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#Metoo Movement is Finally Changing the Way People Think (Page 2)
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I had to leave a job I loved because of my boss. When I tried to report her I got blacklisted by the women in HR who assumed a handsome 23 year old male could never be the victim if an obese 45 year old women.
This was the second time I left a job because of sexual harrasment.
After this crap I went MGTOW and actively avoid any contact with women. If I have to meet with one at work I record the meeting. It's against policy but I would rather risk the consequences than deal with a falsehood. Knowing that women will always blame the man no matter what the reality is.
It sure did. I would never talk with a woman anymore, that I don't know at least since 20 years or is a relative. I won't help women, no matter what. I will run away as fast as I can if I see one in the streets on the ground. I will not work for a company that puts women in my workplace. Metoo explained women to me. Thank you Metoo. I think different now.
You mean men finally are thinking of maintaining their decency around women? That's great!
Just wait until this take gets promoted ;)
Lawl hael yeah
I told you. 12 downvotes
So You're ok with men being afraid of you?
@Political_dude of course because they hate the fact that they can't get away with cat calling anymore.
@Malik00 listen there. I have nothing to do with the men who are afraid of me most probably. I have male family members, guy friends, and possibly a future spouse. And I would much prefer that any man outside of them stay away from me anyway. So does it really matter? Of course guys who are afraid of me wouldn't be friends with me or marry me in the first place. Therefore, I have nothing to worry about. It's rather amazing that now men will think twice before catcalling a girl.
Cool now you just won't get anything because men will be too afraid to speak with you lest you cry sexual assault or rape or something.
@Malik00 the fact is, men who are actually decent and have their intentions pure will never be irrationally afraid. At most they will just be alert when they come across a woman and maintain some distance in the beginning. That's the way people the opposite gender should conduct anyway and of course slowly we would get comfortable with one another and get casual later on.
I am not worried about men being afraid of women at all. Why would I?
So you're basically saying its right for a relationship to be played completely by your rules correct? Men have to go out of their way and bend over backwards for the privilege of being in your presence?
I mean if you want a doormat as a boyfriend be my guest.
@CubsterShura That's totally different pov which actually sounds more logical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5-yKhDd64s
@Malik00 why would it be only my rules? Lol you know what, I should stop talking to you right now because you are making a hill out of a mole.
No you just seem like a naive little girl, still expecting her prince charming. I'm just trying to impart a little wisdom do you don't end up disillusioned and then end up committing infidelity on some poor schmuck. But hey you wanna learn the hard way? That's Your problem not mine.
@Malik00 and what exactly is supposed to happen to me?
cf.girlsaskguys.com/.../...b-beda-6a92eeb790b7.jpg
@SinghSong I don't get catcalled and I find it awesome.
Maybe they're too scared of you to do so
@Malik00 No one even knows about the me too movement here lmao.
Has anybody noticed that lesser and lesser bullshit counts as sexual harassment these days? So more and more little snowflakes are suddenly harassed all the time... Also how has the movement changed anything? As if anybody thought it was ok to harass people.
It's not that they thought it was "ok". It's that they do it, with impunity, and protect each other from getting called on the carpet for it. And there still does seem some legitimate confusion as to where to draw the lines, and the people feeling harassed are saying "this is where we draw the line". The people who are not being harassed don't get to decide where that line is.
@MlleCake I think we should not have overly emotional whimps draw the line for everyone... I mean I'm all for calling some heavy stuff out but on the other hand I don't think we should start Manning the torches and pitchforks cause you were looked at kind of funny...
I hate #2... guys are walking on egg shells around me at school
I'm surprised the number of "Does she like me?" posts haven't increased since... oh, wait, it has.
@BruceJender lol I stopped asking Does he like me questions since I don't think it matters. Guys don't even act on it despite me dropping hints. I don't blame em caz I've heard stories from friends about how girls said that the guy was harassing/stalking when he was simply texting/talking to her. And in the past she responded but now acts like he's a creeper. Makes no sense
But it's okay since it's only guys who are being ruined, right? That's the cry of the feminist master class.
