Dear MGTOWs and Hardcore Feminists...

[Idonthaveausername]

If you are single, it is your fault, not the entire opposite gender's. You fail at relationships because of yourself and you can't find "the one" because you're not "the one" back. If you want to be happy and successful in life, you need to take responsibility for your actions and be a person worth a relationship first

Nobody took advantage of you

If you're a guy who spent $100 taking a girl out on a first date and she didn't want to take things anything further, you were not taken advantage of; if you're a girl who stayed in an abusive relationship, you were not taken advantage of. Everything you do in dating, marriage, and relationships should be because you care about you, your partner, and your relationship (and kids if you have any). If you didn't want to spend $100 on someone who wasn't interested in you, then you should've taken her to the free city museum; if you stayed in an abusive relationship, that was your fault because you should've left the first time he laid a hand on you

People only take advantage of other people who allow themselves to be taken advantage of, so you should've better protected yourself better in the first place if you feared a certain outcome. If you allow someone to take advantage of you, they will, but if you are clear with boundaries and don't allow bad behavior, nobody will be able to use you. If you feel underappreciated in a relationship, then you need to discuss things with your partner before things get out of hand. At a certain point, this disparage comes down to incompatibility, and the best thing is to end the relationship rather than continue with something that will only get worse

Not all women are gold-diggers/not all men are misogynists

Quit it with the absolutes. Yes there are more than a few bad apples out there, but that doesn't mean all men are pigs, cheaters, or assholes, and that doesn't mean all women are liars, manipulative, or whores. If you dated someone for a month, a year, a decade...and he/she was the worst person you ever met, then that means you had a bought of bad luck in ending up with a bad apple, but that does not mean every other dating prospect out there is exactly the same and it does not mean that you're going to have the same experience with another partner

Absolutes are deadly in relationships, both when it comes to initiating one and when it comes to maintaining one. Not only is having an absolute mentality bad for you, but it is also bad for your partner. Top relationship psychologists will tell you the best way to tell if a couple will break up is to see if a couple uses absolutes while arguing or not--couples who use absolutes like "You never put the dishes in the dishwasher" or "You're always nagging at me" are bound for serious problems in a relationship while those who don't tend to stay together much longer. It's no stretch to assume anyone who blames all men or all women because of a bad experience are more likely to use absolutes while arguing, and therefor less likely to be able to maintain a healthy long-term relationship. An absolutist mentality is toxic for both you and your partner, so give it up if you want to be happy

Not to leave out that telling your date all men are cheaters or all women are whores will be a major turn-off and probably prevent you from getting a second date

"Life experience: It's what you get when you didn't get what you wanted"

I stole this from a sticker I saw taped on the wall at a Jimmy John's. I love this because it's true. When you don't get hired at an interview, then you have more experience for interviewing, and it will hopefully make you more prepared to answer questions and less nervous the next time. When you go on a first date and don't get a text or call back, then you have more experience for going out on a first date, and hopefully you'll be more prepared for small talk and less nervous the next time. Most people have unpleasant dating experience and experiences that don't work out because most people don't find their soul-mate on the first try. When you break up with someone, that entire relationship was a lesson to you to make sure you don't repeat the same mistakes again. Go out on 100 dates if that's what it takes to find someone who gives you that "spark" and break up with that loser who plays Xbox all day so you can put your effort into finding someone better

Bitterness is a huge problem I've seen on this website from both guys and girls, but moreso from guys. It seems that a lot of people are bitter from their past experiences. Let me tell you that it is perfectly acceptable to be bitter that someone stole your girlfriend, your car, your dog, and your favorite lampshade, but you can't find happiness in life if you dwell on it forever. Maybe you need to eat a whole bag of potato chips and a tub of ice cream or blow your next paycheck at a strip club, but whatever you do after a bad breakup, you need to drop it when you're done. Anger and bitterness will make your life more difficult and give you more depression, but it will do nothing to hurt the person you're angry about or improve your situation. Expressing your bitterness on the internet is not the correct answer and it will not make you feel better. So learn from your mistakes and bad relationships so you can move on rather than dwelling on the past forever

Take responsibility instead of making excuses

For all of you out there who complain that no guy or girl is interested in you because you're ugly, you're wrong. I know plenty of ugly people who are happily married, so stop using that as an excuse. The reason why nobody is interested in you is because you are not relationship material or you're not putting yourself out there. If nobody is interested in you, then you need to make yourself interesting--go learn how to skydive or perfect the art of underwater basket weaving--seriously, people are interested in interesting people, so you have to be interesting if you want someone to be interested in you. Wearing nice clothing, improving your personal hygiene, and generally putting effort into your physical appearance is the number one, quickest, and easiest way to increase your attractiveness towards whoever it is you're trying to attract (losing weight is the best way for overweight people to improve their physical appearance, but yes I understand that is neither quick nor easy). Unapproachable body language is another reason a lot of people won't approach you, so putting effort into looking happy, approachable, single, and interested in meeting someone new will exponentially increase your chances of being approached

Confidence is the most attractive trait when it comes to initiating contact with someone you're interested in. Accepting your flaws, taking control of your life, and quitting making excuses for your problems will make you attractive to people no matter how ugly, poor, short, or strange you are. My boyfriend was slightly disfigured in an explosion, but he is accepting of his physical appearance and confident enough to think a girl like me could be interested in him despite that, so I was. Victim mentalities are extremely unattractive while people who accept their flaws and work to improve what they can in life are extremely attractive

Sitting on your computer and stalking someone's facebook page for 10 years while they go running around with any number of other people will never get you a date with them no matter how hard you cry. If you are single and have never asked anybody out, then you need to ask somebody out. Going straight from school/work to your house everyday and refusing to socialize with friends or go to parties will socially isolate you and prevent you from meeting new people. If you are single, but you don't engage in social interactions or know how to talk to someone in real life, then you are going to remain single because you will never meet anybody or be able to talk to them if they somehow find you in life. If you are unhappy with your life, then do something to improve it and change will come

Misogyny and Misandry are both wrong

This should go without saying, but I'm sure there will be plenty of this in the comments anyway. Misogyny and misandry are both wrong and will both prevent you from finding and maintaining a happy, healthy relationship. When two people enter into a relationship, they need to put the same amount of effort in as they will receive or the imbalance created will be problematic. Putting too much or too little effort into a relationship because you view your partner as superior or inferior to you is a serious problem. Furthermore, your negative views are bound to negatively affect your partner (and that is something you should care about if you want a relationship) in the things you say and they way you act.

"Equal" and "fair" are not terms you should be using in a relationship. If you have diluted your relationship to equality and fairness, then you're too selfish. If you love someone (and yeah, if you're only dating, but are interested in finding someone to love) then you need to do things for your partner without expecting anything in return. Doing so will cause your partner to see your love and appreciate your affections, but if they don't return the favor or show their appreciation, then you can either have a talk with them about it or dump them. One of the biggest thing on this site I see is when guys claim it's only fair for them to pay for a date if women put out at the end of it--well you are not interested in a relationship for the right reasons, are better off paying for that escort you seem to admire so much, and a girl sleeping with a guy who bought her dinner is not prostitution. If you don't think a girl is worth $20 for a burger and a coke, then you obviously don't value her enough to take her out on a date; if the only thing you want from women is sex, then you only deserve STD-ridden prostitutes. Being in a relationship isn't only for sex or for financial security or for showing off a trophy to your friends and family. If you want to be in a relationship, you have to put your partner's needs above your own sometimes or they'll never put their needs above yours

If you think someone is inferior to you, then you should not be dating that person because you will mistreat them. If you thing someone is inferior to you, then you should not be dating that person because you will be mistreated by them

Sometimes it is your fault

One of the most difficult lessons to learn in life is how to accept your faults. Nobody wants to get in trouble; nobody wants to be yelled at; nobody wants you to go through a nasty breakup. Humans make mistakes and you are no exception, so you will make mistakes in relationships. When you make a mistake, you need accept your fault, apologize for it, and try your best to improve the situation or never let it happen again. Some people make mistakes that are not worth forgiving, so if you make a mistake that ends a relationship, you have to make sure you never do that to anybody else. Flirting with other guys may be forgivable, but hiding it from your boyfriend will make things worse because now you're lying--stop lying and ultimately stop flirting with other guys. Cheating on your wife and getting another woman pregnant may be unforgivable, so don't blame her when she divorces you

Something I've seen quite a bit are people who experience the same problem in multiple relationships, so this does become your fault at a certain point. Abuse and cheating are not your fault the first time, but it is your fault if you continue to let it happen or if it happens in several of your relationships--either you pick the wrong type of person or you instigate it. If you experience the same problems over and over again, then you should see a therapist to help you work out what you're doing wrong and how to prevent it from happening again. Selfishness and insecurity are the two biggest culprits of causing the same problems to happen multiple times to you

You can fix your mentality

The good news is that you can fix your toxic mentality if you do want happiness in life and a healthy, fulfilling relationship. Obviously it would be best and easiest if you change on your own, but there are other ways if that's too difficult for you. Seeing a therapist or psychiatrist is a great way of helping you understand your problems in life, learning how to fix them, and also helping you to get over any bad experiences you have had. Reading self-help books might be your thing. Also going out into the world and listening to the experiences of others can help give you a new or better perspective on life, especially if you talk to someone who has had similar experiences and problems in life as you

There is someone out there who could be perfect for you, and it's never too late for you to find that person. So if you want to be happy and find a good relationship, then you have to pick yourself back up, leave all of your baggage behind, improve yourself, and get yourself back out there

[TheSniper]

Ah... good job on your second take. I changed my account due to some "incessant badgering" of bigots and over-sensitive people.
I believe it should be 100/100. Giving all and expecting none. I guess that has changed my previous opinion of 50/50 or equality.

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you. This MyTake is itself a response to "incessant badgering." Lol

There you go. That's a great improvement

I finally went on a date (he paid without even questioning it) and now he's my boyfriend. We've been going out for a month now and we're very happy together. Waiting for the right guy was well worth it

[TheSniper]

Dating is not our custom here. Our custom is arranged marriages. We can love but dating is... Not practiced. Lol.
I'm happy that you have found the perfect guy. He pays for all the dates?

[Idonthaveausername]

I understand that's a tradition still practiced in a lot of parts of the world. Sometimes I think that would be easier than having your own choice because you don't have to worry about choosing

He pays for all the dates and would feel insulted if I even tried to. He bought me cold medicine when I had the flu and wouldn't let me pay him back either

[TheSniper]

I see. I wish you good luck in everything.

[TheSniper]

Thank you for MHO.

[SarahsSummer]

This is what I'm talking about! Great mytake. ☮️💟😊
media4.giphy.com/media/KbStjR9DiVvOM/giphy.gif

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you and that is much appreciated

[SarahsSummer]

Thank you for the MHO💟

[OlderAndWiser]

I generally agreed with what you wrote. I think that this would have been better if it had been broken up into a few separate postings, as it is quite lengthy.

You said that a good relationship is one where the partners make equal efforts. I agree but. . . when a relationship is truly 50/50, it will always feel like you are making more effort because you are aware of every little thing that you do to make it work but you are also not aware of every little thing that your partner is doing to make it work. (E. g., effort is keeping your mouth shut when you partner says something that is irritating but not terribly important. Your partner does not realize or appreciate the effort that you expend in not replying to their stupid comment.)

"Then you have to pick yourself back up, leave all of your baggage behind." You can't leave your baggage behind you because some of it becomes a part of who you are. . . just like you never forget a significant ex. What you can do is become aware of your baggage and learn how to handle it so that it doesn't screw up the next relationship. Sometimes, that means discussing those matters with your partner, letting them know that you are very sensitive on certain topics and asking for their patience with you.

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you. I agree it's lengthy, but I don't have WiFi for my laptop at home, so I had one chance to throw it all out there. It couldn't be helped

I believe a relationship should be 100/100. Each person should put all of their efforts into their relationship without feeling unappreciated if something happens to where the other person slacks a little. Not putting all of your efforts into a relationship will cause problems. I couldn't agree more that sometimes keeping your mouth shut is putting in effort (I have to not tell my boyfriend how much I disapprove of his smoking, but he has to respect me enough to smoke outside my apartment)

Some of the things I've been through in life are permanently going to affect me, so I know some baggage can't be left behind. These things cause complications with my boyfriend, but my openness and honestly in discussing it with him makes things doable. You have to pick what baggage you need to carry with you and what you can afford to leave behind

[evenlift]

Reality is reality. People have the right to reject whomever, but that doesn't make it right necessarily. Think of racism, for example. What does this have to do with MGTOW or feminism anyway? Many feminists are not single, and few MGTOW are MGTOW because they can't get relationships.

Feminism is not merely an (evil) exercise in freedom. It is the initiation of force, i. e. violence, for example taxation. That is a major difference with MGTOW.

As one Internet MGHOW said, you can't alpha the system. As long as feminism is part of government, merely ignoring it is not a solution. Again, racism is an apt comparison. One can ignore non-violent racism. One cannot ignore racism in the form of Apartheid or Jim Crow.

More and more women are suddenly talking in the way that you are. "Feminism is awesome" has become "MGTOW are just as bad as feminists" (which isn't really any kind of concession). Why? Clearly, the MGTOW phenomenon is rattling you, which it should. Though very few men identify as MGTOW or have even consciously thought of the concept, many men now are in practice MGTOW. The not-especially-unattractive (or perhaps even quite attractive), straight, young man who seems to have little or no sexual/romantic interest in women is becoming much more common. Until a few years ago, MGTOW were almost exclusively bitter, middle-aged divorcees. Even I, as a man who has not totally sworn off women, am very picky about the personalities of the women with whom I associate, and I have totally sworn off marriage. To those women complaining that men care too much about looks and not enough about personality, I say, be careful what you wish for!

[Idonthaveausername]

I agree that the political and social institutions don't necessarily have anything to do with relationships, but I'm speaking to the users of this website who use it as an excuse to blame the opposite gender and wallow in self-pity and put other people down. This is for the MGTOWS who think all women are hypergamous, cheating whores and the hardcore feminists who make false rape claims against guys who they were trying to sleep with in the first place. I'm​sending a message to the extremists, not rational human beings

There's nothing wrong with rejecting someone if you're genuinely not interested in them. What's wrong is letting your poor experiences make you a bitter person and then taking that out on people on the internet you don't even know. That's a huge problem I've seen on GAG

[evenlift]

@Idonthaveausername

I thoroughly oppose feminism, but even I wouldn't say that feminists blame all men. It seems that you have done what is quite rare, given feminism unfair criticism, all in order to try to torpedo MGTOW.

As I say, there is this mass female panic in the West about MGTOW right now. It is justified, but you are not going to solve the problem through shaming MGTOW. As I said to another commenter, for many men going MGTOW isn't even ideological. It's economic. If I don't buy a yacht, it's not because I hate yachts (though no doubt some people do hate yachts).

The problem for you women is that going (at least to some extent) MGTOW is quite clearly rational in today's society, if shunning marriage and being very careful about female associations count as going MGTOW to some extent. Back when abortion was illegal and contraceptive pills did not exist, almost all women shunned pre-marital, or at least pre-engagement, sex. I wouldn't call them misandrists or bitter.

[COCOCHANEL]

if i were a man i'd probably go mgtow. i really understand this because of the countless hours my dad and i talked when i was a kid. i don't completely understand of course but i do sympathize.

[Idonthaveausername]

While I agree some MGTOWs and feminists aren't bitter, the majority on this site are and this was addressed to those specific people

[PatriarchalOppressor]

To compare MGTOW to feminism is to compare apples to oranges. The flip side of the coin of feminists are MRAs. MGTOW do not organize. We don't hold gatherings. We don't form politically. We don't dodge taxes by creating non-profits.

MGTOW exist for some very simple reasons and those reasons, less and less have to do with feminism per say, but instead deeply embedded cultural misandry and blatantly obvious male disposability - the bedrock of gynocentrism and its hyper-extension, feminism.

Men have built all the civilizations on earth. Your roads, neighborhoods, schools, higher learning centers, sewers, monuments, parks and governments were all built almost exclusively by men. It was men that were trafficked, exploited, manipulated and disposed of in war for women's and the state's advancement, not women. All of women's rights and privileges were gained through the sacrifice of male lives. Why? Because women have the babies and their lives are held in higher regard than men's; hence chivalry. It's as plain as the upturned, pompous nose on your face.

When women are in danger, who do they demand come and save them? He-For-She, anyone? Why aren't their quotas for women in the most dirty, most life threatening, most life shorting jobs 'traditionally' held by men - instead of the most lucrative, most powerful and most prestigious positions?

It's all gynocentrism - and feminists and MRAs are gynocentrists. I agree with others here that MRAs want to return men to the 1950s in which men 'provided for and protected women'. MGTOW don't want that. MGTOW simply want to be free of gynocentrism, cultural misandry and male disposability; hence our refusal to marry and in some cases even date or have sex with women. Unchecked gynocentrism has become the precursor to learned asexuality.

