I have actually had , at a former workplace ( one I left very quickly !! ) a self proclaimed feminist , that did not even know me at all , snarl at me... because I was the nearest male ..." Men are a cancer , that should be cut out !! " If I had spewed the same venom at women ( I have had a LOT of bad experiences with women , yet I would never sink to the depths of hate ) I would have been instantly fired & also arrested / prosecuted for inciting hate / hate speech.
Feminism started out with good intentions as Womens Liberation , but has been progressively hijacked by the misandrist lunatics , this is no accident , it is another " divide & rule " tool , backed & funded by those that REALLY pull the strings of power ( the Rothschild Cartel ) , look up Agenda 21 ... it has been deliberately engineered.
I'm sorry that you had that experience-- thanks for sharing. I did as you suggested and did a quick search for Agenda 21, and it looks like it's an... environmental summit? Sorry about the confusion, would you mind clarifying? Thanks in advance.
Im sorry though but its honestly just nuts how or why on earth many feminist think they own the word equality, an ancient concept that has exsisted for thousands of years and somehow feminism who has exsisted for how long?, less than a century anyway I would assume, seem to think they own the word.
You can so easily be for equality without having to be labeled as a feminist. Its no different than say a christian telling a muslim or buddist or whatever that he is christian cause he believes in "God". You honestly just shit on peoples believe by doing so, and you shit on peoples experience and views regarding feminism to by trying to label them as such if they are against it, not to mention when the vast majority if not all are against it cause its not a movement that cares about equality. From their experience and viewpoint anyway, and based on my experience too that sure as hell seem damn true.
I apologize you you feel like Feminism is invalidating other movements-- that really isn't the aim, at least for me. Plenty of causes work for equality. I'm not at all denying that!
Not movements really, just people, but im sure they do that too. I believe you, but considring all the bad feminism have done, so much screwed up stuff too, like crashing conventions where guys was gonna talk about suicide, but werent allowed to talk about that cause men are trash and should be shot etc, sending bomb threaths to close these things down, not to mention killallmen hashtag and what not. Point is anyway, so many scream that the "patriarchy" is trying to silence them but they try to silence everyone else, men aren't allowed to talk about their problems. Then of course you have nutjobs like Anita sarkessian who scam and manipulate people and silence/ban anyone who provide facts.
Either way again, furhter points, I can't think of any group that has more sexsist, vile and disugsting people in it, why anyone would want to be part of a group like that I dont know, but as long as the individual themselves dont hurt people, at least its something.
I don't deny that some Feminists are problematic. That sort of thing is genuinely troubling. But I'm pretty sure the killallmen hashtag is ironic-- actually sort of parodying the perception of Feminism as hateful/militant, believe it or not.
I do find it sort of hard to think that we're the actually worst though. I mean, you know there are actual Nazis out there, right. Not "FemiNazis". Like, just Nazis.
Thanks for being open minded to individuals, at least, that does go a long way!
Most of the big named feminists in todays society are problematic like that, whatever or whoever that is good in that movement get drowned out by all the bad no doubt. It certainly didn't start that way, maybe it got changed like that eventually perhaps.
Yeah which is pretty sad, like from what I seen the reccent years, take KKK, they been nowhere as bad as feminists. Feminism have done way more harm then they could even if they tried with all their might. The nazis are at least generally honest with themselves, problem with many feminists again is that they hide their cruelty behind "equality" and "good deeds" when in reality they do the opposite.
Oh you welcome of course, always open to at least meeting any feminist who isent sexsist for example, would say I met 1 girl a while ago here who didn't seem like it, so am down to 98% now that are sexist (from experience), cause yeah I met about 50, 49 of them were yeah, simply sexsist.
You get that Nazis systematically murdered people, right? My people? And the KKK straight up murders people. I get that Feminism has some issues but I feel like that's objectively worse?
In the past sure, but in this age, not so much. Hell, I dont think I seen anything anywhere that the kkk has killed anyone say recent 7years, but I have seen several cases of people killing the KKK. Their movement is rather small today. But speaking of nazi, is kinda why the whole "femi-nazi" thing exsist too, cause of the similiarities.
Although for the record, the nazi killed "my people" too.
OK, then, you should know that comparing people to Nazis isn't constructive, or something to be taken lightly. The Nazis committed actual genocide. Nothing comes close to that, or is at all comparable, unless we're talking about other genocidal regimes-- not gender politics. You don't strike me as someone with bad intentions, and I'm sure you mean well. So no offense meant. But that comparison always comes across as inappropriate.
It was you who brought that up though, I was talking mainly about the KKK, only few things I mention about the nazi was that they were generally honest/raw with their motives, while feminism isent, wasent saying one was worse or better, only pointing out a few differences.
Its not as simple nor easily dismissed as just gender politics you know. Like this one story about this one kid who got blamed for a rape he didn't commit (the girl made it all up) the community, feminists, SJW, schools, community etc ended up pushing him so far he ended up killing himself. An in the u. k feminists was in a uproar about changing the law that would include females as rapists too (but they can't be rapists apparently), so last I heard the law was the same. If you think thats all there is, ideas, politics etc, just no. People do actually suffer from it.
Dont have to tell me, I lost family from the nazi.
I'm really, truly sorry for your loss. I am. If you know the statistics about rape, you know that a tiny percentage of rape accusations are false ones. So many more rapists are never brought to justice. That means that for every sad story like the one you just told me, so so so many more go like this: Someone is violated, and they don't get justice. That's a problem, too. That needs to be addressed, too. So yes, I think we need Feminism.
Thank you, but before my time anyway, although ironically (somewhat) Me today have actually suffered from that past, my grandfather for example actually joined the nazis (out of fear though, but still) when the germans invaded our country, but as you know. THe sins of the father. Family for generations I guess then got to suffer cause of his choice, cause naturally nobody is fond of a traier, im not either. But past is past too, is not correct to punish todays people for it, like naturally too so many of the germans who fought for this cause was just people too who would lose their family if they didn't fight.
Anyway, but yeah personally I think the system is just idiotic when it comes to rape, like nobody wants to go through all the trauma they experienced with say a court and what not. In my opinion the rape victim could say get a counsler/therapist/psychologist or whatever, so they get to share their story in a safe enviroment -
instead of being jugded, doubted and questioned in court, like it isent traumatic enough on its own to be raped, and then they are supposed to live through that for months as the court goes through, yeah no way. Why most choose not to pursue it, its not worth it, nor your sanity. Its "easier" to try and get over the rape an trauma than to live through it, over an over, day after day trying to get the rapist convicted for their crime. Needs to be a better system. But yeah I know yes, and suprisingly too, here anyway, last I checked it was as many as 40-45% of the rape victims was male even, suprised me even really. Although sadly too, false accusations just get more an more frequent too.
Sorry brain error, I meant that this psychologist or whatever could speak on behalf of the victim in court, so the rape victim didn't have to do it. And would also kinda think at least, that a professional could perhaps tell the difference too of what is a false accusation and what is a real one, but yeah just my idea anyway.
Here is your problem in a nutshell. You choose to see only the dictionary definition of feminism and ignore the REALITY of what feminism has actually been DOING for the last 30 years. If feminism were actually what you seem to believe it is, virtually every man would support it. But the REALITY of feminism is far from what you think it is, and it is the REALITY of feminism that men experience every day.
Bottom line: men are hostile toward feminism because feminism has been and continues to be hostile toward men. If you cannot open your eyes wide enough to see that REALITY, you will never get it.
I disagree, respectfully. I see where you are coming from, but I also believe that Feminism is what we make it. We each have a say in what it means for us. Thank you for sharing your opinion, though.
Your take here is a shining example of the lack of honesty that characterizes feminism today. When feminism begins to display some honesty about itself and the realities of gender issues, men will come to the table to talk. But as of this moment, feminism, is a long, long, long way from that.
And so things will continue as they always have, with more and more women seeing what feminism is and leaving the movement, and feminists like you left standing there wondering what has happened. Pick up a mirror.
I'm sorry if I struck you as dishonest. Most of my male friends consider themselves to be feminists, but perhaps we've just had different experiences. Thank you for sharing.
I don't hold feminism up as perfect. Certainly we've had our failings, especially in regards to inclusion. But we've also accomplished a great deal! You're obviously welcome to your opinion, but personally I'm not giving up just yet!
I know very few guys who are feminists, for what most men would consider very obvious reasons. The few I do know are pretty odd human beings.
But you hit the nail on the head when you said we've had different experiences. Part of the problem with feminists is the extremely gynocentric perspective they have. They only seem capable of seeing things through very biased female lenses. If you could take those glasses off and actually spend a day in a man's shoes, you would feel very different about it. That is what is missing from feminism.
You feminists have your notions of equality that benefit you but not men. Anyone with a little intellectual honesty can easily see that Western feminism has nothing at all to do with true equality.
It's true that I don't know what it's like to be a man. But neither, I expect, do you know what it's like to be a woman. That's why I think discussions like this can be important. We all have such different experiences and perspectives, and we'll never understand each other unless we voice them.
Having read a few of your responses here I can see you are not interested in discussion at all, just disagreeing with those who don't share your views. Yep, you're a feminist.
I'm sorry for having come across that way. I've certainly disagreed with some of what I've read, but I did not intend to shut them down-- I only meant to explain my own viewpoint. I'm sorry if that offended you.
Quick question though-- do non-feminists agree with the people who don't share their views? Because that seems somewhat odd, tbh. And more than a little contradictory. And also not what you're doing at all.
