Rape Culture Does Exist

[Anonymous]

This myTake is a response to this myTake, which took an ignorant approach because it failed to describe what rape culture is and it provided a lot of logical fallacies and some false statements about reality. In fact, the myTake is the exact product of rape culture because of the way it trivialized sexual assault and abuse of American citizens.

It's very obvious how most societies are more focused on telling people to not get raped instead of teaching people about what rape/consent is. This attitude/behavior of society does try to normalize rape within society.

What is rape?

It's sexual act where there is no mutual consent. Rape isn't just about sex. It's also about controlling and overpowering the victim.

What is corrective rape?

A hate crime in which one or more people are raped because of their perceived sexual orientation or gender identity. The common intended consequence of the rape, as seen by the perpetrator, is to turn the person heterosexual or to enforce conformity with gender stereotypes. There has been a lot of talk about how corrective rape is prevalent in South Africa. But it happens all over the world.

What's rape culture?

If you're going to describe how rape culture doesn't exist, at least look up the original definition of rape culture first and then tell us how "it doesn't exist." It's a sociological term/concept that describes a phenomenon that happens within a society... Rape culture is "a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes [and behaviors] have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse" (Dictionary.com). Almost every society does have a rape culture. Yes, including western countries such as the United States of America.

It's a whole cycle

What rape culture isn't about?

It's not about whether or not it's illegal in the society or environment. Sexual predators don't always get arrested or jail time. There are still plenty of sick-minded people who consciously support rape culture. But there is a big percentage of people of people subconsciously support rape culture, even though they claim to despise rape.

Who does rape culture victimize?

It victimizes all victims of sexual assault and abuse. It doesn't matter what their gender and sexuality is. Anyone can be raped

What are some examples of rape culture?

1. Calling victims attention seekers when they announce their experience

2. Victim blaming

3. Gaslighting victims and calling them liars when they are telling the truth

4. Assuming that men can't get raped or sexually assaulted and if he gets raped then he "deserved" because he's weak

5. Assuming that a straight man is gay if he complains about getting sexually assaulted or abused by a woman and that he should feel "lucky," even though he wasn't in the mood to have sex or he's not attracted to the particular woman who raped him

6. Assuming a gay/bi man can't get raped by a man because he's attracted to men and he must've enjoyed it, even though he wasn't in the mood to have sex or he's not attracted to the particular man who raped him

7. Assuming that sexual assault victims aren't really victims because they didn't actually get raped

8. Assuming that a man is not a "real man" if he doesn't try to convince another person to have sex with him after the other person said no

9. Assuming that men always want sex, so they can't get raped

10. Believing that teenage boys should be forgiven for committing assault and rape because they were "just being boys" and "made a mistake"

11. Assuming that it's impossible for women to be sexual predators

12. Assuming that unattractive people can't be victims of sexual abuse and assault

^ You see how all these behaviors and attitudes trivialize and normalize sexual abuse and assault? You see how it doesn't just affect women? ^

All these "little" things also give rise to rape and sexual assault...

[DinaM]

Thanks for the take.

I think people who say "rape culture don't exist" are just having the traditional knee-jerk reaction to the word "rape." When told they live in a "rape culture," what they hear is "you live in a culture where rape is accepted and tolerated, and that means YOU accept and tolerate rape." And they understandably take it as a personal attack and get angry. I mean, obviously nobody (outside of some rather screwed-up individuals) LIKES or CONDONES rape.

Well, who knows, maybe there are SOME cartoonishly evil people out there who go around thinking how they love rape and do nothing but rape rape rape all day long... but I REALLY doubt there are all that many of them.

But, I know (and I know this because I have talked to a number of them) there are plenty of people who will EXCUSE rape in certain situations, by claiming it wasn't rape, or that the victim was really to blame because "if she didn't want to get raped, why did she go to a party with guys in the first place?" Or they insist that what happened wasn't ACTUALLY rape at all because "obviously she really wanted it, but now she's lying because she doesn't want to admit what a fucking slut she is," or even that "she's just lying and tells everyone he raped her cause she's an evil bitch who wants revenge against a guy whom she irrationally hates" ... or, if the victim is male, the old classic "men can't be raped" or "what sort of MAN can't fight off a GIRL?"

And that, to me, is rape culture. It's the blaming of, and casting suspicion towards, the victim rather than the perpetrator. It's the constant arguing that "you can't look at a woman without being accused of raping her" or the "it's only rape/sexual assault if it's done by an ugly guy, cause clearly all women want it if the guy is rich and handsome," and that claiming otherwise is all part of some "feminist agenda" to hurt men. It's when hundreds of otherwise normal people are told about a rape and their immediate reaction is to immediately say that "this wasn't rape."

I know I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this comment. Likely I'll be accused of "wanting to castrate guys just on the say-so on random women who are probably lying."

But I don't think this is a black-and-white thing. It's possible to believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and yet NOT immediately cry "liar, liar" as the first reaction whenever a rape accusation happens.

Thanks for your attention.

[counterpoint]

By this definition, all cultures are rape cultures, violent cultures, ignorant cultures etc..

When it goes for any and all cultures, then the word make no sense. It's no different than saying we are all sinners, it's pointless remark.

[DinaM]

No, it's not. Just because victim blaming, intolerance and spewing of hateful bile happens in all cultures, doesn't mean it's okay to do any of these things. The word "rape culture" points out how cultural norms make it easier for people to blame the victim, or argue that the rape wasn't a "real" rape, and so forth. Which are genuine problems that any society should address.

No culture is perfect, and no culture is ever going to BE perfect. Does that mean we should stop trying to improve ourselves?

[counterpoint]

Yes, stop using words like "rape culture" you might as well use words like "pollution culture", "injustice culture", "feminist culture", "racist culture", "consumer culture" and so on and on and on.

Quite pointless and counter productive, sine only feminists like the word and see it the way you defines it, then you will either get an echochamber or incite resentment if it's non feminists.

It's not productive to use a words in a way only a minority understand the same way, and is divisive. Far better to make a dialogue where the words used won't be divisive at all.

[DinaM]

The reason why the term "rape culture" has seen such widespread use is because it's such an effective shorthand for a lot of difficult issues in sexual assault and sexual violence. For that reason, the term has become a call to arms. It is the dragon to be slayed, to address all the issues that it represents. Hence, supporters claim, we must acknowledge the dragon.

But, never let it be said that I wasn't willing to listen to other people's ideas in order to improve. So, question: What term do you suggest we use instead? Is there any term that as clearly and consistently would convey the nature of the problem, without dangerously offending people?

[counterpoint]

Qualify the wordings so all can agree and feel engaged rather than alienated.

This mean stop using politicised words like:
rape culture - imply a culture supporting rape
Totix masculinity - imply masculinity is totix
Feminism - imply only women's rights is an issues
Man planing = imply only men does this, or word all men does it

By using more accurate and qualified words, we might actually agree and could work together.

Just examples for non provocative alternatives:
rape culture - consensual culture
Totix masculinity - Imposed masculinity
Feminism - Humanism
Manplanning = Condescending teaching

[DinaM]

Hmm... Couple of counterpoints (heh) here.

"Consensual culture" doesn't point out that there's a problem -- quite the contrary; it implies a culture where consent is the norm and there's no problems with rape at all. If you try to tell people "we live in a consensual culture!" they'll just go "oh, that's nice" and think you're praising the culture. So that's not really a very good term.

As for your other suggestions for replacement terms... Problem is that none of them really describes the actual thing. "Imposed masculinity" and "condescending teaching" come close, but aren't quite there. (I will say, I don't like the term "mansplaining" and never use it.)

"Humanism," however, is something different from feminism altogether. The humanist movement, which started back in the Renaissance, is actually about emphasizing the importance and value in human reason, and how humans don't need gods to get by. It has nothing do do with equal rights.

[counterpoint]

"Consensual culture" implies the wish for a consensual culture, where consent is the norm and there's no problems with rape at all.
As culture we don't have a problems rape as it is, since our culture doesn't allowed nor condone rape. This is why rape culture is misleading, it implies a fallacy.

We don’t have a rape culture, but we do have rape crimes, just like we have murder crimes without being a murder culture.

