My "Soberer" Thoughts on Will Smith and Chris Rock

[HighlyVolatile]

I seem to have pitted myself against so many people on this site including many I respect by having the thought that Will Smith did nothing particularly wrong -- excessive, definitely -- but not wrong in principle in trying to defend his wife.

In my defense, I was not aware of all this history between him and Jada; I've never been the type to pay so much attention to celebrity gossip let alone the type to either condemn or worship celebrities. I had a career in Hollywood and I just saw celebrities like ordinary people; whatever tendency I had to be star-struck quickly went away after working with many of them. I also know firsthand how it's like to have little snippets of our lives broadcast to so many people while they fail to see everything else going on behind the scenes, and so I've become very slow and reluctant to judge celebrities in this way.

I started with just the face value of picturing what it was like if a man -- and I failed to even fully imagine a comedy roast -- made a joke at the expense of my wife on some condition she couldn't help, and I thought what Will Smith did in retaliation was within reason.

Especially in the presence of cancel culture, I thought what he did was at least antithetical to that. He didn't gossip behind Chris Rock's back, he didn't seek to recruit allies to ruin Chris Rock's career; he just went up there and slapped him in front of everyone -- rash, definitely, but "honorable" as I or maybe Japanese in general tend to see it (we value honor a lot here). My wife and family here in Japan also agree with me. They don't see what Will Smith did as a big deal and definitely not worth suiting him for $200 million, so there might also be a cultural aspect here as well.

I think a lot of people from other parts of the world might see honor and dignity as something foolish to dig our grave upon; I see it like there's no better way to die. I would be so fortunate if I could die this way tomorrow rather than with dishonor being a burden to others on some death bed.

But I figure when 99% of people -- including many I respect -- believe something I think is right -- in principle -- is so wrong, I figure I'm the fool in this situation. So I've been trying to reflect on that and see how I'm the fool here in thinking this is not a big deal and maybe even right in principle. I'm starting to become persuaded so I'll hope the people I respect on here forgive my stubborn resistance at first. I've always repeated on this site that I'm a barbarian in my thinking and probably born in the wrong century.

One thing I've learned is that I should not be brought to a comedy roast together with my wife until I adjust my ideals, since I don't think I'm yet able to separate a man insulting my wife on the streets from a comedian doing it at a roast!

Fundamentally my notions of right and wrong are blurry and sometimes at odds with each other. For example, I've been arrested for disorderly conduct on behalf of protecting a man from a downright bully, and I threw my share of insults and counter-punches at the bully to protect him. I still think that was innately right with what I did even though I had to spend an overnight in jail for it.

At the same time, I think I should have been thrown in jail because violent and barbaric people like me, regardless of their motivations, should not exist in an ideal society. We're supposed to become extinct even if we're motivated by protecting others. So I find myself at a weird and seemingly contradictory crossroads of wanting to defend the police who threw me in jail as well as wanting to defend myself for protecting someone else from being bullied; I'm supposed to suffer for my beliefs. As I said, I was born in the wrong century.

At the end of the day I want to be a good man in my own way while my kind works towards extinction and to protect the people I love from harm's way, and I at least don't believe in gossiping and backstabbing as a means to do this as with my gripes with cancel culture.

I also might have been pushed to a more extremist mindset because I encounter so many types on here who would label me simp for simply loving my wife and wanting to protect and guide her away from harm's way. Sometimes I feel like I'm on "team protector" vs. the incels, male feminists, female feminists, MGTOWs, MRAs, what have you still valuing the old school ideals of a man as a leader, protector, and provider prone to err that way than the other way of abandoning women. I prefer to err on the side and die that way as a leader and protector and provider than the other way. I see extreme dichotomies at times pushing me to the extremities of that leader and protector side when the healthy balance for men is probably somewhere in the middle.

But wisdom comes very slowly to me, and I'm still learning, and I hope people will forgive me for still having much to learn in this respect. I also hope people can forgive Will Smith in that way because I might not approve of his relationship from what I can see of it with Jada (not to mention how his ego shoves Jaden in the spotlight with obnoxious films like After Earth) because I don't see how a culture without forgiveness can manage to help us become any better.

The biggest problem I find with cancel culture and outrage culture, in general, is that it leaves very little room for mutual understanding and forgiveness. This is what I oppose most even if I have a great deal of work ahead of me to become a properly civilized member of society.