I am not the one who wrote this: "Neither Person A nor Person B understand each other. Feminism becomes a dirty word. Nobody really communicates or learns anything." So your comment about being contradictory seems a little... well, contradictory.
Feminism became a dirty word because feminism made it one. PLease don't try to suggest it was anyone else's fault. There is 30 years or more of history behind what I just said. Do you really not see that? Really?
It's one thing to call out hostility that stems from simple miscommunication.
This doesn't mean that people can't have conflicting opinions. I understand that you disagree with me. That's fine. But opening up a dialogue, and then not doing a total 180 on my beliefs doesn't make me self-contradictory, or close minded. I was upfront in the My Take about being a feminist. That I defend Feminism shouldn't come as a surprise. It also doesn't mean that I don't want to understand others. Your comments, have, believe it or not, been insightful.
That said, I am a little offended by your tone, which is frankly coming across as patronizing. I disagree with you, but I never suggested you lack a grasp on reality. I'd appreciate if you afforded me the same courtesy. Thanks.
Patronizing? I find it pretty ironic that a feminist is going to chastise anyone for being patronizing.
Look, I am treating you with more respect and courtesy here than the vast majority of feminists afford most men, and frankly with more than any woman who identifies as a feminist today deserves considering how feminists typically behave.
So, respectfully, I will tell you that I'm not bothered one bit by you taking offense at what I have written here.
"Patronizing? I find it pretty ironic that a feminist is going to chastise anyone for being patronizing. " "[...] frankly with more than any woman who identifies as a feminist today deserves considering how feminists typically behave."
... This isn't patronizing? Are we not reading the same post you literally just... you know what, never mind. Thanks for trying to talk to me like I was an individual person, or whatever, even if it was so much more than I deserved.
If you reread what I wrote you will see I said nothing about me not being patronizing. My point was to point out the irony of a feminist giving anyone else a hard time for something that is typical feminist behavior. You feminists have another thing coming if you just expect men to treat you respectfully after the way you have treated men for so long. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.
Again, I did not say that I was not being patronizing. I'm not sure why you keep saying that.
What I was trying to say is that someone who chooses to support a group of people who regularly treats men disrespectfully does not deserve respect. Would you not agree?
OK, if you don't see how telling someone they don't deserve to be treated respectfully is patronizing, I really don't know what to tell you. Not sure what else to say, here.
I do respect men. Believe it or not, some of my best friends are men. I'm even related to several men.
How can you say you respect men yet choose to support a movement that clearly does not respect men? That makes no sense. If you support gender equality, why do you support a movement that does NOT support that ideal?
I didn't say you said you were patronizing. I said that what you said was patronizing, not that you said what you said was-- oh gosh, let's just both try to say all this three times fast and whoever pulls it off wins the argument, OK?
That's your opinion of Feminism. I don't see it as being anti-men at all. In fact, I see it as helping men as well as women. Certainly some feminists hate men, but then some Republicans are racists. Doesn't mean Republicanism is.
We seem to disagree on what certain terms mean. I think that's the real issue here, honestly.
Let me say it another way... I was being patronizing and I never denied it. I just don;t know where you got the idea I was saying otherwise.
My opinion of feminism is based on my experience with feminism. That is true of every man, and it;s why 95% of men do not support feminism. It is frankly astonishing to me that a woman, in this day and age, cannot see why men hate feminism. Absolutely astonishing. It's as if we live on different planets.
I don't entirely understand why you think what you do, either. That's why we, you know, have different opinions. Which isn't crazy.
Feminism clearly means different things to us. The reason this isn't going anywhere is because we, on a fundamental level, have different understandings of a term. It's not about actual opinions, or ideals. You can get someone to see your point of view in regards to an opinion. But because we disagree over what a word means-- well, I think that's the issue.
Let's make up a word. How about "Mjfihkaenf". Who knows, maybe it exists. If it does, my money's says it's an Icelandic volcano.
The point is if I know that Mjfihkaenf means water, and you know it means fire, we can't actually debate the point until we agree. It's not that sort of disagreement.
I could be wrong, but I think that's probably why this is so frustrating.
It's the behavior that matters, not the word. When Mjfihkaenfs behave the way feminists have behaved toward men, they do not deserve respect regardless of what the dictionary says. A person can say "I support equality" and "I respect men" all they want, but when their behavior clearly shows the opposite to be true, that is all that matters.
Almost everyone I know supports equality, both men and women, but the people I have encountered who were the most sexist and biased with respect to gender issues were almost invariably feminists. Tell me, why should I support such a movement? Why would I want to?
I think that Feminism has made some fantastic strides throughout history. The legacy of the movement is important to me, and so is the future.
If you hate the word "Feminism", I'm sorry. I can't make you change your mind anymore than you can make me change mine. The important thing is that you support equality. We both do. The movement, for me, is a very positive one and I'd like to encourage more people to get involved. But I'm not out here trying to get you to save your soul, or whatever. How you label yourself is ultimately your decision, and while I'm open to debate I'm not gonna try to force you to do anything.
I'm not going to assume that you treat women like shit just because you won't call yourself a Feminist. Please don't assume that I hate men just because I do call myself a Feminist.
Yes, it's true that feminism accomplished some positive things many, many years ago. But the net effect of feminism today and over the last couple of decades is overwhelmingly negative. For you to say "The movement, for me, is a very positive one" that means you are OK with accepting all the harm it does. To me, that is unforgivable.
There is no future of feminism. The movement has been in the toilet for years and the only people who support it are bigots and people who condone bigotry. There is no place in the world for that today. It has no future.
I do not personally treat an entire gender like shit, nor do I support any movement that does. Can you claim the same? If not, you're doing something wrong.
Of course I claim the same. I said that I believe in equality, and I meant it.
Clearly our perceptions of what Feminism is are different. I cannot defend what you believe Feminism is because I don't believe in it. Plain and simple.
By the way, I do not support MRAs either because they have simply become the mirror image of feminism. But let's be clear that they exist ONLY because of the sexism of feminism. If feminism went away today, as it should, MRAs would disappear tomorrow. Both feed off each other and are just becoming more and more extreme. That will only continue until we dismiss the gender-centric movements and adopt one that actually gives a fuck about BOTH genders.
Feminism has always been about advancing women's interests, regardless of men's. That is NOT equality. Feminism has never been about equality and it never will be. That was acceptable 50 years ago but it's not today. That is the root of feminism's problems and why feminism will never be legitimate or relevant in the West again.
I can tell that you're coming from a good place. I like to think that I am too. You want a movement that cares about everyone. For me that movement is Feminism. I think of the patriarchy as hurting men just as surely as it does women.
But we're going in circles, here. I appreciate you providing your viewpoint. However, this comment thread has turned into, essentially: "NO I DIDN'T" "YES YOU DID" "NO I DIDN'T" "YES YOU DID", not real debate, and it doesn't strike me as particularly constructive.
No, you support feminism and therefore you cannot claim the same. That is very dishonest of you. You cannot say you support feminism and support equality any more than I can say I support Nazism and I support human rights. Both are impossible.
You are in denial about what feminism is. You want to believe it is something that it isn't. That goes beyond naivete because it hurts people. You need to open your eyes.
Please stop comparing Feminism to Nazism. Those sort of comparisons shut discourse down, they don't actually contribute. Moreover, having relatives who are survivors, it's deeply hurtful and insulting. I'm open to hearing differing opinions, but please have some respect. Genocide isn't something you use to make a point in an online argument. Please, don't.
Nazism and modern feminism share similar ideologies, but have acted on them differently. The biggest difference is that Nazis had a charismatic psychopath as a leader who actually acted on his bigotry. It's naive to dismiss the similarities. But the point is that you cannot say you are a "good feminist" any more than you can say you are a "good Nazi". If you support the movement, you support what it does. You cannot pick and choose. I'm sorry if that offends you but it's a fair statement.
OK-- who does it hurt. Who does it really hurt, like on a level that you think Nazi comparisons are appropriate? You keep talking about the reality of feminism, or "what it's actually done". What. Are. You. Talking about. I've experienced feminism. I've been to rallies. Taken classes. Gone to the lectures. And believe it or not, we never actually discussed male death camps or genocide-- like, not even once. Or rounding up men. Or killing your puppy, or getting your girlfriend to dump you, or whatever else it is you think we did.
No, I do not trivialize the actions of one by comparing the similar ideologies of the two. That's just silly. And yes, members of my family died in the Holocaust too. I’m not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings or minimize anyone’s loss. It is a fair comparison and there is a reason it is made as often as it is.
Children raised without a father are at much higher risk of a plethora of social and emotional problems, including much higher rates of depression, suicide, drug use and criminality. And yet feminists lobby against fathers' rights, support the idea that fathers are unimportant and encourage single mothers. Feminism has supported the destruction of marriage and the nuclear family. Who knows how many millions of people have been harmed by that.
And yet feminists riot and protest and try to shut down speakers who try to bring awareness to suicide and men’s issues. They deny and marginalize the real issues men face but then say “oh no, we support men’s rights because feminism makes it so men can talk about their feelings”. Spare me!
Three generations of boys have been raised with the ever-present feminist messages that they are irrelevant, unnecessary and should feel guilty that they are male. That’s because feminism tries to boost women up by dragging men down.
Feminists belittle women who choose to be stay-at-home mothers, despite the fact that those mothers’ children are better off as a result. In fact, feminists belittle women who don’t toe the party line in every way.
Feminism mostly is responsible for the horrible state of affairs of gender relations in the West. Feminism has driven a wedge between men and women and it will take a very long time to repair that damage, if it’s possible at all.