You couldn't be more wrong in your characterization of MGTOW - but I think you know that. MGTOW simply see what feminists, MRAs and gynocentrists in general cannot - the actual truth. The only other people outside of MGTOW that see this truth are those that recognize MGTOWs danger to the hegemonic nature of gynocentrism - those that hope to hide the damage to men gynocentrism has wrought - which I suspect is the impetus of your socially manipulative narrative and shaming attempt on MGTOW.

The crime is socially accepted disposal of males on women's and the state's behalf and the cover up is feminism. Society's refusal to care about men and boy's will be society's undoing - not MGTOW.

[hellionthesagereborn]

MRA's are not gynocentrist nor do they want to return men tothe 1950s. They are far more egalitarian, they do not want men to be exploited any more then MGTOWs do, they just think the laws need to change. Traditionalist want a return to traditionalist values your so called "1950s" though to be honest their is actually ample data showing both men and women are happier in their traditional roles, so long as they are not as extreme as current society has made them.

[Idonthaveausername]

This isn't about politics or society. This is an address to MGTOW and hardcore feminist individuals on GAG who blame the opposite gender for their problems in life and dating. I understand the MGTOW mentality very well and pity their self-misery

[PatriarchalOppressor]

And you got my return address. Next time, if you don't want a negative reply, don't make grandiose declarations as if you run the show - because you don't - thank the heavens above. You've no power to dictate to others, most especially me. Pity is the act of standing above someone and looking down upon them as if you're better than they are - so do you realize what that makes you? I certainly don't pity you. I just recognize you as someone with which I'd never want to deal on a personal level. You're somewhat a dictatorial butt wipe and exactly the type I avoid like the plague. I don't blame women for my 'problems'. I'm 6' 2", decent looking, have 1.2M in the bank, live in a great neighborhood, will retire early, am well educated and can get laid pretty much whenever I want. I'm just not stupid enough to give a woman legal and/or financial power over my life. See. No problems. I'm just very wise and worldly. I'm not very pitiable.

[Idonthaveausername]

I respond to most people who answer opinions on my posts and I was expecting a good portion of negative replies because I addressed this to a very sensitive group of people who tend to take offense easily

The whole point of this site is to "dictate" our opinions. You reserve the right to not interact with or read my opinion, but you chose to do so anyway

Your view on women is misogynistic, that's a point I addressed in MyTake

[hellionthesagereborn]

You don't understand what MGTOW is. They are not men who hate women they are men who realizing that our current system, both the social and legal, are in a disproportionate favor of women and extremely dangerous for men, they have opted out of traditional roles i. e. marriage. Some even going so far as to not date. The fact is blaming them for this is rather absurd as they are not saying all women are bad, what they are saying is that our society encourages women to behave badly. Women are hypergamous by nature, that is they are drawn to men of higher status and income (makes perfect sense from a biological standpoint because pregnancy and child rearing require an incredible amount of resources while also limiting the womans ability to acquire them), men in turn tend to be opportunisticly promiscuous (that is they are willing to have sex with multiple women as long as its not detrimental to them which is also biological as it would increase their chance to reproduce and casual sex is least costly for a man, quite literally what ever energy is expended during the sexual act itself). Society and law have always been designed to try and repress/control the baser and least desirable aspects of who we are, hypergamy in women and promiscuity in men for instance while encouraging the good, men being selfless (they work and work and provide the fruits of their labor to their families) and women being nurturing. However that is not what is happening now. Right now women are encouraged to be promiscuous they are encouraged to treat men like utilities. Look at the statistics, women initiate divorce almost 80% of the time, yet over 50% stated they regretted doing so (thus we know that the relationship wasn't abusive or due to cheating as is commonly argued). Then look at the other statistics, 80% of all alimony/childsupport is paid by the father. Women get equal custody or better over 90% of the time men only 40% of the time. Statistically equal custody occurs 35% of the time. Women do not loose out during divorce, they gain. That's why male suicide rates double after divorce and a womans does not. If a woman wants to she can claim a man is the father of her child and in many places its actually illegal for the man to demand a DNA test. Thanks to court rulings like Hermsmann vs seyer a man is obligated to pay child support no matter the circumcstances of the pregnancy. The court ruling in this case was that the 12 year old boy was obligated to pay child support to his

[hellionthesagereborn]

rapist (his babysitter at the time) for the next 18 years. The court ruling was upheld in every state thus far, in Arizona with a 14 year old boy who was groomed and then raped by his 24 year old neighbor, New York where a woman took her boyfriends used condom out of the trash and impregnated herself with it and florida where a man had his sperm stolen from the sperm bank by his ex girlfriend. In divorce the man always looses, a millionaire had his wife cheat on him multiple times, when she decided to divorce him she got the preunuptial agreement thrown out thus gaining half his money despite the fact that she cheated on him and broke their marital contract. Nothing happened to her, she only benefited from being a horrible human being. Another man has his wife cheat on him, she passed off the resulting child as his for 10 years (while still cheating on him) then divorced him took his money his home and then informed him that the child was some one elses.

[hellionthesagereborn]

He know pays child support to the woman, the child that isn't his, and the girls father. He lost his family and his money and home that he worked hard for and is now forced to pay child support to an intact family and to a woman who destroyed him. She has suffered no consequence for her actions he suffers continuously because his only options where that he acknowledge the child as his (despite the courts knowing the child was not) and pay child support or to never see the girl he raised as his own for ten years again. Again, the woman who did this to him gets a paycheck for it, she gets to have a life and he doesn't. This is not uncommon. Its not that MGTOW is saying all women are like that, what it is saying is that it doesn't matter because the legal system is against them, that all it takes is for a man to trust the wrong woman and his life is over, that the law is in favor of women and society is as well.

[hellionthesagereborn]

If laws where changed to protect the innocent rather then to protect women, even from the consequences of their own actions, then you would see fewer MGTOW. If society started condemning women destroying mens lives, actually acknowledging that not only that this is happening but that its an increasing problem then we wouldn't have MGTOW at all. The world is hostile to men, women in general are trained to hate men and so these men have opted to simply walk away from the system that harms them. Its not all women, but what society asks is that men allow a woman to hold a gun to his head with a hair trigger and just pray to god that she doesn't get angry, that she doesn't make a mistake, for the rest of his life. Thats asking for quite a lot. Womens counter argument is that you just have some one you trust but every man who had his life destroyed trusted the woman who did it to him, so thats not really an option now. You want this to go away, acknowledge the problem try to fix it.

[Idonthaveausername]

There you go with the absolutes and calling women hypergamous. Knock it off. You're no better than the whores, cheaters, gold-diggers, and manipulators you're describing. Not all women are like that, so you're not protecting yourself from anything

[hellionthesagereborn]

Women are by nature hyprgamous. Why would you claim otherwise? I also said men where more promiscuous by nature, you didn't seem to have an issue with that. I never said all women where this way either, I said women are biologically inclined towards it as they are and that society helps keep the worse of ourselves in check. I did not exclude men from my list yet you completely ignored that didn't you. Why do you think that is? You also didn't address anything else I said, like how the issue isn't women its society and law siding with the women who do wrong. At no point did I say all women yet you felt the need to ignore everything I said by claiming that since not all women are like that everything I said is meaningless and are thus untrue (as you never addressed my points). So congratulations, your part of the problem because you refuse to call out these women, refuse to call out the system that causes this. Not all women are like that, but you by your words are.

[Idonthaveausername]

Calm down or leave. Women aren't hypergamous by nature and men aren't promiscuous by nature. I know plenty of both who aren't what you're claiming

Our laws are screwed up, but that's not the problem I'm addressing right now. If people were decent, they'd be able to navigate this screwed up system without too many complications. If you want to argue about laws, go write your own MyTake and stop deflecting blame on mine

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes men and women are and you completely ignored the other half of my argument. Also I am calm, do I not seem to be? The fact is your response was anticipated because women in general do not acknowledge these problems and they sure as hell refuse to acknowledge a problem that is primarily perpetrated by women. We have no problem calling men out but its taboo to call out women. So again, I am calm as you response is exactly as I expected (technically slightly better then expected because I expected you to block me immediately or delete the post or what have you.) Yes men are promiscuous and women are hypergamous. NO that doesn't mean every single person acts on it, no it does not mean every single person is untrustworthy and is doomed to the behavior. Just as when I get angry I don't just go and punch some one in the mouth even though that might be my first impulse people do not just cheat or abandon their spouse on impulse. At no point did I suggest this and in fact argued against this

[hellionthesagereborn]

That was my point when I said societies role is to highlight and encourage the good and discourage and punish the bad in order for us to be truly good and functional people. If we cannot acknowledge the differences in men and women and the bad that is in both men and women and the good that's in both men and women then the problems cannot be solved. Here is my data to back up my statement: www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...-affairs-evolution.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy
I reiterate, this is not an absolute, this is not what happens and we all have to deal with it, it is a base impulse just like many of our other base impulses. Just because I see an attractive woman doesn't mean I immediately run over and try to hump her leg, same with women, just because they have a hypergamous tendency doesn't mean they immediately run off and try to get with the most powerful or well off man they can find.

[hellionthesagereborn]

We are comprised of many different, some times contradictory systems. If you want you can think of it as id vs ego or primate brain vs. reptilian brain. We have old instincts like hypergamy and promiscuity that are hold overs from the reptilian brain but our primate brain, which is newer is more inclined to stable long term relationships as they are far more beneficial in the long run. So no, again, I am not saying this is the end all be all or that this is an absolute, it is however a thing that does exist that we have ample evidence of in our society. Now originally society frowned upon this behavior and punished those who did wrong, just like a parent punishes a child, its meant to discourage bad destructive behavior and encourage good productive behavior. My statement was focused on the fact that thanks to feminism and our tendency to favor women (makes sense from a biological perspective as women dictate birth rates) has created a system that no longer punishes women for bad

[hellionthesagereborn]

behavior but simultaneously does so for men and in fact continues to encourage and demand that they hold there end of social contract while giving women a free pass. No this does not mean all women or even the majority of women are this way, what it means is that if a woman comes along who is unscrupulous she can destroy a man with out consequence, that their is no insurance policy, no way for a man to prevent a woman from destroying her life is she so chose. Then the fact that so very few women actually call out the behavior of these women, so few are willing to acknowledge that this is even an issue that's why you have MGTOW, its not that all women are bad or evil its that enough women have taken advantage of the system, that the system is rigged against them AND that so few women have spoken out against this that it is deemed safer to simply opt out of the system then deal with it.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Also to clarify I am not MGTOW, I do not think that ignoring the problem is going to make it go away and I do not think ignoring it will make any one happier or society healthier I am simply pointing out that this is what they believe and what they feel and what in fact is happening and this is the path they have chosen to deal with these issues. I personally think the goal should be making it common knowledge that these things are happening and pushing for laws to change and punishing and condemning women who exploite these unfair laws to hurt men (just as we would condemn a man who hurt women) and to choose women of value and worth. Just as I am saying what you stated is wrong about MGTOW I will and have said to red pillars/PUA (pick up artists community) about women. That they are painting all women a certain way and claiming its something inherent when it is not. Just as I point out their biases I am pointing out yours.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Well spoken Hellion. I feel like this post was ignoring the larger issue and your massive post covered pretty much everything that the author side skirted or failed to address. While I agree with both of you, the facts cannot be ignored. I don't see your posts being offensive or unreasonable or offensive, you clearly state that society has created a system and that system is not all inclusive.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

How does one navigate a discriminatory system designed to make men fail?

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Wwwyzzerdd Thank you, I don't know why its so common that women in general seem to assume that criticism of one is criticism of all, it isn't. As for navigating the system, that's a good question. Personally as I was alluding to if she understands the issues and calls out the behavior whenever she sees it, I consider that a start, that is if you find a woman and are interested in her and she calls out this behavior that, to me, is a point in her favor. The fact is your either going to be alone or your going to have to take a risk. Personally I think by avoiding the issue your punishing the women who are good along with the bad and I think that's detrimental, especially if you do the whole PUA thing because you could be using those women who are good people and thus turning them into bitter women who will become the very thing you seek to avoid. So the only way to navigate is to be cautious, to only go with a woman you trust, would say casual sex is off the table for obvious reasons.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Wwwyzzerdd Both in negative legal consequences and if your having sex very early on in a relationship then your not getting to know the woman first and you might be choosing poorly, and in the negative consequences of it (the more partners a woman has the more likely she is to cheat divorce etc which in turn exacerbates the problem. Otherwise your either adding to the problem or pretending like everything is fine while the house burns down around you. Really the thing is find some one who is trust worthy and just teach the next generation, I think the major problem is that we have had a society telling us to act impulsively to act in self serving ways and to act indulgent which has pretty much removed the notion of personal responsibility duty and selflessness in our society thus resulting in so many women (and men) being so self serving at the cost of everything else.

[Idonthaveausername]

There are points you make that I agree with and points I don't and I don't have time to address them all. Stop saying women are inherently hypergamous and men are promiscuous. It's not true and I've told everyone to stop using it

There are an infinant number of problems with society and government, but this MyTake wasn't "skirting" them. This is not about society. This is a response to the recent increase in attacks I've seen on GAG lately. And one of my main points was to stop using excuses, and blaming society is a huge cop-out that I'm not impressed with by a good portion of responses here. If you're not happy with the subjects I've discussed, you're free to write your own MyTake

[hellionthesagereborn]

Seriously? You cannot acknowledge this one thing? The thing we have ample evidence of, ample data on, we even have anecdotal evidence to back the statistics and surveys done that show these claims? If you cannot acknowledge it then how do you deal with it? That's like a person pretending like they never get angry. That doesn't solve the problem it makes it worse. We have bad traits, we have good traits. If we do not acknowledge the bad traits and the problems they cause then we are condoning the behavior. I don't know why you think that me saying this is an attack on all women, or think that I am saying all women will abandon their boyfriends or husbands for another man or all men will cheat or what ever bullshit you seem to think this means. That is not what I am saying, what I am saying is that we are animals, we have drives and impulses and we need to acknowledge them in order to not lose ourselves in base impulses. Why do you think this is an attack on all women?

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes you said we are not allowed to blame society, great. Now what? I was pointing out that your definition of MGTOW was not accurate. I'm not even MGTOW and I could tell it was not accurate, you misrepresented them as hating women when in fact they are against the legal system that has destroyed many mens lives. So you telling them to essentially shut up sit down and just get use to being fucked by said system is not really helping the problem. Its one thing if you where telling men who sleep around and go after sluts to stop bitching about sluts, that I would agree with. If you had told feminist to stop making up bullshit to constantly be a victim then I would also agree (have made that argument myself). But you didn't, you stated that they have no reason to complain even as you acknowledged that the laws are completely biased (society is biased). That's a real issue and you have told them not to talk about it and just, man up essentially.

[hellionthesagereborn]

You accused them of blaming all women which of course they haven't done, they blame the system that abuses them and the people who defend it or at least try to silence any one who tries to point out the extreme bias in laws and society. Those are real issues that need to be discussed. Now I understand that your probably going to block me or delete my post or what have you because you don't like what I said but the fact is you made an inaccurate statement and I am pointing out why that is inaccurate. I will not keep quite when some one misrepresents an issue, especially one that is so damaging to people and society as these. If you did not want a discussion, if you did not want people to share their opinion then you shouldn't have shared your opinion to begin with. This is the real world and people are going to disagree, and if you can speak your mind then so can they. Anything else is the censorship and restriction of the freedom of speech and it hurts you as much as it hurts others.

[Idonthaveausername]

You can't blame society as an individual if you want to be happy and live a fulfilling life. Someone who marries a good spouse and treats her right doesn't have to worry about the screwed up laws. The number one reason women divorce men is because of dissatisfaction, so obviously men aren't pulling their weight in the relationship either

This was addressed to MGTOWs on this site, not any other ones because I haven't interacted with any other ones. The ones on this site do hate women, do blame women for the problems in their lives, and are misogynistic

I don't know why you're trying to passively-aggressively get me to block you. I've never blocked anyone online and I don't need to block you. I was expecting plenty of controversial opinions when I posted this, so I don't know why you think I wasn't

[hellionthesagereborn]

"if you want to be happy and live a fulfilling life. Someone who marries a good spouse and treats her right doesn't have to worry about the screwed up laws. The number one reason women divorce men is because of dissatisfaction, so obviously men aren't pulling their weight in the relationship either" How many men knew they would be divorced and have their children taken from them exactly? I'm guessing none. As for not carrying there own weight that's laughable. First and for most technically men do more work then women www.usatoday.com/.../
and they end up giving the majority of their earnings to their spouse as women account for 80% of all domestic spending (70% globally) which of course women are not earning all of that money, its being given to them as much as (or more) it is them earning it. Further more all you need to do is look at women and how they treat men, who is being ignored and dissatisfied and mistreated? Oh yeah.

