I completely agree. I have noticed that on all these body positive things it is almost always still beautiful people with perfect skin and often very much photoshopped. I do believe though that the concept of ugliness is VERY subjective but I do think these movements are still flawed simply due to the fact that they do also edit their things highly and everyone looks perfect...
I don't know... I just think people should figure out what is offensive to themselves alone and stop trying to be part of some group offended party. Like "hi we're all ugly, let's make a club!" "Great idea!" ... Whhhhhyyyy do people fight over who gets to be considered really ugly? "You just say that because you are only fake ugly!" What do you win if everyone agrees, "you're right you are the only truly ugly person in the world. You get max ugly points."
It'll always be hypocritical because beauty sells. Only models I've seen are beautiful and/or unique looking. That's just what people advertise what they see attractive to sell a product or some commercial of some kind. It's not fair and it definitely has affected me and a lot of other people who don't look like the "pretty people" on the tv/magazines. Celebrities are "high" standard. It's just how it is
I personnaly find nothing wrong with her, but I doubt she is conventionally attractive. She is fat, but not "sexy fat" like the society would want her to be to be accepted as attractive.
I don’t understand the point of body positivity really.
If you define yourself as desiring to be attractive and you aren’t then you need to do something to look attractive.
Otherwise, if you are an outstanding award winning scientist and you happen to be obese who fucking cares, you’re body isn’t making you an outstanding scientist so quit worrying about it and Be an outstanding scientist and don’t insist to me I should accept looking at your fat ass in a bikini cuz I don’t wanna see it.
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Yes I agree with You. It’s not for really ugly people. All in all it’s business. They need to sell it. Some things are easier to work with and can give spectacular results and some shock value but it’s not possible with most of truly ugly. This is business and there is no place for truly ugly there. So it’s hypocritical yes
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(18-24)
+1 y
I think what ur saying is partially true. But I think we should just throw the movement aside. It's on the right track with including women of different body types, now we just have to work harder to make it include people that don't look conventionally pretty.
Definitely. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes it seems it's OK for a girl to be chubby, or called a BBW, among other things. Then if a guy is overweight, then he's considered gross and a slob. I'm not fat myself, so I'm not trying to talk about things that have happened to me or anything. I'm just pointing out hypocrisy that I've seen on dating sites while reading through profiles as well as lot of Q&As on here.
I myself don't feel like it's ok for women to be overweight, some men like fat girls but some women like fat guys too. I think the whole bbw thing only exists to make fat women feel better about themselves whereas there doesn't need to be anything like that for men because men don't put some much focus on their looks or base their self worth on their looks the way women tend to.
@cflr0227, I require evidence. Show examples of conventionally attractive, fit and healthy women who love fat men WHO ARE NOT WEALTHY. Take all the time you need.
@cflr0227 For me, everyone is attractive to someone. I'm not attracted to larger females and actually tend to be more attracted to females who are short, skinny, and flat. Just my type really and nothing against bigger girls, just not my type. I think a lot of guys do care about their looks, back when I was in my mid twenties to late twenties after my divorce I worked out often and was ripped. But I wasn't happy, I worked out because that's what I thought women wanted. I don't do hookups, casual sex, friends with benefits or anything like that. I've learned over time that I'm going to do what makes me happy, I have an average body type and I'm cool with that. If someone doesn't like me, I don't care anymore. I'm a former chef and baker, a lover of dogs, and I already know what I'm going to do for the rest of my life and if I find someone to join, then cool. I feel old, when I tell people that I don't care what people think of me and I don't even use social media aside from here.
I could take time to think of some but any pics of people you know like celebrities would be wealthy, but off the top of my head me, i have dated many over weight guys and I no self am small in good shape and not being cocky but a pretty attractive girl, my mom's good friend is absolutely georgous and her ex husband was a very very overweight man as well. It seems to me and an absolutely asinine statement to say that no attractive thin women would want an overweight man, i mean how out of all the people in the world you are trying to tell me, an attractive in shape woman that had dated many overweight men, that there is no women out there that don't require a man to be in good shape? How much more ridiculous a statement can be made. My whole point was that bbw should not exist and it only does because fat women need the confidence boost and fat men dont because they aren't hard wired to believe they are only worthy because of their looks.
I can't even make myself read all of that, so this reaction is viceral.
Body positivity is the result of people wanting to also feel special or purposeful. People that make choices that don't equal that result and would have to do things they don't want to do (like diet and exercise) in order to be special and purposeful are simply feeling inept.