[NathanDavis]

one problem with this approach of "defending your wife's honor"

actually two problems... it wasn't genuine, it was not his first reaction, but let's assume it was indeed to protect her honor and dignity

it was still the most foolish thing to do, because... from one mild, yet out of line joke that would have been forgotten in less than 24 hours... the only thing he gained, was to make Jada the target of hundreds of actually cruel, nasty, disgusting jokes, criticism and hatred from thousands of people, including many professional comedians that are their colleagues

now, has Will Smith gone after each and every comedian or celebrity who know is actually trying to hurt his wife and make her look awful, no he is not? is he going to do it? of course he will not, at least not with the ones who would fight back, that is for sure

now, while I understand your views and concepts about honor and dignity... I also think that our honor can also be our choice, we can choose to be above the insults and offenses thrown at us... or you can choose to go down to their level, and do even worse and go lower... like Will foolishly did, this time, and once you do that, your honor and dignity are just gone by your own actions, rather than the "attacks" from others and to me, that is way way worse

[HighlyVolatile]

Cheers! One of the biggest disconnects I realized is the comedy roast thing. The problem I find with insults thrown at us is that I should take it. I can work to become a better man this way. But I don't expect that of the people I love, like my wife or children. That's not to infantilize them. They probably can take it, and I encourage them to take it because I might die at any given point and I won't be around to protect them. But I don't expect them to take it as I expect me to take it if that makes sense.

[HighlyVolatile]

Sometimes I think I've revolved my whole life around picking a good spot for my grave if you know what I mean. Like how can I die in a good way? So all the advice on foolishness and recklessness sometimes flies past me, because I figure our values and ideals are something very different. It's somehow divorced from the consequences because I don't know what the actual consequences will be. All I tend to know for certain at the end of the day is if I acted in a way according to my notions of honor or not, regardless of the consequences. And if worst comes to worst, I'd rather die being an honorable idiot than the widest man deviating from what I consider to be honorable. Ned Stark, you know! :-D

[HighlyVolatile]

* wisest

[NathanDavis]

yes, I see that, but... this is a matter of perception, everyone, including Will Smith took that joke for what it actually was... just a mild joke with no real malice nor the intention to insult

and it was done within a context that has this to expect...

the reality of things is that, a joke was assumed to be an insult, and over that insult... it was decided that assault was justified

this was a foolish, selfish and entitled wrongdoing careless reaction that didn't do any good to nobody

[HighlyVolatile]

I think I agree the bulk of me agrees with you! I just need to fix the remaining side that doesn't. :-D

[HighlyVolatile]

But I really appreciate your thoughts on this. They help me to strive to become a better man. Cheers, my friend! 🍻 🍻 🍻

[Apulu_3]

I guess Pride and Respect is something very important in Asia. Like that mentality of 'I will rather die than loose all my respect". Over here too people are taking side of Will Smith. It is not only you but other people I know are also like "If someone insults my wife then they are getting a punch by me".

For me from what I know about Will Smith's relationship life and about this incident I will say both of them are at fault but ego is more towards Will Smith's wife. You can see Will Smith laughing before being instructed by his wife to give him a slap. There was no need to making a joke on someone's health condition as it is something which isn't funny and it may hurt the victim. There was no need to acting violently over a joke too knowing that it is a joke and Chris is a Comedian being paid for that. What I liked about the situation is that Chris wasn't an angry Chilli pepper and continued like nothing happened and Will was not that egoist and asked for forgiveness.

[HighlyVolatile]

One thing I think is maybe water under the bridge. The people that bother me most are the Academy hosts who just let Will Smith return to his suit, and while I wasn't aware of it at first when I tried to defend him, award him and let him have his acceptance speech. Simply escorting him from the premises for what he did should have been punishment enough as I see it. A lot of people failed to take proper action here.

[HighlyVolatile]

* [...] to his seat, sorry!

[Apulu_3]

Yeah they really messed up but I didn't added it because what do you even expect from the Hosts. They probably wanted this thing to be viral for popularity and it is clear because no action was taken in correct time.

[HighlyVolatile]

I think you're very wise far beyond your years. I might have to start taking notes!

[Apulu_3]

Haha thank you :)

[Apulu_3]

Thanks for the MHO :)

[Lliam]

I don't watch TV, so I wouldn't have even known about that nonsense if it hadn't gone viral on mainstream and caused so many people, consequently, to talk about it. I actually heard about it on GAG. As far as I'm concerned, it's just meaningless noise.