[hellionthesagereborn]

You don't hear any one talking about what a woman can do to please her husband, to make him happy (in fact you get informed that she doesn't exist to please a man if you mention it) but you damn well better believe that women (and people in general) will not shut the fuck up about all the things men need to do to make a HER happy. It is true that women are the ones divorcing men but do you think that that many men are fuck ups? That they are neglectful? Who is blaming who now? According to studies and surveys over 50% of those who initiated divorce (almost always women (the only reason you see men divorce in general is if she cheated (which is over 50% of male initiated divorces)) regret it, over 40% within the week. So clearly its not that they are doing something wrong, what is happening is women are told they should be allowed to do what they want when they want with out consequence, they are rewarded when divorcing, encouraged to even.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Its women that are the problem, its society that has allowed women to destroy their families and the lives of men that is the problem. See a man will be forced to stay with a woman because he knows that if he leaves not only is he going to be the "bad guy" but he will always end up losign every thing he worked for, and worse he will lose his children. In fact this ensures that even though men are actually more likely to experience domestic violence then women (according to the CDC/NCVS) and more likely to experience emotional abuse at the hands of their spouse they will still tough it out because they will lose everything and society will not acknowledge them or their plight, there is no wear to go for them. Meanwhile as stated women are rewarded for being terrible people and thus have no insentive (other then if your lucky good upbringing) to be a decent person. Here is one woman talking about the difference of MGTOW and what you have described them as:

[hellionthesagereborn]

https://youtu.be/faeT4fIFAcg

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for my "passive aggressive" response about you blocking me, I wasn't trying to get you to block me. The fact is many people decide to block people they disagree with and with you telling me to stop and essentially not addressing any of my points suggested quite heavily that you would block me. So I called you out because by doing so you would be less inclined to block me otherwise you would prove me right which I find those who do block people have to much of an ego to want to prove some one else right. They can't stand it when some one calls them out. So I was actually just exploiting a psychological loop hole.

[Idonthaveausername]

No it's not just women who have the problem. If men didn't have a problem, they wouldn't be so bitter or trying to convince the world all women are evil. If you didn't have a problem, you wouldn't be trying to convince me that I'm somehow an evil, hypergamous, gold-digging snake who's going to divorce someone and take all of his money and children. Well you're absolutely wrong because I have zero intention of doing that. My mother took advantage of the court system and that was a pretty terrible way to raise children, so I would never do that to my own. No matter how much you try to convince me that I'm what you seem to think all women are, you won't be able to because you're wrong, bitter, and wasting your time

I understand perfectly fine what MGTOW is

Men are equally to blame for their failed marriages. Divorce is never one-sided. There is equal blame between the husband and wife in a divorce

[hellionthesagereborn]

So what is with the vast majority of women immediately assuming that when a criticism is leveled at women in general that it pertains to them specifically? Seriously, are you a hive mind? Are you a monolith? Never said any of those things, so I don't know why you would suggest I did. I stated women are as a whole prone to hypergamy because they are and we have good evidence for that, I didn't say every single woman acts on it, I didn't say every woman was a "gold-digging snake who's going to divorce someone and take all of his money and children" nor did I accuse you or any other woman of being evil, in fact my exact words where that hypergamy is naturally occurring in women, which it is, just as promiscuity is in men, that not all or even most women act on it (just like men) and that the only reason why its an issue now is because society as a whole does not call out bad behavior as it once did and the legal system is designed where these types of women are rewarded for bad behavior.

[hellionthesagereborn]

At no point did I ever claim all women are evil or going to divorce men and take all of their money. Not once, in fact I went on a mini rant about how its not all women. My exact argument was that enough women are like this that our incredibly bias society and laws aid them in doing these things so some men (not me) have decided to minimize their risk by not marrying, some by not dating and others still by minimizing their contact with women all together. I stated they had a reason for it and it wasn't because they hated women but because society and our legal system seems to hate men and that's what they are trying to avoid. Clearly you have a problem because you refuse to listen, you refuse to hear what is being said instead opting for blanket judgments and attacks on me and men who are willing to point out the extreme bias and unfairness of our society and legal system. I never said the things you claimed I said, that was a lie you told to cover your own insecurities and to

[hellionthesagereborn]

justify to yourself your anger and hatred. If your father was a victim of this then why would you be surprised that other men seeing this would decide to try and avoid it? I never accused you of being this or that, what I stated is that when women refuse to acknowledge the injustices done to men they are part of the problem and they help make men not trust them, because they don't want to acknowledge their power over the man and thus seem to be condoning the behavior. So, again, what your saying I claimed is entirely fabricated. As for divorce, no, divorce does not go both ways, it more often then not goes one way. Why do you think that every woman was justified in her actions? That's insane. That's like me saying no man has ever beaten a woman who didn't do something to warrant it. Doesn't that sound screwed up? It should, and that's what your claiming that some how he was to blame for the divorce because it goes "both ways" even as data shows that is not the case.

[hellionthesagereborn]

The fact is you have a chip on your shoulder either because you have done something like this or you are overcompensating or some one you want to be with doesn't want to risk getting screwed so you have taken it personally. I don't know what the reason is for your grudge but you are definitely the one with the problem, I am merely pointing out what MGTOW men are about because I think its important to be fair instead of just assuming all of them hate women and they are some how evil assholes (as you are trying to paint them while claiming that they are doing that to women (they are not).

[Idonthaveausername]

Women aren't inherently hypergamous. If that was true, women wouldn't be able to control it. And men aren't inherently promiscuous either. There'd be no such thing as an asexual or man who's only been with one woman if that were so

Yes my mother took advantage of the system, but my father was an abusive asshole who drove her to divorce him and use the system against him. My mother probably wouldn't have had a schizophrenic break if my father had been a decent person. Divorce is absolutely an equal fault between two people and never one-sided

But again, this MyTake isn't about politics. I wasn't attacking anybody either. If you read to the end, you'll see I clearly offered solutions

I don't have a problem with men going MGTOW. What I have a problem with is them bashing me and other women for their problems. The same way I have a problem with hardcore feminists making false rape allegations to demonize men. I addressed this to both groups equally

[hellionthesagereborn]

That is a stupid argument. Of course they could control it. If I need to go to the bathroom it doesn't mean that I just shit myself when ever I need to go, I fucking hold it until I get to a bathroom. If some one says something so incredibly stupid I don't just punch them in the mouth just because I am pissed off because they are so stupid, its called self control, people have it. That's like saying since I like sugary foods that I will eat anything with sugar in it even after being told that its laced with arsenic simply because I am wired to like sugar and thus cannot control myself. That's fucking stupid, both because clearly its entirely false because your wired to want sex yet you have managed (I presume) to go your entire life without just jumping on a guy you find attractive and trying to mate with him right then and there and because we are in fact predisposed towards certain behaviors because otherwise we would have no prefferecences for anything.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes I am sure he was an abusive asshole because they are all abusive assholes aren't they? the woman is always the victim, she was forced to destroy his life because of him, not because of her own wants and desires. Tell me was he an abusive asshole because he was an abusive asshole or was he driven to it by your mother? Because statistically women are more likely to be physically abusive and significantly more likely to be emotionally abusive and manipulative. Why isn't there shared guilt in that but it must be evenly split if its through divorce (even though by your own argument its not evenly split its entirel the mans fault, as you pointed out because women are perpetual victims (which is also a biological predisposition we have hence our system being tailored to favor women to such an extreme degree, we are incapable of having the same level of empathy for men as we do with women). See the problem with your argument? Of course you do, you just won't admit it.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Also you where in fact attacking a group of people, you attacked MGTOW's, you misrepresented their arguments and while you didn't attack men outright you did try to minimalize the systems we have in place that destroy their lives, even making excuses for the bias system by claiming that some how every single time a woman divorces a man its his fault (technically you said it takes two and in your second comment placed the blame squarely on your father meaning it was his fault and not your mothers), also claiming that I was accusing all women of being evil gold diggers etc. which of course was the exact opposite of what I said (which I repeated that was not the case multiple times) you then whent on to claim I was bitter (despite the fact that I stated I was not a MGTOW) and all MIGTOW's are bitter which itself was stated in such a way as to suggest they had no argument to make and where just wallowing in self pity (not unlike what so many feminist and women in general do).

[Idonthaveausername]

Lol. Yeah he was an abusive asshole to start with and 15 years of that mentally broke her down until her genetic predisposition for schizophrenia kicked in and she had a mental breakdown bad enough to take advantage of what the courts offer. They're both horrible people and have both ruined their own lives by being bitter over it. If the genders were switched, you'd be praising my father for being an asshole by your twisted logic

Everyone who gets divorced is at fault. Nobody is innocent in a divorce. There is always something the "victim" could have done differently

This isn't about empathy, so don't look for it here. This is about accepting your own faults and dealing with them in a healthy manner

You have the same mentality of someone I addressed this MyTake to. Your constant bashing of women isn't​ going to make you feel better at the end of the day

I didn't attack MGTOWS or their cause. I urged them to change their toxic mentalities. Read to the end, I offered solutions

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes and I am sure she was an innocent victim and wasn't in fact taking out frustration and anger out on him right? She wasn't belittling him or threatening him or refusing to have sex or be intimate with him (which contrary to what women think is vital for a man to feel wanted and loved)? Now I don't deny that its possible he was a piece of shit, it happens but I do call it out because in all probability he wasn't a piece of shit to start with otherwise your mother is incompetent because why would you be with some one who is abusive from the start? As for divorce, again no that's stupid. Frequently people try and are rejected i. e. men, see now a days women benefit from divorce and are told that nothing is ever their fault and its always the mans fault. They look to try and get the man to change but never themselves: www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...our-d_b_2341955.html

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for my "constant bashing of women" at which point did I do that? Well never. I never did that. In fact I repeated more times then I can count that it was not all women who where bad, I even stated it was not the majority. So where the hell are you getting that? Answer: your own delusional mind. See what I am saying makes to much sense to you. You can't handle that, so you have convinced yourself that I am attacking all women when in fact I have pointed out the exact opposite and was very clear that it was a social and legal problem and not because women are just inherently bad, by ignoring that you can ignore my statements that actually justify MGTOW and prove that you are in fact wrong. You can't handle that hence you lying about what I said (which is strange because you only have to scroll up and read my comments to show that you are in fact lying). You are the one who is bitter, not me. As for not attacking mgtow, well you just did by calling it toxic so there is also that.

[Idonthaveausername]

I honestly don't know the details because I was a baby when they divorced. But my father was always an abusive asshole, even before he married my mother. He was one of those kids who went around killing the neighbor's cats. He is more to blame for the divorce, but she is to blame for how horrible she made it

Your defense of a hate group is all anybody needs to see to understand you're misogynistic in nature. If you aren't, then you're associating yourself with the wrong crowd and probably shouldn't do that

I don't lie and I haven't lied here

And once again, this isn't about why men choose to become MGTOWs, it is about how to overcome the toxic mentality that leads someone to become such. And that has nothing to do with laws or society

[hellionthesagereborn]

So, to be clear, you have no idea what your father did, but some how know that he was abusive? Who told you this? Has he been abusive to you? Or is it something your mother told you? Because women like to use there children to hurt their ex's, its sadly quite common. Now what hate group am I defending? How have I been misogynistic exactly? Because I have pointed out irrefutable facts? Shown that the law is against men and in favor of women? That I have acknowledged that women are in fact as capable of wrong doing as men, not more so but equally capable? That's not misogyny, that's reality. You, you are the one with a problem, your the one attacking men and attacking me. Your the one who can't let something (what ever that may be) go. I am not the one who hates another, you hate men, to some degree that's why you refuse to acknowledge their side of things and instead paint them as evil and bad, because its easier that way then confronting the problem.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Now if you think that laws don't have anything to do with why men are refusing to marry, that the laws that let women take all that those men work for, take everything they have and to take away their children, those laws which take into affect the moment you have children, the moment you get married, if those laws are not the reason why men are avoiding marriage, avoiding having children and trying to mitigate the amount of influence a woman has over them then what is the reason? They just hate women for no reason what so ever and all women are just victims? Is that it? Is it evil men just doing what evil men do? It makes me wonder why your scared of men going there own way, why does it matter to you? You clearly have no empathy for men and all the things society and the law have done to them, that has allowed women to do to them, so why do you care?

[Idonthaveausername]

No I have a general idea of what he did. His behavior is the same now as it was as a child, so I can only assume it was the same towards my mother while he was married. Yes he was abusive towards me and no I don't listen to my mother. I don't talk to either of my parents because they're both a part of this toxic, self-victimizing, hostile mentality that I wrote MyTake about

MGTOW is a hate group on GAG. They are aggressive, hostile, and misogynistic bullies who attack innocent women who haven't done anything to them. You are defending a hate group if you defend MGTOW's behavior on GAG. Once again, this is about GAG's resident MGTOWs and hardcore feminists, not politics​ or anybody you may know in real life. IDC if men don't want to marry, but they can go their own way and not bother others about it

I have a problem with a group of people bashing the opposite gender for their own problems. No I'm not going to let this bad behavior go because that would be contributing to the problem

[hellionthesagereborn]

I have not seen this. I have seen men calling out women, and yes men who are angry because so few women seem to realize that men are also human beings, that they are being treated like shit and no one, especially women, care to even acknowledge that the problem exists. Yes some people are complete assholes, but its not MGTOW as a whole. Its not self victimization when there are actual laws that are designed to exploit you for anothers (womens) benefit. That's called calling out injustice. Hence my statement that the huge problem is just that women don't want to acknowledge these issues, that's what makes so many men hesitant to trust women as a whole because women are not doing much to distinguish themselves from those who would harm them. As I said they have a reason for existing, I don't personally think it will resolve the problems but that doesn't mean that their position isn't understandable.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I mean again, you talk about them not having the right to be angry to call out society and the law for what its done, but then you want to blame them for whats happening? Don't you think that's exactly what they are doing? Calling women out for their behavior? Calling them out for not taking responsibility? For mistreating men? At which point do they get to talk about real issues? At which point do we address all of these laws that favor women and are designed specifically for women to exploite men? Or do you think I was lying about those laws? That's the problem, you want people to take responsibility, great so do I. Lets start by having women take responsibility for how they have treated men. Lets start with men taking responsibility for allowing women to hurt them again and again and giving them the opportunity to use them by always trying to protect women even from reality itself. Lets hold feminist accountable for all the unfair laws they have lobbied for.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Lets get women to take responsibility for their support of feminisim, support for these unjust sexist laws. Lets get women to take responsibility for endorsing these things either through their active participation and approval or their silence on these issues. Why is it those who call out the problems are being punished for it? If your talking about the one or two guys who claim males are superior, I agree they are idiots, I have argued with them myself but don't blame an entire group of people for the actions of a few. I have seen more hate more bigotry and double standards coming from women then I ever have from men. The fact is men will almost always side with women, that should tell you something, that things are so bad that some are finally standing up to the sexism and bigotry that is directed at them on a near constant basis. Its not women who are suffering here, its men.

[Idonthaveausername]

Well it happens whether you see it or not. A couple months ago, I had a bunch of bitter MGTOWs calling me a hypergamous, gold-digging prostitute even though I had never even been on a date or ever used a man for anything simply for expressing my views on who should pay for a date (I said it was the person who asked and you should remember this because you were one of those people​). It's hostile and bitter behavior to call a virgin a prostitute

While I agree the laws are corrupt, this is not about the laws. It is perfectly ok to become an MGTOW, but behaving in the way MGTOWs do on this site is absolutely unacceptable​

Women are no more to blame for the gender war than men. There is equal blame across the board, hence why I addressed this to MGTOWS and Feminists

Yes you can end up in a situation where it was mainly the other person's fault, but that's no excuse to treat others like crap when they haven't done anything to you, but bitterness is all your fault because it's a choice

[hellionthesagereborn]

I never once called any one a hypergamous gold digging prostitute. In fact I have never accused any one of being a gold digger nor have I accused any one of being a prostitute. I stated that if your are doing absolutely nothing in return, that he is expected to give up his money for nothing that this is unfair, if you are going to argue that you will give him sex for his money that would be prostitution. That is a far cry different then calling you personaly a prostitute. Context is everything. I also stand by my statement that if you hold some one to a traditional gender role but exempt yourself from it you are being a parasite. That goes for men and women. If a woman wants a man to pay for everything but believes she doesn't have to do what was traditionally expected of women then she is a parasite, if a man expects to not have to do what he traditionally has to do but she does, he is a parasite. That was my argument. not what you are claiming it was.

[hellionthesagereborn]

That was the problem, you where arguing that the man has to do everything that is expected of him and the woman doesn't have to do anything, that he has to prove his worth to her but she doesn't have to do anything to prove her worth to him, that he has to invest in her but she doesn't have to invest in him. That was the problem with your argument and I pointed that out, it was one sided and sexist. As for the rest of your statement sure, if a man accuses you of being a whore or a gold digger for absolutely no reason then that man is a complete asshole, but that's not what I saw. What I saw was that they stated if you are giving them sex in return for that night out/dinner/ etc that essentially by definition makes you a prostitute because you are exchanging money for sex. That wasn't an attack on you but pointing out why your argument was wrong. But again, as for the rest of your argument, that's not MGTOW, that's people and you need to recognize why they are angry i. e. because of

[hellionthesagereborn]

the discrimination they get from women (as you pointed out in your other argument where you hold a man to a standard you yourself are exempt from) and from the law. That make a lot of people angry knowing that their entire life can be destroyed with a word, that they can have everything taken from them simply because they where born the wrong gender. That does breed a lot of bitterness, but again if you want to avoid that all you have to do is acknowledge that this is a problem and most (obviously some will be complete assholes regardless of what you do) will be content with that. But that's not what you did, that's not what your doing. Your side steping the real issue and essentially telling them to shut the fuck up and just accept it. That makes people angry and hostile towards you.

