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Dear MGTOWs and Hardcore Feminists... (Page 2)
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"Not all women are gold-diggers/not all men are misogynists"
that's true
Thank you. It's always appreciated when people think rationally and understand not everybody is the same
Both sides are idiots at times and if they're working so hard against each other it's hard to find any common ground and it discredits the genuine points that both feminists and men's rights campainers have. As a man I feel the term "men's rights" is too associated with opposing feminism at all costs rather than focussing on true Men's issues to be comfortable identifying with the subject.
Agreed and the rare times you have the more level headed on either side try to find common ground or focus on their issues you have the more extremist on either side protesting or demonizing it.
I couldn't agree more. Extremism rarely gets you anywhere pleasant
Fantastic Take.
You might get some heat for this because the truth hurts.
The truth does hurt, which is why women are desperately trying to restrain the growth of MGTOW. For most MGTOW, it is not even ideological. It is economic.
Thank you
That's to be expected with controversial issues such as these. Somebody needs to tell these people why they're having so many problems. I got a decent amount of backlash for my last MyTake too, but I got over it.
@evenlift I don't care. Go your way.
@Idonthaveausername. Don't worry, I get shit for some of My Takes too lol
You probably do care. Many women do. That is why they are criticizing feminism, when they never did before. They are trying to create the illusion of giving concessions.
@evenlift I don't care. I have a boyfriend and I'm pretty happy. Even if we break up, I wouldn't start following a movement like a loser.
Because other people are doing something, that doesn't make it correct. That's true, if that's what you're implying. But, it's also true that something isn't incorrect, just because other people are doing it.
And, if you care about your boyfriend, you should want him not to have to fear that you or some other woman could ruin his life at any moment because of legal sexual inequality, for example.
While well written this perspective fails to take into account that many MGTOW's join the movement because they do not react normally due to the rest of society treating them a certain way. When there is little to no experience with the opposite sex, personal responsibility is often not the issue. It's the lack of normal interaction with the opposite gender that leads to their lifestyle choices and subsequent reactions or lack of "normal" reactions that leave them bitter. Meanwhile society tells them they are less than equal to their "Alpha" peers, further sexually isolating them. A mgtow man can only bear the burden of personal responsibility in sexual matters when he doesn't try but many mgtows put forth effort to find a sexual partner (in varying degrees). That effort is often rebuked by females, causing a cyclical pattern of societal isolation and denial of men's physical needs.
That's exactly what this Take is about. I wrote a section explaining that people will be interested in you if you are interesting and to stop using excuses like being ugly because I know plenty of ugly people who are happily married. Apologies if it wasn't clear, but I did address that topic. Excuses will continue to keep them from finding someone interested in the
You fail to see how women cause problems for men, regardless of circumstance. Give all the advice you want, the fact remains that hypergamy excludes the majority of men and further divides the sexes regardless of how men improve themselves. The fact remains that a large majority of Western men are not able to find compatible sexual partners while other modern parts of the world don't have that issue.
It's not an excuse when society places you into a box labeled "Loser with no future" and social perception maintains that stigma throughout a males life time.
I see all of the problems men and women give each other. For every fault you can blame a woman for, she can find another in a man. Continuing to think anything is one-sided will cause you to be alone for the rest of your life
Women aren't hypergamous
You're only a loser if you allow yourself to be one and allow others to call you one. You want to be a loser because that's the victim mentality you can use to avoid taking responsibility for your faults and actions. Society doesn't mean anything you don't want it to
Whatever.
Seeing a therapist or psychiatrist is expensive. Really expensive.
I'll just save the thousands of dollars and use it to advance my career instead of worrying about "y dnt grils like me? :((".
Nowhere did I say therapy is cheap. There are more cost-effective alternatives for people who have less income, but seeking professional help is the best way to improve and understand yourself better
Personally, I think that you can be nice, and still set boundaries. If a person wants you to do something that you do not want to do... you just say ' thanks, but no thank you.. end of'.
Agreed. There is always a better or nicer way to do something even if it's a difficult topic or situation to do so
I came for the 5 xper points tbh, neat take though.
Thank you. That picture is disturbing in so many ways. Lol
MGTOWs are all about self determination. They most often choose to do without women because or personal and often repeated experience with the bad sort of women.
Again, a repeated problem comes from a different underlying issue, one that they refuse to accept as their own fault
Losing your kids in court and having to pay the woman cash is not their own fault. You're just derailing the blame on to men when it's mostly society's fault. And women's for allowing it to continue.
Mean, heartless, cold, scornful women cause men to become damaged goods which pushes them into mgtow crowds. Many get sucked up in the bad side of mgtow, the actual women haters using mgtow as a means to demonize women. Sandman on youtube is a good example.
