The Great Debate: Experiences With Feminism

[powerwoman]

Hey all—I’m relatively new to this site, but I have already noticed certain attitudes towards liberal causes—esp. Feminism—which seem decidedly hostile. Obviously, this isn’t unique to this site, but still I thought opening a discussion here might help.

To me, movements like feminism are overwhelmingly positive—they are, after all, focused on equal rights-- by definition.

I have noticed some backlash, however, nothing crazy, just enough to suggest that people have had bad experiences with feminism.

The funny thing is that a lot of these people actually believe in equality—they are therefore, by my definition at least, feminists. They’re very reluctant to call themselves feminists, however, which I find troubling. I myself am proud to be a feminist, and I’m genuinely hoping to hear your perspectives on the topic.

Personally, I don’t understand why it’s so controversial. As far as I can tell, most of the problems stem from a lack of communication. My personal theory is that most of the exchanges go something like this:

· Person A says “I am a Feminist.”

· Person B hears “I hate men.”

· Person B says “I am not a Feminist. Feminism is bad.”

· Person A hears “I am opposed to equal rights, and look down on women.”

· Person A is understandably offended. Lashes out.

· Person B feels attacked. Is turned off to Feminism forever.

· Neither Person A nor Person B understand each other. Feminism becomes a dirty word. Nobody really communicates or learns anything.

I’d like to address this. What do you guys have to say—I’d really appreciate hearing from you, no judgement.

Do you consider yourself a feminist? Why or why not? Are you open to feminism? What sort of experiences have you had with feminism, that sort of thing.

Please, whatever happens, let’s try to keep the forum civil. Thanks!

[BlueCoyote]

First of all: thank you and kudos for being so calm and mature about this. Most people on GaG aren't capable to talk about feminism like normal adults.
Personally, I consider myself a feminist and I don't shy away from the label. There's nothing bad about it. Feminism has ALWAYS meant equality. There has been no change in meaning as some people claim. The ONLY people who equate feminism with misandry are, ironically, those who already hated feminism in the first place.
Are there sexist women who hate men? Of course there are. However, those women are a tiny minority and do not represent 3.5 billion human beings. Claiming that all feminists are men-haters is just as stupid as claiming that all Republicans are racists. Many Republicans hate to be called racists - yet they don't shy away from throwing mud at other people in the exact same way.

In my case, there is no specific reason why I am a feminist. I've neither made particularly good nor particularly bad experiences with women. However, I have grown up in a country and a society where the equality and fair treatment of women is categorized under "duh!". It's just not a big controversy. Women should be treated with decency and respect like anyone else. When I hear about shit like what's happening in Russia, where the government recently legalized domestic violence against women and thousands of women die every year due to domestic violence, I am utterly disgusted. And I see enough cases of discrimination in the western world too.

Just like you, I fail to understand the controversy in this topic. Feminism is not like atheism or communism, which are linked to specific ideas (philosophical or political). It's just as uncontroversial as saying "I am for the fair treatment of animals". WHAT ON EARTH is controversial about that? I don't get it. Sure, we may disagree on certain issues. I am not a SJW in that I also see the discrimination against men. However, this doesn't eliminate the fact that sexism against women exists.

[powerwoman]

Thanks for the great comment-- really made my day!

[Kirah]

If feminism doesn't hate men, then why do feminist organizations still support the Duluth Model?

[BlueCoyote]

@Kirah I am not American, so I can't talk with enough knowledge or expertise about some American program. However, I don't think it is a mistake to fight domestic violence.

[Kirah]

@BlueCoyote fighting DV is good, but the way the Duluth Model approaches it is wrong.

The Duluth Model basically says that women cannot be the aggressors. So if there is ever a DV situation, cops are forced to arrest the man, even if he is the victim.

[BlueCoyote]

@Kirah Well, while I disagree with the statement that men are "always" the aggressors, as a man, I have to say that in at least 95% of all cases, the man is the aggressor. Claiming something else would simply be some strange form of postfeminist political correctness (defending men more than they deserve). In order to see that this is so, you need to look no further than to Russia. In Russia, the government has recently "legalized" domestic violence. Even if you beat a family member viciously and that person has to go to the hospital, all you get is a tiny fine of about 50 bucks. The ultra-conservatives in Russia and the Orthodox Church defend this new law by saying that "the government should stay out of people's lives". In reality, However, that's not the true reason this law was made of course. Every year, THOUSANDS of Russian women die at the hands of abusive husbands. Those who don't are often deeply traumatized and sometimes physically mutilated. Now guess how many men (cont.)

[BlueCoyote]

have fallen victim to this law. I don't know the numbers but I would bet a lot of money with you that it's a negligible number.
Of course we can have a discussion about why men are usually the aggressors and there are sometimes good reasons. But this doesn't take away the fact that DV aggressors are almost always men. Just like terrorists are almost always political or religious extremists.

[BlueCoyote]

Same with pedophilia or rape by the way. Some men activists love to point out that there are also female rapists and female pedophiles. Sure. I would never deny that. There are also pink dolphins and albino humans. But let's be real. When you hear that a pedophile abused a child, your first mental image usually isn't a woman. And there's a good reason for that.

[Kirah]

@BlueCoyote you are sorely mistaken. 70% of non-reciprocal domestic violence is perpetrated by women (!). Therefore, the Duluth Model makes no sense, and the notion that the man is almost always the aggressor is wrong.

[BelleMmichelle]

@Kirah Where are you getting your statistics and from what country? I agree that saying the male is almost always the aggressor is wrong... but generally speaking, according to statsCan, men are the primary perpetrator.

[Kirah]

@BelleMmichelle the US. It's from a study done by Harvard Medical.

docs.google.com/.../edit?usp=sharing

[BlueCoyote]

@Kirah While I don't necessarily doubt your numbers, I do find it hard to believe that. I currently don't have time to read the entire paper you referenced but I'm rather curious whether these numbers could be explained by a factor we don't take into consideration (such as the violence of women being rather verbal than physical/sexual etc.). Common sense just doesn't seem to allow this. Like I told you, an estimated 15,000 Russian women die every single year at the hands of their husbands and I doubt this number is anywhere close for men. Surely, things aren't as bad in the US. But still, I can think of my own relationship and question these numbers. I'm an average guy. I'm one head (8 inches) taller than my girlfriend and about 90 pounds heavier. If she hit me in a fight, it'd certainly hurt but I'd probably be okay. I on the other hand could break her jaw with a single punch. This makes me question how women could be the main aggressors, given their clear physical inferiority.

[Kirah]

@BlueCoyote the answer is, this statistic applies to non-reciprocal domestic violence (where the victim does not fight back).