The fox and the grapes basically. Aesop covered all this shit so long ago... people just are dumb now.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
It kinda is. I mean all these morbidly obese "models" telling young girls it's okay to be fat is just stupid. Yes you should love who you are, but it you are overweight you should get help, not just accept it. Being healthy can improve your life in so many ways, and it really is horrible that these people are telling impressionable young girls that it's okay to be fat.
Yeah depends how big you're talking, a bit bigger is really really sexy, much sexier than skinny... But unhealthy is like unhealthy so like, be healthy everyone's different some bigger girls are still healthy some aren't just like some girls who are skinny are unhealthy and need to gain weight
Yeah it's all liberal feel-good bullshit. It's like passing out "participation trophys" to kids on the team that absolutely no effort or contribution to the team that year.
@Wally48 "Liberal" means nothing. If someone is incorrect or correct about something, labels like that, or other political labels, do not further or hinder their actual argument. Either someone uses logic, reason, and evidence, or they don't. Viewpoints should be judged on their own merits.
@sparklefairy A bit bigger is not, not really sexy, and unsexy in general compared to skinny/slim. I can't pick up and give a piggyback ride through the park to a chubby girl who weighs thirty pounds more than she should. Don't know what you think the word "sexy" means.
I think you make a really good point and yeah it is hypocritical to a point but at the same time it can only take so many steps at a time? Theyre trying to enforce change. but yeah just make your voice heard bc that is something that really does need to be talked about way more nd definitely changed. :( <3
I think with the message of “body positivity” and then excluding certain body types from the picture, with the message... people will just dismiss it as PC/social engineering agenda, even if they align with its efforts... you can’t promote acceptance of diversity and exclude groups in the message at the same time, hypocritical and fake
I agree. I think the movement is overusing the word beautiful because let's be honest, not everyone is beautiful. I'm not going to lie and say some girl with a major defect is physically beautiful. The whole movement only perpetuates the belief that physical beauty is the most important thing to a person, as if personality didn't matter at all.
To be fair they advertised some less conventional pretty looks for the media, as it's not only thin girls there, also guys tend to naturally care more about the opposite sex looks.
@Berethor Do they? I question your assertion because in my therapy reception I meet a lot of people and even I was somewhat surprised to learn how often, contrary to the common perception, men like women actually care about a lot more than what meets the eye. For whatever it is worth, men emphasize a game of sorts where ' looks are the most important ', but you need to not only examine real life circumstances and realize this rarely is so. In fact I would say that while looks might be one reason some men and women approach, it is the other traits like body language, humor, confidence etc. that keeps someone around.
Anyway this is a bit off topic. Back to the movement itself.
@BETAOPTICS as far as I know men tend to not give much shit about body language and confidence, in fact almost not one expect women to be confident anyway. A humor? maybe a little. It's not a game, men fully believe that men tend to care more about looks then women, and it's logical, well men tend to be more logical. It's not men that some men don't care about personality, but it's mostly about if a woman is not a bitch, then anything else. Women tend to care more about how they look for a reason. If anything it's a usually game/lie if a man don't admit to care quite a lot about woman's looks.
It is exactly what you said “people who are insecure” hyping each other up. No one can tolerate any negative emotions now-a-days so rather than trying to improve yourself, everyone just normalizes flaws, both ones that truly don’t matter and ones that SHOULD be seen as a problem
It is great to feel good about your body. When your attitude is positive it keeps your mind and body healthy, on the other hand, it is never a good thing to be body positive when you are obese or outrageously overweight, unhealthy and suffering. That's not a body image thing, it's a health risk. Important to know the two and do what needs to be done to take care of yourself.
But attractiveness is so subjective... It's so individualized... I understand that there is an "industry standard" but at least all the people I know don't go by that.
Let's be honest not every body is beautiful but only the unhealthy one is classified as ugly. If ur naturally chubby u go girl but if u on ur couch all day I ain't gonna call u pretty to make u happy
Bodies who naturally store more fat can't go thinner unless they starve themselves. As long as they eat, they're going to store more fat than the average person. They're healthy like everyone who eat healthy. Then you have people who have thyroid dysfunctions that fucks up their metabolism and they're more likely to become obese no matter What they do. Believe it not all fat people are just lazies on a couch.
“We know from research that some genetic predisposition increases your risk to be overweight and obese, but it can be overcome by lifestyle,” says Zhaoping Li, MD, PhD, director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the University of California, Los Angeles. “Genetics load the gun, environment pulls the trigger.”
