An open letter addressed to all those who think Feminism is overrated (Page 2)
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I've heard of some of these things about India but I didn't know if it was true or not. I think it's really sad that a country with such a beautiful and rich history still has social problems like that. I saw a documentary once called "Born into Brothels" that was about the children of women who work in the brothels of the Red Light District in Kolkata. They basically have no future because they were born to "working women." Schools didn't want to accept them, the girls were expected to "work" as soon as they reached puberty, it was probably the saddest video I have seen.
some of them go to schools, but not normal ones. there are special schools for them. there is always a stigma attached to it. many economically backward families sell their daughters. trafficking exists even now.
even in the 60's, actresses with really poor backgrounds had to act. it was considered as good as prostitution.
and child marriage still happens in really remote villages. and underage women get pregnant, when they are clearly not ready, emotionally or physically
ohhh you're an editor now? interesting...
sorry don't mind me lol
@Toad-1 yeah, I have been for a while now. Lol
What is the Editor status for?
@Toadette it just means the myTakes I write will be automatically promoted. That's all.
Oh ok. Thanks for explaining.
Equal rights is great for everyone regardless of sex. Yet in all fairness some of these so called "feminist movements" are just plain bitc****" Where some of these women in western societies will chew a man up and spit him out just because he opened the door for her.
Agreed, we need sensible HUMAN rights advocates, not radical movements that just want to oppress a different section of the population!
You need an equality movement in your country not Feminism!
Feminism might help fix some of the problems you listed but it will also go waaay to far as it has in every country that has adopted it and will create huge systemic problems that will take decades, or longer, to fix.
The goal should be to improve life for everyone, not just 1 demographic. To do this you have to see the ways in which everyone is harmed not just how 1 group is harmed.
Here Here! 100% accurate!
Thank god feminism is not in India.
Such unsophisticated wannabe type of girls don't know that it'd exacerbate the current situation of the country.
Egalitarianism is a great weapon to deal with them. Either they don't know about it (as I told you that they're ignorant) or they would get silent because they just don't want equality AT ALL.
I support women empowerment but I'd never allow foreign garbage to enter in my country.
It's not overrated, I agree. It's garbage!
"Ever heard of men being acid-attacked or domestically assaulted?"
LMAO! Man haters. See, these are feminists.
how exactly will it exacerbate the current situation? i am bothered and i want to vent out. can i not?
Feminism is not the right way to deal with it. Look at the west, humiliated.
I can understand your feelings and the things you mentioned, actually happen in our country. But never expect feminism to ameliorate the things.
so what do you suggest we should do? how do you think women can be empowered?
men and women have grown up seeing their mothers ill-treated. even women don't realise they are being exploited.
i am talking about true feminism. not the one that exists in the west, where certain women use it to get the best of both worlds. i wish to advocate for women's rights by making them self-sufficient and independent, and not be scared of anything. i don't want men to be put in cages, don't misunderstand. i want women to be free. period.
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a8801-physically-woman-mentally-wo-man
...
alright, i get it. we are responsible for building insecurities, and underestimating ourselves. but how can i ensure that i won't be beaten up by men for walking down the street in jeans? you live in india, i am sure you know i am not lying
After that delhi rape case, do you know how things became considerably better (unfortunately, in urban areas only, yet). Because women and men united against it. But if you would try to introduce feminism then a majority of men would oppose it and eventually, it'd fail.
Do you know a person can't even stare at you for more then 30 seconds without your consent? The rules are so strict now. Know your power, raise your voice. In urban areas, a lot of people are being arrested. They are stepping back.
In rural areas, girls are silent and that's why people are not scared of them. Even old ladies contribute in their rape too.
I suggest you to read about 'egalitarianism'. So that you could lure males to your revolution too.
So my point is, beating is big thing, a man can't even stare at you for this. You already have much power. The problem is, girls react, not proact. And sometimes, they don't even react.
What do you think that feminism would bring anything new here?
Furthermore, strictness in politics would rectify it all. They are the gods of country and they seriously don't care about women. They just show off that they are doing so much to collect votes.