@Charleslvajr it's not ok. Some of those men have children that probably experience ridicule because of it
Yup and feminists have never been concerned with who is being ruined in their quest for dominance.
@Charleslvajr eventually they will since they have brothers and fathers too
I'm touched to see you still believe that.
@Charleslvajr are you being sarcastic? 😑
No. I'm being sincere. You still have faith and it is touching to see as the most jaded of us no longer have any hope for them.
@Charleslvajr lol ya I know, sometimes I feel like I'm too optimistic though. I always wanna see the good in people. I see the red flags of people that want to harm me but I still try to be around them... then I get hurt when I kinda saw it coming so I can't even complain 😂😂
Your a good person and an awesome person. If I knew you in person I would definitely keep you as a friend, your inspirational.
@Charleslvajr that's so ironic caz I can't make any new friends to save my life! People at school talk to me but never ask to hang out. They're always busy.
Thank you for your kind words, I'll keep being me. If it's meant to be I'll make new friends
Personally I think it promotes the celebration of victim hood. It certainly has changed how I intereact with women both coworkers and clients. For me there is no more unnecessary talk, strictly business. Never be anywhere alone with a female. Example: never be in a office or conference room or elevator alone with a female.
I have no problem with you changing your behavior at work if you think you might accidentally harass women. But this isn't in any way a celebration of victimhood, or of victims.
You would never know that by being here.
Though I am convinced that the very worst of humanity and/or America frequents this website with only the occasional smattering of normal people.
Glad I'm not American
Same. That’s the constant refrain in my head: “I’m glad I’m not American.”
And yet, so many girls I've spoken to seem surprised that no man who likes them dares to even speak to them... With all this outrage about the smallest insignificant thing being seen as sexual assault (attempted kissing, for example) - which, by the way, makes it a lot harder for ACTUAL assault victims which ACTUAL trauma to be taken seriously - it's understandable that men are worried about how they might be perceived.
Except we've been telling men for decades how we want to be approached and spoken to, and how the actions of some of you make it hard to feel entirely secure around a lot of you. The solution to the gendered aspect of sexual harassment, men need to police each other, teach each other. We need to ask our media to show what consent culture really looks like, so it doesn't seem so hard to navigate.
And there are still other forms of sexual harassment and abuse that are not male to female that have other different ways they need to be addressed.
@MlleCake I agree with that to a certain extent. For example, if you had to nag a girl and annoy her into having sex with you, then that can no be seen as entirely consensual if she eventually agrees with you just to get you off her back. However, from a legal perspective, it is still consensual and must be treated as such. In those cases, I think it's very important that we teach people - both men and women - how to properly approach someone sexually. Also, very few sexual experiences actually start with a verbal "yes" being expressed. Most of the time, people just show that they're into it through body language and by being engaged in the act. That can often be a very gray area, since it could TECHNICALLY be possible to accuse someone of rape even if you were completely into it, just because no one actually specifically asked "Do you want to have sex?" The problem with rape and sexual harassment is often what actually DEFINES as such from a legal and juridical perspective.
Let me ask you one simple question. Separate this from all other aspects of the debate.
Do the victims get to define how they were victimized, or do people who were not victimized get to define it? If you are mugged and beaten up, do YOU get to define the experience or does someone else get to?
@MlleCake None of them. The court decides.
The courts are by the people for the people, and they will follow the will of the people. Should it be our will that we only let some victims of crimes define their experiences, but not other victims of other crimes? When does the voice of the person who was harmed get to be the most important voice? When have they earned the right to be listened to?
I'm not even talking about the aspect of the penal system involvement. I'm really just asking a philosophical question.
Why is it ok to keep telling women they were overreacting when we keep asking not to be treated in certain ways? It's not like people are forced to treat women in a certain way, and that's chiseled in stone. people can learn how women really want to be treated in the world and adjust so that the world is comfortable and agreeable to more people who live in it.