You shouldn't dismiss something just because a study contradicts your beliefs.

[BlueCoyote]

@Kirah I didn't dismiss it, I just said I find it hard to believe. Also, the very fact that men don't fight back means that the abuse can't be life threatening or very serious. If somebody tried to rape me or if somebody punched me with serious force, you bet I'll fight back. I won't just lie down and let myself be abused. And I'm sure most other men feel that way too. However, if a (hypothetical) girlfriend kicked my leg or tried to push me, I'd probably just get pissed. Obviously, domestic violence is never okay, so I'm not trying to whitewash female violence. But you can't really equate a woman trying to push or slap her husband and a guy coming home drunk and beating his wife black and blue. If women actually were as dangerous for men as men are for women, you can be dead sure men would defend themselves and fight back.

[Kirah]

@BlueCoyote just because someone doesn't fight back, doesn't mean they aren't in danger. A lot of men don't fight back, over fear of getting arrested as the abuser instead.

[BlueCoyote]

@Kirah I don't see how such a trial would be successful. A judge would need to prove that the woman was the major or sole aggressor because the husband would be "innocent until proven guilty". In this scenario, it would be a classical he-said-she-said. Besides, being physically stronger and not defending yourself in a seriously dangerous situation goes against basic human nature. No man would just keep sitting on the couch while his wife beats him with a baseball bat.

[Neverrrmore]

Feminism is just pointless in the States. So I don't support it or care for it because it isn't about equality here. We are already equal. Not only that but women get special treatment when it comes to jobs and testing. They get easier physical requirements than men. They get hired because they have a vagina. Say a man and woman are at a company and having an affair, the man gets fired, the woman gets a transfer. The wage gap doesn't exist. It's just not needed here. It's a joke at this point.

[powerwoman]

I'm glad that you haven't experienced sexism. That said, I disagree. When you think about gender inequalities in the workplace (esp in STEM fields), unfair standards of beauty, frankly shocking sexual violence and abuse stats, etc. I do see a real need to support other women.
Thank you for sharing your viewpoint, though, it is appreciated.

[Neverrrmore]

If you look at stats for STEM fields I believe it was only computer science and engineering that had a lower percentage of women but everything else was close to 50%.

And yep! = )

[Kirah]

@powerwoman what kind of inequality do women face in STEM fields? Just because there are less women in STEM, doesn't mean that it's necessarily a problem. My college practically laid out the red carpet for me, just because I'm a woman. If that isn't enough encouragement, I don't know what is.

Also, what abuse stats? You do realize that 70% of non-reciprocal domestic violence is committed by women, right?

[powerwoman]

@Kirah Domestic abuse is an issue that affects both men and women, I'm not saying it isn't. I also know that sexual abuse affects everyone. I would never discredit a victim. But I also believe that rates of sexual abuse reveal something telling about our society, and that this is relevant and must be addressed.
Making STEM careers accessible to women is a sort of affirmative action technique. I don't always agree with how it's implemented, but I do see the value in addressing the gender gap here.

[Kirah]

@powerwoman in what way would "addressing the gender gap" help? Women get the red carpet treatment if they want to go into STEM. Let's face it, most women just don't *want* to go into STEM.

If you want to go any further than that, you have two options: either force women into STEM, or start hiring people based on their gender (rather than their merit). Both of those options are awful.

[NatashaJ]

Feminism also fights for abortion rights and for Transgender rights and safety so your saying that women who wants abortions and transgenders don't need feminism?

[Neverrrmore]

@NatashaJ I don't believe in abortions so I definitely will not support that "right". As for transgender, well here is just one example of how feminist feel about that from a quick google search "By extension, when trans women demand to be accepted as women they are simply exercising another form of male entitlement.". There are many articles on that. I'm also pretty certain that the LGBTQ fights for them. So yeah again, it isn't needed here in the States.

[NatashaJ]

Just because your life is perfect in America doesn't make that true either. You also realize then enforcing your beliefs of abortion on everyone is not right in general. Unless your fine with abortion being a legal you just don't like it. But there many issues that many people faced that feminism fights back on. Some causes are stupid I will admit the "being able to be naked out in public is stupid" but having the right of mammograms are not stupid since I believe mammograms just recently got defunded and a senator was making jokes about it like its funny.

[NatashaJ]

true for everyone*

[Neverrrmore]

@NatashaJ you're welcome to your opinion, as I've stated it just isn't needed here in mine. It's just not, not 2017. And as for my thoughts on abortion I've already stated I don't support that, going any deeper would just be a total waste of time and energy because I'm not going to change your opinion, you're not going to change mine, so I'm not opening that door tonight. I haven't "forced my beliefs" onto anyone by not supporting abortion lol.

[NatashaJ]

Ok fair enough as long your not negative affecting people with that belief that you can do as you please.

[madhatters4]

i consider myself a feminist in that i believe in equality rights for women. I think a lot of the hostility towards feminism comes from the perceived notion that the majority of feminists are man hating people who want female superiority. however i think, just like with most movements that the vast majority of people are in favor of equality but there is a loud vehement minority that makes it seem like the radical notions of the movement are more of the norm than the exception

[Anpu23]

To me it's the actions of the political organizations that matter, the ones that control government funding, policies, laws and political discourse. The ones that decide what is tought in our schools, hr departments, and police academies.

That, to me, is feminism.

[madhatters4]

@Anpu23 i don't understand. feminism is a belief or ideology. it can be implemented on those large levels but also can be practiced by individuals. you or i can treat women as equals. government entities can enact or enforce laws that create better equality. the media can work to convey a world that reflects the feminist ideology. really feminism can be put to work everywhere... so long as it embodie the true nature of feminism which is purely equality for women to men.

[madhatters4]

you sort of make feminism out to be a institution. it's not it's a belief system that institutions and individuals can ascribe to and put into practice

[powerwoman]

I definitely agree! I think that a lot of people agree insofar as actual ideals are concerned (gender equality)... a lot of the issues arise due to simple misconceptions we have about each other. Thanks!

[Anpu23]

The Deluth model of domestic violence was created by a feminist think tank, the "Dear colleague letter" was created by feminist academia, the organization against domestic violence for women and children is the result of feminist lobbying, I could also list many "studies" that have directly effected legislation. I could also point out propaganda that is both government sponsored and feminist lobbying. Of course I could go on.

[Anpu23]

@madhatters4

[madhatters4]

@Anpu23 yeah you could point to a lot of stuff. sadly what you are pointing to is not accurate. but you have your opinion. i disagree. I have my opininon. you disagree.

we'll agree to disagree. or disagree to disagree. but either way i don't need to hear more

[Kirah]

This is not a loud minority. Organizations like NOW are in on the hate.