It's VERY hard for an underdeveloped and conservative country to cope with the things you mentioned on your take.
i think women need to be taught to not settle, and not compromise, to know what their rights are, and feminism can help in that. when they learn that they need to fight for their rights in order to protect themselves, they will not feel helpless. i am sure egalitarianism will help in the long run, when women of all backgrounds, castes, creeds, and geographical location have the same rights as men.
so the need of the hour is feminism. because unlike the west, i don't think men are victims of discrimination. honestly, even you know how difficult it will be to educate people who live in the villages, and i don't think you will disagree when i say that it will take a really, really long time for feminism to take the ugly turn like in the west; probably decades.
i just hate it when they loosely throw around "women empowerment" in their speeches
Yes I agree COMPLETELY. But there is a thing, when feminism introduced in West, it succeeded. But gradually, feminists turned away from the right path and contributed in its failure.
Yes, it'd benefit the country but there's no guarantee about its long run.
Do you think there's any hope for feminism in our country under this system?
honestly, there is no hope. but it is the best i could think of.
it will literally take centuries for feminism to turn away from the right path in India, since our society is terribly male-dominated.
i am not generalising, but men always think they are the victims of discrimination, and they are dominating too. egalitarianism will be highly toxic if inculcated right now, and this current state will continue till god knows when.
If you are thinking about 'centuries' then there's no need to worry. The development rate is very good and in future, the status of women will certainly be better. Compare the current situation with the past one. Women were non existent in the society (outside of the house) but now they're everywhere.
okay, maybe not centuries... decades?
i just think that right now, we need feminism
I already said we need better system.
Feminism + Corrupt politics = Failure.
There are many factors which would contribute in it.
and you think egalitarianism will help?
many men don't find anything wrong in all that is going on. the corrupt system is run by men mostly. many women are meek, submissive. you think their issues will be addressed? nothing will change with egalitarianism because the system is run by misogynists
The truth is, women would keep sitted like this. Nothing is going to help, NOTHING. (At least for now). It's easy to to sit on the chair, write some articles, post facebook status with good pictures or tweet good quotes for feminism.
How do you bring feminism to the country? Is it a piece of object? No. Look at yourself, what have you done for the country? Things don't work like we read/write on articles.
Look beyond and practically.
Either be the one or just hope someone would do it for you or at least die trying.
just for the record, i am not on facebook or Twitter. i felt like voicing my opinions, since no one knows me here, and i don't feel obligated to be politically correct.
i am a volunteer at Teach India. my friend and i teach underprivileged children who are forced to work, and make sure that they come regularly, especially the girls. i know it is not a lot, but i am starting small. i have become an adult only two months back, and i was busy with my 12th board exams, but know that i am relatively free, i am going to make a difference
*now
THIS is what makes a difference. You don't need anything.
Now think if every girl started to act like this, what would happen? Do you think you'd still need feminism, egalitarianism or anything? No. Because they are just a bunch of words.
Act. <- This is what's required.
i suppose you are right. at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what we prefer to be known as, as long as there is equality and no gender discrimination.
I can only hope we remove it from our country. It's gotten ridiculous here, just disgusting.
@ComDom - best of luck, man.
@ComDom I agree, but it is not just here it is international. If we want TRUE equality sensible people have to learn to fight for it on an INTERNATIONAL scale. It will be hard, but I personally refuse to give in and let the haters win!
Globally women are very oppressed. There are many parts of the world where women truly are treated like second hand citizens. In western countries, there really isn't anything a boy can do that a girl can't. Most of what feminists fought for in the west has been accomplished, and as far as I am aware they have no clear goals that they are fighting for here in the U. S. Nothing specific anyway. In your part of the world I totally see the need for that fight, and I wasn't aware that Indian men didn't marry darker skinned Indian women. I learned a lot from your take, thanks for sharing.
they prefer not to marry darker skinned girls. they are considered less beautiful by men who may or may not be dark themselves. every other commercial advertisement on the television is a fairness creams'. it is a major insecurity here
Guessing you're from Africa or the Middle East. I have yet to see any modern "kill the patriarchy" protest in these countries mostly because third wave feminism is what happens when overweight women in the West get bored. If you want the acid attacks and beheadings to stop you're going to have to stand up for yourself, western women areore concerned about free birth control and magazine covers.