@MlleCake Well, first of all, people are different. What one woman find uncomfortable, another woman might find charming.
But I get what you're asking. Well, first of all, we need to acknowledge the fact that - when it comes to the MeToo-movement - a lot of it has to do with attention seeking and just jumping onboard a current trend. I know that it's a very controversial thing to say, but it's a fact. There are plenty of actors who were accused who were then later revealed to be innocent, just like the UVA case back in 2012. The sad thing about this is that this makes people LESS likely to believe ACTUAL victims and take their stories seriously. What we need to do is acknowledge all the false accusations and find a way to deal with that - and obviously make the punishment for false accusations a lot harder - and start educating people on how to notice if a person (man or woman) is not comfortable in a situation, since many times they don't have the courage to say so themselves.
#metoo is not primarily a Hollywood movement. It's primarily among average women and men, and has been a movement for many years. This Hollywood moment it is experiencing shouldn't be mistaken for the whole of the movement. In fact, don't worry about them at all. Think about the people who are in your daily life. We are the heart of this movement. And we're telling the truth. We simply are. Most of us are not naming names. We're just saying "yes, it happened".
And, false allegations do happen, but they are, by every modern study, exceedingly rare. (2-8% is about the range). There is a time and a place to discuss them, and work on the reasons why they happen. But in the popular media, there are people who falsely report and inflate these figures on purpose to discredit women, and that has nothing to do with how many actual false claims there are. They have a vested interest in snowing you, and you have to wonder what it is...
So, men, all people, have to look at things as they really are. It's not men vs. women, Hollywood showing off, Hollywood engaging in rightful activism, any of that - don't let it distract you.
Let us tell you about our experiences, and explain why they felt inappropriate, and then let us look at these things together to determine how the world can become a happier place for everyone. No one wants to see anyone falsely persecuted ever. It is sometimes down to a matter of opinion, and we won't always agree. But if we start accepting and reinforcing good habits in getting consent, believing people when it is happening (we are more often doubted than believed, still), making it possible for people to make healthy sexual choices through attitudinal changes in society... it's going to help everyone.
@MlleCake
"We need to ask our media to show what consent culture really looks like, so it doesn't seem so hard to navigate."
What does it look like to you then?
I can't even talk to women aside from work. I can't even make eye contact. This isn't recent, it started when I was 11 and read an article about harassment. What do men like me do when they see these articles and videos pop up on most viral on Youtube or most social media?
I already hate myself. I literally bash my head on the wall and the desk. I really really want to kill myself. Would that satisfy you feminists?
Also, why aren't women taught to approach men. You think a smile and eye contact is enough of a signal? I see it and lower my gaze and move away as fast as possible.
What are men like me supposed to do? If my religion wasn't against it, I would have killed myself long ago.
@shephardjhon Honestly, when you respect women, and respect our bodily autonomy, you just talk to us like people, like equals. If you see us as this weird other thing, as unreasonable, as likely to attack even the slightest glance, that's not realistic, and it's not what feminists have asked of you.
And you have to remember, feminists did not cause this problem. People who continue to abuse women with impunity made this happen. We get warier and want men to stay further away the more we are abused. Not because mean feminists made up some arbitrary rules.
How do men normally go about courting where you live? How do people meet and get married? What are the traditions? DM me, we can talk about it more. I'll try to clarify anything I can.
@MlleCake "Feminism didn't cause this problem. People who continue to abuse women with impunity made this happen." It's both, actually. Abusers caused this to be an issue in the first place, but then feminism has made it seem like a much broader issue than it is. Like the whole "1 in 4 girls in college" statistics or even the bullshit "only 8 % of rape accusations are false" which you even mentioned yourself. Those are scewed and misinterpreted statistics which feminists use to further push their agenda. Out of 100 rape accusations, 8 of them will statistically be PROVED false. But keep in mind that it's almost the exact same number for rape accusations proven to be accurate. We simply don't know exactly how many rape cases are false accusations because rape is by its very nature extremely hard to prove. But we CAN assume that it's much more than 8 % since a proportion of the unknown cases also has to be false. We just can't know what the exact number is.