[Idonthaveausername]

Again those are incorrect assumptions and insults. I never said anything about sex at the end of a first date and quite disapprove of such an act. Even if two people do have intercourse on the first date and one person pays for dinner, that doesn't automatically make the other a prostitute. And no I didn't include what effort a woman should put in because that is a different topic and I've been planning to write a MyTake on that. I never said nor do I believe that women shouldn't put equal effort into a man, but equal effort doesn't always mean equal money

People need to accept their faults. Everyone experiences discrimination sometime in their lives and they need to be able to move past it. Yes I do think they should shut up and stop wining, but I also offered solutions to achieve that. Being hostile is their choice, not something I incited. They were hostile before they read this

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, it was just calling things out, I recall this and have had this argument many times, women like to keep men in their traditional roles then make as many excuses as they can as to why they cannot be expected to have their own gender roles and that to do so is sexist and unfair. No, I asked what you where giving in return and you didn't answer, I then said is it sex I then pointed out that this is a claim some women make and that would make them by definition a prostitute, I then whent on to explain that I personally am very much against that but at least then their is some kind of an exchange. Your ignoring eveyrhing that is stated and you are misrepresenting everything and making it into a personal attack when it wasn't. That's the problem, you have made yourself the center of the world, everything stated is about you personally and that's why your getting angry, because you cannot see this objectively, you take it as a personal attack when it isn't.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I mean your talking about excepting their faults, why can't you? Why do you refuse to take responsibility for your statements, for your actions? Why can't you accept that you where wrong with your assessment, that you misrepresented MGTOW, that you misrepresented my statements etc. Your not accepting your faults, your not acknowledging the primary motivation of MGTOW to begin with and then trying to attack them without understanding them. If you want to say many are bitter then fine but at least explain why they are that way.

[Idonthaveausername]

I prefer traditional gender roles over this modern way of doing things. Children raised by married parents who are able to provide for and raise them properly do much better in life than those raised by single parents and daycare

People who exchange money for sex are prostitutes. Dating is not prostitution

I'm not angry. I don't let opinions of people I don't care about affect me in ways like that. Whether this is a personal attack or not is up to debate, but doesn't matter. I respond to people who respond to my points

I haven't misrepresented MGTOWs at all. My experience is that they're bitter, misogynistic, narcissist and demonize women for their own problems. If the MGTOW community wants to shape up their behavior, I'll be wrong, but that hasn't happened yet. This isn't about the cause of becoming MGTOWs, it's about their behavior

[hellionthesagereborn]

You are angry. That's why your ignoring what I am saying and making sweeping generalizations. Its not at me I don't think, but you are angry that is a near certainty. I preffer traditional gender roles as well, that's why I think women should be traditional too instead of just having men be while women give nothing in return, or worse exploit men. You have misrepresented them because you ignored the root cause of their existence, an unfair and unjust system that has exploited them and destroyed their lives for the expressed benefit of women. Yes, being treated as subhuman and having everything taken away from you with no way of fighting back, with no way of stopping it does tend to make one bitter so its not suprising that some are bitter. Your acting like a misandrist, does that mean all women are misandristic in nature? Is that not the sweeping generalizations you claimed to be against? You are wrong, you admitting to that or not is irrelevant to the fact.

[Idonthaveausername]

I'm not angry. I'm annoyed. They're very different

I'm not ignoring you. Clearly I've been answering you. If you want me to pay attention to something specific, then write one concise sentence so it doesn't get lost in a wall of text

Again, I understand the concept of MGTOWs and agree that the laws are messed up, but that is no excuse to demonize women as a whole or to insult innocent women just because you're afraid. For those who have been in bad situations, it's better to address their own faults​ than to become bitter and angry

I have not misrepresented them. I represented what I've seen quite well. If they don't want to be perceived in the way I have perceived them, then they need to clean up their act and start treating others decently

Men get all of their money taken away in divorces and men also beat and kill their wives all the time. I addressed each side equally. I am neither a misandrist nor misogynist

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, you haven't read anything I was saying. You missed my point because you chose to. No men do not beat their wives and children to death all the time, that is actually really rare and technically according to the CDC and various other groups women are actually more likely to abuse their husbands then men are to abuse their wives (70% of nonreciprocal violence is commited by women against men between intimate partners) and more likely to kill their children (I believe it was a 40/60 margin).

[Idonthaveausername]

I've read everything you've posted. It's silly of you to accuse me of not doing so. I replied to what I thought was important to reply to. If there's something specific you want me to reply to, then write it in one concise sentence. I understand your point, but it's not applicable because this isn't about politics​

It's always been "rare", but it still happens all the time if you count all 7 billion people in this world. And just because one gender does it more, doesn't excuse the other gender of also doing so. More women may be violent, but the men who are violent are much more violent than the women. Neither side is better than the other or has an excuse

And like I said in my original MyTake post, it's your fault for staying in an abusive relationship, so the men being physically abused by their wives have nobody to blame except themselves for staying. But blaming and harassing the good wives who don't is stupid. Not all women or men are violent, but the ones who are are assholes

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, you ignored a lot of what I was saying and misrepresented what I was saying. You saw the words but that is a far cry different from actually reading it with the intent of trying to understand.

Also no, women are more violent and also far more deadly because they use weapons and the law doesn't do anything to them thus emboldening them to act out more because their are no consequences (as one man found out when he whent to talk to a woman in a bar and she decided to bash his face in with a glass resulting in him having to get 20 stitches in his face (the cops gave the woman a warning (it was her second time doing this)).

So is it the womans fault for being abused as well? Also unlike women if a man leaves his abusive wife he loses all of his money to her, he loses his house (if there is a mortgage on it he still has to pay it even though he isn't living there) and he loses his children. So actually the law puts him in a position where he has to put up with it unlike with women.

[Idonthaveausername]

I didn't "ignore" anything. You're not entitled to have anybody reply to everu

[Idonthaveausername]

Every sentence you wrote

Women aren't more violent than men

If you think the laws are screwed up, then do something to change them

None of this applies to my original post

If a woman stays in an abusive relationship, then yes it is her fault

[hellionthesagereborn]

So basically their is no worth in speaking to you. That's what I am getting hear, you are ignoring everything I am saying, yes women are more abusive then men are according to the CDC/NCVS and various other sources. Laws are fucked up, that's just a fact and what I am doing about it is the only thing I can do about it at the moment which is making people aware of it so that maybe some one who has resources that I don't (because I have none) can step up and do something or at least make women aware enough of how screwed up they are to convinced them not to exploit them. Yes what I stated does have something to do with the topic, you claimed migtow hated women I stated no they hate the extremely bias laws and the fact that women are actively trying to pretend the laws are not bias and defending the actions of women who exploit these laws and social norms to their benefit and to the mans detriment. That is absolutely relevant.

[Idonthaveausername]

No it's not relevant and it's a completely different topic than I chose to discuss here. I addressed the MGTOWs who hate women and Feminists who hate men on this site. This isn't about politics

You aren't going to raise awareness by insulting people and telling them they're wrong or not looking at something the right way. If you want to change someone's view of something, you have to show them

I never asked you to reply to MyTake and I certainly wasn't asking anybody to change my opinion. If you want to have a serious discussion, it is worth replying. You seem to have the wrong intention here, so it may be worthless in your opinion to continue this discussion

[hellionthesagereborn]

No you said MGTOW, that's what happened, you stated MGTOW hate women and that's not the case. I corrected you. Say what ever else you wish but you will continue to be wrong. I was stating what MGTOW was about and why they do what they do. You misrepresented them, I was correcting you so yes this was on topic. I don't know why your incapable of admitting your error but you did make one. I told you you where wrong because you quite literally where wrong. I don't know why you think that this was wrong of me. Do you not like being challenged on things or corrected? I tried to raise awareness and point out why what your saying was inaccurate in a very civil manner. If you cannot or more accurately will not listen to others then yes I do believe this is a waste of time clearly being right is more important to you then the facts.

[Idonthaveausername]

The MGTOWs on this site clearly hate women. They berate woman, demonize women, and blame women for their problems. You might not be an MGTOW, but it's clear you have the same mindset

You're not correcting me because I'm not wrong, therefore there's nothing to correct. You're probably just another troll trying to get me to block you. Lol I don't play immature games like that. I'm​ secure enough in my self and beliefs that I don't allow faceless people to influence me

[Wwwyzzerdd]

I don't hate women.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

I merely hold women accountable for their behavior. MGTOW's hate feminism. Not all women are feminist so there are still some women that are worth our time.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Once again she's trying to state MGTOW does this or that yet all she's doing is assuming.

[Idonthaveausername]

@Wwwyzzerdd
I'm not assuming anything. When someone calls me a prostitute even though I'm a virgin or when I got called a gold-digger even though I'd never been on a date, that was a direct attack on me, accusing me of being something that other women have been even though I'm not, and demonizing me for the faults of others. That is hate driven by bitterness

[CubsterShura]

This is a good post, however...

1) The first thing you mentioned, it's not as easy as you're saying that it is. After my ex and I broke up, I accepted that we both had our own flaws and moved on, in fact I used to put more blame on myself like "if I rather did that we would not break up" it's months after our breakup that I got to know my ex used to flirt with other girls a lot... how will I know it? We both have our lives and I cannot stalk him everywhere it's rude. I was never possessive and he took advantage of that. I trusted him and he misused it. How's it my fault?

2) I know I'm a very bookish anti-social boring girl, but I'm still pretty talented, smart and humorous. Most people don't like me because I'm different from other people and they really judge me and make fun of me. Only a few people who are my close friends told me that I'm one of a kind. I'm not better or worse than anyone, I'm just different and it's ok. Yeah I wish I had guys crushing on me too and I feel sad, but I know there's nothing wrong with me.

3) Yo, I recently got rid of having the habit of thinking that everything is my fault and something is wrong with me, I finally accepted that nothing is wrong with me and it's the people around. Don't bring those negative thoughts back again. The topic you brought, some people like me suffer with the opposite problem: "It's all MY fault!!!"

[Shadow44]

Somethings in a relationship aren't our fault, some things are flaws that we could improve on. The key is not blaming yourself but knowing how and where to improve and constantly improving yourself. I used to wonder what's wrong with me back in high school. I was also very introverted and liked the sciences. It wasn't easy finding a girl with similar interests who was also interested in dating me at the time. Never had much of a problem with people judging or making fun of me though.

When you dive into pop culture because that's where all your interests are, then it's more likely that you'll find someone to date. That doesn't necessarily mean you'll enjoy dating that person or feel anything for them. There's way more to life than relationships. Keep on enjoying life and doing what makes you happy.

[CubsterShura]

@Shadow44 I'm not into pop culture. And I'm actually in a really happy relationship for now. :)

[Shadow44]

Ahh congrats. I wish you two the best. I was just meaning to say that those who aren't into pop culture usually have a harder time finding a partner. Thouh those relationships tend to last longer from what I've seen.

[Warmapplecrumble]

Don't understand the down votes

[Idonthaveausername]

You seem to have the problem of undervaluing yourself. That is what causes people to end up feeling taken advantage of. Insecurity is a major issue in relationships, so it's good you have overcome yours and are now in a happy relationship

[Warmapplecrumble]

This is not my relationship story, but ones I've seen from relatives and friends.

[CubsterShura]

@Idonthaveausername Although I has insecurities, I never had any thoughts of being taken advantage of because I trusted my ex. You can't blame me if he used to flirt with other girls behind my back? You literally sound like he did nothing. As much as I'd agree that some people victimize themselves a lot, our case isn't like that. In fact I always knew we broke up because we "unfortunately" could not make it together and it was OK. Later I got to know that he took advantage of my trust.

[CubsterShura]

@Shadow44 Thank you! Never knew that pop culture and duration of relationships are connected lol.

[Idonthaveausername]

I'm not saying it's your fault he flirted with other girls. I'm saying it's your fault for staying after you find out. If you didn't stay after you found out, then this MyTake doesn't apply to you

[CubsterShura]

I found out months after we broke up. I didn't know anything about it when we were dating.

[Idonthaveausername]

I see. Then this was addressed to someone other than you, so you don't have to worry about my opinion on the subject. I hope you don't have to deal with anyone cheating on you again

[CubsterShura]

Phew, thanks! :)

[cth96190]

@Idonthaveausername
You appear to not understand that MGTOW is about.
We do not seek to harm women in an active way. We have simply walked away. We choose to not interact with women, so far as that is possible. We do not date, or form relationships with women. We absolutely to not have sex with women. We are not PUAs.
The reason that we have done this is a combination of female behaviour and changes to law that have been implemented by the politicians who pander to Feminists.
To use the common term, we are done.
MGTOW is a defensive response to Feminism and inherent female nature.
This is a big contrast with Feminism, which spends much of its time attacking men, especially heterosexual white men.
A rational assessment, by men, of the current legal and social environment, on a cost/risk/benefit basis, leads to the rational conclusion that interaction with women fails the test. . . big time.
We are not gay. Most of us are not TFL. None of us are PUAs, whose actions and world view are almost the opposite of those of MGTOW. Rather, we are men who have reached an evidence-based conclusion that the risk and potential cost of interaction with women exceeds any possible benefit by a huge margin.
Thus, we have decided that the only way to win is to not play the game.

[NerdInDenial]

Good points! Also, the bitter men in MGTOW are really MRAs.

[cth96190]

@NerdInDenial
No, MGTOW are not MRAs.
MRAs want to work within the system, to change the law, so that the gender dynamic can return to the 1950s.
MRAs want to interact with women in a way that is fair to both genders, but recognises also the differences in gender roles that are dictated by biology.
MGTOW are no longer interested in interaction with women.
We have concluded that the system is so corrupted, so broken and that gender relations are so far down the toilet, that we do not want any part of it. We are content to sit on the sideline and watch the world burn. We take that view because we believe that the MRAs are engaged in a futile exercise.

[SarahsSummer]

You poor soul.

[ThisDudeHere]

@SarahsSummer he gave a solid and reasoned argument for his position and your only response is to throw an ad-hominen at him?

[hellionthesagereborn]

MRA's do not wish to return to the 50s, where is this coming from? Have you ever heard actual MRA's talk? They want egalitarian roles for men and women. Thats not 50s thats actually the exact opposite. Traditionalist want a return to previous gender roles which data does suggest makes every one happier and is better for children. Now if thats not your thing fine, but do not accuse MRA's of being something or doing something they do not. Maybe red pillers are for that but not MRA's. Thats my actual issue with MRA's as well as many other groups that it ignores biological differences and the differences in biological drives between the genders.

[ThisDudeHere]

Take writer you're the jerk here. He has yet to throw a single insult at anyone and yet you insulted him out of the blue for simply holding an opinion different than your own.

It's women like you that is the reason MGTOWs exist. Appare you ment aren't even allowed to avoid relationships and women because that somehow makes them bitter and sexist.

Men don't owe you a relationship much the same way you don't owe men sex and etc. Instead of throwing insults you should just agree to disagree.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

She assumes much while observing and listening very little. Stop being so emotionally reactionary, these guys are not attacking you or your beliefs. They are merely stating their case in response to yours and what they feel you didn't understand the first time. BREATH.

[Unit1]

@ThisDudeHere
"He has yet to throw a single insult at anyone and yet you insulted him out of the blue for simply holding an opinion different than your own.

It's women like you that is the reason MGTOWs exist."

Exactly.

With that being said the credibility of her mytake has been lost. I did not see that coming.

[Idonthaveausername]

He's insulted me plenty of times on this site and insulted plenty of others. This MyTake was a response to actions from people such as him

MGTOWs exist because they don't know how to accept their own flaws or take responsibility for their own actions

[SarahsSummer]

@ThisDudeHere you misunderstand my comment. No ad-hominem. No attack, just my observation that I feel truly sad for him, his beliefs. I just can't imagine life is better by having no interaction with women altogether.
I'm sure it's based on his experiences but, I've had experiences with some downright horrible men (and women), but would never choose to isolate myself from men as a whole. I was hopeful the the mytake owners words would energize one to acknowledge not ALL of a given gender are awful and there is hope and that hope starts at home in ones one head. Unfortunately, he/they/mgtow'rs are so jaded that even good intentioned advice is shot down as he hunkers down further in his fox hole of separatism.

[ThisDudeHere]

@SarahsSummer but that is their own choice to seclude due to their experience. To call it bad is what's actually jaded.

[SarahsSummer]

@ThisDudeHere I didn't call it bad. I find it sad. It makes me sad, for him. No attack or ad-hominem, as you say. Just expressing my own sadness for the situation. A situation that doesn't have to be.

[ThisDudeHere]

@SarahsSummer everyone copes differently. Some people prefer to not go through shit again and again.