Feminist influence has resulted in the feminization of our public school system and as a result boys are not served well by the school system. The program is tailored to females and males get left behind and branded as trouble makers. When confronted about it most feminists deny it is a problem despite the enormous impact it has on half the population and society as a whole.
In France, feminists pushed through a law that makes it illegal for a “father” to request a paternity test if the mother does not consent to it. The rationale is that society benefits when men are forced to pay for the raising of a child when they are not the father.
My cousins are twins, one guy one girl. They are both in college now, although she is on full ride scholarship simply because she is female but he has to work to pay his tuition. He was better is every respect, academically, behaviorally, he volunteered in the community and she didn’t, he played volleyball and she did nothing but school and friends. And yet, because she is a female she is eligible for all kinds of scholarships and financial aid that is not available to him because he is male, all this despite the fact that only 40% of college students and graduates at all levels are male anymore. You better believe that feminism is pushing to keep that status quo.
But wait... that's "not real feminism", right? Well guess what, it's the feminism that has impacted men and society for decades. It's the ONLY real feminism from any practical standpoint. You can support whatever you want in your little college clubs, but the only thing that matters is what feminism DOES, and what it has been DOING for many years is overwhelmingly negative and destructive. That is what men actually experience with feminism, and why we have every reason and right to hate it.
I need to add that there is nothing quite as insulting to men as feminists like Emma Watson and her HeForShe crap saying men should support feminism because we're all in this together and should be on the same side. WTF? That's like the wolf telling the sheep "come on, we all want the same thing, let's help each other out here". Feminists want men to support feminism for their own selfish reasons that have NOTHING to do whatsoever with the welfare of the other half of the human race.
I'm sorry, but men too are sick and tired of the sexism and hypocrisy of feminism to ever support it again. Feminism has utterly poisoned the gender debate and nothing good will come from pretending it is still a viable force for positive change. It's time to see feminism for what it really is. We need to bury it 6 feet under and start the gender discussion from scratch without the baggage, preconceived biases and outright dishonesty of feminism.
My experience in discussing feminism with women in the real world is that most of them, like @Kirah, see feminism for what it really is and refuse to support it. What is it, ms powerwoman, that blinds you to the facts that are so obvious to the rest of us?
OK-- your experience has not been my experience. I don't consider myself blinded, I've just had very different experiences... Feminism is not generally considered negative by those in my day to day life. As I've said before, I don't see this particular thread becoming constructive soon. I've told you what I believe about Feminism. You've done the same. I'm in no way telling you to leave, or be quiet, or whatever. This is an open forum, obviously. I did feel like a line had been crossed, and I was offended. I'm sorry for your own losses-- But as a Jew, I personally just consider such comparisons inappropriate. Period. I'm going to take a step back, for now. I hope you don't see this as me ignoring you to be rude, but the tone of this particular back and forth doesn't seem to be improving and I have an exam in two days. Have a good evening.
So, you asked me what harm feminism does and I gave you a list of examples, and now you're telling me you are going to "take a step back" rather than do your part and respond? It would be pretty difficult to spin that as anything but a giant cop out, and I do not accept that. I respectfully ask you to respond to what I wrote per your request. I would also ask you to provide some specific examples of positive things feminism has actually accomplished in the US over the last 5 years to justify your support for a movement that clearly does so much harm. No rush... I'll be patient.
When I started this forum, I wanted to start discussion. That’s all well and good. But the fact is that I’m also a college student with a full course load, and I never pledged to make to time to get back to everyone on each of their bullet points. This is an open discussion, not a Q & A. I’ll go ahead and make that disclaimer right now. Personally, I decided to focus on common ground. I don’t agree with all the “evidence” that’s been brought up, but engaging in a back and forth over it is simply not something I always want to spend my time doing. I’m not doing this to try to be rude, or ignore people. I focus on common ground when I see it because it feels like a better use of time, and a way of bringing positivity to the discussion. I’m not sure what you want me to say in response to statements like “You’re wrong/blind/ignorant—open your eyes!”. This isn’t so much discussion as it is scolding me, so I can fire back and be an “Angry Feminist Bitch”, or move on to other ideas.
For example, I will say that I thought you raised an interesting point about education. I can, to extent, relate having struggled with ADHD and Dysgraphia as a child—I didn’t feel like the education was set up for me, either. I’ve looked into accessibility in education for several classes, and had discussions with educators in my family—I can’t say that my takeaway was that Feminists who “Feminized” schools are to blame. But I do agree that education should be made more accessible to a wider range of kids. I’m not a full-time blogger, or writer. There are plenty of Feminists out there who DO write for a living, so if you’re interested check them out. There’s a lot of great literature out there if you’re interested. Personally, when I get tired of theory, I’ve been enjoying Roxane Gay. She’s a fun read. Again, I don't mean to brush you or Kirah off. Best.
That's what I figured. Feminists will typically say things like "feminism is overwhelmingly positive" but quickly go into cop out and denial mode when the discussion gets down to specific examples and facts that clearly show it is actually very negative. It's pretty hard to have a productive discussion under those conditions.
Your take was about the notion that miscommunication is to blame for "misunderstandings" about feminism. It's not miscommunication at all; it's people choosing to wear blinders and being content to remain in denial and a state of willful ignorance rather than seeing things for what they really are.
Reproductive justice is important to me. Safe, affordable abortion simply isn’t accessible to a number of women, and in my opinion the right to choose is being threatened in the U. S. by the current administration. Unrealistic body-image standards contribute to eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia—they’re literally hurting people. Sexual violence and harassment affects millions of Americans—and many women, who are most often but not always the victims, are shamed for speaking out. I consider these points, among others, to be relevant issues. That’s not even to mention the status of women globally.
Feminism is not about tearing apart families, or telling boys that they don’t matter. You clearly believe it is. Feminism didn’t drive a wedge between men and women. It was a RESPONSE to rampart sexism in our society, which didn’t magically disappear and then get reinvented anew by Feminists. (1/2)
I can’t control what you think about these things, and me not wanting to waste my time trying isn’t a “cop out”. Frankly, you’ve repeatedly told me that I’m blind to the truth/wrong about everything—how is that not a cop-out? How are you not "in denial mode", whenever I express my opinion?
If you don’t want to agree with me, fine. But please stop acting as though I’ve slighted you by doing the same.
I really hope this satisfies you, but I’ll live either way. Have a good one, Anonymous. (2/2)
Satisfies me? No, not at all, nor does it surprise me. Your responses are typical of the denial and intellectual dishonesty we have come to expect from feminists like you.
In short, you are what is wrong with feminism and why men (and most women) hate the movement today. Key takeaway here: the problem is the dishonesty and bias of feminists, not a lack of communication, as you suggest.
Every day, fewer and fewer people support feminism, and that will only continue until some honesty finds its way into the movement. But that is never going to happen; instead, feminism will be discarded as an irretrievably broken movement and will be replaced by one that is not so gynocentric, dishonest and anti-male, one that genuinely cares about and advocates for the rights and needs of both genders.
I think the people you need to speak to are women. The fact is that most women, even the ones that call themselves feminists, don't really believe in feminism. and yes, we all know there are exceptions to every rule. but you ask most of these women if they go after men when dating, or pay for dates, and you get "oh, I would never do that, I believe in tradition." Sorry, nope. You can't have it both ways. Either your a feminist or not. If your sitting back waiting for the guy to come after you, your not a feminist. If you look down on the guy because he wants you to at least pay for one date, your not a feminist. Unfortunately, The men hating feminazi's have seriously hurt your cause. Because most of us men hear the word feminism and such vile hate comes to mind that we don't want anything to do with those women.
There is a difference between third wave feminism and Egalitarianism. What you are describing is Egalitarianism. I don't consider myself a feminist because feminism has already shown it's true colors (Misandry, bias, believes one sex is superior to the other, and it only cares about certain people) despite what it's definition says. Egalitarianism on the other hand, is true equality. Egalitarianism is something I have a lot of respect for.
I am not a feminist and never will be. I do believe people should be treated fair tho. But from every feminist I met doesn't want that. They want special treatment, and in all honestly they actually get it. It's not equality, it's really female superiority. So why the fuck would I support that? On top of that most women who support it are cunts. They don't listen to any idea but their own. They like forcing their idea on others. And a lot hate men even if they say other wise. For example how many times have I heard "teach men not to rape", as if all men are rapists. Men aren't rapists, rapists are rapists. Calling an entire gender something so horrible is just going to make members of that gender dislike you, not listen to you, and ultimately not give a shit about you. Feminism isn't the answer it is actually part of the problem.
I do agree with you on this point-- the common rape narrative needs to change. It's insulting to both men and women. This idea that men are like animals who can't help but rape women is really toxic , not only because it is degrading but bc it places blame on victims for not doing more to avoid the "inevitable". Not to mention a lack of acknowledgement for male victims. To my understanding, when Feminists say "teach men not to rape", it's meant to flip the script on victim blamers who ask women what they were wearing, etc "teach women not to get raped" being the implication. Of course men aren't all rapists. I don't agree with you on Feminism overall, but for sure people who insist that men will inevitably rape a women are a HUGE part of the problem. Thanks for pointing that out.
Fact is men are under attack from feminists all the time at work, at home, in sports, in the courts, in colleges and a lot of women who are pro equality between the sexes see how unfair it can be for men In modern society and sympathise and want to stick up for men and be fair towards them as after all every woman is some man's wife, girlfriend, mother, daughter, sister, cousin, aunt, grandmother and friend. Think about it if you were the mother and your son was falsely accused of rape or the divorce court made a sexist decision about custody of his kids, family home, savings, alimony, property and child support payments.