Except no one has done any better studies to disprove the 2-8% figures. There was a new study done in Australia that pegs it at about 10.5% but the final report hasn't been released yet. Feminists are not trying to get men to value consent just for the fuck of it, to make your life harder.
Women get put-upon.
A lot of us.
I don't think I know a single woman who have NEVER been sexually harassed in some way. It's just the fact that it's very common. We can quibble over "how common", but repeating the rhetoric of harassment/abuse/rape apologists doesn't get you any closer to understanding theproblem. You say men are afraid to even approach women innocently now - if you want that not to be such a problem, you can certainly listen to us about how we feel about our own experiences so you can avoid what abusive people have done to us before.
@MlleCake You might not know any women personally who have never been assaulted, but personally - despite having more female friends than male friends - I know more men who have been assaulted than women, but the court do nothing about it. But when a woman have been assaulted, literally nothing is taken more seriously. And I'm not complaining about the fact that rape is seen as one of the most serious crimes one can commit, because it IS one of the most horrible things you can do to someone, but it's ONLY seen as serious if it's a woman, no matter if the man is guilty or not. Even if he's proven innocent, he will always be guilty in the eyes of society. And my point wasn't not debunk the statistics, but to explain why it's faulty. We can DEFINITELY assume that more than 8 % of rape accusations are false, since out of 100 rape allegations, only 8 will be PROVEN to be false. But that doesn't take into account all of the false accusations where no evidence was found at all.
@MlleCake by the way, before this discussion continues, I just need to point out that probably not everything that I will be saying will be my own opinions or views on the matter. Whenever I'm in an argument - even if I agree with my opponent's standpoint - I will try to argue against their side as much as possible just for the sake of debate. I want to hear as many viewpoints as possible, from as many sides as possible.
First of all, I said harassed, not assaulted. I was speaking specifically of harassment in that statement.
That said, I am well aware that men are assaulted too, that it is under-reported, and carries it's own set of problems when it is reported. You and I were specifically discussing women, but that doesn't mean I don't think men and boys get assaulted. That actually matters a great deal to me. For one thing, it makes us look at larger issues of consent, and what everyone needs to know about it. No one deserves to be harassed or assaulted, and I think it is just as terrible when it happens to men. I think it will help men a lot when we break down some of our rigid gender expectations that make it harder for them to talk about these kinds of things. I want men to be vocal, and women who have created support networks for victims are very happy to share expertise as men work to create victim resources that address their specific needs.
@MlleCake Oh, I never suspected that you don't care about men who have been sexually harassed, I was just responding to the comment you made about not knowing any women who have not been harassed, my point was simply to illustrate how things look very different depending on your social circle and - of course - where you are from. Women in the ghettos obviously have it A LOT more difficult than women in urban areas, but that's a different question.
And I definitely think that we need more proper discussion on how to recognize consent. Like I said before, most sexual acts start with no verbal consent being expressed, you just show that you want to have sex by being passionate during the act. Therefore, what I think is important is to teach people, men and women, how to take care of themselves and others in any kind of sexual scenario. For example, blackmailing someone into sleeping with you, while consent might TECHNICALLY be given, it should not be seen as properly consensual sex.
We still have men arguing they don't need to seek consent. That saying no once is not good enough. That we don't have the right to say no if we've said yes before, and all such things. Yet people wonder why we still need feminism?
@MlleCake I was with you until the last sentence. This is not a feminist issue because it's not a GENDERED issue. It's something that affects everyone equally, the only reason we think it's affecting women more is because we TALK about it more. And why do we talk about it more? Because of feminism!