But now that I have read about it, I do have some thoughts.
1) Chris Rock didn't even write the joke, so he didn't deserve the slap.
2) The spin is that it was a jab at Jada's alopecia. But Chris didn't mention alopecia. The joke referenced Jada's buzz cut and compared it to bad ass Demi Moore's hair cut in GI Jane. How was that insulting?
3) Smith initially laughed. He even stifled a laugh on the way back to his seat after the slap, but then sat there acting all tough, playing the role of fierce defender, shouting "Keep my wife's name out of your mouth!" Wow, how gangsta.
4) If the slap wasn't a staged hoax, it was cowardly. Chris Rock was smiling and greeting him when he walked up. Then, without warning, Smith sucker punched him with a sissy slap. It wasn't even a manly slap.
5) If he had pulled that shit on someone else, in a different setting, he would have gotten his teeth knocked out because ain't no street fighter. He's a pampered poser.
6) The event was sponsored by Pfizer, who just happens to be coming out with a new alopecia drug. So the stunt sparked conversation about alopecia and generated sympathy for the suffering it causes to people who have it. Most TV watching idiots probably never heard of alopecia before. But now they have.
7) Smith's crying speech about his "calling" looked and sounded like some TV evangelist bullshit. He probably practiced it before the event.
8) What would the reaction have been if the person who told the joke was a woman. Would people still be defending Smith if he slapped her? And if he slapped a BLACK woman, there would have been riots. Or is it okay for black men to slap black women?

If the slap was real, Smith should have been charged with assault and hauled off. Oh, but rich people don't fall under the same rules as peons.

I suspect that the stunt was scripted, if not to raise awareness for Pfizer's benefit, then to boost ratings for the show. Although, now I hear that Smith just resigned from the Academy. Is that also part of the script, to make his actions look like they were spontaneous? Is it calculated to gain sympathy? Gee, he won't be able to screen films in consideration or vote for potential award nominees, but that won't stop him from acting, being nominated, or attending any more awards ceremonies.

Will Smith wasn't defending his wife's honor. Considering her marital indiscretions, she has no honor. Now, neither does Will Smith.

A lady friend of mine lost ALL of her hair due to alopecia. Her entire head is shiny. Jada has a tiny bare patch. Boo hoo hoo for her.

[HighlyVolatile]

I think one of my hurdles is that I don't mind going to battle over a foolish misunderstanding -- as long as we do with honor! The size difference is also confusing to me. I don't have Will Smith's size. I'm much closer to Chris Rock.

So typically if I were to slap a man, I'd have to reach up, not down. If it was a much smaller man or woman than me that I thought ill-equipped to defend themselves, I think I'd be much gentler, maybe even not resort to something physical.

Perhaps snatch the microphone away and talk about alopecia.

[HighlyVolatile]

That besides the comedy roast part might be what's really throwing me off. All the altercations and fights I got into in the past were with men much bigger than me. Chris Rock might be like a woman to Will Smith given that he's so much smaller. Even according to my ideal and even granting Will Smith the most leniency in defending his wife, maybe slapping him there is wrong there. That's something I have little experience in as just one 173cm tall is that the man insulting or harassing my wife is so much smaller and weaker than me. I'm a little bit confused and lacking in experience about what to do there.

[HighlyVolatile]

Suppose the size of these two men were reversed, and it was Will Smith joking about Chris Rock's wife, and Chris Rock who reached up, not down, to slap him. And this was on the streets, not at a comedy roast. At least that would be honorable, no?

[Lliam]

If some guy was making intentionally derogatory, demeaning, offensive jokes about my wife in front of her face, I'd give him a slap that would knock him down or simply punch his lights out. But that's an entirely different scenario.

[ohshee]

I thank you for your words they are very real and true and in any other setting I believe in your words. . But with this story there is way more to it

First as celebrities first get to the red carpet they all have their pictures taken

Look at the pictures of Will Smith and Jada Will Smith you can look on his face he was pissed off before Chris Rock even said anything it looks to me as if Will Smith was pissed off the moment he got to the red carpet he had an attitude you could clearly see on his face that something was bothering him he was not happy

S to walk up in a middle of a crowded room where everybody is sitting there knowing but you're going to throw a punch as hard as you can with an open fist is still a sucker punch Chris Rock was a smart man by not jumping down Will Smith's throat that was a sucker punched Will Smith knowing Chris Rock was not going to jeopardize his career his name and not falling into the Trap of Will Smith because that's what Will Smith wanted that way it would have been Chris Rock's fault somehow Will Smith sucker-punched him on national TV all over the world and in front of all their peers