[SarahsSummer]

@ThisDudeHere instead of shutting down or lashing out, following the advice of the mytake owner really does make sense. The more you search, the more you'll find hope and happiness. Shutting down will never really bring it. But I'm done. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[ThisDudeHere]

@SarahsSummer "Shutting down will never really bring it."
To you it wouldn't. To others it actually would, instead of the added stress of just repeating over and over what got you misery.

[SarahsSummer]

@ThisDudeHere so you've already made the assumption that what is will always be and there's no possibility of finding something different than whats already been experienced. If at age 22, (an age where life hasn't even really begun yet) that's your belief then WOW. Just wow.

[ThisDudeHere]

@SarahsSummer that is not my belief. I'm not mgtow but I am not against them. I can very easily see how they have a point in a lot of things and my arguments thus far have been about giving reason for their choices. Reason that is often logical and practical from their own point of view.

Look, no one owes anyone a relationship or, in this case, an attempt for an relationship. If a guy gets screwed over more times than he can count and it impedes on his mental and physical health, it is his right to decide that enough is enough and that he should focus on himself instead. If he seems that any more heartache from continued attempts at getting a woman is just not worth it anymore then that is his choice, his right, and there is and should not be anything "sad" about it.

Much the same way you wouldn't really call a woman sad for avoiding men after one or more rapes. It is only reasonable if she does so. She owes no man anything.

[SarahsSummer]

@ThisDudeHere I would encourage any woman who went through such a horrible experience as rape, to get professional help. And while a man feeling taken advantage of for buying dinner or being forced to pay child support is so incredibly far away from rape, he should seek professional help as well. I'm actually sickened that you would use rape to compare to anything anyone goes through.
Let's just end this discussion here and now. Please.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@SarahsSummer a

[hellionthesagereborn]

@SarahsSummer Have you ever been raped? I have and I can say that how women always jump to rape being the worse thing in the world is quite honestly bullshit. Listen if a man has everything he worked for over the course of decades taken from him instantly without having the ability to do anything about it, that's as bad as rape. You know whats worse then rape? Having your children stolen from you and not being allowed to be in there lives which is quite common know a days, that's far worse then rape, rape happens once, its uncomfortable and yes its quite psychologically scarring but you can get over it with time and reflection (of course to be fair I also had nearly been killed afterwards so perhaps this gave me perspective on the subject of just how sever rape is in the grand scheme of things that can ruin my life), but having your entire life taken away, having decades of your life taken away or worse your children? That's not something people get over.

[ThisDudeHere]

@SarahsSummer my comparison was just to get the point across. Yes they can't exactly be compared but being screwed owes the way some men are is not far from it in terms of how it can ruin someone's life.

[NerdInDenial]

@ThisDudeHere Good points, but she ignored how men's lives are affected by false accusations. In fact, there's a man who sat in prison for 20 years for being falsely accused. I have a friend who was falsely accused because the girl's fiancee found out that my friend slept with her. Women need to hold one another accountable, but that's the whole injustice of the system. Women have the rights and authority but do not want the responsibility. All of the responsibility goes to men. The system is rigged against men.

[Idonthaveausername]

@NerdInDenial
Again, this MyTake has nothing to do with politics or "the system". I addressed this to the two main groups of people on this site who blame the opposite gender for their relationship problems (such as yourself). People in happy, healthy marriages for the right reasons don't have to mess with divorce laws anyway. And if that's a topic you wish to discuss, you can go write your own MyTake about it

[NerdInDenial]

You misunderstand me. I don't blame women for my "relationship problems." The problem is that men face a giant obstacle to find that "happiness." I have no desire to enter a merger with a woman in the Western World.

[TeenageDirtbagg]

This take is brilliant for the most part the only thing I disagree with is the part about abusive relationships and it being the victims fault.

Having seen abusive relationships first hand, I can tell you the men/women don't appear abusive at first, they're usually charming everything you could ask for therefore you ignore the red flags or miss them completely because you're falling in love it makes the person blind.

by the time it comes to the first time someone is hit they think 'alright he/she won't do it again they love me, they just had a bad day' and that's where it starts, for the most part the abusive person will be trapping the victim financially, socially, and mentally abusing that person. So they let it happen because maybe they can't leave, or they don't know it's wrong they think he/she will change, he's/she is nice to me most of the time.

So no i don't think it's the victims fault and I don't know your life but unless you've been in a situation where you love someone but they keep doing wrong by you, you'll never know what it feels like to be put in an abusive relationship, you don't know what's going through that persons mind and their reasons for not leaving. I do think they should leave don't get me wrong

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you

Getting into an abusive relationship isn't your fault, but staying in one is. I understand perfectly fine because my parents were extremely abusive. I ran away as a child and left again when I was 18 and the cops couldn't drag me back. There's no more difficulty in leaving anyone else

[3-BakersBread-3]

What if men are gold diggers and women spend $100 on their first date and he doesn't continue with her?

Also, it is not my fault always. You don't know people's situation. Some people do their all and the other person doesn't want to take a chance with them. I'm honest on my dating profiles when I say I'm 5'4" 138 lbs and many say really and don't continue. I tell them I like feeding them cherries, holding hands and they rarely even reply. If they do, they fizz out.

Double standards can always go away if the people wanted them to but most people don't.

There is no reason that men can't show skin like women do. It is not a fact nor a law that women have to show more. Women can be attracted to men in bugs bunny jumpsuits that are shorts and him wearing 4" heels with nail polish. It is socially acceptable for me to wear 4' heels with nail polish. It may not be for others but it is for me.

There are also women who only want sex from men. Men prostitute themselves too. Maybe some women don't think men are worth $20 for a coke and burger either. Women can pay that price too.

You use 'girls' for women. Why don't you use 'boys' for men? It shows you hold men accountable but not women. Just pass them off as girls who don't know any better.

I don't like the term 'guy'. There is no such thing as a 'guy'. You are either a man or a woman and that's it. Not a lady, gentleman, dude or whatever. You're a man or you're a woman.

It is not my fault if nobody approaches me. I put my profile stats out there so they can know what I'm about.

Wouldn't you love cherries fed to you? Come on!

[TheUsername27]

A woman paying for the entire first date... yet alone splashing out $100 on it is UNHEARD of. I haven't got time to read much... so yeah i probably missed something mb if so.

[3-BakersBread-3]

A man paying $100 on a 1st date is unheard of also.

[Shadow44]

Assuming you're meeting basic hygeine standards, and looking your best, sometimes it helps to approach men (especially in person). Some guys get shy or nervous to approach and others try to find the right moment to approach (which may never present itself). I know guys who talk themselves out of approaching a girl because they don't want to bother her or interrupt what she's doing.

I wouldn't blame yourself on not getting approached because most the time guys don't approach and it's for various reasons. I'd say just focus the rest of your life, keep improving yourself and have fun with your hobbies. Just do what makes you happy because one it helps with getting guys to approach if you seem happy and two even if guys don't approach you'll be happy anyways.

Dating is about finding someone we resonate with and that's easier for some people than others depending on their interests and how introverted they are.

[TheUsername27]

Depends where you live. But no man should have to pay anything near that for some random bitch. You are no princess... your not special... you can be replaced... unless he has nothing going for him yeah he may have to pay for your shit.

[Idonthaveausername]

@TheUsername27
My boyfriend doesn't think I'm some random bitch, he actually respects me because I'm not. On our first date he told me he likes me because I'm "different in a special way," so yes he does think I'm special. He isn't trying to replace me and he enjoys paying for our dates, buying me cold medicine when I'm sick, and generally trying to help provide for me

[Billlewis]

Oh, no it's not, ma'am. If a beautiful woman who already has a boyfriend wants to go out on one, and only one date, to use me for a free meal, and then bring her week's supply of carry out leftovers home to him, I consider that a tremendous honor, and I've had several women run the bill well in excess of a hundred dollars.

[JudgmentDay]

Meh. Why be either? Childfree and Single for Life makes more sense than hating on and blaming the other gender. Blaming the other gender for this and or for that makes no sense to me. It's a waste of time, energy, and effort to hate and blame the other gender or each other. But for those that believe MGTOW and Hardcore Feminist crowds are for them and provide them a sense of belonging, comfort, purpose or meaning, or whatever the fuck it is that they want or like, then GO AHEAD. Do whatever. It does make me wonder some times though, are there people in either crowd Childfree (voluntary childlessness) and/or single for life/single forever? @Unit1 makes more sense to blame the whole fucking system instead and give up supporting it any more than we're required to, am I right?

[Unit1]

Even more so if MGTOW are truly going their own way as they say, why are they focusing so much on (hating and blaming) women? In essence they are returning from going their own way this way.
But I have 0 respect and sympathy for obvious misogynists and misandrists.

By system you mean the way our society works mainly because of how the government is established and controlling us. I believe the system (government) has not too much to do with members of society becoming bitter haters of the opposite sex.
The issue we are addressing here is the hate and discrimination of the opposite sex when in reality everyone can simply own up and be more responsible and watch who they are interacting with AND ALSO react properly to what happens to them. Feminazis and Misogynists-GTOW choose to react completely bitter. As a former MGTOW I have chosen to be more responsible and part out of misogynistic practices and associate myself with the good women instead.

[JudgmentDay]

@Unit1 remember modern feudalism? That's the actual reality now. We're just slaves to this system, once somebody recognizes this they'll have to decide for themselves, then does it make sense to support it any more than they are required to? Not so much the government but rather the corporations and banks that have strong influence over them.

[Unit1]

Sure but we are still all nothing more than expendable taxpayers and if you are a man, then you are also an expendable soldier.

I will try to explain this as short to you as possible:
We need to make money in order to buy things to live (food, shelter, clothes...).
In order to make money we need to work on a job
The government takes a certain amount of taxes from your monthly payment and from your fellow taxpayers also.
These taxes they use to fund healthcare, construction and state universities BUT ALSO to fund wars and make economical failure decisions. On top of that, they prohibit you by law to do things you want to do (drugs, owning guns, blocking the internet...)

They control us.
We are their puppets.

But we are driving off topic here. The issue we are addressing here are the misogynists-GTOW and Feminazis. I don't want either to succeed so I am not supporting either BUT i am also not opposing them also because why should I?

[Unit1]

I just believe, that both Misogynists-GTOW and Feminazis will not achieve anything of significance other than their own life's destiny possibly full of bitterness and hating the opposite sex. I say let them be and hope they won't touch you.

I also believe that both groups are not worth paying too much attention to as it gives them only more power. But like I said, I believe they will not achieve anything in terms of changing society as a whole, the systems or the laws.
But we have the media spoonfeeding men and women - which is something I realized in my childhood and never bothered with TV again.

[Idonthaveausername]

That's a fine mentally to have. Until about a year ago, I wasn't even interested in dating, but I didn't demonize men just because I wasn't interested in them. (Now I have a boyfriend and I'm very happy with him). There's nothing wrong with not wanting children

Blaming the "system" is the same toxic victim mentality that will only feed into your own misery because it deflects blame and allows one to not have to accept one's faults. Dating shouldn't be viewed as a system or a game and society shouldn't dictate who or what will make you happy in life

[Unit1]

I was completely disinterested in women until I was 21 years old and met (online only) some amazing ladies! Never did I demonize girls.
Now sometimes I get too lonely or emotional or feel awful when I have no girlfriend but I remind myself, that relationships aren't all rainbows and chocolate rain. I also remind myself, that the majority of relationships fail for a reason.
So I just do what I do and enjoy my eternal singlehood. There is much more to life than girls.

I agree, dating isn't a "game". It's dating. Games are those things I play on my computer.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

To answer your question yes I have been childless and single virtually my whole life. My only relationship lasted a month when I was 22, I don't even count that since it was so short. 7 years incel until I broke down from not having my physical needs met and I slept with hookers. THEY approached me every time however so again I still don't count that since I was just there and had to pay money to have my physical needs met.

[Idonthaveausername]

@Unit1
Well that's good your enjoy being single, but be open to trying possibility of someone being interested in you. You don't have to be lusting after or desiring a relationship to be open to one

And you should check your behavior on GAG. I've seen a lot of posts from you that reek of bitterness. There are some things your have to get over if you truly want to be happy

[JudgmentDay]

@Idonthaveausername that's why I think that if people choose to not have kids, they're already opting out of supporting the system any further than they had to. Look at Japan they're in the lead for birth rates decline. I'm sure @Unit1 can confirm this. So maybe it's already happening, people are deciding they've had enough of the bullshit that comes with the system and the world and don't want to bring more people into the world to go through and suffer from all the problems they had to deal with and is still dealing with. Maybe one day the percentage of people not wanting kids would increase significantly.

You're right about one thing though, on how dating shouldn't be viewed as a system or a game and society shouldn't dictate who or what will make you happy in life. If somebody wants to date, then date, can't convince them not to anyway. Besides, you're only happy if you believe you are happy and feel that you are happy.

[Unit1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men

They are a thing. I admire them to some degree and I can see having something in common with them.
Still, I am not a MGTOW and I do have a desire to have a good lady by my side - I just have the decision, that I placed more than a decade ago to not have kids and have them being taken advantage of by taxpaying like the rest of us.
They can thank me in the realm of nonexistence where I will return after death.

[Gonetowardthewind]

I'm not upset at women not dating me, I'm just upset I don't have the balls of steel to go ask a woman I find attractive on a date. However, I've slowly been working at it, so hopefully in the near future I'll have enough nerves and balls to ask someone out. However I have to know someone like a very good friend before I find them attractive.
On to the next thing, I can't believe disrespect for the opposite gender has come this far. We were made to complement, and help each other understand the world since our brain patterns are different. A man is supposed to do everything a woman couldn't (I. e heavy work, hunting, getting resources for the family) and a woman is supposed to do everything a man couldn't (I. e child birthing, nurturing, making stuff from the resources the man brought home). Not saying that man or woman have to follow this way. It's getting depressing that this is where the world has gone to

[Idonthaveausername]

That's a confidence issue and you have to become more confident as a person in general if you want to be able to ask women out. Start slowly and do things that are manageable. If wearing nice clothing makes you feel more confident, then wear nice clothing. Some people feel more confident when they excel at sports or hobbies. Find what works well for you and keep working on it. Trying to talk to strangers, especially about difficult topic, can help you open up to women or have more confidence talking about your feelings towards them

I couldn't agree more. There's nothing wrong with traditional gender roles and even studies have proven children who grow up in nuclear families perform better in school and move on to happier and more successful lives. I get that not everybody wants to be a part of that, but demonizing traditional gender roles and people who do like them goes too far

[Gonetowardthewind]

I can talk to them, I just don't trust people at first, like I open up after like 5-10 minutes of talking to them. It goes for everyone. I can talk to people without a problem as long as it's not me trying to get intimate with a girl more. Whenever a thought crosses my mind, I instantly throw it out and tell myself that she wouldn't like me or blah blah blah, and I just sit on it and don't do anything

[Idonthaveausername]

Ah I know what you're talking about. There's a psychological term for it that I can't remember right now. Basically the only cure for that is telling yourself to stop thinking and go for it. Kind of like when you're standing on a diving board and count to three before you jump--you just have to make yourself jump at the end of "3" sometime

There's nothing wrong with needing to know a girl before you ask her out. I knew I was attracted to my boyfriend the first night we met, but I pushed off his advances for 2 months before letting him take me out because I had to know he respected me first. He's the only man I've ever been on a date with because I wasn't comfortable with or wasn't interested in anybody else

I know you're only 19, but drinking a little bit of alcohol can really help with your courage. It has to be an appropriate setting and I waited until I turned 21, but that is an option if you're open to it

[Gonetowardthewind]

Nah I don't drink alcohol while I'm underage. I've drank it in Canada and the Bahamas before when I wasn't stressing about school. Ohh well, at least I got a lot farther with being at ease the past year than before.

[Idonthaveausername]

Like I said, I waited until I was 21 to drink too, but it's recently helped me open up more to people and make a lot more friends because it makes me friendlier

There are other ways to make yourself more comfortable with intimate conversation with women. Sometimes it helps to start with someone you're not attracted to and just talk about things you don't normally talk about. You can also talk with old people or other guys who are also interested in learning how to open up better

Stressing about school or work can hinder your social interaction. Being stressed can cause you to be more on-guard and tense in general. I know I've been a lot less stressed the last couple years here. Life really does start after graduation

[vonasaurus]

i generally agree with most of what you wrote.

however

re: abusive relationships~ your statement is a bit of an oversimplification: if you can leave without risking harm to yourself (or children, if they are involved), you should absolutely leave. but it isn't always possible for someone to leave an abusive relationship safely, and the abused person has often been brainwashed to believe that there is no way out.

the most dangerous period (for women, at least) is the first few months following a breakup. often, the woman will leave an abusive partner, only for him to stalk and kill her later on.

(i'm sure this happens to men too, though the only articles i've been able to find so far were targeted at female audiences and therefore written by/for women).

[Idonthaveausername]

While I agree it is dangerous to leave abusive relationships, I fully believe that it's much easier to leave before the relationship turns abusive or the first time it is. The longer you wait, the harder and more dangerous it is to leave, yes. But that's why people need to respect themselves enough to not remain in abusive relationships and to respect their partner enough not to instigate one. I have never met anyone who was entirely a victim in an abusive relationship because the "victims" I've known were all instigators. If there are children involved, that's even more of a reason to leave

[Warmapplecrumble]

Being someone who has seen abuse, I totally agree with @vonasaurus, there is no way you can tell these people are bad. They usually are very nice to everyone, in fact the relationship is really good for few years, then you see their true colours.