I suppose that I would a feminist, based on the definition you provided but there is more to a word than just it's definition. There are connotations attached to feminism that I want no part of.
For example: The racism of the suffragettes, the suffragettes who shamed men for not being cannon fodder, the rising hostility towards men and masculinity in western society, the acceptance and encouragement of double standards in almost all aspects of society, there are many reasons I would never consider myself a feminist.
Thanks for the input! And you're right, it is important to remember failings in regards to intersectionality, especially. It can't be erased if we want to address it and improve as a movement!
My experiences with feminism is that they tend to be very pleasant to be around, provided you go searching for them and don't allow others to tell or show you how they "are". I just wish it was easier to make feminist friends. I want cool people that I can talk to on a personal level whenever the frankly neurotic narrative about feminism on the internet becomes particularly obnoxious and I need to vent. Sometimes that feels a lot more difficult than it should be, which is unfortunate.
Thanks for commenting! For sure the dialogue around gender politics, just in general, can get hostile/tricky to navigate. and we all gotta vent from time to time, girl, don't even worry about it :)
This is a hard one to answer, I personal don't feel the word feminist = gender equality (the watt it sounds and the way I've heard it used). And from my experience with woman who call themselves 'feminists', tend to view woman first over equality and are happy to put men down or put men in their place etc. But don't get me wrong here I 100% support gender equality.
I mean, I am a Feminist. I said as much. So, yes, I suppose, I am "just like one"? I don't agree with your assessment of what that means, but these comments are helping me get a sense of where other people are coming from. My main takeaway so far is that almost all anti-feminists see it as Misandry in disguise. As I said, I don't agree with that, but I do understand the hostility to Feminism in light of this. I may disagree, but my intention is not to be dismissive. I apologize if I made you feel that way.
Well your overly simple "you hate feminism because you don't understand it" is offensive. It assumes I hate something through ignorance instead of acknowledging that maybe I know more than you do about the subject and that the hatred is justified.
You could learn how awful the feminist movement is, with an hour on Google. But you'd have to abandon your love of dictionary definitions and see what feminists actually do and say in the name of feminism.
Prove me wrong, go look up what happened to Erin Pizzey, the lady who invented the concept of a shelter for battered women. Come back and tell us what happened in your own words. And how that gels with your dictionary definition.
And if you do, then realise that there are THOUSANDS of similar cases, which you young kids today, clinging your dictionary definitions to your chest, insisting feminism is a cause for good, are utterly ignorant of. But we're not. And that is why we hate feminism. Not ignorance. But from knowledge & familiarity.
OK-- but that goes both ways. I, in my opinion, have done enough research on the subject, and been involved with the movement enough that I feel confident identifying myself as a Feminist. That's my experience. It isn't less valid than your own. I'm glad that you decided to contribute. Everyone is encouraged to do so, whether they agree with me or not. This is a discussion. It was not my intention to offend you, or call your intelligence into question. However, disagreement is a two-way street. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Best.
I mean, anyone can contribute, here. Like I said, I'm not trying to be hostile or ignore people. But this page has sort of blown up and I also have actual coursework to do, as well. The purpose of this My Take was to open up a conversation. Not go toe-to-toe with everyone who disagrees with me ever, battle-royale style. I'm gonna try to limit my time on this site, personally, but like I said everyone's free to keep commenting. I'll check in from time to time.
Feminism, in definition, is pleasant, but third wave feminists only rely on that definition to redirect the conversation when someone brings up the fact that what feminism is aiming for isn't equality. There are no more dragons to slay, so they make up beasts to slaughter.
It used to be, "Let''s lessen the paygap," and even then, they would have to disadvantage men to do so. Now, quite apparent by the superbowl ad where women attacked men, they want to be paid MORE than men. They'll wear vaginas on their heads to protest Trump but rarely will converse with opposing opinions. One of the many reasons people hate feminism is because some are trying to prevent free speech, and if you've ever watched a public speaker try to talk when they don't hold some people's exact views, that's exactly what they do.
Feminism has become a movement I simply refuse to support, no matter how nice the definition is.
I understand where you're coming from. I do think that women's issues remain relevant, but I can see why you might identify more with the aims of earlier waves. I think that the hostility you're describing is mostly due to poor communication, so thank you for commenting!
I am an independent man with my own money - (and quite well). I'm not a feminist. But there is one thing I do enjoy when it comes to feminism - "openly loose women". I like to fuck and I don't "ever" want a relationship. Feminism makes this a lot easier. Literally I can screw 100's and 100's of females with little repercussions (as long as I wear protection) and still not be viewed as a "dog" in the eyes of women. I only deal with fuck buds, High end escorts, and strippers. This would not be possible without feminists. I'm not praising feminism don't get me wrong. But I enjoy whorish women.
OK, well, not really what I see as the endgame of Feminism but I'm glad that you're enjoying yourself, I guess. Good for you, so long as you're being safe and all.
Who said anything about an end game. I usually just skim over the paragraphs and focus more on the titles. No, let the girls have there way - by exposing "my" weakness they in turn expose their own $$$$.
I really don't see it as being about weakness, do you? I mean as long as you're both adults, consenting and enjoying themselves, how is anyone losing, really?
Who said anything about "losing". Just because I have a weakness to female sexuality doesn't mean that I'm losing. I'm winning. They only get paid from some of my "interest earnings".
@Belgie Yeah, I'm more on the right myself, but I think both sides need each other. Unfortunately, the reasonable left has gone away, and all that is left is ideology, SJWs and whatnot, while the "left" politicians kiss the banksters' ass, destroy the poor, and care more about identity politics than real issues. It's a mess.
@Crapulux Yeah we might disagree on things but we're both of the reasonable "let's talk this thing through like adults" school of thought, where respect is paramount and people can be in disagreement without being "evil".
You agree with feminism because you're a woman, obviously. But if you had to form your opinion from a man's angle though or walk in a man's shoes in other words, you'd quickly realize that things are anything but equal when it comes to men.
The criminal justice system the courts favor women. The divorce courts and system there favor women. The media favors women.
Is that what you call equal? Not me and in fact it has helped me discover MGTOW. And for all the feminist out there, I don't want you, I don't need you, let's just keep a great distance between each other farther the better.
I read an interesting article... see, so many women joined the workforce that the higher supply of workers drove down the price of labor enough that many women who would have preferred to be stay at home moms, simply couldn't because men's earnings were so depressed.
Thanks. Honestly at this point I think we're stuck in something of a catch 22: Both answers to that question mean assuming that one individual must sacrifice their chosen lifestyle for the sake of someone else's. It's a no-win situation. If stay at home moms are forced out of the home by others pursuing careers, they sacrifice their aspirations. If women leave the workforce to support stay at home moms, they sacrifice their aspirations.
Feminism is the worst ideology on this planet since the nazi ideology. It is bad for men especially the disabled. For instance thanks to feminism women are allowed to abort because of disability, thanks to feminism women are more judgmental when it comes to choosing partners so they are more likely to reject because of disability. Thanks to feminism men with disabilities are more likely to go to jail for crimes against women (those crimes mostly committed because of the way women are towards them which is thanks to feminism). Oh and disability issues being pushed to the back because to much emphasize placed on womens rights. Yes feminism is really positive isn't it and I've only mentioned about the negative impact on men with disabilities.
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Opinion Owner
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Looking at your chart, it fails to show that feminism cause both misandry and misogyny.
Uh no. Just no. Third wave feminism has sold a bill of goods to would-be normal young women. It's jut not working out how they thought. Stupid is as stupid does.
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Feminist and MRA's are literally the same type of individuals. They think the world against then and you can't convince them otherwise. So I don't have anything to do with them.
Thanks for raising the issue. You shouldn't feel the need to apologize to everyone for their perceived slights by feminism. And you certainly don't need to acknowledge the viewpoints of clearly delusional people.
Thanks-- I'm fine hearing other opinions, but I will say that a couple of people have set off some warning bells going on about Jews and the media and the like. I appreciate the support!
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I have actually had , at a former workplace ( one I left very quickly !! ) a self proclaimed feminist , that did not even know me at all , snarl at me... because I was the nearest male ..." Men are a cancer , that should be cut out !! " If I had spewed the same venom at women ( I have had a LOT of bad experiences with women , yet I would never sink to the depths of hate ) I would have been instantly fired & also arrested / prosecuted for inciting hate / hate speech.
Feminism started out with good intentions as Womens Liberation , but has been progressively hijacked by the misandrist lunatics , this is no accident , it is another " divide & rule " tool , backed & funded by those that REALLY pull the strings of power ( the Rothschild Cartel ) , look up Agenda 21 ... it has been deliberately engineered.
I'm sorry that you had that experience-- thanks for sharing.
I did as you suggested and did a quick search for Agenda 21, and it looks like it's an... environmental summit? Sorry about the confusion, would you mind clarifying?
Thanks in advance.
Im sorry though but its honestly just nuts how or why on earth many feminist think they own the word equality, an ancient concept that has exsisted for thousands of years and somehow feminism who has exsisted for how long?, less than a century anyway I would assume, seem to think they own the word.
You can so easily be for equality without having to be labeled as a feminist. Its no different than say a christian telling a muslim or buddist or whatever that he is christian cause he believes in "God". You honestly just shit on peoples believe by doing so, and you shit on peoples experience and views regarding feminism to by trying to label them as such if they are against it, not to mention when the vast majority if not all are against it cause its not a movement that cares about equality. From their experience and viewpoint anyway, and based on my experience too that sure as hell seem damn true.
