
1) based on what evidence? How does letting two gay people get married do this?
"lead to demoralization of the army"
2) How does letting two people marry affect how the military operates. Makes no sense at all.
" lead to different negative cultural, political and population effects"
3) how? If anything our culture is more inviting open minded and kind to one another based on my experience. Give me sources from trusted media sites that demonstrate this phenomenon and gives accurate statistics.

And My point was not about legal ramifications on whether it is ok to use violence against minorities. My point is the ethical issues of a society that is so brainwashed to hate gays that they use violence as a form of retaliation instead of debate. I would say those who choose to be violent are highly irrational and immoral. Wouldn't you agree?

[Eugene]

1. & 2.) It does; there are plenty of debates on this topic, mainly concerning US military: https://goo.gl/fAMJ9P and https://goo.gl/8WT0ch
Also note that the general (1st link) was expelled because of his views alone -- great job! Losing a general for such dumb reason already harms the military. Well, in case of Western armies it's good, but it definitely wouldn't be good if that'd happen with us.
Sure there are plenty of "researches" that state it doesn't harm anything, but I believe there's no smoke without fire.

As for sources on #3, I doubt I'd be able to provide them in English. The only exception is https://goo.gl/xU57dr

I disagree with "brainwashed to hate gays": quite otherwise -- homosexuality is repulsive by default, while folks in the West are taught to "accept it".

In any case, why you're so angry we just prefer to use your nation as guinea pig?

[Eugene]

@SeraBarton oh, I do have emotions. I just don't let them overwhelm common sense when it comes down to important topics and decisions.

In any case, considering severe decline in ethics/morality, reproduction of native population (especially in EU) and overall harmful tendencies in the West (such as "safe space" culture in the USA), I do believe so far we're doing it right by refusing to adopt the same insanity the West does. I suppose we should observe them for next few decades and then come to conclusions, especially considering they're so happy to roll up their sleeves when it comes down being a test subject to controversial and potentially dangerous decisions concerning the very core existence of their countries.

I fail to see anything wrong with that.

[echoaj]

You call these good sources? One of them is a letter to congress. Posted by a nonscholarly source https://www.americantraditions.org "who's "about" page clearly states this is a website to promote "Christian values." And here is the major flaw in the opinion piece. All those statistics about homosexual assaults in the military happened from 2008 - 2009 before don't ask don't tell was repealed (2011). That's a fail. Second, you don't seem to worry about the Heterosexual rape in the military. That should equally be taken as seriously.

The second article barely even talks about homosexuality. It's mainly claims of Christians who feel disenfranchised in the military under Obama's term. The author expresses her worries of them becoming Atheists. The entire article revolves around quotes from Micheal Berry who is a conservative radio host. The whole thing is about what one guy had to say.

[echoaj]

The third article is the worst one. It leads readers to believe it is a scientific site about homosexuality when really it is a blog who articles are written by an unknown group named CONSERNEDSGCITIZENS. I even found the exact same content word for word on another blog website called nariland. com this time posted by someone named Tgirl4real. Anyways, The link you gave me lists 7 points about gays. Three of which the sources provided no longer exists or are not there. The only one remotely interesting is the abstract that determined that homosexuals reported higher rates of homosexual molestation as children than heterosexuals did. The Abstract also added it was the survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. which indicate other surveys found otherwise. But they do suggest more future research.

[echoaj]

Then 2 of the 7 points are obvious. Aids and drug use are serious issues within the LGBT community. Especially since gays have been rejected by loved ones, many of them feel like outcasts and therefore suffer depression which leads to drug use. Aids was an epidemic in the 80s but luckily aids rates have decreased by 19% overall from 2005 - 2018.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/
So those two claims are true and I personally believe there is more work to be done to combat those issues.

Despite everything I just was written, none the 7 points listed by that article are arguments against gay marriage.

Also, I'm not angry.

[Eugene]

Even before I began, I have stated that it'll be quite hard to find good articles about the topic in English language; I believe one of the main reasons is severe censorship and negative consequences for agencies/websites/etc. that tend to criticize the cult of homosexuality worshipers (see, another negative aspect!). There are plenty of discussions on this topic in Russian infospace, where both sides can state whatever they want (such barbarism, isn't it? So undemocratic).

Plus, I have no idea what "reliable source" means to you. I mean, you have folks that genuinely do believe we have hacked your elections and make statements "we haz proof but we ain't showin' it"; how do I know to which camp you belong?

