"Just be kind" is not a worldview

[007kingifrit]

I see it all the time especially among young women they just seek to be kind and any situation where they are being kind they declare themselves doing the right thing.....but that's a very short sighted and hedonistic way of thinking. and its always a lie.

the 2nd law of thermodynamics is called entropy: entropy states every action MUST ALWAYS destroy more than it creates. on a social level this means every action must ALWAYS hurt someone....the question then becomes.....who.

If we look hard enough we see every action we take does harm to someone somewhere. this is unavoidable and so "just be kind" is not a complete adult view of the world because we will eventually find we are in a situation where being kind to one person inevitably hurts another...then what do those just be kind people do?

I don't trust or like people whose only view is to just be kind. They will always make the wrong choices and not think about the greater good or the wellbeing of others beyond short sighted interactions.

[Silas_153]

"The 2nd law of thermodynamics is called entropy: entropy states every action MUST ALWAYS destroy more than it creates"

You clearly don't understand the Second Law, which is that within any closed system the overall level of entropy will inevitably increase, until such time that the system in question is no longer closed and allows for the input of energy from outside. It's not about every action destroying more than it creates, which is clearly and obviously false, as can be seen here on Earth, a system that is not closed (it receives most of its energy from the sun, but also from beneath the crust in the mantle and core, the molten iron being responsible for the planet's magnetosphere).

[007kingifrit]

entropy can be worded in many different ways, you just said the same thing but in a more arrogant and regurgitated fashion

all systems are ultimately closed

[Silas_153]

(sigh) No, they're not. The Earth, taken as a whole, is open to influences from beyond it. Example: the Sun, as I pointed out before. If Earth were a closed system, we would not even be here to discuss the issue, because there would be no life anywhere.

[007kingifrit]

and the earth isn't a system on its own...

[Silas_153]

And why not?

[007kingifrit]

because it depends on outside factors... the sun. so its not a system

there are no closed systems, didn't you learn that in your physics classes as i did? the concept of a closed system is just a teaching tool we use to simplify the world for children in class

you weren't supposed to take the simplification and take it as fact

[Silas_153]

So we basically agree that the Earth is a system that is open to outside influences. Good.

[007kingifrit]

buuuuuuuut the universe as a whole has no outside influence and eventually will use up all those resources that it can

so my explanation of entropy as "eventually everything destroys more than it creates" is inevitably true

[OlderAndWiser]

"Just always be kind" is a convenient excuse to avoid making decisions for which you may be held accountable, and because the person is being "nice," it almost says "and don't you dare criticize me because I'm being nice!"

There were plenty of nice people killed on September 11, 2001.

[007kingifrit]

exactly, its a coward's position

[Sweetener_]

I believe that it is important to be kind even to those who hurt you, because at the end the day some might just be hurt and bitter inside so they take out that hurt/bitterness out on people. So it's important to be kind to them and show them love.

But there has to be a balance, just because someone is bitter inside doesn't mean we always have to be kind to them, sometimes we just have to put them in their place, which might not be too kind, but it has to be done.

[007kingifrit]

the greatest wisdom comes from defeat. sometimes we must break people so they can be fixed

[DianaWest]

no way in hell am i going to be kind to an asshole.

[Sweetener_]

Suit yourself.

[Azura_88]

I don't respect fake kind people who are only kind to get 'friends' on their side.
Unfortunately all my family taught me is be kind, be obedient. Before that, I was a badass who will literally say anything to anyone or won't think much about others.
I guess I became empathetic after I turned 7.
But again after facing selfish and untrustworthy assholes I stopped being kind. I am only kind to those who genuinely need help and healing.

[Azura_88]

Currently I'm neither too kind, nor too mean. I'm just balanced. Anything of too much won't do good to anyone or yourself. Balance is the key.

[Sarahnah]

I am assuming this is being directed at me because you disliked my comment and made your first sentence about discrediting what I just said.