My mother abused the court system so that I didn't meet my father until I was in highschool. I understand screwed up laws better than most people on this site. But this MyTake isn't about government or society. This is addressed to the bitter individuals on GAG who blame the opposite gender for their own problems
Nice mytake, but you are mistaking feminists for feminazis. Normal feminists are not misandrists.
I made no mistake. I know what a feminazi is and knew using that term would only infuriate them, so I used "hardcore feminists" instead. This is already a very triggering topic for them, so I wasn't trying to incite anger
I see, ok, I'm glad you know the difference, but lots of people here are totally clueless (you can see by some of the comments) :)
What if it so happens that most of the world are bad apples? Are the majority of us really deserving of true love?
That's something I've wondered myself, but I had to self-actualize and improve myself first. Now that I'm in a position to be able to have a relationship, I've finally found someone I'm actually interested in, and now he's my boyfriend
If you are willing to give love, then you are deserving of receiving love no matter what kind of person you are
What if one self actualizes but they have improved their self to the point where they cannot find a partner that has the same value as them? Are they expected to settle with someone who is not as self-actualized?
@Wwwyzzerdd
If you were truly self-actualized, finding a partner wouldn't be a concern of yours because you would be confident and independent. You should never settle in a relationship, but you should make compromises to keep someone you love, so there will be things you have to compromise on if you do want a relationship with someone (such as I have to compromise on letting my boyfriend smoke and he has to compromise by doing it outside)
After that title, I kind of expected to just see:
Dear MGTOWS and hardcore feminists...
Shut the hell up.
Lol. That would've been one way to do it
You had some pent up frustrations didn't you? I disagree and agree on some things and that is why this world is beautiful, people don't have to agree. YOUR truth is not the ONLY truth and is not always THE truth.
Lol. I've experienced several attacks recently from these hate groups, so I've decided this sis something that needs to be addressed. You don't have to agree, but you don't have to be happy in life either
Not a bad post. Reminds me of a song by Icon For Hire... "And I know it's not your fault... it never is, is it?"
Thank you. I'm not familiar with the song, but I can see how it would relate with a title like that
later i will read it alll... but i will just give u kudos for that! 2 horrible anti-family ideologies from XXI century that must be defeated!
Thank you. I believe feminism (the original one with good intentions) unintentionally destroyed the family unit, but now the current wave of feminism is actually anti-family. MGTOW is by definition against family
oh so do u believe even the 1st wave of feminism was bad? i mean u think women should not be allowed to vote?
I think the original feminists had good intentions, but there were still bad things that happened because of it. Yes I think women should be able to vote and work, but less than 30% of the population votes in most elections and it has become nearly impossible to raise a family on a single income because pay has essentially been cut in half due to the change in cost of living to accommodate women living on their own. Women should be equal under law, but a lot of the things they fought for are either irrelevant today or have caused other serious issues I'd rather not have to deal with. Feminism should've stopped a long time ago
oh u mean 30% at USA right? not in other countries though, where voting is obligatory for all. really i don't see a problem with women having the power of voting or what serious issues could that lead to. but "women's rights to work (or the right to become a businessman's slave)" is totally irrelevant and stupid
Yeah the USA has one of the lowest, if not the lowest voter participation rates. Most people don't care enough to educate themselves on the election or candidates, let alone actually vote. I don't think female voting should be taken away, but the original efforts aren't being appreciated by today's women
I work 40+ hours a week and am financially independent, so I like having the freedom to be able to do so and make that choice. However studies show that housewives are generally happier than single or career women, so yes the freedom is a good payoff, but it has been at the price of happiness. As someone who has dealt with depression and wholly take advantage of my freedom, sometimes I wonder what is more important between happiness and freedom
I think women should keep all the rights we have, but also accept that traditional gender roles weren't always so bad. My boyfriend and I both prefer traditional gender roles and freedom, so it works for us
"As someone who has dealt with depression and wholly take advantage of my freedom, sometimes I wonder what is more important between happiness and freedom" >> truth needs to be spoken. it's much less stressful and easier for girls if they just accept to be a housewife
From what I've, seen yes women are happier when they have children and the man is the main breadwinner. I work with a few female doctors who are happy to have their careers, but they all either wish they hadn't wasted so much time in college or are only working part-time to be with their children. I think women who don't want children should be allowed to have careers, but the economic system shouldn't force women who want to be stay-at-home moms to work because a man can'tafford to feed his family on a single income
by the way do u work in a hospital are u a nurse or something?
I've worked with eye doctors, but not in a hospital. My grandmothers were both nurses
Good points. MGTOWs and Hardcore feminists make me uncomfortable
Thank you. I feel the same way. Sometimes their comments here really make me want to avoid this site
Seems legit mgtow and current feminism are two sides of the same coin
Feminists demand men's property and labour at the point of a gun.
That's the difference.
You are free to disagree with MGTOW. You are not free to disagree with feminism.