"But they do suggest more future research":
Exactly; so if it's unknown course with unpredictable outcomes, then why should we introduce it, instead of observing it's development in countries that have decided to run such experiment on their own population?

[echoaj]

I like how you make these all these assertions then back pedal using the excuse "it'll be quite hard to find good articles about the topic in English language." ok man whatever.
It's not about what a "reliable source" means to me.
If you are unsure if a source is credible or reliable you could do a quick google search to find out. This is good.
www.easybib.com/.../
https://uknowit.uwgb.edu/page.php?id=30276

I make no claim on whether Russia hacked the election and that is off topic.
Anyways I'm going to sleep. see ya

[Eugene]

Have a good night sleep and thank you for being a test subject to controversial policies. We'll continue to observe the process from the side.

[echoaj]

That doesn't even make sense but ok. bye

[skinnyguy]

@SeraBarton Gays are not welcome in Russia. Russia is White. I hope Russia will one day liberate us from PC culture!

[SeraBarton]

I don't understand how people can be so hateful😭😭😭😭

Please for the love of God just let people be who they want to be and love who they want to love.

[Blitzkrieger]

Do you know the prevalence of aids amongst gay men? Its really sickening.

If the lgbt club wants to be normalized they should act like normal human beings instead of going on a parade and acting like hedonistic animals. But the lgbt club won't tolerate this critique. aren't they all about acceptance? It seems not.

[echoaj]

Yeah, and you know all the other STD like chlamydia and gonorrhea that straight people spread around? It's really sickening.
Why don't they stop acting like animals?

Bro this isn't even an argument. My point is we should treat each other with respect instead of beating up people we don't understand. Freedom to marry who we want dawg. They just want the same right you have dawg without facing violence. But for you that is too much to ask for right?

[Blitzkrieger]

The moment gays stop being such a burden for healthcares systems with their aids and if they stop protesting like apes at "parades" then yes. The only thing they do is disturb public peace.

They know aids is spread easy through anal sex yet refuse to wear condoms, the risk of aids in gay sex is significantly higher than in straight sex. Gays are a burden for healthcare systems as they need a lot of expensive care. Why should everybody pay for the irresponsibilities of gays? The are a minority yet make up the majority of aids patients. Unnaceptable.

And you are right, it is not an argument, it is critique. Knowing the difference between the two for you is too much to ask right?

I dont have a problem with gays but their irresponsible aids spreading sex pattern typical to gays i do have a problem with.

[echoaj]

"The only thing they do is disturb the public peace." I would say going up to gays harassing them punching them in the face like in this videos is disturbing the public peace. wouldn't you?

Straight men have twice the obesity rates as gay men. Wouldn't you say those straight men are a big burden to our health care? Oh but you say nothing about that.

"I don't have a problem with gays but their irresponsible aids spreading sex pattern typical to gays I do have a problem with." yep don't believe you. What about the Irresponsibilities of straight men impregnating women, leaving the child, impregnating more women and populating our world. Those are Huge burdens on our society. wouldn't you say?

My Point: PEOPLE regardless of sexual orientation have some burden on society one way or the other. Doesn't mean we should restrict each other's human rights.

[echoaj]

The point of this My Take is about discrimination against gays and how that is unacceptable. Instead of focusing on that specific issue you use the argument "but gays spread aids." That is true but what does that have to do with anything. You use this argument as a way to paint them in a negative light there for justifying the violence against them. It's a way to avoid talking about the issue at play.

It's like you saying we should help homeless veterans and me saying "but they do drugs and act like animals." It's a way to deflect from the issue.

What you are using is the Ignoratio elenchi fallacy.

[Blitzkrieger]

Actually i am critising gays, they must become more responsible if they want to be accepted. It is only natural that the majority will not accept the existance of a minority group if they are such a burden. I agree that these obese straight men are a burden as well, it is outright degeneracy and self abuse of the body. I dont justify violence against gays. I am just saying that they should adapt their ways if they wish to be socially accepted, this goes for many more people, not only gays. I have ADHD it is stigmatized and unnacepted, i must adapt my ways as well if i wish to be accepted in society and if i want to get somewhere in life.

The lgbt club wants to be normalized so they must understand that a group can't be normalized and at the same time maintain its special treatment from society. They are no different from the aristocraticy. Both of them are a club with an elitist mentality that can only accept a certain select members, in the context of lgbt it are people with a deviant

[Blitzkrieger]

Sexuality. If they want to be considered normal they must act like it or remain in obscurity.