I apologize you you feel like Feminism is invalidating other movements-- that really isn't the aim, at least for me.
Plenty of causes work for equality. I'm not at all denying that!
Not movements really, just people, but im sure they do that too. I believe you, but considring all the bad feminism have done, so much screwed up stuff too, like crashing conventions where guys was gonna talk about suicide, but werent allowed to talk about that cause men are trash and should be shot etc, sending bomb threaths to close these things down, not to mention killallmen hashtag and what not. Point is anyway, so many scream that the "patriarchy" is trying to silence them but they try to silence everyone else, men aren't allowed to talk about their problems. Then of course you have nutjobs like Anita sarkessian who scam and manipulate people and silence/ban anyone who provide facts.
Either way again, furhter points, I can't think of any group that has more sexsist, vile and disugsting people in it, why anyone would want to be part of a group like that I dont know, but as long as the individual themselves dont hurt people, at least its something.
I don't deny that some Feminists are problematic. That sort of thing is genuinely troubling. But I'm pretty sure the killallmen hashtag is ironic-- actually sort of parodying the perception of Feminism as hateful/militant, believe it or not.
I do find it sort of hard to think that we're the actually worst though. I mean, you know there are actual Nazis out there, right. Not "FemiNazis". Like, just Nazis.
Thanks for being open minded to individuals, at least, that does go a long way!
Most of the big named feminists in todays society are problematic like that, whatever or whoever that is good in that movement get drowned out by all the bad no doubt. It certainly didn't start that way, maybe it got changed like that eventually perhaps.
Yeah which is pretty sad, like from what I seen the reccent years, take KKK, they been nowhere as bad as feminists. Feminism have done way more harm then they could even if they tried with all their might. The nazis are at least generally honest with themselves, problem with many feminists again is that they hide their cruelty behind "equality" and "good deeds" when in reality they do the opposite.
Oh you welcome of course, always open to at least meeting any feminist who isent sexsist for example, would say I met 1 girl a while ago here who didn't seem like it, so am down to 98% now that are sexist (from experience), cause yeah I met about 50, 49 of them were yeah, simply sexsist.
You get that Nazis systematically murdered people, right? My people?
And the KKK straight up murders people. I get that Feminism has some issues but I feel like that's objectively worse?
In the past sure, but in this age, not so much. Hell, I dont think I seen anything anywhere that the kkk has killed anyone say recent 7years, but I have seen several cases of people killing the KKK. Their movement is rather small today. But speaking of nazi, is kinda why the whole "femi-nazi" thing exsist too, cause of the similiarities.
Although for the record, the nazi killed "my people" too.
OK, then, you should know that comparing people to Nazis isn't constructive, or something to be taken lightly.
The Nazis committed actual genocide. Nothing comes close to that, or is at all comparable, unless we're talking about other genocidal regimes-- not gender politics.
You don't strike me as someone with bad intentions, and I'm sure you mean well. So no offense meant. But that comparison always comes across as inappropriate.
It was you who brought that up though, I was talking mainly about the KKK, only few things I mention about the nazi was that they were generally honest/raw with their motives, while feminism isent, wasent saying one was worse or better, only pointing out a few differences.
Its not as simple nor easily dismissed as just gender politics you know. Like this one story about this one kid who got blamed for a rape he didn't commit (the girl made it all up) the community, feminists, SJW, schools, community etc ended up pushing him so far he ended up killing himself. An in the u. k feminists was in a uproar about changing the law that would include females as rapists too (but they can't be rapists apparently), so last I heard the law was the same. If you think thats all there is, ideas, politics etc, just no. People do actually suffer from it.
Dont have to tell me, I lost family from the nazi.
I'm really, truly sorry for your loss. I am.
If you know the statistics about rape, you know that a tiny percentage of rape accusations are false ones. So many more rapists are never brought to justice. That means that for every sad story like the one you just told me, so so so many more go like this: Someone is violated, and they don't get justice.
That's a problem, too. That needs to be addressed, too. So yes, I think we need Feminism.
Thank you, but before my time anyway, although ironically (somewhat) Me today have actually suffered from that past, my grandfather for example actually joined the nazis (out of fear though, but still) when the germans invaded our country, but as you know. THe sins of the father. Family for generations I guess then got to suffer cause of his choice, cause naturally nobody is fond of a traier, im not either. But past is past too, is not correct to punish todays people for it, like naturally too so many of the germans who fought for this cause was just people too who would lose their family if they didn't fight.
Anyway, but yeah personally I think the system is just idiotic when it comes to rape, like nobody wants to go through all the trauma they experienced with say a court and what not. In my opinion the rape victim could say get a counsler/therapist/psychologist or whatever, so they get to share their story in a safe enviroment -
instead of being jugded, doubted and questioned in court, like it isent traumatic enough on its own to be raped, and then they are supposed to live through that for months as the court goes through, yeah no way. Why most choose not to pursue it, its not worth it, nor your sanity. Its "easier" to try and get over the rape an trauma than to live through it, over an over, day after day trying to get the rapist convicted for their crime. Needs to be a better system. But yeah I know yes, and suprisingly too, here anyway, last I checked it was as many as 40-45% of the rape victims was male even, suprised me even really. Although sadly too, false accusations just get more an more frequent too.
It really is sad-- no doubt the system is broken and needs some serious changes!
Sorry brain error, I meant that this psychologist or whatever could speak on behalf of the victim in court, so the rape victim didn't have to do it. And would also kinda think at least, that a professional could perhaps tell the difference too of what is a false accusation and what is a real one, but yeah just my idea anyway.
Can agree on that yes. Thank you again for the empathy though. Hope you have a good night/day still :)
You too!
Here is your problem in a nutshell. You choose to see only the dictionary definition of feminism and ignore the REALITY of what feminism has actually been DOING for the last 30 years. If feminism were actually what you seem to believe it is, virtually every man would support it. But the REALITY of feminism is far from what you think it is, and it is the REALITY of feminism that men experience every day.
Bottom line: men are hostile toward feminism because feminism has been and continues to be hostile toward men. If you cannot open your eyes wide enough to see that REALITY, you will never get it.
I disagree, respectfully.
I see where you are coming from, but I also believe that Feminism is what we make it. We each have a say in what it means for us.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, though.
Your take here is a shining example of the lack of honesty that characterizes feminism today. When feminism begins to display some honesty about itself and the realities of gender issues, men will come to the table to talk. But as of this moment, feminism, is a long, long, long way from that.
And so things will continue as they always have, with more and more women seeing what feminism is and leaving the movement, and feminists like you left standing there wondering what has happened. Pick up a mirror.
I'm sorry if I struck you as dishonest. Most of my male friends consider themselves to be feminists, but perhaps we've just had different experiences.
Thank you for sharing.
I don't hold feminism up as perfect. Certainly we've had our failings, especially in regards to inclusion. But we've also accomplished a great deal!
You're obviously welcome to your opinion, but personally I'm not giving up just yet!
I know very few guys who are feminists, for what most men would consider very obvious reasons. The few I do know are pretty odd human beings.
But you hit the nail on the head when you said we've had different experiences. Part of the problem with feminists is the extremely gynocentric perspective they have. They only seem capable of seeing things through very biased female lenses. If you could take those glasses off and actually spend a day in a man's shoes, you would feel very different about it. That is what is missing from feminism.
You feminists have your notions of equality that benefit you but not men. Anyone with a little intellectual honesty can easily see that Western feminism has nothing at all to do with true equality.
It's true that I don't know what it's like to be a man. But neither, I expect, do you know what it's like to be a woman.
That's why I think discussions like this can be important. We all have such different experiences and perspectives, and we'll never understand each other unless we voice them.
Having read a few of your responses here I can see you are not interested in discussion at all, just disagreeing with those who don't share your views. Yep, you're a feminist.
I'm sorry for having come across that way. I've certainly disagreed with some of what I've read, but I did not intend to shut them down-- I only meant to explain my own viewpoint. I'm sorry if that offended you.
Quick question though-- do non-feminists agree with the people who don't share their views? Because that seems somewhat odd, tbh. And more than a little contradictory. And also not what you're doing at all.
I am not the one who wrote this: "Neither Person A nor Person B understand each other. Feminism becomes a dirty word. Nobody really communicates or learns anything." So your comment about being contradictory seems a little... well, contradictory.
Feminism became a dirty word because feminism made it one. PLease don't try to suggest it was anyone else's fault. There is 30 years or more of history behind what I just said. Do you really not see that? Really?
It's one thing to call out hostility that stems from simple miscommunication.
This doesn't mean that people can't have conflicting opinions. I understand that you disagree with me. That's fine. But opening up a dialogue, and then not doing a total 180 on my beliefs doesn't make me self-contradictory, or close minded. I was upfront in the My Take about being a feminist. That I defend Feminism shouldn't come as a surprise. It also doesn't mean that I don't want to understand others. Your comments, have, believe it or not, been insightful.
That said, I am a little offended by your tone, which is frankly coming across as patronizing. I disagree with you, but I never suggested you lack a grasp on reality. I'd appreciate if you afforded me the same courtesy. Thanks.
Patronizing? I find it pretty ironic that a feminist is going to chastise anyone for being patronizing.
Look, I am treating you with more respect and courtesy here than the vast majority of feminists afford most men, and frankly with more than any woman who identifies as a feminist today deserves considering how feminists typically behave.
So, respectfully, I will tell you that I'm not bothered one bit by you taking offense at what I have written here.