As for the British, they brought modern civilization to much of the world and many chose to reject it even though it was a much better quality of life given to them.
she is from India dude.
India? Pretty similar to the Middle East, just a different geographical location.
um not really, that's like saying Europe is pretty similar to the Middle East.
India and the Middle East are way different. The skin color of Indian people is far darker in most cases. As well, the religions there are a different mix. That doesn't include the cultural differences.
I'm not sure how third-wave feminism relates to Post-Colonial Feminism as well. They're actually quite different.
and we brought exploitation, addicion to opium and slavery... yep, civilisation...
India culturally isn't that different, keep in mind that the largest population of Muslims in the world live in India. The difference is that the Buddhists there hate Muslims and actively persecute them, unlike the Middle East and Africa
i don't see your point apart from bashing of feminists in the west.
we did accept their civilisation alomst completely, the only reason we speak English , or have a functioning railway system is because of them. of course, we were looted of our riches as well...
largest population of Muslims DON'T live in India. Islam is the second major religion after Hinduism.
although Buddhism originated in India and then propagated to the rest of the world, there are very few who practice it. so Muslims are not persecuted my Buddhists
Ok you're right, but according to wikipedia there is 180 million Indian Muslims. Which is still a lot.
yes it is a lot, but not the highest
>I come from a land where Sati (where the widow was burnt alive wtih her dead husband during his cremation) has mythological significance; where female infanticide has been practised since the dawn of civilisation; where marriage without dowry is rarer than the blue moon; where emperors have always had many wives and mistresses; where women have always been treated as liabilities... worse, commodities. Of course, things have changed, but not so much.
Newsflash: All those things were relatively common everywhere, for most of history.
14th century Europe was a shitty place.
> Ijust simply want every girl to get married to a man who couldn't care less about her skin colour, or how much she weighs,
Another newsflash: Having personal preferences for certain physical traits isn't unique to India or the 3rd world. Those preferences (particularly for weight) are literally everywhere.
^ thanks for the around the clock news updates bud, but how does this relate to the point she's trying to make?
Her point is about giving women in third world countries equal rights.
Women don't have the right to be "considered attractive despite their skin color/weight" anywhere in the world.
The prior comment was just a reminder that our supposedly egalitarian western society is but a blip in the historical record, that's all :)
it is okay to have preferences, but not when the other is deprived of. you don't know how arranged marriage works here. boy sees girl, they talk for 15 minutes, supervised; if the boy likes the girl, they get married. if he doesn't, they don't. no one asks the girl if she'd like to marry him or not. her choice makes no difference.
and i am not talking about 14th century, i am talking about 19th century.
@Take Owner
That's fine then. It's just that your original wording said that men weren't allowed to have preferences.
Because out of her whole take you just want to drive home the point that men can have preferences and boo hoo this happens everywhere. Ha. Ok
@been_waiting
pretty much, yeah. I always see the dichotomy being reacted to differently when it's guys doing it vs. girls, so I try to equalize when I see it.
I guess you're 12.
lolk
@been_waiting I find it ironic when you, as an eighteen year old, can even PRETEND like you have an iota of maturity, because it's abundantly clear you don't. Do you even think before you SPEAK in real life?
@ComDom answer honestly. are you a troll? if not, are you uneducated? because you sure do speak like one
Thanks so much for writing this myTake. It's brilliant. If there are more honest and passionate voices like yours in India - then hopefully one day, there will be physical safety and sexual freedom for the women of your country. Keep doing what you're doing!
hopefully!
Feminism isn't overrated. Which is kind of the problem. Based on studying it, I'm pretty sure that it's going to fail again, as it has nearly a dozen times, and put us back to the same old sexist shit.
We could have had a sexism-free culture a hundred years ago, but nobody who said they wanted that really wanted that.
hundreds of years ago, we were sure not a sexism-free society. it was much worse than the current state.
your stance confuses me!