There's a difference between being "fake kind" as you put it, and the simple act of not being a douche for the heck of it! You are never going to know who will be a "selfish and untrustworthy asshole" or who's going to be someone who "genuinely needs help and healing" until you actually get to know them better. And the best way to do that? Be kind. You can throw empathy and understanding out the window if you'd like, but realize that sometimes all this does is just push people away and invite trouble.

[Azura_88]

@Sarahnah as i said I'm neither too kind nor too mean to someone. I just read that line "people side with victim, so they will side with kind people" that looked manipulative. But yes genuine kindness or when you simply wanna avoid conflict is totally okay. I have seen people who pretend to be kind in the beginning but then they exploit the hell out of those who buy their act.

[007kingifrit]

@Sarahnah it is important to be unkind sometimes though. the greatest wisdom comes from defeat. helping others feel defeated can teach them important life lessons

if you are just being kind to be kind without a deeper philosophy that could be a problem. you wouldn't want to "go along to get along" and let bad things or things you don't agree with stand as they are

[Sarahnah]

Yeah it sounds manipulative, but it's true. People are less likely to turn against you if you aren't being a jerk for no reason. It's common sense actually, I guess I just worded it weirdly. Pretending to be kind isn't kindness lol.

And like I said, sometimes you do need to put down your foot to act mean and intentionally push people away. Bad people do exist. So letting them walk all over you isn't a good idea either. I share your view that balance is necessary.

[Sarahnah]

@007kingifrit That's true. But having people turn on you could potentially have the opposite effect. If you want people to adopt your ideas and be on your side, going out of your way to be unkind and hurting others while they didn't directly hurt you first isn't exactly a good idea.

[Azura_88]

@Sarahnah yes I agree with the rest of your answer.

[Azura_88]

I understand sometimes we word it and the others misunderstand it. But we're cool :)

[EternallyCorrect]

100%. What this mentality actually leads to is a complete disregard for the collective health of society. "Live and let live" is destructive to society. The idea that everybody should be able to do whatever they want "as long as they're not hurting anybody" and the removal of shame hurts society, and therefore hurts people indirectly. It also leads to these same people complaining about things which are caused by this mentality, without any idea about cause and effect.

[007kingifrit]

that's right, every action does harm somewhere so its a short sighted ideology to seek to do no harm

[Sarahnah]

Being kind is usually the better option because it helps avoid conflicts. If you act like a bad person, people WILL turn on you, no matter how much you think you are being mean for the "greater good". Everyone wants to side with the victim, and being nice is just one way of getting people to side with you and support you.

Of course being kind and respectful does not mean that you have to say yes to everything and let people walk all over you. You still have to put your foot down at times. Just don't be an aggressor, unless you're just asking to make enemies left and right.

[Anonymous]

okay. I say “I love potatoes” how does that action destroy more than it creates?

Yea I’m serious

[007kingifrit]

1. small actions have small impacts so the damage from such a small action will be small, but yes it does exist.

here are some imaginative ways it might do harm
* companies that sell products not made from potatoes will make less money from you and those around you
* people who can't eat potatoes for health reasons will feel left out
* fat people who over hear might be encouraged to consume the starchy food and die sooner

[Opinion Owner]

nice numbering

1. Companies that sell products not made from potatoes aren't going to give a damn, this is just me saying it to my friend in private, assume this hypothetical henceforth

2. My friend can eat potatoes, they do not have a health condition preventing potato consumption

3. My friend is not fat, he actually also enjoys potatoes.

Got any more?

[007kingifrit]

you're intentionally trying to miss the point

[Opinion Owner]

Not an argument. No I’m not. I’m trying to expose your thinking for what it is, flawed

[007kingifrit]

well its not flawed, you just ignored the fundamental truth in it

every action MUST cause harm.

you also failed at #1. its not about if companies care or not, its about if they are hurt or not... and they are. you changed the premise of the debate. moving the goalpost fallacy

[Opinion Owner]

Okay so explain to me how the company is hurt in my hypothetical scenario between two healthy friends

[007kingifrit]

the company may get less business as you advertise for potatoes

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah see you had to modify the situation to suite your argument. I don’t advertise for fking potatoes.