The problem with politicized words are they DON’T describes the actual thing eather, this is why you need to explain what you really mean by the words. They are non describe of the reality, and only works in the minds of those believing in it – in this case feminists.

I know humanism is actually use for something else, but feminism is not gender neutral, so you can use the term egalitarianism instead. The point is, use a inclusive and gender neutral word, otherwise men are alienated by the word itself.

[DinaM]

Sorry, but if "consensual culture" implies a wish for how things are, then it's not much use as a descriptive word. you might say you WISH for a consensual culture, but you can't say you LIVE in one. At least not truthfully.

No, our culture does not CONDONE rape, but depressingly often it EXCUSES rape, by saying that "no, we hate rape, but THIS wasn't rape, and THIS wasn't rape, no matter what the victim says." Unless you're being held at gunpoint or forced into a dark alleyway or something, a lot of people seem to think it doesn't count as rape.

Victims are blamed for being raped, told that they "asked for it" by not guarding their drinks enough, or being at the wrong place at the wrong time. And men who get raped by women get it even worse; they're ridiculed and told "men can't get raped" because any REAL man just wants to fuck all the time.

And that's rape culture. Sounds offensive, but really I have yet to hear a better word for it.

[DinaM]

As for feminism... I disagree.

I do think that feminism's bad rap is largely undeserved -- you know, the idea of the typical feminist as a sour-faced, man-hating bitch who insists that "men are pigs" and advocates castrating all men or at least constantly shaming them for not being women... there aren't actually that many of them. Not that they don't exist, mind... There are women who use feminism mainly as an excuse to spew hatred, and there are women who get so caught up in their own "I'm a victim" mentality that they lash out at anyone with a Y chromosome.

But on the whole, feminism isn't anti-men. However, and this is the main part: Though the "equality for all" is definitely part of modern feminism... Feminism is at its core about women. It's about women's issues, women's struggles for rights and equality. A lot of the goals ALSO are about things that would and will benefit men just as much... but getting down to it, feminism isn't really about men.

[counterpoint]

Then men shoun't be feminists at it's core. Nor will moral women be feminists. Moral people care about all humans, not just adults, or women or any single race etc., but all of mankind.

You won't get support from most men and a lot of women while using the word feminism and while continuing the ideology feminism represents.

[counterpoint]

We do live in a consensual culture, our culture does not EXCUSES rape, by saying that "no, we hate rape, but THIS wasn't rape, and THIS wasn't rape, no matter what the victim says.". We do however, have a truthful definition of rape that is not at bread as many feminists wishes it to be.
Completely different issue.

Rape is sexual acts forced by violence or threats of violence.

Yes a woman have to actually make her refusal know, to convict someone for rape. she also have to be in a position to be able to refuse, hence drug rape is also rape.

Victims are not blamed for being raped by the majority. And the few who does, do not represent our culture.

WE DO NOT LIVE IN A RAPE CULTURE in any western country I know of.

[DinaM]

I think it has to be possible to accept that something or someone isn't actually about you, without immediately deciding that said something or someone is against you. And yet that seems to be a problem a lot of people have.

And I think a lot of men have a problem accepting that feminism isn't about them. It's a lot easier for them to believe that feminism is about hating men, about dominating men, about women's superiority over men... because that would mean that feminism was about men anyway. These men would rather be seen as the enemy than accept that they're not the primary concern.

And insisting to replace the word "feminism" with something more gender-neutral is sort of missing the point of what feminism is about.

[DinaM]

Your insistence that moral women shouldn't be feminists presumes that a feminist can ONLY care about women's rights and nothing else, and that being part of a group that focuses on women's rights somehow means you can't think about men's rights. Which is nonsense. A lot of feminists also care deeply about the plights of men... some of which ARE directly tied to feminist issues.

But saying that feminists are immoral for primarily focusing on women when men have problems too, is the same as saying that doctors are immoral for primarily focusing on sick people when healthy people have problems too. Nobody's saying that men doesn't have problems, but a feminist forum isn't the place to focus on men's problems.

You can be a feminist AND a humanist. You can fight for women's rights AND try to help going against racism. One thing does not exclude the other.

[DinaM]

And YES, our culture excuses rape far too often. Saying that it doesn't just shows that you're not actually paying attention.

Your definition of rape is lacking. Per legal definition, rape does not have to include violence or threats of violence. It CAN, yes, but it's still rape if it's done by coercion, abuse of authority, or against a person who is incapable of giving valid consent (such as one who is unconscious, incapacitated, has an intellectual disability or is below the legal age of consent).

It's still rape if you "thought she wanted it" or if you just got your way with the victim through blackmail. Or if you happened to be the victims boss and said "fuck me or your fired" -- there wouldn't have been violence involved but it would still have been rape.

[counterpoint]

We know feminism isn't about us. I we dislike feminism because it is about hating men, about dominating men, about women's superiority over men.
This is show when reading feminists literature, seeing the legislation proposed by feminists and their argument in debates.

We don't insisting on replace the word "feminism" with something more gender-neutral, we do however insists on gender-neutral ideology and policies in order to support it.

[counterpoint]

You can't focus on all thing a once, I get that. Hence focus on women's issues means we as men, can't support you because we need to support someone else doing something for all of us and not just women instead.

You now lost all support from all but the stupidest men, as well as all sensible women who actually seeks gender equality.

[counterpoint]

No culture excuses rape. Saying it does is based on ideology rather than actually facts.
Individuals may excuse rape, but the majority don't and the majority constitutes the culture.

My definition of rape, is the legal definition in my country. Your definition of rape not rape, various kinds of sexual assault.

No coercion is not rape. Abuse of authority is not rape.

It is rape however if the person is incapable of giving valid consent (such as one who is unconscious, incapacitated, has an intellectual disability or is below the legal age of consent).

It's not rape she don't make is planing know she didn't wanted it.

And blackmail although illegal is not rape either.

It not rape if the boss say "fuck me or your fired", it may be illegal but it isen't rape.

Rape is a legal term, and although defined differently in diffident countries, still always contain the element of forced sexual contact.

This is also the case in the US, so you need to study the law a bit more.

[DinaM]

In my experience, it's the stupidest men who are against feminism. ^_^ Perhaps because the men who are actually smart have the self-insight to realize that not everything has to be about them, and it's possible to support a cause even if you're not the main focus of it.

It's easy to be against unfair treatment when you're the one being treated unfairly. But being against unfair treatment of others, when you're not involved, or when that unfair treatment might even benefit you in some way? That's harder. That's when it's far easier to make up excuses and insist that the unfairness doesn't exist.

I try to avoid this. I have spoken for men's rights, even though I'm not a man. I've supported same-sex marriage even though I'm not planning on marrying. I'm anti-racist even though as a white person I'm not the victim of racism. Should I ignore these things just because I'm not the victim? Or should I support them, and in addition be a feminist? The answer's quite clear, at least to me.

[DinaM]

All right, if no culture excuses rape, why do I constantly see excuses for it? "She was asking for it/sending out the wrong signals." "Men can't be raped." "She's overreacting, it wasn't that bad." What are these if not excuses?

I will admit I'm not a law student, but I have read various legal texts about what constitutes rape. And while laws do vary between countries, it's actually very common for the law to define a case as rape even though violence or threats of such have not been made. The is the most common form of rape, and is known as "forcible rape," but it's not the only form. There's a reason why things like "date rape" and "statutory rape" are still named as rape.

But I think you're getting unnecessarily worked up about definitions of the word "rape." If it helps, I can change it to "sexual assault." Granted, "sexual assault culture" doesn't quite roll off the tongue, but in the interest of accuracy it might work better.

[counterpoint]

In my experience, it's the stupidest men who are for feminism. There lack the self-insight to realize is against their own interest and it donning what it claims to be against. Feminism is sexism, and it tires to increase discrimination by making discriminatory laws.

The main focus should be on justice, and since feminism is unjust, then feminism is an enemy and not a partner.

Both men and women are treated unfairly, but in different ways, feminism is ok with men being treated unfairly, they only want women to be treated better, even if it mean to treated men unfairly.

Same-sex marriage is a moral issues as much as anything, it’s not gender based. White people are victim of racism all the time, for being white but often also for beign the wrong kind of white – by other whites. Jew are mostly white, yet holocaust happen to mainly white Jews.
Bering white doesn't mean you are not victimized, should be self evident.