[madhatters4]

@Kirah and does NOW represent the majority? do they represent some 175 million americans? or some 3 billion people worldwide? no... so they are again a group that represents a minority of people

[Kirah]

@madhatters4 if you think that one of the biggest feminist organizations in the world "doesn't represent feminism", you are completely delusional.

So, where are all these "reaaal" feminists? Why aren't they fighting for men's issues? Why aren't they speaking out against the radicals?

I dare you to name 3 prominent feminists who are actively fighting for men's issues. I'll be waiting.

[madhatters4]

@Kirah did you watch any of the Women's march on washington in January? there was a large segment of it that discussed men's issues, lgbt issues, poverty issues, etc.

but speaking of NOW,
- Karen DeCrow was an attorney and president for NOW who was a huge MR proponent
- here's a long list of feminist organizations and their MRs platforms www.reddit.com/.../
-Janet Bloom is a know feminist with a blog who frequently advocates for MR's and works with the head of A Voice For Men
- Karen Straughan is a feminist with a relatively popular youtube channel who advocates for MR's. she works frequently with AVFM
- Sara Maddison is an australian author who has written extensively regarding issues women face... she has also authored several articles regarding MR's... she is a vocal supporter and adovcate for AVFM
- Helen Smith is forensic psychologists who has written and advocated extensively for both womens men's rights. she works frequently with AVFM

[madhatters4]

and there is Erin Pinzey who has worked extensively to promote feminist issues and in particular issues regarding domestic abuse... she is also a proud proponent of men's issues and frequently has collaborated with AVFM

you asked for 3. i gave you 6 as well as a site with many links to sites where feminists also advocate for men's issues. i also mentioned the women's march in January which also addressed issues men face (like family court issues, paternity leave, etc). so i'm sure you'll have some negative retort but the simple fact is MOST feminists believe in equality for all. you simply hear the voices of the loud, vehement radicals who falsely label themselves as feminists when in reality they aren't proponents of equality

[Kirah]

@madhatters4 Erin Pizzey is not a feminist. She literally said in 2009 that she "has never been a feminist". In fact, she constantly criticizes feminism for promoting hatred against men. Karen Straughan is also an anti-feminist.

Did you even do any research into these people at all?

[madhatters4]

@Kirah Karen Straughan actually does agree with many feminist issues but doesn't call herself a feminist. she disagrees with certain things some feminist advocate for (like the wage gap) but also does address issues like college assault of women. so sorry perhaps saying she is a feminist isn't totally accurate since she doesnt' call herself one... but when you advocate for issues regarding college campus rape you are advocating a feminist issue

erin pizzey stared one the best shelters for sufferers of domestic abuse. a major feminist position. she has come into conflict with more radical feminists but still is a feminist and never disavowed feminism, just those radical arms that tend to advocate more for female superiority rather than true feminism which is equality

sorry 2 of the 6 may not be tee-totaling feminist. don't think you need to be so condescending though. i'm being polite towards you so perhaps you could do the same

[madhatters4]

if a respectful back and forth can't occur then we can stop conversing entirely

[Lynx122]

feminists always say it's about equality when they wanna convince people to join their movement or when they wanna cover their ass, but it's not.
Feminism is about pushing their ideology and imposing their views even if it's lies and deception. Like the wage gap that is total bullshit but is still beeing spread everywhere.

The truth is women have equal rights in the western world.
I agree there are some things that should still be improved like for instantce in the U. S. there should be more clinics for women and better sex ed for both genders. But Feminists are grasping at straws for shit they can complain about. Feminists are attacking video games.

Instead of not buying something you don't like they have to invade a medium they don't even care about and start calling everything sexist. Every female gamer I've ever seen wishes they would piss off but they get media attention and make money and they get to play the victim their favorite pastime so they keep going.

If these people would actually go to countries where women don't have equal rights and do something about it I would respect them but insted they find more and more ridiculous things to whine about. If you have a victim mentality and always have an excuse for why you're not doinganything with your life then you will never succeed.
And also I've never seen feminists actually care about or do something about any issues affecting men. They always say that when they want to justify themselves but it's all bullshit.

The workplace deathrate is almost 95% men to 5% women. During the recession a lot of people lost their jobs so less men died on the job. The percentage of women went up because a lot of men got fired but there weren't more women dying. But many feminists wrte articles aout how this was a huge problem that more women were dying at work even though it was not the case.
That describes feminism perfectly right there. Find anything and everything you can related to women and complain about it and make it a big issue.

I used to be for feminism because I thought there was no harm in it and helping women was a good thing. Until I was 19. Then I found out all the lying, the misleading facts, the pointless causes, the hate, the dismissal of anybody who disagrees trying to smear them as sexist or interlaised mysoginy and all that bullshit. The PC culture it's all crap. I am totally anti feminist now and most girls don't seem to want anything to do with it either.

[powerwoman]

I myself enjoy gaming, and while I don't necessarily know that I would call discussions of gaming (and pop culture in general) not worthwhile, I totally see where you're coming from. There are for sure bigger issues, like the ones you mentioned-- i. e. healthcare.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.

[Lynx122]

No problem. I don't think discussing pop cultre is not worthwhile but there's a lot of wrong ways to do it in my opinion. First of all video games, movies etc. are entertainment, they're supposed to be fun and that's the main thing.

I don't think there's a lot of people have a problem with female leads for instance. I've read books with female leads and seen movies etc. I've never seen it as a issue at all. There have been successful movies like Alien or Mad Max Fury Road etc.

The problem is when you try to push your ideology on people through the movie and the casting. Like Ghost Busters as maybe the most famous example. We're gonna show the guys ! Girl Power! etc. None of the focus was on making a good movie and telling people it was gonna be fun. It was all about feminism. Showing the guys, girls will kick ass. The director literally said male comedians are not funny. And anybody who didn't like it was sexist.

[Lynx122]

Instead of making a fun movie that happens to have women in it, they made a female movie and then wanted to force people to like it or something. Nobody is obligated to like anything in the entertainment world, it's your job to attract people.
In video games it's the same thing.
First of all I think there are a ton of female leads in video games and the feminists just chose to ignore them. Just now there was Horizon Zero Dawn a game that I really liked and there are countless other examples. And it's also the same thing here. If you want change it has to happen organically from the inside and the first priority always has to be to make good games. Coming from the outside and pushing your ideology on people and criticising everything will not work. If they really care support the games that they like and don't buy the others. Trying to censor content because you don't like it is exactly why people hate sjws. There's freedom of expression and you're not dictators. It's a joke.

