My Thoughts on the Manchester Terror Attack, and Where This is Taking Us (Page 2)
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Good take. I called the attacks Islamic Terrorism and people jumped down my back but when it comes right down to it they can't deny it because even they know it's the truth.
+ 1 for based TuMeManques
https://youtu.be/TuY46B1UiyQ
But vast majority of Muslims condemn terrorism, all major Islamic organizations in UK condemned it. So why would majority of Muslims be lumped into one, effectively sharing same believes as ISIS. That's part of counter-terrorism strategy as well, differentiate between radical Islam so ISIS and other extremists groups can be isolated.
So how is it fair calling it Islamic terrorism when majority of Muslims condemn it.
@Oram52 because they are doing it in the name of your religion. Until other Muslims become much more vocal and much more active against it you will carry the stain of their actions on your faith. Just saying "oh oh look at all the good muslims and they are so few compared to the whole" isn't going to cut it anymore. I like and respect many Muslims but these acts ARE religiously based (skewed or not) and that's how more and more non Muslims are going to start seeing it as these attacks increase.
All major Muslim organizations in UK immediatly condemned these attacks. Bombers family contacted authorities that he's been radicalized. Muslims helped after the attack, Muslim Taxi drivers were on seen to help the victims. Manchester has decent Muslim minority. So in what way do you seek Muslims to be more vocal?
@Oram52 it needs to be a worldwide voice. And when people speak out and say this is a problem with Islam there needs to be some acknowledgement. Now if you say it's because of that you are racist and called a hate longer. The truth is that the only way to fix this terrorist problem is from within your churches and communities. How do we fix it? What more can be done? I don't have the answers to that but I know that enough is not being done. This is a Muslim problem that needs to primarily be fixed by Muslims. Others cannot and should not come in and dictate what needs to be done in your religion but the fact of the matter is that condemning the attacks after the fact is not enough. It's time for Muslims on a large scale to do more about it. If they don't, it will never stop.
I'm an athiest actually, I don't blieve in fairy tales. More people in UK identify as non-affiliated than Christian. We are no longer in dark ages, same thing is happening in AMerica too where millenials are increasingly abandoning superstition.
That wasn't my point not that I don't disagree with what you're trying to imply. My point was logically and objectively how did you reach Islamic Terrorism, effectively lump all Muslims into one. Wouldn't that imply all Muslims in some way are responsible?
Trumps xenophobic tirades were popular among many of his supporters. KKK and Alt-right supported trump. Clinton called tham basket of deplorables. Trump supporters refused to condemn them. So if all Muslims must pay for the sins of few by that same logic does that mean all Trump supporters are basket of deplorables? Since when do majority pay for sins of the few?
We had the same problem before with IRA, which resulted in many people calling for ban on Irish. Cool heads prevailed then. It was simple why would Irish people as a whole be responsible for IRA? Hence my ame point. Even if we agree with your premise Muslims are not doing enough to condemn terrorism or extremism. In what way whole religion would be responsible for the sins of few? Islamic terrorism applies in some way all Muslims atre responsible. So I am interested to know logically how did you draw that conclusion when overwhemling majority emphatically consemn it and worldwide Muslims themselves are victims of most of terrorism. So how can followers of whole religion be held responsible for sins of few.
@Oram52 I don't think all Muslims should be held accountable but the problem is big enough and it is a problem within the religion enough that people are justified in being cautious and skeptical of Muslims. In my opinion.
The IRA and similar groups had a specific purpose of freedom from a government. I don't defend their tactics but their motives were clear.
For radical Muslims (and there is an increasingly large number of them) their motives is death to infidels. No matter what form that takes. I don't see how that can be compared to people wanting freedom.
@Oram52 If you actually cared about all the terrorism based attacks going on in the name of Islam, why don't you just renounce your Muslim faith?
No one is going to lump you in with Islamic terrorists, if you're not Muslim.
@NoLivesMatter
If you had bothered to read the comments above you might've realized I'm an athiest, was merely 15 when I realized its all BS, so did most of my friends. I've read (rather skimmed through) Bible and Koran. Don't believe people actually believe that shit. 60% of Americans can't even tell what is first chapter of Bible, I''ll save you having to google its Genesis. Might wanna start from Book of Joshua I personally enjoyed reading it, fun stuff.