Now, I'm not an anti-feminist in any way, there are many feminists I really respect (Christina Hoff Sommers, for example), and I would really love it if feminism as a movement could get more respect than it does, but in order for that to happen, feminists must adress the huge problems it has within its movement. Before you do that, people are not going to respect you. People don't dislike feminism because they're misinformed or sexist, they dislike feminism because there ARE a lot of problems within the movement, which the "good" feminists never talk about or simply pretend to not exist.
Food for thought: www.vox.com/2015/6/1/8687479/lie-rape-statistics
The thing is, a lot of people tell me what feminists are doing or not doing when they have very little contact with feminist activists, feminist thought, or familiarity with what things feminists are actually doing. No one is denying men get assaulted. We don't know if it's more or less, or if it's the same. It actually doesn't matter if it's more, or less, or the same - its enough to be concerned with. Men don't have to justify how common it is to deserve to be believed. Nor should women.
Sexual harassment/assault is not all one thing. In the case of male to female abuse, much of it is gender-based. In the case of male to male abuse, and male to trans abuse, it can still be based on patriarchal gender norms that just happen to be very hurtful to men as well. In the case of female abusers - well, that's kind of a new area for all of us because we are just beginning to understand how much it happens, and I won't claim to be an expert on it. If you know more, please, let me know.
@MlleCake I read that article over two years ago.
"None is denying men get assaulted". Do you even know your own movement? There are PLENTY of feminists who claim that men cannot get sexually assaulted. There are also a lot of feminists who admit that men get assaulted but that it's not such a big issue in comparison.
Also, the west has no "patriarchal gender norms". First of all, gender norms are (to a large extent) the result of our biology and the only reason parts of it have been damaging to society is because of the way it has been treated. Femininity has historically been seen as less valuable, and since women are biologically more feminine, that led to women being seen as less valuable.
There are currently no legal rights men have which women don't, but there are actually plenty of rights women have that men don't. And here in Sweden - because of the legal definition of rape - it's impossible for a woman to even be accused of rape. And why do we have that law? Feminism!
Yes, reform of rape and sexual harassment and assault laws has been brought about by feminist action, but many of them were made at a time when men still weren't speaking up about their own experiences. Women didn't keep you from speaking up. Feminism didn't keep you from speaking up. It took feminism and a changing dialogue about gender and sexual abuse to make it possible for men to speak-up more comfortably. We do have some biological gender traits, but not all gender norms are dictated by biology. There are all kinds of social and cultural influences on what we perceive as gender norms. To say otherwise is purely asinine.
I won't speak to equality in Sweden as it's not my area of experience. But in the US we have active campaigns to take away constitutional protections for women and erosion of human rights, and women simply do not yet have equal status in society here yet.
@MlleCake "Women didn't keep you from speaking up". Correct! "Feminism didn't keep you from speaking up". Not in the beginning, no, but there are still many feminists who completely dismiss male victims of any kind.
"We do have some biological gender traits, but not all gender norms are dictated by biology." Yeah, obviously, both social and biological factors come into play, but men and women do not behave differently because of societal expectations, it's the other way around. Those expectations and norms exist because we behaved differently to begin with.
I think we both agree on the core issue, but I think what differs is the way we think it should be dealth with. I don't think feminism has the answer, considering how much problem it has caused lately in the west. Either feminism needs to be reformed as a movement, which can only happen if feminists actually acknowledged the threat third-wave feminists cause, or - which would be preferable - we need to stop caring about labels.
No, I don't think feminism has the answer. Men have the power and capital to create resources they need, to create shelters and influence rape laws to recognize the unique experiences of male assault victims. You will find many feminists who entirely back that. We will share our experiences with you inasmuch as it is helpful, but I agree, this is activism that has to be focused on men and men's needs when they are victimized, and men are the best to define those things. The thing that a lot of people don't seem to understand about Feminists is we're also mothers to sons, we love our husbands and our male partners, we have brothers that matter to us - we don't want to see their lives be made terrible. We don't see this as a zero-sum game where men must lose for women to win. This world has enough resources for everyone to have well-being.
The feminism and the feminists you talk about are just so different from who I see in my own life.