[counterpoint]

“All right, if no culture excuses rape, why do I constantly see excuses for it?”"
For the same reason some are actually raped, because of bad individuals. Our culture do not support/condone or excuses rape, murder, racism or sexism. Individuals however do, but not society or the culture.

I work in the national police force in my county, I have never ehards anyone saying “She was asking for it” sending out the wrong signals happens, but it’s no excuse for rape and it doesn't becomes any less of crime based on the girls wrong signals. But claim girl never send the wrong signals, is plainly wrong, it happens.

Men can't be raped, by other men, but virtually never by a woman. Women may sexually assault men, but never rape. 1 in 3 paedophile victims had a female perpetrator, yet the general public is in complete denial about this despite statistics showing this.

[counterpoint]

"date rape" and "statutory rape" are named rape in English only. Not in other languages, so this is a anglo-american issue, not the reality in the rest of the world. What you call rape, is more often sexual assault than rape in legal terms. The penalty may be different or identical, but it’s different paragraphs in the penal code, so it’s not rape.

We do not have "sexual assault culture" although this is far more common than rape. The number of people who have been sexually assault is many time higher than rape victims, but that doesn't mean the culture supports it.

However, there are subcultures that are "sexual assault cultures", it could be certain groups within Islam or on collages etc.. So sexual assault subcultures exists, but this is not what feminists talk about or mean when they say “rape culture”.

[DinaM]

You just keep showing that you have no clue what feminism really is. While there haye been, and continues to be, long arguments between different branches of feminism, and individual feminists, on what exactly feminism IS, sexism is not and has never been a part of it, and feminism is not "okay" with men being treated unfairly.

Granted, there have been women who have used feminism as an excuse for their own sexism, and for treating men unfairly, but I have mentioned this before and see no reason to go through this again.

Yes, we want women to be treated "better," but in this case it does not mean "better than men." It means we want to be treated as equals. And yes, I know, here comes the complaints that we just want all the advantages and want to be superior to men, but this isn't what feminism is about at all, outside of the caricatured version that's been spread... mainly, I suspect, by the selfsame stupid men who couldn't handle something not being about them.

[DinaM]

Your argument about same-sex marriage somehow being based on morals and not gender is pretty absurd to me -- but it's also completely irrelevant to the argument, as is your somewhat tedious attempt to pull the "white people suffer from racism too" argument.

Because my point with bringing these up was to bring up issues that have not negatively affected me, and which I still find in my heart to care about. It was to show that you CAN care about people who aren't you, and who might not even be in the same group as you.

[DinaM]

And those excuses, in my opinion, are rubbish. Men CAN and ARE raped by women, and saying that they can't is doing a terrible disservice to the poor men who have been rape victims. Kind of weird that I, as a self-acclaimed feminist, seem to feel more concern for these men than a lot of anti-feminist men do... even though, according to you, feminism is about treating men unfairly.

And honestly, now you're just being pedantic. Starting to nitpick about "well, this wasn't RAPE" is just an excuse, it's just trying to make it seem like less of a big deal than it really is, and trying to justify the fact that someone sexually assaulted another person.

I don't think we're ever going to see eye to eye on this. No matter, I've said my piece.

[counterpoint]

Real feminism is what feminists in power make of it, not what the dictionary say it is supposed to be. You don’t judge Christians based on the bible say they are supposed to be, but on what they do and say in real life. In the same manner I judge feminism based on behavior of those who claim to be feminists.

When feminists make proposals of legislation introducing discriminatory laws, they they are sexists and in favor of discrimination. No matter what they calm, actions speaks louder than words.

Nazism is no paper not about genocide or holocaust, yet we will juge them on this and for good reasons. There actions prove their climes to be false.

Feminism want women to be treated better than men, this is proved by the many suggestions and proposals made by feminists. They want all improvement for women, non for men. Want to keep the advantages of being a woman, but loose the disadvantages. They want women to have more rights then men, so they ground is not levels.

[counterpoint]

They blatantly want to use discrimination to achieve not equal rights but equal results.

This is where feminism fails big time, they want equality of outcome, rather than equal rights.

“Because my point with bringing these up was to bring up issues that have not negatively affected me, and which I still find in my heart to care about. It was to show that you CAN care about people who aren't you, and who might not even be in the same group as you.”

This is simply called empathy. It’s bit patronizing to assume I didn’t understood your intent, I used to opportunity to say same-sex marrige is not a feminists issues and should be keept out of the debate.

Same-sex marriage and abortion, is not about women rights, it’s about definitions and morals.

[counterpoint]

I do obviously have empathy as well, I am not personally affected by feminism but I do feel with those victimized by feminism., in the same way as I empathizes with victim's of communism, nazisme, despots and all other kinds of totalitarianism's.

I empathizes with those who is discriminated against though legislation worldwide, in third world countries it’s women, in western countries it’s men.

http://www.realsexism.com/

Men are sexually assaulted by women, and can be raped with strapon's by women yes of if forced to sex with violence or threats of violence.

Almost all male victims of sexual crimes are either done by women when they where children or by by other men (in prison for instance). It’s very rare indeed to find a case of an adult male actually raped by a women, they exists but are very rare.

The dominant political form of feminism, is about treating men unfairly, if not by intent then by treating women better (same result).

[counterpoint]

Honestly, you're just being an ignorant idealog, refusing to see the reality and keeps clinging to the textbook definition. What constitutes rape matters, as least to those of us policing. If I charge someone with rape, and he/she is only guilty of sexual assault, then they may be declared innocent by the courts. You need to charge people by the proper paragraphs in the law, this is one of the main tasks of the public prosecutor in insures the charges fits the evidence.
So what constitutes rape matters, it’s actually key-essential in the legal system.

I have never EVER justified someone’s sexually assault on anyone, this only happen in your head, not in our common reality. In the contrary, sexually assault is a crimes and will result in charges when reported and sufficient evidence's are found.

We will never see eye to eye since you are a feminists and a idealog, unable to comprehend the reality you live in. Filtering your world view though the glassed of feminists ideology.

[DinaM]

Yeah. Feel free to make up your own response to that, which contains the word "pot," "kettle" and "black."

Thing is, it's EASY to be against unfair treatment when it is towards people of your own group, or if it happens in countries that are far away from yours... because that means you can be secure in the knowledge that none of it is YOUR fault, and even better, YOU don't have to change, or give anything up. It's all someone else's responsibility.

So it's a lot easier to go "no, we don't live in a rape culture" and "rape is never excused in MY part of the world," because if you acknowledged that it was, it would mean there was a problem with your culture that you would then feel obligated to try and fix. And that's such a HASSLE. Likewise, it's a lot easier to insist that "feminists are man-haters and men are the victims" than acknowledge that sexism against women is still a thing, because that means you don't have to give up anything, or change anything about yourself.

[DinaM]

Want to show me you do have empathy for people who aren't you? Okay, then tell me about any cause you support, that WASN'T about you or about people belonging to your gender/race/ideology/family... and where you knew that if the case came through it would mean you were in some way inconvenienced. You'd either have to give something up, or change something about yourself.

[counterpoint]

“Thing is, it's EASY to be against unfair treatment when it is towards people of your own group”
Funny coming from a feminists wanting changing in society for HER own advantage!!!

That being say, you are right as far at reasoning goes, but not as far as me personally goes in this subject.

I want equality under the law, nothing more or less. Same duties and privileges, regardless of gender, and I want this in everything country on earth without exceptions.

In order for both genders to be equal under the law, both need to give up the privileges under the law.

[counterpoint]

I am willing, but are you willing to include women for conscription into the armed-forces where conscription currently exists – non voluntarily mind you?
Are you willing to give of custody for the children in case of divorce?

It’s not easier to go "no, we don't live in a rape culture" it’s a fact of reality, we don’t an there is no evidence to the contrary. We don’t have to acknowledged ideological dogmas as really.

We can’t fix cultures in any way, you can influence culture through legislation and argumentation/information that’s about it. And you will never get everyone onbard.

Most feminists are not man-haters, but almost all politically active are sexists. All identity policy's are discriminatory in nature.