@SkittleMayn my mom has a rare disease in which in order to be able to survive she must take a pill every 2 hours. That pill increases her weight, I'm a bit tired atm so I won't go into details however if you are interested. Feel free to dm me and you can learn more, but by the end of each month any weight lost during that month will be put back on her so she constantly has to work out but it will NEVER change her aesthetic appearance. The point is tho she's healthy.
Ok I am gonna end trying to assure you that there are exceptions, as it seems you're so deeply rooted in your ideas that you can't seem to fathom any other viewpoint. I'd like to point out you aren't willing to understand where I am coming from so therefore I think the conversation has finished.
@SidKnee Suit yourself. Sure, there are exceptions — however I never claimed there aren't. At least in terms of "natural" obesity. There is nothing natural about having a disease.
That poster is satire, it has to be. But I agree the movement is hypocritical.
I agree you should feel comfortable with how you look as long as you're relatively healthy. But the body positive movement often promotes slutty behavior. I can't condone that. Also it seems to only focus certain groups of women and men and make fun of others.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
I'm not sure if it's hypocritical, but it is delusional and stupid. Not everyone is hot. Some people are naturally hot and some people get there from hard work. The hottest people out there probably started hot and then worked hard to be even hotter. No different from athletic excellence or how people get really smart. You DON'T get there by sitting on your fat ass being an entitled little bitch. That's the sad thing about all the nonsense around body positivity.
4
0 Reply
Anonymous
(18-24)
+1 y
I think of it more as a public pleasing thing. You don't want ugly figures in your face everyday, right? You don't want to see a giant poster of someone who is physically unattractive. It's a way to bring awareness that whatever you look like, it's okay. But it won't be a seller if they actually put ugly people. You can't blame it on them.
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I completely agree. I have noticed that on all these body positive things it is almost always still beautiful people with perfect skin and often very much photoshopped. I do believe though that the concept of ugliness is VERY subjective but I do think these movements are still flawed simply due to the fact that they do also edit their things highly and everyone looks perfect...
I don't know... I just think people should figure out what is offensive to themselves alone and stop trying to be part of some group offended party. Like "hi we're all ugly, let's make a club!" "Great idea!" ... Whhhhhyyyy do people fight over who gets to be considered really ugly? "You just say that because you are only fake ugly!" What do you win if everyone agrees, "you're right you are the only truly ugly person in the world. You get max ugly points."
It'll always be hypocritical because beauty sells. Only models I've seen are beautiful and/or unique looking. That's just what people advertise what they see attractive to sell a product or some commercial of some kind. It's not fair and it definitely has affected me and a lot of other people who don't look like the "pretty people" on the tv/magazines. Celebrities are "high" standard. It's just how it is
Yes, I believe it is. And obviously money hungry as well, since they care more about making a buck/being in the spotlight than helping actual people.
I dunno. . . is Jazzy conventionally beautiful? I would love your opinion on this.
s.hdnux.com/photos/61/61/64/13049106/4/920x920.jpg
I personnaly find nothing wrong with her, but I doubt she is conventionally attractive. She is fat, but not "sexy fat" like the society would want her to be to be accepted as attractive.
Well, she is how I learned about the body positive movement. So I don't think I have ever had this warped view of what it meant.
media.allure.com/.../jazzy-body-positive.jpg
At first it was about women like her. Then morbidly obese people came in, then conventionally attractive people.
I don’t understand the point of body positivity really.
If you define yourself as desiring to be attractive and you aren’t then you need to do something to look attractive.
Otherwise, if you are an outstanding award winning scientist and you happen to be obese who fucking cares, you’re body isn’t making you an outstanding scientist so quit worrying about it and Be an outstanding scientist and don’t insist to me I should accept looking at your fat ass in a bikini cuz I don’t wanna see it.
Yes I agree with You. It’s not for really ugly people. All in all it’s business. They need to sell it. Some things are easier to work with and can give spectacular results and some shock value but it’s not possible with most of truly ugly. This is business and there is no place for truly ugly there. So it’s hypocritical yes
I think what ur saying is partially true. But I think we should just throw the movement aside. It's on the right track with including women of different body types, now we just have to work harder to make it include people that don't look conventionally pretty.
Definitely.
Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes it seems it's OK for a girl to be chubby, or called a BBW, among other things.
Then if a guy is overweight, then he's considered gross and a slob.
I'm not fat myself, so I'm not trying to talk about things that have happened to me or anything.
I'm just pointing out hypocrisy that I've seen on dating sites while reading through profiles as well as lot of Q&As on here.
I myself don't feel like it's ok for women to be overweight, some men like fat girls but some women like fat guys too. I think the whole bbw thing only exists to make fat women feel better about themselves whereas there doesn't need to be anything like that for men because men don't put some much focus on their looks or base their self worth on their looks the way women tend to.