[powerwoman]

You raise an good point-- diversity is important, but it doesn't make you obligated to like some (in my opinion, mediocre) movie.
I didn't love the reboot myself, but honestly the discourse was absurd. On one side you had die-hard fans of the original acting like this was some sort of blasmephy /"ruined their childhood", and on the other people were acting like enjoying the movie was a moral obligation. I mean.
It's a movie, guys.

[Lynx122]

Yep true lol I guess people care too much ^^ tbh I used to love movies but now I only watch very few. When I first discovered them there was so many good ones I could watch that I hadn't seen yet but then I watched so many and now the new ones most are not that good so I moved on to other stuff :P. I still watch a few but it's a lot rarer ^^

[hellionthesagereborn]

Well you can claim the definition is what ever you want but if the actions do not match the professed definition then it doesn't matter. If a man tells you he is not racist then turns around and lynches some one of a different race, tries to push for laws that hurt some one based upon race and generally believes in the superiority of his own race and by extention the inferiority of anothers, is not racist or is he racist? Most would judge the man not on his word or what he professes to be but his actions. The same is true with feminism. Feminist have lobbied for inequality since the beginning, clearly you cannot push for and create inequality while being for equality. For instance NOW (National Organization for Women) actively lobbied against, and ultimately succeeded, for primary custody being awarded to the woman every time. They campaigned for laws to be changed so that this would be the end result thus our current situation of fathers having nearly no rights when it concerns their own children. Feminist lobbied for laws that gave women the right to abort a child without having to consult the father, fine but they then also demanded laws that forced the father to be obligated to raise that child against his will as well. So she can opt out whenever she wants and he is forced to take responsibility every single time, that is not fair or just she gets not only the power over her life and the childs but also his. Then you have the fact that a woman has the right to give a child up for adoption without even consulting the father meaning a man could watch as his child is legally ripped from him and have to spend massive amounts of money and time (years) to get his child back simply because the woman didn't want the child, again he has no say. This means that feminist took away fathers rights. Thanks to court rulings like Hermsmann vs seyer which ruled that no matter the circumstance a man is obligated to pay child support (in this case the man was a 12 year old boy who was raped by his babysitter) so now men do not even have a right to their own genetics, a woman can steal his sperm (as happened to a florida man when he had sperm at a sperm bank after a vasectomy just in case) and force him to pay child support, or again another man who was raped at the age of 14 by his 24 year old neighbor. This means men do not have reproductive rights. Again fought for by feminist, maintained by feminist.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Then you have the unfair laws like the violence against women act (previously the Duluth model of domestic violence) which essentially states that the woman is defacto victim and the man is defacto perpetrator/primary aggressor. These where pushed for and created by feminist even though statistically (according to the CDC and the NCVS) men are actually MORE likely to be victims of domestic violence then women are (70% of all non reciprocal violence between intimate partners is perpetrated by women, its 50% for reciprocal and out of those violence is a determinant of past and future violence for the woman but not the man heavily suggesting she instigated it with verbal abuse or controlling behavior (which women are also more likely to perpetrate) mean while their are significant amounts of hotlines and shelters for women funded by tax payers money but almost none for men (all hot lines send men to hotlines dealing with being the perpetuater of violence not the victim).

[hellionthesagereborn]

So how can feminism be for equality if all of its actions clearly show it is against equality? I mean do I go by what feminist say they are for OR do I go by what their actions show what they are for? Then of course you have the fact that feminism lies about pretty much everything (I don't think I have seen a single truth being told by feminist yet), either by telling half truths, taking things out of context or outright fabricating facts both current, historical, and statistical. Then you have the fact that women have substantially more rights then men (as I pointed out earlier), for instance women have the right to vote and to be a citizen as well as take out state and federal loans and grants, men do not have these as rights but as privileges that hinge on him signing a selective service card that contractually obligates him to go to war if the government decides its necessary (he also can't get a license either if he doesn't sign).

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yet feminism claims women have fewer rights, again provably false, and men have it easy (again provably false). Clearly women don't need more rights, men do which feminist do not fight for. Then you have historical facts which they ignore like how men also couldn't vote (in fact they only got the right to vote 67 years before women and that was solely because they could be conscripted into the military, police posses and search and rescues as well as in bucket brigades all of which where potentially life threatening and all of it against their will something women never had to do). Or how women couldn't own land even though they absolutely could and did, coveture only applied to married women and the reason why married women could not own land was because by marital contract the man was solely responsible for her well being as well as

[hellionthesagereborn]

responsible for her financially I. e. he would be the one who had to maintain the land and pay the taxes on it thus he had to have a say in how it was used. If she did not find that he was doing enough to support her financially she could divorce him and he would have to pay her and financially support her until his death or her remarriage through alimony. They claim women where never allowed to work but with very few exceptions a woman was allowed to have any job she wished as long as she could get it done (their are documents dating back to the 1300s of female blacksmiths among other things). So we know that what feminist say about men and womens rights are false, we know that what they say about historical "inequality" is false and we know that their claim of being for equality (as I showed) is false. So how can anyone, knowing this, be a feminist? The only way to be a feminist is to be a misandrist (with a unhealthy helping of misogyny). Ergo I am against feminism.

[roamer]

Too many facts and too much reality in here for this asker—great one btw—I don’t expect the asker to challenge this one and several others I see on here. Unfortunately the ones that need to read this and internalize it the most will most likely ignore it.

[powerwoman]

I do see what you're saying-- I don't think men should be obligated to raise unwanted children. Honestly, no one should. That's a huge reason I'm pro-choice. It would be hypocritical if I thought both.
I'm not sure that parallels to lynching/murder are entirely warranted, however. All the same, thanks for sharing.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I'm not saying they lynch I was just trying to prove a point that actions matter far more then words do and if you do your history you will see that feminisms words and their actions are entirely different. In fact they coopt other peoples work all the time. For instance women getting the right to vote was never because of feminist (originally calling themselves suffragettes) it was suffragists. In fact feminist/suffragettes only wanted white middle class women to have the vote. That's actually what sojourner Truths "ain't I a woman" speech was all about, pointing out that she was a woman just like them so why should she be barred from voting while they get that right? Feminist in fact didn't even care about the poor at all or blacks yet once second wave feminism came in they coopted what the suffragist did as something they did (in fact suffragettes commited minor terrorist acts like arson which many believed slowed down the process of women getting the federal right to vote).