That was totally wrong and uncalled for
When Chris Rock does any type of show you know he's going to get up there and be a comedian that's a part of his act but I'm sure Chris Rock didn't even write that joke

Whatever happens to Will Smith he deserves it just because of the way that he went about the whole thing if you get sued for 200 million dollars so be it I hope he does I hope a lot more things happen to him because he was wrong and doing what he did how we did it where he did it when he did it

As for you there's no shame inputting words to your thoughts I believe in being honorable I believe in doing the right thing Will Smith was not being honorable Will Smith was angry before he even got to the Oscars and whatever it was you can see that in his face when they had their picture taken I honestly believe in your words there's a time and a place for everything Will Smith was wrong I believe your words are right but it's two different stories it could have been any other scenario and I would I would be right there with you because I do believe your logic and your thinking so don't fall into the Trap that you might be wrong because you are right on so many different levels you're just wrong because of the scenario and that's just my opinion that doesn't mean that I'm right by saying that
There is no shame feeling what you feel and putting your thoughts into words I thank you for your words

I think you because you're man enough to come back and be honest about everything that you saw and everything that you felt

Will Smith is not even a man man enough to do that like I said he was angry before he even got there and he could not only apologize to Chris Rock actually it should have just never happen but he could walk that and said you know what I was pissed off before I even got here they took it out on Chris Rock I deserve everything that I get disbarred from the academy he's no more a part of that he should be disbarred from everything he should be used as an example the way that our world is today and where we are all headed we cannot tolerate this as a human race we need to all wake up because that's where our world is headed Barbarian we cannot allow this to happen any longer we need to all wake up and start changing our world for the better place not for what the rich people that leak the ones that are destroying the world because they think they're destroyed us the little people but they are wrong they're going to fail we little people will win we have a higher power that we believe in that is on our side he will guide us all I think you for your words

[Joshua1982]

Tldr I stopped when I seen will was out of line. I know this is not "yo momma " crap from elementary school trying to get a rise type of thing but that's not toxic masculinity that will displayed. Too much tolerance of," oh it wasn't like that" misdirection. He stood up for his beliefs and acted accordingly. Americans would not be viewed as we are if more of us did the same as will did. I'm not saying become a spouse abuser but certainly make your stand be known.

[Massageman]

Your explanation is the closest one to the way I felt about the whole shebang, so you are not alone- there are at least TWO of us!
I'm not really all that interested in the "stars"- I don't run out and buy a new jock strap just because "Oprah likes it"- I don't cook any 45 ingredient recipes because "Martha says it's a 'good thing' "- and I really don't care if stars or athletes get $3M per movie or game, or $300. In too many cases, the money just turns them into fools anyway, and, broke fools in many cases.
Yes, Smith went overboard. But as you say, he didn't gossip, he didn't spread rumors, he just slapped rock, apparently after seeing his wife trying to stifle her pained expression. The "academy's" ten-year banishment of Smith was weird - he can't visit/vote/dine/blah-blah-blah with the academy, but he can still win the award from which he was banished to be a part of ? very weird - - - (sorry about the dangling preposition).

ref: Prov 21: 20, and others. The wise person uses their wealth with foresight and restraint, also being generous to those in need. The fool uses it in self-indulgence.

[bamesjond0069]

Men who defend their womens honor aren't letting his wife sleep around, have a famous wife who attends public events centered around comedy roasts. This makes him a cuck and a simp and basically a total loser.

If his wife was a normal civilian faithful to her husband and at home cooking dinner for their kids and some guy looked up his wife and came up in Wills face saying your wife is a piece of shit disgusting town slut. Then Will smacked him thats a different story and honorable.

To protect a modern womans honor is simping and promotion of cuckoldry. That is not honor nor respect. Its embarrassing and laughable.

Lets make it simple. Your wife is a nice lady. Someone says she's a slut. She is not. Smack them is honorable. Now the other option is your wife regularly cuckolds you with a guy named John. John says he fucked your wife last night. You know its true. Smacking him is simping and the opposite of honorable.

[HighlyVolatile]

Makes sense! I didn't realize his history with Jada when I first commented in response to a video clip asking our thoughts. I also think I made a mistake of failing to distinguish a man saying this on the streets from a comedy roast.

[hahahmm]

Yes but a real man would not stay with a woman who is sleeping around on him so he would never be in the situation of the wife's boyfriend talking smack about current events. Ha ha ha.