"Patronizing? I find it pretty ironic that a feminist is going to chastise anyone for being patronizing. "
"[...] frankly with more than any woman who identifies as a feminist today deserves considering how feminists typically behave."
... This isn't patronizing? Are we not reading the same post you literally just... you know what, never mind. Thanks for trying to talk to me like I was an individual person, or whatever, even if it was so much more than I deserved.
Have a good night, I guess.
If you reread what I wrote you will see I said nothing about me not being patronizing. My point was to point out the irony of a feminist giving anyone else a hard time for something that is typical feminist behavior. You feminists have another thing coming if you just expect men to treat you respectfully after the way you have treated men for so long. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.
Cheers
OK but you literally just said that I don't deserve to be treated with respect how is that not patronizing please explain.
Asking for a friend.
Again, I did not say that I was not being patronizing. I'm not sure why you keep saying that.
What I was trying to say is that someone who chooses to support a group of people who regularly treats men disrespectfully does not deserve respect. Would you not agree?
Please pass that along to your friend.
OK, if you don't see how telling someone they don't deserve to be treated respectfully is patronizing, I really don't know what to tell you. Not sure what else to say, here.
I do respect men. Believe it or not, some of my best friends are men. I'm even related to several men.
I... DID... NOT... SAY... I... WAS... NOT... BEING... PATRONIZING. Which part of that are you struggling with?
How can you say you respect men yet choose to support a movement that clearly does not respect men? That makes no sense. If you support gender equality, why do you support a movement that does NOT support that ideal?
I didn't say you said you were patronizing. I said that what you said was patronizing, not that you said what you said was-- oh gosh, let's just both try to say all this three times fast and whoever pulls it off wins the argument, OK?
That's your opinion of Feminism. I don't see it as being anti-men at all. In fact, I see it as helping men as well as women. Certainly some feminists hate men, but then some Republicans are racists. Doesn't mean Republicanism is.
We seem to disagree on what certain terms mean. I think that's the real issue here, honestly.
Let me say it another way... I was being patronizing and I never denied it. I just don;t know where you got the idea I was saying otherwise.
My opinion of feminism is based on my experience with feminism. That is true of every man, and it;s why 95% of men do not support feminism. It is frankly astonishing to me that a woman, in this day and age, cannot see why men hate feminism. Absolutely astonishing. It's as if we live on different planets.
I don't entirely understand why you think what you do, either. That's why we, you know, have different opinions. Which isn't crazy.
Feminism clearly means different things to us. The reason this isn't going anywhere is because we, on a fundamental level, have different understandings of a term. It's not about actual opinions, or ideals. You can get someone to see your point of view in regards to an opinion. But because we disagree over what a word means-- well, I think that's the issue.
Let's make up a word. How about "Mjfihkaenf". Who knows, maybe it exists. If it does, my money's says it's an Icelandic volcano.
The point is if I know that Mjfihkaenf means water, and you know it means fire, we can't actually debate the point until we agree. It's not that sort of disagreement.
I could be wrong, but I think that's probably why this is so frustrating.
It's the behavior that matters, not the word. When Mjfihkaenfs behave the way feminists have behaved toward men, they do not deserve respect regardless of what the dictionary says. A person can say "I support equality" and "I respect men" all they want, but when their behavior clearly shows the opposite to be true, that is all that matters.
Almost everyone I know supports equality, both men and women, but the people I have encountered who were the most sexist and biased with respect to gender issues were almost invariably feminists. Tell me, why should I support such a movement? Why would I want to?
I think that Feminism has made some fantastic strides throughout history. The legacy of the movement is important to me, and so is the future.
If you hate the word "Feminism", I'm sorry. I can't make you change your mind anymore than you can make me change mine. The important thing is that you support equality. We both do. The movement, for me, is a very positive one and I'd like to encourage more people to get involved. But I'm not out here trying to get you to save your soul, or whatever. How you label yourself is ultimately your decision, and while I'm open to debate I'm not gonna try to force you to do anything.
I'm not going to assume that you treat women like shit just because you won't call yourself a Feminist. Please don't assume that I hate men just because I do call myself a Feminist.
Thanks.
Yes, it's true that feminism accomplished some positive things many, many years ago. But the net effect of feminism today and over the last couple of decades is overwhelmingly negative. For you to say "The movement, for me, is a very positive one" that means you are OK with accepting all the harm it does. To me, that is unforgivable.
There is no future of feminism. The movement has been in the toilet for years and the only people who support it are bigots and people who condone bigotry. There is no place in the world for that today. It has no future.
I do not personally treat an entire gender like shit, nor do I support any movement that does. Can you claim the same? If not, you're doing something wrong.
Of course I claim the same. I said that I believe in equality, and I meant it.
Clearly our perceptions of what Feminism is are different. I cannot defend what you believe Feminism is because I don't believe in it. Plain and simple.
By the way, I do not support MRAs either because they have simply become the mirror image of feminism. But let's be clear that they exist ONLY because of the sexism of feminism. If feminism went away today, as it should, MRAs would disappear tomorrow. Both feed off each other and are just becoming more and more extreme. That will only continue until we dismiss the gender-centric movements and adopt one that actually gives a fuck about BOTH genders.
Feminism has always been about advancing women's interests, regardless of men's. That is NOT equality. Feminism has never been about equality and it never will be. That was acceptable 50 years ago but it's not today. That is the root of feminism's problems and why feminism will never be legitimate or relevant in the West again.
I can tell that you're coming from a good place. I like to think that I am too. You want a movement that cares about everyone. For me that movement is Feminism. I think of the patriarchy as hurting men just as surely as it does women.
But we're going in circles, here. I appreciate you providing your viewpoint. However, this comment thread has turned into, essentially: "NO I DIDN'T" "YES YOU DID" "NO I DIDN'T" "YES YOU DID", not real debate, and it doesn't strike me as particularly constructive.
"Of course I claim the same."
No, you support feminism and therefore you cannot claim the same. That is very dishonest of you. You cannot say you support feminism and support equality any more than I can say I support Nazism and I support human rights. Both are impossible.
You are in denial about what feminism is. You want to believe it is something that it isn't. That goes beyond naivete because it hurts people. You need to open your eyes.
Please stop comparing Feminism to Nazism. Those sort of comparisons shut discourse down, they don't actually contribute.
Moreover, having relatives who are survivors, it's deeply hurtful and insulting. I'm open to hearing differing opinions, but please have some respect. Genocide isn't something you use to make a point in an online argument. Please, don't.
Nazism and modern feminism share similar ideologies, but have acted on them differently. The biggest difference is that Nazis had a charismatic psychopath as a leader who actually acted on his bigotry. It's naive to dismiss the similarities. But the point is that you cannot say you are a "good feminist" any more than you can say you are a "good Nazi". If you support the movement, you support what it does. You cannot pick and choose. I'm sorry if that offends you but it's a fair statement.
OK-- who does it hurt. Who does it really hurt, like on a level that you think Nazi comparisons are appropriate? You keep talking about the reality of feminism, or "what it's actually done".
What. Are. You. Talking about.
I've experienced feminism. I've been to rallies. Taken classes. Gone to the lectures.
And believe it or not, we never actually discussed male death camps or genocide-- like, not even once. Or rounding up men. Or killing your puppy, or getting your girlfriend to dump you, or whatever else it is you think we did.
Look, I'm sorry. I got mad. But you trivialize the Holocaust, and the gloves come off pal.
No, I do not trivialize the actions of one by comparing the similar ideologies of the two. That's just silly. And yes, members of my family died in the Holocaust too. I’m not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings or minimize anyone’s loss. It is a fair comparison and there is a reason it is made as often as it is.
Children raised without a father are at much higher risk of a plethora of social and emotional problems, including much higher rates of depression, suicide, drug use and criminality. And yet feminists lobby against fathers' rights, support the idea that fathers are unimportant and encourage single mothers. Feminism has supported the destruction of marriage and the nuclear family. Who knows how many millions of people have been harmed by that.
And yet feminists riot and protest and try to shut down speakers who try to bring awareness to suicide and men’s issues. They deny and marginalize the real issues men face but then say “oh no, we support men’s rights because feminism makes it so men can talk about their feelings”. Spare me!
Three generations of boys have been raised with the ever-present feminist messages that they are irrelevant, unnecessary and should feel guilty that they are male. That’s because feminism tries to boost women up by dragging men down.
Feminists belittle women who choose to be stay-at-home mothers, despite the fact that those mothers’ children are better off as a result. In fact, feminists belittle women who don’t toe the party line in every way.
Feminism mostly is responsible for the horrible state of affairs of gender relations in the West. Feminism has driven a wedge between men and women and it will take a very long time to repair that damage, if it’s possible at all.
Feminist influence has resulted in the feminization of our public school system and as a result boys are not served well by the school system. The program is tailored to females and males get left behind and branded as trouble makers. When confronted about it most feminists deny it is a problem despite the enormous impact it has on half the population and society as a whole.
In France, feminists pushed through a law that makes it illegal for a “father” to request a paternity test if the mother does not consent to it. The rationale is that society benefits when men are forced to pay for the raising of a child when they are not the father.
My cousins are twins, one guy one girl. They are both in college now, although she is on full ride scholarship simply because she is female but he has to work to pay his tuition. He was better is every respect, academically, behaviorally, he volunteered in the community and she didn’t, he played volleyball and she did nothing but school and friends. And yet, because she is a female she is eligible for all kinds of scholarships and financial aid that is not available to him because he is male, all this despite the fact that only 40% of college students and graduates at all levels are male anymore. You better believe that feminism is pushing to keep that status quo.