I was actually curious about her logical reasoning behind 'Islamic Terrorism', as she seemed very passionate in decalaring so. As I also mentioned since when do majority pay for the sins of others. What was factual reasoning behind the use of 'Islamic Terrorism'.
Then why would anyone have to renounce their Islamic faith to make sure they denounce terrorism? What does one got to do with other? If someone is Muslim does that automatically make them a terrorist is that what you're implying?
@Oram52 So why are you defending Islam so much if you aren't Muslim?
@NoLivesMatter I'm a secret Muslim sympethizer. I'm guessing that's the answer you desire.
@Oram52 no I'm
Well I already know where the UK is going to end up if they don't get their act together but in reality they brought this upon themselves when they let all those people in without the adequate security, preparation or really any contingency at all.
And this is just one of a countless amount of terror attacks that happy almost daily or weekly in Europe now. the only reason this one was on the news was because a celebrity was at the site of the attack.
If the UK is gonna burn *shrugs* they're the ones that lit the match and just sat there and watched.
While I agree that Islam is a problem, the idea of discriminating against them or labeling the majority as a problem is the main source of the problem. The extremists are fueled by people like you and it adds to the number of people who join extremists groups.
Studies show that most of Islamic extremists are grown and created in America and the UK. They're not sneaking over, they are created by people having hate towards their religion.
The real problem with Islamiphobia is that everybody is making things worse.
This was a disgusting attack, to be honest i'm done with cucks and sjw's. I will be very surprised if a Muslim DIDN'T do this. ISIS have already claimed it as an attack on the west. That may be false but in either case i'm pretty sure it was another muslim attack.
Now waiting for the prime minister to come out to reassure us that Islam is a religion of peace and that Muslims love the west. Let's be clear, Islam advocates terrorism, not all muslims follow it
I know that @jacquesvol post was unpopular, but I'm glad someone else was willing to say it. It seems like none of us in the "West" want to accept our hand in all of this. We continue to vote in leaders who wage war constantly and being that we're from powerful countries, we wage wars on terms, i. e. we rarely send in troops and we provide weapons and money to the side of our choosing. We sit passively through all of this because our hands never get dirty and it turns war into something that carries the same amount of emotion as when your King's knight takes your opponent's E-pawn.
@jp612612 War by proxy is still war and US drones and cruise missiles killed many.
The destruction of Baghdad's water supply lines was against the Geneva Convention.
The use of white phosphorus and depleted uranium isn't any better than the "Saddam gassed his people" propaganda. (Now repeated against Assad)
Fyi: On March 22, 2016, my city was attacked twice en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Brussels_bombings . My wife escaped one of them by 5 minutes, because she was early. My brother escaped one by hazard, because he decided to take a little walk instead of doing as usual. People who don't even know what it is should think more about victims than about attacking.
You don't want to see this in your country
cf.girlsaskguys.com/.../...5-a9d0-28d2a8e09eb8.jpg
We don't want to see this in our countries
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...57fee14966.jpg
Nor do we want to see this in your country
cf.girlsaskguys.com/.../...2-a897-83c5873807d6.jpg
This has been an ongoing problem for a few years now. Of course we all know that not all Muslim's are bad and out to kill us. But we need to do something more than to just continue to say this over and over again. Yes a lot of Muslim people have had to put up with a lot but we can not continue time after time to ignore the fact that there is a serious problem going on and it needs to be addressed immediately.
While I want to know who did it and why I feel like a lot of people quickly jumped on using this attack as a tool to promote their political views. Instead any initial reaction should be condolences, sympathy and respect for those involved. Your political agenda can wait a little while.