[LovingLoverReturned]

Beautiful My take.
Will Smith did not hurt Chris Rock. Chris rock's tickets sold out thanks to Will Smith's slap. Will Smith hurt his family's reputation.

These people are more likely to accept emotional abuse and bullying with their free speech than a slap.

My favorite things you said:
1) also know firsthand how it's like to have little snippets of our lives broadcast to so many people while they fail to see everything else going on behind the scenes, and so I've become very slow and reluctant to judge celebrities in this way.

2) because I don't see how a culture without forgiveness can manage to help us become any better.

[Joshua1982]

The inability to express simple emotions like anger and people being ridiculed for it is exactly why things like school shootings and the like take place. Not a vent to release in sight leads to pressures unknown by many. It will manifest in one way or another. Sad is the human condition when the Ostracization of validation of one's expression of a simple emotion results in such.

[boggboss]

Ayy it's not biggi man I was in a opposing camp of understanding why he did it but still believing it was wrong and it is just that in the context of where he was no a comedy club but in a event where a comedian is making jokes it was a massive overstep I agree the joke was in poor taste but that ehat ut was a joke not a insult I do believe if it was on street that is another thing but thats where the lines on right and wrong blur

[HighlyVolatile]

Cheers! Maybe I at least need to learn the difference from the streets. It's like the more rational part of my brain if there exists any hope should at least distinguish a comedy roast from the streets.

[RagnarRedbeard]

You say that people like you don't belong in an ideal society, but what is ideal? I definitely don't think that modern Western culture is ideal, or that we're headed towards an ideal society. The ideal man in Western, civilised culture is an emasculated, passive man, perhaps even cowardly man without a sense of honour. That's why most people will disagree with you, and with Will's actions.

[t-8900]

His wife openly cheated on him, she has no honor to defend. He's still with her, he has no honor left. This was just a broken cuck who is ruled but his cheating ho wife, nothing more. He's weak and a fool.

[Andres77]

Here's my question.
Will Jada stay with Will?
Here's an opportunity to stand by her man.
Will apologized thoroughly.
I want to see what Jada does now.

[HighlyVolatile]

I've learned so much more about their relationship since the incident and watched video clips people were showing me. I'm starting to think Will is being strung along by a most unpleasant woman, and maybe trying too hard to protect a wounded ego. Just some of the things that Jada has said that I saw herself say in videos were so cringe-worthy for a man to stick to her side (I value loyalty, but not blind loyalty). I feel strange prying into these celebrity relationships; yet with Will Smith and his family, they always seemed to broadcast it so publicly.

[Andres77]

I wish nothing bad any any of his family. The act was SO public so the consequences have to be AS public.
Here's an opportunity for their family to reevaluate and readjust and heal.
My daughters like Willow's music.
I hope this doesn't hurt her career.
The boy, I don't know what he's doing but I hope this doesn't define him.
Denzel Washington and Tyler Perry hopefully will continue to be mentors for Will and he'll come out on top after awhile.
If he continues in humility then he'll be fine.
If he or Jada start playing victim... it's over for both.
Anyway, I participated in your voice recording app post two weeks ago.
I thought that would pick up steam.

[msc545]

She could and should have protected her own "honor", such as it might be. Will Smith is a cuck, and the slap was really meant for his wife who made him a cuck, not for Chris Rock.

A classic and sad case of displacement of anger.

Your insistence on your right to engage in violence for reasons of "honor" is likely to land you in jail again for a much longer time, or worse.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

Listen.. there are only two facts of note in this situation.

Will is a cuck.
Jada is a baldie.

That's it. Insert laugh track here. Good night everyone. Moving the fuck on. 😒

[888theGreat]

Is this the same Japanese culture that invaded China cutting a lot of their heads off in 1940's?

[HighlyVolatile]

Yes. I think I so! Also cannibalism.

[HighlyVolatile]

I'm guessing with you guys that you are all male feminists by now?

[888theGreat]

not me

[HighlyVolatile]

Yeah, I'm just fucking with you. Cheers! But I'm still down to cut some heads off.

[Anonymous]

Dude the will smith thing was all a distraction.
Theyre distracting y’all from the food shortages

[msc545]

Crazy talk.

[Anonymous]

I'm getting really sick and tired of hearing about Will Smith and Chris Rock. This is getting really annoying now. This is old news now.😡🙄😡🙄

[Joshua1982]

Frankly I think Chris Rock got off too easy.

[EzNamirimEzDibirim]

Good mytake

[Anonymous]

Good take.