Trans* People and Public Toilets.

[BaileyisDarcy]

Before I say anything, let me say that I am a supporter of trans* people, I have three or four friends who identify as either ftm or genderless. I don't understand it, I probably never will, but if they want to be called 'Marcus' or 'Julian' instead of 'Holly' or 'Sarah' then I will call them that and apologise profusely everytime I accidentally say she instead of he. (not their real names, or preffered names, just saying)

I'll admit to constantly stuffing up when it comes to saying things they might take as offensive, but thankfully they know I support them and will never use their gender against them.

But. But, but, but. What I will never understand is why trans* people insist on using the guys toilets. (For ftm trans*) I'm talking highschool here too, just making that clear.

I have spoken to a cisgendered guy, who I'm pretty good friends with who is neither for or against trans* due to not understanding them in the slightest, but not really caring what someone does with their own life as long as it doesn't affect his. Well, the reason we got to talking about it is because some trans* kids at our school have started to affect his life.

Highschool boys are sensitive about their bits. At least as far as I know they are. Like highschool girls are sensitive about the size of their boobs and how much boob is showing, a guy is going to be sensitive about the thing in his pants. The guy I spoke to, let's call him Tim, was complaining that before when he went to the toilet for a wizz, he could joke around with his mates at the urinals because there were no stalls.

Then one trans* (ftm) decided he wanted to use the guys toilets, and did. Before having all of this explained to me, I wouldn't have seen a problem with somebody who identifies as male, using the boys toilets. I see the problem now. The guys were uncomfortable with having somebody in their toilets, what they see as their space, who, technically isn't a guy. I'm not saying they aren't a guy, but, parts wise, they aren't.

I would be just as uncomfortable, though slightly less so being used to having stalls, to have a (mtf) trans* using the girls bathroom. Not because they're trans*, but because beneath it all, they don't have the same bits.

So, long story short, the guys complained to teachers who then passed the message onto the principal or whoever, who banned the trans* kid from using the boys toilets.

Everything was hunky dory, until the principal recieved a letter from some LGBT community support group thing, stating that he could be sued for not letting, who we're going to call Sam, use the boys toilets.

And we're back to the beginning. The guys continued to complain. And you can't blame them! They have, who they don't see as a guy (probably especially because he doesn't pass very well, no offense to him but he doesn't) coming in to their toilets and using them, while the guys are standing at the urinals tryign to chat and use their own space that really shouldn't have been invaded in the first place.

Because of the guys still complaining, and the principal not being able to rectify the problem properly, he had stalls put up around the urinals. I don't think he relaised he only made things worse. The guys liked talking to each other while they pissed, it was Sam being in their toilets that they didn't like.

The point I'm trying to make, is why can't trans* people simply use the unisex toilets until they have the bits that would allow them to be more accepted in the toilets of their choice? The trans* people I'm friends with do that, because they don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, and they're not too comfortable themselves with walking into a place where what they don't have is kind of waved in their faces.

I understand it seems a bit transphobic to ask this, but I'm not trying to be. I'm asking, simply for the peace of mind of the majority, and it's actually not that difficult to find a unisex toilet. My school has two.

If somebody asked me to use the unisex toilets because I'm gay, I would feel a little put out, but I would comply. Because I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. (And it would be highly hypocritical if I did make a big deal out of it.)

What is your opinion on this?

[Anonymous]

I'm a trans man and I want to use the guys toilets because girls make me uncomfortable. I don't want them to see 'my bits', there's cracks in stalls, but if guys do I couldn't give two fucks and I also don't give two fucks if I see a guys part but I do give a whole lot of fucks about seeing a girls, I don't want to see it.
Also girls are very touchy and way too personal even in the bathroom and this makes going to the bathroom far more uncomfortable than it needs to be.
What if people told you you had to use the guy's bathroom and not the girls? I'm assuming you won't be happy about that, that's how we feel.
We aren't invading male space, we are male, we think male, we act male, we just look male to you. And going to the girl's bathroom is an invasion of our personal space, it puts us in boxes that we are not.
Are there unisex toilets at your school? If that's the case, then yea that's fine, I'd use that.
I'm coming from a place where there aren't any unisex toilets and that's pretty much why I went off on that rant.

[BaileyisDarcy]

We have two unisex toilets at my school, one for the students, and one for the teachers that students can use if they're trans* and the other one's taken.

If you don't have a unisex toilet anywhere around then that's fine, you use the toilet you feel most comfortable in, but I'm talking for high-school or secondary school (whatever you want to call it) where people are just a little more self conscious than adults. The guys simply aren't comfortable with having who they see as a girl in their space.

I don't want anyone to be uncomfortable, if you don't like being in the girls toilets then don't use it. If there isn't a unisex bathroom anywhere convenient then by all means use the toilet you're most comfortable in. This is really just for those with the alternative.

I personally don't think of it as you invading their space, that's how they see it. Because they don't understand and unless it's a close friend who is trans* they don't care to understand.

[Anonymous]

I'm a straight cis male, so I can't really identify with trans* people that much, though I've got nothing against them doing what they need to to be more content with who they are. Anyway I get what you're saying, I'll really need to think about this, I'm not sure I have an opinion just yet.

I imagine girls could feel especially uncomfortable/threatened if they had trans* lesbian sharing they're toilets, I mean she'd (conceivably) be attracted to them and would (potentially) have the size and strength of a man, so I could certainly understand girls being uncomfortable with that.

I can't say I've ever been into talking at the urinals... I prefer when there's a bit of a divider between basin urinals rather than just a wall with everyone standing together. I don't think I'd be bothered more by a trans* guy seeing me that a cis guy, if anything it'd bother me less.