@cflr0227, I require evidence.
Show examples of conventionally attractive, fit and healthy women who love fat men WHO ARE NOT WEALTHY. Take all the time you need.
@cflr0227 For me, everyone is attractive to someone. I'm not attracted to larger females and actually tend to be more attracted to females who are short, skinny, and flat. Just my type really and nothing against bigger girls, just not my type.
I think a lot of guys do care about their looks, back when I was in my mid twenties to late twenties after my divorce I worked out often and was ripped. But I wasn't happy, I worked out because that's what I thought women wanted.
I don't do hookups, casual sex, friends with benefits or anything like that.
I've learned over time that I'm going to do what makes me happy, I have an average body type and I'm cool with that. If someone doesn't like me, I don't care anymore.
I'm a former chef and baker, a lover of dogs, and I already know what I'm going to do for the rest of my life and if I find someone to join, then cool.
I feel old, when I tell people that I don't care what people think of me and I don't even use social media aside from here.
I could take time to think of some but any pics of people you know like celebrities would be wealthy, but off the top of my head me, i have dated many over weight guys and I no self am small in good shape and not being cocky but a pretty attractive girl, my mom's good friend is absolutely georgous and her ex husband was a very very overweight man as well. It seems to me and an absolutely asinine statement to say that no attractive thin women would want an overweight man, i mean how out of all the people in the world you are trying to tell me, an attractive in shape woman that had dated many overweight men, that there is no women out there that don't require a man to be in good shape? How much more ridiculous a statement can be made. My whole point was that bbw should not exist and it only does because fat women need the confidence boost and fat men dont because they aren't hard wired to believe they are only worthy because of their looks.
I can't even make myself read all of that, so this reaction is viceral.
Body positivity is the result of people wanting to also feel special or purposeful. People that make choices that don't equal that result and would have to do things they don't want to do (like diet and exercise) in order to be special and purposeful are simply feeling inept.
The fox and the grapes basically. Aesop covered all this shit so long ago... people just are dumb now.
It kinda is. I mean all these morbidly obese "models" telling young girls it's okay to be fat is just stupid. Yes you should love who you are, but it you are overweight you should get help, not just accept it. Being healthy can improve your life in so many ways, and it really is horrible that these people are telling impressionable young girls that it's okay to be fat.
Yeah depends how big you're talking, a bit bigger is really really sexy, much sexier than skinny... But unhealthy is like unhealthy so like, be healthy everyone's different some bigger girls are still healthy some aren't just like some girls who are skinny are unhealthy and need to gain weight
Well said.
Yeah it's all liberal feel-good bullshit. It's like passing out "participation trophys" to kids on the team that absolutely no effort or contribution to the team that year.
*made
@Wally48 "Liberal" means nothing. If someone is incorrect or correct about something, labels like that, or other political labels, do not further or hinder their actual argument. Either someone uses logic, reason, and evidence, or they don't. Viewpoints should be judged on their own merits.
@sparklefairy A bit bigger is not, not really sexy, and unsexy in general compared to skinny/slim. I can't pick up and give a piggyback ride through the park to a chubby girl who weighs thirty pounds more than she should. Don't know what you think the word "sexy" means.
I think you make a really good point and yeah it is hypocritical to a point but at the same time it can only take so many steps at a time? Theyre trying to enforce change. but yeah just make your voice heard bc that is something that really does need to be talked about way more nd definitely changed. :( <3
I think with the message of “body positivity” and then excluding certain body types from the picture, with the message... people will just dismiss it as PC/social engineering agenda, even if they align with its efforts... you can’t promote acceptance of diversity and exclude groups in the message at the same time, hypocritical and fake
I agree. I think the movement is overusing the word beautiful because let's be honest, not everyone is beautiful. I'm not going to lie and say some girl with a major defect is physically beautiful.
The whole movement only perpetuates the belief that physical beauty is the most important thing to a person, as if personality didn't matter at all.
To be fair they advertised some less conventional pretty looks for the media, as it's not only thin girls there, also guys tend to naturally care more about the opposite sex looks.
@Berethor Do they? I question your assertion because in my therapy reception I meet a lot of people and even I was somewhat surprised to learn how often, contrary to the common perception, men like women actually care about a lot more than what meets the eye. For whatever it is worth, men emphasize a game of sorts where ' looks are the most important ', but you need to not only examine real life circumstances and realize this rarely is so. In fact I would say that while looks might be one reason some men and women approach, it is the other traits like body language, humor, confidence etc. that keeps someone around.