“Okay, then tell me about any cause you support, that WASN'T about you or about people belonging to your gender/race/ideology/family”, as I said equality before the law for all regardless of gender/race/ideology/family etc.. Nothing more or less.

[DinaM]

"Funny coming from a feminists wanting changing in society for HER own advantage!!!"
I specifically said, at least twice, that I ALSO have fought for men's rights, some of which would be to MY disadvantage, but that I considered this an issue separate from feminism. It IS possible to have more than one concern.

"I am willing, but are you willing to include women for conscription into the armed-forces where conscription currently exists – non voluntarily mind you?"
Yes. That is, I would want all military service to be voluntary, but if it HAS to be mandatory for men then it should also be mandatory for women.

"Are you willing to give of custody for the children in case of divorce?"
I'm infertile and can't have children, but if I could, and shared custody wasn't an option, AND I thought it was best for the children, then yes. Having a child means you HAVE to think of what's best for the child, not what's best for you.

[DinaM]

"It’s not easier to go "no, we don't live in a rape culture" it’s a fact of reality, we don’t an there is no evidence to the contrary. We don’t have to acknowledged ideological dogmas as really."
You have just DEMONSTRATED that it's easier, with your "no it's not" responses.

“Okay, then tell me about any cause you support, that WASN'T about you or about people belonging to your gender/race/ideology/family”, as I said equality before the law for all regardless of gender/race/ideology/family etc.. Nothing more or less.
But that IS about you. I'm asking if you have any cases you support where you WEREN'T one of the benefitting parties.

[counterpoint]

Of cause it possible to have more than one concern. However in reality to can’t have two masters, you can’t spend all your time fighting the feminists causes while saving the whales or the starving children in African... in reality you have to chose, how to spend your time and energy.

My problem with feminism is not, the choice made to fight for the causes, my problem is the ideology and the false belief system.

There is no patriarchy, there is no rape culture, there is not all sort of claims made by feminists. They evidence prove them wrong, and this is my issues with feminism. It’s wrong purer and simple. My second issues with feminism is the policies proposed by feminists, they are sexist and discriminatory, all most all of them.

[counterpoint]

You claim you “have fought for men's rights, some of which would be to MY disadvantage”, but this is meaningless when wishing for discriminatory systems for men. If you have men's rights in mind, then you wouldn't be a feminist, but a humanist or egalitarian.

I am not a feminists, but I do believe in equality before the law, and this is far better than feminism.
I do not believe in the equality of outcome, this is am atrocious belief system.

100% equality before the law, means female conscription and female combat services. It means different rules when shared custody isn't an option (never is IRL, the mother have more power by the law in every country in western hemisphere).

Most laws and societies think it is best for the children to be with the mother, only some Islamic countries (actual patriarchies) don’t thing so and they thing is best to be with the father – equally bad.

[counterpoint]

I have demonstrated nothing but the lying claims of feminists, It’s not about easier or not, it’s about right and wrong. There is no rape culture, and it’s not based on being easier to say, but based on reality.

Equality before the law for all regardless of gender/race/ideology/family is not about me, it’s about right or wrong. It doesn't become more or less right, based on how it may affect me or you and it shouldn't.

I don’t support any cases where it’s not not benefiting for ALL humans, by definition this is what make thighs good or bad, it should be balanced and good for ALL humans not just some.

[Anonymous]

I allegedly "deserved" to get raped.
People, just because you condone rape doesn't mean everyone does it the same way you do.
The last pyramide is very accurate: small things lead to others. You think it's harmless, nothing more than slightly offensive jokes and indiscrete looks until your drink gets spiked and your prise shattered, because you thought rape culture doesn't exist, you thought that only sickos rape, but I can tell you that very normal-looking people rape too.

The worse part is my rapists are probably still living normal lives since I have no evidence and it's three people's words against mine.
Meanwhile, I got permanent trauma and I prefer to drift into social oblivion as they're already putting the word out to everyone I know it was consensual.

[Opinion Owner]

Why do I get thumbs down? Are these the pro-rape gagers?

[DinaM]

Probably it's from people thinking that you're accusing them of being pro-rape. That's what usually happens in my experience.

[Opinion Owner]

@DinaM I didn't accuse anyone before the thumbs down. They're like "oh you got raped? Fuck you, thumb down"
WTF?

[DinaM]

I know you didn't, but they probably thought you did. Because you can't say "rape culture exists" without a bunch of people taking this as an accusation and getting angry about it.

[Opinion Owner]

@DinaM They probably felt targeted

[DinaM]

Probably, yeah.

[jacquesvol]

Some guy wrote that a person who isn't armed can be raped.

[Cammy137]

Can you give me some examples of Western societies that encourage people "not to get raped" rather than not to rape?
Do we also have a murder culture? What about an assault culture? I mean we tell people to take precautions not get attacked, right?
I'm not sure what sort of culture you're living in but almost none of the stuff you've mentioned applies to my culture.

[MelaninDoll]

AMEN!!!

[jacquesvol]

Indeed, a murder culture? A weekly mass shooting. What about an assault culture? Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYqKx1GuZGg

And then there's Kavanaugh, pushed as SCOTUS judge for life.

[jacquesvol]

Cammy137 the theory teach girls not to get raped is spread all over Gag. Just like the "A guy accused of rape suffers more than a raped girl." theory.

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol That's just evidence that murders and assaults take place. Nobody ever describes the culture as being a murder culture or an assault culture.

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137 Influencer "Nobody ever describes the culture as being a murder culture or an assault culture." What with the weekly mass shootings then?
Not a murder culture?
What with a POTUS saying "Grab them by the pussy"
What with a SCOTUS candidate with four witnesses complaining about sexual assault, and under FBI investigation? Many women in show business complaining about sexual assault? Not an assault culture?
Don't use ostrich tactics.

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol I mean I can't speak volumes about the US as I'm not up to date on the daily goings on of Trump and his administration. However, it sounds like you're just describing crimes. I mean would we not also be in a drug culture, a fraud culture, a corruption culture... you could attach the word to pretty much any negative aspect of a society and through what you're saying it would apply... and when everything described as a culture, nothing is.

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol Also, I didn't say it wasn't a murder culture in the sense that murders don't happen. I simply pointed out that nobody uses the phrase "murder culture". That was my point. I wasn't debating the crime itself.

[jacquesvol]

Murder isn't really debated: people think it makes the news shows and tabloids interesting.
Murder has become part of the daily news.

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137 a drug culture? States are in a race to legalize weed to attract drug tourism and other drugs are sold in schools and clubs.

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol Right, but can you give me an example of any time that anyone has ever referred to the US as a murder culture, drug culture, or any other culture in the same manner that has been done in protest of its apparent rape culture?

[jacquesvol]

Why do you think so many Americans buy guns? Because they don't know what to do with their savings?

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol Again, I'm not disputing the violence or the crimes. I'm referring entirely to the terminology and the approach to dealing with said cultures.

[jacquesvol]

'Murica deals very well with said cultures

i.pinimg.com/.../...3dde09f1645ea517d6e0cf15ef.jpg

[jacquesvol]

@ Cammy137 examples of Western societies that encourage people "not to get raped" rather than not to rape?
I read it often on Gag. Don't forget many guys think rape is only done by strangers, in a dark back alley.
NOT at a party, by an American friend of an American friend. Then it's surprise or forced sex.

[jacquesvol]

www.askideas.com/.../...-Picture-For-Whatsapp.jpeg

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137
www.google.com/search

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol I'm not sure why you're spamming these "surprise sex" links. If you're implying that because people make light of rape that is evidence of a rape culture that we are literally an everything culture because you can find jokes and humor about absolutely everything. You also have to consider that these memes are created by a small minority of people.

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137 it's a widely used euphemism

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol Sure, within the context of humour. People aren't going around raping people and then saying "well it's actually called surprise sex".

[jacquesvol]

Not humor. They just feel less guilty about it if they use an euphemism.

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol All those memes are meant ENTIRELY as humour. Are you seriously suggesting that they were made be rapists who were simply trying to make their act seem less awful?

[MelaninDoll]

stop replying!! >:(

[Cammy137]

@MelaninDoll Will do! Sorry, forgot other people were getting these notifications.