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for pro choice I think that's is also misleading, again thanks to feminisms PR department. I mean, did the woman not have the choice to have sex to begin with? Did she also not have the choice to use the almost 20 different forms of birth control? Of course she did. So saying its pro choice implies that the woman is some how a victim of pregnancy (this is actually a very common psychological manipulation tactic used by advertising, propaganda, politics, and even every day discussions. Word choice gives certain impressions which result in emotional responses.) rather then having actively chosen to get pregnant or take the risk of getting pregnant. By calling it pro choice you then paint the other side as being anti choice or controlling/restricting a womans choices your being authoritarian. This creates this idea that the woman is some how the victim when in fact she made the choice to begin with (barring rape of course).

[hellionthesagereborn]

Now of course I am not particularly thrilled with the idea of people who are not fit to be parents raising kids but lets not act as if it was unavoidable because it very much was. This is also something feminism does, it portrays women as weak willed and incapable of being held accountable for their actions. Think about it, if you are pro choice then you are saying the woman should not be held accountable for her actions but you will also notice, as I pointed out, that we never treat men that way. In fact the biggest argument you will hear is that "he has to take responsibility for his actions" of getting her pregnant. That takes away the womans own need to be responsible for her actions it no longer was her choosing to have sex unprotected it was his, she stops being a person. That's why feminism is also anti-woman, because it refuses to acknowledge women as capable of making their own decisions.

[Exmorted]

I would never consider myself a feminist.
Feminism is an ideology built upon a single theory - that men have oppressed their women for all of time, and therefore men must be sociopaths and undeserving of their rights. Sure the moderates won't admit to believing that, which is why I prefer talking to the radicals, but you WILL turn the world upside down, rather than admit that this is what "patriarchy theory" amounts to. A society built by men, for men, to oppress women.

The theory itself is flawed, because no matter to which degree of feminism you subscribe, it acts as perfect justification for any action.

"it's fair to prioritize women over men in colleges, because women have been oppressed throughout history by men" comes from the moderates.
"It's fair to reduce men to 10% of the species and lock them in cages for milking, because women have been oppressed throughout history by men"
In both scenarios the justification is the same, and I do not like that theory, I find it flawed.

And I couldn't honestly give two whiffs of a lambs arse how many times you show me the dictionary definition, because you (if you are intellectually honest) will have to look at that definition and compare that to how self-proclaimed feminists act in society.

It's childish screaming and protest over speaking events they dislike, it's instating the progressive stack which prioritizes speakers at events based on their oppression points, it's advocating that members of one culture shouldn't be allowed to participate in another person's culture, it's advocating that women have unnecessary quotas for them to get into leadership jobs even if there are more qualified applicants, It's advocating a multicultural and open-borders society which has resulted in Countries like sweden being the rape capital of Europe.

It's advocating for a welfare state which tripled the national debt within the decade of its approval.
It's advocating non-issues (like the equal pay shit you got back in '63).
It's putting laws in place that can incriminate men of hate-crimes simply by looking at or talking to a woman, and according to the law, it's a crime if the woman feels it is (it's in nottinghamshire)

I have NEVER had a positive experience with a feminist, not even you, yes, you, the asker, because already before we've exchanged a "hello" you're trying to tell me what I am, you're trying to get me into a political ideology simply by sticking a label on my forehead.

If you're a feminist, I'm out.

[Discovery98]

First of all, thank you for acting like a reasonable person on this issue instead of a deranged dumbass like a lot of people female and male do. The problem comes along the fact that feminism isn't the sole solution to societies remaining issues of inequality. It is, despite what some people claim, not for men. That fact can be seen inside of the very definition. "... on the grounds of equality to men." The problem that occurs with this is that women ARE equal to men legally. What is required now is a societal change to fix things like the wage gap. The wage gap is actually a great example. It exists but not because men aren't willing to pay as much for the same amount of work. It exists because of choices and skills of women. Men, in general, are better negotiators. The way to fix that is to put more focus on teaching women those skills when they are young. Men, in general, don't take as much family leave. That could be fixed by allowing men paternity leave like women's which would be better for children but leaving work and having your child as a higher priority than work will always lead to missed opportunities to advance in your field. Another thing we can do as a society is pushing more women towards higher-paying fields such as the sciences and technology-based jobs. These jobs pay better than the jobs women choose in general. Feminism works for women. That doesn't mean it is misandrist but it definitely isn't helping men. Men have our own inequalities we need to work as a society to fix such as the abysmal rate at which fathers are allowed to have custody of their children. Men have a significantly higher suicide rate in comparison to women. Rape and sexual assault are considered such a massively vile act that anyone accused of doing it is basically guaranteed to have their lives go to shit forever more. That's good in most cases because there is good reason society views those crimes the way we do but we don't have sufficient protections in place to discourage false accusations. (Not mistaken ones but ones where the accuser knows they are lying). Men are rarely believed and often laughed at when they say they have been raped, which any feminist aware of their own rhetoric or how rape affects somebody knows is massively crushing. Just think about the fact that a rape joke will forever sour your public reputation as a comedian but "don't drop the soap" is a common joke. I'm running out of space so I'll continue this in a reply to myself.

[Discovery98]

MRA's advocate about these issues but are often seen as just if not more misogynistic than Feminists are seen as misandrist. As long as we continue to only fight for our own gender even as we try to tear down the other side for doing the same we will get nowhere. Being JUST a Feminist means you are either being ineffective or actually are part of the misandrist tumor in feminism. Being JUST a MRA means you are either ineffective or part of the misogynistic tumor in MRA. ( I would like to note that MGTOW is not part of that tumor. It is an entirely separate thing. They are people who just have given up on the system and don't associate with women on a romantic level or even sometimes sexual level. MGTOW has its own tumor of Misogyny but that tumor hardly covers most of that movement.) If you really want to promote equality you work with both groups. But if you are working on both sides of the gender divide on the issues than you are an egalitarian, congratulations.

[powerwoman]

Likewise-- and thanks for contributing!

[FakeName123]

1. Words =/= Actions. If I say I am a pacifist, but beat you to a bulb - then you naturally wouldn't consider me a pacifist. Thus the dictionary definition is pointless.

2. Feminism has no monopoly on what is considered equality. Just like it has no monopoly on womens rights. There are plenty of other movements trying to achieve either which are refusing the label feminism.