[007kingifrit]

saying "i like potatoes" is advertisement

i didn't change the argument, i used a synonym

[Opinion Owner]

No it’s not. Having a conversation with one friend about my love for potatoes is not advertisement as he also already loves them, they aren’t going to sell any more or less potatoes

Goodbye

[007kingifrit]

like i said, you keep looking for reasons to ignore the ultimate truth i have said

you also keep changing and adding parameters to your argument,

YES it is an advertisement, even if he already likes them, as it encourages him not to change his mind

accept that you are wrong child

[Opinion Owner]

LOL I haven’t changed shit, you keep changing it and I have to revert it. This situation has zero impact on the potato company, and if it does, it’s a positive impact.

[Unbeatable]

i only trust those willing to make enemies

[007kingifrit]

that's right, people with integrity are willing to be disliked

[Azura_88]

Exactly they are in the category of "genuine nice people". But the fake kind people will only be kind so that other's will side with them. One girl literally said that "people side with victim and so do they with kind people ". That's manipulative..

[karaspara]

Hard to argue with that

[007kingifrit]

i don't expect many will argue against it, rather i think they will run away from this ugly truth and not respond. its disappointing how many bad educators taught kids "just be kind"

[karaspara]

To be honest tlhey wouldn't last 5 minutes in the uk

[007kingifrit]

why? would they wither before the dry British sense of humor?

[wickhamhayls]

this assumes that bad acts can lead or should lead to good situations. that's a belief and not a fact.

[Andres77]

Pretty cynical.
Being kind doesn't have to hurt anyone.

[007kingifrit]

mathematically speaking every action hurts someone somewhere

more importantly its wrong to use kindness as a worldview. its hedonistic and short sighted. its not really doing good, its feeling good.

[Andres77]

Cynical and tainted.
Love and sacrifice and choosing to be kind... it's a choice.
I'm not going to convince you.
You're whack.
Saying kindness is hedonistic is as twisted as eugenics and justifying murder as helping the "green movement".
You're intelligent and wicked.
But you take pride in that, don't you, boy?

[007kingifrit]

kindness must be in service of something. if you just have kindness as your end goal then yes THAT is hedonistic

[Andres77]

You're making shit up... just stop.

[007kingifrit]

this is a philosophical conversation, making things up is perfectly acceptable.

i sense you aren't articulating yourself well

[Andres77]

🙄...

[FlowerSeeds]

I'm all for it and I agree teehee^^

[StunningANDbrave]

Completely agree

[Gray-Wisp]

Harm degenerates.

[007kingifrit]

life is harm, harm is not optional

[Gray-Wisp]

I mean to specifically aim harm at degenerates. We need to step up our game.

[anylolone]

Simple worldviews are still worldviews.

[007kingifrit]

ITS SIMPLE, but not a worldview. in order to be a WORLDview it must encompass all things. just be kind cannot encompass all things and is thus not a world view

[anylolone]

Some people's view of the world is very simplistic.
Manicheism was a religion.

[007kingifrit]

you didn't really respond to what i said. its not the simplicity of "just be kind" that makes it wrong. its that it can't answer all questions

[anylolone]

Some world views answer no questions, no world view answers all questions, no world view even knows all questions. And I'm not saying you have to know all questions to being able to answer them if provided, but you need to know them in order to be sure you even could answer them.

[007kingifrit]

every worldivew must answer all questions. its a guide on how to live

[anylolone]

No worldview can be verified to answer all questions.

Not all guides are good guides.

[007kingifrit]

if it doesn't answer all questions its not a worldview

[JustMe62]

Right on.