It's waited too long already. People are apathetic, they care more a out how they look and what they own than the welfare of their own living space. We're at war. It's not like the old days when armies marched across a frontier and started attacking the defenders, it's a covert war. Sleepers are being installed all over the west for a political agenda that started at 9/11 and it's being funded by the mutants in world finance who really run the world and tell out governments what's what. They've lulled us into a coma with propaganda and a sense of greed and individualism. People don't give a fuck about people any more they live selfish lives so there's no cohesion, no sense of national identity or well being. We're being duped and anybody who speaks out get batted down with the racism card. It's not racist to want to look after your own is it? I don't think so. A holy war is about to start and it'll make ww2 look like a picnic
Because it's a political matter. ISIS desires Islamic rule world wide.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy and Obama funded it. There is an us against them but it ain't Islam versus Christianity it's the haves against the have nots. The elite use groups like Isis as a proxy for political leverage. First they create the problem, then media blitz it to get us fervently for or against it, then they offer the solution which usually benefits them. Look at 9/11. They wanted to destabilise the middle East for oil and to salvage the petro-dollar so they murdered over 3000 people, then they get us hating the Arabs then they invade and take over. The media is our puppetmaster
@Dale1982: I'm sure it is. I'm not fooled by these devils.
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy wars and terrorist attacks are committed by our own governments to sway foreign policy. They use patsies and proxies to keep their own hands clean in the eyes of the voting public aided by the media for the benefit of their rich pay masters. That's it in a nutshell
@Hispanic-Cool-Guy
I don't really care what you think. I juat think the families effected are kinda getting run over when they need support. There's a separate area for you to post your opinion
People already known who did it, it was sone Muslim guy son
@skykid1992
At the time it wasn't really determined yet. Just speculation.
O ok will I guest pol are dicks then
@skykid1992
What?
Terrorism does exist in many forms. It has its roots in Guerrilla Tactics made famous in Vietnam, and its practicers range from the IRA to ISIS to individuals like Ted Bundy. The problem is that it is the perfect tactic for targeting and breaking modern society. It spreads discontent and mistrust among the enemy, valuable assets for ideological leaders, perfect for breaking apart groups and pitting the against each other, leaving them vulnerable to manipulation.
The hard but undeniable truth is this: even if the concept of Islam was wiped fron the face of this earth, another head in this hydra that is terrorism would grow from another place. Terrorism is the enemy, not any one group of people.
From an ideological point of view, I do disagree with Islam's approach to governance. Islam is a religion of governing people. It's in the very core of the religion. Sharia Law is unlike anything from any other major religion: it is a law meant, from its inception, to be carried out by the government. Islam demands a theocracy.
In this way, it stands diametrically opposed to the US. While Sharia Law tends towards authoritarianism, the US tends towards the opposite: liberalism. I know a minority of practicers of Islam don't believe in Sharia Law, but the majority who do stand directly opposed to the ideals set forth by American liberalism.
The Islamic State already claimed responsibility for it.
There is nothing more I can say what I haven't said about all other terrorist attacks except that I dont understand why so many people are surprised about it.
No, I'm stumped on that one, too.
ISIL has been very, very clear about what it sees as its mission, which is the destruction of western society.
I fail to see why people continue to deny this.
As a Frenchman, I completely agree with you. Muslim culture is, in my opinion, an obsolete religion, not made for our moder society. This culture has no place in our society, adopting it would send us back thousands of years before : very limited liberties and don't get me started on gender equity...
Good take. There's always a price to pay when you strive for utopia.
And it's brave to realise we won't ever reach it.
@BruceJender What does that even mean?
@RolandCuthbert
We all strive for a utopia, and right now, it's almost a crime to think we aren't. Therefore it's brave.
@BruceJender I am just trying to get you to analyze your words. So you can understand what they mean.
If you are not striving for utopia, what are you striving for? And if we are in a society together, what does that mean? Who gets to make the decision for "our" goals?
Do you get to decide that? Do the people who think like you get to decide that?
Or. . . was this about "we"? And "our" decisions?
The biggest problem with this Utopia vision is the idea that:
1. Europe somehow has already almost achieved it, just because they're Europe.
2. All they have to do is make these 7th-century throwbacks enter in, and Europe will automatically, like magic, make them want to be European.
3. This will somehow complete Utopia.
Never mind:
1. The Coptics, Christians, and others with a good work ethic need not apply.
2. The state bullies anyone who points out the lack of concern for vetting.
3. The meaning of the word "refugee" has been hijacked to mean any import, not bothering to check if those being imported actually are seeking refuge.