[jacquesvol]

@Cammy137 I read guys here on gag talking about surprise sex. The women I know would consider it rape.

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol Right, but talking about something is not the same as doing it. I'm happy to continue this conversation but for the sake of the other people on this thread, let's stop commenting here.

[MelaninDoll]

Thank you

[DJZest]

@jacquesvol You're sleeping. Wake up!

[jacquesvol]

@ Cammy137 www.biblegateway.com/.../
it's the whole culture

[Cammy137]

@jacquesvol Religions are barbaric. You're not going to see me debating that. However, upwards of 70% of my county are non-religious. If you actually want to discuss this further then message me but stop spamming links here. Especially when they aren't actually relevant or supporting any sort of argument.

[MlleCake]

I was told I was lying just to gain sympathy, here, on GAG, less than a week ago.

Thanks for this take.

[OlderAndWiser]

Our culture advances theft and robbery because we spend more time telling people how not to become victims of theft and robbery than we do educating people to not steal and rob.

Calling someone else ignorant says much about who you are, brave blue anon!

[CoffeeWC]

I believe there is a rape culture. Some people just do a good job of hiding their motives.

[Eridan]

There's no such thing as rape culture, not in the western world.
1. Calling victims attention seekers when they announce their experience
- There is such a thing as presumption of innocence, also known as in dubio pro reo. It means that unless the crime is proven and the perpetrator is convicted beyond reasonable doubt, you have to assume that it either never happened or that the perpetrator isn't known. That's how criminal law works and it should work that way as it is one of the pillars of our civilisation. So naturally, people seek out other explanations for the alleged crime when it's announced.
2. Victim blaming
- "No wonder you got mugged if you walk around the city alone at night". Victim blaming is not confined to rape and it most certainly isn't a proof that there is such a thing as a "rape culture".
3. Gaslighting victims and calling them liars when they are telling the truth
- See n. 1.
4. Assuming that men can't get raped or sexually assaulted and if he gets raped then he "deserved" because he's weak
- Who really thinks that anyone "deserves" to get raped?
5. Assuming that a straight man is gay if he complains about getting sexually assaulted or abused by a woman and that he should feel "lucky," even though he wasn't in the mood to have sex or he's not attracted to the particular woman who raped him
- apparently, a lot of men wouldn't mind being coerced into sex by a woman and they find it hard to believe that any other straight man would. That still doesn't make it okay of course, but it's hardly evidence of a "rape culture".
6. Assuming a gay/bi man can't get raped by a man because he's attracted to men and he must've enjoyed it, even though he wasn't in the mood to have sex or he's not attracted to the particular man who raped him
- That's just pure homophobia and I'm sure there's a lot of bigoted people who think that way, but it's not evidence of a "rape culture".
7. Assuming that sexual assault victims aren't really victims because they didn't actually get raped
- Sexual assault is still a crime, it must be prosecuted and the perpetrator punished. Who really assumes anything else? Sexual assault is defined by law.
8. Assuming that a man is not a "real man" if he doesn't try to convince another person to have sex with him after the other person said no
- If this notion was a part of our culture, I assume I would've at least heard of it, but it sounds just completely foreign.

[Eridan]

9. Assuming that men always want sex, so they can't get raped
- You're repeating yourself, see n. 4, 5 and 6 that deal with male victims of rape
10. Believing that teenage boys should be forgiven for committing assault and rape because they were "just being boys" and "made a mistake"
- Most countries have an age limit for full criminal responsibility, so it's not a belief, it's law.
11. Assuming that it's impossible for women to be sexual predators
- It's not impossible, but it's unlikely and that's a reasonable assumption considering the obvious differences between the sexes in terms of their anatomy and physical strength.
12. Assuming that unattractive people can't be victims of sexual abuse and assault
- Nobody assumes that.

[Benedek38]

"Calling victims attention seekers when they announce their experience"
But... it is attention seeking.
Reporting it to the police is not.
Talking about it is not. Well, unless you annoy people with it.
But announcing, to me, means you stand in the middle. of a group, and say "BTW guys, I was raped!"
That's not a natural thing to do if you don't seek attention. Imagine it in a different situation.
Say, I was mugged yesterday. I meet with my friends. I tell them "guys, you won't beleive this. I was mugged yesterday."
Why did I say that? To gain their attention and support.
It's not always bad to seek attention if you need emotional or perhaps physical support, but be upfront about it, and don't claim it isn't for attention.

"Victim blaming"
Ridding the victim of all responsibility is reductive, and on thea long run leads to even more victims. If I tell pedestrians "you have priority at crosswalks, you can cross anytime, you won't be blamed for not looking around, the car will be at fault" - well, guess what? There will be pedestrians run over.

"Assuming that sexual assault victims aren't really victims because they didn't actually get raped"
That depends on the assault. Grabbing someone's ass is technically sexual assault, but it won't give them PTSD for life. Urinating on them while being tied up to a bed is sexual assault too... but I'd possibly consider it as bad as rape. Well, unless it is consensual.

"Assuming that a man is not a "real man" if he doesn't try to convince another person to have sex with him after the other person said no"
It's less about being or not being a man, and more about strategy - women olay stupid games where they sometimes reject guys even though they are attracted to them, to test how strong they want them. This is a stupid behaviour. Women should be more upfront about their sexuak attraction, and then men wouldn't have to deal with this kind of crap.

"Believing that teenage boys should be forgiven for committing assault and rape because they were "just being boys" and "made a mistake""
But that's literally what happens. Teenage boys are stupid and immature. Judging them by the same standards as adults is reductive. Not to mention they are hormonal. They are essentially "on their period" from 14 to 19 y. o. or so. I bet you've done stupid shit when you had your period before. Plus testosterone increases aggression.
Seriously, we have never judged child criminals by the same standards, why is rape rhe exception?

[Benedek38]

by the way raoe culture doesn't exist. The idea that it is a culture is that it is not frowned upon. Most of the things you mentioned ARE frowned upon.

[_Gentleman]

I am not sure what you are meaning to say here, if I am to be honest. If you are explaining that rape culture is any culture in which there are people who don't fully understand the gravity of rape, or do not believe everyone who says they have been raped, or thinks being sexually harassed in other ways is not as bad as rape, or believe men are not often rape victims as women are, then I see why you explained it how you did.

However, this includes every culture I can think of. This actually includes me if I definitely it loosely. So, I am a part of "rape culture," meaning I am a person who in some ways does not view rape or sexual assault with the appropriate gravity?

I apologise if this seems horribly offensive, but, while still quite awful an experience, I do not think being groped, flashed, exposed or molested is as awful a thing as having been raped is. I also do not believe that men are raped as often as ladies, simply because of what I have heard and seen. It may be that there are in fact many men who were raped, and just failed to report it. However, it would seem that the majority of these unfortunate victims are ladies.

I am not certain what your intent was in posting this, but I disagree with labeling such a culture as you have described as "rape" culture. Your definition was just too subjective and a bit broad for me to either understand it properly, or agree with what I believe it may have meant.

Of course rape is a horrible misfortune to experience and a grave crime to commit. But a joke is hardly condoning. It may be insensitive and in poor humor, but it does not condone. I have made jokes about murder before. I'll admit only a few were laughable, but certainly I do not approve of murder just because I have found made up or exaggerated examples of it, when twisted appropriately, to be humorous!

This was a highly interesting take, yet I cannot say that you have convinced me of anything. My apologies if I have simply been oblivious to an important detail and have terribly misconstrued your argument. I cannot seem to understand it entirely.

[Bananaman177]

How stupid do you have to be to actually think that there's guys out there raping women because nobody "taught them" it was wrong?

Like wow, you actually think they simply don't know that rape is bad, like "Oh my God, Becky is saying that John raped her last night!"

"Aww shit! I knew I forgot to tell that guy something! Fuck! I better call him and tell him before he rapes again."

One of the stupidest, most retarded ideas I've ever heard fall out of a feminist's mouth. Trust me ladies, guys who rape are actually aware that it's wrong, they even know it's against the law!

We absolutely have a broken criminal justice system and we absolutely have a broken society full of broken people and some of them become sexual predators, we have a lot of real problems, you don't need to make up some bullshit about how there's a secret underground male culture that tells boys it's okay to rape, or that boys need to be sat down in a classroom and taught that it's not okay to rape.