Anyway this is a bit off topic. Back to the movement itself.
@BETAOPTICS as far as I know men tend to not give much shit about body language and confidence, in fact almost not one expect women to be confident anyway. A humor? maybe a little. It's not a game, men fully believe that men tend to care more about looks then women, and it's logical, well men tend to be more logical. It's not men that some men don't care about personality, but it's mostly about if a woman is not a bitch, then anything else. Women tend to care more about how they look for a reason. If anything it's a usually game/lie if a man don't admit to care quite a lot about woman's looks.
It is exactly what you said “people who are insecure” hyping each other up. No one can tolerate any negative emotions now-a-days so rather than trying to improve yourself, everyone just normalizes flaws, both ones that truly don’t matter and ones that SHOULD be seen as a problem
It is great to feel good about your body. When your attitude is positive it keeps your mind and body healthy, on the other hand, it is never a good thing to be body positive when you are obese or outrageously overweight, unhealthy and suffering. That's not a body image thing, it's a health risk. Important to know the two and do what needs to be done to take care of yourself.
I was thinking of people who are healthy and yet non conventionally attractive. But I get your point.
Explain non conventional attraction again.
I mean by that, people who aren't attractive based on society's standards.
But attractiveness is so subjective... It's so individualized... I understand that there is an "industry standard" but at least all the people I know don't go by that.
A lot of people don't go by that but the majority do, that's why it's the standards of society.
@Cumulus it's the other way around, society is built on what most it's people prefer.
Let's be honest not every body is beautiful but only the unhealthy one is classified as ugly. If ur naturally chubby u go girl but if u on ur couch all day I ain't gonna call u pretty to make u happy
No one is "naturally chubby".
Actually yes some people are born with a little more fat depends on your metabolism and ur bone size and all that
They're born with a little more fat that they can burn off.
U thick its just gonna burn off its hard work and not everyone is willing to change the body they were born with
If it requires will that means it is a choice. No one HAS to be chubby.
I guess
Bodies who naturally store more fat can't go thinner unless they starve themselves. As long as they eat, they're going to store more fat than the average person. They're healthy like everyone who eat healthy. Then you have people who have thyroid dysfunctions that fucks up their metabolism and they're more likely to become obese no matter What they do. Believe it not all fat people are just lazies on a couch.
“We know from research that some genetic predisposition increases your risk to be overweight and obese, but it can be overcome by lifestyle,” says Zhaoping Li, MD, PhD, director of the Center for Human Nutrition at the University of California, Los Angeles. “Genetics load the gun, environment pulls the trigger.”
Cool but If its in your blood its natural but as I said gaining weight by not watching your diet isn't
@SkittleMayn my mom has a rare disease in which in order to be able to survive she must take a pill every 2 hours. That pill increases her weight, I'm a bit tired atm so I won't go into details however if you are interested. Feel free to dm me and you can learn more, but by the end of each month any weight lost during that month will be put back on her so she constantly has to work out but it will NEVER change her aesthetic appearance. The point is tho she's healthy.
@SidKnee People with obesity disorders are very scarce — and they certainly are not natural.
Do you even know what disease I am talking about or no?
@SidKnee No, but it doesn't matter.
Ok I am gonna end trying to assure you that there are exceptions, as it seems you're so deeply rooted in your ideas that you can't seem to fathom any other viewpoint. I'd like to point out you aren't willing to understand where I am coming from so therefore I think the conversation has finished.
@SidKnee Suit yourself. Sure, there are exceptions — however I never claimed there aren't. At least in terms of "natural" obesity. There is nothing natural about having a disease.
That poster is satire, it has to be. But I agree the movement is hypocritical.
I agree you should feel comfortable with how you look as long as you're relatively healthy. But the body positive movement often promotes slutty behavior. I can't condone that. Also it seems to only focus certain groups of women and men and make fun of others.
I'm not sure if it's hypocritical, but it is delusional and stupid. Not everyone is hot. Some people are naturally hot and some people get there from hard work. The hottest people out there probably started hot and then worked hard to be even hotter. No different from athletic excellence or how people get really smart. You DON'T get there by sitting on your fat ass being an entitled little bitch. That's the sad thing about all the nonsense around body positivity.
I think of it more as a public pleasing thing. You don't want ugly figures in your face everyday, right? You don't want to see a giant poster of someone who is physically unattractive. It's a way to bring awareness that whatever you look like, it's okay. But it won't be a seller if they actually put ugly people. You can't blame it on them.
Yes if they put an posters of people who are too ugly, it likely lead to their bankrupt.