And the women these guys prey on could be arranged married from a different country, they know literally nothing, or they pick damaged women who abuse drugs etc... and then they give them what they want. Then abuse starts.. after they totally handicap the victim and they have no where to run.

[Idonthaveausername]

@Warmapplecrumble
Unfortunately situations like that happen, but those aren't the people I addressed this MyTake to. I addressed this to bitter people on GAG who can't accept their own faults​. Staying in an abusive relationship when you live in a country where it is possible to get out because there are resources and shelters is your fault. Obviously being sold into an abusive arranged marriage isn't

[Warmapplecrumble]

@idonthaveusername well agree with you there :-)

but abusive relationships are in my opinion not the persons fault because they might not have anywhere else to go,

And there are obviously third world countries where feminism is needed because the way men treat those women

Other than that I agree with you

[Browneye57]

Kinda TLDR, but this: ""Equal" and "fair" are not terms you should be using in a relationship. If you have diluted your relationship to equality and fairness, then you're too selfish. If you love someone (and yeah, if you're only dating, but are interested in finding someone to love) then you need to do things for your partner without expecting anything in return."

Love is about giving more than getting. Most people aren't really ready to be in a relationship - they haven't developed themselves fully as a whole person yet, so they have nothing to give.

It's a lot of hooha here but seems to be fairly on target. Did you come up with all this by yourself?

[Nyx_85]

Agreed. If both partners focused on making the other happy without expecting something in return or keeping tabs a lot of people would probably be happier in their relationships. And equality is a great concept but it doesn't always work out. People aren't all the same. Equity is a more realistic goal. Let's say you have a couple where both work but one makes like five times more than the other. While splitting bills down the middle is equal it also means that the higher earner is left with far more expendable cash while the lower earner has little (if any). Which can be very taxing when they want to buy something. Especially if they are trying to maintain a savings account. I mean what if you break up? They need their own money. What is fair is both partners spending roughly the same percentage of their paychecks on bills. Which means the higher earner will be spending more, based on the percentage of their income. This is equity.

[Browneye57]

@Nyx_85 -"If both partners focused on making the other happy without expecting something in return or keeping tabs, a lot of people would probably be happier in their relationships. "
This. How'd you get to be such a smart cookie? :)

Some guy is gonna luck out and get a really great woman!

[Nyx_85]

Haha thanks. It seems that a lot of people would rather complain about how they are being treated rather than realize the fact that the only one responsible for our actions is us. We should focused on being our best instead of wasting all our energy worrying about others. We control ourselves and that's it. We can't control another. And when we realize that we can let go of the people who aren't good for us. It's like people don't want to work on themselves. They just want to complain about everyone else and then they wonder why nothing gets better. Hmmm I wonder why?

[Nyx_85]

On a related note, my mom has been trying to control and change my dad for almost 40 years. Granted he has his faults (as does she) but they have the same arguments over and over. Nothing changes. Years ago I asked her why she keeps yelling at him about the same stuff. She said "Because he never listens!" and I was like "Well how is the yelling going for you? Has he learned to listen?" "No..." "So why do you do it if nothing changes?" "Because he makes me angry." "Well do you really have to yell? You can't control what he does but can't you at least control your actions? Maybe he doesn't listen because you yell.."

I don't think she got it though. They've been on the verve of divorce since I was little.

[Browneye57]

@Nyx_85 - A few things come to mind.

1. What you're saying here is the basis of Red Pill Theory. Good, bad, or indifferent, this is what it's all about.
2. Guys get with girls hoping they'll never change. Girls get with guys thinking if they bug the shit out of them hard enough for long enough they can change them into something they might possibly stand to be with. :)
3. Now, the next step for you is developing your networth in a relationship. Evaluate what you bring that is of high value. What differentiates you, what is seen as being worthwhile. Most girls think all they need is their 'golden vagina'. I know you have value because of the way you think, but it will help you to flesh this out in your mind and continue to work on those things that are.
4. And finally, a basic understanding of what men want. It's very basic, but most women are either don't believe it, are unwilling to provide them, or simply don't want to.

--> cont

[Browneye57]

Of all the posts here on GAG yours is the most enjoyable to read. You have provided new found hope for your generation. :)

Actually, you sound a lot like my oldest daughter - she's 30. She's very well adjusted, just love her to death. She was the most devastated when I left her mother 25 years ago. :(

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you both for having an intelligent conversation in my comments. I agree with the majority of what both of you said, but unfortunately am unable to respond to all of it

Until about a year ago I myself wasn't interested in a relationship because I wasn't in a place mentally/emotionally/financially.. to have one. Now that I've improved my standing in life, I've found someone who makes me very happy and that I can respect and want to make happy in return

As for your question on how I can up with it, that's partially my own opinion based on what I've seen others do in their relationships and partially taken from other views and opinions I've seen and agreed with. Personal philosophy should always be open to change and sometimes it's much easier and quicker to learn a lesson from someone else's mistake

[Browneye57]

Ha. And here I thought Nyx_85 was OP. Oh well, she still gets the gold star.
As for OP, I'm impressed that you thought to realize you weren't ready and did work to improve your situation so that you were. Commendable.

How did we get our own little section of bright ladies in a sea of special snowflakes?

:)

[Nyx_85]

I have mixed feelings about RPT haha. For one I think it's good that it teaches women are just imperfect humans like everyone else and that guys shouldn't put up with bad behavior just because we have vaginas. Or because they feel the need 'save us'. I've seen guy friends in bad relationships with the excuse "Well she's hot..." or "I feel bad for her". It also teaches women to learn how to accept our faults (which is the first step to working on them). But on the other hand some parts of it can be a bit too black and white. Like "Everyone is this way and there is no in-between". Some guys get really bitter and angry. Which I mean is understandable when they put the women in their lives on a pedestal then got let down. The first initial reaction is going to be anger. Though some guys use it as a way to blame women without looking at their own faults (which if they ventured more in RPT they would see that it teaches self improvement). Which is definitely something women do as well.

[Nyx_85]

Also some red pillers are really into the whole 'fertile age' thing. Being that I'm over 30 according to them I'm out that category (even though the major risks don't really start until after 35. Also men have their own issues as well. As they age their sperm develops more abnormalities which can kind of puts a damper in the theory that men can wait forever to have kids). But I've also never wanted to have kids so I've, without hesitation, volunteered myself out of it. That isn't a problem for me. It's been a disagreement in some of my relationships. I probably would have been married with kids by now if that was my thing. Though yeah being told that by some that I don't have value can be annoying. Like is bearing children my only worth? If kids are in my future I personally would rather adopt. Or become a foster parent. As long as you are healthy there isn't an age limit on that. There are tons of kids that need a loving home.

[Nyx_85]

"Actually, you sound a lot like my oldest daughter - she's 30. She's very well adjusted, just love her to death. She was the most devastated when I left her mother 25 years ago."

That is great that she is doing well. I'm sure it was hard on her though as someone who has gone through the opposite (parents that stayed together) I can say that in the long run you probably did the best thing for her. It took me some time to figure out what a healthy relationship was.

[Nyx_85]

@Idonthaveausername You and I are the same way. I am not interested in dating if I don't feel right with myself. And sometimes I can feel totally right but I simply just don't feel like it. I mean would I like a good relationship? Yes, but it's not my ultimate goal in life (my ultimate goal is to help the world in some way). I see too many people use their relationships as a crutch. And they all ultimately fail. A lot of people I've know (and have known) act like I'm nuts because I'm not obsessed with bagging a dude. I like to take time between relationships but I get looks of sympathy when people find out I'm single. When I say it's by choice it's often followed by a look of confusion. I get friends (and even friend's parents haha) trying to set me up with guys because I MUST be totally lonely. One time out at the bar my friend was flirting with a dude and his friend came up to me saying "I'm going to talk to you because I don't want you to feel left out". I was like "Hah I'm good".

[Nyx_85]

@Idonthaveausername
"Personal philosophy should always be open to change and sometimes it's much easier and quicker to learn a lesson from someone else's mistake"

I agree with this. I have three older sisters. This has helped me a lot lol.

[Idonthaveausername]

She wrote a lot of good things here, so she deserves a gold star. Thanks for commending me. I had to have a decent enough job to be able to live on my own and take a couple of years to clear my head and figure out what I want in life and a relationship. Now that I've figured all that out, the right man has come along. He told me me on our first date that he really respects me for living on my own and supporting myself because most people my age still live with their parents (he's 30), so he probably wouldn't be interested in me if I hadn't put effort into achieving the life I want first

Lol. Every once in a while you come across someone respectable on this site

[Idonthaveausername]

@Nyx_85
One of the biggest problems with the MGTOW mentality is they break down relationships into scientific and factual BS rather than going after what they want and treating women properly. There's nothing wrong with not wanting children. What counts is that you're a decent person. And yes, foster care is always an admirable option

Your view on when to put yourself in a relationship is great. I get what you mean by people not believing that you're happy being single. I've had people tell me I'm too pretty to be a virgin like being attractive inherently makes me a hoe. They don't understand me when I tell them I'm waiting for the right guy because relationships actually mean something to me and I want something that will last the rest of my life

[Browneye57]

Geez, I wish I could keep these posts from you girls and relay them elsewhere here on GAG. For the most part they are just not getting it - the FWB's, ghosting after sex, can't find a decent guy, so unhappy cuz no one will date them. They're all just so confused and it's virtually impossible to explain what you two have just laid out for everyone to see. YOU HAVE TO BE SOMEBODY TO HAVE SOMEBODY. It doesn't just happen in a vacuum!!

Gold stars all around! :)

[justkidding93]

stupid and completely wrong on most points, bad mytake. You completely overlook the way society and laws affect the dynamic between gender relations. and posting pictures such as the one claiming women are crazy because men are stupid is just retarded. Truth is women are more crazy and more stupid than men because they are inferior biologically to us. And because of womens inherent inferiority they have this instinct called hypergamy, which is why they only want to date up in terms of social value. Men on the other hand has the dominance instinct, which makes us compete with other men to get laid. These instincts are easily observable in the genders as whole so it can be generalized across populations, even if you are a unique individual you are still more or less affected by your instincts, and while genetic anomalies exist such as the lbgt community that doesn't change the rules that apply to straight people.
And women are far more bitter than men, the difference is, men complain mainly on anonymous sites because its not socially acceptable to criticize women while it is to do so against men, so women complain openly in public and in TV and in politics all the time.

So men who are single and complain about women are not in the wrong, nor are they necessarily at fault for their situations, many of us know the rules and could get a relationship if we chose to cater to womens needs. But due to how feminism and the laws fucked up the whole power dynamic many of us do not think it is worth it, and would rather stay single and casually date for sex only. We are not any worse than those who decide to work hard just to please another person and find fulfillment in doing so.

[Idonthaveausername]

This MyTake addresses how MGTOW and feminist bitterness causes problems in relationships and encourages personal improvement. I understand why our laws are screwed up perfectly fine, but that's not the topic being discussed here. You're welcome to write your own MyTake if you want

Stop calling women hypergamous on my thread

[justkidding93]

but then you still cannot compare mgtow (extremists or regular) to any kind of feminists regardless because they are completey different and not even part of the same coin. Feminists are actively trying to affect men by imposing laws to empower themselves at the cost of men, because that is the only way the genders can achieve "equality" by artificially holding men down to womens level. However Mgtow is only a symptom of these gynocentric laws that feminists are lobbying for, since women are the majority voters and the men in power want to win elections they cater to womens needs to get their votes, and end up screwing men for this reason, but it is not sustainable and will collapse. Its simply smarter to not engage in serious relationships as long as the laws are the way they are. And you cannot fault men for criticizing women when so many of them take advantage of these unfair laws and have no intention of voting for change even though they claim they want equality.

[justkidding93]

and i can call women hypergamous here if i want, you cannot stop me. Its true and relevant so thats why i mentioned it.

[Idonthaveausername]

I never said anything about being on a coin and this still isn't about politics. Hardcore feminists and MGTOWS on GAG have similar victim mentalities and views on dating as each other. This was to address their main problems and encourage healthy solutions

Women are not hypergamous. No matter how many times you say it, it will not be true. The more you say it, the more bitter you will become

[justkidding93]

sorry but you are simply to stupid to realize that politics are relevant as to why many men remain single and also why many dislike women. Women are hypergamous thats an indisputable fact regardless of how many times you deny it. And feminists and mgtow do not have similar victim mentalities, feminists actively lie all the time to lobby for more power, while mgtow realizes this and argue with facts but since mgtow is shamed in politics and media the only way to get things done is to not play along. Men abandoning marriage and women will eventually collapse the welfare state, and after that we will become more patriarchal again.
Im not bitter just stating facts, you however is obviously bitter otherwise you wouldn't have written this mytake.

[Idonthaveausername]

Politics have nothing to do with men choosing to be bitter and denying their own faults. If you want to talk about politics, you're welcome to write your own Take

Women aren't hypergamous, so it's not a fact, indisputable or otherwise

They both have victim mentalities when it comes to blaming the opposite gender. MGTOWs are shamed because people think it's a laughable, weak mentality to have and they aren't going about their cause in a mentally healthy way

No matter how much you pity yourself, the majority of marriages don't end in divorce and welfare, so nothing will collapse. Plenty of others like myself will have happy marriages despite you

I wrote this because I've been attacked and harassed by bitter feminists and MGTOWs on this site. I'm not a bitter person. In fact, I offered solutions at the end of MyTake if you care to actually read it

[justkidding93]

sorry but you're simply completely wrong. Men aren't being bitter or at fault just because they dont want a serious relationship or because they have negative criticism about women. Nor are all the men who cannot get a serious relationship but want it at fault neccessarily, that depends on the case.

One thing for sure though is that there is something inherently wrong about women in general, exceptions exist but as a whole, as a group women have quite clearly proven to us that they cannot handle living in an "equal" society, since they still want the benefits that their traditional gender role used to provide for them. it will correct itself with time and we will become a patriarchy again and dating will change drastically once women are again more dependent on men and can't rely on the state and welfare like they do today.

Politics are highly relevant to this subject wheter you like it or not. And women are hypergamous, thats a cold hard fact.

[justkidding93]

and nope, mgtows are not pathetic or weak in any way, the only reason they are shamed is because feminists and leftists have created a social environment where criticizing women is considered controversial, regardless of how factual the criticism is.
Even though feminists control the political narrative to a large degree, most people still laugh at feminists and they are considered so dumb and pathetic these days that women at large have started to avoid the label as well.
Marriage is declining rapidly, nothing you can do about it, and the welfare state will collapse, its inevitable. Its understandable that you are in fear and denial about it though, it will end badly for women. And i dont pity myself, i have high confidence in myself and the statements i make. You however are bitter and insecure and your "solutions" are dumb, it doesn't matter what mentality you have the laws can still fuck up your life and men have very little control about it unless they go mgtow.

[Idonthaveausername]

Men are extremely bitter on this site when they spout off misogynistic BS like that

There's nothing wrong with women in general and women aren't hypergamous

I don't use welfare and don't plan on it because I am financially independent and would only have children within financial security. The welfare system is going under because there's too many old people on Medicare

Unlike you, I have nothing to be bitter about. I'm in a happy and healthy relationship because both my boyfriend and I accept our own faults

[justkidding93]

nope, wrong again, just because something is anti-woman and so called misogynistic does not change the fact that it is based on truth. What i have said is not BS at all, its all based on objective facts.

There is something inherently wrong with women because you cannot function in a "equal" society because you are not equal to men, and this is why you have the hypergamy instinct, you demand more from men than men demand from you, because you need men more than men need women. This is all fact.

You are clearly bitter, but im not. Im simply stating facts. And i dont care if you have a relationship or not, people in relationships are not better nor happier on average compared to people who choose to live single.

[justkidding93]

also you're wrong about this too, the welfare state is going under because of what i said, not because of old people. Women are largely at fault because as a group they dont contribute much to producing wealth and paying taxes, you take more out of the system compared to what you contribute over your lifetime on average.

see this for proof:

nkilsdonkgervais.wordpress.com/.../research-finds-that-the-state-is-entirely-funded-by-male-taxpayers

[Idonthaveausername]

Misogyny and misandry are both wrong. You "base" your opinion on "subjective" facts, not "objective" facts. Furthermore, they aren't real facts to begin with

Actually this species needs women to survive more than it needs men. If all of the men but one were wiped out, then humans could still survive, but wiping out all but one woman would mean extinction for human kind.

Women aren't hypergamous

Actual facts prove you wrong. Couples in long term relationships have less depression than and have more happiness and life satisfaction than singles

The welfare system is going under because welfare is a flawed system, not because of women. I don't use welfare and I pay taxes, so I put a lot more into welfare than I take out

[justkidding93]

nope, everything I've said is based on objective real facts, not subjective ones. deal with it.