@evenlift
Well I live in the USA, so I'm free to disagree with whomever I want and I have no problem doing it
@Idonthaveausername Tell the government that you do not want to finance feminist welfare programmes, and see what happens.
@evenlift my point is mgtow think society has been taken over by misandry. While feminism feels that society has been taken over by misogyny. While there are valid cases to support both points within society. There are cases of both. Both feminism and mgtow are pointing fingers and saying how horrible the other gender is. And how their "suffering" because of the other gender. That neither can swallow their pride and figure out how to solve the problems
@evenlift
I would support defunding institutions such as Planned Parenthood because they're a waste of taxpayer dollars. See how easy that was?
I won't deny the current court system is screwed because my mother took advantage of it. Yes the court system needs reform, but sitting around griping about it won't improve your situation or make you happy in life
@Idonthaveausername What is pointless in fact is going along with it all and complaining at the same time, which is what traditionalists and men's rights activists do. That policy has been a failure for decades. In fact, the situation has got worse for men.
By going MGTOW, men are minimizing the damage that feminism can do to their lives. And only now, with the emergence of MGTOW, are women finally starting to rethink their attitudes. Put bluntly, hit them where it hurts: empty bank accounts, empty wombs, empty vaginae. But, even if nothing really changes, going (at least, to some extent) MGTOW is still clearly better than going along to get along, which, as I said, is a failed policy.
Okay. I'm very against feminism so this is understandable
lol why are we all such compassionless trolls on this site when the majority of us are probably suffering through some of these issues. thanks for the angry rant.
I didn't view that as an angry rant at all.
@SarahsSummer there was absolutely nothing positive or compassionate about what brings people to this bitter place. it just kicked the bitter even further down on their knees.
Agreed.
@Wwwyzzerdd and that's the problem with a lot of girls they're so used to having low self esteem they don't even realize when their attempts of getting out of it are pushing them further into it. You're released when you stop judging yourself for your feelings and accept them as a part of you this take literally has a pointing finger take owner is definitely miserable person who feels a compulsion to spread it around
I don't view her as a miserable person, nor am I for applauding her. Sometimes reading, watching and being sucked into the ethos of Gag causes a person to say enough is enough with your self pity and blame mentality. If you are not happy with the ways things are going, make an effort to address it. You may not always or immediately succeed but the attempt itself can often change ones views. To sit back and blame any and everything will never solve ones own problem. You can force others to change for you. But you have the power to change yourself. There are unlikely success stories all over the world, none of which came about by the individual continuing to dwell on the lemons they are served. They make sweet lemonade.
*cant force...
My intent was to help people on this site understand themselves better in order to help them overcome their own problems. This is not a bitter rant. If you read until the end, I concluded this MyTake with solutions to the main underlying problems
Positivity and compassion are things I lack in my daily life. They were not intentionally excluded from this MyTake
@SarahsSummer
Thank you for understanding my points and where I'm coming from. I'm certainly not a miserable person since I've taken steps to improve my life
What you don't seem to understand is that one of the bi problems is that there is a huge imbalance of justice when it comes to the law. Fathers do not have equal rights and usually come off worse after a divorce, as the divorce laws tend to favor women. It's the same when it comes to domestic violence. If the law was more balanced and fair, then relationships between men and women would be better, in my opinion. But if the law tends to favor one gender over the other, then it will undoubtedly cause conflict between the sexes and lead to anger and bitterness.
I agree with you. Especially because I have seen men who lost a lot in a divorce (sometimes not even a divorce just letting a girlfriend move in for a few years). I also believe that this is why a lot of men ar eput off by marriage or at least cautious and choosy about getting married. If divorce wasn't really punishing to guys more guys might be more willing to get married. There was also a case a few years ago where a man had a good paying job and ended up living in poverty because his whole pay cheque was going to alimoney, and child support and the rest went straight to taxes. He ended up committing suicide.
Also for those wondering no I'm not mgtow, not mra. I'm egalitarian.
My mother abused the court system in a way so that I didn't meet my father until I was in highschool. Don't accuse me of misunderstanding the law. This MyTake was not to address our screwed up laws, it was to address bitterness on GAG and how that prevents people from finding relationships a d being happy
Well until women help men get equal parental rights and in divorces, I'm afraid the anger and bitterness is going to continue.
Well I have no influence over the legal system. This was addressed to GAG users, so if it influences GAG users, I'm happy
I don't think it will. The government and women have destroyed relationships.
It has been received well by several people
Yes, by people who already agree with you.
TL;DR
"Whining about men rant because their behavior does not align with my idea of the world order, then I will throw around some phrases such as MGTOW that I do not understand at all and gotta slip in some "hardcore" feminists (as opposed to all feminists) so it doesn't look like I'm just complaining about men. (but really, that is what I'm doing)"
Cool.
I'm not wining. If you read the entire post you'll see that I clearly defined problems, offered solutions, and encouraged change. I spread the topics equally between genders