@MlleCake Well, where do you live? Because here in Sweden, the way to recognize a true feminist is that he/she will say the most hateful, disgusting and judgmental things about "men" (as in, not just SOME men) and then she will turn around and say, "Oh, feminism isn't about hating men. I don't hate men."
It is just another tool for spoiled first world women to feel like they are advancing in the oppression Olympics.
Fuck that hashtag. If they actually cared about women than they would campaign in the Middle East.
The losers are all the women who actually don't mind having their but squeezed occasionally. But #metoo is invaluable as a tool for putting a guy away when the only evidence otherwise would be he-said/she-said.
It's basically going to make it so that girls have to ask the guys out... so they aren't charged with sexual harassment.
Do you think that guys will find that attractive? If so, has the social contracts between men and women changed that much?
@youtoo not really but when you can be charged with sexual harassment for asking a woman out, it does prevent a lot.
@youtoo I only date women that ask men out. Girls are so bad at flirting/giving signals that it's impossible if a girl wants sex or is just a friend. It aggravates me enough that I move on and don't bother with those girls. If she's that bad at getting across that she's interested it will be like that with everything else in the relationship.
@NJ_Casanova Yeah, I can see why. Any tips for women on how to flirt with a guy and send the right signals without coming off like a pushy heaux?
@youtoo Flirting... Do you mean like hitting on a stranger? Or flirting with I guy you already know/talk to as friends?
Nothing that specific, just some general tips that separate the annoying from the attractive
@youtoo If you are playing Eye tag (he looks at you when you look away and VIce versa) then you should send him a drink or go up to him and say high if you are out at a club, etc.
If you are really shy, you could always have your friend ask him or one of his friends what he thinks.
@NJ_Casanova thanks! :)
I respect, I think it's good, but I also think it's encouraging certain women to make false accusations to get some of the limelight.
In the UK, over the last month or so, there have been 3-4 instances where a man had spent several months in jail or in limbo between arrest and a jail sentence, even though the prosecution were sitting on mountains of evidence to prove his innocence. I want something to be done about that, but sadly, I don't think anything will.
#metoo was actually started by a black woman.
www.cnn.com/.../index.html
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I don't respect the hashtag..
NVM What I said.. LOL..
No it's not it's just virtue signalling from Hollywood.
Sorry. I still don't buy that getting drunkenly groped at a party 35 years is that big a deal. If that's all you have to be traumatized about, you have it pretty easy. If you call yourself a survivor and base your entire identity around it, that's even more pathetic. Harsh words I know. But true.
I like our right-wing patriot version of #metoo better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB8uhcOxofMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QJ3wYi_Fug#120db
1) Only if they are real and did really happen, otherwise it is false accusations.
2) What? I'm not afraid of any women, only if they are hidden feminazis and then it is no real fear of them.
3) It never ever changed one bit in me. Just I make my own thoughts about it, like #metoo is being abused as a weapon to "nuke a random male".
Huh. It's been more that a year of writing this take. I don't even remember the motive.
How did you find it?
I searched for #metoo and went through them.
Yeah, basically another misused term milked by feminists and SJWs who aren't actual victims, all of that contributing to the destruction of relations between men and women.
Which of us do you want to call a liar? Me? You want to tell me my lived experiences aren't real?
@MlleCake Some feminists and SJWs call a simple flirt attempt sexual harassment, which is wrong. Doing so only hides real victims of harassment in the mass of false accusation.
Plus, accusating some men of serious things like rape of sexual harassment for nothing will only scare men. men won't want to try to flirt with someone if they know they can go to jail because of a mere psycho who accused them of rape or seual harassment.
It is definitely changing the dating landscape, but not for the better. Men should not be afraid to approach women.
Henry Cavill once said that feminists (and, if I remember it correctly, #MeToo) made him afraid to interact with women, or something like that; I heard that feminists shouted him down. Interesting...
Hey. It's been more than a year since I posted this. What brings you here?