4. The lack of penalties for non-assimilators, but absolute penalties for local citizens who dare complain about the inconveniences brought on them, and the lack of willingness by the state to compensate for causing said inconvenience.
5. The slander of said complainers by the state...
5. (continued)...
The slander of the state of said complainers, insisting that said complainers only care about their new neighbors because they look different, and surely it can never ever be because said neighbors are hostile and / or displaying criminal tendencies.
2 Thessalonians 2 on European leaders:
"... wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion - so that they will believe the lie, and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."
Given how Sweden has burned, I'd say that describes European leaders to a T.
@ObscuredBeyond We are talking about Europe. Aren't you from the United States? Anyway, in terms of these other nations, why can't they do what they want to do? I thought that is what democracy was about. Of course, I have heard about this weird convoluted conspiracy theory before.
Sufficed to say, there isn't much to debate when one of us doesn't really use factual or rational thinking.
Neither one of us can do much to change people's minds. You talk about assimilation, yet you can't even define what that could possibly be. The thing is, I would agree with you on this point, a nation must decide on what the requirements for being a citizen are. Perhaps in Europe, they should decide on racial or language standards. I cannot speak for them. They speak for them. And I think they have spoken.
I am an American. I only have a voice in this nation.
@ObscuredBeyond Like I said, it is hard to talk with people who are not rational. You quote from the Bible.
The Bible is an awfully big book.
But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.
@RolandCuthbert: Might want to read that passage more carefully.
If the Samaritan acted like modern Europe, he'd tell the wounded man that he "need not apply," and would instead invite the robbers to his own house, no questions asked. And when the robbers beat, raped, and killed his next door neighbor, would tell all his other neighbors "nothing to see here, move along." And would contact the constable on his neighbors if they dared complain about the robbers!
The Samaritan took only the wounded man, after first making sure he wasn't a threat - or bait! He then took the wounded man to a hotel, NOT invited him into his own house!
The Samaritan was incredibly kind, but he wasn't 50 shades of stupid.
@ObscuredBeyond Dude, you are just gone. I posted you one of the signature parables of Christ, yet you twisted it into something grotesque. I am not a perfect person. I strive to be better. I have lost my temper at this site before. I have let people get to me. But I know I have to be better.
Jesus never mentions the Samaritan making sure the man was no threat. He never mentioned inviting robbers into his home. He simply told a story of kindness to a stranger.
I don't know what to do with your conspiracy drivel. I can only say, I can't judge other people who share your culture, by the things you do or say. Otherwise, I would not interact with anyone in life.
Good luck with your philosophy, because you are going to need it.
Am not trying to be a dick or offend anyone. But why can't people fix there own country instead of coming here fucking up ours? I was just telling my girlfriend the same thing you sound. Only i feel like American's worked there ass off to get where we our at today, 100's of brave soldiers died to make our country so great. Yet everyone and I don't mean just Muslim people run too American instead of fixing their own fucking problems.
Are you saying that we should ban all immigrants?
And yes hundreds of thousands of American soldiers died for this country, but you weren't one of them.
You don't get to piggyback off of the sacrifices made by others just because you share the same nationality as them.
@NoLivesMatter lol never even said that, I said why can't they fix their own county? and no I haven't personally died for my country but most of my family has most of my family members are Marines that or navy. So no am not piggyback off anyone sacrifices am a soon to be nurse so i help the world that way. The sad truth of that matter is American can only take so fucking much before out county breaks.
@NoLivesMatter American is starting to get over populated because we keep trying to save everyone. I truly feel bad for immigrants that need our help but we can't keep this up. even more so when we got people coming here killing kids
I'm not saying we should take refugees (I'm personally against it), but I have no problem with legal immigration.
Most if not all legal immigrants have technical skills that are highly valued.