Could have had means it was a possibility but didn't occur. The chance was there but not taken
why u confuses huh? We couldn't have feminism in the past right? Gender roles were more dominant then and people couldn't accept women as anything other than a mother and other roles associated with it. Male ideas of honour , pride, masculinity were even more at play then with no countering influences we have today which are breaking all boundaries. Now is more suitable than ever for feminism to win and I am sure it will.
they weren't allowed to say anything, let alone oppse the men, who called the shots at that time.
they probably would've been killed for even speaking against men, at least in India
i know.. Indian society didn't offer the place a woman deserved in past. Now people are fighting to give them the place they deserve. But any issue related to woman is hyped in India. Opportunist people try to get goodwill through feminism.
What I personally think is if something is given to you, it won't be valued. So I want women to find their own path to raise in the society.
nobody is fighting to give women the place they deserve, you are mistaken. they are definitely not hyped, they are brushed under the carpet.
that is what we are doing, trying to fight for our rights in a male-driven society
yeah i know but u know @astatine.. Feminism, the word itself is derived from female. Its not about gender equality, its about the female agenda. In paper it may be about elevating the status of women to match the status of men, but this fails so very badly in practice. Humans are greedy and selfish by nature, well most of them, so why should one just be satisfied with equality when this new-found power can grant women a much higher status than men could ever dream of achieving.
I am one hundred percent against feminism. Its not about gender equality to me. Do I care about myself more than the random woman on the street... yes. I don't place women on a pedestal. They do not deserve any form of special treatment i would say. If you cared as much about gender equality, maybe for once you'd do something to help men too. Are women backwards in every single sphere of life? Men face a lot of discrimination too
when feminism started, it was to fight for women's rights so that there could be equality. it is something else in the west now, but i call myself a feminist by the way it was defined when it started. what exists in the west is not feminism.
it is okay if you care less about a woman on the street than yourself. it is your choice. if you are not a feminist, i am okay with that, it is your choice. but don't belittle feminism and feminists.
you talk about women being put on a pedestal? we are lucky enough to be safe. why do you think women fighting for their rights is so wrong? we are not putting men in cages, we are just fighting to be free
i am not saying fighting for women right is wrong,, i am proving point that guys have equality right too. But its not like we make up fancy words and seek to empower ourselves. Mostly its other men (and women) tying us down, from which we rise through our own efforts. But no, God forbid something happens to some woman you don't even know about. Its an international story all of a sudden.
Men don't lust after you all day. Don't think too highly of yourselves. Yes men are more vocal about their sexual desires, but we have other thoughts too. Food, sports. politics, business etc. If you catch a guy looking at you, be flattered. Most guys are biologically engineered to be attracted to women. Most of the times, we just want to appreciate a beautiful member of the opposite sex. It may just be a glance, which is acceptable, or even a long stare, which is not so acceptable. If you feel uncomfortable, speak up then and there. Coming home and posting comments about how indecent men are doesn't help. Most people in your friend lists are well brought up men, who would never resort to such cheapness. Ranting about a problem does not help, combating it then and there does.
i am not male-bashing... i don't understand why you are defending men so much. i am not saying that they have to be deprived of everything and should be put in closed rooms with their eyes closed.
i am just saying that men have more rights in my country, and women should fight to get theirs too.
i am not saying that men should not have rights
You're right. Feminism IS needed.
But not the type of Feminism that is currently prominent in places like America.
Currently, "popular" Feminism is FAR too extreme and is about oppressing others so that they aren't oppressed.
We need to focus on the serious matters first.
i truly agree. i want feminism (as it used to mean when it started) to exist in India
Those who think feminism is not in India is wrong.
Gulabi gang is already there and it is much better than western feminism.
You said you are from land of satis... Well sati isn't practised anymore. Also sati was not practiced widely across india. It was peculiar to a particular state.
But there is an another video made by indian girls which is much better than my choice.
i never said that sati is practiced anymore. i have clearly said that times have changed.
gulabi gang operates only in the north. it is not helping women all over India, we need more movements like those
YOU TELL EM GIRL!!!
#femaleempowerment all the way
it may take a lot of time, but we are getting there!
Feminism is a good thing for the most part, it is the light to the patriarchy of the world. Even as a man I see this and want men and women to be treated as equals. However, there are a few women out there who call them feminists but try to turn this world into a matriarchy where men would be treated as the second class gender... and that is the type of feminism people think when you hear the word in America or Britain... that is the kind that is "overrated"
right... but i don't wish to be that. i don't want men to be electrocuted or anything. i want equal rights. that is what true feminism means
If you want men and women to be equals why do you spread hatred based on an entire gender?