Shall I go on, or are you ready to begin bringing on the denial?
But wait... that's "not real feminism", right? Well guess what, it's the feminism that has impacted men and society for decades. It's the ONLY real feminism from any practical standpoint. You can support whatever you want in your little college clubs, but the only thing that matters is what feminism DOES, and what it has been DOING for many years is overwhelmingly negative and destructive. That is what men actually experience with feminism, and why we have every reason and right to hate it.
I need to add that there is nothing quite as insulting to men as feminists like Emma Watson and her HeForShe crap saying men should support feminism because we're all in this together and should be on the same side. WTF? That's like the wolf telling the sheep "come on, we all want the same thing, let's help each other out here". Feminists want men to support feminism for their own selfish reasons that have NOTHING to do whatsoever with the welfare of the other half of the human race.
I'm sorry, but men too are sick and tired of the sexism and hypocrisy of feminism to ever support it again. Feminism has utterly poisoned the gender debate and nothing good will come from pretending it is still a viable force for positive change. It's time to see feminism for what it really is. We need to bury it 6 feet under and start the gender discussion from scratch without the baggage, preconceived biases and outright dishonesty of feminism.
My experience in discussing feminism with women in the real world is that most of them, like @Kirah, see feminism for what it really is and refuse to support it. What is it, ms powerwoman, that blinds you to the facts that are so obvious to the rest of us?
OK-- your experience has not been my experience. I don't consider myself blinded, I've just had very different experiences... Feminism is not generally considered negative by those in my day to day life.
As I've said before, I don't see this particular thread becoming constructive soon. I've told you what I believe about Feminism. You've done the same.
I'm in no way telling you to leave, or be quiet, or whatever. This is an open forum, obviously. I did feel like a line had been crossed, and I was offended. I'm sorry for your own losses-- But as a Jew, I personally just consider such comparisons inappropriate. Period.
I'm going to take a step back, for now. I hope you don't see this as me ignoring you to be rude, but the tone of this particular back and forth doesn't seem to be improving and I have an exam in two days. Have a good evening.
So, you asked me what harm feminism does and I gave you a list of examples, and now you're telling me you are going to "take a step back" rather than do your part and respond? It would be pretty difficult to spin that as anything but a giant cop out, and I do not accept that. I respectfully ask you to respond to what I wrote per your request. I would also ask you to provide some specific examples of positive things feminism has actually accomplished in the US over the last 5 years to justify your support for a movement that clearly does so much harm. No rush... I'll be patient.
I noticed that you have also not responded specifically to Kirah's point about the misandry of the largest feminist organization in the US. Why not?
When I started this forum, I wanted to start discussion. That’s all well and good. But the fact is that I’m also a college student with a full course load, and I never pledged to make to time to get back to everyone on each of their bullet points. This is an open discussion, not a Q & A. I’ll go ahead and make that disclaimer right now.
Personally, I decided to focus on common ground. I don’t agree with all the “evidence” that’s been brought up, but engaging in a back and forth over it is simply not something I always want to spend my time doing.
I’m not doing this to try to be rude, or ignore people. I focus on common ground when I see it because it feels like a better use of time, and a way of bringing positivity to the discussion. I’m not sure what you want me to say in response to statements like “You’re wrong/blind/ignorant—open your eyes!”. This isn’t so much discussion as it is scolding me, so I can fire back and be an “Angry Feminist Bitch”, or move on to other ideas.
For example, I will say that I thought you raised an interesting point about education. I can, to extent, relate having struggled with ADHD and Dysgraphia as a child—I didn’t feel like the education was set up for me, either.
I’ve looked into accessibility in education for several classes, and had discussions with educators in my family—I can’t say that my takeaway was that Feminists who “Feminized” schools are to blame. But I do agree that education should be made more accessible to a wider range of kids.
I’m not a full-time blogger, or writer. There are plenty of Feminists out there who DO write for a living, so if you’re interested check them out. There’s a lot of great literature out there if you’re interested. Personally, when I get tired of theory, I’ve been enjoying Roxane Gay. She’s a fun read.
Again, I don't mean to brush you or Kirah off. Best.
That's what I figured. Feminists will typically say things like "feminism is overwhelmingly positive" but quickly go into cop out and denial mode when the discussion gets down to specific examples and facts that clearly show it is actually very negative. It's pretty hard to have a productive discussion under those conditions.
Your take was about the notion that miscommunication is to blame for "misunderstandings" about feminism. It's not miscommunication at all; it's people choosing to wear blinders and being content to remain in denial and a state of willful ignorance rather than seeing things for what they really are.
Best
Reproductive justice is important to me. Safe, affordable abortion simply isn’t accessible to a number of women, and in my opinion the right to choose is being threatened in the U. S. by the current administration. Unrealistic body-image standards contribute to eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia—they’re literally hurting people. Sexual violence and harassment affects millions of Americans—and many women, who are most often but not always the victims, are shamed for speaking out. I consider these points, among others, to be relevant issues. That’s not even to mention the status of women globally.
Feminism is not about tearing apart families, or telling boys that they don’t matter. You clearly believe it is. Feminism didn’t drive a wedge between men and women. It was a RESPONSE to rampart sexism in our society, which didn’t magically disappear and then get reinvented anew by Feminists.
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I can’t control what you think about these things, and me not wanting to waste my time trying isn’t a “cop out”. Frankly, you’ve repeatedly told me that I’m blind to the truth/wrong about everything—how is that not a cop-out? How are you not "in denial mode", whenever I express my opinion?
If you don’t want to agree with me, fine. But please stop acting as though I’ve slighted you by doing the same.
I really hope this satisfies you, but I’ll live either way. Have a good one, Anonymous.
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Satisfies me? No, not at all, nor does it surprise me. Your responses are typical of the denial and intellectual dishonesty we have come to expect from feminists like you.
In short, you are what is wrong with feminism and why men (and most women) hate the movement today. Key takeaway here: the problem is the dishonesty and bias of feminists, not a lack of communication, as you suggest.
Every day, fewer and fewer people support feminism, and that will only continue until some honesty finds its way into the movement. But that is never going to happen; instead, feminism will be discarded as an irretrievably broken movement and will be replaced by one that is not so gynocentric, dishonest and anti-male, one that genuinely cares about and advocates for the rights and needs of both genders.
Cheers
I think the people you need to speak to are women. The fact is that most women, even the ones that call themselves feminists, don't really believe in feminism. and yes, we all know there are exceptions to every rule. but you ask most of these women if they go after men when dating, or pay for dates, and you get "oh, I would never do that, I believe in tradition." Sorry, nope. You can't have it both ways. Either your a feminist or not. If your sitting back waiting for the guy to come after you, your not a feminist. If you look down on the guy because he wants you to at least pay for one date, your not a feminist.
Unfortunately, The men hating feminazi's have seriously hurt your cause. Because most of us men hear the word feminism and such vile hate comes to mind that we don't want anything to do with those women.
There is a difference between third wave feminism and Egalitarianism. What you are describing is Egalitarianism. I don't consider myself a feminist because feminism has already shown it's true colors (Misandry, bias, believes one sex is superior to the other, and it only cares about certain people) despite what it's definition says. Egalitarianism on the other hand, is true equality. Egalitarianism is something I have a lot of respect for.
Thanks for your input-- I disagree, but I definitely get where you're coming from!
I am not a feminist and never will be. I do believe people should be treated fair tho. But from every feminist I met doesn't want that. They want special treatment, and in all honestly they actually get it. It's not equality, it's really female superiority. So why the fuck would I support that? On top of that most women who support it are cunts. They don't listen to any idea but their own. They like forcing their idea on others. And a lot hate men even if they say other wise. For example how many times have I heard "teach men not to rape", as if all men are rapists. Men aren't rapists, rapists are rapists. Calling an entire gender something so horrible is just going to make members of that gender dislike you, not listen to you, and ultimately not give a shit about you. Feminism isn't the answer it is actually part of the problem.
I do agree with you on this point-- the common rape narrative needs to change. It's insulting to both men and women.
This idea that men are like animals who can't help but rape women is really toxic , not only because it is degrading but bc it places blame on victims for not doing more to avoid the "inevitable". Not to mention a lack of acknowledgement for male victims.
To my understanding, when Feminists say "teach men not to rape", it's meant to flip the script on victim blamers who ask women what they were wearing, etc "teach women not to get raped" being the implication.
Of course men aren't all rapists. I don't agree with you on Feminism overall, but for sure people who insist that men will inevitably rape a women are a HUGE part of the problem.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Fact is men are under attack from feminists all the time at work, at home, in sports, in the courts, in colleges and a lot of women who are pro equality between the sexes see how unfair it can be for men In modern society and sympathise and want to stick up for men and be fair towards them as after all every woman is some man's wife, girlfriend, mother, daughter, sister, cousin, aunt, grandmother and friend. Think about it if you were the mother and your son was falsely accused of rape or the divorce court made a sexist decision about custody of his kids, family home, savings, alimony, property and child support payments.
I suppose that I would a feminist, based on the definition you provided but there is more to a word than just it's definition. There are connotations attached to feminism that I want no part of.
For example: The racism of the suffragettes, the suffragettes who shamed men for not being cannon fodder, the rising hostility towards men and masculinity in western society, the acceptance and encouragement of double standards in almost all aspects of society, there are many reasons I would never consider myself a feminist.
Thanks for the input! And you're right, it is important to remember failings in regards to intersectionality, especially. It can't be erased if we want to address it and improve as a movement!
