The End Result of "Defund the Police" is not Anarchy or The Purge. It's Federal Police.

[Kiran_Yagami]

I'm not sure why people think anarchy would take over after the crime fighting force of any city was disbanded. In what world would the government stand by and watch a city burn? In reality, if a city refuses to protect its populace, the federal government will step in. Introducing the federal police. Police that answer directly to the federal government. You think the executive branch has power now, wait until the federal police arrive. Think Trump's a dictator? Wait until he controls the police. Then you'll see a dictator. Mayors, governors, city councils, who needs 'em? The federal police are here to save the day. You've removed your city's one and only line of defense and now you have nothing. Everything a federal government could ask for. Know who else was a fan of federal policing? Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong... you know, only the greatest mass murderers in history.

So go ahead. Run outside. Break glass, burn buildings, loot stores, hold those "defund the police!" signs up high, because if you ask for it hard enough you'll get it, but you don't know what you're asking for. Under no circumstances does any national government let a city deteriorate into a lawless wasteland. They'll step in and do the city's job for it if said city abdicates that responsibility. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise. Others who did so either ended up dead or under fascism's heel.

[goaded]

No, it's not, it's local community policing. As created in the early 19th century.

Written in 1829, these principles still hold true.

"4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives."

"5. To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws..."

"6. To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective."

"7. ... the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen..."

"9. ... the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them."

[goaded]

For some reason the link disappeared. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

[Kiran_Yagami]

What you ask for and what you get won't be the same. At least not in my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[goaded]

19th century Brits didn't want see see armed soldiers on the streets, so the police was set up to avoid that image. America went the other way, and the police have tanks. (OK, APC's, don't quibble.)

[goaded]

One last thing (promise!), a video about Camden NJ police:
www.bbc.com/.../what-happened-when-a-city-disbanded-its-police-force

[zagor]

That depends on the community being governed to an enormous extent. If there is substantial organized crime it is likely to fail.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

They're talking about compartmentalizing the police forces in major cities where instead of having a single police department for the whole city, individual districts will have their own precincts. In other words, they're talking about de-centralizing the police force.

What a lowly attempt at fear mongering on your part -_-

[Kiran_Yagami]

What they're talking about and what is actually going to happen aren't the same thing. Police forces are already "decentralized". That's why we have separate bureaus for separate areas. What they're talking about doing is removing the police entirely and replacing them with social programs. IE Minneapolis.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Decentralized versus centralized aren't categorical variables. They fall on a continuum and many people are advocating further decentralization.

[humanearth]

Once they are in place, there no going back. There will there for good. Till a stronger force takes them out.

In WW2 there were the Allied powers. It was Great Britain, France, the Soviet Union, the United States, and China. This group stopped it then.

Who going to save us when Hitler return from the dead in the USA.

I think the world would be totally fucked then.

Like what countries would team up and go against these big countries that won WW2. Because you know, they will stand behind each others back in todays world

[Snakeyes7]

The police IS the federal police, they are partly funded by taxpayers. And yes it will be anarchy, I invite you to look up what happened in Montreal on October 7th, 1969 where the famous Murray-Hill riots took place when the police went on strike for 16 hours.

[Kiran_Yagami]

The police are funded by local city taxes. The difference between the police and federal police will be whose laws they uphold. Right now, city governments and state governments hold a lot of sway over how laws are enforced in their jurisdictions. That's why things like sanctuary cities exist. Remove local police and introduce federal police and sanctuary cities go away over night. So do state rights and constitutions.

[Snakeyes7]

True

[BoountyHunter]

This entire concept of defunding (or abolishing) the police is absolutely ridiculous


much of this movement right now has lost its path
its less about equality and fair treatment
and more about spreading hatred

[goaded]

It depends what you call the police. UK police, for two hundred years, have been more or less successfully part of the community. In the US, police are descended from slave catchers and union busters and sometimes seem little better than gangs, themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles (1829 UK policing principles)
https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded

If we are going to use that standard
why not not discuss Constable Joshua Pratt?
or the history of the Rattlewatch?
or the Pennsylvania State Police?

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded But to be honest
its not a great argument to make

We are not talking about 200 years ago

We are speaking about today

[goaded]

I know we're talking about today, but the principles still stand, influenced modern policing in the US in the 19th century and are still being revisited today.

Did you read them? Was there anything you disagreed with?

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded
Yes considering as someone with a History background
I know better than to judge modern issues with things in the past

SOMEHOW your argument is acceptable
while if a Republican makes the argument that the KKK is a Democratic/Liberal creation... youd be offended... or consider is a fallacy

^ Which it is a fallacy
YES... the Democratic Party controlled the Confederacy... YES it was the Republicans (under Lincoln) who were abolitionists.. and YES.. the far majority of early KKK members were Democrat

but its not a representation of today
of how the parties change

same goes for Police Departments
YES certain departments have a challenging history
YES the United States has a challenging history in regards to Slavery (like nearly every other nation on the planet)
but to judge modern Police Departments through such a lens...
that have undergone constant revisions and restructuring... both internally and through the laws themselves
is a very bad argument

it even ignores the reality that MUCH of this argument is based upon fallacy
25% of Police shootings are Blacks (and Blacks make up nearly 30% of all crimes depending on the type you want to list... ESPECIALLY violent crimes... nearly 50% of murders each year are committed by blacks)
MOST police shootings are of ARMED individuals
and in terms of unarmed... technically MORE white men are shot (and its not even worth reporting... because racism is the narrative)