3. Feminism is toxic, vile and rotten to its core. Already the 60s movement had it's big names being full-on nutcases as you can see in the following quotes:

“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” ~Robin Morgan

“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” ~Valerie Solanas

“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” ~Andrea Dworkin

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” ~Susan Brownmiller

“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” ~Catherine MacKinnon

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” ~Sally Miller Gearhart

“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” ~Marilyn French

“I have a great deal of difficulty with the idea of the ideal man. As far as I’m concerned, men are the product of a damanged gene. They pretend to be normal but what they’re doing sitting there with benign smiles on their faces is they’re manufacturing sperm. They do it all the time. They never stop. I mean, we women are more reasonable. We pop one follicle every 28 days, whereas they are producing 400 million sperm for each ejaculation, most of which don’t take place anywhere near an ovum. I don’t know that the ecosphere can tolerate it.” ~Germaine Greer

[FakeName123]

“The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together…. Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process…. No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children… Families will be finally destroyed only when a revolutionary social and economic organization permits people’s needs for love and security to be met in ways that do not impose divisions of labor, or any external roles, at all.” ~Linda Gordon

[Khitaka]

Am I a Feminist? No. I'm a Buddhist. The main focus of your definition, is the "The advocacy of women's rights..." part. It's not just believing that men and women should have equal rights. It starts out with the belief that men and women are unequal and that women are on the lower end of that inequality.

In modernity that is just not the case. There is not a single right that men have that women do not, and in fact there are now more women in college than men and in 2011 at least, women made up 47 percent of the workforce, that being said, it is mostly older women, as again most women go to college at a young age, while men start off at work. So there is not a single legal right that women do not have that men do, or a social stigma preventing them from prospering socially or economically.

See, there have been two successful generations of Feminists. The first wave was in the 1920s. They redefined our suffrage system, so that any American citizen, regardless of sex, creed or color, could vote. The second wave of Feminism were the ones who tackled the social stigmas and who made it possible for women to have a chance at any job they'd like to have today. Except I guess male modeling. They were the ones who fought for equal wages between men and women. And they got it. It is illegal for an employer to pay a man more than a woman for the same work, at the same skill level.

But modern Feminism doesn't recognize that. It just kept on espousing those same issues as if their mothers never solved them for them.

So here is my experience with modern Feminism: because the real issues have all been solved it's mostly about spitting in the faces of cisgender, straight, white, men and building oneself up to be offended by everything. They cling to race and gender, and sometimes cause havoc and hatred for their clinging, but they do not know that these things mean nothing. They never did.

It was the Buddha who said to King Pasenadi "It is by living in common with a person that we learn of that person's moral character. It is only in conversation with a person that we learn of that person's wisdom and clarity of heart. It is only during times of trouble that we learn of another's fortitude; and then only if, having insight ourselves, we have paid careful attention for a long time."

You can't blindly throw people into categories and close them off in your mind, even if they are truly terrible. But especially not because of one's skin color, or their penis.

[samhradh_leannan]

This issue is near and dear to my heart, and it's refreshing to see more people shedding light on the utter discombobulation that currently defines the issue of feminism. While traditional feminism does focus on equal rights, treatment, and acceptance for women, it's also true that there are people and groups who call themselves feminists who have hateful, negative, misandristic views. Even some feminists who don't actually hate men are so overly focused on the issue of the "patriarchy" that they alienate men and fail to acknowledge that men have struggles as well. Unfortunately, the traditional feminists who truly value equality don't make as much noise. They still exist, but lots of people aren't even aware of it.

Because there is no single universally accepted definition of feminism, it's impossible for me to really say whether or not I consider myself a feminist. If we stick with the traditional, egalitarian definition of feminism, then I'm absolutely a feminist. But in this day and age, clinging to the old definition can cause more trouble than it's worth. That makes me sad, but I've started to accept it.

[powerwoman]

Thanks for contributing, interesting perspective!

[NatashaJ]

I do consider myself a feminist I just love the feminist haters who just show their true colours. Most of them on this site alone are just pieces of crap, who are clueless about actual issues well they know about seriously issues instead if it doesn't affect them they don't care. Honestly, I have seen how horrible people can be about feminism and for that I never want to ever date a man who thinks feminism is not needed or be friends with a woman like that. Recently I saw a picture of a guy pulling out his penis at a rally in Brazil and the comments on that picture (mostly men) were disgusting. Finding it funny how he pissing off feminists at this rally. When they don't realize that Brazil is having a massive sexual violence and sexual harassment issue so for this guy to go in this safe space and ruin it just proves the point that feminists in this rally were making. It's a pure example of disrespect for women and a lot of men who don't like feminism are not really helping their case that claim they don't mistreat women but are willing to laugh at the mistreatment of women.

[powerwoman]

For sure things can get ugly-- like, some people have been pretty reasonable, even if they aren't feminists they agree with equality (they just don't see feminism as representing that). I disagree with them, but there's nothing wrong with that.

And then I've gotten comments comparing feminism to violent hate groups, literally one person told me that feminism was a bunch of Jews trying to destroy civilization and it's sort of a lot. I welcome people expressing themselves. I don't need everyone to agree with me. At the same time, though, as a Jew am I really expected to treat antisemitism as a respectable opinion? Yikes.
Thanks so much!

[NatashaJ]

Thank you, and I agree that insulting to compare what happen to Jews to Americans today what the hell? I been called a victim loll whoever said that to you ^ trying to victimize himself.

[vampireelf]

Thanks for this article :) I think this negative picture of feminism is very strong in USA. I never noticed that many negative thoughts about feminism in Europe. USA is just very extreme in many things.
I dont get how anyone can not be a feminist. Its just a logical result of beliving in equal rights, human rights and democracy. I think we need even more radical feminism, because people just got too lazy, because things are not that bad anymore. Its still not perfect or good, but not bad enough to change something. That is a dangerous state.
But as I said, I think this is a special case in USA. I life in germany, and I dont know any woman who wouldn't call herself a feminist. And I'm glad about it. I was kind of shocked to see that people still think feminism is about crazy lesbians who hate men or such things. Feminism is the reason why women are allowed to vote. Without feminist movements in the past, many things that are normal today for women, wouldn't exist.
I hope for much more feminism in the future, and specially in other countries. But we can't bring feminism into other countries, when we dont believe in it ourself.

[powerwoman]

No problem--thank you for your comment! It was great to hear a perspective from another country, and I really appreciated the positivity!

[LogicBomber]

I will be civil but you still won't like it.
Feminism is NOT about equality regardless of what it's definition tells you.
Its actions are what show it's true nature. Feminism is a hate group at its core.
The biggest voices, its most famous and idolized role models have all been misandrist. Even massive groups like NOW have given awards to false rape accusers, shut down equal rights for fathers, etc.
Women had the right to vote, own land, and work LONG before feminism. The only positive things feminism claims they have done actually have nothing to do with feminism. They are simply the accomplishments of females.

But feminism does push a false victimhood in the west by using the actual issue of women in the east. Since it has no actual issues in the west to use.
Unless you count fabricated nonsense like wage gap and rape culture. Which can and have been shown as bullshit time and time again.

Feminism has started to indoctrinate children in grades 4 and 5 in social justice classes which are somehow permitted by the sexist feminist based school system. It does this because it needs to get the young girls to believe they are victims before they are smart enough to known better.