@NoLivesMatter I have no problems with legal or illegal since I most likely would do the same if I had no choice. The only thing I have a problem with is people coming here not following the law or killing innocent people. I mean if we known that 20 people out of 200 were planning on boming us or wanted to see American burn why take the Risk? We can't guest which refugees are out too harm us. a lot of Muslim people blame American for their countys problems and hate so any muslim can turn on us. I have a Muslim friend who I am very close too... when she talked about all the shit our country has done to hers and her he felt I didn't known what to say. She's someone am very close too and i have never seen this girl angery before ever. Her faith in God makes my faith stronger, she's a very happy person normally lol got off topic so easily. Ttyl need to say hi too my friend guest that means I miss her
A factor that makes it difficult for the innocent Muslims is if they started to speak up against the actions in thousands, they'd all be silenced through violence or some other horrific actions by the strong believers who seem to have more power for some reason. I thought religious beliefs were suppose to bring peace when I was smaller, not terrorism, threats, and destruction to prove their points. But too much of something is always never a good thing
"to accommodate an alien and intolerant culture?"
I predict that will garner you some hate.
Oh, I know.
But we've been pissing around, avoiding calling it what it is, for far too long now. Gloves off time.
Agreed. My condolences to your city.
Thanks, it's appreciated
it's a shame that people can't even protect their own countries
Terrorist attacks will continue to get even worse. The UK government and the dumb public will continue to argue that this has nothing to do with Islam and that Islam is a religion of peace. Nothing will change. It will go on and on and on until it's too late.
This is a tragedy. My prayers go out to the families.
But I refuse to label all Muslims/Arabs/whatever as terrorists.
all msulims aren't terrorism but islam supports everything they did do
@G-Daz If you read the Quran in its history and context, you'll understand you're wrong about 'Islam supports everything they did'. Religion and culture is different things. There's no killing people because of just they're not Muslims. After the Ottoman Empire disappeared, Muslims became confused, ignorant and ill unfortunately. We're in our own dark ages now.
@HRFCER actually I own a quran and a hadith. Mohammad was a warlord according to his own words, 500 jews beheaded in one day by himself was his record. He also initiated 67 military campaigned
Of course he did initiated 67 military campaigned because if you want to fight me, I fight you. You should defuse threats to protect your own people. As for some Jews, Ibn Ishak mentioned it. They betrayed Muslims by help the Pagans, breaking the agreement. They were punished pursuant to the Torah which was their book.
You can have a Quran but you're reading it literally and with a modern view. You should try to understand it in its their history (7th century) and context.
@HRFCER I'm not a supporter of Islam, but the Christian God is just as fucked up as Allah.
Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdtV9kbs_fo
Terrorism is a problem
And if you think that MUSLIMS all of them target the west you're dumb coz 99% of the victims of terrorism are Muslims
Why coz isis the Islamic state in "IRAQ " AND IN "LIBYA " are freaking Muslims countries we are the primary target of terrorism they just blow up westerns when they are bored so don't bitch about Islam and Muslims
Anyways it horrific to see such people getting killed for just having fun it was sad af
Did you not read this part?
"For those who think I'm directing this at all Muslims, I'm not. Some are decent people. But I would like to see them being more forward in condemning this."
It's the paragraph just before the end.
Sorry didn't read till the end lol , but I comment for everyone who reads this not really directed towards you , and again apologies
And yet in Muslim countries most of the so called "peaceful" muslims still support the death penalty for adultery or apostasy. I hate your filthy religion.
For some reason you never hear muslims make a stance about this... where are the so called 'good' muslims to make a tribute to such an event when it happens...
Not even one...
I've seen a few videos that theorize that the reason they don't is because in the long term terrorism helps spread islam. Not because of lives lost, but because of its after-effect. When a terror attack happens, they proclaim themselves as the real victims while promoting islam. This results in a spike in interest and conversions. People and governments also become far more adamant in giving muslims/islam far reaching protections as a result, especially with respect to criticism. So while it seems far fetched a theory, it's plausible.
@springocelot Yea I don't doubt it at all... That is exactly what is happening... its not a coincident that islam correlates with christianity but rather it undermines it instead of working with it. Christianity being the most followed religion... why not push that aside and push for ours.. but make it close enough that a lot of people decide to follow it - assuming here
I mean the suspect they gave out is a 22 year old boy that lives in Manchester... the kid is 22 man... it really doesn't take an isis muslim to kill... it simply takes an islam follower to believe enough to want to kill... and it almost always has something to do with the western world... but wait? isn't it suppose to be the same goddam religion?
yea right lol