And again you are wrong. Men are more needed than women. For reproduction alone women are more essential, but in a scenario where you have many women and very few men, unless more men are being born for the next generation, the women of that group will not be able to hunt for food and protect themselves from dangerous animals or other attacking tribes. And if we are talking a modern scenario, then women cannot sustain civilization because you are too weak to do the hard labour required. So without a large portion of men mankind would die out very quickly anyway. And as mentioned women need men more than men need women, this will be even more true once the artificial womb is widely available.

[justkidding93]

Women are definitely hypergamous, the facts prove me correct and prove you wrong. Married couples actually have less happiness than single people do on average, and women have started to become more unhappy with every year since the rise of feminism, while mens happiness have remained unchanged.
And again its a fact that women are the main reason why the welfare system is collapsing, this will always be a fact regardless of how much you want to deny it. You are probably not aware of how much women including you cost society in terms of medical care, free abortions and other benefits used for women, shelters, education focused on women, breast cancer aid, the fact that so many women get paid maternal leave, you live longer and are a burden when you are old and cannot work. etc. And again im talking as a group, exceptions always exist on an individual level but i doubt you are one of them regardless of your claim.

[Idonthaveausername]

You are incorrect and believe false facts

Women are not hypergamous

We don't need to hunt wild animals. There are enough women capable of physical labor to replace all of men, so yes, an all-female society with only one man could survive in today's world

I don't use welfare or cost the healthcare system any money because I work and have my own health insurance. And I certainly don't have any need for an abortion and would never kill an innocent child

And I don't lie

[justkidding93]

nope, im correct and the things I've said are all based on facts. Nothing you say can change that. Women are hypergamous, you're simply wrong, get over it. And nope, women would not be able to sustain society by themselves at all, if men stopped working, the world would stop within 48 hours, and women would not be able to replace us. You are simply to weak to work enough to sustain the large population we have, so it would dwindle. There is a reason why there have never been any matriarchal society worth noting in history.

[Idonthaveausername]

You're incorrect and your "facts" are falsities formulated by biased, bitter men

Women are not hypergamous no matter how hard you convince yourself of that

Women could sustain society with the proper adjustments

There are plenty of matriarchal societies, just not governments. War has been the job of men because they're more fit for fighting and less essential to child-rearing

[justkidding93]

nope, im 100% correct and everything i said is based on cold hard fact and has nothing to do with any kind of bitterness. you're just wrong, regardless of how much you deny it.

Women are hypergamous, that will always be true regardless of what you say. You either are aware of it and you're trying to hide it, or you are too stupid to realize how hypergamy works.

There are not plenty of matriarchies, there are extremely few and they are all fringe mini collectives that are barely keeping it together or have stagnated completely. Patriarchy is natural because men are superior to women and we are the dominant gender. Women cannot sustain society on their own like men can.

[Idonthaveausername]

If you understood what a fact was, you would understand how completely wrong and bitter you are

Women aren't hypergamous

Many cultures put the mother at the head of the family. That is a matriarchal society. Politics has nothing to do with society's respect for family. You could use a lot more respect. Women would be able to survive without men because modern technology and robots would make you for them

Men aren't superior to men. Humans are all equal to each other unless their personal choices and actions deem otherwise

[justkidding93]

I understand what facts are, and everything i said previously was fact. You however do not understand anything because you lack intelligence, and its you who are bitter not me. End of story.

Women are hypergamous, its a cold hard fact.

And again, women cannot survive without men, even if they could reproduce asexually, men however do not need women for anything other than reproduction. Even with modern technology it would all fall apart if men stopped working, because women are too physically weak to sustain the heavy maintenance that is required to keep it working, and you conveniently avoid the fact that men are the ones who invented robots and pretty much all technology we have today.

Men are definitely superior to women, its a biological fact. Womens bodies payed a heavy price to be able to give birth, while men where free to mutate and improve in every other area, that makes us dominant and women subordinate to us.

[Idonthaveausername]

You are incorrect and your "facts" are false

Women aren't hypergamous

If that's the end of your story, you're welcome to leave any time

Women could sustain society without men. It would work just fine and be a lot less violent

Men are not superior to men. Women have a higher pain tolerance than men and live longer. If men were biologically superior, there'd be no discrepancy

[justkidding93]

Nope, im correct and my facts are not false, they are 100% true, you however are 100% wrong on everything you said.

Women are hypergamous, its fact. Women cannot sustain society without men, it would collapse in a very short time. This is also a fact.

Men are vastly superior to women, its fact. Men have higher pain tolerance than women do, you haven't properly checked your sources. And the only reason women live longer on average is due to living less physically demanding jobs and working less, also smaller bodies require less energy, but men are in prime condition for a lot longer and can produce for a longer time, while the few extra years women get in life are basically useless because you cannot work and have babies at that point, just a burden. Men are stronger, more intelligent, faster, more durable, more logical and are willing to take more risks due to testosterone, compared to women. We are simply better and nothing you say can change that fact.

[Idonthaveausername]

You are incorrect and your "facts" are false

Women aren't hypergamous

Women could sustain society without men and there'd be a lot less violence and war because of it

Men are not superior to women. Neither gender is superior or inferior to the other. Women have a higher pain tolerance than men due to the pain induced by child birth. That's why men turn into babies when they're sick or hurt

If the testosterone men have causes them to take risks that get them killed much earlier in life than women, then men certainly are less logical than women. My grandfathers both died over a decade ago, but my grandmothers both worked for the majority of that decade and still take care of others. Those extra years certainly aren't useless. One day you'll realize that when you're in the hospital being tended to by an older female​ nurse or doctor

[justkidding93]

Nope, im correct and my facts are not false, they are 100% true, you however are 100% wrong on everything you said.

Women are hypergamous, its fact. Women cannot sustain society without men, it would collapse in a very short time. This is also a fact.

And wrong again, check your sources, men have higher pain tolerance than women do, you cannot compare the specific action of having birth between men and women because we can never know how men would react to having birth, men do not react like babies when they get sick, we handle it much better than women do, most of the medical expenses go to women all over the world and also a far higher percentage of women are depressed and on medication for it. Men are better than women, end of story.

And nope, men are more logical than women, men take these risks because they are necessary for the kind of life we have in the west, you should be grateful.

[justkidding93]

most people stop working at around 65 years of age, so yes majority of women are useless in the small ammount of extra years they have, its fact. And there is nothing for me to realize, everything I've said is fact and everything you said was wrong.

[Idonthaveausername]

You couldn't be more wrong and bitter in what you're​ saying and you don't understand what a fact is at all

Women aren't hypergamous

Women do have a higher pain tolerance than men. Men are not superior to women

One of my grandmothers was a nurse in her 70s and the other in her 80s. Their extra years on my grandfathers certainly weren't useless

There's always something more to realize that you don't already. Your ignorance to this will cause you problems in the future as surely as your misogyny already has

[justkidding93]

Nope, im correct and my facts are not false, they are 100% true, you however are 100% wrong on everything you said.

Women are hypergamous, its fact. Women cannot sustain society without men, it would collapse in a very short time. This is also a fact.

And wrong again, check your sources, men have higher pain tolerance than women do.

Im not bitter, its you who are, and misogyni is not bad because women are biologically inferior to men, all men are aware of this but many won't say it just because they dont want to hinder their ability to get laid.

[Idonthaveausername]

You're completely wrong and your bitterness has obviously hindered your ability to communicate in a decent manner with the opposite gender. I actually work with someone like you and he just reminded me today of how lonely you must feel because people in real life don't want anything to do with that level of bitterness

No matter how many times you reply to this, you will always be wrong (and further proving my point). Women aren't hypergamous. Women aren't inferior to men because neither gender is superior nor inferior. And women will always have a higher pain tolerance than men due to child birth

The only guys who claim misogyny is good are the ones incapable of getting laid. Maybe they're overcompensating for being ugly or having small dicks... Guys who are capable of getting laid generally appreciate women to the extent that women have more control when it comes to sex

[Unit1]

Unfortunately even with your effort the extreme feminists and MGTOW made their choice final and are firmly set on hating and blaming the opposite sex for their problems and world problems (It snows. Blame the patriarchy/women). You can't win against those.
What are you trying to accomplish with the extreme MGTOW and feminists if you can't "encourage" them to change even a bit? They will tell you firmly their beliefs and will subtly insult you also (Ergo: You gold digger / You slave to the patriarchy).

Unfortunately also a very lot of people are simply not relationship-material. This makes the search for relationships only so hard as it is.

Also the author of that final picture obviously never heard the word "psychology" or "psychological disorder/mental disorder" or "mental sickness". And thus I strongly disagree with the author.

[Idonthaveausername]

I do agree some people are too far gone, but you are not. You're plenty young enough to make something of yourself and have plenty of time to meet your dream partner. You need to quit it with the absolutes and misogynistic BS first, but you can get there if you choose to

[Unit1]

I am already there. I dropped the misogyny some time ago with the help of guess who? THE WOMEN!!! Fantastic ladies they are :) =)

Look at the downvoting blues. The truth hurts but butthurt is a natural response to it ^^.

Unfortunately also finding a good lady is a very difficult search... but I hope it will be worth it.

[Idonthaveausername]

That's great and I encourage you to further improve yourself. Most people these days aren't marriage material, but that's no excuse to give up completely. I waited and waited until I finally found someone I liked​ enough to go on a date with and now he's my boyfriend. He respects me because of the person that I am despite what other people have tried to make me

Don't worry--it will definitely be worth it if you're patient

[Wwwyzzerdd]

I down voted because I don't blame women for the weather or other things that have no correlation. Not because you didn't have a point, I just felt it missed the mark.

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

In all due respect, MGTOW are just seeking attention, asexual or just whimps who won't strive for what they want they are too sensitive and hide.

I just seriously disagree with the concept utterly... I mean women are crucial for me I need to be around them so why would I even want cut them off..

Instant dislikes

[Wwwyzzerdd]

No, mgtow is a direct answer to feminism and going our own way. We still fuck. We still do everything other men do. We just don't buy into feminist programming which has pervaded every aspect of our culture from education to entertainment to politics.

[Topkek]

If women are crucial to you and you can't live without them, then there's something seriously wrong with you. Just saying.

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

To both of you:
1. I rarely even see feminism where I am
2. I have no problem pulling because I strive for what I want
3. Man up and develop some confidence
4. I'm obsessed with women as a straight heterosexual male... yeah there's totally something wrong with me

[Topkek]

When someone tells you to "man up", you know they're retarded.

[Topkek]

I was just like you when I was 18/19 years old, but i quickly realized that the so-called "equality" and woman nature is a bunch of propaganda and lies told to us by society/government/media our entire life.

You'll learn when you get a bit older, just wait and see.

[CasaNorba]

"I mean women are crucial for me I need to be around them so why would I even want cut them off.."

why? because you are a super white knight that's why. also men who attack us with shaming tactics like you did calling us

"attention seekers, asexual or just whimps who won't strive for what they want they are too sensitive and hide"

are usually the real whimps with manginas

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

@CasaNorba Yeha I need my satisfaction bro, I need to fuck, and I need a girl on my life. Nothing white knight about that

[CasaNorba]

yea any fool who puts pussy on pedestals is a true white knight mangina. I hope your girl doesn't pussy whip you, if you have one of course

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

@CasaNorba Are you triggered or something bro?

[Idonthaveausername]

Lol. Nothing wrong with a straight heterosexual man being obsessed with women as long as you treat women properly and aren't going around stalking or raping them. Most of the guys I know are obsessed with women, and the only ones who aren't are gay

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

@Idonthaveausername exactly

[CasaNorba]

" as long as you treat women properly and aren't going around stalking or raping them."

@Idonthaveausername to be honest a lot of the guys who do these things sound just like @MakingMeHiiiigh sounds right now. so men who don't put pussy on pedestals are automatically gay, OTFRL! this shaming tactic is very played out nowadays so why not try something more different?

this shaming tactic is also coming from the woman who says she's traditional and wants the best for her future kids... talk about hypocrisy!

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
I wasn't shaming anybody. I was actually agreeing with someone who has rational and normal views about women. I guess it's clear what kind of person you are if you don't think stalking and raping women is wrong or as severe or worse of a problem than bad divorce laws (that happy healthy marriages don't have to deal with anyway)

There's nothing hypocritical about wanting a good life for your future children if you're taking the steps to provide one

[CasaNorba]

oh yes you were @Idonthaveausername, judging a person's sexual orientation just because he/she refuses to put the opposite gender on pedestals contributes to SHAMING. you're also basically calling almost every single women in America lesbians since I never hear women here obsessing over men. and never once did I say I believe stalking and raping women isn't wrong, can you please point out when exactly did I said such a thing?

also I never said you were a hypocrite because you want a good future for your "still false made up children." I said you were a hypocrite because a minute ago you sounded like a true Madonna who's obsessed to want the best for her children who don't even exist yet and now all of the sudden you say its OK for men to obsess over women and to make matters worst you now claim that men who don't obsess with women are automatically gay

[CasaNorba]

@Idonthaveausername also I'm pretty sure that just like all the typical American bimbos you do believe deep inside that men who obsess with women are creeps. you're just opposing to this now because you want to shame MGTOW. seriously you're just another social chameleon who would say any bullshit to make herself look good to the whole world

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
I wasn't shaming anybody. All of the guys who I know who aren't obsessed with women are gay. That is a fact. If you find facts offensive, then you need to stop taking things personally that aren't intended to personally insult you. And as far as the 21st century is concerned, being gay isn't something to be ashamed about anymore

No it's guys on GAG who call all women lesbians for not being obsessed with me. I am quite obsessed with my boyfriend, so that argument is invalid

I never claimed I have children. I've said I want to have future children, but have made it clear I don't have any yet

It's perfectly alright for men to obsess over women if they're not violent or crossing​ boundaries. I've had guys obsessed with me before who eventually got over it. And I enjoy my boyfriend being obsessed with me

Again, I wasn't calling anybody gay. I was pointing out a real-world fact that guys I know are either obsessed with women or gay (obsessed with men)

[CasaNorba]

yea those are guys that "you know"@Idonthaveausername apparently you sound like you need to go out and socialize a little more because the guys that you know don't speak for all the men in the world and never once did I say being gay is something to be ashamed of, you were the one who actually brought this up in first place. and actually YOUR argument is invalid because obviously I met all women with men in general not just you and you're boyfriend. of course you're gonna put your boyfriend on pedestals since he is your boyfriend in general smarty pants.

I did say "you sounded like a true Madonna who's obsessed to want the best for her children who don't even exist yet" didn't I? sounds like you got some reading issues.

and yes you did say that men who don't obsess over women are gay and once again your facts are not "real world facts" because you don't know all men out there and the few that you know don't make up for the whole world.

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
Lol. I pity you. Your bitterness is much worse than I thought. It's clear you've never had a healthy relationship or you wouldn't be bashing on others

Not all men are the same and not all women are either. Unlike all the women you seem to know in the world, I actually care about the future I want to bring children into

I didn't accuse anybody of being gay. I'm sure there are plenty of asexual men out there, but even the guys I've met who claim to be asexual still have sex with women, just not relationship. But those men don't blame anybody for their own problems and don't demonize either gender

[CasaNorba]

@Idonthaveausername nope I never had nor do I care if I ever do and I was not bashing on anyone except those folks who bashed MGTOW first by labelling us bitter whimps and the list goes on.

and yea yea yea nobody cares about you and your kids who don't even exist yet and probably will never exist because you're probably gonna break up wit your current boyfriend within years or probably months. I bet this guys is your first boyfriend ever because apparently you are an naïve and inexperienced 22 year old who probably never had a date for prom back in high school and never had any men hit on her before or after that. seriously I can't believe a 22 year old can fantasize so much about finding the right one and putting sons/daughters who don't even exist yet as her main priority in life

seriously snap out of it sis, come back to planet earth!

[CasaNorba]

and for the last time I seriously don't care how your friends live life because luckily I'm not one of them and hopefully they your so called friends are not made up either.

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
Try again. You've bashed on me quite a bit here

Plenty of people care about my future children. You don't decide who does and doesn't care about something or someone. And I'm not planning on breaking up with my boyfriend anytime sooner or later and neither is he planning on breaking up with me

He is in fact my only boyfriend because I wasn't interested in a relationship for a long time and wasn't interested in anybody either. Nothing about having preferences and waiting for the right man makes me naive. No I didn't go to prom, but I was asked and had to turn someone down. I probably get hit on more times in a week than you do all year, so let's not stoop that low

Being 22 doesn't affect what my main goal in life can be. Over the last 2-3 years I've accomplished everything I really set out to achieve, so now I can confidently say that I want to find someone to marry and have children and spend the rest of my life with

I never said anything about my friends here

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

@CasaNorba From the looks of it, you're irrational and act too much on your emotions and past experiences without moving forward. Women are human not some sort of species set out to destroy guys. You're delusional

[CasaNorba]

@Idonthaveausername yea yea your not the one who decides when your relationship with your boyfriend will end because life is full of surprises after all. just remember that everybody makes mistake and nobody is perfect. if it was for us to decide when our relationships will end then we all would live happily ever after and feminism along with MGTOW wouldn't exist. till the good luck living your princess life of yours and I wish the best of you luck cause a naïve brat like you will really need it.