Fucking stupid shit. Every aspect of this line of thinking is more retarded than the last, the more you actually unpack what these feminists are saying, the more it makes you just cringe.

[PsychoKiller]

This is beyond stupid. First, that definition is fucking retarded - even 3rd world shithole countries don't normalize and trivialize sexual assault. According to that definition, rape culture doesn't exist at all. Second, for the burning question: no, nobody actually blames girls for getting raped. BUT, criminals and predators exists, always have, always will, thats a fact, and whoever ignores that fact is an idiot. And since they exist, and we can do absolutely nothing about it, the thing you can do is not make yourself easy prey. I don't support robbing people as well, but if a businessman with a $500 000 suit and a gold chain walks into the ghetto and gets robbed, everybody would say, including me, "you had it coming". I don't support sharks eating humans, but if somebody jumps among sharks and gets eaten, nobody would be surprised. If a girl wants to dress as a whore, she needs to understand that certain risks exist. Does her short skirt mean she wants sex with you? No. But does a rapist give a flying fuck about what she wants? NO. Rapists have been known to rape fully clothed women as well. It happens. But by dressing like a whore, you are just making yourself easy prey for them, low hanging fruit. All you idiots are talking as if rapists are reasonable civilized people, and if you turn their attention towards some of your moral values, they will stop what they are doing, which is childish and ridiculous. Rape, murder, kidnapping, stealing and all other kinds of crime have existed as long as humans have, and will exist as long as humans do.

[PsychoKiller]

Also you forgot to mention the other side of the story: false rape accusations? Those are even worse than rape, and seem to be happening more and more often. Rape is a single traumatic event, that may or may not follow you with memories/PTSD for some time. Sending an innocent man to prison is destroying his entire life, subjecting him to a series of everyday traumatic events that he will never get rid off, and all because the girl is a psychotic bitch.

[jacquesvol]

@PsychoKiller blaming the victim?
That's part of rape culture. :p

[PsychoKiller]

@jacquesvol if thats what you got from my post, you really need to read it again

[FatherJack]

@PsychoKiller Unfortunately there are generally no sanctions against women that make malicious false accusations , hence they have no qualms about doing so. One rare exception , Jemma Beale , but only after 15 men were jailed for crimes they did not commit. She got 10 years , but will likely only do half that

[jacquesvol]

@FatherJack malicious false accusations are
*-false reports to police and
*-slander and can be be punished as such.
If it ever gets to court, it's
*-perjury and that's punished seriously.
Thus stop spreading the hoax about innocent men victim of slandering unpunishedwomen

[jacquesvol]

These men are usually black and victims of police and jury racism.

[PsychoKiller]

@FatherJack it is a generally sensitive case, because it is always extremely hard to determine what actually happenned, but as I said, false rape accusations should be considered a far more serious crime than rape. its literally destroying an innocent mans life for good. many women got their lives back together after rape. but if you go to jail, not only can you get raped every day (not just once), beaten up, stabbed etc. etc. And even if you survive (which is unlikely, even experienced criminals dont swim well in prison, not to mention an innocent man), for the rest of your life you are a "rapist" and an "ex convict". say goodbye to decent jobs, friends, relationships and many other things

[jacquesvol]

Emmet Till did not rape. The girl didn't accuse him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

[jacquesvol]

@PsychoKiller You just gave the reason why rape victims should be silenced. Cops and DAs and lawyers doit already.
Would you want to happen that to your mother, sister or fiancee?

[PsychoKiller]

@jacquesvol would you want your son to spend his life in jail because of some psychotic bitch who lied?

[PsychoKiller]

@FatherJack

[jacquesvol]

@PsychoKiller That won't happen.
He doesn't rape and rapists do not spend their life in jail.

[PsychoKiller]

@jacquesvol so what if he doesn't rape? I was talking about FALSE rape accusations, so he is definitely a potential victim. And he doesn't have to spend his whole life in prison. But how would you feel if he got ass raped and beaten up daily, for years, maybe even killed in prison? And even if he survived it, how would you feel when he couldn't get a job anywhere, and when everybody started avoiding him?

[Anonymous]

1. Is it in any way possible that someone could make a claim in order to get attention? If yes, then we have to consider it seriously.

2. Feeling blamed and being blamed are not the same. It's entirely necessarily to question the victim about the circumstances.

3. It's possible they may be liars. You can also just as easily gaslight the suspect. So let's not play that game.

7. Do people do that though? Every culture makes a distinction between severity of sexual crimes. If there's a class of crime called sexual assault and a more sever version called rape then they're not necessarily victims of rape just because they were sexually assaulted. It's important to define terms and stick to them.

10. This has never been a prevailing attitude. This "boys will be boys" shit as en excuse for sexual assault is contrived.

12. That's new but okay. I think people are inclined to disbelieve particularly unattractive people. But is that data not accurate?

"You see how all these behaviors and attitudes trivialize and normalize sexual abuse and assault? You see how it doesn't just affect women?"
I see how bombarding the public with with ideas such as rape culture normalize the notion that these things are real and not contrived for political and ideological agendas.

[myTake Owner]

2. I know, but it still has the effect of making the victim feel trivialized. Plenty of people still blame the victim.
7. Yes, some people do that. I never said sexual assault and rape are the same thing or that experiencing sexual assault makes you a victim of rape. I meant they are victims of sexual assault. Some people overlooked those victims' experiences just because they didn't experience something worse than sexual assault.
10. I'm pretty damn sure even if Kavanaugh did commit sexual assault when he was in high school, a lot of ignorant people would say that he was just a teenage boy and give off the "boys will just boys" kind of attitude...

"I see how bombarding the public with with ideas such as rape culture normalize the notion that these things are real and not contrived for political and ideological agendas."
But the things I mentioned do occur in real life. It's like a pyramid that builds up to more violent behaviors.

[myTake Owner]

1. Yes it's possible. If someone was actually raped, trying to silence them by calling them attention seekers as soon as they mention it does have the effect of trivializing and normalizing rape. A lot of people do that these days.

[myTake Owner]

3. Yes it's possible to gaslight any suspect of any crime when they didn't commit it. But when a large number of people, who experienced rape, are being gaslighted, then it does have the effect of trivializing and normalizing rape. Rape can be difficult and complicated to investigate because there are a lot of psychological/social/physical factors that go into it that make it difficult.

[Opinion Owner]

1. No, it doesn't. It's specifically not normalizing or trivializing rape. The severity and intolerance of rape remains the same, the point is people are dismissing the claim; they just don't believe you. But this is never going to go away and trying to remove any doubt from others when a claim is made is not just unrealistic, it's undesirable.

You can be reverse gas-lighted (or is that still just gas-lighting?). You can be convinced something is far worse and different than it was.

What is more prevalent than gas-lighting is the presumption of guilt of the accused. People are very quick to convict in the court of public opinion and ruin a guy based on a mere accusation. This is the other side of that coin and I think it's weighted more heavily to this side if it's weighted either way.

[Opinion Owner]

2. Well if it was a false claim then it's appropriate to trivialize it. If it's a claim that seems to be entirely consensual -- while not a lie that they *feel* assaulted -- neither is it truthful to call it rape.

Doesn't mean it's any kind of systemically present attitude.

3. I think what you're calling gas-lighting is the rigor of skepticism. But attitudes can be swayed in either direction and it seems like there's just as much pressure if not more to be a victim of such things than to not. And it's the presence of that attitude that means people react in kind of excessive hyperbolic claims of victimhood with dismissiveness. These are muddy waters, so I don't think it's entirely wrong to be dismissive or skeptical here but hyperbolic victimhood has made it harder to take people seriously. I'd be inclined to argue that feverish pedestalization of victimhood is more akin to rape culture than what we see in mundane society.

[Opinion Owner]

7. There's a load of hysteria around this topic and there's people who have been assaulted who are sick of people freaking out about it like they're dying because of a minor sexual offense. Considering some offenses to be lesser than others is reasonable, but I don't think this leads to people being entirely dismissive unless the reaction of the victim is hyperbolic.