I am only spreading hate to those who call themselves feminists and only want "men to be treated as women once were"
I would blame most of that bs on sandniggerism rather than say it's part of a systemic attitude of men. After all, here in America, men are civilized.
So yeah, why don't you promote American ideals of freedom and individualism over there and see if that doesn't help matters?
Bullshit.
Lol have you heard about e. g. Rush Limbaugh?
sandniggerism LOLOLOLOL
I watched 'India's Daughter' (maybe not the most well-thought-out title), and it was shocking. I can't believe they banned it in India.
I disagree that feminism is irrelevant in the West. Feminism in the sense of questioning a patriarchal culture that harms people regardless of gender is a good thing, I would say.
I think the solution is more understanding, and I regret that many (myself included) are so woefully ill-informed about what it is like to be in someone else's shoes.
Yes India and many other countries need feminism. America, the uk, Canada, Germany, France etc, does not
i can't speak on behalf of the western countries, but we sure as hell need it here
very true,
I wonder, is there a lot of feminist presence over there? Are they doing any protesting or anything like that currently?
there are activists, but they are not known as feminists. there are very few though
No one needs Feminism. They need equality, and HUMAN RIGHTS. That can be achieved WITHOUT the sexist feminists!
@genuinlysensitive And common sense, which you seem to lack. Many Feminists are for equality. Just because irrational dolts have stigmatized in illogical ways to "prove" that it is supposedly sexist does not mean all Feminists are.
I'll pass
"Feminism" ..."Femin" (feminine). A movement which says it wants equality but thinks said equality can only be achieved by focusing on woman's issues.
If women's rights are not recognized their cannot be equality. Recognizing right of women does not trample on your human rights in any way. It's not the same discussion. Feminists are for equal human rights. You don't need reproductive Rights for example as you don't have a reproductive system... This does not trample on your rights any more than a workers rights tramples on the Rights of a non worker
There are simply collectives that have different needs. This does not take away from human rights it makes it POSSIBLE.
Equal
Human rights regardless of sex creed nationality size strength skin
Collective rights specific rights equalizing very one to the point of having equal human rights precisely bc we are not born " equal". We are born unequal... Equalizing take place after birth and for our whole lives.
"Ever heard of men being acid-attacked or domestically assaulted?"
All the fucking time. In fact its getting people to take it seriously that's the bigger issue. You seem to have a problem recognizing people's individuality, male or female, and view everyone's choices as some kind of social programming. Except you of course. Finally if you want to feel safe walking alone at 11pm be happy your a women because men are the largest victims of violent crimes than women everywhere.
Yes, because women are too fucking frightened to leave the damn house at night, making it much less possible for them to get harmed.
I find many people in the US are against feminism but don't realize intersectionionalism is needed to push certain issues. They think women are just trying to find a way to act entitled but that's far from the truth. I find examples like the ones from your country are the ones that really open people's eyes
People fail to realise that true feminists actually are egalitarians, who try to bring equality in society by advocating for women's rights where they are deprived.
Thank you
It's because they're so conditioned to the norms
That sounds stupid...
First of all the main problem about feminism isn't the fact that they try to counter "bad" things but rather the fact that they don't understand what's the origin of that bad thing. They have low knowledge about their surrounding, world and even their own kind. This article is no exception to that and if people like you are seriously the ones fighting against that we are doomed.
So what is the "origin" then? Just because they may have an origin is it still socially acceptable to you?
I think he's trying to say that feminism is being reactive instead of proactive. It's attacking the branches and not the root.
I doubt he could tell you what the root is. And even if he could identify the root, the root probably goes so deep that removing it would cause social collapse.
@pool4 have you ever heard of the boiling frog analogy?
@SomeOtherGuy The root of Feminism is fallacy and cultural delusion/indoctrination. It's clear as day. What are you talking about?
who are you to tell me that i have "low knowledge" of my surrounding? you speak as if you've been living in India since birth.
how do you suggest we fight, then? care to enlighten?
Can I explain the whole problem in 1K character? No, I can't. But if you really want to know you can message me your email and I will answer you the best I can.