[Dipsy]

Well I don't really mind them marrying and all that stuff, if they please don't hold all those parades.
Why would they need those parades (in the West) if they already got all the rights straight people have?
I mean, it's not that they're convincing me, "oh those gay people are actually quite normal..!", no they actually create an even more distance from me personally with all that excessive parade half naked stuff. Ugh..

[echoaj]

Then don't go to a parade. Problem solved.

[Dipsy]

What if the parade comes to you? (either irl or a lot via internet)

[echoaj]

then sad day for you.

[KLTheErudite7229]

It does not matter where you go, you will (may) always find people who are against homosexuality.
I personally do not believe there is such thing.
I do not support homosexual marriage or will I ever want to go to one.
I do not hate gays either and will not go on the "pride parade" thing.
It takes one mother and one father to make a child, the homosexuals adopting babies speaks for itself, it is against the norm of nature.

[echoaj]

so you don't support gay marriage but I take it you don't mind if they get married either right?
homosexuality is part of nature. humans are part of nature and homosexuality occurs in other animals.

[KLTheErudite7229]

No, not in my life. I don't support homosexuality or their marriage and do not want to go. It is not natural.

[echoaj]

but it is natural. It occurs in nature, therefore, it is natural. They just want the same rights as you bro.

[KLTheErudite7229]

Two women or two men cannot make a child- it is unnatural. If you know middle school/high school level science, you should know this. They have right to live and is given, but ranting at a "pride parade" is chaotic. I wouldn't support the straights if they start chaos like that or attacks homosexuals. It sounds very fair to me.

[LoveHorses]

I used to hate gays or anyone who was not staright. Than I grew up and started to step into their shoes. I was just a kid, but it's distubing to see adults being assholes to someone who is gay, lesbian, bi sexual, or transgender.

Who cares if they like the same sex, they're still humans and should be treating with respect. Also, they should have the same rights as straights in every country.

[bubbletrouble]

yeah its bad lol. dudes can just be holding hands and other guys will just beat him up but lesbians can kissing right there in the street and no one will say anything however the reason Russian men act this way because there's a shortage of Russian men well eastern European men period (due to war and killing themselves with vodka) so if he is gay on top of that, then shit.

[Unit1]

That's why you shouldn't relocate or live in countries like Russian, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt etc...
Just relocate to the USA, where freedom was preserved the most of all and live happily ever after.

[HeckYeah]

I'm straight, but my girlfriend is bi sexual and my sister is a lesbian. Makes me sick that there is still hated towards the LGBT community in the 21st century. Should we left that behind couple decades ago?

[lime_rampljuset]

People have been give more freedom than they deserve, that's why the world is so fucked up.

[LivingLife94]

I'm bi sexual and Russia makes me sick. Why hate someone who has a different sexuality from you?

[Anonymous]

It's not only in Russia, in my high school for exemple a gay find all his school furniture in the girl toilets and guys put his head in a WC. people were laughing

[echoaj]

terrible. what is a wc? and where do you live?

[Opinion Owner]

A wc is that upload.wikimedia.org/.../...Toilettes_mg_3872b.jpg

I though it was how you say it since it's an English word

[echoaj]

but what does wc stand for. I live in the USA. You must live in England. We just say toilet over here

[Opinion Owner]

It mean water closet, I live in France but we use a English word. the same go with parking it's an English word but in USA they use car park

[echoaj]

lol no one in the USA says car park. Everyone here says Parking.

[Opinion Owner]

Must be in England then.

[John_Doesnt]

It's illegal for a reason, so Putin stands a better chance in the dating world.

[ColinHarvey]

BLAHHH BEING GAY IS ILLEGAL BLAHHH PUTIN CONTROLS RUSSIA EHHHHBLAH BLAH HOMOPHOBIC SEXISSS BLAAAH

[harabi]

Russians are no less barbaric than rest of Asia. They culturally do not belong to white and civilised Europe

[skinnyguy]

Being gay is equal to being wild, uncivilized.

[Anonymous]

Wow definitely another way to understand gay community.

[skinnyguy]

I don't think Russians need this, gays are not welcome in Russia and will never be.

[MrDetermined]

There will always be a minority of people who will cause hate.

[Dred1614returns]

Probably isn't pretty.