My experiences with feminism is that they tend to be very pleasant to be around, provided you go searching for them and don't allow others to tell or show you how they "are". I just wish it was easier to make feminist friends. I want cool people that I can talk to on a personal level whenever the frankly neurotic narrative about feminism on the internet becomes particularly obnoxious and I need to vent. Sometimes that feels a lot more difficult than it should be, which is unfortunate.
Thanks for commenting! For sure the dialogue around gender politics, just in general, can get hostile/tricky to navigate. and we all gotta vent from time to time, girl, don't even worry about it :)
Well there a reason why sometimes we need to get offline because people who act like trolls or are morons can get to your sanity :).
This is a hard one to answer, I personal don't feel the word feminist = gender equality (the watt it sounds and the way I've heard it used). And from my experience with woman who call themselves 'feminists', tend to view woman first over equality and are happy to put men down or put men in their place etc. But don't get me wrong here I 100% support gender equality.
OK-- thanks for sharing, and well said!
You could, IF YOU WERE GENUINELY INTERESTED find out why feminists have a deservedly toxic reputation.
But you aren't interested in that.
You are just being a hypocrite, trying to ignore history and facts and appeal to the No True Scotsman fallacy.
So, just like a feminist really. Hostile to facts and dismissive of others opinions.
I mean, I am a Feminist. I said as much. So, yes, I suppose, I am "just like one"?
I don't agree with your assessment of what that means, but these comments are helping me get a sense of where other people are coming from. My main takeaway so far is that almost all anti-feminists see it as Misandry in disguise. As I said, I don't agree with that, but I do understand the hostility to Feminism in light of this.
I may disagree, but my intention is not to be dismissive. I apologize if I made you feel that way.
Well your overly simple "you hate feminism because you don't understand it" is offensive. It assumes I hate something through ignorance instead of acknowledging that maybe I know more than you do about the subject and that the hatred is justified.
You could learn how awful the feminist movement is, with an hour on Google. But you'd have to abandon your love of dictionary definitions and see what feminists actually do and say in the name of feminism.
Prove me wrong, go look up what happened to Erin Pizzey, the lady who invented the concept of a shelter for battered women. Come back and tell us what happened in your own words. And how that gels with your dictionary definition.
And if you do, then realise that there are THOUSANDS of similar cases, which you young kids today, clinging your dictionary definitions to your chest, insisting feminism is a cause for good, are utterly ignorant of. But we're not. And that is why we hate feminism. Not ignorance. But from knowledge & familiarity.
OK-- but that goes both ways.
I, in my opinion, have done enough research on the subject, and been involved with the movement enough that I feel confident identifying myself as a Feminist. That's my experience. It isn't less valid than your own.
I'm glad that you decided to contribute. Everyone is encouraged to do so, whether they agree with me or not. This is a discussion. It was not my intention to offend you, or call your intelligence into question.
However, disagreement is a two-way street. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Best.
So, you didn't bother learning about her or dealing with the request for your explanation. Just like I thought.
Some discussion.
I mean, anyone can contribute, here. Like I said, I'm not trying to be hostile or ignore people. But this page has sort of blown up and I also have actual coursework to do, as well.
The purpose of this My Take was to open up a conversation. Not go toe-to-toe with everyone who disagrees with me ever, battle-royale style.
I'm gonna try to limit my time on this site, personally, but like I said everyone's free to keep commenting. I'll check in from time to time.
Sure, drop in, tell us all we're wrong, pretend there's nothing wrong with that, then go away with a promise to drop by from time to time.
I won't hold my breath, thanks.
Feminism, in definition, is pleasant, but third wave feminists only rely on that definition to redirect the conversation when someone brings up the fact that what feminism is aiming for isn't equality. There are no more dragons to slay, so they make up beasts to slaughter.
It used to be, "Let''s lessen the paygap," and even then, they would have to disadvantage men to do so. Now, quite apparent by the superbowl ad where women attacked men, they want to be paid MORE than men. They'll wear vaginas on their heads to protest Trump but rarely will converse with opposing opinions. One of the many reasons people hate feminism is because some are trying to prevent free speech, and if you've ever watched a public speaker try to talk when they don't hold some people's exact views, that's exactly what they do.
Feminism has become a movement I simply refuse to support, no matter how nice the definition is.
I understand where you're coming from. I do think that women's issues remain relevant, but I can see why you might identify more with the aims of earlier waves.
I think that the hostility you're describing is mostly due to poor communication, so thank you for commenting!
I am an independent man with my own money - (and quite well). I'm not a feminist. But there is one thing I do enjoy when it comes to feminism - "openly loose women". I like to fuck and I don't "ever" want a relationship. Feminism makes this a lot easier. Literally I can screw 100's and 100's of females with little repercussions (as long as I wear protection) and still not be viewed as a "dog" in the eyes of women. I only deal with fuck buds, High end escorts, and strippers. This would not be possible without feminists. I'm not praising feminism don't get me wrong. But I enjoy whorish women.
OK, well, not really what I see as the endgame of Feminism but I'm glad that you're enjoying yourself, I guess. Good for you, so long as you're being safe and all.
Who said anything about an end game. I usually just skim over the paragraphs and focus more on the titles. No, let the girls have there way - by exposing "my" weakness they in turn expose their own $$$$.
I really don't see it as being about weakness, do you? I mean as long as you're both adults, consenting and enjoying themselves, how is anyone losing, really?
Who said anything about "losing". Just because I have a weakness to female sexuality doesn't mean that I'm losing. I'm winning. They only get paid from some of my "interest earnings".
Okie-dokie well thanks for sharing.
No prob.
Ridiculous liberal propaganda. Your feminist brainwashing will NOT work on me ✋
Also that image was probably the worst image for feminism. Here I'll fix it for you.
Woman > Man (Misogynist)
Woman < Man (FEMINIST)
Woman = Man (Egalitarian)
There you go. You're welcome
Thanks for contributing, I guess.
Hey don't associate liberals with this toxic shit. I'm as liberal as you like but think feminists are living cancers on society.
@Belgie it is important to make the difference between classical liberals (nearly extinct) and libtards (all over the place).
@Crapulux i agree though i call them neoliberals myself to match thematically with neoconservatives.
And just because we're old doesn't mean we're extinct. Jaded into silence perhaps but still here.
@Belgie Yeah, I'm more on the right myself, but I think both sides need each other. Unfortunately, the reasonable left has gone away, and all that is left is ideology, SJWs and whatnot, while the "left" politicians kiss the banksters' ass, destroy the poor, and care more about identity politics than real issues. It's a mess.
@Crapulux Yeah we might disagree on things but we're both of the reasonable "let's talk this thing through like adults" school of thought, where respect is paramount and people can be in disagreement without being "evil".
You agree with feminism because you're a woman, obviously. But if you had to form your opinion from a man's angle though or walk in a man's shoes in other words, you'd quickly realize that things are anything but equal when it comes to men.
The criminal justice system the courts favor women. The divorce courts and system there favor women. The media favors women.
Is that what you call equal? Not me and in fact it has helped me discover MGTOW. And for all the feminist out there, I don't want you, I don't need you, let's just keep a great distance between each other farther the better.
Very well said.
@bobbyxx Thank you!
I read an interesting article... see, so many women joined the workforce that the higher supply of workers drove down the price of labor enough that many women who would have preferred to be stay at home moms, simply couldn't because men's earnings were so depressed.
Could you maybe provide a link? I can see why you view that as an issue. However, are injustices OK just because they benefit some people.
To be clear, I have nothing against stay at home moms. I totally respect that choice, it's a tough and important job no doubt!
But is it far to limit someone else's options for the sake of their own?
I'll get the link, no worries.
Is it fair to force other people into the workforce for your aspirations?
Thanks. Honestly at this point I think we're stuck in something of a catch 22:
Both answers to that question mean assuming that one individual must sacrifice their chosen lifestyle for the sake of someone else's. It's a no-win situation.
If stay at home moms are forced out of the home by others pursuing careers, they sacrifice their aspirations.
If women leave the workforce to support stay at home moms, they sacrifice their aspirations.
Feminism is the worst ideology on this planet since the nazi ideology. It is bad for men especially the disabled. For instance thanks to feminism women are allowed to abort because of disability, thanks to feminism women are more judgmental when it comes to choosing partners so they are more likely to reject because of disability. Thanks to feminism men with disabilities are more likely to go to jail for crimes against women (those crimes mostly committed because of the way women are towards them which is thanks to feminism). Oh and disability issues being pushed to the back because to much emphasize placed on womens rights. Yes feminism is really positive isn't it and I've only mentioned about the negative impact on men with disabilities.
Looking at your chart, it fails to show that feminism cause both misandry and misogyny.
Uh no. Just no. Third wave feminism has sold a bill of goods to would-be normal young women. It's jut not working out how they thought. Stupid is as stupid does.
Feminist and MRA's are literally the same type of individuals. They think the world against then and you can't convince them otherwise. So I don't have anything to do with them.
I'm sorry you feel that way-- personally I view Feminism as positive/empowering. But thanks for sharing!
I'm sorry you feel the way you do to. ..
We really aren't. This assertion is comical.
@MlleCake not as comical as feminist and MRA's.
Thanks for raising the issue. You shouldn't feel the need to apologize to everyone for their perceived slights by feminism. And you certainly don't need to acknowledge the viewpoints of clearly delusional people.
Thanks-- I'm fine hearing other opinions, but I will say that a couple of people have set off some warning bells going on about Jews and the media and the like. I appreciate the support!