It's worth noting that many things that should be considered worse than sexual assault don't seem to get as much attention. Sexual assault is the buzzing issue everyone likes to talk about but people don't seem overly concerned with things such as murder or violent assault. Such things seem more severe and I think in contrast to those issues sexual assault get too much attention and gravity.

10. I disagree entirely. People will be dismissive of youthful indiscretions more that full-grown adult indiscretions. But specific to boys? Definitely no. If anything, they're going to be treated more harshly relative to girls.

[CubsterShura]

Her behavior seemed exactly what someone perpetuating rape culture would do. I'm so glad that you pointed this out, thank you. The writer of that myTake heavily failed to understand how complicated and difficult rape cases can be which was really disappointing.

[myTake Owner]

That writer is obviously a troll and probably a catfish

[ATuairiscean]

Very good take - That would my perception of the term "Rape Culture" too BUT the outrage that some feel is it can be taken too far by some individuals - There is probably no issue that will have 100% full support and given time proponents and opponents can list off experiences, examples that give the nightmare scenario of their case - In todays culture we don't come together to find common ground we retreat to our corners to come out fighting, that is saddest thing of all and genuine victims are getting lost in the weeds of ideology.

[Anonymous]

Most people don’t trivialize sexual assault or rape. Besides most people agree that sexual assault and heinous crimes are heinous acts.

Here’s the problem with people who like to bring up the so called “rape culture”. They almost always focus on the female victims, while only briefly mentioning male victims. I know, you acknowledge that men can be victims too but it doesn’t seem sincere. No offense intended but I think the reason why you only mentioned that males can be victims is for damage control, you know a lot of people were going to scoff at your take/article. But it’s still obvious that you are more concerned about female victims than male victims, instead of equally caring about male and female victims.

[bubbatxman]

I think a line needs to be drawn.
I agree with “no means no”, but a guy should not have to ask to speak to you, ask to touch, ask to kiss, ask to hug, etc. A girl just needs to communicate when she is at her limit and a man needs to respect that. So I am saying that men should not have to ask permission, but when a woman puts up a stop sign, he should stop.

I know people will argue with me on this, but I don’t want to live in a world where men are emasculated asking permission to even speak to a woman.

A balance has to be struck. My daughter is very clear in establishing her boundaries and punishing boys who violate them. A boy tried to lay on top of her and press his dick into her crotch (with clothes on both). She kneed him in the crotch, let him roll around for 10 minutes in agony and then asked him to leave. I escorted him out.

No means no. But women don’t get to claim abuse every time an unattractive boy talks to them either.

[bubbatxman]

I am also vigilant in saying that true rapists should receive severe punishment. Men that rape women, through drugging, through force, or any other means deserve the death penalty if convicted on 3 or more offenses. But a Supreme Court nominee should not be emasculated for an embarrassing situation he didn’t know how to handle when he was 17.

[bubbatxman]

When I was 17, there was a culture in my home town for boys to “see how far they could go” with a girl. No meant no, once the girl got to her limit. I see the same situation this Supreme Court nominee and yet, it is being made out to be “rape culture”. Is it? What are the checkpoint. s where a boy has to ask? I need to know this for my sons, if it is much more than “no means no”?

[Sososinaxoxo]

I wish you could have @ me so I could see this! ^_^ maybe it was just against the rules.
Rape culture doesn't exist in my book!
That's so unfortunate that you believe this.
I feel kind of bad for you actually.
Oh well! We're all entitled to our own opinions.
I'm kind of flattered that my take gave you inspiration though! You're welcome! ^_^ <3

[EnglishArtsteacher]

It's not that rape culture doesn't exist. But here in the United States of Idiots, people think we're the only country with a rape culture, and it's totally false. IF anything, the U. S. isn't near as bad as African, or Asian countries.

One anecdotal example I use is a girl I met in college who was an exchange student from South Africa. She told me rape was so normalized there, there would rarely be TRIALS on rape. She said people had the attitude of "it happens", and "who cares?" more prevalent than anywhere she's ever been.

[jmstarling]

I love the eleventh principle pyramid and think it should be posted everywhere. Most of these are things I don't do. Sometimes I might accidentally fall into sexism, and the hardest one for me not to do (as in it takes the most effort not to do--not in the sense that I fail) is unwanted touch (non-sexual). I try to be super-restrained in my affection unless I'm sure. Even women friends who have hugged me in the past but don't consistently hug me have me being very careful to make sure any touch is OK.

[Anonymous]

Rapists are seen as the scum of the earth, and no one that isn't a rapist wants to normalize rape. We all agree, rape is bad. There is no rape culture.

[InTimoreDei]

THANK YOU. Good to hear a female express this sentiment. People act like society praises rapists and think they're "awesome" or something. A rape culture would mean that society as a whole loves rapists. Not true at all... so thinking there is a "culture" of rape is bloody asinine.

[Sososinaxoxo]

@InTimoreDei You are correct my friend!! Thumbs up!

[CubsterShura]

Rape culture isn't about loving rape or rapists. It is about normalizing it. And believe me hunny, if your own son raped a girl someday you will be the first one to call the victim a liar.

[Opinion Owner]

@CubsterShura. If there was proof, I absolutely would not. I wouldn't believe an unsubstantiated allegation, but I won't believe one about a complete stranger either. So, don't presume to tell me what I would believe, and don't call me hunny.

[CubsterShura]

Fine I'll call you bitter melon then. So listen there bitter melon, things are way easier said than done.

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura Omfg it you again XD

[Sososinaxoxo]

It's*

[Opinion Owner]

@CubsterShura. For you maybe. Not believing everyone that makes an allegation does not ewual rape culture. Not demonizong all men does noy equal rape culture. Not wanting rape to carry a lesser burden of proof than every other crime is not rape culture. Get over yourself.

[Sososinaxoxo]

I wouldn't even waste my time in her she's just not capable of understanding the truth.

[Sososinaxoxo]

On**

[Opinion Owner]

@Sososinaxoxo. I see you point!

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura Who the hell is normalizing rape?
XD Please leave people alone you don't know what you're talking about.

[jacquesvol]

@Sososinaxoxo do you want to be the only one expressing an opinion?

[CubsterShura]

@Sososinaxoxo how about you leave us alone? If you facing sexual abuse before makes you an expert in this topic, might as well make someone a doctor cause he has been sick before. If you only keep bringing up something that a small percentage of people do and disbelief an entire population of victims cause they didn't have evidence and not even being able to provide legitimate solutions, it does no benefit to everyone. There are false allegations in every single crime but suddenly it became a big deal in rape like how come?

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura What? I don't understand a word you just said.
I'm not talking to her I'm talking to you so there is no leave "us" alone.
I'm talking to you right now.

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura Ohhh I get it now.
Who said I was an expert?

[CubsterShura]

@Sososinaxoxo If you aren't an expert then don't act like a know-it-all and be like 'if ur a real victim give evidence' like you say that thing and don't even have any idea how they could do that, something that is actually practical and can be implemented for various kinds of situations. It's literally like you're telling someone to prepare for a quiz and not even telling them what to study to be prepared for it!

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura XD perception is everything I guess.

[CubsterShura]

@Sososinaxoxo it's not. You can state your opinion yes but when you tell someone to do something you also have to give them ideas on how to do it. It's like you telling a kid to study for exam but when they ask for some guidance you remain shut and say nothing because you yourself don't know shit about it.

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura XD I actually it is!
Just like how you assumed I'm so know it all because I told you you were wrong I know what rape culture is and it doesn't exist here.

[CubsterShura]

@Sososinaxoxo How can you be so sure? Because as far as I know many people in the US are still very conservative. There are plenty of South Asian, Arab and African communities in America. Don't say that those people don't count cause they do. When you say 'in the U. S.' you mean the native people, the White people, the non-white people, the citizens and the immigrants all living there. Cause remember even if many of them belong in different communities, majority of them are American citizens. America having so much diversity of people and being the fourth most populated country in the world, there is no way that rape culture would not exist in such a country.

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura XD when I say our country I mean the entire US Not just white people everywhere.
Rape culture does NOT exist.
It is not normal.
It is not okay.
It is not rewarded.
When you actually commit that terrible crime you go to jail maybe even for life.
Fine something else to complain about that doesn't exist here.