If you want proof of what feminism really is... tell one of your feminist friends that you no longer agree with feminism. You will quickly see just how hateful the group you love so much actually is.

Just as Cassie Jaye discovered when she told fellow feminist that her documentary originally set out to shame MRA's actually showed her the opposite and then all feminist went from supporting her to trying violently to silence her.

[Belgie]

The story of Cassie Jaye should be required reading in these feminist study classes. But it won't be because they are not interested in history or truth regarding their movement.

[powerwoman]

I do have some friends who don't describe themselves as Feminists. It isn't a huge issue, much in the same way that I have friends with different religious affiliations.
I do disagree with your assessment of Feminist history-- The Seneca Falls Convention, which is seen as the start of First Wave Feminism, was directly addressing women's suffrage, property rights, etc, which had not been resolved at the time.
I also think that rape culture shouldn't be dismissed-- it's possible that we're looking at different statistics, but the ones I see suggest a serious problem.
You're not wrong, however, to point out this culture of threatening dissenters-- I don't necessarily see this as unique to Feminism, in my opinion it permeates many movements, but still. This sort of hostility isn't constructive, for sure!

[LogicBomber]

The property rights back when first wave started had nothing to do with female or male, it was classist. Poor men were just as discriminated against as women. Women of power and wealth could own property and vote. The early feminist ignored those issues of men just as feminist of today do. They only act as though women are at a disadvantage, which in western society today is absolutely untrue. Women in the west are the most privileged group to ever exist.
Rape culture should be dismissed because it isn't a real thing. That doesn't mean rape as a crime shouldn't be disregarded. It should indeed take male victims of females more seriously, and false accusers should be punished the same way a rapist is charged.
We are looking at different stats for sure. You likely have the 1 in 4 stat (mary koss stat) which is known puffery and has zero reliability. The Bureau of Justice Statistics are the gold star in crime stats and show it is less than 0.8 out of 1000. This is a reliable source.

[LogicBomber]

Saying that is isn't constructive to be hostile to feminism is the same as saying it isn't constructive to be hostile against the KKK. A hate group is a hate group and it should be criticized and targeted.
When we don't push back against hate groups they become dictators of laws and social ideas that are harmful to society and the people in it. This is already what feminism has become. It has too much power and creates way too many suppressive and hateful laws and social mindsets.

[PhilosophicalBull]

I think feminism's biggest stumbling block is the members unwillingness to confront, or even acknowledge, it's misandric elements.
From the #killallmen crowd, to the "male tears" crowd, you have people flying feminism's flag while attacking men. Then the garden-variety feminists either pretend that they don't exist or shrug and say "yeah, they aren't REAL feminists."
In short, the RadFems are killing your movement, and only outsiders are willing to challenge them.
Secondly, you have con artists pretending to be feminists.
Anita Sarkeesian claims to care about female representation in video games.
She has collected hundreds of thousands of dollars. She could have easily started her own video game publisher. Then she could have made the type of game that she wants.
What does she do? Keeps the money, and demands that the existing franchises change to suit her whims.
Feminists like this claim they want fictional characters that women can identify with, aspire to be.
Fine, a laudable goal. But let them create their own, rather than feminizing the characters that males created for themselves.
As long as feminism attacks us and tries to steal our culture, men will oppose it.

[powerwoman]

I have never met a Feminist who un-ironically declared that she wanted to "Kill all Men".
I can understand why you feel attacked, however, if you did encounter such a radical.
However, I am confused on one point-- whose culture is Feminism stealing? Are you talking about gaming culture, still, or something else-- genuinely looking for clarification by the way.
Thanks for commenting.

[PhilosophicalBull]

To answer your question: the cultural "theft" I am referring to is mainly, but not limited to, comic books.
Beloved characters are being recast for (seemingly) no good reason. Iron Man has been turned into a black female teenager, Thor got a gender swap. There was even a character (I'm not familiar with her, so I can't name her for you) who spelled it out plainly: running around in a shirt that read "ask me about my feminist agenda."
Now, political themes are nothing new to comics. Captain America fought Nazis, and the X-Men regularly dealt in themes of fighting racism. Peoples grievance stemmed from the fact that the feminist storylines were not well handled. It felt very forced. The comic ended up feeling less like fantasy literature and more like propaganda.
I'm afraid I can't give you better details. I haven't read comics in decades. This info comes from what I overheard in other discussions. A genuine "comic nerd" could give you a better summary, should you desire one.

[PhilosophicalBull]

To clarify my stance: I am neutral on feminism.
Not because I don't have an opinion, but because feminists come in such a bewildering variety.
I consider Christina Hoff Summers to be one of the greatest thinkers of our time.
I consider Anita Sarkeesian to be a glorified con artist.
And yet both are feminists.
This makes forming a "thumb up/thumb down" opinion on feminism impossible.

[powerwoman]

I can see where you're coming from. Personally, I think representation is important-- comics, films, etc. belong to everyone, and it makes sense to let a diverse audience relate to the characters.
At the same time, this doesn't mean we get to sacrifice quality/standards-- bad writing is bad writing, and not enjoying it, or even just being attached to the originals, doesn't make you a bad person. Thanks for contributing!

[Crapulux]

You have your definitions wrong. Let me clear things up.

Oldskool feminists: "Just like everyone else, women should be free to do whatever they want, i. e. equal RIGHTS for everyone. "

Today's feminists: "Women should do what feminists say, and we will enforce equality of outcome."

Case in point: Sweden. They really have equal rights. Women can pick careers they like, and men can pick careers they like. And the funny bit is that the result is exactly what you'd expect: women flock to archetypal girl-stuff (like nursing, care, HR, relations, communications, teaching) and men flock to typically manly jobs (tech, engineering, IT, etc).

Obviously, instead of acknowledging that sexes are different and that everyone doing what they want is perfectly fine, feminists conclude that everyone has internalized sexism and misogyny. And they want to enforce total equity in all fields, especially in fields women aren't interested in.

Today's feminists are marxist SJWs. They don't care about reality.

[0112358]

Do I consider myself a feminist? No.

why not? I don't consider patriarchy the dominant feature of our culture (which would imply it's dismantling and a fundamental improvement in women's position relative to men as a goal require for equality).

Am I open to feminism? That depends what feminism means. I believe in equal opportunity. I believe there are ways men and women suffer currently from inequality. I'm interested in greater fairness.

What sort of experiences have I had? With the exception of the odd empty statement from mainstream politicians or corporate boards, the self described feminists I've met in real life who were beyond high school age have all believed in patriarchy as the enemy. I try to talk to some and consider their opinions but i don't agree with them. While I dont really blame feminists directly for problems in my life, I do believe that some of the things they push for are actually making things worse.