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded The fact is
some police departments clearly practice a form of prejudice. OR are inherently corrupt
most police departments are not
SO lets deal with them
MOST Cops are good guys

some aren't.. and those SHOULD be dealt with

there is this obsession to exaggerate... or to push narratives that are less based upon equality than hatred

take it from a guy is very Liberal by American standards
and very annoyed with the direction this movement is going

[goaded]

I did say "*sometimes* seem little better than gangs". Obviously, there's no need to de-fund or replace police that aren't broken, but I'm not sure why you think I'm judging anyone by the standards of yesteryear, when I'm just pointing to principles that have stood the test of time, and have been repeatedly referred to when looking at how US police forces should work.

Which of the nine principles do you think aren't applicable any more?

(By the way, The Democrats are not "The Party of the KKK". ↗ )

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded

Never claimed they were
I stated that its a Fallacy that is often used

then it seems we are in agreement?

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded I have clearly stated my position
I don't support the idea of Defunding/Abolishing the Police

I think its a ridiculous concept (and honestly there is no unified message... even politically in the United States they can't agree on what the basic principles of the movement should be

It is clearly that the majority of Police Departments (and Police Officers) are good people
and much of the "Anti Police" message is off base

AND that Historical examples you have listed have little to no application to the modern police force (just as the fact that the many KKK members were Democrats... and that the Republicans were the Abolitionist movement.. have little to no application to race relations between the parties today)

MUCH of the movement today has lost its path
its rioting and looting
tearing down statutes of abolitionists
killing innocents.. destroying their business..
many have hijacked a real movement for personal gain

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded AND
as I stated before

IF we wanted to discipline Police Officers or Police Departments that have clearly misused their power
I am completely for it

They SHOULD be held accountable for their actions

However, I am alongside Bernie Sanders when I don't support the idea of Defunding or Abolishing the Police Departments

there are other issues we can tackle that will deal with this
FOR ONE
Police Departments can often avoid accountability

instead we should offer better pay... and far better training...
^ an issue in many departments is low pay and poor training (which obviously doesn't help in moments where deescalation is needed)

We should emphasis the actual job of Police Officers.. because they often play an extreme amount of rolls..
this creates a lot of issues where the Police are required to do jobs that aren't necessarily part of the training.

there are MANY things we can do

Defunding/Abolishing (especially in regards to what is being asked by protesters) is not the answer.

[BoountyHunter]

meant to add "we can create independent review boards" after the police accountability statement

[goaded]

I know the Democrats aren't the party of the KKK, that's why I wrote that Take!

I think we agree that not all police forces need to be disbanded, but part of the "defunding" movement is to reduce the amount of military equipment, which I think is reasonable, and the principles from the Metropolitan Police make a lot of sense, independent of the country or century.

[BoountyHunter]

@goaded
Yes, its why I used it as a Fallacy
just because most KKK members were historically Democrats
doesn't make the KKK part of the Democratic Party (or even created by it)
its just historically the Democratic Party held completely different standards than they do today (even 20 years ago.. there were "Southern Democrats"... a more Conservative Arm of the Party... which doesn't really exist anymore)

Most people don't recognize that the Republican and Democratic Parties have gone through major shifts
and werent actually standards of a single ideology (like they seem to be today)
even 100 years ago
both Parties had their own Liberal and Conservative wings

but its helpful for the Republicans to call it out.. it fits the narrative they want to push that the Democratic Party is corrupt and racist.. and not good for the American people.

I think the issue is that MUCH of the narrative being pushed today isn't about allocation of funds.. but about the actual dismantling of police departments
even some political leaders have gotten behind the movement (obviously for votes)
though I think many recognize that the Abolish/Defunding ideology isn't a realistic one
ALLOCATION is acceptable
but isn't a strong enough narrative to create an outcry

[Surely]

So True.
The Devil you could get, might be worse then the Devil you already have!
Also, if President Trump declares Martial Law, there will be no election until it is lifted.

[Thatsamazing]

No it isn't, federal police already exist, you're a moron, please don't reproduce.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/vasectomy/how-do-i-get-vasectomy

[youknowbetter]

Yeah let’s go ahead with “defund the police”. We will look you in with the republic of Chaz. We aren’t giving you any supplies though. You are supposed to be autonomous. Let’s see if you make it 3 months.

[Thatsamazing]

@youknowbetter Let's go ahead with writing utter nonsense, I guess. Would be better to avoid that course of action, but hey, you're living dangerously here I see. You're just as stupid as ^ the OP is, apparently. Good work out there.

[Kiran_Yagami]

The FBI is not the federal police. I'd thank you for trying, but you didn't.

[Thatsamazing]

... Yes, they literally are, you're a moron, please don't reproduce.

Here, let me help you: www.plannedparenthood.org/.../how-do-i-get-vasectomy

[masonova1]

We have federal police already. It's called a military. They just don't do their policing here, they prefer to do it on backwater sandpits in the Middle East.

[Radio4men]

If that happens welcome to HELL!

[not329446]

It lets people know how many idiots are out there.