[jacquesvol]

@Sososinaxoxo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J4WO93tN7Kg

[myTake Owner]

You obviously didn't read the myTake. it doesn't matter that YOU consciously don't want to normalize rape. It's the attitude and behaviors that have the effect of normalizing and trivializing rape. Learn how to read first.

[myTake Owner]

@InTimoreDei it's probably not even a female. I can't believe people can be so naive to assume someone's gender over the Internet.

[Opinion Owner]

What does normalizing rape even mean? How is anyone normalizing rape? Examples, please? And I know how to read just fine.

[myTake Owner]

@Sososinaxoxo you can't even make a good rebuttal to save your own god-damn life. You aren't convincing anyone to change their mind. 1. When someone gets raped, it can be hard and complicated to prove because there is a lot of factors that affect rape victims 2. Social attitudes/behaviors that have the effect of normalizing/trivializing sexual assault/abuse exist all over the world. If you can't understand the previous sentence, you obviously have reading comprehension issues.

[Opinion Owner]

I see a lot of insulting and using tired buzz words, that's about it.

[CubsterShura]

The opinion owner and previous myTake writer both probably have one eye missing because they themselves state a bunch of opinions with no facts backing them up but when this myTake writer is stating facts they are claiming that they don't understand because that will clearly make it sound like nonsense. Girls you just haven't done your English classes properly.

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura I wonder why her opinion has so many likes than? If she's speaking such "nonsense"
face it little girl you need to pay attention in class.
Don't you have homework to finish?

[CubsterShura]

@Sososinaxoxo Because g@g is full of stupid people. And honey you're talking to a girl who's one of the top students in her class 😂 don't you have anything better to do with your life kiddo? Cause you're approximately a year older than me but still acting more immature than my 4 year old niece.

[CubsterShura]

Plus most up votes are from guys. Clearly shows you girls say these stuff only to get more validation from men. Poor you.

[Opinion Owner]

@CubsterShura. See, you're short on data and proof, so you want to resort to name calling and insults. Childish emotion does not make you right. You can't back up your claims, so everyone that doesn't agree with you is stupid. And you even had to throw in you're one of the top students in your class, so what? That doesn't mean you're right. I asked one question of everyone that came on my opinion frothing because they didn't agree. I asked for examples of normalizing rape, because buzz words prove nothing. None of y'all answered, but you sure got busy throwing the insults. So, we're done here.

[Opinion Owner]

And as to us having no facts. Your abscence of facts is our facts. You are saying something exists, we are saying it doesn't. You can't prove a negative. If you say unicorns exist and I say they don't, I would expect you to be able to show me a unicorn. I can't exactly go grab you a not unicorn.

[CubsterShura]

The facts are stated in this myTake and that is what rape culture is.

And here is how rape culture exists in America. Really, we all know people use the line 'She was drunk what does she expect?' in America.
http://time.com/40110/rape-culture-is-real/

www.buzzfeednews.com/.../nikki-benz-porn-defamation-lawsuit-metoo

You wanted evidence, I gave you some. Now who is talking without evidence here?

[Opinion Owner]

@CubsterShura. You are so annoying. The mytake proves notning. I want real world examples of this being the prevailing attitude of society, as that is what makes it a culture. All you've given me are words, opinions, and lame attampts to be a smart ass. Just go away.

[CubsterShura]

All you are doing is denying everything that I'm pointing out and even denying the articles I showed you which has clear explanation of how rape culture exists in America. Now that you actually understood that you got nothing to back off YOUR points, you're calling me names and telling me to get out 😂 which by the way I will do cause I'm no more willing to waste my time on an utter loser like you. Peace! ✌

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura I'm pretty sure that's a lie

[CubsterShura]

@Sososinaxoxo then prove that it's a lie, give some evidence young lady! Instead of just saying 'I'm pretty sure that's a lie' like how do you know? Where is your relevant source against it? Aren't you the same person who refuses to believe in rape accusations without relevant proof?

[CubsterShura]

You know what? You are being very hypocritical by heavily contradicting your own self and your own ideology. You ask for proof and now that I have given it to you, you deny it with a 'I'm pretty sure it's a lie' without having any relevant source proving that it's a lie. Bravo

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura You want evidence? Read all of your responses

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura Calling people names and going around not knowing what you're talking about is not smart

[CubsterShura]

I did not even call you names, saying that you are being hypocritical is not calling names. If I directly called you a hypocrite then I could accept your accusation as true. But now that you have given me a false accusation because you clearly have no idea what calling names is, it's ok I'll show you now what calling names really is.

@Sososinaxoxo look ar how you're talking, you no more have real evidence! Lmao poor you. And you tell me that I am the one who doesn't know what she is saying? Read your own responses first lol you told me that my replies are your 'evidence' bitch where? What on earth is that even supposed you mean? Whatcha smoking that's getting you so high? Listen there young lady, you know you're mad at this point because you can't prove your points like I did. Now don't act blind and say it's all lies cause it doesn't mane you sound smart either. In fact I'm convinced that you are nothing but an obstinate hypocrite. Hypocrite!! Lol good fucking bye ma'am.

[--Vi--]

@CubsterShura lol

[Sososinaxoxo]

@CubsterShura You called me a loser XD Stop cursing young lady!

[Sososinaxoxo]

You're only source of evidence is from this wacky knockoff mytake.
Is this really that reliable kid?
You are annoying af and know absolutely nothing.
Please stay in school and get a better education.

[jacquesvol]

@InTimoreDei www.spiegel.de/.../...men-post-wwii-a-1021298.html

[Anpu23]

Three observations
1 rape culture was originally used to describe the situation in western prisons, it was the idea that rape is normalized. By this definition there is no rape culture in the west. No one (including inmates) think thay rape is normal or acceptable.
2 it was feminist belief that women do not rape. That rape is a tool of the patriarchy and not an activity that women engage in. That is the reason why most people do not believe that women can rape, due to propaganda from 2nd wave feminism.
3 this idea that little things allow or normalize anti-social behavior is a fallacy. People who engage in abnormal behavior do not, as a generalization, think that what they are doing is acceptable. They are driven by darker desires or urges, not a belief that this is okay. Further virtually every convicted rapist reports having been sexualy assaulted as a child.

[ClassyMe]

Obviously there is such a thing as a rape culture it just doesn't exist in the west Especially the USA.

[JackJPershing]

Exactly. Yes, there are rapists, but the guys I know would dismantle a guy if they caught him raping a lady.

[Jonny317]

@JackJPershing too bad there aren’t more guys like the ones you know. Unfortunately most guys are not supportive enough of women to make an impact on our society overall. I’m glad you know the right people, but they’re not every guy. It’s not enough for every guy to not rape people we need to be able to protect and support the women around us. When it’s common knowledge that any guy would protect a woman. You’ll see Rape decrease. Until then, unfortunately most women are on their own and facing society that tells about they’re wrong.

[bamesjond0069]

@JackJPershing Most guys you know would dismantle a man who forcibly jumped a girl as she walked past an alley and held her down and raped her. The same guys would sit and watch TV while a drunk guy and girl had consensual sex in the next room at a superbowl party. rape =/=rape half these crazies call that rape though.

[jacquesvol]

@bamesjond0069 The same guys would sit and watch TV while a drunk guy and girl had NON consensual sex in the next room at a superbowl party.
In many groups rape is when a stranger knocks a girl on the head and drags her in the bushes while she is yelling.

[Goodwifie]

I've seen way too many guys on facebook comment jokingly tagging a friend in regards to a reported rape "hey mate didn't know that you were in the area 😆😜lol". They think it's funny to make a joke out of it.

[jacquesvol]

@ClassyMe

www.spiegel.de/.../...men-post-wwii-a-1021298.html

[jacquesvol]

And if a black or native American girl gets raped, who thinks the cops will even listen?

[--Vi--]

There are always going to be sick people, but as a whole US does not support or accept rape in any way.

[jacquesvol]

@--Vi--
These sick people also become cops and jury members, even judges.
Grab them by the pussy, one said and paid $130k to a porn model. And a big sum to a Playboy nude

[bamesjond0069]

@jacquesvol Lots of people pay porn models to be on their websites and millions of people watch. Don't really see an issue with it. You sound like a prude.