When someone tells me they're a feminist - especially when they're a different age or in a different place from me, I wait to see what feminism means to them.

[powerwoman]

That's certainly fair. I personally consider anyone who believes in gender equality/supporting women, to be feminist to an extent, but like you pointed out at the end there labels don't always exactly cover everything. The important thing is open-mindedness. Thanks for sharing!

[0112358]

Can I ask how much contact you've had with organized feminism at a college level?

[powerwoman]

I'm admit I'm not an expert. I've been involved in some activism/protests, go
to lectures, taken a few GSWS classes, etc. We're a pretty liberal campus and there are several feminist organizations on campus, I try and attend their events from time to time.
I will, however, admit to being a #BadFeminist on occasion.

[cth96190]

@powerwoman
Apparently, you have spent far too much time listening to your Gender Studies lecturers, rather than paying attention to what Feminists say and do in the real world.
Feminism is not about equal treatment, it is about destroying heterosexual white men and Western Civilisation.
Feminism is a hate movement, which was created by Jewish Marxists. If you doubt that, go through the exercise of looking at the leading lights of Feminism. You have to look hard to find any who are/were not Jewish and are/were not Marxists.
See:
https://jwa.org/feminism
Perhaps you did not get the memo about tens of millions of women retweeting #killallmen and #maletears.
Those tweets look pretty hateful, to me. That puts to rest the standard claim that the hateful and violent voices are just a few random loons.
Then there are the words of the leading thinkers of the Feminist cause. Here is a sample of what some prominent Feminist thinkers have had to say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzF-Q_ZEDg

[powerwoman]

Gosh darn it, it looks like this man is wise to us, Jew brothers and sisters. The jig is well and truly up.
Look-- you're more than welcome to express yourself here, but I can't appreciate anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

[cth96190]

@powerwoman
If you had followed the link, you would have seen for yourself that it was not "an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory".
Is a Jewish organisation and publication that claims credit for Feminism not sufficient for you?
Are names such as Dworkin, Solanis and Steinem not Jewish enough for you?
You are in denial of reality.

[powerwoman]

I did follow the link-- I'm not saying that we haven't been involved in Feminism.
But you're using that involvement in a post explaining why you see Feminism not just bad-- but in fact an attempt to destroy civilization. To me, that says Anti-Semitic. Big time.
Hence the side-eye, which in this case I will not apologize for because Jesus Christ.
I literally just came out of my Jewish History lecture and I am miles past having any of that noise.

[cth96190]

Perhaps you did not get the memo about the Jewish desire to destroy Western Civilisation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85BKDj_1vVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfKOU31cteg

[powerwoman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nTpsv9PNqo

[AleDeEurope]

LMAO "feminists believe in equality" yeah right lol that's why they fight so hard for equality in court... as hard as they fight for freeing the nipple... oh wait, I forgot that being able to show your boobs is more important than kids being raised by a the best parent... -_-

Movements are defined by actions, not definitions. 3rd wave feminism has not proven they want equality. Stop trying to push that shitty narrative and actually fight for equality.
There's a reason people who believe in equality actually leave the feminist movement...

[lkghdfghkjl]

It's really sad how an evil economic agenda like neoliberalism and the wealthy classical liberals assume self-righteousness and causes like feminism. They we very successful in depleting feminism from any true value to women from underprivileged social classes (these are the ones truly suffering) and turned into some meaningless bullshit like "Girls, don't be ashamed of your period" WTF.

[lkghdfghkjl]

One last thing, mainstream feminism truly deprives the women who most need it from any power and only the voices of powerful and privileged women get heard. These women didn't share and have no idea about the life experience she of the majority of unprivileged women they trying to represent. They misrepresent and eventually only those lower on the social ladder gets hurt.

[AleDeEurope]

@lkghdfghkjl Agreed. Feminism used to be great, now they just fucked it all up.

[powerwoman]

@lkghdfghkjl Lack of intersectionality is definitely an issue that needs to be worked on, so thanks for bringing that up!

[Anpu23]

I am an extremely vocal anti-feminist. I have written about this extensively, I maintain a Facebook page, and a Minds channel all about this subject. I am always interested in conversation about feminism and feminist thought.

What is feminism to me? To me it is a supremacy group, hiding behind language of acceptance and inclusion. Regardless of how any movement is defined what the movement actually does is much more important. Especially the political organizations that influence policy, laws and government funding. Such groups as NOW, and the International Organization for Women, are to me, the face of feminism. Not a group of well meaning people sitting in a coffee shop discussing gender issues.

[powerwoman]

While I can't say I agree with your assessment, I do appreciate both your interest and your willingness to acknowledge the good intentions of at least certain Feminists.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.

[Anpu23]

Anytime.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Lol! This child really just tried to use a dictionary definition of feminism, then stated you are sexist if you aren't feminist. Like wow, and you wonder why people are agaisnt feminism? Are you really that programmed by the feminists that you can't even do a little research into history? Feminism is NOT about equality which FEMINISTS prove with their "agree with our movement or die" thoughtspeak. Why do feminists hate men? Why do they want to chop off mens penises? Why do they want to kill all men? Feminism is STRICTLY one side of the coin, representing only womens interests. If feminists were interested in equality then they would take interest in human issues, not just womens. That's just deductive reasoning, something feminists are incapable of.

[powerwoman]

I'm not entirely sure why you feel that the endgame is murder or genital mutilation-- I assure it is not-- but whatever the reason I hope you have more positive experiences with Feminism in the future. Best.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Tell that to your feminist leadership.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Also history.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Also might want to try to convince the other feminists of that stuff too.

[Kirah]

The problem is, many self-proclaimed "feminists" are incredibly sexist against men. This is not just some vocal minority. Large feminist organizations (such as NOW) are actively lobbying to keep the Duluth Model in place. Feminism itself is responsible for how poorly men are treated in domestic violence situations, and feminism isn't doing a single thing about it.

[Kirah]

Generally, feminism is not about equality. I am for equality, therefore I do not associate with feminism.

[powerwoman]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don't deny that some Feminists are problematic, and you're not wrong in thinking this needs to be addressed!

[Kirah]

@powerwoman this isn't "some" feminists. It's *most* feminists. As I said, the largest feminist organizations are responsible for this.

[Chief16]

www.dailywire.com/.../tumblr_me6t0rlLit1qey9tv.jpg
Feminists these days do little more than harass people who don't agree with them.

[powerwoman]

I don't agree but boy oh boy do I appreciate the meme so thanks for that.

[Chief16]

@powerwoman use it as you will then.