"
I never said anything about my friends here "

dude are you mentally challenged or something? you spoke about friends since the beginning of this debate. you got any more contradictions you want to add?

[CasaNorba]

@MakingMeHiiiigh experiences happen for a reason. till then come back and try to have this conversation when you really start dating and know the true nature of theirs

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

@CasaNorba

[MakingMeHiiiigh]

I'm already dating bro it's going very well and I have no issues at all

[CasaNorba]

@MakingMeHiiiigh you must not be dating enough women or you probably too damn blind to see it for yourself

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
I do have a choice in deciding when my relationship will end if I choose to end it. But I'm choosing not to end it because I enjoy it

For every relationship that had caused someone to become and MGTOW, there's 10 relationships that ended with both parties being able to move on afterwards. Turning into an MGTOW is certainly not the norm. I never even heard of them before I came on GAG

I've said nothing about my friends. I've mentioned people that I know, but I happen to know a lot of people and most of them aren't my friends. That's what people who live in the real world do--talk peacefully with other people who may not be their friends

I think we all know who the brat here is

[CasaNorba]

@Idonthaveausername again you practically have no experience in the world of relationships so I wouldn't get my hld my breath especially if this is your first relationships. Also your boyfriend is a human too so he is able to decide when it's over as well. So I suggest you do all of Wonder Woman's if you really want to keep that relationship.

Normal or not this is not for you to decide unless you are a perfected human being. Mgtow is not just about men being tired of putting up with women, it is also about
Men being sick of putting up with this gynocentric society that we live in nowadays where women can eat whatever they want whenever they want along with free desserts afterwards.

So yeah go figure it seems like you dont have any friends either. I guess you really are a sheltered individual who lives under a rock after all, no wonder why everything you've said sounds like a true fairy tale

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
No I don't have a lot of experience with my own relationship, but I pay attention to what does and doesn't work well for others. I study psychology extensively to understand what makes people act the way they do and this has helped me greatly in non-romantic relationships in ways that I can bring into one. Whether my boyfriend and I stay together or not has nothing to do with MGTOWs being bitter. I won't be bitter if we break up because I'll understand and accept why things aren't working out

If you're really going your own way, why women want to eat should be none of your concern. By dwelling in bitterness, you're only letting the bad women who hurt you win and losing yourself and a possible good woman in the future

I do in fact have friends and they are of my own choosing. I have a few very close friends and several casual friends. I live in my apartment, not a rock. Your further generic insults continue to be incorrect

[CasaNorba]

@Idonthaveausername you won't be bitter huh? this is not how you sounded a couple of days ago. couple of days ago you sounded like you got it all figured out when in reality you again lack experience in relationships.

speaking of psychology you must be mentally challenge because when I said...

"women can eat whatever they want whenever they want along with free desserts afterwards"

I wasn't being literal, this was just a metaphor on how spoiled women are nowadays. but again the majority of women nowadays are bad anyways and I'm not letting them win by choosing to give up on women in general because for a while now I decided to no longer live the life that our society wants us to live. like seriously who the hell said that as humans we must find that special S/O, marry them, start a family and live happily ever after?

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
I have my life figured out right now and have everything that I need at the moment. I'm exactly where I want to be. And no I wouldn't be bitter because I refuse to allow other people to have enough power over me to make me bitter

I understand the metaphor, but disagree. Women are not spoiled, and especially not by men. Just look around at all the girls complaining about​ being used for or denied sex

If you don't want to date, that is perfectly fine, just stop blaming innocent women for your problems and stop demonizing good women who aren't what you accuse them of being. Stop being hostile and actually go away

[CasaNorba]

the reason why women complain about everything is because THEY ARE SPOILED. just like little kids who are never happy with just one toy. women nowadays can work, go to school, dress up however they want, date whoever they wants, have kids whenever they want. on top of everything the system of justice always sides with them whenever something bad happens such as divorce

again I never attacked any woman that did not deserve it and whether I demonize women or not is none of your concern so stop trying to compel people to think the same way you like you are some perfected human being who is always right and never makes mistakes. till then why don't you go away instead and stop wasting your time writing mytakes preaching to people like your narcissist views are gonna make a difference in people's lives

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
Nobody I spoiled based on gender. And what you describe there isn't being spoiled, it's being a human being with equality. Forcing women to not be able to choose when they want to have children or what to wear is oppression

If you don't want someone to ruin you with divorce, that is your irrational fear and not the fault of all women. Simply choose to not get married and leave women alone

You certainly have been hostile when the hostility isn't warranted. While you are commenting on my thread, it is plenty of my concern what you say and how you say it, so yes it is my concern that you are demonizing me and other women on my post

I don't claim I'm perfect and I make plenty of mistakes. The difference is that I actually accept my own faults in the mistakes I make and correct them so I don't make the same mistake twice

A psychiatrist diagnosed me as not being a narcissist, so your insult is again incorrect and unoriginal. I help people change themselves all the time

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Confusing equity with equality.

Bad credit, losing a home, car, custody, and even a job is more than enough reason to be afraid of divorce and those are all men's issues.

Okay, by that logic I'll fuck hookers instead.

If you don't like people's opinions, then maybe GaG isn't the place for you. Just because you don't like an opinion doesn't mean you get to invalidate others. By that logic your opinion is worthless as well.

Your post was hostile, dismissive and cantankerous. You are the one trying to pick a fight by being passive aggressive.

So you think that because you saw a mental health professional, a profession which infers through observation given by the patient, that you are not a narcissist? You have little understanding of psychotherapy and clinical diagnoses yet present yourself as an expert. That sounds narcissistic to me.

[CasaNorba]

No shit Sherlock!

@Idonthaveausername when did I said I was against equality? I believe both gender are entitled to do whatever they want with their lives just as long as they aren't hurting anyone. but now when one gender has more rights than the other than I do have a problem as I believe this is injustice at its finest.

seriously you must be really mentally challenge if you couldn't figure out by now that we MGTOWs are against marriage either way

till I really don't care what you gotta say from here on now because almost a week now you been sounding like a true broken record. so I'm out now as I do live by this quote for a reason

https://i.imgur.com/waWTUd9.png

yea I know I should of brought it up sooner

[Idonthaveausername]

@Wwwyzzerdd
Being afraid of divorce is your choice and no reason to demonize women

I don't have a problem with opposing viewpoints. I have a problem with bad behavior

You invalidated your own opinion by claiming your incorrect bias as objective facts

My post was honest and encouraged change. I wasn't insulting or picking a fight

No my mother tried to have me diagnosed with a mental illness so she could force me to take medication in an attempt to brainwash me. My doctor said I was not a narcissist among many other things. Nowhere did I claim to be an expert in the field. If that sounds narcissistic to you, then you've never met a real narcissist. My father is one, so I can explain the mentality to you in great detail if your confusion continues to give you these problems

[Idonthaveausername]

@CasaNorba
If you don't care what women do, then stop complaining about them and stop accusing them of doing heinous things they haven't done

I understand what MGTOW is perfectly fine. I've known since the beginning they were against marriage. But again, that's not the discussion of topic here

You're the one arguing here. I simply tried to help people move on from their bitterness and you've decided to attack me for it. I may sound like a broken record, but that's because you're not going to change my views, turn me into someone as bitter as you, or give me a decent insult that is actually correct

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Oh, I'm done with this conversation too. At this point I'm done with the woman-splaining.

[Idonthaveausername]

@Wwwyzzerdd
Lol. I wasn't asking anybody to change my mind

[Lopezz1999]

Ahaha I always try to tell these fools.. they should never generalize a gender based off of annoying stereotypes or past traumatic relationship experiences. Though I'll have to say, this was very well written, and efficient as well. I felt the need to write about this as well, but you've nailed it all. Nice work.

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you. I appreciate the positive feedback from you considering we've had our differences in the past

[Lopezz1999]

I can't discriminate, especially based on views lol. It sucks that everyone that agrees with this mytake are getting downvotes though.

[Hal2002]

Wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head.

One of the hardest relationship lesion I learned than had to accept, was that I had to take responsibility for my actions and not try to blame someone else. As most of the bad things that happened to me, happened because I allowed them to happen. As I would disregard things to keep the peace, instead of questioning things that were not adding up or things that were making me unhappy.

[Idonthaveausername]

Oh thank you so much. It's nice to hear that some people have already learned these lessons and it worked out well for them

The first thing they teach you about in therapy as a child is cause and effect because they want you to understand that nothing is ever one-sided and your actions always have a consequence. Consequences can either be good or bad, but there is a consequence to everything you do or don't do

[AbsolutumDominium98]

Great take. I'm so sick of the MGTOWs and Feminist bitching and complaining and trying to drive a wedge between the 2 genders. They're bitter because they're undesirable to the opposite-gender and they want to bring the rest of us down with them. It's time for Men and Women to transcend the Gender-Propaganda and stand together against those who wish to divide us.

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you so much! I totally agree. This gender war is getting out of hand and it's not helping anybody. I wish people would just get over themselves

[DooMguy]

i3.kym-cdn.com/.../65a.png

The last person who tried to stop division failed miserably (just sayin')

[capturemyheartnow]

Someone writes , "Before I met you , I never knew what it was like to be able to look at someone and smile for no reason. Now you talk to me , make me laugh and say the sweetest things. We were waiting for something extraordinary to happen to us. And now all good things have come our way."

[Idonthaveausername]

Aaaw that's really sweet. Sometimes it does take the right person to make you want to commit and take care of them. You can't be happy with everyone, you have to find the right person

[capturemyheartnow]

One should only be with people that wants to love them and not the people that pretend to do so. Never ignore a person who loves you and cares for you. When someone manipulates you , lies to you , cheats you and treats you badly and makes you feel , it's your fault , dump that person and find someone better. There's always someone better , believe me.

[Idonthaveausername]

I agree with that completely. If you're in a bad relationship, it's your fault for staying and nobody else's

[capturemyheartnow]

You don't find your worth in a man. You have to make yourself worthy to find a man who thinks you are worthy. Women are losing themselves TRYING to be EVERYTHING they think every man wants just to find ONE man. Instead she should try to find that ONE man , who will think she is EVERYTHING. Sometimes needing nothing attracts everything. To find this special man , will take a lot of patience and time and some preparation.

[Idonthaveausername]

That was one of my points. It does take a lot of patience to find the right man. I recently started dating my first boyfriend, but I think he's the right guy for me, so I'm glad I waited so long to bother with dating. The first night we went out, he told me he likes me because I'm "different in a special way."

[capturemyheartnow]

I have heard about this guy. He is a bouncer in a club?

[Idonthaveausername]

Yup, that's him. It took a couple of months before I agreed to go out with him and I laid it out that I wouldn't have anything to do with him if he didn't treat me properly. We see each other a couple times a week and have been together for almost a month now. He's really sweet and bought me cold medicine because I had the flu last week. He says he wants me to meet his family and that he's never brought a girl to meet his family before

[capturemyheartnow]

I just hope you become first time lucky. Were you a virgin before?

[Idonthaveausername]

Yes and what makes you think I'm not anymore? He says he respects me for that because it means I'm not a hoe and he doesn't want to date a hoe. He wants something serious which is perfect for me because I want something serious too

[capturemyheartnow]

So you are a virgin still. This is all I needed to hear. Girls like you are very special. Still there are enough people in USA who prefer to remain as virgins till marriage. And when I hear from people like you , my doubts get settled. Because there are misconceptions floating all around , that people think , there are no more virgins left in USA after a certain age. That's why you are special because you are one among a few minority who have kept the spirit of virginity alive.

[Idonthaveausername]

Thank you. I told him I have to be able to fully trust him and we have to love each other first. Not all girls are sluts, but I know what you mean because all of my friends are sluts and people think I'm some sort of mythical creature when I tell them I'm a virgin, and they start asking me a bunch of questions like I'm some sort of science experiment. Lol. I could never be a slut because I wouldn't be able to sleep with someone I didn't love or who didn't love me. There are still some girls out there who think like me

[capturemyheartnow]

Well there are many virgins around on GAG. I have come across at least 20 virgins on GAG who are above 18 years of age. So they too deserve some praise.

[Idonthaveausername]

I agree I've seen several, but most are complaining about how nobody is interested in then or questioning if it is still normal. I go to a nightclub every weekend, so I know that it really isn't that difficult to lose your virginity if you want to--people have no standards there

I always encourage anyone who prefers to be a virgin until they meet the right person. Most people I know regret the way they lost theirs, so there's no shame in waiting

[capturemyheartnow]

You write well. People might have felt bored by reading your long article and might have given up after reading a few paragraphs. But the few who continued till the end have been much enriched. And now you know who these really patient and serious people are. They deserve a lot of credit for staying with you till the end.

[Idonthaveausername]

Oh thank you for that. I enjoy writing, but I haven't done it for a couple years now because I've been busy with work. Compliments about my writing are greatly appreciated

Such is to be expected. I find myself guilty of skimming MyTakes on here sometimes. But if one or two people really take this to heart, then it's all been worth it

[capturemyheartnow]

Thanks.

[Jager66]

to be fair.. MGTOW isn't a problem with women, it's a problem with government, MGTOW is a rational response to reality.

A lot of MGTOW just bitch about women because it was a woman who used the government to destroy their lives.

[Idonthaveausername]

MGTOW is a problem on GAG when they go around calling virgins inherent prostitutes and calling girls who have never even been on a date gold diggers. This MyTake was a response to an increase in harassment I've received on this site as of late. The government may have a problem with it, but they have bigger problems to deal with

I agree there is far too much bitching

[Jager66]

Well the family is the corner stone of society. If you don't have good social values and social structure then the whole of society will collapse and it will be tyranny and/or the dark ages again.

So I'd say fixing the laws and social policies that are destroying families and the relationships, balance between the genders is kind of a big deal. At least if you enjoy things like electricity, freedom of speech etc..

Just as a sort of related aside. One interesting "solution" to this is actually coming from science though. Artificial wombs are pretty much a thing now, won't be long, and so are 3d printed ovaries that actually make an infertile being fertile and able to have kids + They are developing AI Robots that will pass the uncanny valley test, and they are being developed as sex bots LOL..

So it probably won't be to long until "perfect" "sex bots" who can have and care for your kids will be a thing without a woman being able to ruin your life.. so that is one possible solution.

[Idonthaveausername]

I agree family is the cornerstone of society, but also that society could learn to function properly again without changing the laws (even though they suck). If you change the laws too much, you'll just end up with nobody legally getting married anymore

I follow those advancements in technology fairly closely. (I like the jealousy feature on the sex bots myself, but also think they will permanently hinder social recluses from ever having the hope of a real relationship.) Yes they will soon be capable of extraordinary things, but that won't be affordable for another couple of decades. By the time that rolls around, there will be little hope left if society continues on its current path. In the meantime, these technical advancements will have little affect on dating and relationships in general

[Jager66]

as far as changing the laws all we really need is:
- default joint custody of children that actually gets enforced by the courts.
- a fair cap on alimony.
- a fair cap on child support.
- escrow, requiring receipts, on child support.
- mandatory paternity testing at birth.
- the right to choose for both men and women.
- enforcement of prenuptual agreements.
- Criminally prosecute paternity fraud the same as all other kinds of fraud.
- End no fault divorce.
- prosecute false accusers of rape and domestic abuse.
- gender neutral law enforcement, prosecution and judgments.
- Policy to end predatory lawsuits and strategies in divorce and custody cases.

That is a lot to type but it's really not asking for much, this would go a LOOONG way towards fixing the problems.

Tech is already having a huge effect on relationships, in the form of porn, sex toys, games etc.. The stuff in the future will just be so good no one will date at all.

[Idonthaveausername]

I agree with the majority of that, but highly disagree with default custody. I think it should be up to the children if they want to see both of their parents and for how long and what school they go to. There also shouldn't be default custody for drug addicts

[Jager66]

Yes well you can't/shouldn't put that kind of pressure/responsibility on a child it's cruelty and only encourages parental alienation, which is a big problem that ruins lives. The default needs to be 50/50 join custody that is enforced by the courts if needs be. Tearing apart families destroys lives and has huge negative consequences for society and the long term happiness of the children.

The assumption here is that both parents are good people, not addicts or abusers as that would obviously change things. Also assuming here that 1 parent isn't trying to take the kids to another city or totally uproot their lives in some strongly negative way. For example, it would be MUCH!! more harmful to a child to be separated from a parent, or possibly their siblings, than it would for them to have to attend a different school.

[Idonthaveausername]

Well I completely agree there should be default custody for both parents if they can both be determined to be suitable to raise their children. It's better for children to have split custody than never see one of their parents at all as long as they're good people. Since I came from a family that wasn't suitable, I naturally see the ways bad parents would take advantage of that

I don't mean that it should only be up to the child but that the child should have a say in it if they're old enough to have an opinion. I was 18 months old when my parents divorced, so I wouldn't even have an opinion, but my older siblings who were old enough and did have an opinion were ignored, and I did want to see my father as I got older. None of us were allowed to see our father for 11 years, so it would be nice if the courts would listen to children and not only the lawyers